Author Topic: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News  (Read 523306 times)

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Online Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2520 on: August 28, 2017, 01:30:11 PM »
Cumberland Development to break ground for second building on downtown Cleveland lakefront

http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/08/cumberland_development_to_brea.html#incart_river_home

Glad to see progress down on the lake front, but this is extremely underwhelming... and good luck finding folks to rent at $3,700/month


They won't need any luck to get these filled. 

Online StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2521 on: August 28, 2017, 01:30:18 PM »
Maybe I'm not reading this article right, but it says the building will cost $12 million to build 16 apartments.  At rents of $3,750/month, it will take 16 years to collect $12 million in rent off 16 apartments.  That 12 million figure seems extremely high for a building this size. 

Also retail and office space.

[KJP beat me to it]
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 01:30:53 PM by StrapHanger »
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Offline FrqntFlyr

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2522 on: August 28, 2017, 01:38:43 PM »
and good luck finding folks to rent at $3,700/month

won't be a problem

Online Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2523 on: August 28, 2017, 01:42:35 PM »
^a couple hundred Jones Day lawyers just a five minute walk away (with 25 year old lawyers earning 160,000 to start).

Online Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2524 on: August 28, 2017, 01:47:45 PM »
What I find amazing is that financing has yet to be finalized and Cumberland is fronting what it eventually hopes to finance.  This is a perfect example of how hard it is to get projects like this off the ground.



Offline E Rocc

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2525 on: August 28, 2017, 01:54:53 PM »
The lakefront doesn't have to be Flats East Bank: Take Two. That would be terrible. We do have to better connect the attractions we currently have, Rock Hall, Science Center, Mather, Voinovich Park, Stadium, etc. and that's going to take some planning ingenuity. But getting people to the water isn't rocket science. It's our natural desire to be near the water, and our lake has been fenced off for way too long. The locks are all rusted. It's time we just open the gate.   

Not until you can commit the resources needed to make sure that public access is indeed safe.

Beulah Park and our neighbors at Villa Beach (not the park, the neighborhood) have sporadic problems with what amounts to trespassers, as both neighborhoods are built around private parks.  Inevitably, this amounts to problems with litter (often related to drugs or other illicit activities), uncleaned dog poop, loose dogs in general, etc.  We don't have these issues when we don't have the trespassers.  If the trespassers are ignored, eventually thefts and break ins begin.

Villa Beach Park (the Metropark) is large and reasonably well maintained, closed off at night, and of course the Metroparks have their own police force.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 03:08:15 PM by E Rocc »
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Offline nab70

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2526 on: August 28, 2017, 02:19:10 PM »
In the article they mention a single story retail connector between the Rock Hall and the Science Center. Have any renderings of that been released?

Online Groyd

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2527 on: August 28, 2017, 03:18:48 PM »
 We are still just the beginning of the new lakefront developments. We'll see what happens north and east of the browns stadium, but be patient.
All cities are beautiful, but the beauty is grim.”  ― Christopher Morley

Online PIB Guy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2528 on: August 28, 2017, 03:53:36 PM »
What's the retail rent?
Not sure, but one of them is Cumberland, so I'm not counting that. It just amazes me how some projects hit financing snags that seem extremely viable.  Then, there's a building like this that costs 12 MIL to build, and there's 16 total units.  I would love to know the appraised value of this building once complete. 

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2529 on: August 28, 2017, 04:46:04 PM »
Not sure, but one of them is Cumberland, so I'm not counting that. It just amazes me how some projects hit financing snags that seem extremely viable.  Then, there's a building like this that costs 12 MIL to build, and there's 16 total units.  I would love to know the appraised value of this building once complete. 

You should. They are likely paying rent to their subsidiary Cumberland Lakefront LLC which will help retire the financing.
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Online clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2530 on: August 29, 2017, 11:37:10 AM »
I'm just happy the smaller 16-unit mixed use building is finally moving forward and should compliment the Nuevo restaurant, which in itself is a plus.  Momentum is important.  I guess I never totally bought in to the idea TC could build all the stuff proposed: 1,000+ apt units, boatloads of retail, offices and even a school on this site next to the stadium.  Maybe someday, but not in one fell swoop.

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2531 on: August 29, 2017, 06:42:14 PM »
Construction began today. Interesting tidbit here. Pase 2 could be announced later this year. http://fox8.com/2017/08/29/construction-begins-on-luxury-apartments-on-9th-street-pier/

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2532 on: August 29, 2017, 07:10:36 PM »
I thought the groundbreaking today was for Phase 2? With Phase 3 being the retail connector to the Rock Hall?

The big stuff north of the stadium falls into a whole 'nother category. Hope they're right about being close to making an announcement about that, whatever phase it's called.
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Online Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2533 on: September 05, 2017, 09:19:25 AM »
So who's the anchor tenant going to be?

Harbor Verandas project is next step in lakefront community living downtown

Design work for the third phase of the plan—a one-story retail and restaurant building that will connect the Rock Hall and the Science Center along the Harbor’s promenade—is already underway, says Pace. “On the harbor side, you will see storefronts,” he explains. “On the Erieside [Avenue] level, which is actually 20 feet higher, you will see a park on a green roof.”

In the meantime, Pace may be involved in the next development project to complete his neighborhood vision. Plans are in the works for a proposed 18-acre development just north of the Science Center that would include market-rate houses, retail, office space, and even a school. “This is a big phase,” he says. “We hope to sign an anchor tenant before the end of the year.”

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/breaking-ground/HarborVerandas090517.aspx

Offline dastler

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2534 on: September 05, 2017, 01:21:18 PM »
So who's the anchor tenant going to be?

Downtown really needs a Target or something similar. It would probably work better in tower city, but even having it far flung out by the lake would be a godsend for downtown residents.

Offline DeanSheen

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2535 on: September 07, 2017, 10:08:45 PM »
A Target downtown on the Lake?

Sounds horrible.


Online cle

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2536 on: September 13, 2017, 01:13:03 PM »
For the anchor tenant, Pace is talking about a large office user, not a retail anchor. I have no inside info, but I could imagine Sherwin Williams wanting to move there. It would be great though to get a company from outside the region to move to town.

Online Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2537 on: September 13, 2017, 01:48:53 PM »
^If Sherwin Williams actually moves to the lakefront this would be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the Jacob Group is run by some of the most incompetent people in town.

Online surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2538 on: September 13, 2017, 09:32:50 PM »
For the anchor tenant, Pace is talking about a large office user, not a retail anchor. I have no inside info, but I could imagine Sherwin Williams wanting to move there. It would be great though to get a company from outside the region to move to town.

Yadda yadda yadda.....Burke....yadda....height restrictions.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2539 on: September 13, 2017, 11:22:39 PM »
Yadda yadda yadda.....Burke....yadda....height restrictions.

A headquarters doesn't mean a skyscraper. I assume you've seen their conceptual development plan that was approved by the city? It's probably large enough in terms of square footage to accommodate Sherwin-Williams.

They had recently listed on loopnet office space for lease of at least 750,000 square feet. However I do not see that listing anymore. Hmmm.....
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Offline KJP

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Offline DevonianShale

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2542 on: September 14, 2017, 04:59:37 PM »
Construction fencing up around the site for Harbor Verandas. (Sept. 12, 2017)


Offline Matches

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2543 on: September 19, 2017, 04:04:15 PM »
Green Ribbon Coalition touts "land bridge" for downtown lakefront instead of Rosales design

CLEVELAND, Ohio - The city and Cuyahoga County have been mostly mum for two years on whether the iconic pedestrian bridge designed by Boston architect Miguel Rosales for the downtown lakefront will get built.

But that's not stopping the Green Ribbon Coalition, a nonprofit group that advocates for better connections and development along Lake Erie, from striding into the silence with a proposal of its own.

The group has been circulating a rough conceptual plan for a lakefront "land bridge" that would extend diagonally northeast from the north end of the downtown Mall to North Coast Harbor, traversing railroad tracks and parking lots that now separate the business district from the waterfront.

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2017/09/green_ribbon_coalition_touts_l.html

This is a meritorious idea that would cost roughly 3 times as much as the proposed Rosales bridge. 
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Offline ML11

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2544 on: September 19, 2017, 04:46:22 PM »
The $100 million estimate seems optimistic based on the size of what they're proposing, but I'd rather wait and spend significantly more on something (potentially) transformative to this part of the lakefront, than settle for a 14 foot-wide bridge. 

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2545 on: September 19, 2017, 05:42:06 PM »
"A conceptual plan for a proposed lakefront intermodal transit hub. The image, dating to early 2017, was provided to The Plain Dealer by an anonymous source."

Three guesses, anyone?

Offline jbdad

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2546 on: September 19, 2017, 05:52:56 PM »
I love the look of the 1000' footbridge, but from my perspective it's a three-season, partial solution.  The Land bridge that I've seen in Seattle completely masks I-5, providing a pedestrian friendly park.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2547 on: September 19, 2017, 07:07:35 PM »
Welcome, jbdad!
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Online clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2548 on: September 19, 2017, 07:18:49 PM »
It sure would be great of the New NOACA would throw it's considerable weight behind the inter-modal transit hub.  Maybe then, contrary to the paragraph in today's Steve Litt article, officials would be talking about it.

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2549 on: September 19, 2017, 08:39:38 PM »
I love the look of the 1000' footbridge, but from my perspective it's a three-season, partial solution.  The Land bridge that I've seen in Seattle completely masks I-5, providing a pedestrian friendly park.

The plans include an enclosed walkway that would presumably be more climate controlled.
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Online surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2550 on: September 19, 2017, 08:50:58 PM »
Props to Green Ribbon (including some all star UO folks) for proposing an interesting alternative.

I think the bridge is visually interesting but very much lacking in practicality. The bridge just doesn't seem to integrate well with the much needed NC Transit Center. By the way, glad to hear the purported support from Jackson, great news.

I'll go ahead and dust off the Lakefront Convention Center proposal, because once I saw it that made it hard for me to settle for anything else.   

Offline davit

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2551 on: September 19, 2017, 11:09:43 PM »

It is worth revisiting the proposed designs from the 2009 lakefront station Cleveland Design Competition. The 2nd place design is very similar to the latest design proposal from Green Ribbon.


Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2552 on: September 20, 2017, 12:05:21 AM »
I'd rather make the area as visually appealing as possible. Instead of a winding suspension bridge that spans over the rails and roadway, why not bridge over it with as much land cover as possible... wouldn't it make sense to enhance the environment, covering over mass transportation eye-sores? One thing I like about the Nexus plan; which I know it's part of a design competition, is that it covers and hides the peripheral vision of both the highway and the rails; all while updating the station which desperately needs aesthetic attention. I know the station is basically federal because it's Amtrak, but isn't it also connected via blue/green rta lines? So do we even need federal approval to rebuild the station?

Currently I'm all in favor of bridging land over roadways and railways. Is there any way we could build over these transits to where they become like another tower city?

Also I love tunnels. I recently went over to Paris, France and they have a sub-city highway that runs through the financial district of the city. It even encompasses a metro line. It's the A14 which turns into N13 and it goes straight to the Arc De Triomphe. Paris did something right hiding their motorways. Good for expansion when cities run out of room. This being said, can we just completely bridge over i-90 turning it into another green ribbon? I'd also be in favor or ridding i-90 of the super frequent exits through the campus district. Its something we don't need right before smashing into Dead-Mans curve. I think this would help lakefront access. A good lakefront is one thing, accessibility and walkability are another thing.

*sorry if I spewed off topic*
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 12:06:35 AM by tastybunns »
Don't waste my development money...

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2553 on: September 20, 2017, 08:59:30 AM »
I'd rather make the area as visually appealing as possible. Instead of a winding suspension bridge that spans over the rails and roadway, why not bridge over it with as much land cover as possible... wouldn't it make sense to enhance the environment, covering over mass transportation eye-sores? One thing I like about the Nexus plan; which I know it's part of a design competition, is that it covers and hides the peripheral vision of both the highway and the rails; all while updating the station which desperately needs aesthetic attention. I know the station is basically federal because it's Amtrak, but isn't it also connected via blue/green rta lines? So do we even need federal approval to rebuild the station?

This project won't happen without federal funds. And Amtrak isn't an influencing factor here. It owns no property in the project area. It does have an easement, as does GCRTA. But unlike GCRTA, Amtrak has never paid a dime of rent or other compensation for its easement. The Amtrak station sits here because the city wanted them here rather than at Cleveland Union Terminal when Amtrak's Lake Shore service returned in 1975 after a three-year hiatus. No compensation was ever demanded by the city in 1975 so Amtrak never paid anything. However, to hedge against the city changing its mind, Amtrak purchased a strip of land in the fading East 26th Rail Yard that was used for storing and staging iron ore jennies, which is where Amtrak could relocate its Cleveland station just in case. That site no longer works for Amtrak as it is east of where Amtrak's two routes split; any Amtrak station has to be at or west of the walkway between the North Point office building and its parking garage. BTW, the portion of the yard closest to South Marginal Road is being considered as the new location for the Cleveland outlet mall.

And yes, considering this is a significant transportation project that is likely to use federal funds, the project development process will have to follow the National Environmental Policy Act. That means that any final site selected as well as preliminary and final designs will have to be approved by all federal agencies having jurisdiction including the Federal Highway Administration, Federal Railroad Administration, Federal Transit Administration and possibly others as well.
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