Author Topic: Cleveland: Ohio City: Development and News  (Read 978216 times)

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Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #70 on: August 03, 2005, 06:30:35 PM »
These low-income housing advocates make me mad. I'm sick of them proposing more warehouses for poor people and arguing against private investment in the neighborhood. Un-freaking-believable.

Give them job training and a rent voucher to help them get out of poverty, and bring more market-rate homes to the neighborhood so that there's more wealth. More wealth means more stores and businesses. More stores and businesses means more jobs. More jobs means fewer people having to depend on public assistance and dispersing those concentrations of poverty.

Three cheers to Joe Mazzola for stating what apparently isn't so obvious to these short-sighted people.

KJP

Most of those a$$holes don't live in central Cleveland anyway (along with the homeless rights advocates, who I think need a fucking punch in the mouth).  I say if they want to make more segregated low income housing projects, and want people to be allowed to panhandle freestyle, then they should be happy to have it in their own neighborhoods.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2005, 04:44:00 PM »
So, has anyone heard of the alternative sites?  Why does the PD run a story saying that alternate sites will be announced, and then never announce those sites? 

Offline the pope

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2005, 06:46:36 PM »
^honestly what did you expect out of the PD?

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #73 on: August 13, 2005, 03:17:50 PM »
I can't think of a site in OC for a development of this scale...unless there's some industrial property along Detroit or something south of Lorain that they're talking about.  All the recent development has been rehabs or one side of a block...a lot of scattered stuff, but nothing monumental.  This, I'm assuming, is going to be the size of a Battery Park or thereabouts. 

Also, what will the future of the Riverview site be?  There's so much land to be developed both around the towers and behind the market, all the way from Lorain to Detroit.  But with the status of the hillside, what will it take to develop it?  What if we just built closer to West 25th and made the easternmost portion a winding park???  Sounds good to me!

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #74 on: August 13, 2005, 03:51:56 PM »

There really is a lot of parking lot space behind the market. I wish that the parking could be consolidated in a garage fronting Lorain and housing placed on the existing lots. It would be nice to create a pedestrian space along the produce alley from W. 25th leading into a new housing development. This would give the market square area even greater life.

The Ohio City newsletter said that the alternatives would be discussed at a meeting on wednesday night. I haven't heard anything in the PD. I wish I could have gone to the meeting, but I was not able to go.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2005, 09:23:01 PM by wimwar »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #75 on: August 23, 2005, 08:50:39 PM »
West Side Housing Plan To Be Reviewed     
08-23-2005 8:25 AM

(Cleveland, OH) -- Planners of a public housing complex on Cleveland's west side are on a tight deadline. They want community response this week before submitting final plans to the federal government at the end of September. There are four sites under consideration in the Ohio City neighborhood. The original site near Riverside Towers was scrapped because of unstable ground. The public meetings are tomorrow and Thursday nights at Lutheran Hospital.


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Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2005, 03:30:38 PM »
I saw this yesterday.  I hope this project succeeds.  The potential for greater high-density housing is very important for a flourishing area like Ohio City which, believe it or not, still has a ways to go before become that bustling, true 24-hour neighborhood we seek.  I, like you, hope that since development behind Riverview Towers was squelched b/c of the unstable hillside, building can be in tighter to the WS Market/Market Sq location.  The previous Hope VI development appeared a tad sprawling and more weighted toward the Detroit end where, of course, there's far less commercial activity and is cut off by Lutheran Hosp.

I hope people are not a little lackluster b/c of the public housing aspect, cause the far greater percentage of housing are market rate units.  I've really got my fingers crossed than this project can go forward and that all the neighborhood factional yelpers can cool it and work together.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #77 on: August 25, 2005, 09:46:05 AM »
I went to the meeting last night. It was pure chaos.  It was sad.  Many people were openly belligerent about the project--especially the West Side Market merchants. People fear density.  I hope that some people could go tonight and voice opinions in favor of higher density.   Or, at least send emails to OCNW ( info@ocnw.org ) saying that you support this project. I'll explain my thoughts more thoroughly at a later time.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #78 on: August 25, 2005, 11:30:13 AM »
I'll be attending tonight and will do my best not to sit on my hands...  more later!

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #79 on: August 26, 2005, 09:08:30 AM »
OK, last nights meeting---round two in this stage of public meetings about the project---was MUCH better, for what I understand. I attended this meeting and there was never any feeling of things being out of control, though there were comments made with passion and unease and maybe a little bit of anger. I'm pretty sure that OCNW, CMHA and Telesis went back to the office and said, "We've got to take control of the next meeting." They brought in a facilitator who's lived in the neighborhood for nearly 30 years and the whole thing went a lot more smoothly. That's not to say that people didn't get to speak their minds. The difference, in my understanding, is that they were able to lay out more of the "givens" and "not givens" at the beginning, so that people would understand that the plans before them were not already set in stone, but merely the first version of a potential plan.

That being said, the presentation went well (I'll post more on this when I'm at home) and the questions/comments/response were, for the most part, intelligent and well-answered (in my opinion). The major concerns at this meeting were not about density, but about the urgency of the planning for this version and the rapidly-approaching deadline. That deadline is the end of September and $8.5 million in federal dollars are attached to that date. The question then becomes: do we rush into this proposal for the sake of keeping that funding or do we run a much greater risk of making a much more costly mistake if we don't take our time and get it right???

That's the most important question that I took out of this meeting. Everyone's being rushed here...the developer, the CDC, the public...is it possible to get an extension? will the money definitely get pulled if we don't meet the deadline? will a plan thrown together in this short amount of time even get approval from HUD??? It's drastically different from the initial plan that CMHA received funding for in 1996, so there's still the possibility that HUD will say, "we understand that the parameters changed, but this isn't nearly what you proposed 9 years ago, so we are pulling the funding." That's my understanding.

I'll post images, "givens" and "not givens" and other details later.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2005, 09:11:13 AM by Mister Good Day »

Offline Oldmanladyluck

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #80 on: August 26, 2005, 09:39:03 AM »
I've been wondering this for a while... but can anybody tell me why the hell it took them so long to get moving in the first place?  I remember seeing plans for this site maybe five years ago.
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Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #81 on: August 26, 2005, 06:06:14 PM »
They brought in a facilitator who's lived in the neighborhood for nearly 30 years and the whole thing went a lot more smoothly.

That facilitator was there the first night too. Didn't make a lick of difference!

Do we rush into this proposal for the sake of keeping that funding or do we run a much greater risk of making a much more costly mistake if we don't take our time and get it right???

I say submit the proposal; we can tweak it later. It calls for developing primarily vacant space and parking lots -- always a good idea IMO. Who knows when we'll get another chance at $8.5 million?

My current concerns would be in two areas: One, design -- but those details can be worked out later. I believe City Architecture is slated to be the designer of this stuff, and I trust them to turn out something decent. Two, I'm not sure Ohio City can sustain 300+ new units of market-rate housing. I live in the OC, and see lots of "for rent" signs in even the most desirable areas. Perhaps the number of market-rate units could be reduced before the project is actually built.

Oh, by the way, the plans and community feedback have been posted on a special page on the OCNW site: http://www.ocnw.org/index.cgi?id=130&p=5151
The person to send feedback to is Sheri Fointno, sfointno@ohiocity.org

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2005, 11:22:41 AM »
good lookin out, blinker.  they're taking comments up until September 1 or 2. 

I agree that there is concern over whether 300+ new market rate units can be absorbed in OC.  This was voiced at the Thursday night session and the response was that this will not all be built at once.  It can be done in phases and a schedule will be layed out after more studies of market demand, etc.

This is one of the things that has surprised me so much about the nearby Stonebridge development.  As unique and exciting as it is, it's pretty isolated in relation to existing neighborhoods, yet they've built several hundred units there over the past 4 years.  I don't know what their vacancy rates are, but I would say that if they can rent/sell all those units over on the Viaduct in that short period of time, then they should certainly be able to rent/sell the same amount located behind the West Side Market and in such close proximity to the Red Line, Dave's and all the other OC amenities. 

Another of the preferred elements of the original proposal, in my opinion, was that their units were a much easier sell.  It seems that townhouses are the way to go right now and so many of those units were townhouses on streets overlooking Downtown and the river.  The plan did much more to create a contiguous urban fabric, whereas the primary element of the current plan (the site behind the WSM) will just plop down a few towers and a garage without doing much for the street level.  This, of course, all remains to be seen in the design phase...

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #83 on: August 27, 2005, 11:49:38 AM »
The original plan, scrapped due to unstable terrain:







The new plan, which is still highly conceptual, features:
  48 units at Detroit Avenue & West 28th Street (8 affordable)
  74 units at Church Avenue & West 28th Street (12 affordable)
  268 units at Bridge Avenue & West 24th Street (49 affordable)
  12 units at West 41st & Lorain Avenue (all affordable)

I have more details on these sites and they are not necessarily the only ones being considered.  The following are two images from the meeting.

This map shows the locations of the four sites proposed above (I've highlighted them for you!):


This is a perspective view of what the building heights and density would look like:



Offline M Bajak 84

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #84 on: September 11, 2005, 12:23:51 PM »
CMHA officials will ask to extend deadline on delayed Riverview project
Sunday, September 11, 2005

Angela D. Chatman
Plain Dealer Reporter

Local housing officials will ask for an extension on the long-delayed Riverview HOPE VI project even as they prepare to meet a Sept. 30 deadline for revised plans.

The request means asking the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to agree to revised "locked" checkpoints for the project, said Scott Pollock, director of real estate and development for the Cuyahoga Metropolitan Housing Authority.

For instance, CMHA would ask for a deadline of June 30, 2006, for finishing project financing. The original deadline was June 30, 2003...

more at:  http://www.cleveland.com

« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 02:11:05 PM by McCleveland »

Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #85 on: September 12, 2005, 03:13:22 PM »
It ticks me off that the Hicks lot was ruled out just because some West Side Market tenants were worried about losing overflow parking. A real example of how the WS market (especially longtime tenants) views itself as separate from the neighborhood -- since maintaining parking is about continuing to accommodate commuters, while new construction would be about building the neighborhood consumer base.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2005, 04:45:20 PM »
I won't be able to go to this tomorrow night...who's gonna step up???


CMHA plans will be aired

Thursday, September 15, 2005
By DAVID PLATA
West Side Sun News

Councilman Joe Cimperman said he will object to plans by Cleveland Metropolitan Housing Authority _ still to be made public _ to build up to 350 mixed-income housing units in the area of Columbus Road.

But George Phillips, CMHA director, said the plan has not been finalized, and would call for fewer units than that _ about 100-150.

That's one of the sites we're looking at, Phillips said. We're talking with RTA. There's nothing final yet, nothing definite.

Neither Cimperman nor Phillips could say how many acres are at the site, on either side of Regional Transit Authority tracks. Phillips said the plan calls for both mid-rise and high-rise buildings.

The plans are to be aired at a public meeting at 6:30 p.m. Tuesday at the Castele Learning Center at Lutheran Hospital.

What I understand is it's going to call for creation of one big block of housing, said Cimperman, D-13. A lot of people are concerned about that. You don't want to create something that is exactly why you went through the whole HOPE VI process in the first place. The whole idea is to de-densify, to have people living in places that are more _ not single-unit, but certainly less than this massive wall of housing.

Residents in the area of West 20th Street and Abbey Road are very, very concerned about the plan, Cimperman said.

CMHA faces a Sept. 30 deadline to tell the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development how it will spend some $8.5 million remaining in a HOPE VI grant. The money was awarded in 1996 to build some 420 units on the bluff behind the authority's Riverview Towers on West 25th Street.

However, geotechnical studies later showed the land is so unstable that it can't be built upon, and CMHA has been scrambling to find alternate sites.

Phillips also said CMHA is asking the federal government for an extension of so-called checkpoint dates in the timeline process, totaling about a year, to find suitable sites and finalize the plan.

Cimperman said he also wants a time extension.

I don't think we should settle for a plan that comes in second place when, with a little more time, we could get what we want, he said.

Councilman Nelson Cintrn Jr., D-14, has said he objects to plans to build three high-rises, totaling 268 units, along with a two- to three-story parking deck, on the so-called Hicks Lot next to the West Side Market.

Both Cintrn and Phillips have said they are in discussions with RTA to build a high-rise atop RTA's West 25th Street-Ohio City station. From 120-160 units could be built there, Phillips has said.

Joe Mazzola, director of Ohio City Near West Development Corp., noted the Hicks Lot plan has essentially been rejected, and called the plans for Columbus Road Plan C.

I'll know more about it when CMHA meets with our board, he said.

CMHA is developing the plans with Telesis Corp. of Washington, D.C.

In addition to the Hicks Lot, according to preliminary plans, 74 units would be built at West 28th Street and Church Avenue; 48 would be built at West 28th and Detroit Avenue; and 12 would be built at West 41st Street and Lorain Avenue, on land owned by Ohio City Near West Development Corp.

[end]

it sounds like there's plenty of dissent among the council members that serve this area, let alone the residents and merchants...It's also interesting to hear that OCNW has already declared the Hicks proposal dead...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2005, 05:37:43 PM by Mister Good Day »

Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #87 on: September 22, 2005, 12:27:55 PM »
Weird... I thought they were going to announce new construction over the RTA tracks. Anyway, looks like enough people are up in arms about the Duck Island proposal to through another cog in the wheel of this development. Meantime, only 8 days left til the deadline! Is the whole thing going to die? That would be a real shame...
I don't get these reactions we're getting from neighborhood residents. God forbid we have density in a city neighborhood...  :roll:

Housing project too dense, Duck Island residents say
Thursday, September 22, 2005
Angela D. Chatman
Plain Dealer Reporter
Residents of a near West Side neighborhood criticized a mixed-income housing project planned for that area for its high density Tuesday night.

Residents of what is known as Duck Island, southeast of the West Side Market, said the Cuyahoga Metropolitan Housing Authority's proposal to build 242 housing units along Columbus Road would alter the nature of their neighborhood.

CMHA and its co-developer, the Telesis Corp., identified the property owned by the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority as the fourth, and largest, site for housing in its long-delayed Riverview HOPE VI project. The CMHA parcel would replace the city-owned Hicks parking lot as the site for the bulk of the housing.

The housing authority proposes to build 384 units, including 81 public-housing units, on four sites... 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1127381464308751.xml&coll=2
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 02:13:43 PM by McCleveland »

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #88 on: September 22, 2005, 08:26:03 PM »
Let's be honest, it's not the density, it's the CMHA/low income portion that's scaring people.  I wish folks could just be honest.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #89 on: September 22, 2005, 10:07:29 PM »
Considering the economic status of Duck Island, I would guess that its more a matter of race than income.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #90 on: September 23, 2005, 12:32:16 PM »
seriously, how many people live in "duck island" and how does this weigh in with the rest of the community?  I had the same question regarding the WSM merchants who were so vocal in opposing the Hicks Lot.  What it comes down to is the final recommendation of OCNW.  If they determine that the 4 or 5 (more or less) Duck Island residents at the meeting are either not representative of the whole of Duck Island and not representative of the whole of Ohio City, then they might just have to say "tough luck, this is for the good of the entire community."  This isn't eminent domain...this isn't a waste facility or a jail...it's HOUSING and it'll add "eyes on the street" and feet on the sidewalk and cash in the registers of local merchants.  Where's the harm in all that???

Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #91 on: September 23, 2005, 03:28:31 PM »
That's why those of us living in OC or near west should e-mail OCNW with messages of support -- so they know not everyone is opposed to "density." (read: poor people)
sfointno@ohiocity.org

Offline buildingcincinnati

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #92 on: October 01, 2005, 08:48:18 PM »
From the 9/29/05 PD:


CMHA plan for Ohio City development wins support
Thursday, September 29, 2005
Angela D. Chatman
Plain Dealer Reporter


The Ohio City Near West Development Corp. board of trustees voted Wednesday evening to support a revised mixed-income development proposed by public housing officials.

The board said the Cuyahoga Metropolitan Housing Authority's project is consistent with the community development corporation's strategic plan...

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1127986597318330.xml&coll=2
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 02:14:53 PM by McCleveland »
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Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #93 on: October 02, 2005, 08:52:36 PM »
Ok, I agree that the Muni Lot needs to be home to hundreds of units of housing.  If the "tailgating" excuse holds ANY sway in City Hall, then I give up and admit that I will never understand this town....

However, this project was intended for the near west side and I feel like that's where it should end up!  I think the market will eventually (hopefully sooner than later) take care of sites like the Muni Lot and the old Riverview site, but I understand that at this point in time, subsidy might be necessary. 

On the other hand, I love the idea of extending the Avenue District north to the lake, while at the same time, I can only shake my head at the ineptitude of our efforts in the late 90s in losing the "Davenport Bluffs" to two suburban-style office buildings (WKYC & FBI) that will, for many years to come, serve as another barricade to northward development...

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #94 on: October 02, 2005, 09:57:48 PM »
At this stage in the game, it is starting to seem like people are just throwing out locations in desperation.  I would not be surprised if next week we hear about a site on stilts in Lake Erie.  I would hope that this project stays in Ohio City.  Something like this could change OC's status from Up and Coming to Established. 

I agree with MGD about the 'tailgating reference.  I am glad that we are keeping in mind the highest and best use.  I mean, 8 dates a year for tailgating should definetely take priority over housing. 

While I like the idea of connectivity, I would guess that it would be pretty expensive to raise the condo tower over the tracks.  If it is cost efffective, then by all means go for it.

Offline smackem81

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #95 on: October 02, 2005, 10:14:41 PM »
Conceptually I like the idea of a high rise over the tracks, so long as its cost feasable. Plop it down right in front of the FBI and the channel 3 news building. It would connect by eminint domaining some land to make e 13 extend down to the muni lot, and the waterfront line last stop.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #96 on: October 02, 2005, 10:19:59 PM »
hmmm...now which tracks are we talking about here???  I doubt they'll be bridging the downtown tracks with this project.  that seems like a project for much further down the line...but perhaps the Red Line tracks in Ohio City?

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #97 on: October 05, 2005, 01:02:48 PM »
They're talking about the parallel sets of tracks belonging to Norfolk Southern Corp. and CSX Inc. (both used by Amtrak), as well as tracks for the RTA Waterfront Line, east of East 9th Street and south of the Shoreway (Route 2).

Constructing buildings over busy freight railroad tracks is not advisable. Overhead structures (especially residential) will be adversely affected by the vibrations, exhaust and dust from heavy freight trains. Hazardous materials are also a factor, but their shipments could affect every neighborhood or community along virtually every railroad.

Walkways are fine. Buildings? Not a good idea.

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Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #98 on: October 31, 2005, 11:18:17 PM »
Hmmm...never realized that they posted these...there are more at http://www.ocnw.org/index.cgi?id=130&p=5151


Offline smackem81

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #99 on: October 31, 2005, 11:52:45 PM »
This development is what duck island people are bitching about? It blocks raildroad noise ++, its not as tall as the one in ohio city and better able to blend in. On another note nobody lives in duck island really, the whines of a couple of households on the street should be no concern. If anything it acutally IMPROVES duck island, by actually putting residents there. Most of duck island is vacant land

Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #100 on: November 08, 2005, 10:15:10 AM »
I finally got around to e-mailing OCNW today about the status of the low-rise buildings north of Riverview Tower on W. 25th. I'm sure anyone who lives in the area knows what I'm talking about, but for those who don't -- this is among the most frustrating real estate situations in the City of Cleveland. What you have are a series of incredibly ugly, low-rise public housing buildings set well back from W. 25th Street from Riverview Tower to the Detroit-Superior Bridge.
Now, if there's any place in the city that could attract a truly mixed-income population of the kind HOPE VI envisions, it's on this section of W. 25th. The views of downtown are spectacular and it's within walking distance of the Rapid, shops on W. 25th and entertainment in the Flats and Warehouse District. Yet while initial plans showed rebuilding on this site, it has been mysteriously absent from recent discussions of the project. Why? Because, according to the response I got today, that land was part of what was deemed "unstable" in the geo-technical study that also ruled out building on the riverbank nearby! So despite the fact that that land already supports buildings, it's no longer being considered for residential redevelopment! Truly frustrating.
Still, all is not lost. Apparently OCNW is in talks to do some development on the west side of W. 25th -- also underutlized, though some commercial buildings remain -- and there are ideas for creating green space to replace the low-rise buildings, which would be a vast improvement.

Here's more from OCNW:

"The geo-technical data showed that all the buildings north of Riverview Tower are on unstable ground. Therefore, its highly unlikely well ever see development from Riverview north to the bridge. Pretty sad. However, there might be opportunities for vastly improved green space and view sheds. The OCNW Board of Trustees made tearing down the low-rise buildings a specific request in the resolution of support we passed last month. Much of it was for safety reasons, but the improvements to the neighborhood would be large.

The west side (of W. 25th) is still under discussion. CMHA is in talks with several property owners on that side of 25th."

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #101 on: November 08, 2005, 10:32:35 AM »
Good sleuthing, B12!

I've been to a couple meetings in the buildings on the east side of 25th.  Transitional Housing Inc. has their offices over there and I believe an affiliate of theirs owns the land and buildings.  They could definitely do with a rehab, but I don't know if they're thinking about moving.

There's still a ton of land directly adjacent to Riverview that should be put to some productive use...ballfields, viewing plaza, whatever...and a decent amount of land behind them as well along Bridge, closer to the river.  Every time I go back there, I think of the tremendous potential of those city-owned parking lots south of Bridge, behind the market, where one component of the recent HOPE VI proposals was shot down by a VERY VOCAL MINORITY.  But do those fall into the "danger zone?"

I agree that the potential along the west side of 25th might be more promising right now, considering the conditions across the street and I hope they move on it!
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 10:33:33 AM by Mister Good Day »

Offline smackem81

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #102 on: November 08, 2005, 11:47:42 AM »
I wonder what they deem as unstable? Is it under no circumstances can this land be built on? or is it We can build some things under some limited conditions on this land? There used to be buildings there back when it was irishtown. Iristown bend condos ~seem~ to have simmilar soil conditions. The area near there is full of freshwater springs, so they had to put huge concrete footers there just to keep a not so big building stable. I'd say CMHA should sell the land between riverbed and franklin to private developers, and limit the constuction scale to units simmilar in scale to irshtown bend condos and keep them spaced out enough too keep it woodsy and hopefuly prevent instability too. Just because the public finds impossiblites to build there, dosent mean greedy developers wont find a way

Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #103 on: November 08, 2005, 11:58:03 AM »
From what I remember of the geotechnical study, the land could be stabilized but the cost would be prohibitive (especially for a public entity). What you're saying about the land being sold to a private developer makes sense, but under current market conditions in the city demand probably wouldn't be sufficient to justify the expenditure.
I wouldn't at all mind a park on the north end of W. 25th -- that would give everyone unobstructed views of downtown, and provide green space in an area where it's currently somewhat lacking.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 11:58:51 AM by blinker12 »

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #104 on: November 08, 2005, 12:18:48 PM »
a park would be great and if that's all we can do for the next 30 years due to lack of funds to stabilize the hillside, then by all means, we should do it.  but right now, it's a big piece of green space with a fence around it.

from what i hear, there are several more rounds of studies that need to be done before cost estimates can be made for future development.  cost prohibitive is definitely the term for it, but it's also true that a private developer could find the cost acceptable with a certain type of development on site.  I have a feeling that this would include them asking for a big investment by the public sector to help offset the cost of site preparation...much like brownfield cleanup...

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