Author Topic: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News  (Read 91415 times)

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Offline SixthCity

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #175 on: October 09, 2015, 07:05:58 PM »
^ Sometimes I hate democracy

I hate it when it's inserted where it shouldn't exist - which is, here.  By principle, democracy shouldn't interfere with property rights.  But just practically speaking, what the h*ll kind of system have we created that cranky Duck Island residents get to make the decision, as a group, what exists goes on vacant lots?!  Really?!  You couldn't conceive of a system more ripe for abuse.

Zoning was created as a downward ratchet to de-densify areas and exclude people.  It's just operating exactly as it was intended, here.
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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #176 on: October 09, 2015, 07:11:46 PM »
^Sounds like some of these cretins would be more at home in Duck Dynasty rather than Duck Island.  I hope they're all driven out of there with those kinds of backward attitudes.
My guess is that some of them were a part of the general Appalachian migration that came here but mostly settled in what's now the stockyards and Denison, Clark/Fulton areas.


Of course, I should talk to some of them and find out...
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 07:12:12 PM by skorasaurus »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #177 on: October 09, 2015, 10:26:22 PM »
^ Great article. Some comments from Berges allude to opposition to these developments. I've heard the same thing. Like the townhouses south of the animal clinic are basically dead in the water because of the residents across the street.
There's a lot of NIMBYs and to put it crudely, more 'I support the NRA' door stickers and confederate flags in duck Island than you'd think (more than one or zero).


Eventually they'll get squeezed out by the free market. Their vacant lots will soon be too expensive to keep vacant. If they truly are right wingers, then they should respect the will of the free market and not violate their own beliefs by welcoming government interference in the market -- even if it is to preserve their own self interest.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 10:28:12 PM by KJP »
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Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #178 on: October 11, 2015, 04:57:34 PM »
West 19th south of Abbey project is not dead in the water.  It's moving forward with a zoning change to allow for density.  While the neighbors are dead against it, it will most likely get done.
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Offline SixthCity

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #179 on: October 11, 2015, 05:50:31 PM »
Does anyone have info on the status of Brickman's project?
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Offline ClevelandBrowns

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #180 on: October 12, 2015, 12:39:20 AM »
^ Great article. Some comments from Berges allude to opposition to these developments. I've heard the same thing. Like the townhouses south of the animal clinic are basically dead in the water because of the residents across the street.
What proof do you have that this development is "Dead in the water"? Do you have inside information or has there been something reported to back this statement?

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #181 on: October 12, 2015, 06:38:53 AM »
What proof do you have that this development is "Dead in the water"? Do you have inside information or has there been something reported to back this statement?

It was just something I heard through my block club that the local club there was pushing back and didn't endorse the variances. I'm sure they'll find a way to get it done. If anything we've seen the zoning board has been pro development. Perhaps dead in the water was too strong a phrase. Lighten up, Francis.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #182 on: November 05, 2015, 12:06:28 PM »
http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2015/11062015/index.php

City Planning Commission
Agenda for November 6, 2015

NEAR WEST DESIGN REVIEW
NW2013-035   Gateway Bluffs Loft Townhouses (aka Duck Island Townhomes): Seeking Final Approval
Project Address: 2251-2271 West 19th Street
Project Representatives: Gillian Hall, Triban Investment
William Sanderson, Triban Investment
Note: This project received Schematic Design Approval on June 19, 2015.

A few of the graphics....









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Offline gotribe

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #183 on: November 05, 2015, 12:15:35 PM »
The plans above say east side of 19th, and south of Abbey.  Is that right?  That's where the new animal clinic is.  Where exactly is the development going?

Now I see, this is going behind the Animal Clinics parking lot.  Too bad it couldn't be on the corner of 19th and Abbey.  This doesn't seem to have much visibility. 
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 12:18:12 PM by gotribe »

Offline Urbanophile

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #184 on: November 05, 2015, 12:17:28 PM »
^ It is going just south of the animal clinic. You can see the animal clinic's parking lot on the left side of the first pic.

Offline SixthCity

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #185 on: November 05, 2015, 01:42:53 PM »
I like these a lot.
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Offline flee2thecleve14

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #186 on: November 05, 2015, 01:46:14 PM »
IIRC, these are the townhouses the Duck Island block club neighbors were trying to stop for "adding too much density" to the neighborhood. If this made it to city planning, did the developers get past those objections?

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #187 on: November 05, 2015, 01:47:54 PM »
These look great, hopefully a template for future development.
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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #188 on: November 09, 2015, 02:49:09 PM »
Just in case one still does not know where this is going (like me).

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #189 on: November 09, 2015, 04:44:07 PM »
These townhouses look like very impressive.  I kinda wish they fronted on the corner of W. 19 & Abbey, but the Animal Clinic, a handsome building, is only a few years old itself so destroy it so soon would be a huge waste.  Unfortunately it's a very large building and does block the corner where I'd rather see the townhouses.  Apparently development here wasn't well planned, esp since the desire, and current thrust, for more residential density for this immediate area has been on the minds of planners for quite some time.

Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #190 on: November 12, 2015, 10:03:24 AM »
Not sure how the design for these are different than anything you would see, somewhere, heck Anywhere USA.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #191 on: November 12, 2015, 10:10:10 AM »
How many different urban townhome designs are there?? Most look alike to me. As long as they're not "ugly" or people keep buying/renting them, who cares?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 10:10:32 AM by KJP »
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Offline Urbanophile

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #192 on: November 12, 2015, 10:33:15 AM »
I like the design. It's mostly red brick, and the design isn't so incredibly modern that it will look dated in a couple decades. Sometimes simple design is the best way to go.

Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #193 on: November 12, 2015, 11:04:24 AM »
If the basement of unit 21 is going to be habitable, that thing is going to be gigantic (5 floors!).
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 03:44:07 PM by StrapHanger »
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Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #194 on: November 12, 2015, 03:34:51 PM »
How many different urban townhome designs are there?? Most look alike to me. As long as they're not "ugly" or people keep buying/renting them, who cares?
How many townhome designs are there? Um, it's one of the few things in life that you can actually say infinite. There are infinite amount designs.
Take some pride in the community you live in and take some pride in designing something that isn't a replica of the one down the street. Is that what Uptown did? I'm not saying every project and every neighborhood has to be something like Uptown, it wouldn't fit. But, there are perfect examples of contextual, contemporary design in this very thread. People even commented that they liked it....gasp!

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #195 on: November 12, 2015, 03:40:34 PM »
Um, your opinion. They all look alike to me.

But like I said, who really cares as long as they sell/lease?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 03:41:05 PM by KJP »
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Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #196 on: November 12, 2015, 03:51:59 PM »
Um, your opinion. They all look alike to me.

But like I said, who really cares as long as they sell/lease?
Very true, it is an opinion. But in terms of who cares, there are lots that care, and also plenty who don't. If people didn't care, they're wouldn't be such things as architectural review boards and people would just put up the cheapest garbage they could.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #197 on: November 12, 2015, 03:54:30 PM »
cool
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Offline SixthCity

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #198 on: November 12, 2015, 04:02:39 PM »
If people didn't care, they're wouldn't be such things as architectural review boards and people would just put up the cheapest garbage they could.

Nonsense.  Consumers and producers would negotiate so that the product being offered was in measure with what the consumers are willing to spend.  The idea that we need a 3rd party architectural review board to determine what is "good" and "bad" (as if such a thing exists based purely on aesthetics) is total BS.  I agree with KJP - if builders are building and buyers are buying and both are happy, who cares?  Who should insert themselves into that transaction and on by what criteria are they going to determine what should and should not be built?  This comes on the heals of witnessing a truly horrifying Landmarks Commission meeting where the Commission's criteria was based on arbitrary feelings about how something looked and not on any clear principle of judgment.
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Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #199 on: November 12, 2015, 04:09:48 PM »
Each property affects the value of those nearby, and in doing so affects the tax base.  Thus everyone has a vested interest in everything around them, particularly in an urban setting.
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Offline SixthCity

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #200 on: November 12, 2015, 04:21:02 PM »
Each property affects the value of those nearby, and in doing so affects the tax base.  Thus everyone has a vested interest in everything around them, particularly in an urban setting.

Be interested to your heart's content.  That should not create a legal right.
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Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #201 on: November 12, 2015, 04:38:19 PM »
Each property affects the value of those nearby, and in doing so affects the tax base.  Thus everyone has a vested interest in everything around them, particularly in an urban setting.

Be interested to your heart's content.  That should not create a legal right.

In Houston it doesn't.  Other places like here, it kinda does, and that can cut both ways.  I agree with you completely regarding the Duck Island residents who fight everything urban that tries to come in.  Rights typically have limits.  I don't believe people in a city should be able to insist on a semi-rural lifestyle for themselves at others' expense.  But I do believe in design review, especially in historic areas where the overall architectural feel comprises so much of the value.
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Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #202 on: November 12, 2015, 04:44:37 PM »
Guys, whether it's related to Ohio City or this thread, it probably makes sense to confine the general discussion about the city's zoning and landmarks review process to the Cleveland Zoning thread: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,25222.msg776690.html#msg776690
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 04:44:55 PM by StrapHanger »
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Offline flee2thecleve14

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #203 on: December 09, 2015, 01:25:10 PM »
http://www.clevelandmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=E73ABD6180B44874871A91F6BA5C249C&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications::Article&mid=1578600D80804596A222593669321019&tier=4&id=439A919E784942138D7EDAC51560334E

CLE Magazine has a brief piece on Duck Island developments... One new piece of info I haven't seen elsewhere is "Duck Island resident Matt Berges owns 1.7 acres in the neighborhood. Along with his partners, Berges has plans for 60 housing units near West 18th and 19th streets, the first large-scale residential project since the 1900s." Is this referring to the large swath of land at the NW corner of Abbey Ave and W19th? A couple random structures were demolished to clear that site earlier this year. The map left off the McNulty townhouses, the townhouse cluster above by the Animal Clinic, and I'm sure a few other small projects. Also, looks like the Duck Rabbit Coffee is targeting a December opening, and Forest City Brewery a February one.

Offline Hootenany

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #204 on: December 09, 2015, 03:11:20 PM »
^There's a lot of really nice development quietly happening over on Duck Island.  The townhomes on 17th and Bradford are probably my favorite in the city.

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #205 on: December 10, 2015, 08:29:04 AM »
http://www.clevelandmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=E73ABD6180B44874871A91F6BA5C249C&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications::Article&mid=1578600D80804596A222593669321019&tier=4&id=439A919E784942138D7EDAC51560334E

CLE Magazine has a brief piece on Duck Island developments... One new piece of info I haven't seen elsewhere is "Duck Island resident Matt Berges owns 1.7 acres in the neighborhood. Along with his partners, Berges has plans for 60 housing units near West 18th and 19th streets, the first large-scale residential project since the 1900s." Is this referring to the large swath of land at the NW corner of Abbey Ave and W19th? A couple random structures were demolished to clear that site earlier this year. The map left off the McNulty townhouses, the townhouse cluster above by the Animal Clinic, and I'm sure a few other small projects. Also, looks like the Duck Rabbit Coffee is targeting a December opening, and Forest City Brewery a February one.

I'm excited about the development.  This small area is brimming with potential.  I just wish, in the scheme of planners, the Red Line were seen as more relevant as the transportation tool it was designed as and not just for this Greenway thing.

Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #206 on: December 10, 2015, 08:54:56 AM »
^There's a lot of really nice development quietly happening over on Duck Island.  The townhomes on 17th and Bradford are probably my favorite in the city.

I believe that is the same developer, so it may be an extension. Could be wrong though.

Offline SixthCity

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #207 on: December 10, 2015, 08:55:34 AM »
I think Matt Berges did the Bradford townhouses.
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Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #208 on: December 10, 2015, 12:54:27 PM »
West 17th & Bradford was a different developer.
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Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Duck Island: Development and News
« Reply #209 on: December 12, 2015, 11:08:26 AM »
Cross-posted from the demolition thread - Haab's Bakery building was demo'd earlier this week:




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