Author Topic: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development  (Read 127470 times)

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Offline KJP

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Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« on: January 06, 2011, 11:13:05 PM »
This thread is devoted to news and discussion about the redevelopment of Cleveland's most troubled neighborhoods, primarily on the east-side. It seems that many developments, including those of a large-scale, have been overlooked on this board.

If there are already threads about a particular development project, please continue to post articles in those threads. If not, feel free to post them here rather than in the random developments thread.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 05:10:29 PM by MayDay »
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Offline ClevelandOhio

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 06:36:08 PM »
Its interesting to see that most of the reinvestment mostly only happens in areas of the city that have a somewhat large white population. Tremont, Ohio City, North Collinwood, University, Downtown, etc. The westside also tends to have a larger white population, which is why, most likely, most of the reinvestments seem to occur on the west side, and why most of UOers seem to favor the west side.

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 07:55:31 PM »
^I don't know if most UOers favor the west side.  There's a lot of heights, University Circle, Asiatown and Shaker Square enthusiasm here too.  And in any case, the reinvestment follows certain patterns that may largely overlap with racial demographics, but I don't think it's fare to say that the connection is quite that direct.
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Offline ClevelandOhio

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2011, 08:01:09 PM »
^I don't know if most UOers favor the west side.  There's a lot of heights, University Circle, Asiatown and Shaker Square enthusiasm here too.  And in any case, the reinvestment follows certain patterns that may largely overlap with racial demographics, but I don't think it's fare to say that the connection is quite that direct.

I was saying why jam40jeff might feel there is a bias. And even if you look in those areas you mentioned, as I said, University Circle and the Asiatown area both have large white populations, with Asiatown aslo having a certain niche and Shaker Square having the historical aspect. And it does appear to be at least somewhat relavent.

Offline Rustbelter

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 02:26:53 PM »
There definitely is a west-side bias on this board.  Collinwood is in better shape than Gordon Square was not too long ago (and I still think the Grovewood Tavern is better than any restaurant there), has a nice housing stock, and has the Beachland Ballroom to build upon.  It is no more "isolated" than Old Brooklyn.  Really, I don't see any reason North Collinwood/Waterloo couldn't become one of the great Cleveland neighborhoods with some vitalization efforts.  I don't understand why someone would not want anyone to put anything in the neighborhood "because the shops could go to Gordon Square or Ohio City".  The same logic could be used on any neighborhood.  Why does Tremont exist instead of those places just setting up shop in Gordon Square or Ohio City?  How about E. 4th?  Couldn't those places just have been located in the WHD?  IMO it is a great thing to develop multiple great neighborhoods rather than put all your eggs into one basket and let the rest of the city go to pot.  I say good luck to Waterloo.

It's not about not wanting investment in Collinwood, it's about being realistic. The west side has the best momentum (on a neighborhood level) and that is the area which will likely reach the tipping point first. Like I said earlier, it's about creating a critical mass and building off of that. That's typically how it has worked in other cities.

It's not about a west side bias either, because I don't think anyone here is discrediting the growth potential of University Circle. Questioning why development happened in Tremont instead of downtown or Ohio city does not make sense. The fact that development did happen there is largely due to proximity to other areas with potential.

One of Cleveland's biggest problems in my mind is the lack of concentration of good neighborhoods and amenities. All the good parts of town seem to be next to a rough areas instead of growing off of each other.

Its interesting to see that most of the reinvestment mostly only happens in areas of the city that have a somewhat large white population. Tremont, Ohio City, North Collinwood, University, Downtown, etc. The westside also tends to have a larger white population, which is why, most likely, most of the reinvestments seem to occur on the west side, and why most of UOers seem to favor the west side.

Right or wrong, this is just the reality of how it is. It's not just in Cleveland either. Go to Chicago and you don't see much gentrification in majority black neighborhoods. It all occurs in white or Hispanic areas. Perhaps only NYC and D.C. have seen substantial gentrification in majority black neighborhoods, and we all know the economic factors in those cities are much stronger drivers than in cities like Cleveland.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2011, 12:11:33 AM »
Right or wrong, this is just the reality of how it is. It's not just in Cleveland either. Go to Chicago and you don't see much gentrification in majority black neighborhoods. It all occurs in white or Hispanic areas. Perhaps only NYC and D.C. have seen substantial gentrification in majority black neighborhoods, and we all know the economic factors in those cities are much stronger drivers than in cities like Cleveland.

I disagree. I just don't think the PD covers developments in Cleveland's black neighborhoods very well so many of us don't know about it. Some of the market-rate and subsidized housing developments in mostly black neighborhoods are quite large and have had transformative impacts on the surrounding areas, such as Arbor Park/St. John's Village West/The Villages of Central, Beacon Place, Lexington Village, Glenville Homes, Parkside Townhomes/Tanner Court and some others I'm probably overlooking.

Many of those areas (especially in Glenville) are covered in this thread which are home to many black middle class families and young professionals....
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=18871.0
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Offline TBideon

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2011, 12:23:59 AM »
That would make for a damn fine front page article - I haven't even heard of half of those places, nor was I aware of their momentum other than Hough

Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2011, 12:32:47 PM »
CMHA

NEW CONSTRUCTION OF TOWNHOMES ON EAST 115TH STREET

The project consists of one 4-unit townhome building and one 2-family building. The 4-unit townhome will consist of four 3-bedroom units. The 2-family townhome will consist of two 2-bedroom units which will be fully compliant with ADA Accessibility Guidelines and Uniform Federal Accessibility Standards (UFAS). Site work will include a new parking area with a new access drive and a small green space. The UFAS units are slab on grade. The townhomes will have basements.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2011, 12:38:06 PM »
UO likes diverse neighborhoods.  We criticize Crocker Park but praise Steekyard Commons.  If there is a percieved bias, it is because many of the east side city proper neighborhoods are not diverse.
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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2011, 01:20:11 PM »
CMHA

NEW CONSTRUCTION OF TOWNHOMES ON EAST 115TH STREET

The project consists of one 4-unit townhome building and one 2-family building. The 4-unit townhome will consist of four 3-bedroom units. The 2-family townhome will consist of two 2-bedroom units which will be fully compliant with ADA Accessibility Guidelines and Uniform Federal Accessibility Standards (UFAS). Site work will include a new parking area with a new access drive and a small green space. The UFAS units are slab on grade. The townhomes will have basements.

Where did you find that?  And do you know where on East 115th that is located?

Online jam40jeff

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2011, 01:38:58 PM »
Oy, I see my one comment got a spinoff thread.

Regardless of my opinion on the racial issues potentially involved, I actually meant my comment to be more of a "we're divided by the river" type thing.  I never used to feel the east/west divide was as strong as many made it out to be, but I have increasingly noticed on this board that it seems as if (1) there are more west siders than east siders and that (2) it is assumed by many west siders that everything good about the city is on the west side, downtown, or in UC/SS.

Then again, maybe I was making a mountain out of a molehill.  Either way, I wasn't meaning that people were discrediting east side development due to race.  But it is definitely interesting to have that discussion.  So carry on, just please don't make my post into something more than I meant it to be.

Offline lewarctj

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011, 02:31:33 PM »
I think one thiing that may be overlooked is that a lot of the development on the East side nabes are public housing projects and not much private development as seen in the west side neighborhoods.  Having a private developer put money into a neighborhood tends to be more newsworthy then a new CMHA housing project. 

Offline 8ShadesofGray

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2011, 02:53:28 PM »
That's true to an extent, although it seems like particularly among NPI's Strategic Investment Areas on the east side (Fairfax, Glenville and Buckeye), there's been a lot of development beyond public housing. Looking at Fairfax over the past decade as an example, you have the $17 million Quincy Place, the $430K Quincy Park, the $5.5 million Langston Hughes Center, the $160 million Juvenile Justice Center, the $23 million Global Cardiovascular Innovation Center, proposed grandparent housing, as well as a lot of efforts around strategic land assembly, strategic demolition and neighborhood clean-ups. I think a lot of this is less driven by the forum intentionally casting a blind eye toward African American neighborhoods but more the reality of the neighborhoods in which forumers live. On the East Side, we have people living in Asiatown, University Circle, Little Italy and Shaker Square, and so naturally those east side neighborhoods receive more attention than others. In neighborhoods where forumers aren't there to catch projects in action, the projects we're most likely to share are either a) the biggest, b) the ones receiving considerable news coverage or c) the ones that are situated down corridors people might be driving down (e.g. Global Cardiovascular more than Langston Hughes in Fairfax, St. Luke's more than the Buckeye commercial corridor in Buckeye).

Similarly, I don't feel like we do much in the way of coverage of Puritas, Stockyards, etc. on the West Side because I think we're largely underrepresented in residents / CDC reps from those communities.

Offline Rustbelter

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2011, 03:16:18 PM »
I think one thiing that may be overlooked is that a lot of the development on the East side nabes are public housing projects and not much private development as seen in the west side neighborhoods.  Having a private developer put money into a neighborhood tends to be more newsworthy then a new CMHA housing project. 

I would have to agree. Revitalization is not necessarily the same as gentrification, which is how market rate forces turn areas around. Gentrification suggests that there is more of an upscale presence (i.e. "the gentry") coming into a neighborhood, which usually follows artists and urban pioneers. Not quite the same as building a bunch of housing targeted as affordable. Immigrants could also transform a neighborhood, but that is not what is being contrasted in this case.


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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2011, 03:26:53 PM »
In all fairness, many of those things you've mentioned are covered on this site.  Many of the ones that aren't covered are the kind of social service facilities and low income housing that mushroom in poor communities, not up-and-coming neighborhoods.  Of course, this gets at the whole notion of what community redevelopment/revitalization/renewal/whatever is and means.  There's probably a benefit to the neighborhoods in having these things built their, but do they change the course of the neighborhood?

Offline cd-cleveland

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011, 03:46:47 PM »
This thread is devoted to news and discussion about the redevelopment of mostly African-American neighborhoods, primarily on the east-side. It seems that many developments, including those of a large-scale, have been overlooked on this board.

If there are already threads about a particular development project, please continue to post articles in those threads. If not, feel free to post them here rather than in the random developments thread.

THANK YOU for creating this thread.

$30+ million in construction projects will be taking place in Central and Kinsman in 2011:
http://www.bbcdevelopment.org/2011/01/bbcs-major-construction-projects-in-2011/

That doesn't include the redevelopment of the Garden Valley Estates (now called Heritage View Homes). 

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011, 04:03:50 PM »
I think one thiing that may be overlooked is that a lot of the development on the East side nabes are public housing projects and not much private development as seen in the west side neighborhoods.  Having a private developer put money into a neighborhood tends to be more newsworthy then a new CMHA housing project. 

I would have to agree. Revitalization is not necessarily the same as gentrification, which is how market rate forces turn areas around. Gentrification suggests that there is more of an upscale presence (i.e. "the gentry") coming into a neighborhood, which usually follows artists and urban pioneers. Not quite the same as building a bunch of housing targeted as affordable. Immigrants could also transform a neighborhood, but that is not what is being contrasted in this case.



As I said in the other thread, don't hold your breath for anything high end in Waterloo.  A stable, modest, middle class neighborhood is its peak potential.  Nothing wrong with that though.  It is somewhat of a good thing IMO.  At least the artists will be able to stick around and enjoy the nabe they just revitalized.

Now, there could be some potential for higher end closer to the Bratenahl border, but I doubt it.
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2011, 04:35:17 PM »
Oy, I see my one comment got a spinoff thread.


Tad narcissistic, are we? I am continually surprised at how little is known, including by some here at UO, about all the major development projects on the East Side, especially in the African-American neighborhoods. I blame it on the PD which does a horrible job at informing readers of these investments. And not all are CMHA projects. Many are privately financed, or at least mostly so.

That is why I created this thread -- because these investments should get more attention. Then some perceptions about the East Side of the city, excepting UC, might get eroded.

This thread is devoted to news and discussion about the redevelopment of mostly African-American neighborhoods, primarily on the east-side. It seems that many developments, including those of a large-scale, have been overlooked on this board.

If there are already threads about a particular development project, please continue to post articles in those threads. If not, feel free to post them here rather than in the random developments thread.

THANK YOU for creating this thread.

$30+ million in construction projects will be taking place in Central and Kinsman in 2011:
http://www.bbcdevelopment.org/2011/01/bbcs-major-construction-projects-in-2011/

That doesn't include the redevelopment of the Garden Valley Estates (now called Heritage View Homes). 

You're welcome. And I know you deal with this lack-of-awareness problem frequently at work. Many of the same people who coined the term "Forgotten Triangle" never paid much attention to it before or since!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 04:37:13 PM by KJP »
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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2011, 04:39:05 PM »
I think one thiing that may be overlooked is that a lot of the development on the East side nabes are public housing projects and not much private development as seen in the west side neighborhoods.  Having a private developer put money into a neighborhood tends to be more newsworthy then a new CMHA housing project. 

I would have to agree. Revitalization is not necessarily the same as gentrification, which is how market rate forces turn areas around. Gentrification suggests that there is more of an upscale presence (i.e. "the gentry") coming into a neighborhood, which usually follows artists and urban pioneers. Not quite the same as building a bunch of housing targeted as affordable. Immigrants could also transform a neighborhood, but that is not what is being contrasted in this case.



As I said in the other thread, don't hold your breath for anything high end in Waterloo.  A stable, modest, middle class neighborhood is its peak potential.  Nothing wrong with that though.  It is somewhat of a good thing IMO.  At least the artists will be able to stick around and enjoy the nabe they just revitalized.

Now, there could be some potential for higher end closer to the Bratenahl border, but I doubt it.

I think that's the case anywhere in Cleveland, though.  The people who b*tch about OC or Tremont being too expensive have a seriously skewed view of what rents/prices should be.  I have some friends looking at homes for rent there, and they've found several in the $750 range- whole houses.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 07:12:39 PM by X »

Online jam40jeff

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2011, 05:33:29 PM »
Tad narcissistic, are we?

Missing an emoticon, are we?

I only assumed that my post was part of the reason for this thread because it seemed as though there were some posts that may have been replies in the Waterloo thread and were moved to here (especially the one near the top where I am quoted).

Regardless, thanks for creating this thread.  As I said before, I think it's a great idea.  I just didn't want to be misquoted and attributed for starting what seemed to be becoming a racial argument at the time I posted.  I've started enough of those in the politics and suburbs threads.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 05:38:32 PM by jam40jeff »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2011, 11:53:29 PM »
Race need not be the issue here. The issue is that I don't think we share enough news nor do we discuss the east-side neighborhoods enough, except for UC, Midtown and Asiatown. And I'm as much to blame as anyone. And the news/discussion void isn't because there isn't anything happening. A lot is happening. The Waterloo thread revealed/reminded me of this need.

I have some pictures to share in the coming days and weeks.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 11:54:58 PM by KJP »
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Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2011, 08:25:07 AM »
CMHA

NEW CONSTRUCTION OF TOWNHOMES ON EAST 115TH STREET

The project consists of one 4-unit townhome building and one 2-family building. The 4-unit townhome will consist of four 3-bedroom units. The 2-family townhome will consist of two 2-bedroom units which will be fully compliant with ADA Accessibility Guidelines and Uniform Federal Accessibility Standards (UFAS). Site work will include a new parking area with a new access drive and a small green space. The UFAS units are slab on grade. The townhomes will have basements.

Where did you find that?  And do you know where on East 115th that is located?

It's on their website, under procurements.  I'm not sure where they will be.

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2011, 11:40:50 AM »
Race need not be the issue here.

The thread title would suggest otherwise.

Offline ClevelandOhio

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2011, 11:58:13 AM »
Race need not be the issue here.

The thread title would suggest otherwise.

True. But im still wondering, what are the projects that are happening in these areas, not including any form of public housing?

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2011, 12:15:11 PM »
Race need not be the issue here.

The thread title would suggest otherwise.

Fine. I'll change it.
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2011, 01:23:22 PM »

True. But im still wondering, what are the projects that are happening in these areas, not including any form of public housing?

Many residential projects in this area, even those primarily financed privately, will have public housing, mixed-income requirements, etc. Indeed an increasing number of real estate projects in Cleveland have mixed-income requirements when they accept any form of public subsidy (tax credits, direct grants, below market loans, etc).

And that works the other way too. Many CMHA developments have some market-rate housing included to promote a greater mix of incomes.

Regardless of whether the real estate development is led by a private developer or by CMHA, there have been numerous (and sometimes very large) developments on the otherwise forgotten areas of the east side. The Arbor Park/St. John's developments by themselves would be a small city if they were built out in the countryside someplace.

Then there's huge development in Glenville north of St. Clair, east of East 105th, which includes a retail complex and a mix of suburban and city townhouse-style residential area.
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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2011, 01:31:02 PM »
What's this development in Glenville?

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2011, 09:16:05 PM »
There's actually a number of developments all within about one square mile of each other in the vicinity of East 105th/St. Clair, which probably total about 150 housing units. These include North Park Place, which may be the largest single development in the area with 42 single-family homes, located just on the north side of the Glenville Town Center retail complex. Plus there's also the Glenville Homes phases I/II/III, as well as Parkside Townhomes, the neighboring Tanner Court and of course, CitiRama which, in my opinion, have the best design of any new homes in the city in a long time....
 

 
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Offline ClevelandOhio

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2011, 10:08:50 PM »
Those are some nice pictures. I think the most important factor for which the city of Cleveland needs to address is the housing stock. If The city would be able to clear out a large area and build new, I think it would be successful. Not everybody, actually only a few, want to renovate old houses. There is small population who do, mostly us on here, but being realistic, the average person does not. Thats why the city needs to contunue to get new housing if they ever want to see a large increase in poppulation again.

Offline cd-cleveland

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2011, 07:36:24 AM »
You're welcome. And I know you deal with this lack-of-awareness problem frequently at work. Many of the same people who coined the term "Forgotten Triangle" never paid much attention to it before or since!

The couple of folks who coined the term "Forgotten Triangle" still live there and are very active in the community. 





Looks like we have a forumer in this photo!

Offline 8ShadesofGray

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2011, 07:51:16 AM »
Not everybody, actually only a few, want to renovate old houses. There is small population who do, mostly us on here, but being realistic, the average person does not.

Unless you can do what Northeast Shores is doing (and I think several CDCs, actually)  ... rehab the homes before you sell them. Or coordinate the rehab of a home with the specific build-out priorities of a particular buyer in mind. While I agree not many want to walk through the rehab themselves, surveying I've seen seems to suggest that there is still a ton of interest in historically renovated homes. I think one compelling strategy is to aggressively rehab properties while also seeking out opportunities for in-fill or parket parks on existing empty parcels. Industrial cities like Cleveland have no end of available space (there's 3,000 vacant ACRES of land within Cleveland proper), so I think it would be a real shame to be leveling houses when we don't need to (i.e. when they aren't structurally too far gone to rehab).

For instance, the former mayor of East Cleveland had been exploring leveling the four blocks of houses closest to University Circle for speculative new construction (Circle East). These are houses in pretty good shape selling often for less than $20,000. If houses are sitting vacant at that price point, I question the wisdom of trying to finance a large-scale new construction project in this lending environment; I just can't imagine you would accomplish much more than bulldozing several intact streets.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2011, 01:47:29 PM »
great thread KJP!  :clap:
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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2011, 07:30:24 PM »
For instance, the former mayor of East Cleveland had been exploring leveling the four blocks of houses closest to University Circle for speculative new construction (Circle East). These are houses in pretty good shape selling often for less than $20,000. If houses are sitting vacant at that price point, I question the wisdom of trying to finance a large-scale new construction project in this lending environment; I just can't imagine you would accomplish much more than bulldozing several intact streets.

Interestng.  I think apartments might do very well on blocks near UC where houses aren't selling.  Buying an old house in East Cleveland, at any price point, is very different from renting a modern apartment there while interning at one of the nearby hospitals.  The lending envronment is what it is, but there are housing types for which we have immediate demand here.  I really believe that much of this city, around UC in particular, could be reinvigorated pretty quickly by adding marketable apartment stock.  And much of the land needed for that is currently occupied by distressed sf houses and doubles, if it's occupied at all.   
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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2011, 06:17:59 PM »
I don't think many people know of the magnitude of these developments.  They go from about E66 to the E30's and about 2-3 block wide.  Here are a few pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjames0408/5439404265/#in/set-72157625909416775/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjames0408/5440008094/#secret6064935569in/set-72157625909416775/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjames0408/5439401707/#in/set-72157625909416775/

Considering the properties in this area before, massive improvement!

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: East Side Neighborhood Development
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2011, 01:32:50 PM »
That has to be the shortest video in history! Thanks for the flickr pix though!
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