Author Topic: Cincinnati: Kroger  (Read 39923 times)

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Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #280 on: June 20, 2017, 09:26:42 AM »
Is it true that Kroger invented the concept of fixed prices, way back in the day? I swear I saw that in some video. They said that before Kroger, you just negotiated prices with the retailer.
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Offline Brutus_buckeye

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #281 on: June 20, 2017, 11:29:57 AM »
Looks like Amazon may not have the lock on Whole Foods after all

http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/19/investing/whole-foods-amazon-bidding-war/index.html

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #282 on: June 20, 2017, 12:35:20 PM »
Is it true that Kroger invented the concept of fixed prices, way back in the day? I swear I saw that in some video. They said that before Kroger, you just negotiated prices with the retailer.

I have read that Kroger was one of the first stores where the food was on display and customers brought it to a cashier.  Previously, people told a grocer what they wanted and he gathered it all up from a back storage area. 

My grandfather's brother-in-law owned and operated a small grocery store for many years.  I'd guess that it closed in the mid-1960s.  He knew EVERYBODY in the area.  When he got old, he seemed to go to funerals almost every day.   

Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #283 on: June 20, 2017, 12:50:50 PM »
I read an article explaining why it wouldn't be a good move for Kroger. They have $322M cash on their balance sheet. $14B in debt and selling stock to pay for Whole Foods is ill-advised; I didn't know this but apparently their stock has dipped 25% since it peaked at the end of 2015 so it's obviously not a good time for that. It also doesn't make sense to buy a rival that you're already increasingly beating with your own line of organic products (Simple Truth.) IMO, Whole Foods has great brand recognition but it's based on status and not real value which is what always, ultimately wins out.

I'm speaking now as an every-day consumer, not a business analyst. That place is expensive as hell, for no reason except for yuppies paying a premium to shop among other yuppies. It's sad how expensive they are, for such a big box grocer. A LOT of grocery chains are going organic and being socially responsible. My God, ALDI's is now a major threat to Whole Foods! When I was growing up, Aldi's was like the bottom of the barrel! No different from Save-A-Lot. You had to put a quarter in the cart to unlock it and re-lock it to get your quarter back, just so they could prevent homeless people from stealing the carts! Aldi operates in the hood and if Whole Foods wants to generate more revenue, they should be reaching out to poor people which is a largely untapped market for them, it seems. However, with Aldi (and Kroger) already being established in the hood, do you think poor folks would ever go out of their way to shop at Whole Foods which is only established in rich neighborhoods that aren't easily accessible by public transit? They probably just don't feel comfortable in there. The beauty of Kroger is that they know how to cater to the local/neighborhood market. They adjust with each store and they typically have 'something for everybody.'

Everyone loves Kroger! My GF is from Cleveland and I met her in Columbus when she went to school down there and she fell in love with Kroger! And she's a vegetarian who typically buys organic stuff, lots of produce, opts for free-range eggs and all that socially responsible stuff but like me, she often times (depending on the product) will let her morals and scruples regarding healthy eating become compromised if the deal is good enough. Like me, she wishes there were Krogers up here in CLE! It's the perfect, well-rounded grocery store for everybody.

No matter who buys Whole Foods, Whole Foods is going to die unless they become fundamentally different but the perceived value of Whole Foods is based on their current model and reputation so that's why I say Kroger should stay out of it and continue to eat them alive.

Amazon is just being reckless and getting into something they know very little about because they can afford to do that.
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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #284 on: June 20, 2017, 12:58:00 PM »
Under Whole Foods current business model and store profile, they might already be at the point where they can't expand much more since they've already located in almost all of the no-hillbillies-within-a-10-mile-radius areas that there are in the U.S.

Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #285 on: June 20, 2017, 01:09:44 PM »
Is it true that Kroger invented the concept of fixed prices, way back in the day? I swear I saw that in some video. They said that before Kroger, you just negotiated prices with the retailer.

I have read that Kroger was one of the first stores where the food was on display and customers brought it to a cashier.  Previously, people told a grocer what they wanted and he gathered it all up from a back storage area. 

My grandfather's brother-in-law owned and operated a small grocery store for many years.  I'd guess that it closed in the mid-1960s.  He knew EVERYBODY in the area.  When he got old, he seemed to go to funerals almost every day.   

Oh, well if they were one of the first to put food on display, I guess it would make sense that they would be the first or one of the first to put price tags on stuff. Kroger has always been very innovative and it seems they still are. They were the first to implement scanners and also loyalty cards that collect consumer data. They had to be at least one of the first to implement u-scan. I definitely remember them being the first to have it, from my own experience as a consumer.

Kroger led the way with an app, allowing people to order online and pick up their groceries in-store. Amazon is a high-tech company who has countless in-house developers so I'm sure they think they could efficiently bring innovative tech to the grocery biz at Whole Foods but the problem is that there's inevitably going to be a huge disconnect between their managers and engineers understanding the psychology of their grocery store customers. Whole foods doesn't have a problem with digital technology, they just don't seem to know how to provide value to customers and yuppies are a limited niche market, but also a limited niche market where the consumers are ultimately suckers for value over status like anyone else and that's why Kroger will always win.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 01:14:17 PM by David »
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Offline Gramarye

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #286 on: June 20, 2017, 01:48:12 PM »
I'm speaking now as an every-day consumer, not a business analyst. That place is expensive as hell, for no reason except for yuppies paying a premium to shop among other yuppies. It's sad how expensive they are, for such a big box grocer. A LOT of grocery chains are going organic and being socially responsible. My God, ALDI's is now a major threat to Whole Foods! When I was growing up, Aldi's was like the bottom of the barrel! No different from Save-A-Lot. You had to put a quarter in the cart to unlock it and re-lock it to get your quarter back, just so they could prevent homeless people from stealing the carts! Aldi operates in the hood and if Whole Foods wants to generate more revenue, they should be reaching out to poor people which is a largely untapped market for them, it seems. However, with Aldi (and Kroger) already being established in the hood, do you think poor folks would ever go out of their way to shop at Whole Foods which is only established in rich neighborhoods that aren't easily accessible by public transit? They probably just don't feel comfortable in there. The beauty of Kroger is that they know how to cater to the local/neighborhood market. They adjust with each store and they typically have 'something for everybody.'

The Aldi family is expanding in the US in two ways: Existing Aldi stores are offering more upscale products, and Aldi's discounted sister chain, Lidl, is expanding significantly in the US, starting in the East.  But Aldi still does operate largely in lower-class areas and they even still have those carts with the quarters.  Those aren't just to prevent theft.  They're to eliminate the need for cart handlers.  The quarter makes people return the carts to the main store building.  Aldi wages can actually be quite high for the grocery sector, especially for cashiers compared to other places, but the secret is that they generally have fewer employees overall.  No specialty counters (deli, butcher, bakery, etc.), and generally only 3-4 checkout lines where a Kroger might have 12 and a Wal-Mart might have 20-30.

Aldi saves costs with a lot of vertical integration--a ridiculous amount of products stocked at an Aldi will be house brands compared to a Kroger.

Quote
No matter who buys Whole Foods, Whole Foods is going to die unless they become fundamentally different but the perceived value of Whole Foods is based on their current model and reputation so that's why I say Kroger should stay out of it and continue to eat them alive.

Amazon is just being reckless and getting into something they know very little about because they can afford to do that.

People have generally not fared well betting that Amazon was expanding too fast and unsustainably, or was recklessly moving into markets it couldn't compete in.  It did have a flop with the Fire Phone, for example, but has more than made up for it with the Echo, Kindle (and Kindle Fire), etc.

That said, yes, Whole Foods was struggling.  Amazon's offer of $42/share is a substantial premium over their recent closing price in the low $30s, but still quite a discount from a year or two ago when Whole Foods was somewhere in the $55 range.  The question, as with basically any merger, is whether Amazon can do more with Whole Foods than Whole Foods was able to do with itself.

Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #287 on: June 20, 2017, 02:04:58 PM »
Amazon was recently granted a patent that prevents shoppers from comparing prices online, inside brick and mortar stores. Wow...  They were granted the patent shortly before they announced that they would buy Whole Foods.

What other wonderful technological innovations will they think of next?


Quote
The Washington Post reported yesterday that Amazon has recently been awarded a patent which could keep customers in its new retail locations from comparing online prices for products while there-- something which, in the past several years, would traditionally be done on Amazon itself. Known as 'mobile window shopping,' the practice has allowed many consumers to get a real-life feel for products in retail locations before ordering them online for less, and has helped cause a "worrisome decline" for brick-and-mortar businesses, according to the Post.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2017/06/18/amazon-patented-a-tool-to-prevent-the-price-comparisons-that-grew-its-empire/#5c36e274dfad
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 02:43:38 PM by David »
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Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #288 on: June 20, 2017, 02:39:05 PM »
They patented a technology that prevents you from looking up prices online while you're in a brick and mortar store. That's actually pretty genius. They didn't register that patent so they could use it themselves.... they got it to prevent other brick and mortar stores from doing the same thing. So Walmart can't prevent people from loading Amazon while they're inside a Walmart.
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Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #289 on: June 20, 2017, 02:45:26 PM »
They could certainly use it at Whole Foods, though. Or whatever brick and mortar stores they plan to take over in the future. They'd benefit on both sides of that. Although, there would be a huge backlash once customers fall victim to that. I'm not sure if they realize that or not.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 02:57:07 PM by David »
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Offline Ram23

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #290 on: June 20, 2017, 08:01:12 PM »
Amazon's patent is kind of odd. It only works if you're using their in-store wifi. Who does that? Does Wal-Mart even have wifi? Does Kroger? If they do, they could just simply block any and all of Amazon's websites. I assume most people just use their own data rather than unsecured public wifi, anyway. I know stores that were early adopters of in-store wifi, like Nordstrom, we're doing all sorts of shady things with it like tracking how much time you spent in which areas, routes you took through the store, etc. They don't care if you use it for price comparison because they get all sorts of valuable information about your habits and routines that prior to cell phones they could have only dreamed about. Most stores can use the fact that your cell phone is constantly pinging for wifi networks to track you even if you aren't using their network. If you shop somewhere frequently with an in-house credit or loyalty card, they can match you to your wireless device with rather uncanny certainty.

Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #291 on: June 21, 2017, 01:03:47 AM »
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Amazon's patent is kind of odd. It only works if you're using their in-store wifi. Who does that? Does Wal-Mart even have wifi? Does Kroger? If they do, they could just simply block any and all of Amazon's websites. I assume most people just use their own data rather than unsecured public wifi, anyway. I know stores that were early adopters of in-store wifi, like Nordstrom, we're doing all sorts of shady things with it like tracking how much time you spent in which areas, routes you took through the store, etc. They don't care if you use it for price comparison because they get all sorts of valuable information about your habits and routines that prior to cell phones they could have only dreamed about. Most stores can use the fact that your cell phone is constantly pinging for wifi networks to track you even if you aren't using their network. If you shop somewhere frequently with an in-house credit or loyalty card, they can match you to your wireless device with rather uncanny certainty.

There's a very good chance that people will simply be using Amazon/Whole Foods' open network connection, entirely unbeknownst to them when they're in the store and curious to check on their phone for better prices online. Most people don't know how to manipulate settings on their smart phone and simply don't ultimately care enough about it or will even have the problem solving skills or drive to achieve and implement those basic problem solving skills, to figure their way out of that sort of a block, while they're in a retail store. If Amazon knows anything about grocery store consumer behavior, I guess they know this. The average consumer simply sees a webpage stating that they've attempted to view a webpage from a competitor and that they're unable to access it at their current location. I really do picture most folks simply giving up instead of figuring out how to manually disable their wifi-data while enabling only the 3-4G connection through their phone provider in the Android settings . The users just going, "Ugh. How did they know I was trying to compare prices!? Friggin' internet magic with software coding. Oh well. I'll just buy this sh!t here." 

Although I'm sure what's more likely to manifest on the resulting screen after a price comparison search is some incredibly vague statement or error code that looks like absolute meaningless jibberish, after the user's request to said competitor's website was sent. Most people simply aren't going to look into it any further. No doubt, you can expect almost zero inclination from the users to actually Google said obscure error code and access informative message boards that would allow for them to figure out what the error code means and how to bypass it to give them the freedom they deserve, as a consumer.

I do see a lot of benefit of brick and mortar stores, as mentioned above but I simply don't believe in denying consumers access to information on the web. It just isn't right. Ultimately, I'm confident  folks will see the light but it's sad that it will take a while before most people can comprehend what's going on with Amazon.

Back to resolving the issue of blocked web service:  that would take like 10-40 seconds of your time to fix a problem and who has time for that? Performance in web app response time is typically measured in milliseconds. Consumers actually notice differences in milliseconds and people definitely don't have time to spend actual seconds anymore to research and achieve their goal of obtaining valuable information, especially when it requires critical thinking and real actions from the user, based on critical thinking. It's really sad. Twitters success is almost certainly attributed to it's 140 character limit.
 
When I went to coding boot camp, my instructor spent 8 full hours explaining network administration and although I'm not a Network Administrator and it's far beyond my forte,  I can tell you that what I learned was pretty d@mn weird and eye-opening. He showed us how to use programs as a network administrator to obtain a lot of personal data from devices connected to the network you're overseeing and how to see all of the requests sent to and from devices connected to said private network - which gives you a lot of information about the users within the network and their web activity. To be honest, I'm not sure why that was even part of the curriculum - it didn't seem to have much to do with coding, particularly- the back and front-end languages we were learning - but he snuck that in there becauase he felt the need to inform us of a very real, although dark, very pertinent side of IT, as he did with a lot of hacking tools that he felt we should be made aware of.

I've been way too lazy and relaxed about getting proper security on my smart-phone; I really need to get "Wifi Assistant" for Android. After just now digging deeper into my phone's WIFI settings, I discovered that I have some pretty remarkable and shocking 'saved networks' (open networks that I've never even intentionally connected to but managed to connect to, none-the-less and will always auto-connect to, when I'm nearby. I've been apathetic about changing and never addressed.

McDonalds and Brueggers to name a few. I don't even like bagels; I went into Brueggers literally one time just to use their bathroom because I really had to take a p!ss. McDonalds - I went in there a couple times in the past year to get a smoothie but before I found out that they're not real smoothies and I know for a fact that I've never actually actively used the internet while in there. Yet I've connected to their network and have their network saved on my phone and will always auto-connect to them when I'm nearby. My device is simply programmed to use default factory settings which constantly sends probing requests to potential nearby open WiFi networks with the ultimate goal of finding an open network that allows for free data transmission to alleviate the burden from my data plan (as smart phones are constantly sending and receiving data for numerous reasons.) Fact is, I don't really care about data usage; I personally spend less than $40 a month for a crap ton of 4G data (more than I need, despite watching a lot of YouTube videos and listening to a lot of music) when I'm outside of using my own secure, home network and even if I were to deplete all of my allotted 4G data, I'd still have unlimited 3G which isn't as fast but eventually gets the job done.

One thing I'll say in Kroger's defense is that although they pioneered the collection of consumer data through loyalty cards, people are at least aware of what's going on and know that ultimately they do get savings out of the deal - by giving up their data. They do get quality, they get good prices on products and ultimately savings. I don't know what the hell Amazon is up to and like I said, I'm not a real business analyst but speaking as a consumer, I just know this isn't a good move for Amazon of consumers. I don't like it and  I don't trust what they're up to; I  have a hunch is sneaky and deceptive and don't trust where it's headed. I don't believe they're ultimately going to be successful with acquiring Whole Foods. I believe in the power of a consumer-driven society and I just don't trust Amazon, knowing what I already know. I also don't think Whole Foods is capable of producing nearly as much value for consumers as a company like Kroger or Aldi. I'm confident many other people feel the same way or at least will soon enough.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 02:06:49 AM by David »
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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #292 on: June 21, 2017, 10:11:02 AM »
An analysis I read last night in the Dispatch indicated that Whole Foods admitted that they can't really expand much more months ago. That's why their shares dropped at the time.

Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #293 on: June 21, 2017, 02:08:16 PM »
Why the hell would Amazon buy a company that clearly can't grow much more? I never cared about Whole Foods before but I'm really wondering what Amazon has up it's sleeve.

IMO, their best growth strategy (and Amazon certainly has the money to do this) would be to hire lobbyists and put money into campaigns for politicians in Washington with the goal to have the definition of USDA Certified Organic, changed. I've heard that all these companies who are going organic are getting by from the skin on their teeth with calling things organic. They could also start a massive online smear campaign against the phony organic stuff. If Whole Foods really does uphold higher standards, it seems that would be their best bet for growth. No one knows where the hell their food comes from and what all was involved in farming it. It really is a lot of work to look all that up. All we know is that two comparable things labelled organic at Whole Foods and Kroger have a major price difference and we don't like the higher prices.

Ultimately though, I don't think people care much about the actual standards and methods of farming. They buy what is labelled healthy to feel good about themselves. It's just as psychological as it is physiological. It's like how I eat zucchini fries instead of potato fries. I'm eating zucchini so I feel good about it but I'm still eating processed food that was breaded, drenched in fryer oil and therefore tastes just like regular fries but I chose the healthier option!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 02:10:58 PM by David »
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Offline AmrapinVA

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #294 on: June 21, 2017, 02:31:59 PM »
Everyone loves Kroger! 

Yeah, I disagree with this statement. Are there any Wegman's opening in Ohio? Kroger's really doesn't stand a chance against them. I'm not a huge Wegman's fan either. Surprised they're even considering trying to go against them on the East Coast with the standard Kroger's product. Unless the idea is to expand Harris Teeter. That would make more sense.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 02:32:18 PM by AmrapinVA »

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #295 on: June 21, 2017, 02:39:34 PM »
Why the hell would Amazon buy a company that clearly can't grow much more? I never cared about Whole Foods before but I'm really wondering what Amazon has up it's sleeve.

Amazon may not need Whole Foods to grow much more as an organic grocer, not if they can grow their grocery business in entirely new dimensions rather than just expanding store count and improving same-store sales YOY.  If they're serious about home delivery (possibly even drone delivery), though, they just acquired 450 reasonably spacious launchpads, not to mention plenty of spaces for local pickup, which they'd previously been renting or buying dedicated space for.

That said, while I'm definitely not as hostile to the Amazon purchase of Whole Foods as you are (and certainly on the completely opposite pole as you when talking about Amazon generally), I'll still say that as a shareholder with an above-negligible percentage of my net worth invested in Amazon, I think Amazon might have overpaid for Whole Foods and I'm not 100% sold.  But I've ridden Amazon from the low $100s to above $1000/share (and bought more in just about every decile between $100 and $900), and I've learned to give them the benefit of the doubt until I'm much clearer about my doubts.

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #296 on: June 21, 2017, 03:10:03 PM »
Why the hell would Amazon buy a company that clearly can't grow much more? I never cared about Whole Foods before but I'm really wondering what Amazon has up it's sleeve.

Amazon may not need Whole Foods to grow much more as an organic grocer, not if they can grow their grocery business in entirely new dimensions rather than just expanding store count and improving same-store sales YOY.  If they're serious about home delivery (possibly even drone delivery), though, they just acquired 450 reasonably spacious launchpads, not to mention plenty of spaces for local pickup, which they'd previously been renting or buying dedicated space for.

...

This is what I think people here are underestimating about this purchase.  Amazon didn't buy WF for their grocery prowess or their ability to continue to grow, they bought them as a distribution platform.  And the only thing that Amazon doesn't distribute well is perishable goods.  But instead of trying to create an entire network to move and store these goods they bought one.  And can now exploit it with the full purchasing power of Amazon.

Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #297 on: June 21, 2017, 03:53:49 PM »
Why the hell would Amazon buy a company that clearly can't grow much more? I never cared about Whole Foods before but I'm really wondering what Amazon has up it's sleeve.

Amazon may not need Whole Foods to grow much more as an organic grocer, not if they can grow their grocery business in entirely new dimensions rather than just expanding store count and improving same-store sales YOY.  If they're serious about home delivery (possibly even drone delivery), though, they just acquired 450 reasonably spacious launchpads, not to mention plenty of spaces for local pickup, which they'd previously been renting or buying dedicated space for.

That said, while I'm definitely not as hostile to the Amazon purchase of Whole Foods as you are (and certainly on the completely opposite pole as you when talking about Amazon generally), I'll still say that as a shareholder with an above-negligible percentage of my net worth invested in Amazon, I think Amazon might have overpaid for Whole Foods and I'm not 100% sold.  But I've ridden Amazon from the low $100s to above $1000/share (and bought more in just about every decile between $100 and $900), and I've learned to give them the benefit of the doubt until I'm much clearer about my doubts.

We're not on opposite poles. That makes sense. I'm just a critic of everything, even when I have no right to be. I don't have any particular grudge against Amazon; I just say what's on my mind because I know it spurs good conversations on here.

I guess I wasn't thinking about launch pads and using the stores for distribution and home delivery. They're going to need to buy brick and mortar somewhere, for those purposes.  Perhaps WF stores are also a good central location for their consumer base. You need good central locations for distribution and that certainly also applies to home delivery from drones that I'm sure are costly to run; the smaller the radius, the more efficient. The whole drone thing just seems so distant in the future, though. It's hard to believe that drone delivery would even be financially feasible considering how much they would cost to build and maintain - especially for drones that are capable of carrying such heavy loads. We're still far away from having self-driving cars as the norm. I know next to nothing about how air traffic control works but I know drones are a recent technology where there isn't much in the way of legislation regulating safety standards because drones just aren't used much commercially. Extremely small ones (that don't pose much of a risk from collision) are used for sport and photography or video. Other than that, they're mostly used in the military.  It's not feasible to have a bunch of certified pilots controlling unmanned aircraft remotely; Amazon would have to develop software that allows the drones to make it safely to a destination and back, relying on GPS but also program the drones to recognize every potential obstruction and take proper actions accordingly, similar to what self-driving cars do. They need to recognize shapes, colors, distances, all sorts of patterns. That would require so many years of testing and it seems that there would be so many legal hoops. How many people know how to repair commercial drones? What sort of certification is involved in that, to ensure safety - so that a drone doesn't fall from the sky or is the reason that my obituary states my cause of death was being hit by a bag full of potatoes and oranges that fell on me? They better initiate a huge training program for that. How far along is Amazon in developing this? It just seems way too early to be concerned about launch pads. I don't know a whole lot about Amazon and what they're up to, though.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 04:01:43 PM by David »
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Offline Gramarye

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #298 on: June 21, 2017, 04:02:43 PM »
We're a lot closer to self-driving cars than you think, and drones actually probably pose less of a safety risk to human health than those, not more.  In terms of the loads drones would be able to carry, remember that they wouldn't need to be able to carry as much as a UPS delivery truck or even an average car.  A lightweight drone capable of carrying just 70 lbs (a frequent number used in the physical requirements for package delivery) would be able to do a great deal of work if it could be run cheaply enough, because it could run 24/7 (granted some grocery deliveries wouldn't quite work at 4 a.m., but some would).  But you're right, that's farther in the future.  But AmazonFresh already exists in several markets and now will be able to expand very rapidly into any market served by a Whole Foods.  In-store pickup is also obviously an area that Amazon will be able to offer very quickly using its own online platform and Whole Foods' stores (many grocery stores are already moving in this direction with their own platforms, but Amazon has a massive preexisting user base used to their platform--I don't need to learn the Giant Eagle platform or create yet another account for it).

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #299 on: June 21, 2017, 04:04:38 PM »
So are these drones going to drop bottles of ketchup and cheese wedges right down your chimney?  Are people going to retrofit their homes with roof funnels that allow this crap made in China to drop down a tube right onto their beer guts?

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #300 on: June 21, 2017, 04:09:59 PM »
^ If I could just think of an analog...some sort of service that gets paid to put cardboard boxes on your doorstep.  I mean, if the boxes are brown...maybe the delivery service could be brown, too...man, why hasn't someone thought of this concept yet?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 04:10:14 PM by OHSnap »

Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #301 on: June 21, 2017, 04:17:25 PM »
Mail carriers don't do it with drones and probably won't anytime soon. I have 100% faith that Amazon will have auto-piloted drones long before USPS or UPS or whatever, while expensive-@ss 1 day delivery for urgent mail still actually takes two days if you have it shipped on Saturday or 3 days if you have it shipped on Saturday and the following Monday is a holiday. That's so obnoxious. Every time I turn around, it's another Monday holiday that no one even celebrates in America. That crap happens to me every time I lose my debit card and need a new one. I hate the concept of 'business days.'

The most efficient and quick delivery will be for crap made in China that we don't even need quickly.

Sorry, I once again have caused a thread to go off topic.   :yap:

Go Kroger!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 04:26:22 PM by David »
Modern architects recognize 300 masterpieces but ignore the other 30 million buildings that have ruined the world. - Andres Duany

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #302 on: June 21, 2017, 05:38:06 PM »
We're a lot closer to self-driving cars than you think, and drones actually probably pose less of a safety risk to human health than those, not more.  In terms of the loads drones would be able to carry, remember that they wouldn't need to be able to carry as much as a UPS delivery truck or even an average car.  A lightweight drone capable of carrying just 70 lbs (a frequent number used in the physical requirements for package delivery) would be able to do a great deal of work if it could be run cheaply enough, because it could run 24/7 (granted some grocery deliveries wouldn't quite work at 4 a.m., but some would).  But you're right, that's farther in the future.  But AmazonFresh already exists in several markets and now will be able to expand very rapidly into any market served by a Whole Foods.  In-store pickup is also obviously an area that Amazon will be able to offer very quickly using its own online platform and Whole Foods' stores (many grocery stores are already moving in this direction with their own platforms, but Amazon has a massive preexisting user base used to their platform--I don't need to learn the Giant Eagle platform or create yet another account for it).

I wonder how much crap kids are going to throw at them. Or thieves throwing a net over them.

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #303 on: June 21, 2017, 06:04:49 PM »
We're a lot closer to self-driving cars than you think, and drones actually probably pose less of a safety risk to human health than those, not more.  In terms of the loads drones would be able to carry, remember that they wouldn't need to be able to carry as much as a UPS delivery truck or even an average car.  A lightweight drone capable of carrying just 70 lbs (a frequent number used in the physical requirements for package delivery) would be able to do a great deal of work if it could be run cheaply enough, because it could run 24/7 (granted some grocery deliveries wouldn't quite work at 4 a.m., but some would).  But you're right, that's farther in the future.  But AmazonFresh already exists in several markets and now will be able to expand very rapidly into any market served by a Whole Foods.  In-store pickup is also obviously an area that Amazon will be able to offer very quickly using its own online platform and Whole Foods' stores (many grocery stores are already moving in this direction with their own platforms, but Amazon has a massive preexisting user base used to their platform--I don't need to learn the Giant Eagle platform or create yet another account for it).

I wonder how much crap kids are going to throw at them. Or thieves throwing a net over them.

That phenomenon should recede to manageable levels once the drones start shooting back.   :evil: :shoot:

Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #304 on: June 21, 2017, 06:05:10 PM »
Can a mod or admin please start a new commercial drone thread and relocate these recent posts to said potential thread? At this point, I believe it's safe to say that the conversation has next to nothing to do with Kroger (unless they have been considering drones for home delivery as well - something I'm not aware of.) A large company targeting launch pad sites for drone home delivery or the idea of launch pad sites used for any potential commercial use of drones would have a very profound impact on urban planning due to strategic locations where they'd be operating brick-and-mortar stores for distribution and home delivery service. I believe this does warrant a discussion yet shouldn't clutter a thread dedicated to Kroger-specific news. Unless some lurking Kroger exec makes and account and decides to weigh in on all this high-tech stuff and explain where they come into play and how Kroger is still relevant to all this, it's just not a pertinent conversation but I do believe it's a conversation worth having, on here.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 06:12:55 PM by David »
Modern architects recognize 300 masterpieces but ignore the other 30 million buildings that have ruined the world. - Andres Duany

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #305 on: June 21, 2017, 06:25:51 PM »
^I started a drone thread in 2014.  It's still there but nobody has posted other than me. 

Offline David

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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #306 on: June 21, 2017, 06:27:57 PM »
What was the thread called? They need to bump it by adding these recent posts. I don't think anyone would argue that it's an extremely fascinating subject. Amazon drones making home deliveries probably are coming eventually, as outlandish as it may seem. Yet there hasn't been much thought put into their consequence.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 06:32:56 PM by David »
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Re: Cincinnati: Kroger
« Reply #307 on: July 17, 2017, 12:39:17 PM »
Lawmaker Wants Antitrust Panel To Take A Closer Look At Amazon, Whole Foods Merger


U.S. Representative David Cicilline, the top Democrat on the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee’s antitrust panel, sent a letter [PDF] to the chairman of the Committee on the Judiciary and the chairman of the antitrust subcommittee, urging them to hold a hearing to consider whether the merger will harm consumers, workers, and small businesses.

He cites concerns that “the combination of Amazon’s competitive advantages in terms of size, consumer reach, and ability to absorb losses may discourage innovation and entrance into emerging markets, such as grocery and food delivery.”


https://consumerist.com/2017/07/14/lawmaker-wants-antitrust-panel-to-take-a-closer-look-at-amazon-whole-foods-merger/

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