Author Topic: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)  (Read 232020 times)

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Online simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #770 on: April 22, 2017, 01:34:28 PM »

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #771 on: May 19, 2017, 06:29:16 PM »
What's going on with the Metroparks Water Taxi?  According to their website, they're still just doing that single-boat, over-and-back FEB-FWB shuttle.  Seems a waste.  I would have thought, by now, they would have multiple boats and have routes covering places Merwin's, Settlers Landing, Wendy Island and, maybe even, North Coast Harbor.  What's the holdup, lack of corporate sponsors?  This is the summer I thought Water Taxi would really be expanding, especially with expanded activities and restaurants on and coming online like Collision Bend and Margaritaville.

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #772 on: May 19, 2017, 07:21:22 PM »
It's only been there for one season. I'm sure they don't want to over expand before this one is fully mature. Talking with the captains last year, even at the end of the season they were still working out the kinks.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #773 on: May 19, 2017, 07:36:36 PM »
It's only been there for one season. I'm sure they don't want to over expand before this one is fully mature. Talking with the captains last year, even at the end of the season they were still working out the kinks.
Sounds pretty conservative to me.  I mean the FEB has been open  2 years and we've had a full summer with the FEB boardwalk open. .Same with Merwins. Shooters has been open since forever as has been the Powerhouse which has had the Aquarium for, what, 4 or 5 years now? What are they waiting for?

I'll give Metroparks last year to get their legs under them. But now it's over a year and clearly the Flats, esp FEB, has established itself as a bonafide hit, esp on weekend nights (and not even warm ones at that).  Now with many designated cultural events down there along with Flat Out Friday's which was a hit... Again, what is Metroparks waiting for?

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #774 on: May 20, 2017, 01:18:10 AM »
You can always buy some boats and do it yourself.  Better than complaining on here about it.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #775 on: May 20, 2017, 09:16:50 AM »
I'm sure it's not as easy as it sounds.  If it were, the Metroparks would do it.  There has to be demand for the service.  Then of course operating a commercial service to multiple destinations with boatloads of people on a shipping lane with 600' lake freighters is not without regulatory hurdles.
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Offline Baskervilles

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #776 on: May 20, 2017, 10:18:54 AM »
You can always buy some boats and do it yourself.  Better than complaining on here about it.

Not trying to use my 9th post to pick a fight with a global moderator. But change the word "boats" to "land" and this could be the response to every complaint about a poorly designed non-urban development on this forum.

Hopefully activity down there this season is high enough to convince them to support an extended line next year.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #777 on: May 20, 2017, 10:27:23 AM »
You can always buy some boats and do it yourself.  Better than complaining on here about it.

Great attitude X.  So glad you're not running things in this town.

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #778 on: May 20, 2017, 10:41:22 AM »
Not claiming to have much knowledge about the maritime trade but one issue with expanding the water taxi - if you've ever taken it, it's not exactly breaking any speed records. To cover additional areas like Wendy Park, North Coast Harbor, etc. while maintaining a reasonable wait/trip time ... I'm guessing they'd need a significant amount more boats *or* bigger/faster which is probably cost prohibitive. As Cleburger said, if there's one group I'd put a little faith in getting something right, it's the Metroparks. With that, let's get back on topic.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #779 on: May 20, 2017, 10:44:46 AM »
I'm sure it's not as easy as it sounds.  If it were, the Metroparks would do it.  There has to be demand for the service.  Then of course operating a commercial service to multiple destinations with boatloads of people on a shipping lane with 600' lake freighters is not without regulatory hurdles.

Obviously, I like most people, absolutely love the awesome, long-standing service of Cleveland Metroparks: their tremendous upkeep of our amazing Emerald Necklace park system; the Zoo; Merwin's Warf and the major improvements/upgrades of Edgewater Park since they've come in a few years ago... They're obviously good people.  I'm just not sure they are the best group to be running the Water Taxi... I'm not saying they aren't, I just feel the jury is still out... The boat and crew of the single run they now have is top quality, as expected.  No denying that.

But even before they started, I was a little put off by their decision to cut off service after 9p because, in their words, they weren't designed to 'ferry around drunks' in the Flats... That attitude was troubling if, for anything, how could they project the Flats would revert to being, once again as in the old torn-down Flats, a crowd largely of drunks?  I haven't seen that so far I the happy resurgence of FEB and even quality-looking Collision Bend restaurant/brewpub.  I don't know if a better regulated (than the old Holy Moses folks) private water taxi operator wouldn't be preferable for the Flats... I'm not saying they would; I'm just not sure they wouldn't be...

With all the casual boaters, including college crew, jet skis, paddle boats and small pleasure craft along the Cuyahoga in the Flats these days, it's obvious that a whole lot of people want to be out on the water.  From the long Water Taxi lines we endured last summer just to ride across the river and back, it was obvious back then... and now, this summer, with FEB even more established -- and East Bank establishments expanding, it's even more so.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 10:47:24 AM by clvlndr »

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #780 on: May 20, 2017, 07:54:03 PM »
I wasn't trying to say the Metroparks are waiting to see if the Flats are ready for expanded service. I was saying the Metroparks themselves need to get ready for it. From what I remember chatting with them, its not an entirely simple process for them. Plus, while you may have experienced long lines for the water taxi, I never have, and I don't think long lines were the norm. Maybe they haven't been seeing the passenger numbers they were expecting? I'm sure there were times of long lines, but I've never been on it with more than 6-7 others, and many times I've been the only person, ever during some of the East Bank festivals.

Offline tj111

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #781 on: May 22, 2017, 10:25:06 AM »
I saw an article once talking about the costs of outfitting the taxi docks, they are not as easy to put in as you may think.  The whole operation is ADA compliant, so the docks and boats need to be wheelchair accessible and safe for kids and drunks and the like. Obviously the river is an active shipping channel, so the dock layout has to comply with other regulations and generally be put in in such a way that it's operations don't impede the marine traffic (large or small) on the river while its loading/unloading (which can be tricky to meet all those requirements in a relatively narrow river).  While i would like to see it expand as well I  can understand if they need proof that there is enough demand to warrant more boats and more investment in new dockage before pushing ahead.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #782 on: May 22, 2017, 10:38:19 AM »
I know the Water Taxi is not easy and I would rather have this in the more qualified hands of Metroparks than the fly-by-nighters who ran the old Holy Moses -- fun though HM were back in the Flats' heyday of the mid/late 1990s -- I'm just thankful there were no serious accidents and fatalities with HM because the condition of their boats was awful and the experience of their crewmen, suspect... Even if, for now, Metroparks just added 1 more boat and crew to run the back 'n forth to the West Bank, I'd be happy for now... I'm not sure when you tried it PoshSteve, but there were definitely lines when we tried Water Taxi last summer on a Saturday afternoon -- one our trip over we had to wait 3 boat revolutions before we could get over-- we didn't mind too much because we were just enjoying all the excitement and activity of the rejuvenated East Bank... Coming back it was just 2 revolutions... Add to that the fact the 2nd mate crew man (woman in this case) was taking fares and counting the passengers to make sure there was available space on the boat... 1 more boat + crew would work ... for now.

btw, isn't Metroparks a quasi-public agency meaning, couldn't they seek some kind of local, state or federal grant to run water taxi as transportation service in the public interest?  Just curious. 

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #783 on: May 22, 2017, 11:58:26 AM »
IMO a water would be better operated as a subsidized service via the Port Authority or even RTA.   It would be a great place for a company like Sherwin Williams to step in and provide funding for free taxi and waterfront line service.
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Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #784 on: May 22, 2017, 08:03:03 PM »
They are open for the season again btw. It's been said many times before, but I'll say again that expanding the hours would be a great idea. There was a concert going on at Nautica last night, but the taxi was already closed for the night before they even opened the gates. Would have been perfect for people to use it to hop over the the East Bank for dinner and then ride back before the show started. In the few hours I was down there yesterday, I only saw them cross the river once. I live in the Flats too, and took the taxi regularly last season, almost always on weekends.

Offline Equillibrius

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #785 on: May 23, 2017, 01:08:00 PM »
Imagine the increase in ridership if the water taxi added a stop to Whiskey Island/Wendy Park. When you're there you're literally across the river from the Flats, but in order to physically get there you must travel all the way back to the Edgewater Park entrance and double back on the Shoreway or Detroit Avenue.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 01:08:49 PM by Equillibrius »

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #786 on: May 23, 2017, 01:54:19 PM »
Imagine the increase in ridership if the water taxi added a stop to Whiskey Island/Wendy Park. When you're there you're literally across the river from the Flats, but in order to physically get there you must travel all the way back to the Edgewater Park entrance and double back on the Shoreway or Detroit Avenue.
WI/WP is going to really become an asset with better connections. Have you seen this idea:

http://www.clevelandskylift.com/where_does_it_go/

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #787 on: May 24, 2017, 06:59:09 PM »
Lake Link Trail is now paved and landscaping has been put in. Lights still have to go up along the way.



Offline TPH2

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #788 on: May 24, 2017, 07:49:50 PM »
Lake Link Trail is now paved and landscaping has been put in. Lights still have to go up along the way.


Nice! Lights were put up along most of the path a few weeks ago

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Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #789 on: May 24, 2017, 08:24:40 PM »
Ah that's right, you can even see one in my picture hidden in the trees lol. ^ I'm so glad the grass is coming in well. I can't believe what a difference has been made with this. When I moved here I didn't even know that old railway right of way was even dug out - it was so filled with brush and trash. I can't wait to see the bridge to Wendy Park, although we all know the story of how these pedestrian bridges are built in Cleveland...

Offline TPH2

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #790 on: May 24, 2017, 08:30:10 PM »
Ah that's right, you can even see one in my picture hidden in the trees lol. ^ I'm so glad the grass is coming in well. I can't believe what a difference has been made with this. When I moved here I didn't even know that old railway right of way was even dug out - it was so filled with brush and trash. I can't wait to see the bridge to Wendy Park, although we all know the story of how these pedestrian bridges are built in Cleveland...

Agreed, the bridge will be a game changer. At least we know that it's already fully funded, and with the Metroparks leading the way, I'm optimistic.

Now we just need to finish up getting funding for Irishtown Bend and the trail extension of the Willow Ave Bridge and it'll be all connected!
The quality of life in cities has much to do with systems of transport...Many cars, used by one or more people, circulate in cities, causing traffic congestion, raising the level of pollution, and consuming enormous quantities of non-renewable energy. -Pope Francis

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #791 on: May 26, 2017, 09:20:13 AM »
Rising from ruins: Historic Foundry in Cleveland Flats finds new life (photos)
Posted on May 26, 2017 at 7:01 AM
BY LAURA DEMARCO, THE PLAIN DEALER
ldemarco@plaind.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Cleveland was forged in places like the building at 1831 Columbus Road.

The historic 1893 foundry on the north bank of the Oxbow operated for decades, filled with hardworking men who melted, molded and pounded metal casing into shape, building Cleveland into an industrial powerhouse as well as new lives for their families in the growing town.

It was one of so many foundries and factories and warehouses and docks that grew up on the banks of the Cuyahoga River in the second half of the 19th century. Places where immigrants and other men - including one named Rockefeller - built businesses and a city. This, the industrial Flats, is where Cleveland was born.

MORE:
http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/05/historic_foundry_complex_in_cl.html
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Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #792 on: June 01, 2017, 08:55:30 PM »
Not sure what exactly this means, but maybe some wishes are coming true? Caught the water taxi zipping up and down the river. Caught it in front of the Powerhouse here, and then going under the Center Street bridge a few hours later. Clearly wasn't just a one time trip. Both times it had at least 10 passengers.


Offline jjames0408

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #793 on: June 11, 2017, 10:42:42 AM »
And another one....

Former nightclub building bought for big Nautica play

Real estate developer Jeffrey Jacobs has taken another million-dollar step toward expanding the Nautica Waterfront District beyond its entertainment center roots.

Technically, it's a $1.25 million step, as that's the amount that Nautica Entertainment LLC, the name that Jacobs holds west bank properties in, paid on June 1 for the 2325 Elm St. building, according to Cuyahoga County property records.

David Grunenwald, vice president of development at Nautica owner Jacobs Investments Inc., said in a June 7 phone interview that the acquisition is "just another step in what we're doing to keep Nautica moving forward."

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20170611/NEWS/170619964/former-nightclub-building-bought-for-big-nautica-play

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #794 on: June 11, 2017, 11:02:17 AM »
I don't think I've ever seen a summer like this in Cleveland. And we haven't even gotten to Medical Mutual or Sherwin Williams yet!
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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #795 on: June 11, 2017, 11:36:20 AM »
What I thought might be the last component in Jacobs master plan seems to be the first.  The idea of a hotel at Nautica is quietly moving forward. These guys are veteran developers which means they are always cautious and often skeptical. So if they think they are losing revenue by not having a hotel option is a great sign. They obviously don't believe that Cleveland is on the verge of being hotel heavy. And they have to be jealous of the success of the Aloft across the river. I only wish they would build it where Christie's is.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 11:38:13 AM by freethink »
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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #796 on: June 11, 2017, 11:40:20 AM »
What I thought might be the last component in Jacobs master plan seems to be the first.  The idea of a hotel at Nautica is quietly moving forward. These guys are veteran developers which means they are always cautious and often skeptical. So if they think they are losing revenue by not having a hotel option is a great sign. They obviously don't believe that Cleveland is on the verge of being hotel heavy. And they have to be jealous of the success of the Aloft across the river. I only wish they would build it where Christie's is.

Yeah I wouldn't be too upset if a barge "accidentally" crashed into Christie's
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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #797 on: June 11, 2017, 04:01:04 PM »
Saddened that this building will more than likely go away.
If anyone remembers 'Metropolis' in its heyday...you'd probably agree.
Not saying that it needs to be a masssive nightclub again, but it really is a unique space inside.

Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #798 on: June 11, 2017, 08:14:08 PM »
Jacobs on a serious mission to turn the Flats into vinillaville.
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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #799 on: June 12, 2017, 09:08:23 AM »
There's an almost endless amount of parking lots in the West Bank, and Jacobs wants to tear down more buildings...

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Re: Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)
« Reply #800 on: June 12, 2017, 10:10:58 AM »
There's an almost endless amount of parking lots in the West Bank, and Jacobs wants to tear down more buildings...

If only the Flats were some kind of historic district.....

But seriously, the Tenk building is a perfect example of what can be done. Of all  the grandiose plans floating around it's the Jacobs Nautica one that I hope "struggles with financing," as we say in these parts.


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