Author Topic: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News  (Read 498344 times)

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Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2005, 02:30:44 PM »
I meant conservative in the number of units they are proposing.  Of course that number can always go up, but I'd hate to see the whole lakefront be developed at a relatively low density (to what it could support) and then run out of land to develop more without having to tear into things.  But yes, the Lakefront Plan as a whole is one of the most ambitious undertakings I know of.  Certainly the most ambitious in Greater Cleveland.

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2005, 08:27:54 AM »
CLEVELAND - Mayor Jane Campbell unveiled new sketches and updated progress on the city's plan to remake the lakefront.
Campbell is updating efforts to bring Clevelanders to the water.

$100 million has already spent on projects like the Key 55 housing complex and walkways near Voinovich Park.

Waterfront living at Battery Park and plans to make the west Shoreway a boulevard are moving along.

And, the Mather Shipping Museum's is moving this weekend. It will dock next to the science center.

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=41033



did they mean Quay 55????

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2005, 10:58:55 AM »
"Quay" is pronounced "key."  This was the press conference I wrote about on September 20th...more details on the city's website!

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2006, 10:33:26 AM »
There will be a design subcommittee meeting on the Shoreway project coming up at 8 a.m. Wednesday on the access points. It will be held at City Hall, in Room 6 in the basement. The public is invited to attend.

Subcommittee members are debating where the access points should be on the reconfigured Shoreway. As many of you know, the Shoreway will become a reduced speed boulevard with intersections, landscaping etc.

For more information, go to http://www.innerbelt.org/Lakefrontwest/Lakefronthome.htm
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Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2006, 08:11:21 AM »
I could not make it to this.
Did anybody go? Any info?

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 08:12:11 AM by musky »

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2006, 10:58:22 AM »
From the April 26th minutes, posted on the Innerbelt Lakefront ODOT page:

http://www.innerbelt.org/Lakefrontwest/Lakefronthome.htm


Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2007, 07:46:45 AM »
Litt Blog:

Cleveland picks strong team to design North Coast Harbor pedestrian bridge
Posted by Steven LittÉ
August 27, 2007 17:11PM


Local governments rarely reach for pathbreaking design excellence when they hire architects and engineers. But the first highly visible project launched by Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson since he took office in January could be a departure from the norm.

Last week, a selection committee composed of city officials picked a design team with real international firepower to design a proposed $6.1 million pedestrian bridge at North Coast Harbor in downtown Cleveland...

More at: http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2007/08/_local_governments_rarely_reac.html
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 10:53:54 AM by McCleveland »

Offline the pope

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2007, 07:48:34 AM »
oh, a curvy suspension bridge, how fun.

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2007, 08:58:06 AM »
Excellent selection Frank Jackson.  Impressive that the city FINALLY recognizes the importantance of design.
"When you stand at the corner of Euclid Avenue and East Ninth Street in Cleveland, you stand at one of the busiest corners in the world -- and in the heart of a shopping district known far and wide for its many fine shops."

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2007, 10:55:28 AM »
You know, for someone in the architecture field and a person who lives in the Cleveland region, you sure portray in image of ignorance when a firm, team or design does not meet your standards. I am sure I do not have to explain the public bidding process to you that is required by law.

Offline jpop

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2007, 11:39:41 AM »
Excellent selection Frank Jackson.  Impressive that the city FINALLY recognizes the importantance of design.

Thank you. :) I agree. I'm excited about this project.

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2007, 12:20:10 PM »
You know, for someone in the architecture field and a person who lives in the Cleveland region, you sure portray in image of ignorance when a firm, team or design does not meet your standards. I am sure I do not have to explain the public bidding process to you that is required by law.


Why don't you go ahead and reread my post musky.  I think this will be a GOOD project because they chose a designer based on skills, not political connections or a misguided architect selection, and I applaud Frank Jackson for this.  Not sure what crawled up your a$$, but this isn't the thread to be lecturing me on my negative opinions of local architecture.  I'm down for this one.  Just because the selection process is flawed into being forced to use the lowest bidder for public projects, that is no excuse for subpar design.  If you and CSU want to continue accepting C+ architecture, that's your problem.  Not sure why you brought this up here, but the negative side of my opions is recently reserved for the CSU Student Center, we can chat over on that thread if you'd like to continue your thoughts on what you think I should think good design is, and my personal compitency level.  Check that, I couldn't give a damn what you think.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 12:23:02 PM by w28th »
"When you stand at the corner of Euclid Avenue and East Ninth Street in Cleveland, you stand at one of the busiest corners in the world -- and in the heart of a shopping district known far and wide for its many fine shops."

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2007, 12:26:12 PM »
um, yeah for the bridge!

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2007, 12:30:47 PM »
I do not question what you think is good design. And usually I agree with you.
I get upset when you blame the city, CSU, other public agency for picking a design that is more often then not, chosen due to legal reasons.

If Joe's Floor Refinishing and Bridge Design Company out bids a firm founded by DaVinci, then we have to accept that process and the design that comes with it, or change the process. That process is currently in the hands of those downstate. Don't like it? Change it!

And btw, I have made my dislike of the student center clear in the CSU thread - and I have no say in what IS chosen, that would be... THE PROCESS

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2007, 12:41:30 PM »
^Design issues aside, there are sound public policy reasons begin the bidding process on public projects.  Among other things, to protect taxpayer pocket books and hopefully prevent fraud and collusion.  These statutes are nationwide and were years in the making. 

Offline Avogadro

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2007, 12:54:40 PM »
One of the things that a public entity can do, under the O.R.C., is to have a two-tiered process with a Request for Qualifications and a subsequent Request for Proposals.

In the RFQ, you cast a wide net and set a general set of standards pertinent to the eventual project, without worrying about the eventual cost.  That way, the J'sFR&BDCo can get weeded out early.  The selected firms then would compete for the RFP, for which cost will be a major criteria, but not the only one.

Adding an RFQ generally adds at least three months to the process, but done well, you have a somewhat better chance of getting a competent and imaginative designer.  And, if you can get the RFP scoresheet to put more weight on design than cost, then a great designer ought to rise to the top (provided that the contract is under budget).

Unfortunately, there is a lot of pressure to contain costs, which oftentimes means that design takes a back seat.  But, with a more enlightened design culture, even the politicos could loosen the purse strings a bit (while still maintaining the legal nature of the process).
Christopher Alvarado, Slavic Village Development

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2007, 01:00:19 PM »
I understand.

So how does this explain the mess with the Breuer Tower?

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2007, 01:07:41 PM »
I blamed nobody for anything on this thread.  I realize the flaws in the process, I really do, but that is no excuse for public projects.  If anything I'm being critical of people in my own field.  Architects for the most part are slugs when it comes to design, but for some reason you come out and attack me and and say,
"you sure portray in image of ignorance when a firm, team or design does not meet your standards."
Hey man, all I do here is express my opinions and expect better results in a time where contemporary architecture and urban design are changing the WORLD and the way people live and interact with space.  That's what I expect, and that's what we should all expect.  And we very rarely get it.
I question why the hell you are bringing this up on this thread, maybe the one thread where I am absolutely in favor of what is going on.
"When you stand at the corner of Euclid Avenue and East Ninth Street in Cleveland, you stand at one of the busiest corners in the world -- and in the heart of a shopping district known far and wide for its many fine shops."

Offline Avogadro

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2007, 01:13:04 PM »
So how does this explain the mess with the Breuer Tower?

Boy, it really doesn't.  I'm afraid I wasn't privy to much of the goings-on with that one.  My understanding is that the final product (if it ever happens) will probably not bear much resemblance to what we've seen.  I'm not even sure if there was a RFQ before the RFP.  I don't think that there was, however.  It's not a method that is used often, but it should be.
Christopher Alvarado, Slavic Village Development

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2007, 01:19:30 PM »
w28th:
Ok

Avogadro:
Thanks

Offline superceleb

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2007, 01:31:18 PM »
This sounds pretty cool. I love the Liberty Bridge in Greenville.

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2007, 01:35:20 PM »
The bridge in Greenville, S.C. is unbelievable (as is the entire city). Hopefully this will spur some development down on the harbor.


Offline jpop

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2007, 01:51:24 PM »
I blamed nobody for anything on this thread.  I realize the flaws in the process, I really do, but that is no excuse for public projects.  If anything I'm being critical of people in my own field.  Architects for the most part are slugs when it comes to design, but for some reason you come out and attack me and and say,
"you sure portray in image of ignorance when a firm, team or design does not meet your standards."
Hey man, all I do here is express my opinions and expect better results in a time where contemporary architecture and urban design are changing the WORLD and the way people live and interact with space.  That's what I expect, and that's what we should all expect.  And we very rarely get it.
I question why the hell you are bringing this up on this thread, maybe the one thread where I am absolutely in favor of what is going on.

If anyone agrees with you, I do. Which shouldn't be a surprise.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2007, 01:53:09 PM »
w28th:
Ok

Avogadro:
Thanks

Aw, c'mon!! I want to see a fight! A BLOODBATH!! 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 01:53:53 PM by KJP »
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Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2007, 02:02:46 PM »
Sorry. Not worth it.
Something about arguing with architectural students/recent grads that makes it all futile.

Offline cle2032

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2007, 06:27:45 PM »
Hey now, do I take offense to that?   :|

I realize that a 16 week studio project is quite the Disney version of a real life project but I think it's unfair to discount the opinion of a recent grad/arch. student because we don't have the jaded outlook on politics.

I think we need to stop this bs in the past few posts!  I'm sorry but as far as design goes in Cleveland, we all have A LOT to learn.
Vive la Cleveland!

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #61 on: September 01, 2007, 07:25:41 PM »
You are absolutely correct.
I apologize for over generalizing. Not all architecture students are arrogant. And not all planning students are over-the-top-optimistic. My statements were based on anecdotal incidents from the past four years, as opposed to a lifetime's career.

Yes, you are so very right. Everyone always needs A LOT to learn
« Last Edit: September 02, 2007, 06:27:00 PM by musky »

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #62 on: September 02, 2007, 06:25:34 PM »
(updated article from last week)

pd:

Cleveland makes excellent choice for North Coast bridge
Sunday, September 02, 2007
by Steven Litt

Hooray for the city of Cleveland. The city's top choice for a design team to create a new $6.1 million pedestrian bridge at North Coast Harbor clearly was the best of the six that sought the job -- and the one most likely to produce an outstanding result.

The winning team will be led by the local office of Wilbur Smith Associates, a national firm. But the star on the squad is Miguel Rosales, a 46-year-old native of Guatemala who has devoted his career to improving the design of bridges in the United States...

more at: http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/plaindealer/steven_litt/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-0/1188636818161750.xml&coll=2&thispage=1
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 10:55:14 AM by McCleveland »

Offline cle2032

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2007, 08:40:49 AM »
Anyways... :-)

I spent the day yesterday with the family (Long Islander and Las Vegan??? on the Goodtime III and at the North Coast Harbor and the place was buzzing with activity!  Nice to see!  I'll post pics from the fun weekend in CLE shortly.
Vive la Cleveland!

Offline FerrariEnzo

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2007, 12:06:54 AM »
I am excited to see this selection, will it have to raise as a result of it enclosing the launch site for the good time III or will tht move?
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Offline ragarcia

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2007, 09:52:58 PM »
I guess I'll be ignorant one here, but at least from the pictures on their website, I don't see what the big deal is about this bridge...is it because we are so starved for "cool" things here in the states that we give this bridge more credit than it deserves?

Like I said, maybe I'm just ignorant or maybe I just can't see its magnificence from the limited pictures on the site, but to me the covered bridges in Ashtabula are cooler or at least more significant than what I see in the pictures.

Since I know you guys know more about this than me, please edumacate me about what makes this bridge great.

Thanks!

Offline audidave

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2007, 10:17:33 PM »
My take is that this will make it more likely for big events like the Gravity Games or X-Games to come to the Northcoast Harbor.  A bridge helps enhance the area by allowing people to move around much easier.  It gets very tight walking alongside the museums during big events that are using the whole area.  This is also one of the first items to come to fruition in the Lakefront redevelopment plan which a lot of people had input into.  Plus in a city and state of unique bridges, this should add yet another one.

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2007, 12:59:58 AM »
Shouldn't it be noted that neither bridge shown are necessarily anything like what will get built.  These were images of existing bridges designed by the selected firm, no?  The span of this bridge appears likely just 150 feet or so, less than half of the Liberty Bridge.
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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2007, 10:39:45 AM »
Correct, I think audidave was just noting that the firm selected didnt knock his socks off with regards to past projects.  I still am excited that at least a firm that has a little artistic creativity was given the job.  Thats all.
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Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2007, 10:40:33 AM »


Science center to build walkway to Steamship Mather
Sunday, September 09, 2007
Tom Breckenridge


The Great Lakes Science Center will build a $3.3 million link to its floating museum nearby.

The Cleveland City Planning Commission on Friday approved the design for the 400-foot sheltered walkway between the science center and the Steamship William G. Mather Museum, docked in North Coast Harbor.

The Planning Commission panned the design in July, largely because of a permanent opening in the walkway that, at 5 feet wide, was too small for bikers and walkers who stream through the area.

The center's new design includes a permanent 11-foot-wide opening. Three larger sections of the walkway would open, weather permitting, with the use of sliding and overhead doors...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 10:58:35 AM by McCleveland »

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