Author Topic: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities  (Read 13820 times)

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Offline X

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #105 on: December 14, 2016, 08:07:29 PM »
I predict that at some point the burden of scrutiny will shift from the driverless cars to the human operated.  Probably when it's 2-1 driverless or thereabouts.  It will be the human errors that will stand out and leave people complaining about the dangers of human drivers.

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #106 on: December 14, 2016, 09:14:44 PM »
You can bully them to a complete stop then take off like a bat out of hell and a haze of burnout smoke.

Right. If you pull in front of a driverless car and then slam on your breaks, the driverless car is going to stop. Then you can just pull away because the computer isn't going to hold a grudge against you.

Unless...driverless cars take pictures of the license places of cars that cut them off and upload them to a central database...

It doesn't know if you had a mechanical problem or if you were avoiding a dog or human being in the road that moved away afterward. Especially with today's six foot tall monster SUVs and trucks.

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #107 on: December 14, 2016, 09:20:43 PM »
Fact is, unless somebody works with the public 40+ hours a week like bartenders, wait staff, retail workers and many others do they can't envision the insane things that the public does. The nerds that put these techie type things together work with the public 0 hours a year.

Online David

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #108 on: December 14, 2016, 10:05:55 PM »
Fact is, unless somebody works with the public 40+ hours a week like bartenders, wait staff, retail workers and many others do they can't envision the insane things that the public does. The nerds that put these techie type things together work with the public 0 hours a year.

Programmers who are designing the software are suppose to be attuned to the user experience. The trend with software development companies (or at least the successful ones, on the up-and-up) is having their programmers adhere to"Agile Methodology" which, in part, means they study and consider the user's actual experience as they're creating a backlog of features, and then go on to develop said software based on all of the feedback from users during stages of development. Essentially, disregarding all that and developing the software however you want based on pre-concieved notions of what people will need, without regard to testing and gaining / analyzing feedback, is called the "waterfall" approach. From my understanding, it's almost never used anymore, except in government agencies (the epic failure that was healthcare.gov, for example.)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 10:18:17 PM by David »
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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #109 on: December 14, 2016, 10:22:07 PM »
Throw those guys into marketing focus groups 40 hours a week for a while or at least put them behind the one-way mirror. Or better, put them in the car so it can dodge 2001 Buick Centurys andnutty 21-year-old Florida-Georiga Line fans in their smoky diesel flat black rollerskate-tired lifted trucks all day for 5 years rather than a bunch of 40-year old well-behaved Asians driving Accords in San Francisco.

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #110 on: December 14, 2016, 10:34:35 PM »
Unless...driverless cars take pictures of the license places of cars that cut them off and upload them to a central database...

Yeah what about freedom and all that rah rah rah when The Government knows everywhere you go?  When you're being filmed by a traffic jam full of Google streetview cars?  People tolerate that their phones know everywhere they go (or obviously some don't know it does since their cell phones ping in contradiction to their flimsy alibis) but will they tolerate the complete loss of privacy?  There is an element of anonymity out on the road that is sort of like comments at the end of a political story, and that's why a certain segment of the population really loves driving, and those people will say Uncle Sam is taking control of their car over their dead bodies.     

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #111 on: December 14, 2016, 10:57:03 PM »
Unless...driverless cars take pictures of the license places of cars that cut them off and upload them to a central database...

Yeah what about freedom and all that rah rah rah when The Government knows everywhere you go?  When you're being filmed by a traffic jam full of Google streetview cars?  People tolerate that their phones know everywhere they go (or obviously some don't know it does since their cell phones ping in contradiction to their flimsy alibis) but will they tolerate the complete loss of privacy?  There is an element of anonymity out on the road that is sort of like comments at the end of a political story, and that's why a certain segment of the population really loves driving, and those people will say Uncle Sam is taking control of their car over their dead bodies.     

It's very bizarre to me how people are so outraged over "the government" gathering their data when they're perfectly OK with Kroger and Target tracking every item they buy, and Google and Apple knowing everywhere they go. I wonder if Waymo taxis (the new brand name for Google cars) will have an incognito mode.
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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #112 on: December 14, 2016, 11:07:23 PM »
Not only are these companies collecting tons of data, they're also getting hacked all the time.  When Target got nailed a few years ago I didn't care because I've never been to one, but obviously billions of people have.  It's easy to imagine that hacked driverless taxi info could be used for all sorts of unethical activity like anticipating business deals and making what amount to insider trades. 

I'm really worried that the driverless taxis will need multiple cameras in the vehicles in order to provide evidence if someone vomits, damages the car in some other way, harasses another rider, etc.  I suppose that we're used to that when we park a car in a garage and use an elevator, but this would be an extreme level of monitoring. 

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #113 on: December 14, 2016, 11:52:09 PM »
Hold on just a second. I know I'm getting way off topic here, but lets just be clear: you have never been to a Target store? Is that correct?! I know someone who has never been to Target? WEEEEIRRRRD!!!! That's crazy. How the hell did you manage to never shop at Target?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 11:54:18 PM by David »
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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #114 on: December 15, 2016, 07:46:00 AM »
Unless...driverless cars take pictures of the license places of cars that cut them off and upload them to a central database...

Yeah what about freedom and all that rah rah rah when The Government knows everywhere you go?  When you're being filmed by a traffic jam full of Google streetview cars?  People tolerate that their phones know everywhere they go (or obviously some don't know it does since their cell phones ping in contradiction to their flimsy alibis) but will they tolerate the complete loss of privacy?  There is an element of anonymity out on the road that is sort of like comments at the end of a political story, and that's why a certain segment of the population really loves driving, and those people will say Uncle Sam is taking control of their car over their dead bodies.     

It's very bizarre to me how people are so outraged over "the government" gathering their data when they're perfectly OK with Kroger and Target tracking every item they buy, and Google and Apple knowing everywhere they go. I wonder if Waymo taxis (the new brand name for Google cars) will have an incognito mode.


I bet Waymo was spun off from Google to isolate the massive liability risk to one separate company.

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #115 on: December 15, 2016, 07:48:14 AM »
Hold on just a second. I know I'm getting way off topic here, but lets just be clear: you have never been to a Target store? Is that correct?! I know someone who has never been to Target? WEEEEIRRRRD!!!! That's crazy. How the hell did you manage to never shop at Target?


Target didn't really do much in Ohio until the early/mid-2000s. There's not really that many around as compared to your Master Kroger who must be visited.

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #116 on: December 15, 2016, 01:03:47 PM »
Self-driving Uber runs red light in San Francisco:


Uber is saying that this and another incident from this week were due to human error.  Sure, we believe you.  Perhaps Kellyanne Conway is moonlighting as Uber's spokesman.   

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #117 on: December 15, 2016, 01:13:26 PM »
Hold on just a second. I know I'm getting way off topic here, but lets just be clear: you have never been to a Target store? Is that correct?! I know someone who has never been to Target? WEEEEIRRRRD!!!! That's crazy. How the hell did you manage to never shop at Target?


No I haven't been there.  I'm not sure what they even sell beyond blenders and bath towels or whatever?  I don't buy stuff.  I don't "go shopping". 

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #118 on: December 15, 2016, 01:19:29 PM »
Self-driving Uber runs red light in San Francisco:

To make matters worse, Uber rolled out self driving cars without getting permission from the California DMV! Imagine if some taxi company just said, "We're going to put 1,000 unlicensed drivers on the roads tomorrow. In your face, DMV!"
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 01:47:33 PM by taestell »
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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #119 on: December 15, 2016, 01:41:41 PM »
^They're doing it just for the publicity.  They're very Trump-esque in presenting things that don't exist as settled matters. 

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #120 on: December 19, 2016, 01:46:38 AM »
I don't buy stuff.  I don't "go shopping". 

All Jake can say is that his life is pretty plain; he like watching the puddles gather rain.
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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #121 on: March 19, 2017, 12:57:15 AM »
Ran across this article about constructing parking structure​s to be convertible to other uses in the (near) future. What a great idea that I haven't really heard of. Seems smart. I'm unaware of anything like this in Cleveland. Maybe Ohio should get on board. Apparently  Downtown Denver already requires the ground floor of stand alone parking garages to be convertible to active uses today.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/10/15/denver-developers-future-parking-self-driving-cars/
 

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #122 on: March 19, 2017, 06:59:51 AM »
The new dunnhumby building in Cincinnati was actually designed like this - most of the floors of the parking garage can be converted into more office space when 84.51 needs to expand.

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #123 on: May 02, 2017, 06:30:38 PM »
Driverless buses being tested somewhere near Reno, NV:
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/05/proterra-eyes-the-future-of-autonomous-buses/524937/

The driverless city bus has the potential to really change everything because with the cost of the driver deleted from the equation, transit agencies will be able to operate widespread and very frequent service with their current levels of public support.  The better the level of service, the more people who will ride and pay a $1 bus fare instead of $15 to ride in a driverless taxi. 

The paradox though is that a transit agency can operate a driverless streetcar or light rail train for less than a driverless bus on the same arterial road.  So the argument for in-street rail is stronger than ever, especially since transit lanes could be digitally protected from driverless cars. 

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #124 on: May 02, 2017, 06:34:22 PM »
In short, we don't pay ourselves to drive our own cars.  We /do/ pay someone else to drive city buses and taxis.  So the finances change dramatically for a driverless bus or a driverless taxi, but NOT for our personal vehicles.  A swarm of driverless taxis, quite obviously, cannot compete price-wise with a comprehensive network of driverless buses.  Personal vehicles with driverless ability won't be significantly cheaper in the future.   

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #125 on: May 02, 2017, 06:38:46 PM »
There are so many servos, motors and actuators involved with driverless cars that Moore's Law can do little to make things cheaper over time.

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #126 on: May 11, 2017, 09:18:36 AM »
There are so many servos, motors and actuators involved with driverless cars that Moore's Law can do little to make things cheaper over time.

Professional driverless car shills are now pushing "single-width cars".  So single-passenger cars that will lane split like motorcycles and, in theory, at least double the capacity of existing roads.  Except they won't -- since they can only double the capacity in hum-drum areas and not the complicated areas that are the cause of all of the traffic congestion we have today.  Also, narrow one-seat cars would obviously share the roads with trucks, buses, etc., so their advantage would be limited. 

Also a "single-width" car will be almost or just as expensive to build and maintain as an ordinary "double-width" vehicle (yes, that is the pejorative they have coined for traditional 4-seat cars).   Less weight means more fuel economy, but there could be serious safety and ride-quality issues.  What is a fact is that they would double the capacity of most parking lots and garages, and that's where its real advantage would lie. 

As for a true revolution in ridesharing, electric bikes could get so cheap in the next 10-15 years that electric bikes similar to mopeds could offer a very cheap alternative to owning cars and way less sweat, obviously, than citibkes.  Yes, they already have a few electric-assist bikeshares around the globe, but no doubt in 10+ years they'll be way, way better. 



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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #127 on: May 11, 2017, 10:02:54 AM »
Maybe they will talk Uncle Sam into building special roads just for the credit card cars.

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #128 on: May 11, 2017, 10:29:21 AM »
Maybe they will talk Uncle Sam into building special roads just for the credit card cars.

Of course.  Except they'll be built with public funds but owned by private companies.  That's the great swindle they will attempt to pull. 

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #129 on: July 25, 2017, 09:19:25 PM »
I've been spending a lot of time in airports the past few months, and it has gotten me wondering: has anyone at Google or Tesla proposed electrifying and autonomizing airport ground fleets? The whole ground fleet is almost entirely small, slow vehicles that make short, predictable trips and spend a lot of time sitting around, which would seemingly make them ideal for switching to battery power and driverless car technology. I assume getting FAA approval would be difficult but I feel like it would be a better proof-of-concept in a closed, professional, government-controlled environment than trying to push it to the consumer first.

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #130 on: July 25, 2017, 09:37:15 PM »
Hmm, that seems like one of those things where there would be a huge upfront investment (not only the new equipment but multiple charging stations at each gate) and would take many years to pay off. But yeah, that might be a good thing of Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) funding if the airports would take the time to apply for it. It certainly sounds more deserving than some of the projects that OKI has allocated CMAQ funding towards in recent years.
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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #131 on: August 31, 2017, 03:50:19 PM »
I suppose I can put this here?

Self-Driving Shuttle Bus Shows up on Campus & OSU is Looking to Buy One

Sharped-eyed observers on Ohio State University’s main campus might have spotted an unusual-looking vehicle cruising around on Tuesday.

Olli is the brand name of a 12-passenger van produced by an Arizona-based company called Local Motors. Designed to be fully autonomous, the rectangular-shaped shuttle was on campus for a “promotional and video shoot,” according to Benjamin Johnson, Director of Media and Public Relations.

More below:
http://www.columbusunderground.com/self-driving-shuttle-bus-olli-at-osu-bw1

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #132 on: August 31, 2017, 04:09:17 PM »
I've been spending a lot of time in airports the past few months, and it has gotten me wondering: has anyone at Google or Tesla proposed electrifying and autonomizing airport ground fleets? The whole ground fleet is almost entirely small, slow vehicles that make short, predictable trips and spend a lot of time sitting around, which would seemingly make them ideal for switching to battery power and driverless car technology. I assume getting FAA approval would be difficult but I feel like it would be a better proof-of-concept in a closed, professional, government-controlled environment than trying to push it to the consumer first.

It depends. Most of those fleets are either owned by an airline or a ground handling company. To maximize their utility means they are not always doing the same actions at the same gate all day long. Many are shared and move around as the operation does working different types of aircraft. Some also can have quite long trips depending on the size of the airport. It's certainly possible though.

I think the bigger issue would be cost. Under the wing is generally where new investments are made last by an airline. There's lots of ground equipment out there that are decades old and held together by tape and bubble gum. If the price tag is too high for airlines and it's going to need to be quite low to beat the current system, no one will invest in it.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 04:10:48 PM by AmrapinVA »

Offline KJP

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #133 on: September 12, 2017, 01:38:14 PM »
Interesting article covers a lot of city-building issues including self-driving cars which they awesomely call "zombies" and which they are considering banning....

Paris deputy mayor questions London's approach to skyscrapers and public space
Marcus Fairs | 12 September 2017  13 comments

A project like London's now-abandoned Garden Bridge would "never" happen in Paris, according to its deputy mayor, who has criticised the UK capital's free-market approach to development.

"We don't accept to give the management of public space to the private sector," said Jean-Louis Missika, who is responsible for architecture, urbanism and economic development in the French capital.

The Thomas Heatherwick-designed Garden Bridge, which was scrapped last month, would have been controversially owned and operated by a private trust.

MORE:
https://www.dezeen.com/2017/09/12/paris-deputy-mayor-questions-london-approach-skyscrapers-public-space/
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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #134 on: September 12, 2017, 03:17:58 PM »
^It's amazing how the French are wise enough not to exhibit jealousy for or pursue London's stock exchange and financial sector.  They understand that that brings all sorts of snakes into the conversation. 

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Re: The Impact of Driverless Cars on Cities
« Reply #135 on: September 12, 2017, 08:56:57 PM »
^It's amazing how the French are wise enough not to exhibit jealousy for or pursue London's stock exchange and financial sector.  They understand that that brings all sorts of snakes into the conversation. 

Not to get too far off topic, but isn't France undergoing a financial crisis?

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