Author Topic: Cleveland: Flats East Bank  (Read 1572407 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline KJP

  • Premium Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37117
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
    • All Aboard Ohio
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #700 on: February 12, 2007, 09:46:09 PM »
I got your waterfront vision right here... Notice how a number of the waterfront buildings step down toward the park. One can tell a lot of thought went into the building code, or Toronto's planning commission took a lot of care in design review or nearly all of the developers are of the same mind when it comes to carefully designing some very visible buildings.

"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Offline musky

  • SPRAWL KILLS !!!
  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 3508
  • Where there is no vision, the people perish.
    • Cleveland vs. The World
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #701 on: February 13, 2007, 08:25:16 AM »
^ That's amazing. It almost looks like it could be lifted and placed directly on top of Burke and the bluffs to the south.
As for the silo conversion, one only needs to look at Quaker Square to see how it has been done in the past. But I wonder if only having the two would be out of place.




Online w28th

  • 1450'-Willis Tower
  • *********
  • Posts: 1682
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #702 on: February 13, 2007, 09:11:04 AM »
I think the "silo" building in May Day's photos was executed by the Dutch firm MVRDV, the same firm that was in consideration for the CIA addition to the Ford Plant.  Good stuff.
"When you stand at the corner of Euclid Avenue and East Ninth Street in Cleveland, you stand at one of the busiest corners in the world -- and in the heart of a shopping district known far and wide for its many fine shops."

Online surfohio

  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 6183
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #703 on: February 13, 2007, 12:04:32 PM »
KJP Toronto looks incredible. I'm hoping to make it out there for their film festival....I'm very impressed with their plans to re-establish beaches and wetlands. Hopefully we in Cleveland will be doing that as well someday.

Of course Musky, the former Hilton in Akron!!!

MayDay, what about that huge, wooden, structure thing near Stonebridge, on the west bank of the river? They are renovating buildings like that in Baltimore.


Online MorningTheft

  • 468'-Scripps Center
  • ***
  • Posts: 273
  • In my day we didn't need a cell phone to get some.

Online MayDay

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6926
  • The HBIC from the CLE
    • Cleveland Skyscrapers
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #705 on: February 13, 2007, 01:16:02 PM »
I loved that group back in the day.

Offline Map Boy

  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 3210
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #706 on: February 13, 2007, 01:52:12 PM »
yes, Toronto looks amazing [sigh]

Offline Map Boy

  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 3210
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #707 on: February 23, 2007, 10:09:50 AM »
That Copenhagen waterfront is so "untimate."

Any signs of demo?  It's the end of the month!

Offline musky

  • SPRAWL KILLS !!!
  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 3508
  • Where there is no vision, the people perish.
    • Cleveland vs. The World
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #708 on: February 23, 2007, 11:39:31 AM »
I drove by today.
Nothing but the wind.

Saw this. So maybe really, really soon.

Quote
Port Authority Prevails in Taxpayer Lawsuit
Posted: 2/22/2007

CLEVELAND - Common Pleas Judge Peter J. Corrigan ruled in favor of the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority, dismissing a taxpayer lawsuit to stop the acquisition of properties along the East Bank of the Flats.

Cynthia Roether filed a lawsuit against the Port Authority, alleging that the Port Authority abused its powers by filing eminent domain suits to acquire properties necessary for the $230 million-plus redevelopment of the east bank of the Flats.

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:57:26 AM by MayDay »

Offline Map Boy

  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 3210
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #709 on: February 23, 2007, 01:28:48 PM »
So, this is one of the eminent domain hearings, but wasn't the demo of wolstein-owned properties supposed to start recently?  I would understand if the weather threw them off a week or so...

Offline 3231

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4268
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #710 on: February 23, 2007, 01:44:51 PM »
^no, this is separate. The case was dismissed because she failed to state a claim. She argued that the Port's actions are outside of its authority. The law obviously states that the Port does have this authority. Therefore, the case is dismissed before things really heated up in the court room. I'm not sure how this particular case went down, but it could happen like this: plaintiff opens hearings by presenting its claim. Defense responds by motioning to have case dismissed because plaintiff has no legal leg to stand on. Or, this could have happened even before court proceedings had begun.

I'm sure that the landowners will argue the same thing as well as the lady, but the Port may be able to have that claim removed because it has already been decided. Still, the landowners would have some other claims to make. But this probably will shorten the landowners trial a little.

Offline Mov2Ohio

  • 1450'-Willis Tower
  • *********
  • Posts: 1570
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #711 on: February 28, 2007, 07:53:50 PM »
East bank of the Flats may soon be flattened
Posted by Tom Breckenridge February 28, 2007 19:13PM
Categories: Metro
Much of the Flats east bank along Old River Road -- one-time party central for downtown and the region -- could be flattened soon.

The city has issued demolition permits for eight properties, allowing wrecking crews for developer Scott Wolstein to descend on the familiar-but-vacant properties south of Old River Road, including the former Joe's Crab Shack, Fado Irish Pub, the Beach Club and Dick's Last Resort.

More at http://blog.cleveland.com/earlyedition/2007/02/east_bank_of_the_flats_may_soo.html
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:57:54 AM by MayDay »
Without change, progress is impossible.

Offline cle2032

  • 574'-Carew Tower
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #712 on: February 28, 2007, 08:00:41 PM »
Can we demolish these owners too?  Honestly, push them into the river! :shoot:
Vive la Cleveland!

Offline musky

  • SPRAWL KILLS !!!
  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 3508
  • Where there is no vision, the people perish.
    • Cleveland vs. The World
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #713 on: February 28, 2007, 08:08:03 PM »
So what are the rest of the properties?
I count five in this article. I'm guessing most of the properties along the river except for the old Basement (whatever it is called now).

Quote

To protect existing businesses, the city is requiring Wolstein's demolition crews to erect an 8-foot-high fence along Old River

Is this going to be a world class fence?


Offline jamiec

  • 629'-Rhodes State Tower
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #714 on: February 28, 2007, 08:16:50 PM »
Quote
Holdout property owners also fear demolition will kill businesses that remain in the area, such as Heaven & Earth night club and Larry Flynt's Hustler strip club, north of Old River.

This is the most unintentionally hilarious line ever.

Offline KJP

  • Premium Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37117
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
    • All Aboard Ohio
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #715 on: February 28, 2007, 09:19:34 PM »
It certainly ranks right up there. Trailing right behind it is:

Quote
Demolition would leave a "destitute, barren piece of land, and that has a substantial, negative impact on how the jury views the land value" of nearby properties, Phillips said.

Um, it already is a destitute, barren piece of land. Apparently Phillips hasn't been to the Flats East Bank in about 10 years. Ranking a close third in the "Brain's not connected to the mouth" category is this one:

Quote
Lawyer Gerald Phillips charged Wednesday that Wolstein wants to tear his buildings down to lower the value of holdout properties.

I think Wolstein wants to tear down the buildings on the land he owns because I heard a rumor that he supposedly wants to build something else where they stand. I think that's how the rumor went...
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 09:20:02 PM by KJP »
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Offline Matches

  • God of skinny punks.
  • 574'-Carew Tower
  • ****
  • Posts: 405
  • Eloquently sarcastic
    • Benander Games / Sports Data
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #716 on: February 28, 2007, 10:12:13 PM »
Quote


Is this going to be a world class fence?



Let me tell you, until the buildings actually go up, the absolute best thing that the Avenue District Project has done is be the genesis of the "World Class Signage/Fencing" bit, which honestly gets me giggling every time.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 10:12:27 PM by Matches »
"The urban core is a net importer of young adults and a net exporter of old adults. That's the antithesis of a dying city."

Offline musky

  • SPRAWL KILLS !!!
  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 3508
  • Where there is no vision, the people perish.
    • Cleveland vs. The World
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #717 on: March 01, 2007, 09:28:55 AM »
So what are the rest of the properties?
I count five in this article. I'm guessing most of the properties along the river except for the old Basement (whatever it is called now).

Quote

To protect existing businesses, the city is requiring Wolstein's demolition crews to erect an 8-foot-high fence along Old River

Is this going to be a world class fence?




PD had a map with the 8 properties on it.
Doesn't look like Fagan's is on the list yet. I'm surprised it hasn't been burned down yet.


Offline sky

  • 468'-Scripps Center
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #718 on: March 01, 2007, 09:57:54 AM »
It's too bad that they can't keep Amsterdam up.  That building is really nice!

Offline Mov2Ohio

  • 1450'-Willis Tower
  • *********
  • Posts: 1570
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #719 on: March 01, 2007, 01:54:03 PM »
So when will we be seeing steel frames rising? Late summer, fall, next spring?
Without change, progress is impossible.

Offline KJP

  • Premium Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37117
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
    • All Aboard Ohio
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #720 on: March 01, 2007, 02:01:28 PM »
Fagan's is owned by Russ Khouri and Jim Kassouf (as are the parking lots north of Front). They are among those fighting the port authority.
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Offline 3231

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4268
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #721 on: March 01, 2007, 02:02:28 PM »
If and when the ED hearings come out in favor of Wolstein, I've heard that they need to do extensive sewer work ( up to a year??) before they can do any construction in the area.

Offline KJP

  • Premium Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37117
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
    • All Aboard Ohio
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #722 on: March 01, 2007, 02:03:33 PM »
Yep, including construction of a sewage pumping station to get the crap out of the valley.
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Online MayDay

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6926
  • The HBIC from the CLE
    • Cleveland Skyscrapers
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #723 on: March 01, 2007, 02:03:57 PM »
"Fagan's is owned by Russ Khouri and Jim Kassouf (as are the parking lots north of Front). They are among those fighting the port authority."

The same people who wanted to put a Microtel on the Davenport Bluffs a few years ago?

Offline KJP

  • Premium Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37117
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
    • All Aboard Ohio
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #724 on: March 01, 2007, 02:04:27 PM »
The same!
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Online w28th

  • 1450'-Willis Tower
  • *********
  • Posts: 1682
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #725 on: March 01, 2007, 02:51:21 PM »
Kassauff is certainly on the list of Clevelanders who are a barrier to progress.  Isn't he responsible for the development for the FBI building and Channel 3?  What a piece of S**t.
"When you stand at the corner of Euclid Avenue and East Ninth Street in Cleveland, you stand at one of the busiest corners in the world -- and in the heart of a shopping district known far and wide for its many fine shops."

Offline Robclevoh

  • 279'-First Energy Center
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • Cleveland's Life
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #726 on: March 01, 2007, 03:45:03 PM »
CLEVELAND -- A wrecking crew took down Joe's Crab Shack in the flats today.


http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=63817

Offline musky

  • SPRAWL KILLS !!!
  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 3508
  • Where there is no vision, the people perish.
    • Cleveland vs. The World
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #727 on: March 01, 2007, 06:57:53 PM »
Whoo Hooo!


Offline jamiec

  • 629'-Rhodes State Tower
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #728 on: March 01, 2007, 07:02:40 PM »
^^ haha, that's hilarious

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 5086
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #729 on: March 01, 2007, 07:53:49 PM »
Keep knocking'em down!!
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood. " -- Daniel Burnham

Online audidave

  • 771'-Terminal Tower
  • *******
  • Posts: 1109
  • Akron skyline
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #730 on: March 01, 2007, 11:17:54 PM »
So wouldn't this be kind of a shot being fired over Kassouf's bow with Wolstein knocking down the building closest to Fagans?   I don't have any sympathy for owners that are just sitting on the properties not using them.  I realize I'm in the minority about the other owners that are running businesses down there that he shouldn't be allowed to rip down the whole East Bank until everything is settled.   

 I think it would be cool if he'd knock down only half of the East Bank and keep the better buildings to keep some of the feel of the old flats.  I realize he wants a clean slate to deal with as I think all developers seem to.  I'll personally be a little sad when he knocks down Fado's and Dick's last resort.. good memories and decent enough buildings...

Offline Vulpster03

  • 574'-Carew Tower
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #731 on: March 02, 2007, 02:51:21 AM »
^ Wolstein's plan does in fact only demolish half of the building on the East Bank. People seem to forget about the strip of buildings on Old River Road on the other side of the Main Avenue Bridge that aren't part of his plan, and will remain in tact. And this strip of buildings is probably worth saving more than the others (in my opinion).

Offline clvlndr

  • 2717'-Burj Khalifa
  • **********
  • Posts: 5538
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #732 on: March 03, 2007, 01:45:39 PM »
^If you're talking about the Arhaus/(new) Watermark block, I agree... But stuff like the vacant Odeon, the hideous old Hooters building and that club at the old Kaos could kiss the wrecking ball for all I care, it's junk occupying key lots.  I'm not in love with BW3, accept that it does draw considerable biz and is reasonably fun place -- so it can stay... Wolstein's development could meet rejuvenated building south of the MAB and supplement the handsome residential buildings (Crittendon towers; River Bend; the townhouses).

btw, Jane's plan called for the ugly Main Ave Bridge to be torn down in the Lakefront project, which seems to be closer to fruition west of the river -- any idea how soon that can happen?... It certainly would open up both sides of the Flats and get rid of all the shadows.

Offline zaceman

  • 771'-Terminal Tower
  • *******
  • Posts: 1016
    • zaklong.tumblr.com
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #733 on: March 03, 2007, 02:39:27 PM »
i personally like how that bridge looks from pedestrian level in the flats. 

Online w28th

  • 1450'-Willis Tower
  • *********
  • Posts: 1682
Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #734 on: March 03, 2007, 04:38:20 PM »
I don't think tearing down the Main Avenue Bridge has ever been an option.  That would kind of make the new Lakefront Boulevard project by ODOT totally pointless.  Also, I hope you are being sarcastic about tearing down bridges in the Flats?  The bridges are some of the city's most interesting structures, why the hell would you want to demolish them?
"When you stand at the corner of Euclid Avenue and East Ninth Street in Cleveland, you stand at one of the busiest corners in the world -- and in the heart of a shopping district known far and wide for its many fine shops."

Remove Ads