Author Topic: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project  (Read 14313 times)

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Offline TheCOV

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2015, 10:38:14 PM »
So, as many predicted, an entire neighborhood of historic structures...some quite nice, have been erased off the map forever......all for NOTHING.

Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2015, 10:45:13 PM »
For the moment most of these buildings are still standing, excluding the one on the right with the Dunlop Billboard and the frame building on the left that has the pipe sign. All will be gone soon and I'm assuming the roads rerouted as well. Not a big loss architecture wise, but so little of this area remains as it was from that era. You would think that as a westsider, Mayor Cranley would press to have at least one of the gateways to the west not be depressing. No disrespect to the residents by any means it is totally the fault of boring short sighted planning. Demolition and wacky flyover bridges on 6th st, A slowly disappearing lower Price Hill on 8th st and a reduced scope vision for Harrison/Queen City.

Offline chinkley

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2016, 11:06:43 AM »
Pretty damning article about spending at the MSD over the past 6 years.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/02/03/special-report-680m-memo/79691776/

I'm disappointed to not see any discussion regarding *why* we as a county can't afford the upgrades. I believe that an honest discussion about that would have to touch on the facts that Hamilton County has lost 15% of its population since 1970 (two years after MSD was created). And at the same time, the existing population is spreading further out around the county. Both facts mean that there are fewer people to pay for more infrastructure. It's like we're trying to repair a leaky bucket but at the same time are actively poking more holes while also running out of repair materials.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2016, 12:35:32 PM »
Why did it take 2 years of Cranley/Black for them to suddenly accuse Dahony, etc., of high crimes? 

Offline thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2016, 01:23:40 AM »
I say this as someone with absolutely zero understanding of how MSD operates... So in my understanding MSD was ordered by a court to make over $3 billion in upgrades/repairs to remedy the combined sewage/rainwater overflow situation. I think a reason we're not seeing good progress towards this goal is because of the sheer hugeness of that number. I mean that's like ordering someone making minimum wage to repay $1 million dollars or something. Psychologically they are not going to try too hard because it seems hopeless.

I think if the Feds are going to go around asking localities to pay out sums like that they should provide large chunks of funding. I mean these are legacy systems we are talking about here. Since the nation benefitted from a strong Cincinnati in the 1800s-1900s when the system was built why should we be put at a competitive disadvantage now vs. "newer" places that don't have to pay a huge bill like this to fix their sewer systems?

EDIT: and let me just add that I believe 100% that remedying this situation to keep wastewater out of the Ohio River is a worthwhile and necessary goal that the federal government should be pursuing.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 01:34:20 AM by thebillshark »

Offline jim uber

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2016, 06:55:29 AM »
The problems with MSD and the problems in Flint, MI are one and the same. Like @chinkley said, the problems are financial, and why we have decided we "can't afford" the fix. Lead contamination and untreated sewage overflows are the potholes of buried water infrastructure. They are the only visible signs of cracks in the system that will convince our leaders and ourselves to pay up.

We do not have a culture of maintenance, any more. We don't take care of our stuff. You have to believe that the root of this is too few people per infrastructure unit that requires support. The Ohio DOT recent policy announcement of "fix it first" was an amazing positive step in the right direction. It one fell swoop it seems to have acknowledged we don't have the resource base to keep building new infrastructure, and also said that you need to spend money on preventive maintenance and not just fix the worst thing first, cause that saves a lot in the long run. To put that into action for something like the City of Cincinnati, it means double the size of your painting crew, and attack the rust. These are things that my Dad, who could barely use a hammer, taught me, as I'm sure many Dads have done.

There are tons of other related problems, like sewage and drainage billing that doesn't make sense. If the costs of the fix hinge upon building a system big enough to handle the largest storm flows, why doesn't my bill charge me rationally for the amount of surface runoff that my development generates and deposits into the combined sewer? I could install a buried tank with holes in the bottom that would return the first 1000+ gallons of rainwater to the earth from each rainfall event, but 1) it'd probably be illegal, and 2) I'd get no rate reduction from doing so.

Still, my water bill is just now approaching my cable bill, and it delivers drinking water and takes my sh*t way, every time I ask. But time warner is not the government, so something must be very very wrong.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2017, 12:41:42 PM »
The remaining building between Queen City and Westwood avenues in South Fairmont will soon be demolished for the Lick Run project. This includes several historic buildings in addition to a former Rally's and former UDF.









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Offline Yves Behar

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2017, 10:47:42 PM »
I hope that it's worth it in the end.

Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2017, 09:02:16 AM »
Did you take these last week Travis? I think i drove past you as you walked up Queen City towards Grand Ave. Haha! I was wondering if I'd see pics here.

Offline seicer

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2017, 10:05:56 AM »
I hope that it's worth it in the end.

Same. I hope that the money is still there by the time the project starts. These buildings shouldn't have been built in the first place but boy, some nice ones are being taken down.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2017, 11:41:38 AM »
Did you take these last week Travis? I think i drove past you as you walked up Queen City towards Grand Ave. Haha! I was wondering if I'd see pics here.

Yeah, I was walking around the area on Sunday taking photos. We even went inside a few of the buildings, and they were in good condition... someone could be living there if they weren't being torn down.
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Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2017, 12:51:31 PM »
I thought so I should have stopped and introduced myself, but i know when im out taking pics of empty places with my cameras the last thing i want is a random guy out of no where surprising me. The brick buildings with the quoins was really well maintained up until this project just like several others like you said. Im not sure if you saw it on another thread, but I found the entry to the funeral home and lives on at 12th and clay in the remodeled facade of the new mens facility. There used to be a part that said CHAPEL above that and i just recently saw it at 3G Stonecraft in Northside which in a random coincidence is owned by my neighbor. I keep meaning to ask if it is for sale. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1087032,-84.5120577,3a,51.3y,320.28h,91.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPxxbdpL6QxIdz8wu40XKLg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1253814,-84.5587233,3a,40.3y,343.05h,92.19t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNOQqfNq20aAEkUUW4lB8hg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DNOQqfNq20aAEkUUW4lB8hg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D4.868884%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2017, 04:23:58 PM »
The area around Harrison and Westwood was demolished starting last week, and yesterday they started demolishing the first of the properties they half hardheartedly tried to "preserve" to get some goodwill on their website. Admittedly it was a hard sell as whoever bought them would have to move them. This former Convent is the first of those to go.

Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2017, 08:27:17 AM »
It is amazing how many people and how much equipment are on site for this now. Today on the way past i saw more dump truck in one place than I ever have before, and I drive I-75 from the Viaduct to Evendale every day. There were probably 20 or more empty ones lined up where the new Harrison crossing will be and earth movers everywhere today.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2017, 10:16:17 AM »
Yeah, only 2-3 buildings left and 20+ pieces of heavy equipment. 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 10:16:32 AM by jmecklenborg »

Offline IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2017, 10:58:16 AM »
I sincerely hope this improves the quality of life for residents over there.  I don't know a whole lot about that area, I have driven past there a couple times, but it just seems like a urban highway rolling through, the city needs to do a lot of work to make the quality of life better for those residents.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2017, 11:58:35 AM »
Unfortunately I think much of the original plan was scrapped when Cranley got into office and started meddling. The original plan was to make both of the streets two way, with the bulk of the traffic routed onto Westwood Ave., which would allow Queen City Ave. to become more pedestrian friendly with slower travel speeds and very little thru traffic. However I think this idea was scrapped and the current road configuration will be kept. So this will be a nice park, unfortunately located in between the eastbound and westbound lanes of a highway.
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Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2017, 04:00:44 PM »
Is this the final plan?  http://www.projectgroundwork.org/downloads/lickrun/Lick_Run_Greenway_poster_web.pdf 

It's basically Calhoun/McMillan except there's a creek on one side.  There appears to be redevelopment potential on the south side of Queen City between Grand and Quebec, but by just showing it as an unlabeled green lawn it really screams "I was designed by a landscape and traffic engineering firm."  On a drawing like this I want to at least see the developable parcels labeled, and preferably show future buildings to illustrate that they actually have some idea of what they want to see go in here.  Unfortunately with these 3-laner one-way streets that will at best have street parking only on one side and not during rush hour, if allowed at all, I fear any new building that might happen will be single-story low-value crud with parking on one or both sides.  At least they managed to detangle the whole State/Beekman abomination, but these streets are going to be asphalt wastelands like ODOT has turned MLK into at both I-71 and I-75.

Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2017, 04:41:21 PM »
^^ Pretty sure that is it. At one point the family Dollar wasnt on there but looks like it is sadly back. If you haven't seen it it looks like a pole barn and the back and dumpsters will welcome you to the west side from the viaduct. Lovely.  They at least saved the funeral home garage as a facility building and one home that didnt sell out will survive .Also staying is the strip mall with the site & sound stereo place that has been there for like 40years. The previous plan where Queen city was a local two way saved more buildings on the queen city side but the Cranley meddling lead the the fancy median look of it and it became more scattered.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2017, 05:34:59 PM »
Some aerials I took at the end of June with demolition in progress:









« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 05:35:33 PM by taestell »
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Offline urbanpioneer

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2017, 06:06:00 PM »
Gosh, these are terrific photos.  Thank you!

Roxanne Qualls really put a lot of time and thought into the initial plans.  It's sad that they won't be realized.

Offline TheCOV

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2017, 09:13:44 PM »
Pisses me off. All of this is dead so freaking Greene township can exist.

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2017, 11:36:59 PM »
^ Yup
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 11:38:29 PM by jjakucyk »

Offline seicer

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2017, 08:56:33 AM »
The concept of burying streams and channeling them into culverts is thankfully long past in most areas. The idea of building over those buried culverts wasn't wise but it probably made sense at the time when land was more limited. At the least, we are reversing some of this damage to the environment and hydrology - and greatly reducing one of the biggest combined sewer overflow source points, which will help reduce contaminants in the Ohio River.

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Metropolitan Sewer District: Lick Run Project
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2017, 10:17:24 AM »
Well, if you treat every brook/creek/stream as sacrosanct then you can't ever build a city.  You'd clip the grid of streets so often you'd never be able to get anything more than suburban density.  Manhattan has thousands of creeks in pipes, and if they were all daylighted the only street that would remain continuous is Broadway (which runs on a ridge).  If you do that, then you're making the flooding/pollution problems worse by spreading the population out over a larger area that requires more paved streets and parking lots and single-story buildings while still severely harming the hydrology and overall ecology over all that supposedly lesser-impact development.

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