Author Topic: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why  (Read 24750 times)

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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #105 on: April 15, 2016, 04:46:18 PM »
KJP - Have you seen any recent renderings for 515 Euclid?

No, but they should be coming soon based on this:
http://nadaaa.com/blog/?p=8633
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Offline McLovin

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #106 on: April 15, 2016, 05:02:53 PM »
KJP - Have you seen any recent renderings for 515 Euclid?

No, but they should be coming soon based on this:
http://nadaaa.com/blog/?p=8633
What an ironic headline!

Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #107 on: April 15, 2016, 05:07:11 PM »
So question for @Htsguy, is Phase I of the lakefront development enough for that project to be the big winner?

Also, on this topic, has anyone noticed if anything has happened at One University Circle beyond the construction fence someone mentioned a few weeks ago?
"Cleveland, as you see, is not an apple, but a bunch of grapes each of which has its own particular pattern-some large, others small, some round, others long and narrow, some sweet, others sour, some sound, others rotten throughout."  -Howard Whipple Green, 1932

Offline CleveFan

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #108 on: April 20, 2016, 04:33:17 PM »
Thanks Murray Hill, for the link to an a very interesting article on possible huge-scale future development in Portland in your April 15 post -
I'd love to see Cleveland in a similar reality soon - just wondering if we'll see a "crane in the sky" as a result of the CityMark "Superblock" project during the RNC  (I thought that was a specific timetable goal for CityMark) - any update on that project?

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #109 on: April 20, 2016, 11:20:18 PM »
So question for @Htsguy, is Phase I of the lakefront development enough for that project to be the big winner?

Also, on this topic, has anyone noticed if anything has happened at One University Circle beyond the construction fence someone mentioned a few weeks ago?

I would like to say yes but it is such a small start to a project that is suppose to be transformative that it is hard to get excited at this point,

Really surprised that One UC is so far along.  Would have never guessed it at the time I started the thread.

And clearly I was wrong in my guess that Brickman's Duck island project would be first (along with a few others who agreed).  In fact way wrong given how the project has evolved and the new renderings we just saw today. 


Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #110 on: June 30, 2017, 12:08:22 AM »
We haven't been on this thread for more than a year. 515 starts construction in August.
What comes after that.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #111 on: June 30, 2017, 03:47:27 AM »
Playhouse Square tower. PHS believes they can start construction by the end of the year.
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #112 on: June 30, 2017, 07:02:04 AM »
^ wouldn't it be something if the Playhouse Square Tower broke ground before either Stark project. I really love how they got all of their ducks in a row before making the announcement.
"They tell me of the River Cuyahoga in the Ohio territory; upon it a great city will emerge." - Correspondence of Thomas Jefferson in drafting 'Notes on the State of Virginia'

Online Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #113 on: June 30, 2017, 08:25:47 AM »
Thanks for bumping this thread. Since the last time it was updated, the following major projects broke ground:

1. Snavely at W. 25th and Detroit
2. One University Circle
3. Centric (formerly Intesa)

Breakwater Bluffs is almost done, as are several historic renovations -- Garfield, Leader, and Standard buildings. Here is an updated list, in no particular order. I'm limiting it to new construction projects that have been announced.

1. Stark nuCLEus
2. Flats East Bank Phase 3 (mixed use or second office building)
3. Weston/Citymark Warehouse District development
4. University Circle City Center
5. Brickman One West 20 development on Lorain in Duck Island
6. Visconsi Little Italy apartments at Coltman and E. 123rd
7. Stark Beacon at 515 Euclid
8. Cumberland Lakefront development
9. Church and State building at Detroit and W. 28th
10. Playhouse Square tower on Euclid

This leaves out redevelopment projects like the Cleveland Athletic Club and Halle building, and several others that are likely years away, like the Terminal Tower, May Company and Union Trust (925 Euclid) buildings. And it also leaves out numerous smaller projects in Little Italy, Battery Park, and Tremont.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 08:31:18 AM by Mendo »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #114 on: June 30, 2017, 08:29:38 AM »
From what I understand, 925 Euclid is pretty close to getting underway. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets underway before Playhouse Square's tower.
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #115 on: June 30, 2017, 08:39:22 AM »
Funny...when I first started this thread in October 2014 I did not even include Beacon in my suggested list and stated that the Playhouse Square apartment building was only "rumored", and it looks like both will break ground well before my first choice, Brickman's Duck Island project, which still has a long way to go (they are now suggesting early 2018).  Other projects that were not even announced at the time (like the Snavely Ohio City project) are well on their way in contrast to other announced projects on my list which have not even started and don't appear to have a chance go start any time soon.

Really thought the lakefront would have started by now (nothing done other than the Mexican restaurant).

Offline Enginerd

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #116 on: June 30, 2017, 12:24:27 PM »
It seems like work on the Halle building is happening. I have no idea how major or minor but I see construction workers there every day. Unless they are just loitering there and they actually are working at the CAC. \_(ツ)_/

Offline RE Developer In Training

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #117 on: June 30, 2017, 12:55:24 PM »
Halle Building is indeed underway.  It's my understanding that they're still in the demolition phase.  K&D has promised Fitworks and NRP's office space by Q1 2018, so things should start heating up there on Euclid.  Apartments on the upper floors will come last.

Offline GOLF38

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #118 on: June 30, 2017, 04:23:19 PM »
Hopefully Playhouse tower  starts at the end of the year like they said, so a year or two from now were not talking when they are breaking  ground like
 Nucleus or Weston.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #119 on: June 30, 2017, 07:29:07 PM »
Hopefully Playhouse tower  starts at the end of the year like they said, so a year or two from now were not talking when they are breaking  ground like
 Nucleus or Weston.

I'm not certain it will be that fast, but they got their financing in order before they made their announcement. For that reason, I don't think it will face substantial delays.
"They tell me of the River Cuyahoga in the Ohio territory; upon it a great city will emerge." - Correspondence of Thomas Jefferson in drafting 'Notes on the State of Virginia'

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #120 on: July 16, 2017, 09:59:23 PM »
For the new construction projects downtown, here's what I imagine/want to be the order of groundbreakings....

1. The Beacon/515 Euclid (looking at August start)
2. Playhouse Square apartment tower (projected to start this fall, but there's always delays)
3. nuCLEus (if the TIF passes the CMSD & City Council this fall, I would anticipate groundbreaking in the winter/spring although demolitions would happen sooner)
4. Medical Mutual HQ (yes, I'm anticipating new construction. If MM's board meets this week and gives a go-ahead, MM's new building might start as early as spring/summer. I don't know why, but I'm thinking MM is bound for Cumberland's lakefront development)
5. Sherwin Williams HQ (it could be a tie with MM's groundbreaking. If so, that would amazing to have five major building projects under construction at the same time. Please put this on Jacobs' Public Square lot!)
6. CPD HQ (something tells me they will build new. Their aggressive timetable seems pretentious. I just can't picture which existing building/garage can satisfy their requirements. I don't know where it will go, but I'm hoping it's part of Weston's Warehouse District Superblock, in Parcel B, at the SW corner of St. Clair and West 3rd)
7. Lakefront Outlet Center (if this gets moved to the south side of the Shoreway onto the Muny lot, I'm thinking this project is probably 3-5 years away)
8. Playhouse Square development (PHS Foundation just bought properties on Chester at East 13th. I'll wager that this is next in their plans after the PHS tower and parking deck is built. If not, look for PHS to build 20 stories of residential atop the Cowell & Hubbard building -- in fact, I'm surprised they didn't try this first before pursuing a 34-story totally new-build tower)
9. Flats East Bank Phase 3 (this seems to have dropped off the radar but it's mostly my own hope that this will soon return to relevancy)
10. Weston Parcel A residential tower (SE corner of St. Clair & West 6th. The parking deck needed for the CPD HQ in Parcel B helps to subsidize the parking and other infrastructure necessary for Parcel A)
11. Justice Center (I also anticipate the Justice Center will be a part of a trade with Weston after an RFP. The old Justice Center tower will be renovated with tax credits in 2026 and converted into housing with the new Justice Center courthouse tower and jailhouse tower built on the Superblock)
12. Settlers Point Tower (this could easily move up the list, but I just don't know enough about Joel Scheer's intentions/progress with this project to move it)
13. Flats South Innovation Tower/District (this also could move up the list for the same reason as #12. Joel Scheer hasn't said much if anything publicly about this project but he probably needs a ton of infrastructure work done, inclusion restoration of the Eagle Avenue ramp)
14. Scranton Peninsula (well who knows what they have in mind or when they have it in mind!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 10:04:11 PM by KJP »
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #121 on: July 16, 2017, 11:30:43 PM »
How about Quicken loans arena expansion, Pace/Cumberland Apartment building and
Jeff Jacobs West Bank Development?

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2017, 11:55:49 PM »
Is the casino phase 2 totally dead?  I would think the 2 key projects for downtown besides the rejiggering of all the justice and county buildings is sherwin williams and the casino.  Those are key investments in downtown.
 I hate to say a casino is an investment but i think the idea is phase 2 will cost like a half billion and i have to believe tie in transportation links which will be many $10s of millions more if the direction is heading up the Cuyahoga. 

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #123 on: July 17, 2017, 07:21:38 AM »
How about Quicken loans arena expansion, Pace/Cumberland Apartment building and
Jeff Jacobs West Bank Development?

I was posting about projects that will be vertical or could have vertical structures. You're right that I should have included Jacobs' Flats West Bank development. It sounds like their hotel component could start relatively soon.
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #124 on: July 17, 2017, 09:00:05 AM »
How about Quicken loans arena expansion, Pace/Cumberland Apartment building and
Jeff Jacobs West Bank Development?

I think that project should go in the Which Project Should Be Last and Why thread.

Online down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #125 on: July 17, 2017, 09:04:36 AM »
Is the casino phase 2 totally dead?  I would think the 2 key projects for downtown besides the rejiggering of all the justice and county buildings is sherwin williams and the casino.  Those are key investments in downtown.
 I hate to say a casino is an investment but i think the idea is phase 2 will cost like a half billion and i have to believe tie in transportation links which will be many $10s of millions more if the direction is heading up the Cuyahoga. 

I think Phase 2 is dead.  The casino revenue numbers continue to decline.  I wouldn't be surprised if Phase 1 doesn't last very long. 

Offline mrclifton88

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #126 on: July 17, 2017, 09:33:53 AM »
Phase 2 most likely will not consist of a casino at all, but I still think the land may be developed.  Last i heard is that there is a plan to renovate Tower City but nothing would happen until next year when K&D begins their renovations of Terminal Tower.  I'm hoping there is a plan in place to build residential and perhaps more retail on the Phase 2 land (maybe an anchor for Tower City?)  But with so much uncertainty in retail I just don't know what to expect...

Online ethlaw

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #127 on: July 17, 2017, 09:34:41 AM »
KJP, I'm glad you also think there's a good possibility that the new Justice Center and police HQ will be on the Weston land. I think that would be the best way to do that, and would also give Weston the boost they need to build the retail/residential portion of their project along W. 6th.

However, I'm not sure if I can imagine the former Justice Center tower being converted into housing. I almost feel like the floor plates are too large with not enough windows. It's hard to imagine a functional layout for housing units that will allow each unit to get windows.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #128 on: July 17, 2017, 09:34:46 AM »
I doubt the Weston project, as proposed, ever comes to fruition. I had heard rumblings about them wanting to make a couple blocks of "brownstone" style row homes on those blocks. Not sure how true that is but it might not be a bad idea and a good way to get equity downtown.
"They tell me of the River Cuyahoga in the Ohio territory; upon it a great city will emerge." - Correspondence of Thomas Jefferson in drafting 'Notes on the State of Virginia'

Offline mrclifton88

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #129 on: July 17, 2017, 09:34:56 AM »
Is the casino phase 2 totally dead?  I would think the 2 key projects for downtown besides the rejiggering of all the justice and county buildings is sherwin williams and the casino.  Those are key investments in downtown.
 I hate to say a casino is an investment but i think the idea is phase 2 will cost like a half billion and i have to believe tie in transportation links which will be many $10s of millions more if the direction is heading up the Cuyahoga. 

I think Phase 2 is dead.  The casino revenue numbers continue to decline.  I wouldn't be surprised if Phase 1 doesn't last very long. 

I don't necessarily wish for the Casino to close but I dream that the Higbee building could one day return to being a department store...

Online down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #130 on: July 17, 2017, 09:36:05 AM »
^ I'd actually prefer for the Phase 2 site to be built as a casino with the Higbee Building returning to a retail use and re-anchoring Tower City. 

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #131 on: July 17, 2017, 09:49:54 AM »
^ I'd actually prefer for the Phase 2 site to be built as a casino with the Higbee Building returning to a retail use and re-anchoring Tower City.

Retail and anchor may no longer fit together in the near future
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Offline Baskervilles

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #132 on: July 17, 2017, 10:24:58 AM »
^ I'd actually prefer for the Phase 2 site to be built as a casino with the Higbee Building returning to a retail use and re-anchoring Tower City.

Retail and anchor may no longer fit together in the near future

I wouldn't mind seeing a retail anchor in the Higbee building but it seems like a long shot. I think a department store is a real long shot given the current retail landscape (I know the poster above said it was a dream). Despite our growing downtown population and renaissance department stores have become very rare downtown outside the 10-15 largest cities and I don't see that changing. I would be perfectly happy with something like one of the new amazon bookstores as an anchor though (seems more likely but still a long shot). That said, I hope the casino survives there because I'm terrified of it closing and nothing rushing in to fill the void.

There was an article in 2016 when Gilbert acquired the Avenue which mentioned that the casino phase 2 was dead and he was looking at the phase 2 site as a mixed use development. However, if I remember right there was no timetable mentioned for that mixed use development so its probably safe to put that at the bottom of the list given the other things on his plate. My dream of dreams is that they resurrect the old tower city master plan (attached) and put some height spaced out across the length that site. But if they have something ambitious like that in mind we might be waiting a long time.

I would probably put the Jacob's West Bank development halfway up the list. He's acquired a lot of the pieces he needs and he seems determined to get those remaining.



« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:26:11 AM by Baskervilles »

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #133 on: July 17, 2017, 10:52:22 AM »
My preference:

BEACON -- This project has essentially been brewing from the moment the 515 parking structure was built a decade ago with the promise of a residential tower on top.  Now Bob Stark has a chance to finally go beyond talk and really make his mark downtown building this most-important new tower in the heart of downtown's activity area... And for all the design back 'n forth with the CLC, it seemed like the project was/is a done deal... I won't feel comfortable though -- given the volatile nature of financing as well as this developer, himself, I won't feel comfortable until their are actually shovels in the ground.

PLAYHOUSE SQ APT. TOWERS -- This is such a fabulous looking, high-impact tower on a small surface parking lot in one of downtown's showpiece neighborhoods, it needs to get done tomorrow, if possible.  And like Beacon, it's really important to, not only develop large scale residential buildings, but to build new, attractive ones like the renderings of this project... Full steam ahead!

FLATS EAST BANK PHASE III -- Obviously FEB is a hit entertainment wise -- during warm weather (and to some degree, even when cooler) people are flocking to all the new establishments in/around the new boardwalk, in part, to eat, party and sight-see along the water.  UOer simplythis has questioned tenant stability in FEB and it does appear, at least, that there are a significant number of empty units in FEB's apartments, but I don't know the specifics and would rather not speculate.  But again, retail-wise, FEB is exploding; it's now even more crowded than the good-old-days of the late 90s... But Fairmount seems to have pushed Phase III way to its back burner.  They haven't updated their website on it at all and nobody, including our ace RE reporter/super snooper Michelle Jarboe, is talking about it at all.  FEB is great, but there needs a retail component -- right now people just sit on their asses to eat and drink beer; there needs to be more.  Also as a fan of transit and RTA's Waterfront Line, I'd love to see Phase III development on that big fat (and highly attractive to drivers) surface lot sitting in the middle of Phases I and II.

 

Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #134 on: July 17, 2017, 11:27:21 AM »
I doubt the Weston project, as proposed, ever comes to fruition. I had heard rumblings about them wanting to make a couple blocks of "brownstone" style row homes on those blocks. Not sure how true that is but it might not be a bad idea and a good way to get equity downtown.

There is a lot of tower worship on UO, but given rents/sales prices, construction costs, and local track record, townhouse developments and small rental buildings seem like much better bets to erase parking craters and add more residents beyond the office conversion wave.
"Cleveland, as you see, is not an apple, but a bunch of grapes each of which has its own particular pattern-some large, others small, some round, others long and narrow, some sweet, others sour, some sound, others rotten throughout."  -Howard Whipple Green, 1932

Offline jws

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Re: Cleveland: Which Project Will Be First and Why
« Reply #135 on: July 17, 2017, 12:58:37 PM »
There is a lot of tower worship on UO, but given rents/sales prices, construction costs, and local track record, townhouse developments and small rental buildings seem like much better bets to erase parking craters and add more residents beyond the office conversion wave.

I think they could fit with the vernacular, too, as long as the massing is significant enough.

Just straight up copy these, honestly: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5017912,-81.6616064,3a,70.9y,4.26h,107.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svyQsSkyrHm1IWFIxlc-c5g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

My biggest reservation with this type of construction right in Downtown is how little confidence I have in a developer to built an aesthetically worthy product.

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