Author Topic: Cleveland Heights: Development and News  (Read 69902 times)

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Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #105 on: September 23, 2013, 08:05:29 PM »
So the release says that 60 properties will be demolished...can anyone estimate about how many total properties exist in that Triangle?

I've previously said that I'd like to see the entire area flattened and redeveloped.  I don't have any specific ideas, but I have to believe that something decent (mixed-use?) could be put in if that area were given a fresh start.  The proximity to University Circle and Coventry has to be an attractive asset, right?  Or if that's a pipe dream, then the old adage of "addition by subtraction" seems applicable here, because for Cleveland Heights, that is one of its biggest trouble spots.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 08:06:34 PM by Clevelander17 »

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #106 on: September 23, 2013, 08:20:58 PM »
So are we saying they're going to level some of those beautiful apartment buildings along Superior?  I'm referring to the stretch from Glenmont to Mayfield.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 08:38:42 PM by MuRrAy HiLL »
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #107 on: September 23, 2013, 09:05:08 PM »
So are we saying they're going to level some of those beautiful apartment buildings along Superior?  I'm referring to the stretch from Glenmont to Mayfield.

In the 1950s, my mother raised my two oldest brothers in one of those apartment buildings at Glenmont and Superior in Cleveland Heights. She also lived in one at the south end of Glenmont, in Cleveland Heights. She's not sentimental like me, so I don't know if she'll care if those buildings get leveled or not. But I do know she liked living in those apartments even though her financial situation was difficult at the time.
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Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #108 on: September 23, 2013, 09:06:00 PM »
So are we saying they're going to level some of those beautiful apartment buildings along Superior?  I'm referring to the stretch from Glenmont to Mayfield.

I hope not, but my guess would be that some of them may be on the list because of decay and vacancy.  I believe Hts121 gave us a bit of history on these apartments a few months back and pointed out that these buildings are actually of lower quality than some of the other older apartment buildings around Cleveland Heights.  They may not be salvageable at this point.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #109 on: September 23, 2013, 11:05:27 PM »
60 buildings in that small area.  They're really going for the "burn the village to save it" strategy.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #110 on: September 23, 2013, 11:15:25 PM »
60 buildings in that small area.  They're really going for the "burn the village to save it" strategy.

Same approach that the Cleveland Clinic took with Cleveland's second downtown -- at Euclid and East 105th in the 1970s and into the early 80s. Note the sign on the marquee......

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/105th_and_Euclid_in_1981.jpg
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Offline X

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #111 on: September 23, 2013, 11:31:18 PM »
That approach has been taken over and over in Cleveland.  Has it worked anywhere?

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #112 on: September 24, 2013, 09:37:10 AM »
I don't think it can be argued that some of those buildings have to go.  Ideally, the entire triange would be leveled and developers could work with a clean slate.  That land could be a gold mine if that was done given its proximity to the Coventry strip, LI, UC, Cumberland Park, and the Rec Center.  But I fear this is going to end up looking like Hough, with just scattered residences.  I assume there are many homeowners who like their house just fine and won't willingly just let it be demolished.

I guess if I was in charge here, I would require nothing but contiguous demos.  No taking down one house and then another 2 doors down and then another 4 doors down.
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Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #113 on: September 24, 2013, 10:17:06 AM »
^You'd blow your whole budget on ED litigation.

That approach has been taken over and over in Cleveland.  Has it worked anywhere?

Northern Tremont, southern Ohio City, Central, off the top of my head.  And it's worked no worse than letting rotted apartment building stand till they start crumbling to the ground, which has also been tried all over Cleveland, especially East Cleveland.

I have no idea which buildings in particular are in their sites and what exactly the cities and landbank plan for the land, but carving some parking lots into the long wall of apartment buildings on that part of Superior might even help the occupied buildings last longer.  I know it's come up before, but are the streetview images hopelessly out of date for this neighborhood now?  How many of the bigger buildings are visibly vacant now?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 10:18:59 AM by StrapHanger »
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Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #114 on: September 24, 2013, 04:00:27 PM »
Look, this area is a mess, one of the most blighted areas of Cleveland Heights.  I don't know what the long-term plan is or should be, but CH (and EC, which has bigger fish to fry) has let it go for far too long.  Here's another radical idea if CH/EC can get rid a significant portion of those buildings: Close off Superior north of Mayfield and extend the park/recreation area west.  There are a lot of advantages to this idea.

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #115 on: October 16, 2013, 01:45:54 PM »
A few bits of news from Severance:

According to one of the managers for Severance, now that Walmart is out of here (woo!!), two of the new stores that will be filling the space are Villa, and Citi Trends. Not to happy about that last one.... I almost feel like it would be better to have empty space here.

Unrelated to the Walmart departure, Big Lots is allegedly coming to fill in the old Borders space. Decent news there at least. 

Sallys has pushed back their moving date to Oakwood Commons until January.

GNC, who originally was going to move when they opened a new store in Cedar Center, is no longer closing the store at Severance.  They will be having both.

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #116 on: October 16, 2013, 02:11:33 PM »
^I drove by the new Wal Mart on Warrensville a couple of weeks ago ( I don't really go that way much) and it really is worse than I could have imagined.  It looked like I had just been transported to Streetsboro.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #117 on: October 16, 2013, 02:16:20 PM »
According to one of the managers for Severance, now that Walmart is out of here (woo!!), two of the new stores that will be filling the space are Villa, and Citi Trends. Not to happy about that last one.... I almost feel like it would be better to have empty space here.

Why?
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #118 on: October 16, 2013, 02:36:41 PM »
^I drove by the new Wal Mart on Warrensville a couple of weeks ago ( I don't really go that way much) and it really is worse than I could have imagined.  It looked like I had just been transported to Streetsboro.

Streetsboro? 
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Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #119 on: October 16, 2013, 02:43:07 PM »
From my understanding, theyre theyre on the larger end sizewise. This would then be taking up a good deal of the vacated Walmart space, most likely not leaving any room for my dream of a Kohls within walking distance.

OH, I almost forgot, a Taco Bell is rumored to be building on an outlot near Ihop

Offline Foraker

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #120 on: October 16, 2013, 04:38:37 PM »
I hope the new slate of leaders coming in to city hall next year will compare Severance to the traditional shopping and dining centers in Cleveland Heights, such as Coventry, Cedar-Fairmount, and Cedar-Lee, and find a way to push Severance in that direction rather than continuing the exurban development pattern currently "thriving" at Severance.  Has anyone compared the city tax revenue per acre along Severance Circle to the revenue-per-acre of the traditional business districts?

Offline MidwestChamp

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #121 on: October 16, 2013, 04:54:19 PM »
I hope the new slate of leaders coming in to city hall next year will compare Severance to the traditional shopping and dining centers in Cleveland Heights, such as Coventry, Cedar-Fairmount, and Cedar-Lee, and find a way to push Severance in that direction rather than continuing the exurban development pattern currently "thriving" at Severance.  Has anyone compared the city tax revenue per acre along Severance Circle to the revenue-per-acre of the traditional business districts?

I dunno about this.  New development that would mimic the traditional business districts would to me have a Crocker Park / Legacy Village feel, not be authentic and would run the danger of hurting the very retail strips you mentioned.  It's a shame the Severance estate is gone and I know there's no hope for that to return, so since it's been a mall for half a century and I think at this point it's ok if the big boxes remain.  The new Walmart not withstanding, my hope is the presence of Severance gives big boxes a somewhat hidden place to reside, allowing for the authentic retail strips to thrive elsewhere. 

Offline smith

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #122 on: October 16, 2013, 07:45:20 PM »
I hope the new slate of leaders coming in to city hall next year will compare Severance to the traditional shopping and dining centers in Cleveland Heights, such as Coventry, Cedar-Fairmount, and Cedar-Lee, and find a way to push Severance in that direction rather than continuing the exurban development pattern currently "thriving" at Severance.  Has anyone compared the city tax revenue per acre along Severance Circle to the revenue-per-acre of the traditional business districts?

Severance Towne Center consists of 53.06 acres and they are paying $2.2m per year in property taxes.  Not sure how that compares to the other business districts.

Offline jam40jeff

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #123 on: October 16, 2013, 08:18:42 PM »
I hope the new slate of leaders coming in to city hall next year will compare Severance to the traditional shopping and dining centers in Cleveland Heights, such as Coventry, Cedar-Fairmount, and Cedar-Lee, and find a way to push Severance in that direction rather than continuing the exurban development pattern currently "thriving" at Severance.  Has anyone compared the city tax revenue per acre along Severance Circle to the revenue-per-acre of the traditional business districts?

Severance Towne Center consists of 53.06 acres and they are paying $2.2m per year in property taxes.  Not sure how that compares to the other business districts.

53.06 acres sounds low.  Are you including the parking lots and outparcels?

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #124 on: October 16, 2013, 08:58:55 PM »
I hope the new slate of leaders coming in to city hall next year will compare Severance to the traditional shopping and dining centers in Cleveland Heights, such as Coventry, Cedar-Fairmount, and Cedar-Lee, and find a way to push Severance in that direction rather than continuing the exurban development pattern currently "thriving" at Severance.  Has anyone compared the city tax revenue per acre along Severance Circle to the revenue-per-acre of the traditional business districts?

Severance Towne Center consists of 53.06 acres and they are paying $2.2m per year in property taxes.  Not sure how that compares to the other business districts.

53.06 acres sounds low.  Are you including the parking lots and outparcels?

Keep in mind, most of "Severance" isnt just Severance Town Center. Theres three high rise apartment buildings, city hall, banks, the Coral housing development, the Post Office, Time Warner, the medical office tower, Kaiser, and a church

EDIT: and that one office building turned condos
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 09:00:08 PM by PoshSteve »

Offline smith

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #125 on: October 16, 2013, 09:06:25 PM »
I hope the new slate of leaders coming in to city hall next year will compare Severance to the traditional shopping and dining centers in Cleveland Heights, such as Coventry, Cedar-Fairmount, and Cedar-Lee, and find a way to push Severance in that direction rather than continuing the exurban development pattern currently "thriving" at Severance.  Has anyone compared the city tax revenue per acre along Severance Circle to the revenue-per-acre of the traditional business districts?

Severance Towne Center consists of 53.06 acres and they are paying $2.2m per year in property taxes.  Not sure how that compares to the other business districts.

53.06 acres sounds low.  Are you including the parking lots and outparcels?

Keep in mind, most of "Severance" isnt just Severance Town Center. Theres three high rise apartment buildings, city hall, banks, the Coral housing development, the Post Office, Time Warner, the medical office tower, Kaiser, and a church

EDIT: and that one office building turned condos

That's everything that is owned by the ownership group that has the main retail (and associated parking).  It wouldn't include out parcels like the apartments, city hall, time warner, church (old athletic club), post office, former baker's square, etc. 

Offline jam40jeff

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #126 on: October 16, 2013, 09:31:33 PM »
Oh, OK, thanks.  I assume that would include IHOP then?

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #127 on: October 17, 2013, 09:12:24 AM »
Just think of Severance as the City dump and it is a lot easier to deal with.  All of the big box stores, the fast food restaraunts, the communist-bloc style highrises, the suburban office towers, the cookie cutter private housing developments, and City Hall are all quarantined within its confines.
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Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #128 on: October 17, 2013, 10:17:21 AM »
You know it is strange....of any community (city) in Northeast Ohio, given the nature and mind set of the resident population (along with the education level and the fact that they are well traveled), you would think that Cleveland Heights would be fostering creative urban development principles that you see across the nation.  Obviously resources are a problem but again, that is a problem every where.  I think the powers that be might know what they want but they are just TIRED, and end up settling.

More and more Lakewood is becoming what CH should be (although they still make many bone headed decisions) even though they also have to deal with an aging housing stock like CH (that's an understatement...much of it is in really bad shape although it is difficult to see from the curb) and don't have the advantage of University Circle being at it's door step.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #129 on: October 17, 2013, 03:21:21 PM »
Lakewood's city leaders don't have to deal with the legacy of what a place like Severance has become.  I'd like to see a comprehensive, well thought-out plan for the future of that land.  We all realize that how that land came to be what it is today was probably a big mistake.  The mall that was constructed in the early 1960s was an attempt by the city to try to compete with what was going on in second-ring suburbia at the time.  Instead of trying to reinvent the place every few decades (the move to Big Box with Walmart anchoring was also a mistake), eventually I think that some leadership needs to come from City Hall and a plan for something better that is sustainable in the long-term needs to be developed.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 03:22:21 PM by Clevelander17 »

Offline jam40jeff

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #130 on: October 17, 2013, 03:25:18 PM »
There are many great things about Lakewood, but I'm not convinced they're headed in the right direction in terms of urban development, either.  They tore down a historic movie theater for a McDonald's and now want to tear down another.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #131 on: October 17, 2013, 03:34:19 PM »
Once you take away Severance, the rest of the business districts in Heights are enviable compared to the rest of NEO.  Go and stand at the Taylor of Taylor and Cedar to see the difference in development strategies between CH and UH.
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Offline StrapHanger

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #132 on: October 17, 2013, 03:35:56 PM »
^^^Actually, I think Severance was more of an attempt to compete with Shaker Square and Downtown than the second ring. I don't think there was much high quality retail in the outer burbs back in the early 1960s.  Maybe a little bit at East Gate or something(?).

I've always found it a little surprising that there's never been an upscale, traditional retail strip in Cleveland Hts or Shaker Hts, the kind you find in tony suburbs of other cities.  Just seems like a quirk of history, with Shaker Square filling that niche for several decades, then Severance for the next couple, and then the middle ring malls.  At some point there will probably be a critical mass of shopping dollars in the City of Cleveland again and I bet we see a new high quality shopping cluster emerge either downtown, University Circle, or Cleveland Hts.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 03:36:30 PM by StrapHanger »
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Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #133 on: October 17, 2013, 04:40:13 PM »
Once you take away Severance, the rest of the business districts in Heights are enviable compared to the rest of NEO.  Go and stand at the Taylor of Taylor and Cedar to see the difference in development strategies between CH and UH.

Thats one of my favorite things to show people when talking about the difference between Cleveland Hts and neighboring suburbs. Although you just have to drive a few blocks up Taylor to see that Cleveland Hts did the same exact thing with the strip center with Pizza Hut and Family Dollar. Parking out front, set far back from the road with a lawn at least the size of the parking lot, and right across from the gorgeous Taylor Tudors, apartments over street level retail spaces, right along the sidewalk. I feel like this city has been pretty bipolar in development.

BTW, does anyone know what use to be where that strip center is now? I hope it wasnt more Tudors like across the street... This has been bothering me since I moved here.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #134 on: October 17, 2013, 05:16:29 PM »

BTW, does anyone know what use to be where that strip center is now? I hope it wasnt more Tudors like across the street... This has been bothering me since I moved here.

"South Taylor has lost some houses but also a few commercial buildings - for example, the small restaurant at 2104 and the buildings at 1901-39, demolished for Taylor Commons Plaza."
http://www.chhistory.org/FeatureStories.php?Story=LostClevelandHeights


There was a pretty large May Company that opened in the 1950s at Cedar-Center Plaza at Warrensville that we frequently visited when I lived in Highland Heights in the 1970s. It was often called May's In The Heights. But Eastgate and Golden Gate didn't open until I-271 was built in the mid-60s. Eastgate also had the coliseum entertainment complex which was just a big money laundering operation for the mob (as was the Front Row Theater). Richmond Mall also didn't open until the 1960s.

When we wanted to shopping for basic stuff, we went to May's In The Heights, to Severance or we went downtown, which had the merchandise the suburban stores didn't have. Damn... I'm starting to sound like my father!

OK, enough fun! Back on topic! ;)
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Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #135 on: October 17, 2013, 06:52:30 PM »

BTW, does anyone know what use to be where that strip center is now? I hope it wasnt more Tudors like across the street... This has been bothering me since I moved here.

"South Taylor has lost some houses but also a few commercial buildings - for example, the small restaurant at 2104 and the buildings at 1901-39, demolished for Taylor Commons Plaza."
http://www.chhistory.org/FeatureStories.php?Story=LostClevelandHeights

Thanks! I dont think Im going to be getting around to anything else tonight now that I have that site to go thru... I like to imagine what this neighborhood was like before that eyesore was put in, and now I can a little better!

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #136 on: October 17, 2013, 09:14:44 PM »
Once you take away Severance, the rest of the business districts in Heights are enviable compared to the rest of NEO.  Go and stand at the Taylor of Taylor and Cedar to see the difference in development strategies between CH and UH.

Yeah, sometimes when I'm over there (which is almost daily) I let my imagination run wild and think about how cool it would be if University Heights encouraged someone to tear down that vacant old KFC building and put in something to mirror the vibrancy that Melt has brought across the street.  Some sort of developmnt that comes up next to the street and maybe even calms northbound traffic a bit with street parking.  It seems to me that it must only be another one of those flukes of early 20th century cartography that that Northeast corner of Cedar-Taylor is part of University Heights and not Cleveland Heights.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #137 on: October 17, 2013, 09:17:27 PM »
There was a pretty large May Company that opened in the 1950s at Cedar-Center Plaza at Warrensville that we frequently visited when I lived in Highland Heights in the 1970s. It was often called May's In The Heights. But Eastgate and Golden Gate didn't open until I-271 was built in the mid-60s. Eastgate also had the coliseum entertainment complex which was just a big money laundering operation for the mob (as was the Front Row Theater). Richmond Mall also didn't open until the 1960s.

When we wanted to shopping for basic stuff, we went to May's In The Heights, to Severance or we went downtown, which had the merchandise the suburban stores didn't have. Damn... I'm starting to sound like my father!

OK, enough fun! Back on topic! ;)

May's ON the Heights. ;)  That building actually existed until the early 2000s, I believe, before UH's epic disaster of a retail development replaced it.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #138 on: October 18, 2013, 09:31:58 AM »
I believe it was a May Company unitl the late 80's or early 90's when Kauffmann's bought them out.
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Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #139 on: October 18, 2013, 11:10:56 AM »
^Just a name change...Kaufmann's and May Co were the same company...just different divisions...and yes...growing up (in Maple Hts.) we knew it as May's ON the Heights (it was the more upscale May's (compared to Southgate) if that really was possible...it was not in the same league as Higbee's and certainly not Halles).

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