Author Topic: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles  (Read 25847 times)

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Online David

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #175 on: July 12, 2017, 02:57:35 PM »
I honestly don't think many folks in Columbus would care if that happened, if it meant appeasing people in other Ohio metros who think they're getting such a sh!tty end of the deal. I literally know NO ONE in Columbus who works for the Ohio Department of Education, Ohio Department of Transportation, etc. I don't think government jobs are a very big portion of Columbus' economy. I also know no one who even wants or ever wanted a government job. In Columbus, it's all about J.P Morgan Chase, Nationwide, Abercrombie, Limited, Cardinal, Battell, even the food service industry like White Castle, Bob Evans, Donatos and Wendys, etc. Government jobs are an after-thought for almost everyone. The private corporations in Columbus have a huge influence on the city - I would argue much more-so than state government.

Personally, if there were any government agency I would want to work for as a programmer, it's NASA and that's near Cleveland. I made friends up here with a NASA engineer who was telling me about their zero-gravity tunnel. Extremely cool sh!t!

It would be more important to cities like Dayton and Toledo and Youngstown to have those agencies than it would be for the big C's who have much more diversified economies.

I hear you.
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Online GCrites80s

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #176 on: July 12, 2017, 02:58:20 PM »
. You have to understand how weird that was for me, seeing the Cincinnati Enquirer going Rogue and not endorsing a Republican candidate, especially after working there. I'm guessing because for the first time in a long while, they felt that a Republican wasn't actually representing the best interest of locals. It's sad that some locals still just don't get it.

No serious Republicans ran.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 02:59:10 PM by GCrites80s »

Online David

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #177 on: July 12, 2017, 03:00:11 PM »
Who are the serious Republicans?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 03:00:47 PM by David »
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Online David

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #178 on: July 12, 2017, 03:19:09 PM »
I honestly don't think many folks in Columbus would care if that happened, if it meant appeasing people in other Ohio metros who think they're getting such a sh!tty end of the deal. I literally know NO ONE in Columbus who works for the Ohio Department of Education, Ohio Department of Transportation, etc. I don't think government jobs are a very big portion of Columbus' economy. I also know no one who even wants or ever wanted a government job. Personally, if there were any government agency I would want to work for as a programmer, it's NASA and that's near Cleveland. I made friends up here with a NASA engineer who was telling me about their zero-gravity tunnel. Extremely cool sh!t!

Have you ever been to one of the NASA open houses? It's a really cool experience. They actually have two gravity wells, one which is "outside" in a tower down into the ravine, and another that's a big pit that they dug. One of my elementary school teachers had a husband who was an engineer at Glenn so we all got to go on a field trip one time and throw stuff down the hole in the name of science, which was pretty exciting.

No, I've never been to one and I never knew anything about it but I'd love to go! He never  told me about that.

It just bewilders me that NASA has a big presence in Greater Cleveland and yet you never hear about it, even locally! That's awesome.

Also, what is going on with the air base in Cleveland, along Lake Erie on the east side of town near the lake? I know that the Coast Guard has a presence for obvious reasons but when I checked into it by googling it, literally all I saw was that the Department of Defense operates that site? It can't just be a launch site for a spectacular air-show held in Cleveland every year, right? What is going on with the Department of Defense's site on the east side of Cleveland? I literally can't find anything through Google.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 03:27:05 PM by David »
Modern architects recognize 300 masterpieces but ignore the other 30 million buildings that have ruined the world. - Andres Duany

Online BigDipper 80

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #179 on: July 12, 2017, 03:30:19 PM »
^The tours are one Saturday each month, and you just missed one, but each month covers a different topic and different parts of the facility. The August topic is solar cells, and they're actually showing off the drop towers on September 9 - might want to add that to your calendar!

What "air base" are you talking about? Burke? Or the DCMA offices near Gordon Park?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 03:33:56 PM by BigDipper 80 »

Online David

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #180 on: July 12, 2017, 03:42:39 PM »
I honestly don't even know what you're talking about. Burke and DCMA. You'll have to enlighten me. Believe it or not, Google isn't much help at all.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 03:44:37 PM by David »
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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #181 on: July 12, 2017, 03:47:39 PM »
Burke is Burke Lakefront Airport, between the Rock Hall and the USS Cod. It's just a general aviation airport but there may be some random Air National Guard stuff there from time to time. DCMA is just a government oversight agency but it looks like they have a little campus over in Bratenahl on Google Maps.

If it's neither of those, you might need to post a screenshot, because I have no clue what else you'd be talking about.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 03:55:59 PM by BigDipper 80 »

Offline surfohio

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #182 on: July 12, 2017, 04:17:31 PM »
Burke is Burke Lakefront Airport, between the Rock Hall and the USS Cod. It's just a general aviation airport but there may be some random Air National Guard stuff there from time to time. DCMA is just a government oversight agency but it looks like they have a little campus over in Bratenahl on Google Maps.

If it's neither of those, you might need to post a screenshot, because I have no clue what else you'd be talking about.

Found it :-)

Online Chas Wiederhold

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #183 on: July 12, 2017, 04:35:21 PM »
I honestly don't think many folks in Columbus would care if that happened, if it meant appeasing people in other Ohio metros who think they're getting such a sh!tty end of the deal. I literally know NO ONE in Columbus who works for the Ohio Department of Education, Ohio Department of Transportation, etc. I don't think government jobs are a very big portion of Columbus' economy. I also know no one who even wants or ever wanted a government job. Personally, if there were any government agency I would want to work for as a programmer, it's NASA and that's near Cleveland. I made friends up here with a NASA engineer who was telling me about their zero-gravity tunnel. Extremely cool sh!t!

Have you ever been to one of the NASA open houses? It's a really cool experience. They actually have two gravity wells, one which is "outside" in a tower down into the ravine, and another that's a big pit that they dug. One of my elementary school teachers had a husband who was an engineer at Glenn so we all got to go on a field trip one time and throw stuff down the hole in the name of science, which was pretty exciting.

No, I've never been to one and I never knew anything about it but I'd love to go! He never  told me about that.

It just bewilders me that NASA has a big presence in Greater Cleveland and yet you never hear about it, even locally! That's awesome.

Also, what is going on with the air base in Cleveland, along Lake Erie on the east side of town near the lake? I know that the Coast Guard has a presence for obvious reasons but when I checked into it by googling it, literally all I saw was that the Department of Defense operates that site? It can't just be a launch site for a spectacular air-show held in Cleveland every year, right? What is going on with the Department of Defense's site on the east side of Cleveland? I literally can't find anything through Google.

These are Nike Missle Sites. There is one in Wilmington, where I am from originally, that has now been converted to the HQ for Clinton County's Developmental Disabilities programs. Here is a list of the sites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nike_missile_sites and the Wikipedia page on Project Nike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Nike

These missile sites would form circles around cities that were deemed targets following WWII. Scroll to the end of the Wikipedia article for some cool maps.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 04:40:30 PM by Chas Wiederhold »

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #184 on: July 13, 2017, 11:36:56 AM »
Exploring Buffalo's waterfront renaissance; what can Cleveland learn from its Lake Erie neighbor? (photos)


By Susan Glaser, The Plain Dealer,
 sglaser@plaind.com

BUFFALO, New York - Pushing my way through a capacity crowd at Buffalo's Canalside park on a recent Friday evening, I couldn't get businessman Peter Florczak's words out of my head:

"As recently as five years ago, this area was nothing but a wasteland," he told me a few hours before, as we walked along the riverfront boardwalk.

What a difference a few years makes - especially on a balmy summer night, with the Buffalo Philharmonic playing in the background.

I set off for Buffalo a couple of weeks ago - it's closer to Cleveland than Cincinnati - with the purpose of exploring the city's emerging waterfront renaissance.

Cleveland and Buffalo have much in common, and not just their addresses on Lake Erie. These two once-thriving industrial towns are both fighting hard for a 21st-century reboot.

Waterfront development is seen as key to both communities' revival - important to both attracting new residents and encouraging a fledgling tourism industry.


http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/07/exploring_buffalos_waterfront.html#incart_river_home

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #185 on: July 13, 2017, 01:44:02 PM »
I honestly don't think many folks in Columbus would care if that happened, if it meant appeasing people in other Ohio metros who think they're getting such a sh!tty end of the deal. I literally know NO ONE in Columbus who works for the Ohio Department of Education, Ohio Department of Transportation, etc. I don't think government jobs are a very big portion of Columbus' economy. I also know no one who even wants or ever wanted a government job. In Columbus, it's all about J.P Morgan Chase, Nationwide, Abercrombie, Limited, Cardinal, Battell, even the food service industry like White Castle, Bob Evans, Donatos and Wendys, etc. Government jobs are an after-thought for almost everyone. The private corporations in Columbus have a huge influence on the city - I would argue much more-so than state government.

Personally, if there were any government agency I would want to work for as a programmer, it's NASA and that's near Cleveland. I made friends up here with a NASA engineer who was telling me about their zero-gravity tunnel. Extremely cool sh!t!

The top two employers in Columbus metro are The Ohio State University and the state of Ohio.   Over 50,000 jobs.  That definitely helps the C-bus economy.
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Offline KJP

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #186 on: July 15, 2017, 07:10:38 PM »
"Greater Cleveland is last in the country in number of jobs accessible in typical commute distance, creating a huge drag on economy and more air & water pollution."-- Vibrant NEO

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #187 on: July 15, 2017, 10:55:38 PM »
Remains Of Ancient Race Of Job Creators Found In Rust Belt
http://www.theonion.com/article/remains-of-ancient-race-of-job-creators-found-in-r-26490

That's a pretty well written and funny article. It's also from 2011!😂  The "Job Creators" have risen, a bit, since then.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 10:55:57 PM by jeremyck01 »

Online David

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #188 on: July 16, 2017, 01:14:18 AM »
I honestly don't think many folks in Columbus would care if that happened, if it meant appeasing people in other Ohio metros who think they're getting such a sh!tty end of the deal. I literally know NO ONE in Columbus who works for the Ohio Department of Education, Ohio Department of Transportation, etc. I don't think government jobs are a very big portion of Columbus' economy. I also know no one who even wants or ever wanted a government job. In Columbus, it's all about J.P Morgan Chase, Nationwide, Abercrombie, Limited, Cardinal, Battell, even the food service industry like White Castle, Bob Evans, Donatos and Wendys, etc. Government jobs are an after-thought for almost everyone. The private corporations in Columbus have a huge influence on the city - I would argue much more-so than state government.

Personally, if there were any government agency I would want to work for as a programmer, it's NASA and that's near Cleveland. I made friends up here with a NASA engineer who was telling me about their zero-gravity tunnel. Extremely cool sh!t!

The top two employers in Columbus metro are The Ohio State University and the state of Ohio.   Over 50,000 jobs.  That definitely helps the C-bus economy.

Its just weird to me, that the largest employer is a government agency. I literally know no one in Columbus who works for a government agency other than one person who worked for ODOT and was fired for no reason. I know that compared to other Ohio cities, Columbus does have a significant number of government jobs but I can't help but think that its prevalence and economic impact on the region are a little over-blown. It doesn't seem as though those jobs attract the best and brightest and it doesn't seem that they pay as much as the thriving private sector in Columbus. Like I've pointed out, Columbus has the highest wages in the state, within the private sector.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 01:16:31 AM by David »
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Online BigDipper 80

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #189 on: July 16, 2017, 08:20:51 AM »
Well "largest employer" and wages don't always align, although government jobs usually are decently-paid positions. Most states' largest employer is Wal Mart but economically that doesn't do many people much good. Also, it's 50,000 jobs in a region of about 2 million people. That's only less than 3% of columbusites, so the chance of you interacting with one, much less multiple, is still fairly small.

Offline PhilaDayphiaMan

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #190 on: July 16, 2017, 11:36:45 PM »
Is Ronald Reagan to blame for the decline of St. Louis? Some experts think so.

The growing economic gap between prosperous coastal cities and struggling cities in Middle America is often blamed on impersonal forces like globalization and technological progress. But some thinkers have started pointing to another culprit: little-noticed shifts in antitrust enforcement, beginning in the 1980s, that allowed a string of mega-mergers.

The argument goes something like this: Back in the 1980s, the Reagan administration changed antitrust policy to be more friendly to mergers. As a result, we got a lot more mergers, resulting in massive conglomerates that are disproportionately headquartered in a handful of big cities. The result: A few big cities have gained so many jobs that it’s producing a housing crisis. Meanwhile, a lot of midsize cities, like St. Louis, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh, have suffered from anemic economic growth. And having so much economic activity squeezed into a handful of cities may be holding back the American economy as a whole.

“Virtually all cities and metropolitan areas have seen precipitous declines in the number of locally owned corporations,” Mark Muro, an expert on urban policy at the Brookings Institution, told me earlier this year. That has “seriously degraded the quality and local focus of regional business leadership, philanthropy, and other resources.”

More below:
https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/7/14/14702240/antitrust-enforcement-decline-st-louis

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Offline UrbanSurfin

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #191 on: July 17, 2017, 09:44:25 AM »
Toledo and Dayton are two classic examples of this. Also, much of this is chronicled by Donald Barlett and James Steele in their 1991 book America: What Went Wrong. http://americawhatwentwrong.org/Barlett-and-Steele/ It grew out of a series they did for the Philadelphia Inquirer.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 09:45:23 AM by UrbanSurfin »
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Online David

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #192 on: July 17, 2017, 10:20:54 AM »
It makes perfect sense!
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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #193 on: July 17, 2017, 10:31:34 AM »
Many of Regan's poisons took effect so very slowly while Bush II's struck almost immediately.

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #194 on: July 17, 2017, 11:23:53 AM »
CNN aired a documentary on the 80s last week and they discussed leveraged buyouts and mergers.  These moves made great returns for investors on Wall Street but created job loss in manufacturing.  I'd like to see some more research on this topic but it is fascinating.

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #195 on: July 17, 2017, 11:31:05 AM »
Is Ronald Reagan to blame for the decline of St. Louis? Some experts think so.

The growing economic gap between prosperous coastal cities and struggling cities in Middle America is often blamed on impersonal forces like globalization and technological progress. But some thinkers have started pointing to another culprit: little-noticed shifts in antitrust enforcement, beginning in the 1980s, that allowed a string of mega-mergers.

The argument goes something like this: Back in the 1980s, the Reagan administration changed antitrust policy to be more friendly to mergers. As a result, we got a lot more mergers, resulting in massive conglomerates that are disproportionately headquartered in a handful of big cities. The result: A few big cities have gained so many jobs that it’s producing a housing crisis. Meanwhile, a lot of midsize cities, like St. Louis, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh, have suffered from anemic economic growth. And having so much economic activity squeezed into a handful of cities may be holding back the American economy as a whole.

“Virtually all cities and metropolitan areas have seen precipitous declines in the number of locally owned corporations,” Mark Muro, an expert on urban policy at the Brookings Institution, told me earlier this year. That has “seriously degraded the quality and local focus of regional business leadership, philanthropy, and other resources.”

More below:
https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/7/14/14702240/antitrust-enforcement-decline-st-louis



Very interesting article; and I think the writer is on to something... Obviously Cleveland was decimated by the loss of industry, jobs and corporate headquarters where, in the 70s and early 80s, we were one of the top 3 or 4 major corporate HQ in the nation... The biggest and most notable Cleveland corporate sacking was Standard Oil, our signature home-grown international conglomerate John D. founded during the industrial boom of the late 19th Century that led to Cleveland growing from promising small town to becoming a booming powerhouse industrial/corporate center of the 20th century.  But SOHIO was merged out of Cleveland -- first to AMOCO in Chicago and, then, BP.  Some SOHIO/BP big-wigs griped that Cleveland became highly corporate unfriendly following the Kucinich (as mayor) years of the 70s, but no doubt Reagan's merger-friendly policy had a primary effect... More recently, and on a much smaller scale, Shaker Heights' own OfficeMax was gobbled up and moved away in the early 2000s.  Again I would suspect Reagan's policy had a hand. 

In addition to this, so much of the wealth-concentration, destruction of the middle class can be traced to Reagan's corporate friendly, tax reform and trickle down policies that have seriously harmed America.  And yet current Republicans want MORE of it and many progressives, who should know better, have seemingly hit the Snooze button.  Unbelievable.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:34:59 AM by clvlndr »

Online Chas Wiederhold

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #196 on: July 17, 2017, 11:37:57 AM »
Cover story of the last issue of the Harvard Business Review discussed "Globalization in the Age of Trump" and talks about striking a better balance between global and local presence. Perhaps suggesting that these large, merged, organizations ramp up their presence in smaller, more scattered places.

https://hbr.org/2017/07/globalization-in-the-age-of-trump

Offline Punch

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #197 on: July 24, 2017, 01:40:58 PM »
This article coincides with a Democratic party rebranding called "Better Deal" in which they also complain about mega mergers.  I am thinking they want to shift the focus off of free trade, and NAFTA.

That said, the idea has merit, and it is worth looking into to see if the data supports the hypothesis. 

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Re: Rust Belt Revival Ideas, Predictions & Articles
« Reply #198 on: July 24, 2017, 03:10:47 PM »
Sadly, I recall people in Cincinnati cheering on Cleveland's decline in the 1980s.  Back then, any and all decline was blamed on "the unions", and Cincinnati was never a big union town.  At the same time Cleveland was on the decline, Cincinnati was just plain lucky in landing several major relocations thanks in large part to Carl Lindner's far-reaching business deals in the 1970s and 80s.  He and the Cincinnati old money kept their offices downtown and brought their purchases downtown in order to strengthen their family real estate holdings.  That is still going on today and is why Downtown Cincinnati avoided the total collapse that afflicted most of the rest of the United States.  P&G hasn't been under family control for over 50 years so, again, Cincinnati is simply lucky that they never picked up and left.   

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