Author Topic: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development  (Read 13095 times)

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Offline Rabbit Hash

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #140 on: June 22, 2017, 01:38:42 PM »
I'm sure the Kingsley development will happen still with the offices.  They will obviously need to re-think the commercial space they are planning for it, maybe they can go with a type of Book Store, wouldn't it be sweet if they got an Apple Store at some point?  Anyways, I think this will go through still, but it just may be some time before it does.

What's the thread for this Kingsley development called?

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #141 on: June 22, 2017, 03:04:09 PM »
That project has mostly been discussed in the Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC) thread. When it starts getting more serious we can create a thread for that specific project.
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Offline mattdeininger

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #142 on: June 23, 2017, 02:24:18 PM »
^ does the Kingsley development still happen? I thought it was supposed to have a grocery store component and with Kroger going where it was going, I don't see a grocery store component feasible anymore. Does that change the economics of the deal.

That seemed like they just wanted to say *grocery* to get headlines. The much bigger component of that project is office space, and that is what would determine the financial feasibility of it moving forward. From what I recall they actually purchased the land.

I've heard rumors they want to put a Walgreens there. They're partnering with Anchor Development who exclusively builds Walgreens stores.

Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #143 on: June 23, 2017, 04:04:26 PM »
Downtown Kroger clears first hurdle

The first piece of legislation needed to clear the way for a downtown Kroger Store and Central Parkway and Walnut streets was approved by the Cincinnati Planning Commission on Friday, vacating a city-owned alley on the project site.

The alley, Bowen Street, was worth about $60,000, according to documents filed with the city and commissioners approved the sale unanimously. The measure now goes to the Cincinnati City Council for approval.

More below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/23/downtown-kroger-clears-first-hurdle.html
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Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #144 on: June 26, 2017, 03:16:37 PM »
​Downtown Kroger heads toward City Council approval, but not before a hiccup over the streetcar

Two Cincinnati City Council members said Monday they have concerns over the deal to bring a Kroger grocery store to downtown centered on how the project contributes to the Cincinnati Bell Connector streetcar’s operations, but three ordinances needed to make it a reality appear headed toward passage.

More below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/26/downtown-kroger-heads-toward-city-council.html
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Offline ucgrady

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #145 on: June 26, 2017, 03:30:23 PM »
I see Cranley using the argument that Simpson is putting the streetcar ahead of Kroger and a downtown grocery to further his one-topic-only campaign...

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #146 on: June 26, 2017, 04:05:05 PM »
Meh, I don't think Cranley's base is too supportive of the Downtown Kroger anyway. Cranley's entire campaign in 2013 was based on the idea that "the city is too focused on downtown and not focused enough on neighborhoods." So I don't think Cranley can really brag about the new Downtown Kroger without upsetting his base.
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Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #147 on: June 29, 2017, 09:22:15 AM »
Downtown Kroger moves ahead in day of deals at Cincinnati City Hall

The Cincinnati City Council approved a flurry of economic development-related ordinances Wednesday, including four ordinances related to the $90.6 million mixed-use development at Central Parkway and Walnut Street that will include a Kroger store.

More below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/29/downtown-kroger-moves-ahead-in-day-of-deals-at.html
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Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #148 on: June 29, 2017, 10:20:36 AM »
Did they approve the bad precedent of allowing the Kroger to not contribute to VITCA?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 10:32:37 AM by jmicha »

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #149 on: June 29, 2017, 01:08:41 PM »
Yes. That's why Chris Seelbach voted no.

Cranley called us a "big boy city":

Quote
“Part of being a big boy city that’s on the rise is having a big, great grocer in the biggest part of your city,” Cranley said. “The benefits we get from having Kroger are unparalleled.”
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Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #150 on: June 29, 2017, 02:00:37 PM »
"Big Boy" city? Hmmm in a checkered pair of overalls that could be said for our mayor as well i would think. Quite a remarkable resemblance, especially in this pic.

Offline northsider

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #151 on: June 29, 2017, 04:04:39 PM »
I'd think that this will be even more influenced by the layouts of Chicago's Marianos stores, which Kroger now owns. The layout of Corryville was determined when they put the plans together like 2-3 years ago, so Kroger hadn't yet absorbed lessons from Marianos.  This is being designed in a post-Marianos ownership landscape.
Wishful thinking IMO

As for why they don't get that building at Main and Central, that building is historic and charming and lots of people (including me) would raise a hue and cry if it were demolished.
A 1,500 SF one-story corner building, built in 1941?  It was a mistake when it was built and is not worth saving IMO.

I work for Kroger, so I'm willing to bet I know more about our store planning process than you. *shrug* We are both hoping for the same thing.

Offline thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #152 on: July 17, 2017, 08:11:26 AM »
Article about architecture of Court and Walnut, before the HCB on July 24th:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/downtown-cincinnati-kroger-project-makes-good-first-impression-with-interesting-and-subtle-design

The GBBN model shows a taller building at Central Parkway and Main. So maybe they're planning for that possibility? Tough to tell with the angle of the photo.

Offline JYP

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #153 on: July 17, 2017, 01:09:37 PM »
Article about architecture of Court and Walnut, before the HCB on July 24th:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/downtown-cincinnati-kroger-project-makes-good-first-impression-with-interesting-and-subtle-design

The GBBN model shows a taller building at Central Parkway and Main. So maybe they're planning for that possibility? Tough to tell with the angle of the photo.

Bill, that looks to me like part of the Alms-Doepke building.
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Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #154 on: July 17, 2017, 01:23:34 PM »
^yeah... if you look at that model from the other side, you can see that there isn't a tall building at that corner: https://spark.adobe.com/page/xBK0BLCy3A8TI/


Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #155 on: July 17, 2017, 01:37:11 PM »
I hope that if a development is ever slated for that corner that the small building can be moved to a vacant lot. 

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #156 on: July 17, 2017, 02:13:59 PM »
I generally really like this building...but that Central Parkway loading bay...is really terrible. They did an awful job of making it at least feel integrated. That's a permanent hole in the urban fabric of Central Parkway.

I wish there could be push to make that able to hold a future building but get that spanning over angled semi parking bays isn't exactly cheap for a theoretical future building. But still, it's bad.

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #157 on: July 17, 2017, 02:46:41 PM »
Someone could design a really interesting building for that small lot facing Main with cantilevers over the small building at Central Parkway & Main and the Kroger loading docks. Of course that type of development isn't going to happen until property values get sky high in Cincinnati.
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Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #158 on: July 17, 2017, 03:41:36 PM »
I generally really like this building...but that Central Parkway loading bay...is really terrible. They did an awful job of making it at least feel integrated. That's a permanent hole in the urban fabric of Central Parkway.

Agreed. The site has access on 3 sides (Court, Walnut, and Central Parkway) and an existing alleyway which sadly will be lost in this design, so I wish they would figure out a loading dock solution that is less disruptive to the street.

Offline Chas Wiederhold

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #159 on: July 17, 2017, 03:55:43 PM »
What is more likely to happen there (if anything) is what we are seeing all over in Portland and especially Seattle.

See linked image: https://goo.gl/maps/m2nh3gfPofR2

Actually... it'd probably be something shittier, like this (still in Seattle): https://goo.gl/maps/HyxsQGTmbmS2
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 03:57:53 PM by Chas Wiederhold »

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #160 on: July 17, 2017, 04:35:26 PM »
Also, keep in mind that the city is not allowing new curb cuts on the streetcar tracks for safety reasons, so the loading docks either had to go on Central Parkway or Court Street.
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Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #161 on: Today at 10:19:17 AM »
So...the latest HCB packet is out and there's something very concerning. This building will fully encompass that small building at the corner of Central and Main and will have a garage entry off Main Street as well. Meaning they have 4 curb cuts for this one building and have removed an important corner fully from being built at Main and Central.

I hate to be dramatic but I really hope they deny this building and force them to revise how they're dealing with the eastern half of the property. Because that's trash. It's bad design and bad urbanism and is bad for the future of Downtown.

Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #162 on: Today at 10:39:10 AM »
So...the latest HCB packet is out and there's something very concerning. This building will fully encompass that small building at the corner of Central and Main and will have a garage entry off Main Street as well. Meaning they have 4 curb cuts for this one building and have removed an important corner fully from being built at Main and Central.

I hate to be dramatic but I really hope they deny this building and force them to revise how they're dealing with the eastern half of the property. Because that's trash. It's bad design and bad urbanism and is bad for the future of Downtown.

What did you mean by 'fully encompass'? Is it now being demolished and replaced or do you mean surrounded? It has had that Main Street entrance for small deliveries since the beginning with that gap between the Hamilton County Building and the little corner bank filled with a low rise facilities type building. Hopefilly it is dresed up/detailed  and isnt just a roll up door with cinderblock facade but i don't necessarily see this vehicle entrance as a project killer. With all the multiple uses happening in one project the vehicles entrances need to happen somewhere and the semis need to have their separate docks somewhere. Depending on how it is detailed vehicle entrances can contribute to the overall look of a building and don't have to be bad by default. Look at Union Terminal, back in the day the front lower wings were just REALLY dramatic vehicle entrances. Cars and cities can work together and we should not see the ways they interact with architecture as simple a service entrance to be hidden. It is all in how you look at it i guess.

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #163 on: Today at 10:45:11 AM »
Encompassed meaning surrounded. From the renderings before it only looked the the gap between the small building and this new tower on Central Parkway would be filled in with a one story portion. Maybe I missed something where it was visible that there'd be a garage entry off of Main Street between the small corner building and county administration building, but it's shown here. And looks terrible. It's severely disappointing. Honestly to the point where I don't know how much I can get behind this project. Taking an entire corner off the market for curb cuts and one story garage/service entries is a terrible idea.

Edit: Looking just above that portion isn't even shown in their model. I'm not sure I agree that there isn't a better way to handle getting people into the garage that doesn't require a random ramped offshoot all the way to Main Street. That's sloppy planning. It's already bad enough that there will be semis backing in off of Central Parkway.

How is it that this Kroger requires all this service area but I've been to plenty other markets in less urban locations that are the same size and don't require this? Is Kroger just unwilling to change its supplying model?
« Last Edit: Today at 10:48:40 AM by jmicha »

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #164 on: Today at 10:46:49 AM »
Completely surrounds the 1-story building. The parking lot on Main becomes a parking garage entrance for the public as well as a delivery truck entrance for Kroger. I think it is a mistake to have any kind of vehicle entrance located right there, as it will interfere with the streetcar stop.
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Offline Jskinner

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #165 on: Today at 12:41:55 PM »
Here is the image in the packet

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #166 on: Today at 12:45:06 PM »
If the ramp is for resident parking it's not such a problem because residents will know the streetcar is there.  Visitors to the grocery store are more likely to hit it. 

Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #167 on: Today at 12:45:07 PM »
Here's the street level view of that corner:

Here's a link to the July 24 packet (125 mb): https://www.dropbox.com/s/neqeba63vo7q9gv/2017.07.24.pdf?dl=0

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #168 on: Today at 12:45:53 PM »
It's kind of amazing that this small building will be preserved. 

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #169 on: Today at 01:21:23 PM »
If the ramp is for resident parking it's not such a problem because residents will know the streetcar is there.  Visitors to the grocery store are more likely to hit it. 

That's true, but from the renderings, it looks like it's public parking, not just for residents.

I can see it now: a streetcar is stopped at that station. Just as it begins to accelerate, an idiot driver makes a left turn from the right lane of Main into that parking garage entrance, in front of the streetcar. The streetcar hits the car. This will happen all the time.

I can see why they want to add a second parking garage entrance. Having a single entrance only accessible from eastbound Central Parkway is not ideal. I'm not sure what a better location would be for a second entrance. Court Street isn't ideal, either.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:24:31 PM by taestell »
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Offline urbanpioneer

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #170 on: Today at 01:40:28 PM »
I'm all for historic preservation but I wonder if it could be better if the little building at Main and Central Pkwy. came down?  It appears to be a nice building (at least the exterior does) but IMO it's way too small and out of scale for such a wide street like Central Pkwy.  On the other hand, I don't know if that location, right on the Main Street streetcar tracks, would be better or not if higher rise development occurred there.  I suspect it would though.  And I'm not bothered by garage and dock access on Central Pkwy. -- it seems to me, considering the streetcar tracks on Main Street -- that garage and dock access would be safer on the pkwy. anyway.  Surely some kind of attractive streetscaping could be implemented to help offset the appearance of vehicle access.  Besides, the pkwy. doesn't exactly lend itself to small storefront-like development...

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #171 on: Today at 01:46:36 PM »
I wonder if this ramp could be designed in such a way that a building could be build over top of it later. Similar to this ramp leading to the residential parking garage at The Banks, where the 180 Walnut office building will eventually be built:

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Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #172 on: Today at 01:49:13 PM »
Here's the street level view of that corner:

Here's a link to the July 24 packet (125 mb): https://www.dropbox.com/s/neqeba63vo7q9gv/2017.07.24.pdf?dl=0

Oh, so it is just a roll up door & Cinder block. Doh. I fully agree that is kinds sucks now. It could have a cool rooftop deck on top of that low part at least i would think or SOMETHING. At least it makes for a good long term artworks spot on that slim building.

Offline JYP

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #173 on: Today at 02:04:35 PM »
I've heard the parking ramp on Main was eliminated. They are only going to use that curb cut for truck deliveries.

Also, 2 of the parking garage floors above Kroger will be level opening up the possibility of conversion to something else in the future.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:05:14 PM by JYP »
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