Author Topic: Cleveland: Midtown: Development and News  (Read 360692 times)

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Offline doctabroccoli

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #175 on: June 10, 2009, 01:54:43 PM »
OK, I'm on a googling frenzy:

http://www.freetimes.com/stories/15/41/quothalf-the-world-is-here

Half The World Is Here
An Economics Student Turned Butcher Serves His Own Growing Community, And Many Others
By Jo Steigerwald

Once a week, Mr. Ali Lotfi-fard, an Iranian-born Muslim, drives to Bristol, Ohio, just a jog south of Middlefield. His destination: a slaughterhouse where Amish workers will help him corral the beef on the hoof needed for the week. Mr. Lotfi-fard is a halal butcher, whose store at West 95th and Detroit packs the world between its walls.

Tinned mackerel from Izola, Slovenia. Rice from Pakistan; rice from Thailand. Moroccan sardines. Feta cheese: French, Bulgarian, Romanian. The most fragrant green tea with jasmine from Karachi, Pakistan. Goya-brand beans and recaito. Dettol, the antiseptic cleaner mentioned in seemingly every contemporary novel from India. A phalanx of silver and gold hookah pipes. Henna hair dye. Tea samovars and china; liters of Pepsi, boxes of corn flakes. And during Ramadan, the cases of medjool dates are stacked as high as a man.

Want to know how a city grows? Watch what it eats. Cleveland, long a bastion of pierogis (or piroshke or pyrohy, depending on which side of what Eastern European border your great-grandmother traveled from), is now enriched by a conflation of Arabic, African and Asian tastes - all of whom have among them the commonality of a fast-growing religion, Islam.

Mr. Lotfi-fard (whom everyone calls Ali) and his wife, Paradise, immigrated to the United States in 1977. They came to escape the revolution brewing in Iran that ended with the overthrow of the reigning monarchy and the establishment of an Islamic republic under the Ayatollah Khomeini. Ali studied economics at Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland State, worked several jobs and raised a family of four sons with Paradise.

How did a student of economics become a butcher? Market demand. There was a dearth of halal butchers in Cleveland in the late '70s, and so Ali started Halal Meats to provide acceptable meat for his family. Then for friends. Finally, he and Paradise opened the store at 9418 Detroit in 1983.

"Halal means lawful, or permitted," explains Ali. "One takes the life of an animal with intention and respect in a humane way, and one invokes the name of God. A halal butcher must be intentional; must be humane; and must invoke the name of God." Like the kosher designation for Jews, halal signifies the divine present in the everyday, where God is in the details. Unlike kosher standards, a halal certification does not require its butchers to be overseen by a mosque official; it is enough that they are Muslim.

In addition to the beef from Bristol, Halal Meats has goat, lamb and chicken, whole or cut to order. His assistant, Noor Najmiah, who sports a pompadour that would make a rockabilly front man proud, travels to Detroit once a week for halal chicken, bakery and most of the store's grocery stock. "It used to be that the distributors delivered to us," says Paradise. "But since the price of gas is so high, we must go to them. Most of what is in the store we get from Detroit, which has a large Arabic community."

According to the American Religious Identity Survey, conducted in 2001 by the City University of New York with a sample size of 50,000 Americans, Islam ranks third on the list of the top 20 religions in the United States. Since 1980, the proportion of mosques founded in this country had increased by 62 percent, according to a 2001 study from the Hartford Institute for Religious Research.

Of course, Muslims have come to the United States for much longer than the past 30 years. Paradise tells this story: "About 15 years ago, there was an old Iranian man who came to the store, maybe twice. He had come to this country long ago, probably in the early 1900s. The second time he was in the store, he brought some things his mother gave him to take with him to America. He said his family wasn't interested in them and he wanted to give them to me. There was a magnificent prayer rug, a string of prayer beads, and two books. The one book was the Koran. He didn't know what the other book was, he couldn't read it." It was a cookbook. Humanity needs nourishment, physical and spiritual.

A prohibition on eating pork is part of the Muslim faith, as are drinking alcohol and gambling, which is one reason Ali won't sell beer or lottery tickets. The other? "If it's not good for my family," says Ali, "it's not good for yours. People tell me I'd make a lot of money in this neighborhood if I sold alcohol and lottery tickets. But it's not just about making money."

In fact, for most of Halal Meat's history, Ali has worked at other jobs and owned other businesses in order to support his family. "I don't do this for the money. I started this because there was no halal meat here for my family. Then friends wanted some. So, there was a demand; a market." He shrugs. "It was important to me to make it available."

This availability now includes supplying several Indian and Turkish restaurants in Northeast Ohio. And within the next month, Ali will break ground for a new store at East 83rd, between Euclid and Carnegie, next to the Cleveland Playhouse and down the block from the Cleveland Clinic. Named after the mystic Sufi poet, Rumi International Foods will feature prepared foods, a food court and halal catering services, in addition to halal meats and groceries.

At the original store, Ali takes phone orders: one whole goat, two lambs. He makes change for a sweet, lumbering man who gives out Catholic holy cards; totals up two liters of pop, dish soap and 25 pounds of flour, entering it into his book of store credit. He sells a $15 phone card for Africa and confers with Paradise.

"When customers are waiting, I tell them, look around you! Half the world is here! There's Somalia. Romania. Turkey, Egypt, Morocco. Pakistan. Iran."

All shopping for blessed meat, spices, dish soap and pop. The world goes to Ali's store and smiles.


Oh man, I am soooooo there.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #176 on: June 10, 2009, 02:29:57 PM »
On the Agora:  I'm glad the Jigsaw misadventure didn't do any more damage than it did.  Very sad they'd close for the summer... if only there were a small entertainment district around it to add some summer foot traffic... Beachland and Grog Shop aren't closing for the summer, so it's not an industry thing.  It's a Midtown thing.  Building a research park nearby is not going to help this situation.  It only will further isolate what should be viewed as a premier attraction for this city.  That's right, we're the home of Rock & Roll, but we're going to develop a sterile environment around our most venerable rock club as if it's not even there.  Madness.

On the grocery store:  That is the worst urban zoning code imaginable.  Wow.  Let's examine:

"a grocery store is not permitted in a Multi-Family District"

"frontage landscape strip... a 6’ width is required along the parking lot"

"parking spaces shall be at least 180 square feet and accessory uses shall be no less than 10’ from the side street line"

All these bad decisions we keep complaining about have been required by Cleveland law.  If we're going to keep those laws on the books there's no sense in trying to redevelop anything.  The zoning code must change.  It must change and it must change NOW.  It is the A#1 overwhelming reason the wrong things get built here, in the wrong manner and in the wrong places.  We have got to do something about this and it is urgent.  Extremely simple, but urgent.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 02:58:06 PM by 327 »
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Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #177 on: June 10, 2009, 03:11:21 PM »
The Agora closing for the summer is indeed an industry thing.  Summers are a tough time for midsized venues like the Agora, as outdoor shows suck up several bands each that could otherwise headline a midsize venue.  Beachland and Grog Shop are different sizes from the Agora, much smaller, and aren't drawing from the same set of bands.  They have a much larger set they can draw from to fill their venues, including many small local bands.  Also, their overhead is much lower.  I don't know about the Beachland, but I bet the Grog can open up just as a bar for the evening and still make some money- not an option for the Agora.

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #178 on: June 10, 2009, 03:21:42 PM »
On the grocery store:  That is the worst urban zoning code imaginable.  Wow.  Let's examine:

"a grocery store is not permitted in a Multi-Family District"

"frontage landscape strip... a 6’ width is required along the parking lot"

"parking spaces shall be at least 180 square feet and accessory uses shall be no less than 10’ from the side street line"

All these bad decisions we keep complaining about have been required by Cleveland law.  If we're going to keep those laws on the books there's no sense in trying to redevelop anything.  The zoning code must change.  It must change and it must change NOW.  It is the A#1 overwhelming reason the wrong things get built here, in the wrong manner and in the wrong places.  We have got to do something about this and it is urgent.  Extremely simple, but urgent.

Also, shouldn't these types of things be guided towards some sort of "culinary district" like has been mentioned for the area around the West Side Market or other areas, where the idea would be to group various culinary/International food stores etc., to create a bustling district?  I guess the city is more interested in this scattered auto-centric approach.       
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Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #179 on: June 10, 2009, 03:29:57 PM »
I don't think the City decided where these private investors were going to put their business.  I'm guessing the private investors decided where to put it, and that they wanted to be close to the large South and West Asian communities associated with the hospitals.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #180 on: June 10, 2009, 03:34:42 PM »
Agreed about the "just a bar" option not being there for the Agora right now.  This is why I'm so dead set on making sure residential and complimentary businesses get built in that area.  More realistically... that the area is reserved for such while we still have the chance. 

The Grog Shop is definitely smaller, but the Beachland is comparable.  Remember that a lot of the Agora's building is not part of the venue itself.  It has the same features as the Beachland, including a smaller stage for smaller acts.  In fact the Agora has small local acts in there all the time, or at least they did recently... I have a feeling the summer closure has more to do with cleaning up the Jigsaw mess and with not having a neighborhood around it to draw on like the other two do.  I really don't think it's anything unique to the Agora as a venue.  Isolate either of the other places and they'd have similar problems.

Also, it is not typical for the Agora to do this.  It may not be a big moneymaker but it is undeniably a big draw.  You should have seen the (irritating) crowd for the Insane Clown Posse show.  Black Keys... although apparently they're never coming back due to Jigsaw issues.  Flaming Lips, anyone?  I don't think that one was in the summer, but wow did that block light up with people.  If you spent some time near the Agora in recent years, for the big shows and the little ones, I don't think anyone would poo-poo it like this.  It is fully legit, and I wish the community would step back and reexamine its cultural value before it gets swept away. 

Also, shouldn't these types of things be guided towards some sort of "culinary district" like has been mentioned for the area around the West Side Market or other areas, where the idea would be to group various culinary/International food stores etc., to create a bustling district?  I guess the city is more interested in this scattered auto-centric approach.       

Interesting point, and something to consider.  There's also an Arab food "district" around 117th and Lorain.  Maybe this guy thought the east side was lacking, or maybe as X said he's looking to the hospitals for business.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 03:42:15 PM by 327 »
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Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #181 on: June 10, 2009, 04:47:13 PM »

Also, shouldn't these types of things be guided towards some sort of "culinary district" like has been mentioned for the area around the West Side Market or other areas, where the idea would be to group various culinary/International food stores etc., to create a bustling district?  I guess the city is more interested in this scattered auto-centric approach.       

Or near Galluccis!  Those would be two pretty awesome anchors for some redevelopment.


But yeah, can't blame this guy for choosing Carnegie given the high visibility for the flood of traffic there and convenience from the hospitals and eastern inner ring burbs.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 04:49:36 PM by StrapHanger »
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Online audidave

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #182 on: June 10, 2009, 08:27:49 PM »
My friend's band played at the Jigsaw the previous Memorial day and they also didn't get paid.  Maybe the Lara guy has something against Akron bands.  He just shut down the HiFi club in Lakewood too.    So this great empire of rock clubs has come crashing down.  Too bad the Agora had anything to do with it. 
Pretty much once bands find out that clubs are screwing over bands by not paying them, the clubs cease to exist.  Thats pretty idiotic not to pay the Black Keys.

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #183 on: June 11, 2009, 09:03:16 AM »
On the Agora:  I'm glad the Jigsaw misadventure didn't do any more damage than it did.  Very sad they'd close for the summer... if only there were a small entertainment district around it to add some summer foot traffic... Beachland and Grog Shop aren't closing for the summer, so it's not an industry thing.  It's a Midtown thing.  Building a research park nearby is not going to help this situation.  It only will further isolate what should be viewed as a premier attraction for this city.  That's right, we're the home of Rock & Roll, but we're going to develop a sterile environment around our most venerable rock club as if it's not even there.  Madness.

On the grocery store:  That is the worst urban zoning code imaginable.  Wow.  Let's examine:

"a grocery store is not permitted in a Multi-Family District"

"frontage landscape strip... a 6’ width is required along the parking lot"

"parking spaces shall be at least 180 square feet and accessory uses shall be no less than 10’ from the side street line"

All these bad decisions we keep complaining about have been required by Cleveland law.  If we're going to keep those laws on the books there's no sense in trying to redevelop anything.  The zoning code must change.  It must change and it must change NOW.  It is the A#1 overwhelming reason the wrong things get built here, in the wrong manner and in the wrong places.  We have got to do something about this and it is urgent.  Extremely simple, but urgent.

For some reason, I thought these zoing codes were outdated....so this is really what it still is in 2009??  damn..

You're right..."a grocery store is not permitted in a Multi-Family District" ??...does this mean it's supposed to be purely residental...still trying to figure this out since there are of course Mcdonalds and BK just a few blocks away

"frontage landscape strip... a 6ft width is required along the parking lot"

"parking spaces shall be at least 180 square feet and accessory uses shall be no less than 10’ from the side street line"


Parking guidelines...of course!  the more suburban city of Cleveland the better
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Offline MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #184 on: June 11, 2009, 09:05:12 AM »
Again here is what I linked over if anyone is confused...from 2007 proposal to city planning:

Here's something from 2007...

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/crr06-18-07.htm


9:30    Ward 6
Calendar No. 07-78:  2040 East 83rd Street Patricia Britt 
     
East 83rd and Carnegie LLC, owner and Ali Lofti Fard, appeal to construct a one-story grocery store and restaurant, proposed to be situated on consolidated parcels located in split zoning between General Retail Business and Multi-Family Districts on the west side of East 83rd Street at 2040 East 83rd Street; subject to the limitations of Section 337.08, a grocery store is not permitted in a Multi-Family District; and contrary to Sections 352.10 and 352.11, a 4’ wide frontage landscape strip is proposed where a 6’ width is required along the parking lot on East 83rd Street and Section 325.03 stipulates that parking spaces shall be at least 180 square feet and accessory uses shall be no less than 10’ from the side street line according to Section 357.05 of the Codified Ordinances. (Filed 5-15-07)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 09:06:02 AM by MuRrAy HiLL »
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Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #185 on: June 11, 2009, 10:16:14 AM »
The Hi-Fi had better open again.  This is getting out of hand.  It's like John Lithgow from Footloose is in charge.

For grocery stores to coexist really close they'd all have to be kind of small.  There's going to be some product overlap and we wouldn't want Gallucci's or the Asian places to get cannibalized.  The near east side is great for ethnic food, definitely something to build on.  This new one will be a nice addition.  A Puerto Rican grocery on the east side would be good too, maybe up or down 55th.
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Offline bizbiz

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #186 on: June 11, 2009, 11:26:55 AM »
The new international food place on E. 83rd and Carnegie is another dissapointment to MidTown, although once again, it falls on the cusps of some other zoning...... Another setback from the street building with a flooded parking lot in the front. Nice.............

Offline McCleveland

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #187 on: June 11, 2009, 12:12:18 PM »
I think the parking (judging soley from seeing some steel framing up as I drove by), is actually on E. 83rd.  There didn't appear to be too large a set back on the carnegie side.
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Offline freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #188 on: July 02, 2009, 10:44:41 AM »
State chooses Midtown Cleveland site for regional psychiatric hospital
by Michelle Jarboe/Plain Dealer Reporter
Thursday July 02, 2009, 11:00 AM

The state has selected a site in Midtown Cleveland, along the revamped Euclid Avenue corridor, for a new regional psychiatric hospital...

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/07/state_chooses_midtown_clevelan.html
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 03:20:52 PM by McCleveland »
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Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #189 on: July 02, 2009, 10:47:29 AM »
This is absurd.  I am appalled.  We built the Euclid Corridor for nothing.
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Offline TBideon

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #190 on: July 02, 2009, 10:47:31 AM »
What a horrible development :x
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 10:48:09 AM by TBideon »

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #191 on: July 02, 2009, 10:48:37 AM »
Everyone in charge in this town should be yanked off stage with a big ol' hook.  We've just witnessed some truly devastating incompetence.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 10:49:25 AM by 327 »
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Offline doctabroccoli

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #192 on: July 02, 2009, 10:48:42 AM »
Epic fail.

Offline cd-cleveland

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #193 on: July 02, 2009, 10:49:22 AM »
I posted this in the Filling in Euclid Avenue thread, but it is applicable here as well.
---

I just found out that Housing Credits were awarded (by the State of Ohio's Ohio Housing Finance Agency) for senior housing at East 73rd Street (by PIRHL Developers & Famicos Foundation) and permanent supportive housing at East 75th Street (by Cleveland Housing Network & EDEN) via a competitive process.  With the funding, it looks like both projects are in a very favorable position to move forward.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #194 on: July 02, 2009, 10:51:23 AM »
^ That too.  Jeeminy Christmas... this is how serious our leadership vaccuum is.  Euclid Ave is being destroyed before our eyes.  Wow.

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Offline TBideon

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #195 on: July 02, 2009, 10:53:23 AM »
^I wouldn't go that far, but it is certainly far more harmful than beneficial to the city.  Who would want to start a small business nextdoor to a psychiatric hospital?  Who would want to build middle class residences across the street from facilities like that? 

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #196 on: July 02, 2009, 10:56:26 AM »
I am going to reserve judgment until I better understand how this facility will be designed.  It's not like a homeless shelter in terms of causing undesirable street level activity.  Plus, as I mentioned upthread, I never really held out much hope for a vibrant residential neighborhood in this particular area (from the E 50's up to E. 72) of the corridor.
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Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #197 on: July 02, 2009, 10:57:25 AM »
I repeat... destroyed.  You tell me where the "good" development will happen now.  Anti-pedestrian black holes will now be interspersed from downtown to uptown so densely that there's no incentive to develop anything resembling an urban neighborhood in Midtown.  This is what I warned about earlier.
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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #198 on: July 02, 2009, 11:00:19 AM »
I think it could be a fantastic area for some low-rise residential development. It reminds me a lot of the Meatpacking District .. a ton of abandoned warehouses mixed with established businesses. I, for one, would love to live in an area like that.

I think a lot more needs to be done in terms of planning, though, to really turn this into a first-class neighborhood, though. I think a lot of changes would need to be made. Until then, I agree .. it has no real chance as of yet.

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #199 on: July 02, 2009, 11:09:42 AM »
Hold me, the sky is falling!

While I don't think that this is the best location for this facility either, if done right (a big "if"), perhaps some of the 300-500 employees could help increase demand in the area for housing, food, and other services.  If so, it could be a catalyst for development.  Plus, employees could take the new HealthLine to get to work rather than autos.  What this would require, then, is the plans to call for limited parking and, hopefully, no surface lots. 

Although I'm trying to put a positive spin on this, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #200 on: July 02, 2009, 11:16:37 AM »
Hold me, the sky is falling!

While I don't think that this is the best location for this facility either, if done right (a big "if"), perhaps some of the 300-500 employees could help increase demand in the area for housing, food, and other services.  If so, it could be a catalyst for development.  Plus, employees could take the new HealthLine to get to work rather than autos.  What this would require, then, is the plans to call for limited parking and, hopefully, no surface lots. 

Although I'm trying to put a positive spin on this, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

The positive spin is appreciated, but none of that is likely.  Hospitals prefer surface lots.  Best bet is to keep them off Euclid where we just built.. too late.  Hospitals (especially in bad neighborhoods) tend to have on-site food service because they know their typical employee doesn't want to be out in the ghetto.  So forget this thing spawning restaurants.  There needs to be more residential to get more restaurants, and that possibility just went out the window.  This hospital will likely bring an existing workforce in (isn't it moving in from a suburban location?), and these are people who are flat-out against riding transit.  How does a BRT connection between downtown and uptown help them with their commute anyway?  They will drive and they will expect to have hassle-free parking.  That's why ANOTHER hospital is such a horrendous thing to put next to the new transit system we just freaking built.  This project should be stopped.
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Offline novusordo0205

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #201 on: July 02, 2009, 11:20:44 AM »
People move.  Give them incentives to do so (as with the Clinic's "bonus" to people who live in UC).  Not sure if this is something that can be done with it being a state hospital or not, but there's always potential there. 

I agree with you, but had to make an attempt to make this look like something other than another 50-year bad decision.  We've made oh so many of them as a community.  What's one more?  (Great leadership by Mayor Jackson, too, to overlook the planning nightmare that this causes.  At least they're now "city" jobs.)

Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #202 on: July 02, 2009, 11:26:21 AM »
I don't know...I can't really get so bent out of shape about the psych hospital.  I'm sure it will be a crappy site plan and we'll all hate it...but considering how hard it's been to get new construction middle class housing built even near UC and further east on Euclid, I think it's a stretch to think that this chunk of land was going to explode into well-designed middle class housing anytime soon.  I agree that we shouldn't accept any old crap people want to build on this vacant land, but this is a pretty significant project that will bring/keep a ton of employees into the city. 

I guess I look at it this way: this city will see a finite number of new job-dense projects built over the next 10 years.  The city and county and other public bodies should do everything they can to funnel these types of projects to areas served by our best public transportation and to brownfield/redevelopment areas; this is the only way to make urban and transit-dependent living a practical option for residents.   I guess I'm just relieved that this thing isn't being built on some greenfield in the exurbs (like new Eaton HQ) which makes it virtually impossible for employees to have this lifestyle option.

So in my head it comes down to which of the transit-rich areas would have been a better fit for this facility.  Once the opportunity corridor is built, maybe big projects like this can be steered towards the east side red line corridor (like juvie hall), but probably not until then.
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Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #203 on: July 02, 2009, 11:32:01 AM »
This facitility is a bad fit for any transit-rich area.  There are greenfields all through this city, including several within a mile of this wildly inappropriate site.  If there was never any chance of developing neighborhoods on Euclid, why was the BRT built?  If it never needed stops on Euclid between downtown and UC/EC, it's wholly redundant with the red line.  This is not the bill of goods we were sold in conjunction with that project.

Cardinal rule: If it's anti-urban, and it's not the Cleveland Clinic, let the burbs keep it.  Addition is subtraction, if it wastes a sunk cost or if it permanently displaces something that would have been more gainful.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 11:35:19 AM by 327 »
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Offline gotribe

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #204 on: July 02, 2009, 11:37:55 AM »
^ That too.  Jeeminy Christmas... this is how serious our leadership vaccuum is.  Euclid Ave is being destroyed before our eyes.  Wow.



That section of Euclid Avenue is already destroyed.  you need to look at the fact that 500 people will be driving to that employer everyday and catering to any ameneties around there.  Without jobs there, people will not go there.  I really do not see the evil in having this on this site.  There needs to be a draw to the area befor it develops resedentially and with retail. 

Offline jpop

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #205 on: July 02, 2009, 11:39:00 AM »
I agree.

I'm sick of hearing the whole "we're desperate to keep jobs, so let's just plunk this thing anywhere" line. Neighborhoods need to be planned much better, and those neighborhoods need to stick to their vision for the area if there will ever be any hope of it progressing, I think. There needs to be a larger vision for this area, and if it's building a bunch of medical facilities, so be it .. but I thought their vision for the neighborhood was grander than that.

I dunno. Personally, I'm pretty disappointed by this development. We'll see what happens, I guess. Yes, we keep jobs, and that's great. But Cleveland needs to stop settling for so little all the time.

Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #206 on: July 02, 2009, 11:43:15 AM »
This facitility is a bad fit for any transit-rich area.  There are greenfields all through this city, including several within a mile of this wildly inappropriate site.  If there was never any chance of developing neighborhoods on Euclid, why was the BRT built?  If it never needed stops on Euclid between downtown and UC/EC, it's wholly redundant with the red line.  This is not the bill of goods we were sold in conjunction with that project.

A 500-employee facility that will attract a daily stream of visitors is a bad fit for a transit-rich area?  I guess I'm puzzled by your feelings here.  I agree that I'd like to see more residential along the BRT, but you also need to give commuters somewhere to ride to.
"Cleveland, as you see, is not an apple, but a bunch of grapes each of which has its own particular pattern-some large, others small, some round, others long and narrow, some sweet, others sour, some sound, others rotten throughout."  -Howard Whipple Green, 1932

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #207 on: July 02, 2009, 11:44:28 AM »
^ That too.  Jeeminy Christmas... this is how serious our leadership vaccuum is.  Euclid Ave is being destroyed before our eyes.  Wow.



That section of Euclid Avenue is already destroyed.  you need to look at the fact that 500 people will be driving to that employer everyday and catering to any ameneties around there.  Without jobs there, people will not go there.  I really do not see the evil in having this on this site.  There needs to be a draw to the area befor it develops resedentially and with retail. 

I need a beer.  I know a ton of people who commute to jobs in the city, and they are 100% against patronizing local businesses.  They don't want to be out of their cars in these areas, and given the current shortage of health care workers, their employer will make sure they're happy in this regard.  Hospitals do not spawn residential and retail... if they do, what the hell is going on around the Clinic?  It's been there for ages, employing zillions over that time, and look at the area around it!  This is not the kind of traffic that helps an urban neighborhood.  This only hurts, and it's especially bad here because there were so many high hopes for the corridor.

A 500-employee facility that will attract a daily stream of visitors is a bad fit for a transit-rich area?  I guess I'm puzzled by your feelings here.  I agree that I'd like to see more residential along the BRT, but you also need to give commuters somewhere to ride to.

Help me understand where you're coming from. 

In what way is BRT a commuter line?  It was never intended to be.  Do you really think a significant portion of these workers or hospital visitors will utilize the BRT?  Are you suggesting that Lutheran helps W25th with its stream of visitors?  This is not how I see things working out in practice... at all.  Private institutions like hospitals are anti-pedestrian.  If you want to see more residential in an area, why simultaneously support placing something there that people don't want to live around? 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 11:52:43 AM by 327 »
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Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #208 on: July 02, 2009, 11:52:16 AM »
^I think you're view of the Clinic's impact is a little narrow.  The Clinic has done a terrible job with its vast land holdings, and as a result of which, we'll never know if employees would patronize nearby businesses.  But the location of the Clinic most certainly makes living in the Heights, downtown, and even crappier parts of the city an attractive and viable option for its thousands of employees.  And I'd guess that hundreds of Clinic employees arrive to work on public transit every day.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 11:52:44 AM by StrapHanger »
"Cleveland, as you see, is not an apple, but a bunch of grapes each of which has its own particular pattern-some large, others small, some round, others long and narrow, some sweet, others sour, some sound, others rotten throughout."  -Howard Whipple Green, 1932

Offline gotribe

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Re: Cleveland: Midtown Developments
« Reply #209 on: July 02, 2009, 11:53:26 AM »
^ That too.  Jeeminy Christmas... this is how serious our leadership vaccuum is.  Euclid Ave is being destroyed before our eyes.  Wow.



That section of Euclid Avenue is already destroyed.  you need to look at the fact that 500 people will be driving to that employer everyday and catering to any ameneties around there.  Without jobs there, people will not go there.  I really do not see the evil in having this on this site.  There needs to be a draw to the area befor it develops resedentially and with retail. 

I need a beer.  I know a ton of people who commute to jobs in the city, and they are 100% against patronizing local businesses.  They don't want to be out of their cars in these areas, and given the current shortage of health care workers, their employer will make sure they're happy in this regard.  Hospitals do not spawn residential and retail... if they do, what the hell is going on around the Clinic?  It's been there for ages, employing zillions over that time, and look at the area around it!  This is not the kind of traffic that helps an urban neighborhood.  This only hurts, and it's especially bad here because there were so many high hopes for the corridor.

Go ahead and build 100 condominiums there.  Do you reall think people want to live at 55th and Euclid right now.  Probably not.  If you were a bank, would you provide someone funding for houses there, probably not.   Area's don't develop because houses are built, houses are built because there are jobs.  Jobs come first, homes come next, retail comes last.   
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 11:53:50 AM by gotribe »

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