Author Topic: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News  (Read 3304976 times)

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Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29575 on: February 09, 2017, 12:10:56 PM »
I've been hearing anecdotally, and witnessing with my own eyes, that business is up at Findlay Market since the streetcar opened. Now, WCPO is reporting that some businesses are up 30%.

This is the impact of the streetcar that is hard to quantify and the people who hate the streetcar will never believe it. But ridership numbers alone do not tell the full story. The way that the streetcar "pays for itself" isn't through fares. It's through more visitors to the city spending money along the route, and more people choosing to live near the route, spending less money on gas and more at local businesses.
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Offline jggrimes

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29576 on: February 09, 2017, 12:52:32 PM »
^ I work downtown and see it as a huge plus.  I have taken the streetcar several times to Findlay Market for either shopping or lunch, and make the round trip from 4th St. in less than an hour.
Being near the top of the loop makes it easy to pick up a streetcar back on either side of the market.  It's great to be able to handle some of these errands during the day instead of wasting time and fighting traffic after work.

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29577 on: February 09, 2017, 01:20:48 PM »
The way that the streetcar "pays for itself" isn't through fares. It's through more visitors to the city spending money along the route, and more people choosing to live near the route, spending less money on gas and more at local businesses.

It's a misunderstanding a lot of people have about any government service.  Many think government's job is to do things that aren't profitable, but if that's the case then it means the government eventually goes bankrupt.  Things like the streetcar, roads, water/sewer systems, education, healthcare, etc., are services which have a positive but indirect return on investment.  Water and sewer systems, for instance, help to ensure that people don't get sick and/or die.  People who aren't sick or dead can keep working and pay more taxes to fund those systems.  Education is the best example, because a smarter populace gets better jobs, makes more money, and supports more other jobs that all lead to a net increase in taxes to pay for the school system.  Tracking or accounting for all that is hard, and it's certainly apparent that we're spending way more than we're getting back on road/highway expansions and military conquests, but it's only becoming clear because they're so far out of whack.  Nevertheless, the point is that such government services are not supposed to pay back directly, but they are supposed to pay back indirectly. 

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29578 on: February 09, 2017, 02:25:37 PM »
^ Yeah, that's the problem with the "common sense" crowd who think the government should "run like a business" and anything that doesn't make a profit should be shut down.
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Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29579 on: February 09, 2017, 02:31:51 PM »
^Those people think they know a lot about business but actually know very little.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29580 on: February 09, 2017, 02:51:50 PM »
^Those people think they know a lot about business but actually know very little.

They think everything is a lemonade stand.  But lemonade stands don't stay in business for very long. 

Offline Brutus_buckeye

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29581 on: February 09, 2017, 04:35:35 PM »
^ I think that is a pretty simple minded statement about looking at government from a business perspective. Depending on your perspective, you can see the benefits or lack there of from the Streetcar. If I were a property owner in OTR or area within a 2 block walk from the Streetcar, it is a huge benefit to my business, even without the ridership. However, if I look at it from someone in Bridgetown who works in BLue Ash, it does not do anything for me personally, and I don't want to spend tax dollars on it. From a business perspective, neither party is right or wrong, it is just perspective.  With something like the Streetcar, I don't think that answer will be determined for a period of years or decades. It is not as easy of an answer as say Council's mistake to give money to Mohaganey's. However, I think mistakes like that continually add ammunition to Streetcar foes because it provides tangible proof that Council is not a responsible steward of their tax money. I think a lot of this goes back to many of the previous mistakes made by Council with clearly bone headed ideas.


Offline GCrites80s

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Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29584 on: February 09, 2017, 05:37:44 PM »
^ I think that is a pretty simple minded statement about looking at government from a business perspective. Depending on your perspective, you can see the benefits or lack there of from the Streetcar. If I were a property owner in OTR or area within a 2 block walk from the Streetcar, it is a huge benefit to my business, even without the ridership. However, if I look at it from someone in Bridgetown who works in BLue Ash, it does not do anything for me personally, and I don't want to spend tax dollars on it. From a business perspective, neither party is right or wrong, it is just perspective.  With something like the Streetcar, I don't think that answer will be determined for a period of years or decades. It is not as easy of an answer as say Council's mistake to give money to Mohaganey's. However, I think mistakes like that continually add ammunition to Streetcar foes because it provides tangible proof that Council is not a responsible steward of their tax money. I think a lot of this goes back to many of the previous mistakes made by Council with clearly bone headed ideas.


The private sector makes all sorts of dumb moves such as .com busts and sinking tons of money into companies with terrible fundamentals. They make me sarcastic. A friend of mine recently hooked up his TV antenna after 6 months of streaming everything. His takeaway after a week? "I am so much more sarcastic now. I can't help it with all these commercials for things nobody should ever buy." Besides car commercials (a very large portion of ads today) pretty much everything from pills to reverse mortgages is a bad idea. It's not like when we were kids where all the ads were for mops, soap and breakfast cereal.


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Offline Brutus_buckeye

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29585 on: February 09, 2017, 09:14:58 PM »
^But the private sector is allowed to take those chances. It is their money to blow. Elected officials have a fiduciary duty, it is not their job to take such risks.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29586 on: February 09, 2017, 09:54:17 PM »
The amount of money the city lost on Mohagany's is less than what Cranley blew on his streetcar crancellation & audit in December 2013.  He was pretending to be a fiduciary when really he was being an obstructionist.  And that sum was a fraction of the $50 million Cranley blew back in 2003 with the Anthem Demutualization.  $50 million from the pension fund found its way into donor's pockets.  He laid the groundwork for his 2013 campaign not just with public funds but with pension funds -- and ran on a platform to save the pension fund he helped erode! 

Offline Jimmy_James

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29587 on: February 10, 2017, 08:58:14 AM »
^But the private sector is allowed to take those chances. It is their money to blow. Elected officials have a fiduciary duty, it is not their job to take such risks.

I see where you're headed with this, but just playing devil's advocate...  that's not too far off from executives at publicly traded companies believing that their #1 responsibility is to return value to the shareholders.  So it's often not really their money to blow, either.
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Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29588 on: February 10, 2017, 10:03:58 AM »
The amount of money the city lost on Mohagany's is less than what Cranley blew on his streetcar crancellation & audit in December 2013.  He was pretending to be a fiduciary when really he was being an obstructionist.  And that sum was a fraction of the $50 million Cranley blew back in 2003 with the Anthem Demutualization.  $50 million from the pension fund found its way into donor's pockets.  He laid the groundwork for his 2013 campaign not just with public funds but with pension funds -- and ran on a platform to save the pension fund he helped erode! 

And that doesn't even begin to bring up how much the city was ripped off by TKILBAG which was a known scam by the time Cincinnati got one.   This was not even reported, which is so disgusting and highlights that race was probably a factor with Mahogany's.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29589 on: February 10, 2017, 10:26:51 AM »
Shhh... Toby will put a boot in your a$$

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29590 on: February 10, 2017, 10:49:37 AM »
Plus, everyone acted like it was cute when The Waterfront broke loose with 100+ people aboard and hit a bridge pier.  For the second time. 

All Jeff Ruby has to do is offer a reward and the local media gives him a round of free publicity.  But I didn't hear him offer a reward for anyone who could figure out how his restaurant got loose and started drifting downriver. 

Offline brian korte

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29591 on: February 15, 2017, 10:22:45 AM »
Over on John Schneider's facebook page the president of the local firefighters union expressed his desire to block the streetcar tracks as much as possible. This is absolutely insane and we should be blowing up the emails of the Mayor, City Manager and Councilmembers.

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29592 on: February 16, 2017, 04:56:26 PM »
A brewery and distillery is planned for the large building immediately north of the streetcar's car barn on Henry St.  The Findlay Market area continues to build momentum:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/historic-christian-moerlein-icehouse-new-distillery-and-brewery?sharedToken=fb86b4e0-bd2f-4e29-a243-15cb2ba753ac

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29593 on: February 16, 2017, 08:26:26 PM »
Over on John Schneider's facebook page the president of the local firefighters union expressed his desire to block the streetcar tracks as much as possible. This is absolutely insane and we should be blowing up the emails of the Mayor, City Manager and Councilmembers.

Not only that, but the president of the local transit workers union was complimenting the police and fire departments on the blockages. That's right, the head of the transit union is in favor of rail transit being blocked.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29594 on: February 16, 2017, 09:07:31 PM »
Over on John Schneider's facebook page the president of the local firefighters union expressed his desire to block the streetcar tracks as much as possible. This is absolutely insane and we should be blowing up the emails of the Mayor, City Manager and Councilmembers.

Not only that, but the president of the local transit workers union was complimenting the police and fire departments on the blockages. That's right, the head of the transit union is in favor of rail transit being blocked.

Aren't the streetcar drivers in the union themselves?

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29595 on: February 16, 2017, 09:09:13 PM »
They are.
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Offline bendixondavis

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29596 on: February 16, 2017, 09:42:31 PM »
A brewery and distillery is planned for the large building immediately north of the streetcar's car barn on Henry St.  The Findlay Market area continues to build momentum:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/historic-christian-moerlein-icehouse-new-distillery-and-brewery?sharedToken=fb86b4e0-bd2f-4e29-a243-15cb2ba753ac
After reading that I think it'd be awesome if they utilized the head Brewers name and named the brewery part Boss Cox brewing.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29597 on: February 17, 2017, 12:42:33 AM »
Here's an idea I had for building apartments above the streetcar car barn.  The site is actually very large and the short piece of Pleasant St. north of Findlay Market could be used as the entrance to a parking garage ramp.  As shown there is space for about 100 cars per level of parking and about 30 apartments averaging 1,000 sq feet could be built on each residential level.  Obviously there is more space available per level if the NW corner of the block is used (directly above the streetcar barn entrances) or the notch above the streetcar turnaround loop.  Using all of that space would increase the floor plate from approximately 35,000 sq feet to approximately 45,000.  So it would be possible to do 100~ traditional apartments on two levels above a single deck of parking, so the whole thing wouldn't be very tall.


Offline IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29598 on: February 17, 2017, 08:45:43 AM »
^They definitely need to get a parking ramp up by Findlay.  I am certain they are making plans for one, and actually I am pretty certain I read that the Findlay Market Association (sorry I know I am chopping that up I am sure) is asking the city for help and identifying one.  They will definitely need one soon with the way it is booming up there

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29599 on: February 17, 2017, 09:18:41 AM »
"Contrary to a recent media report, there are no discussions between the Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority and local tech firm Viaggi related to Wi-Fi on the Cincinnati Bell Connector."

http://cincinnatibellconnector.com/news/35/35/CLARIFICATION-WI-FI-NOT-BEING-DISCUSSED-WITH-VIAGGI
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29600 on: February 17, 2017, 09:21:09 AM »
trips are usually short enough on the streetcar that I don't see why people want wifi on it. Maybe at the stations? But not on the streetcar itself.
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Offline bendixondavis

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29601 on: February 17, 2017, 09:25:48 AM »
I thought the title of that article yesterday specifically said buses.

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29602 on: February 17, 2017, 10:59:16 AM »
trips are usually short enough on the streetcar that I don't see why people want wifi on it. Maybe at the stations? But not on the streetcar itself.

Now that every single wireless carrier offers unlimited data, wi-fi isn't really that much of a amenity.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 10:59:26 AM by thomasbw »

Offline ryanlammi

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29603 on: February 17, 2017, 11:04:14 AM »
Unlimited data is by no means universal for people. I imagine a vast majority don't have unlimited data.
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Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29604 on: February 17, 2017, 12:52:31 PM »
Here's an idea I had for building apartments above the streetcar car barn.  The site is actually very large and the short piece of Pleasant St. north of Findlay Market could be used as the entrance to a parking garage ramp.  As shown there is space for about 100 cars per level of parking and about 30 apartments averaging 1,000 sq feet could be built on each residential level.  Obviously there is more space available per level if the NW corner of the block is used (directly above the streetcar barn entrances) or the notch above the streetcar turnaround loop.  Using all of that space would increase the floor plate from approximately 35,000 sq feet to approximately 45,000.  So it would be possible to do 100~ traditional apartments on two levels above a single deck of parking, so the whole thing wouldn't be very tall.



I like that idea, especially if it could include the streetcar barn (I assume you meant to write *NE* corner of the block not NW). ... but I'm skeptical that the City would be open to a proposal like this. To date they just haven't seemed very creative about finding ways to integrate development into public infrastructure projects. That being said, I'd love to see them get creative about these kinds of city-owned properties.

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29605 on: February 17, 2017, 02:19:48 PM »
The four big potential development sites near Findlay Market are:

1. Findlay Market north parking lot -- the streetcar transformer would need to be moved underground and at least part of the site would need to remain open for the market's overflow summer vendors (although historically the market continued onto Elder between Race and Vine).
2. Findlay Playground -- probably the most controversial location for a parking garage and new development.
3. Volunteers of America + 1-story building at Henry & Elm -- if the VOA can be compelled to move their building could be combined with the 1-story brick building at Henry & Elm into a large development site
4. Streetcar car barn -- actually the largest of the four sites and there are no historic buildings to demolish or potential battles with "neighborhood advocates". 

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29606 on: February 18, 2017, 01:47:56 PM »
At the latest streetcar update for City Council, it was revealed that if the city wants to implement a monthly streetcar-only pass, it will be an ~8 month long process since it will have to go to the feds for approval. As with any mention of the streetcar on Facebook recently, this started a name-calling match where some "bus advocates" asked, "Why do streetcar supporters want their own monthly pass? Why can't they buy a regular Zone 1 Metro pass and use that for riding the streetcar?"

Okay, so a Zone 1 pass is $70/month. And if I bought a one-day streetcar pass every single day, I would spend at most $62 on streetcar passes each month. But honestly it's not the price that matters to me. I would happily spend $70 on a monthly streetcar pass.

What bothers me is that if I buy a monthly Zone 1 pass, Metro doesn't know that I am only using it to ride the streetcar. I want my $70 to go into the streetcar operating fund, not into the Metro general fund. Not because I don't support Metro in general... but because we've been fighting for the streetcar for a long time, and I want Metro to know that I am voting with my wallet and supporting the streetcar.
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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29607 on: February 18, 2017, 02:47:55 PM »
Jake- I think this is the solution to Findlay Market's search for parking. I took a look and even just a two level structure could fit about 250 spaces, without even extending as far as over as where the tracks loop around the building. This would be the perfect fit for this area, hardly even noticeable to anyone besides the streetcars and Rhinegeist trucks, yet steps away from Findlay's current parking lot, the front door of Rhinegeist and the new brewery and several streetcar stops.

I would scrap the idea for apartments, because I think they would be quite awkward to fit there, and spark a contentious debate about market rate vs. affordable housing, either of which would be fine but both would probably be too costly compared to the opportunity cost of developing on another site (market rate or affordable.) especially given height limitations.

Solar panels forming a canopy on the top level would be a nice touch, perhaps we could claim our streetcar runs off of renewable energy in that case.

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29608 on: February 21, 2017, 01:59:32 AM »
On Sunday Feb 19 I walked two miles from Rhinegeist south to Second St., then rode the streetcar back. 

You can guess how many streetcars are running by how many you see parked from the steps connecting Race and W. Clifton, but one streetcar is usually parked in the barn and sometimes another is running for training purposes. 


Findlay Market stop on Race St. around 2:30pm:


Entire block under renovation directly across the street:








Streetcar on Elm at Findlay Market:


On 12th:


On Main St.:


On Second St. at The Banks:


On 12th approaching Vine St.:


On 12th at Washington Park:


Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News
« Reply #29609 on: February 21, 2017, 08:12:44 AM »
^ Nice!
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