Author Topic: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News  (Read 523169 times)

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Offline Matches

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2415 on: April 03, 2017, 05:12:44 PM »
I'm not sure the topography of the area would allow the ball diamonds to simply be shifted over, but I wanted to post these aerial views of the area to give a little perspective.

The current site is below. This illustrates how isolated and disjointed any attempt at parkland would be from the lakefront, and any attempt at development whatsever, would be from pretty much anything else:


Taking the map posted in the Cleveland.com article as a guide, I've roughly sketched the relocation of the highway and the extension of Marginal as they have proposed.  It looks like KJP's plan is more aggressive than this, and aims to create more park and development land north of the Shoreway.


On the other side of E. 72nd, here is the current state, with Gordon park basically completely severed from the lakefront by the Shoreway and exit ramps and loops.


This crude sketch shows how shifting the Shoreway towards the railroad tracks creates a more contiguous greenspace, what looks like a restored Doan Brook outlet to the lake.
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Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2416 on: April 03, 2017, 05:16:04 PM »
^ Is there even a single car on that highway?

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2417 on: April 03, 2017, 05:41:02 PM »
If we're going to go to the massive effort to move the highway, we should go the extra mile and start the southward move at East 55th.  That would require moving Horizon Academy and WJW, but both of those are pretty old looking buildings, so it shouldn't be crazy expensive to do that compared to the overall project. 

The cost/benefit ratio probably goes down west of E. 55th, as there are more manufacturing facilities in the way of a relocation of the Shoreway, and the lakefront is filled with private uses, not to mention Burke.

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2418 on: April 03, 2017, 07:04:25 PM »
^ Is there even a single car on that highway?

Is there a single car anywhere that's not parked? Makes me wonder if cars in motion aren't recognized by the satellite.

X, that was my thought. If we're going to move the highway, move it to maximize the value of the move. Don't do it half-a$$ed.
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Offline Matches

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2419 on: April 04, 2017, 09:57:00 AM »
I perused other aerial views in Google Maps and it does seem that either the moving cars are not picked up, or for purposes of showing the streets themselves and not the cars on them, Google digitally removes cars from roads and highways wherever they can.
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Offline Enginerd

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2420 on: April 04, 2017, 11:32:37 AM »
I could actually see this ticking quite a few of ODOT's boxes:
- big, earth moving mega-project that ODOT loves to promote
- Minimal impacts by maintaining traffic on the existing stretch of 90
- able to "upgrade" 90 with improved shoulders for their new intelligent traffic push

Would need heavy local buy in though, because they definitely won't propose something like this.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 11:33:38 AM by Enginerd »

Offline Pugu

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2421 on: April 04, 2017, 12:03:02 PM »
Using Google Earth, you CAN see cars on the roads.

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2422 on: April 09, 2017, 05:12:54 PM »
A couple shots of the new pavilion going up at Edgewater. Perfect day to be out at the beach (in April!). Coming along quite nicely...






Offline mack34

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2423 on: April 09, 2017, 06:01:48 PM »
I was in that exact spot today as well!  That beach house is going to be fantastic.  Still amazes me what the Metroparks have done to improve that park.  Its mindblowing

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2424 on: April 19, 2017, 12:05:02 PM »
Who wants to live in a development walled off from the lakefront by an interstate highway? Either build a green cap over the highway or move the damn highway away from the lake shore and through the former First Energy site, next to the rail line. The site is so polluted that nothing is proposed for it. Why have two pieces of land that retard redevelopment here -- a lakeside Interstate and the property that's surrounded by the First Energy site? Eliminate one with the other....

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2017/04212017/index.php
SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS
Former First Energy Power Plant Site: Strategic Plan
Presenters: Doug McCoach, CallisonRTKL
Sharonda Whatley, Staff Planner

MANY MANY (ie 50 or so!) IMAGES POSTED AT THE LINK ABOVE. HERE'S JUST A FEW.....

































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Offline MidwestChamp

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2425 on: April 19, 2017, 12:32:28 PM »
I swear if this town cannot muster the energy to move the freeway south and open up the lakefront.  The closing of that plant is a once in 100 year opportunity to transform that area.  The curve ONLY exists because there was a powerplant there!!  Taking out the curve and moving the freeway makes 90 safer, while unifying Gordon park again into something that can become a regional asset.  We screw this up and it will remain like that for decades upon  decades.  Move the freeway and clean the land...PLEASE.  I can't believe options that don't do this are even considered.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2426 on: April 19, 2017, 12:36:41 PM »
You would think ODOT would be all over the opportunity to lay more concrete.

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2427 on: April 19, 2017, 12:54:36 PM »
Move the freeway TO and clean the land...PLEASE.  I can't believe options that don't do this are even considered.

Fixed that for ya.
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Offline roman totale XVII

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2428 on: April 19, 2017, 01:40:40 PM »
I can't see past the Comic Sans...

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2429 on: May 01, 2017, 11:33:01 AM »
See what's popping up on Cleveland's waterfront
Updated May 01, 2017
Posted May 01, 2017
Peter Krouse, cleveland.com and Marvin Fong, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Northeast Ohio has something any city would love to have, a vast expanse of freshwater at its doorstep. People and buildings come and go, but Lake Erie is here forever.
After decades of turning its back on the lake, Ohioans are now embracing it as a place to live, work and play. They are learning how to protect it and how to use it to boost the economy without filling it up with garbage and debris.

The importance of the lakefront has not been lost on public officials who have undertaken numerous projects to improve its economic and recreational viability, whether developing the North Coast Harbor area around the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to improving access to the lakefront at the Cuyahoga River.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/05/see_whats_popping_up_on_clevel.html
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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2430 on: May 01, 2017, 12:29:54 PM »
^Lots of promising projects, especially the retail and residences around the stadium.  Although not directly on the lakefront, I'm disappointed the North Coast Transportation Center wasn't even mentioned in this article.

Offline BCCLE1

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2431 on: May 01, 2017, 12:50:44 PM »
^Lots of promising projects, especially the retail and residences around the stadium.  Although not directly on the lakefront, I'm disappointed the North Coast Transportation Center wasn't even mentioned in this article.

And why did the Lakefront Outlet Mall get mentioned? The worst project of all.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2432 on: May 01, 2017, 01:01:16 PM »
^Lots of promising projects, especially the retail and residences around the stadium.  Although not directly on the lakefront, I'm disappointed the North Coast Transportation Center wasn't even mentioned in this article.

And why did the Lakefront Outlet Mall get mentioned? The worst project of all.

Seeing that rendering ruins my good mood. Overall, it's very encouraging to see some long overdue momentum. Let's hope they get right.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2433 on: May 01, 2017, 01:47:14 PM »
^At least the article noted that there was some talk of locating the Outlet Mall south of the Shoreway in the Muny Lot.  Much better than putting that beast directly on the Lake.

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2434 on: May 01, 2017, 01:52:54 PM »
^At least the article noted that there was some talk of locating the Outlet Mall south of the Shoreway in the Muny Lot.  Much better than putting that beast directly on the Lake.

I think it would be much better off up on the bluff, somewhere amid the urban street grid. Going on the assumption that this place will be popular and crowded, you can kinda see how traffic could overwhelm the Shoreway and the limited access of the Muny Lot. People will put up with that traffic for tailgating, but not for TJ Maxx.   

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2435 on: May 01, 2017, 02:20:36 PM »
^Lots of promising projects, especially the retail and residences around the stadium.  Although not directly on the lakefront, I'm disappointed the North Coast Transportation Center wasn't even mentioned in this article.

Me too... I was quite surprised, actually.  Is that idea/project dead in the water or still a possibility?

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2436 on: May 01, 2017, 04:04:24 PM »
http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2017/05052017/DRC-2017_5_4.pdf

*Final Design Development Approval
2. Project: DF2015-044: North Coast Harbor Lakefront Plan – Site B
Project Address: North Coast Harbor (Lakefront)
Project Representative: Richard Pace, Cumberland Development; Gary Ogrocki and John
Holtz, Dimit Architects

Site B is the former skate park location:
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Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2437 on: May 01, 2017, 09:50:54 PM »
^At least the article noted that there was some talk of locating the Outlet Mall south of the Shoreway in the Muny Lot.  Much better than putting that beast directly on the Lake.

I think it would be much better off up on the bluff, somewhere amid the urban street grid. Going on the assumption that this place will be popular and crowded, you can kinda see how traffic could overwhelm the Shoreway and the limited access of the Muny Lot. People will put up with that traffic for tailgating, but not for TJ Maxx.   

There's no doubt in my mind that this outlet mall would be extremely popular so I think you're right. (I'm a fan of the project, for the record)

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2438 on: May 01, 2017, 09:57:54 PM »
^At least the article noted that there was some talk of locating the Outlet Mall south of the Shoreway in the Muny Lot.  Much better than putting that beast directly on the Lake.

I think it would be much better off up on the bluff, somewhere amid the urban street grid. Going on the assumption that this place will be popular and crowded, you can kinda see how traffic could overwhelm the Shoreway and the limited access of the Muny Lot. People will put up with that traffic for tailgating, but not for TJ Maxx.   

There's no doubt in my mind that this outlet mall would be extremely popular so I think you're right. (I'm a fan of the project, for the record)

I want a vast array of retail options on the waterfront too. But only if the design encourages access to, rather than blocking off, the historically hard-to-reach lakefront.

It's a tricky proposition, well outside of my pay grade!   

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2439 on: May 01, 2017, 10:43:11 PM »
From the article:  "Northeast Ohio has something any city would love to have, a vast expanse of freshwater at its doorstep. People and buildings come and go, but Lake Erie is here forever"

Wow. This statement is such a F@#$% You to the city of Cleveland that the PD has been doing it so long they don't even realize it, as this is supposed to be a positive article.

"_______________ has something any city would love to have..."

Clearly the name of a city belongs in the blank. Not a state, not a country, not a region. A city. But so many people have bought into the idea that the Cleveland is such a S#$#hole, that the word cannot be spoken, and it must be replaced by a euphemism: "Northeast Ohio".  No pride, only shame. Rather than spreading the message of all good that is cleveland, they say "Northeast Ohio"----which to many people--especially outside the US--haven't got a clue what that means. It might mean "Cincinnati" or No city--just an area. After all, if there was a city there, why not mention it, as that's what drives economies. "Southern Illinois" may make sense as there's no well-recognized city there. But could you imagine if Chicago gave up "Chicago" and instead said, "Hey visit Northeast Illinois! We're so great!"  It would be pathetic. And its exactly what so many in this city and this region do. And, the PD helps reinforce this nonsense. And now, when the 'fill in the blank with a city name' comes along, they can't bear to say "Cleveland" so they say a place that is not a city.

Another thing really out of control about the article---it suggests one should never go to Nuevo Modern Mexican Restaurant unless you want to get robbed or killed. Take a look at the photo---a place with 8-10 cops outside---does that look like a safe place?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 12:48:28 AM by Pugu »

Offline Paul in Cleveland

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2440 on: May 02, 2017, 08:15:26 AM »
From the article:  "Northeast Ohio has something any city would love to have, a vast expanse of freshwater at its doorstep. People and buildings come and go, but Lake Erie is here forever"

Wow. This statement is such a F@#$% You to the city of Cleveland that the PD has been doing it so long they don't even realize it, as this is supposed to be a positive article.


Pugu, I agree with you in general—I similarly HATE the whole "Greater Cleveland Aquarium" bullshit name ... is CLE so small that a "Cleveland Aquarium" would not be believable???—but the editor in me thinks that in this instance, it could be simply an instance of trying to mix up word choice. Imagine:

**********
Embracing the lake: Cleveland's greatest asset

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Cleveland has something any city would love to have, a vast expanse of freshwater at its doorstep. People and buildings come and go, but Lake Erie is here forever.

After decades of turning its back on the lake, Clevelanders are now embracing it as a place to live, work and play. They are learning how to protect it and how to use it to boost the economy without filling it up with garbage and debris. ...
**********

I'm an editor by profession, and if someone turned this into me, I'd think, "Variations of the word Cleveland FOUR times in the first 50 words?! You need to change up your word choice a bit."

Just a thought ... ;-)


Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2441 on: May 02, 2017, 10:35:50 AM »
Great, now can we get back to thinking about "Lakefront Development and News"?

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2442 on: May 02, 2017, 11:03:22 AM »
The second lakefront building behind the Rock Hall is going for final approval at the City Planning Commission this week: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2017/05052017/index.php
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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2443 on: May 02, 2017, 11:44:05 AM »
^Does anybody know if financing is in place?  The last time I recall reading an article about the building (maybe 4-5 months ago) Pace indicated that this was still up in the air.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 11:44:44 AM by Htsguy »

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2444 on: May 02, 2017, 11:46:15 AM »
^Does anybody know if financing is in place?  The last time I recall reading an article about the building (maybe 4-5 months ago) Pace indicated that this was still up in the air.

Good question. Anyone else hoping Pace goes back to the drawing board with this?

I find this building extremely underwhelming, especially given the high profile location.

Offline Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2445 on: May 02, 2017, 12:17:00 PM »
I really like the design -- I just wish it was 2-3 stories taller.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2446 on: May 05, 2017, 12:29:28 AM »
Never saw this before. Nice design for 1957....

Steve Kocevar‏ @SharkyFin5  4h4 hours ago
#ThisWasCLE 1957 - architect's drawing of a 34-story office tower on the lakefront with glass lobby, underground exhibit hall and garage.
https://twitter.com/SharkyFin5/status/860296579026235392

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2448 on: May 21, 2017, 11:34:28 AM »
CLE Chatter: Planners consider wider design for pedestrian bridge to waterfront
By Mark Naymik, cleveland.com
on May 19, 2017 at 4:08 PM, updated May 19, 2017 at 9:04 PM

Reality returns: The Group Plan Commission -- which is a collection of civic leaders and officials convened to manage public projects for Cuyahoga County and the city of Cleveland -- is considering a more practical design for a proposed pedestrian bridge connecting the mall atop the Cleveland Convention Center and North Coast Harbor. For a while, our leaders have been fixated on the fanciful Self Esteem Bridge, a narrow 900-foot walkway envisioned by Boston architect Miguel Rosales. But the project stalled months ago when the city and county leaders realized that they can't afford to build Rosales' 170-foot-high cable-stayed design, which is estimated to cost at least $33 million. (The county, city and state have $25 million set aside for the bridge.) Cuyahoga County Executive Armond Budish insists his administration has nothing to report at the moment. That's why I thought you should know what's being talked about behind the scenes. I was unable to reach the commission, by the way. The phone number listed on its website still connects callers to a voicemail box for Jeremy Paris, who resigned in December as the commission's executive director.

MORE:
http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2017/05/cle_chatter_planners_consider.html
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Offline dergon darkhelm

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2449 on: May 21, 2017, 03:30:52 PM »
Just took a walk on Edgewater beach.

It looks like the new pavilion has its own mini-set of "sunset steps" alla Lakewood park.  They look like they arc down to the beach facing westward.

Will try to get a pic next time.

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