Author Topic: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)  (Read 128210 times)

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Offline Down_with_Ctown

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #525 on: June 04, 2017, 11:22:06 AM »
Two pics from the west and east ends of the Centric project earlier this weekend.  The ground floor appears to be completely built out.

One interesting note, at least for me--the pylons and foundation work extend all the way to the train tracks and west end of RTA's Little Italy Transit Station.  Will the project eliminate the portion of West 117th Street just north of Mayfield Road?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 11:26:54 AM by Down_with_Ctown »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #526 on: June 04, 2017, 11:52:13 AM »
Yes, and be replaced with a newly built West 115th Street.
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #527 on: June 09, 2017, 10:37:32 AM »
From Panzica's twitter account: Centric is on the rise in @inthecircle ! 272 unit apartment & retail complex coming in 2018!

« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 10:38:00 AM by KJP »
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Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #528 on: June 10, 2017, 01:13:14 AM »
I spoke with someone on the inside with Peter Rubin's Coral Group. According to him
this project has been stalled for over a month. A lot of financing is contingent upon
construction deadlines and they have not been met. He doesn't know when construction
will re-start.

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #529 on: June 10, 2017, 02:03:16 AM »
I can directly refute this claim with 100% accuracy. I will not go into detail, but this project is still going full steam.

Offline BCCLE1

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #530 on: June 10, 2017, 09:03:47 AM »
Having had some encounters with the Coral Group and properties it still owns, and others it has sold off or allowed to go into foreclosure, I will say the Coral Group has a reputation problem in some of the communities it has properties, and personally am not confident of it being the co. developing the Centric project.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #531 on: June 10, 2017, 09:19:51 AM »
I thought Midwest is now taking the lead on this project?
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Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #532 on: June 10, 2017, 10:27:00 AM »
According to my source Midwest is the problem. Just someone driveby next week.
There is nothing happening. I drove-by on 5/23 and that picture posted the other
day is about the same of what I saw on that day.

Offline jsz65

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #533 on: June 10, 2017, 07:55:13 PM »
I drive by every day and there is constant activity

Online Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #534 on: June 12, 2017, 04:18:35 PM »
I happen to drive by the project site today about 2:30 p.m.  There was activity but my quick glance only revealed about 7-8 workers on site and they were hard to detect.  At this stage I would have expected many more workers.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 04:33:11 PM by Htsguy »

Offline MidwestChamp

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #535 on: June 15, 2017, 05:58:00 PM »
There's activity.  My mom lives in Abington Arms, which is right outside of this project (in fact it took over half their parking lot and those "older" folks are HOTT...lol!  But I digress...seeing this project regularly I can say there is progress.  In fact work on the 2nd floor has begun.  I can't speak to the project timeline and if there supposed to be further along, but visually I see progress week to week every Sunday when I pick mom up for church.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #536 on: June 15, 2017, 08:06:03 PM »
A couple of my pictures from today....





And I intentionally showed in the above pictures that it is next to this.....

« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 11:27:53 AM by KJP »
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Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #537 on: June 22, 2017, 11:52:08 PM »
Once again I spoke with someone with the Coral Group and he says that this project has all but stalled.
Minimal activity going on.

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #538 on: June 23, 2017, 07:33:33 AM »
It has not stalled. NRP will be managing the property once complete. Their target lease-up date still remains the same.

Offline ethlaw

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #539 on: June 23, 2017, 09:27:20 AM »
I'm hearing such conflicting things about this. I've heard there was some kind of huge mess involving permits and property ownership. I hope that's wrong though.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #540 on: June 23, 2017, 09:33:46 AM »
I'm hearing such conflicting things about this. I've heard there was some kind of huge mess involving permits and property ownership. I hope that's wrong though.

Makes it difficult to explain the construction workers laboring there every day. You can't see them unless you get up high, such as I did when I went to the top level of the UH parking deck across Mayfield and took photos. I posted one of them above.
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Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #541 on: June 23, 2017, 03:57:37 PM »
Midwest Development Partners is leading this project now - no longer Coral. They took over from Coral when Centric replaced Intesa. Coral still has an ownership stake though, along with Panzica, but just how involved are they with the construction now?

Based on all their false promises before, I don't really believe anything I hear from Coral. KJP's photos of construction progress and workers seem like more trustworthy sources.

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #542 on: July 07, 2017, 06:09:59 PM »
And I can confirm from my own eyes yesterday (around 1:30pm) this whole site was swarming with construction workers and heavy machinery in motion. I personally feel this one is going up pretty quickly, considering how large it is and that its been all steel and concrete thus far (unlike Detroit/25 which is moving much faster, but is wood above the first floor).

Online Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #543 on: July 25, 2017, 11:04:05 AM »
 Panzica Construction‏ @panzicaconst 42m42 minutes ago

Team Panzica taking in the view from 3rd floor at Centric! #ClevelandRising @inthecircle #LittleItaly

https://twitter.com/panzicaconst/status/889854886833270784

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #544 on: September 04, 2017, 03:07:37 PM »
Two from the past week, as seen from the Little Italy-University Circle Red Line station....



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Offline PIB Guy

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #546 on: September 13, 2017, 08:23:59 AM »
The Picture that KJP posted from Panzica's Twitter shows that this entire building is post-tensioned concrete.  Think Parking garage design standards.  I'm really surprised by that, but happy to see they went with that type of design.  I think back to when Stonebridge was built with all light gauge steel. Much different construction standard here. 

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #547 on: September 13, 2017, 08:55:22 AM »
The 1st floor is concrete, but the upper levels are certainly wood construction.
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #548 on: September 13, 2017, 09:39:08 AM »
The Picture that KJP posted from Panzica's Twitter shows that this entire building is post-tensioned concrete.  Think Parking garage design standards.  I'm really surprised by that, but happy to see they went with that type of design.  I think back to when Stonebridge was built with all light gauge steel. Much different construction standard here. 

I didn't post that.
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Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #549 on: September 13, 2017, 10:17:26 AM »
The 1st floor is concrete, but the upper levels are certainly wood construction.

I'm no construction expert, by any means, but this seems to be a consistent method of framing living spaces in multi-unit residential buildings.  Euclid 116, which recently opened their student apts around the corner, and the Van Aken Center residences going up, are using a similar method.  The outer shell of these buildings, however, are sheathed in concrete, steel and often brick.

Offline rockitect

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #550 on: September 14, 2017, 07:53:31 AM »
The 1st floor is concrete, but the upper levels are certainly wood construction.

I'm no construction expert, by any means, but this seems to be a consistent method of framing living spaces in multi-unit residential buildings.  Euclid 116, which recently opened their student apts around the corner, and the Van Aken Center residences going up, are using a similar method.  The outer shell of these buildings, however, are sheathed in concrete, steel and often brick.

The building is what is called "5 over 2", which means 5 stories of wood framing over a 2 story concrete "podium". This project went back and forth a million times (even back to when it Intesa) about whether it should be steel, concrete, or wood (or a 100 hybrids of the 3). Its more typical right now to see 4 over 1 - which is what the most recent phase at Crocker and Snavely's Ohio City project are. Some voodoo magic was able to pulled here to make 5 over 2 work, which is a big piece of what allowed this project to finally get built.
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Offline PIB Guy

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #551 on: September 14, 2017, 08:32:36 AM »
The 1st floor is concrete, but the upper levels are certainly wood construction.
Clefans photo above taken from the third floor is clearly prepped for a concrete slab on deck.  You can clearly see PT cables draped across the deck along with horizontal #4 rebar and rebar dowels.  The outer walls may be wood, but for some reason the interior slabs are clearly concrete.  Therefore, there must me concrete columns extending up through the structure to support the decks.  Can't tell from any of the photos.  But in essence, its essentially a parking garage encompassed with a wood exterior. 

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #552 on: September 14, 2017, 08:47:37 AM »
So basically this is how a 5+2 building works. The height limit for wood framed construction is 5 floors. But you can get away with a taller building by using Type 1A construction as a podium for the 5 wood floors to sit on.

Even still, there's a height limit with this hybrid construction (I believe it's 85' off the top of my head) which essentially means that unless you're designing uncomfortably low ceilings you'll end up with a 2 story concrete podium with 5 wood framed floors above.

The height limit used to limit you to the equivalent of 6 stories which is why for a long time you saw a ton of 5+1 buildings going up. If you're ever in, say, Denver or Dallas take a look at all the new lowrise buildings. They're almost all 6 floors for this reason. Now they're all 7 stories because of the height limit changes within the most recent version of the International Building Code.

In this setup the floor of the 3rd floor would be concrete but everything above that plane is wood. If that photo is indeed taken from the 3rd floor then there's nothing out of the ordinary going on.

Online cle

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #553 on: September 14, 2017, 09:01:42 AM »
It is definitely 5 floors of wood over 2 floors of concrete. I did some investigating after some of the first photos of wood framing were posted. Standing on the third floor, they would be standing on the top of the concrete podium, so yes the floor of the third floor (or the ceiling of the second floor) would be concrete. They need a strong floor made out of concrete (or other projects may use steel) to build five floors of wood on top. There are no concrete decks above that floor. The "voodoo magic" that rockitect mentions was just a variance granted by the City based on a more recent version of the International Building Code (I don't recall which one).

Online down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #554 on: September 14, 2017, 09:03:25 AM »
I appreciate learning all of this stuff about construction techniques.  I was always under the impression that 4 stories was the maximum for stick construction.  I learn something new all the time.

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #555 on: September 14, 2017, 09:26:25 AM »
I appreciate learning all of this stuff about construction techniques.  I was always under the impression that 4 stories was the maximum for stick construction.  I learn something new all the time.

yeah same here. also you start to see things lately about new experimental wood apt towers too. the modern use of wood in apt building construction is fascinating and it really seems to be a hot topic these days. check this out -- its about tall timber towers:

https://www.curbed.com/maps/tall-timber-construction-projects-in-the-works

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Offline jmicha

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #556 on: September 14, 2017, 09:52:43 AM »
The way these 5+whatever buildings work is essentially treating them like two separate buildings, one on top of the other. The concrete podium is fully fire separated from the wood building above. It's an interesting method and one that unfortunately gets a bad reputation because so many of the 5+1 and 5+2 buildings look exactly the same. It's not an inherently bad form of construction but it's super easy to create the typical yuppy box with this method so that's what it's associated with.

Thankfully, as @mrnyc  pointed out, wood construction is becoming far more interesting these days. There's a visionary proposal out there for a supertall (300m+) wooden tower at the Barbican in London. Not going to actually happen, but a cool study in the use of heavy timber construction.

https://www.dezeen.com/2016/04/08/plp-architecture-cambridge-university-london-first-wooden-skyscraper-barbican/

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #557 on: September 14, 2017, 10:01:15 AM »
The 1st floor is concrete, but the upper levels are certainly wood construction.

I'm no construction expert, by any means, but this seems to be a consistent method of framing living spaces in multi-unit residential buildings.  Euclid 116, which recently opened their student apts around the corner, and the Van Aken Center residences going up, are using a similar method.  The outer shell of these buildings, however, are sheathed in concrete, steel and often brick.

The building is what is called "5 over 2", which means 5 stories of wood framing over a 2 story concrete "podium". This project went back and forth a million times (even back to when it Intesa) about whether it should be steel, concrete, or wood (or a 100 hybrids of the 3). Its more typical right now to see 4 over 1 - which is what the most recent phase at Crocker and Snavely's Ohio City project are. Some voodoo magic was able to pulled here to make 5 over 2 work, which is a big piece of what allowed this project to finally get built.

Good stuff, and thanks for that ... Does Centric's compromise in any way compromise the integrity of the finished building?

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #558 on: September 14, 2017, 10:02:55 AM »
I appreciate learning all of this stuff about construction techniques.  I was always under the impression that 4 stories was the maximum for stick construction.  I learn something new all the time.

yeah same here. also you start to see things lately about new experimental wood apt towers too. the modern use of wood in apt building construction is fascinating and it really seems to be a hot topic these days. check this out -- its about tall timber towers:

https://www.curbed.com/maps/tall-timber-construction-projects-in-the-works



Well, I guess this tends to answer my Q, that it doesn't... Interesting.... And I seriously doubt the City would certify construction if it did.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 10:04:10 AM by clvlndr »

Online cle

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Re: Cleveland: University Circle: Centric Development (formerly Intesa)
« Reply #559 on: September 14, 2017, 11:11:11 AM »
From what I understand, the City's current code only allows 4 over 1, but the code is outdated as it is based on the 2012 International Building Code. The newer International Building Code allows 5 over 2, so the City will allow it with a variance and will eventually update their own code.

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