Poll

How many games will the Cavaliers win in the 2016-17 season?

70 or more
4 (22.2%)
60-69
12 (66.7%)
50-59
2 (11.1%)
40-49
0 (0%)
Fewer than 40
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: November 05, 2016, 02:09:38 PM

Author Topic: Cleveland Cavs Discussion  (Read 796578 times)

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Online clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8575 on: June 29, 2017, 10:15:34 AM »
Cleveland Cavaliers' off-season road map to improving title chances: Chris Fedor

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/06/cleveland_cavaliers_road_map_t.html#incart_river_index

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8576 on: July 03, 2017, 12:42:55 PM »
Billups withdraws from consideration

Offline BelievelandD1

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8577 on: July 03, 2017, 01:45:09 PM »
^ pitiful. Two respected people Gilbert didn't want to pay and now he is likely going to have a no namer trying to build a title here. The last hope for the offseason is to somehow land Melo without giving up anything else.  That will likely help the Cavs significantly

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8578 on: July 03, 2017, 02:10:10 PM »
NBA fans get waaaaay too tied up in potential rumors.  Butler got traded to Minny.  Didn't hear much, if anything about that potential before it happened.  PG went to OKC.  Not on anyone's radar before it went down.  Point being, don't get too wrapped up in the "rumors" as far as what we can and will do.  99% of what you hear is what has already been discussed and dismissed.

In real news, we did re-sign Korver at a reasonable price.  I'm not worried about his age since his game never relied on explosiveness.  Hopefully, after a full year in the fold, we will get better minutes out of him in the playoffs.  And Jose Calderon signed for the vet minimum.  So we add two to the five starters, plus Shump and Frye.  That's your top 9 at the moment.  I do believe the rumors that Shump is on the market.... but any deal for him has to be a 'win', so I don't think the chances that he gets traded are very high.  If trading him frees up some money to sign someone better, then they will do it.  Same for Frye.

In other news, Cedi Osman will be coming over this year.  I don't expect him to make any significant contributions. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 02:11:24 PM by Hts121 »
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Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8579 on: July 03, 2017, 02:28:21 PM »
What does this team look like by adding Carmelo Anthony. Is he the 6th man?

Offline bumsquare

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8580 on: July 03, 2017, 02:30:19 PM »
^ pitiful. Two respected people Gilbert didn't want to pay and now he is likely going to have a no namer trying to build a title here. The last hope for the offseason is to somehow land Melo without giving up anything else.  That will likely help the Cavs significantly
The Griffin thing was definitely weird, but I'm 1000% sure we're missing some part of the story. Really can't believe Lebron didn't have anything to do with it (although his tweet would seem to indicate otherwise). I also don't see how Griffin would have done anything different this offseason. We got Korver back at a very reasonable salary and found a cheap backup PG. I don't know how to explain what happened with the PG and Butler trades. I have to think Boston would have been able to out-bid us regardless of whether Griffin was here. For better (and I don't know how you argue with 3 straight Finals appearances) or worse we'll be rolling out the same 8 man rotation for next year's playoffs.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8581 on: July 03, 2017, 02:38:47 PM »
^People have quickly forgotten how patient and deliberate Griffin was in his dealings.  He was not a knee jerk GM.  The people who are lamenting his absence want Gilbert to make knee jerk decisions.

Part of what happened with Butler and PG trades is that neither the Bulls nor the Pacers wanted to trade their star players within division.

As for Griff's departure, I think that was all him and Gilbert.  He wanted more/sole control and a lot more $$$.  Gilbert just doesn't place all that much value on GM.  I'll bet he thinks that any competent GM who has LeBron and an owner willing to spend well into the repeater tax should be able to have some success.  For my part, I don't want Gilbert making personnel decisions, but this criticism of him "cutting corners" by not paying Griff what he demanded is ridiculous if you consider that Korver's signing just added $20mill to the tax bill for next season.   
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Offline bumsquare

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8582 on: July 03, 2017, 02:57:55 PM »
I still don't understand the reasoning (not saying it isn't true) that Indy or Chicago wouldn't want to trade within the conference or division. I suppose it makes sense with Boston since theoretically their window should be open longer than the Cavs. But PG and Butler (not to mention Lebron) should be well into decline by the time those teams are ready to contend.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8583 on: July 03, 2017, 03:02:38 PM »
^The optics, I suppose.  Plus, at least in PG's case, Indy probably wanted to minimize fan exposure to him by limiting the games he will play in Indy next year.  In the end, I don't think the package they took from OKC was all that much worse than what we could've/would've offered them.  And who knows what we did offer them.   
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Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8584 on: July 03, 2017, 03:11:52 PM »
It's time to face the reality that the Cavaliers will walk through the weak Eastern Conference with no challenge and once again lose to Golden State in the Finals. The NBA season through the conference playoffs could be simulated at this point and no will would miss a thing. As a Cavaliers fan, there's no enjoying this ride, there's nothing to get excited about here, because this is all expected.

Longer term, the outlook is much more discouraging. If LeBron returns in 2018-2019, the same thing will happen. Golden State may become vulnerable in 2019-2020 when Klay Thompson leaves, but by then LeBron will be into his mid-30s at that point and if he's still here, that will be his 17th season.

When I look back on this era, I will remember the one title that this team brought to the city, but I'll also lament it as a time period of many missed opportunities. The Cavaliers will have failed in taking advantage of having the best player in a generation by only winning one title in four (or more seasons).

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8585 on: July 03, 2017, 03:33:09 PM »
Yes GSW is better on paper, but it is far from a foregone conclusion that we lose to them in the Finals again.  We were one 4th quarter meltdown away from the series being tied 2-2.  Hell, we were one missed Korver 3 away from that.  Lots of things can change.  GSW may not be fully healthy.  Durant may not be 'en fuego' at the right time.  Our bench may actually contribute something.

The experience is what you make of it.  Someone spoke the truth this week when they said we worship the 80's Browns teams like they were Gods, and enjoyed the runs they had to the utmost, but the entire City is one big negative nancy when it comes to the Cavs/LeBron.   
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Offline bumsquare

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8586 on: July 03, 2017, 04:06:53 PM »
Yes GSW is better on paper, but it is far from a foregone conclusion that we lose to them in the Finals again.  We were one 4th quarter meltdown away from the series being tied 2-2.  Hell, we were one missed Korver 3 away from that.  Lots of things can change.  GSW may not be fully healthy.  Durant may not be 'en fuego' at the right time.  Our bench may actually contribute something.

The experience is what you make of it.  Someone spoke the truth this week when they said we worship the 80's Browns teams like they were Gods, and enjoyed the runs they had to the utmost, but the entire City is one big negative nancy when it comes to the Cavs/LeBron.   
Agree with this 100%. Cavs could have easily won in 2015 if everybody was healthy, same for Warriors in 2016. 2017 was the only year both squads were healthy. Cavs always have a shot with Lebron, but if Warriors lose any of Curry, Durant, or Green it's an entirely different game. They're also going to have a much more difficult road in the playoffs this year.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8587 on: July 03, 2017, 05:02:03 PM »
Yes GSW is better on paper, but it is far from a foregone conclusion that we lose to them in the Finals again.  We were one 4th quarter meltdown away from the series being tied 2-2.  Hell, we were one missed Korver 3 away from that.  Lots of things can change.  GSW may not be fully healthy.  Durant may not be 'en fuego' at the right time.  Our bench may actually contribute something.

The experience is what you make of it.  Someone spoke the truth this week when they said we worship the 80's Browns teams like they were Gods, and enjoyed the runs they had to the utmost, but the entire City is one big negative nancy when it comes to the Cavs/LeBron.   

I just don't think reality matches up with this idea that some are pushing that the Cavaliers were all that close in this year's NBA Finals. But I will grant you one this, after I made my post about how hopes for next year are futile, I immediately thought of the one thing that I believe would significantly alter the chances of the Cavaliers winning next year. If Golden State has a season-ending injury to one of its superstars, I think the Cavaliers can compete and win. Short of that, I think the NBA would be safe in handing the trophy to the Warriors again.

The 1980s Browns actually went on several runs that were (by all accounts since I don't really remember) fun to experience and certainly nothing was given to them.* Those Browns teams also had opportunities to take the next step, and although they also had that one team that was their ultimate road block, it wasn't as if they were underdogs every time they matched up. I think there are other reasons why those 1980s Browns teams might be considered darlings, but in other important ways the situation is quite different. The Cavaliers are expected to make the NBA Finals, and rightly so, and for a city that has been bridesmaids so many times, that's simply not enough, especially with the best player in the game on the roster.



*The Cavaliers are 36-5 over the past three seasons in the Eastern Conference Playoffs. The Browns won three playoff games in their three AFC runner-up seasons by an average of 8 points.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 05:02:32 PM by Clevelander17 »

Online audidave

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8588 on: July 03, 2017, 05:07:46 PM »
I think the Cavs may be alright if they can get Derrick Williams to play up to his athletic ability.  To me that means training camp and a lot of time finding minutes for him in the regular season. He has to see now what it takes for players on a championship team to stay at that level and the sacrifices they make.  He has the exact physique to be able to guard Durant.

Offline bumsquare

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8589 on: July 03, 2017, 05:22:00 PM »
I think it's  also overlooked that we should be expecting improvement from Kyrie over the next 2-3 years as he enters his prime. It's not guaranteed, but players generally have their best seasons in their age 26-29 seasons.

Offline CleveFan

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8590 on: July 06, 2017, 12:38:35 AM »
Shakin my head - Griff is gone, no replacement and the Cavs are bragging about resigning Korver - (a no show on offense in the finals and a bad defensive player) and now Richard Jefferson!!! - Guess we'll have the oldest bench in the league.  And for those that are penciling in the Cavs for the finals again - consider that we've all gotten used to an injury- free LeBron. But what if that changed and he went down (especially late in the year?)  We've got to take some scoring pressure off LBJ by adding one more real game changer. Kryie's generally brilliant (well, most of the time) but Love sometimes disappears offensively in big games - I really think we need one more major scoring threat -  Now that PG and Butler have gone elsewhere, I'm rooting that Carmello signs on. Talk about adding some firepower... I know he's had some "issues" in terms of defensive effort, but playing alongside LeBron would take care of any "attitude problem".  Cavs have to get better - not just hope for better results from the same team.  Being champs of a clearly weaker conference is not what you settle for with the best player of a generation - 1 title in 10 seasons with LeBron here - not good enough.

Offline BelievelandD1

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8591 on: July 06, 2017, 08:14:51 AM »
I think Carmelo and Wade both have a shot to be bought out. We will see if they want to win or not.  We can't rely on injuries for the Cavs winning a title, have to assume full strength. And the 2 minute meltdown happened, that's the reality and the warriors were sitting here waiting to win that game. They will be waiting again next year.  You have to play 4 perfect games to beat the warriors. The Cavs played one this past finals and frankly 3 of the others were nowhere near perfect.

If they can land melo I will believe they are improved from last year because hey can score more and have a body that might be able to be inspired to play D that can disrupt Durant.

It's clear Gilbert has lost money going over the luxury tax the last two years and now is feeling it. He may be a good business owner (maybe) but he is all over the place as an owner. Clearly valued the title at any expense and now that he sees his Cavs income statement two years in a row is back tracking a bit. Low balled griffin and now billups and is rumored to ship out shumpert just to shave money.  No consistency and identity as an owner = a mess
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 08:16:18 AM by BelievelandD1 »

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8592 on: July 06, 2017, 09:26:27 AM »
Wtf are the Cavs doing?  They signed a 36-year old Korver to a THREE YEAR deal??? LOL.

Let's bring in 35-year old Jose Calderon to back up Kyrie?

James Jones might retire...which is utterly meaningless, but ok.

Who's the GM?  Gilbert?  LeBron?

I don't see where Melo fits in - will he come off the bench?  Would he start at the 4 if they move Love?

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8593 on: July 06, 2017, 10:02:09 AM »
Shakin my head - Griff is gone, no replacement and the Cavs are bragging about resigning Korver - (a no show on offense in the finals and a bad defensive player) and now Richard Jefferson!!! - Guess we'll have the oldest bench in the league.  And for those that are penciling in the Cavs for the finals again - consider that we've all gotten used to an injury- free LeBron. But what if that changed and he went down (especially late in the year?)  We've got to take some scoring pressure off LBJ by adding one more real game changer. Kryie's generally brilliant (well, most of the time) but Love sometimes disappears offensively in big games - I really think we need one more major scoring threat -  Now that PG and Butler have gone elsewhere, I'm rooting that Carmello signs on. Talk about adding some firepower... I know he's had some "issues" in terms of defensive effort, but playing alongside LeBron would take care of any "attitude problem".  Cavs have to get better - not just hope for better results from the same team.  Being champs of a clearly weaker conference is not what you settle for with the best player of a generation - 1 title in 10 seasons with LeBron here - not good enough.

No, no.  We need defense more than we need offense.  We have two 25ppg+ scorers and a 20ppg scorer.  Since everyone is so freaked out and panicking about GSW, how about we try something novel..... like not allow them to score close to 70 points in every first half?  That would be a good place to start.
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Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8594 on: July 14, 2017, 09:08:45 PM »
Is anyone here familiar with how the new collective bargaining agreement
works regarding the new 16th & 17th roster spot two-way agreements.
I read somewhere that these 2 spots will be able to spend 45 days with the
NBA team.  So does that mean that somewhere along the way rosters
expand past the 15 players or is it something else.
Are they still dressing 13 with 2 inactive as in the past or has that increased? 

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8595 on: July 17, 2017, 04:39:32 PM »
LeBron James reportedly frustrated and concerned by Cavs' lack of offseason moves
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lebron-james-reportedly-frustrated-and-concerned-by-cavs-lack-of-offseason-moves/
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Online sir2gees

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8596 on: July 17, 2017, 04:41:19 PM »
What does LeBron expect? The Cavs are capped out with no assets. We all knew this was coming.

Offline BelievelandD1

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8597 on: July 17, 2017, 04:47:00 PM »
What I expected was to move Love for paul George or Jimmy butler. Have to get someone athletic enough to guard Durant. Now u have to hope for a melo/Wade buyout so we can get some athleticism on the cheap

Online DarkandStormy

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8598 on: July 17, 2017, 04:48:53 PM »
Wade buyout so we can get some athleticism

Does not compute.

Online clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8599 on: July 17, 2017, 04:51:54 PM »
I believe the Butler trade would have happened had not Gilbert stupidly fired Griffin the day it was to happen.  LeBron was reportedly very high on Griffin and this just created more problems.  Gilbert is being portrayed nationally as a nutcase owner who has created the image of a franchise in disarray.  This no doubt scared away Billups and, word is, rumors surfaced of LeBron leaving, as the article notes, following the Griffin firing.

Offline pontiac51

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8600 on: July 17, 2017, 05:51:50 PM »
I believe the Butler trade would have happened had not Gilbert stupidly fired Griffin the day it was to happen.  LeBron was reportedly very high on Griffin and this just created more problems.  Gilbert is being portrayed nationally as a nutcase owner who has created the image of a franchise in disarray.  This no doubt scared away Billups and, word is, rumors surfaced of LeBron leaving, as the article notes, following the Griffin firing.
The bottom line is that the Bulls, like the Pacers, didn't want to trade with a team within the division and conference. Griffin wouldn't have changed that. And while he did a decent job here, a lot of you people have him way overrated!! After all, LeBron and Kyrie fell into his lap (he had absolutely nothing LeBron coming back), and he made the easy trade for Kevin Love. Any GM would look good with these players. Griffin was just in the right place at the right time. He's really not all that special!!

Online clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8601 on: July 17, 2017, 06:08:24 PM »
I believe the Butler trade would have happened had not Gilbert stupidly fired Griffin the day it was to happen.  LeBron was reportedly very high on Griffin and this just created more problems.  Gilbert is being portrayed nationally as a nutcase owner who has created the image of a franchise in disarray.  This no doubt scared away Billups and, word is, rumors surfaced of LeBron leaving, as the article notes, following the Griffin firing.
The bottom line is that the Bulls, like the Pacers, didn't want to trade with a team within the division and conference. Griffin wouldn't have changed that. And while he did a decent job here, a lot of you people have him way overrated!! After all, LeBron and Kyrie fell into his lap (he had absolutely nothing LeBron coming back), and he made the easy trade for Kevin Love. Any GM would look good with these players. Griffin was just in the right place at the right time. He's really not all that special!!

I'm not saying Griffin was God, but you downplay him way too much.  And the fact is you simply don't fire a GM right at the beginning of free agency when we needed a GM in place.  And this free agency was critical for us because the Warriors showed the world how much better they are than us. It was a bonehead move and indicated that the organization is/was unstable.

Offline BelievelandD1

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8602 on: July 17, 2017, 08:58:32 PM »
Wade buyout so we can get some athleticism

Does not compute.

Don't discount a dwyane Wade who is the 6th option. He's the type of vet that would come in and make huge playoff plays. He can still play D too

Offline pontiac51

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8603 on: July 17, 2017, 09:34:41 PM »
I believe the Butler trade would have happened had not Gilbert stupidly fired Griffin the day it was to happen.  LeBron was reportedly very high on Griffin and this just created more problems.  Gilbert is being portrayed nationally as a nutcase owner who has created the image of a franchise in disarray.  This no doubt scared away Billups and, word is, rumors surfaced of LeBron leaving, as the article notes, following the Griffin firing.
The bottom line is that the Bulls, like the Pacers, didn't want to trade with a team within the division and conference. Griffin wouldn't have changed that. And while he did a decent job here, a lot of you people have him way overrated!! After all, LeBron and Kyrie fell into his lap (he had absolutely nothing LeBron coming back), and he made the easy trade for Kevin Love. Any GM would look good with these players. Griffin was just in the right place at the right time. He's really not all that special!!

I'm not saying Griffin was God, but you downplay him way too much.  And the fact is you simply don't fire a GM right at the beginning of free agency when we needed a GM in place.  And this free agency was critical for us because the Warriors showed the world how much better they are than us. It was a bonehead move and indicated that the organization is/was unstable.
What I'm telling you is that he had little to do with the Cavs winning the title because he basically inherited a championship caliber roster. And you don't know the circumstances of why he was let go. I read where he wanted to be one of the highest paid GMs. If that's the case, I don't blame Gilbert for saying adios!! As far as free agency goes, because of Griffin's moves, the Cavs obviously don't have the cap space to sign any meaningful free agents. And because we are a long way from the trading deadline, there is plenty of time to improve the roster. So let's stop all of this "Griffin-to-the-hall-of-fame" talk!! He just happened to be the GM when LeBron decided to come back!! You are giving him WAY WAY too much credit!!!

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8604 on: July 17, 2017, 10:02:02 PM »
You're obviously not hearing what I'm saying at all.  This isn't a referendum on David Griffin, it's about the appearance of instability of the franchise.  Whether you like it or not, David Griffin has a strong reputation around the league and received many votes for Executive of the Year, twice.  He didn't just inherent LeBron and Kyrie, he had the balls to fire David Blatt during the middle of a post-finals season.  But I don't care of Daffy Duck was GM, if you fire him right in the beginning or middle of sensitive negotiations to bring one of the true impact players of the League to Cleveland, you're a fool; and in this case, the fool is Dan Gilbert.  He shot his own franchise in the foot.

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8605 on: July 18, 2017, 06:21:34 AM »
A big center with strong defensive skills is what they need, more than anything else.  Bogut stays healthy and they win last year.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them talk to Phil Jackson.  He's like Hargrove, better at getting the most out of a great team than building one.
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Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8606 on: July 18, 2017, 08:49:32 AM »
Click bait
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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8607 on: July 21, 2017, 03:48:30 PM »
Uh oh.  Kyrie has requested a trade.

Offline Hootenany

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8608 on: July 21, 2017, 03:49:15 PM »
Who is steering the Cavs right now?  Because they're driving us off the road.

Kyrie Irving requesting trade out of Cleveland to find bigger role

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20124505/kyrie-irving-seeking-trade-cleveland-cavaliers

Kyrie Irving is ready to end his run with the Cleveland Cavaliers, as league sources told ESPN that the guard has asked the team to trade him.

The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to go play in a situation where he can be a more focal point and no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said.

Irving's agent Jeff Wechsler would not confirm or deny whether Irving asked for a trade.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Cavs Discussion
« Reply #8609 on: July 21, 2017, 03:58:25 PM »
WTF
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