Author Topic: Cleveland: Flats East Bank  (Read 1591884 times)

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Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #665 on: February 06, 2007, 07:17:23 AM »
To start demo on the land Wolstein already controlled though, which would have nothing to do with the Eminent Domain proceedings, since in December and now, they do not controll the land in question.   
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Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #666 on: February 06, 2007, 11:19:29 AM »
Wimwar, I think we are on the same page, I just was not very articulate (which is ironic since I felt the news blurb lacked clarity).  Again I am guessing that the property owners lost the administrative appeal.  They were objecting to the city's permission to allow the demolition of the buildings currently owned by Wolstein.  Since they lost the appeal, Wolstein can begin demolition.  Again my point is that this really does not have anything to do with the eminent domain proceedings which continue to drag on.

I am really not up on the procedure so I am wondering if the property owners can continue to appeal the decision, perhaps to the Common Pleas court.  I know appeals of decisions by state administrative agencies go that route.  Again I am not sure if this is the end of the road (as far as the demolition issue is concerned) or whether the property owners (who have not been shy in doing what ever it takes to pursue their agenda, what ever that may really be...they have to be spending a fortune in legal fees) can still seek review.   My best guess is that they can appeal further but again, not quite sure.  Does anybody know?

Offline urbanlife

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #667 on: February 06, 2007, 12:21:01 PM »
and the owners in the ED proceedings don't want any buildings torn down b/c ultimatley that hurts their case that this is not a blighted neighborhood, etc.
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Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #668 on: February 06, 2007, 12:22:26 PM »
now that the appeal has been denied, any word on when demo would begin?

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #669 on: February 06, 2007, 12:41:12 PM »
I am really not up on the procedure so I am wondering if the property owners can continue to appeal the decision, perhaps to the Common Pleas court.

Good question. I'm pretty sure that you can take it over to Common Pleas, but is it an appeal as of right?  I'm assuming that they'd need an injunction to stop the demo. I glanced throught civ pro rules, but its hard to pick out the rules for administrative courts.

Offline jamiec

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #670 on: February 06, 2007, 12:52:17 PM »
^ Wow, this would be a great time for the PD to actually follow-up on news!

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #671 on: February 06, 2007, 07:13:08 PM »
Or the Sun, which I did earlier today. No demolition permits have been pulled yet. But that should happen VERY soon.

But I found out something much more interesting. Like, the merging of Flats East Bank and Lighthouse Landing. The paperwork should have been signed today, but there were some minor text glitches that needed correcting. So it's safe to safe they are literally dotting the i's and crossing the t's.
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Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #672 on: February 06, 2007, 07:32:58 PM »
That's great news! Great to see that Wolstein saw the value in merging the projects.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #673 on: February 06, 2007, 08:15:01 PM »
I Lighthouse Landing going to be pretty much the same as Shia envisioned, or are there going to be substantial revisions?

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #674 on: February 06, 2007, 08:34:14 PM »
According to a second-hand source, Wolstein said he liked the original plan for LL. While the first phase would still be the residential tower, Wolstein will market the second tower to any potential user -- be it residential, office or even hotel. I don't have too many details yet, and probably won't until the paperwork is signed.
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #675 on: February 07, 2007, 12:21:54 PM »
Heard from Nancy Lesic this morning regarding the demolition work. Crews and equipment should start appearing in the Flats in about a week and start demolitions before the end of February.
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Offline bizbiz

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #676 on: February 07, 2007, 07:53:01 PM »
^ Yeah damn right baby! Let the party begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline J. Dub

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #677 on: February 07, 2007, 08:15:53 PM »
Yes!!!  That's great news KJP, I can't wait to see some progress with this project.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #678 on: February 07, 2007, 09:16:12 PM »
Best news downtown's had in a while.  I positively love the awesome adaptive reuse work we've been doing in the WHD and in Gateway... But our downtown sorely needs to mix in some new construction, esp high-rises.  I liked Wolstein's original project.  That Lighthouse Landing's high-rises are, now, going to be a part of it, is stunning.

Now, w/ the 1,000 unit, for-sale, expansion to occur across the river at Stonebridge, the Flats is going to rise as though a new city.  I miss, like hell, the old Flats, no doubt and that funky, warehouse, Bourbon Street-by-the-water will be gone forever... But this new, more permanent Flats, with thousands and thousands of new residents (and their friends -- as in, UOers) milling about at restaurants and retail, bodes for a much stronger, healthier Flats of the future.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #679 on: February 07, 2007, 09:46:57 PM »
Won't this look pretty next to (er, part of) Flats East Bank?



Street-level uses (below the towers).....

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Offline Mov2Ohio

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #680 on: February 07, 2007, 09:52:44 PM »
^YES!!!!

I think even the sight of all this construction (and the neighborhoods created as a result) will give people that don't have them, more positive feelings about where the city is headed.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 10:05:05 PM by Mov2Ohio »
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Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #681 on: February 07, 2007, 10:08:24 PM »
Cool..   Thanks for posting KJP.  Havent seen that rendering yet.
Exciting stuff, and really glad to hear it will be incorporated. 
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #682 on: February 07, 2007, 10:16:20 PM »
I have some cool quotes in an article in tomorrow's West Side Sun about the merging of the two projects, but the article didn't end up on the front page like I had hoped. Cimperman's quote was the funniest.
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Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #683 on: February 07, 2007, 10:19:31 PM »
I will be coming back to Cleveland tomorrow, so I will be able to pick it up!
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Offline Mov2Ohio

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #684 on: February 07, 2007, 10:48:18 PM »
So right now we don't know if the taller tower will be residential or what is that correct?
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Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #685 on: February 08, 2007, 12:16:55 AM »
(LL) While the first phase would still be the residential tower, Wolstein will market the second tower to any potential user -- be it residential, office or even hotel.

I'd love a hotel in one of the towers.  This would enhance the probability of more diverse, spin-off retail in the immediate area.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #686 on: February 08, 2007, 06:16:36 AM »
So right now we don't know if the taller tower will be residential or what is that correct?

One of the towers will be residential. Don't know if it's the taller or shorter one yet.
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Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #687 on: February 08, 2007, 06:36:11 AM »
(LL) While the first phase would still be the residential tower, Wolstein will market the second tower to any potential user -- be it residential, office or even hotel.

I'd love a hotel in one of the towers.  This would enhance the probability of more diverse, spin-off retail in the immediate area.

That would be the perfect place for a W Hotel - Cleveland in the Warehouse District!
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Offline sooner

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #688 on: February 08, 2007, 08:04:41 AM »
KJP-just curious, did you kinow about this for quite a while? and is this possibly the 'big' project that has been hinted to you by other sources?

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #689 on: February 08, 2007, 08:31:10 AM »
Yes, I've known this was in the works for some time. Cimperman first told me about it in December, so I called Shaia and he confirmed it but asked me not to publish anything yet. He also asked me to call him back in two weeks, which I did. There still wasn't a deal. I called Nancy Lesic to see what Wolstein's development team was willing to say. She said there was a joint development being pursued for the site but there were no specifics yet.

I sat on the story for another month or so. When news of the demolition appeal by 13 Flats property owners was turned down, I called Lesic back to find out when demolition would start. She wasn't in so I left a message. Since I was planning on writing an article about the Flats East Bank anyway, I called Shaia on Tuesday to see if there was anything new on his end. He said the paperwork to close the deal was sent to him earlier that day but there were minor wording issues to resolve. He said the deal could be done in days but couldn't release its details.

Well, since Sun is a weekly and the PD is a daily, and if the paperwork was signed this week, it wouldn't be until next Thursday before I could have anything published on it. The PD might scoop me on a story I've sat on for more than two months.

And, no, this is not the "big" project that's been hinted to me. Turns out there's a couple of downtown projects that are in the hopper. I now know what one of them is -- let's see if anyone here remembers "Gray's Green."
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Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #690 on: February 08, 2007, 08:33:46 AM »
Well KJP, we'll all remember we heard it first from you here!   
Also "Grays Green"   hmmm something to do with Grays Armory maybe...?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 08:37:00 AM by willyboy »
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Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #691 on: February 08, 2007, 11:28:35 AM »
Is that article available on line?  I couldn't find it in the Sun section of Cleveland.com...

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #692 on: February 08, 2007, 11:35:56 AM »
Grays Green would have been some sort of project connecting Playhouse Square to Gateway, right?

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #693 on: February 08, 2007, 11:41:56 AM »
Also "Grays Green"   hmmm something to do with Grays Armory maybe...?
Grays Green would have been some sort of project connecting Playhouse Square to Gateway, right?

Give those guys see-gars! I probably shouldn't say much more in case the PD or Crain's is reading this. Besides, the Gray's Green discussion belongs in a new thread anyway.

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Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #694 on: February 08, 2007, 11:48:02 AM »
Ok, so create it!  And let's start digging for the project's history in preparation for its resurrection!

Nice article, BTW.  Joe C  :fight: Shaia

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Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #695 on: February 12, 2007, 03:05:29 PM »
Has there been discussion of height restrictions along the waterfront?

Like most, I love reading about Lighthouse Landing and all of the possibilities for new development. Though I am a little worried that in the future, tall buildings might crowd out and cast shadows all along the lake and river.

In my opinion the best coastal areas restrict heights along the shoreline to approx. 3-4 floors. I am not sure Cleveland should emulate Chicago by building tall straight up to the waters edge-  they have many more beaches and parks than we do. At any rate, lets hope for quality buildings with well thought out planning.

p.s.I would love if Wolstein and others would emulate the distinctly northern/coastal look in these pics:

http://www.theoceanblue.com/jpgs/cds/denmark.jpg

http://www.nbportal.com/travel-destinations/denmark/

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #696 on: February 12, 2007, 03:31:50 PM »
Did you simply mean the scale of the structures in those photos?  If so, I agree.  If not...
Please, no more neo classical, fake corniced buildings.  We have plenty of those to go around in the suburbs.  We need progressive ideas to shape the aesthetics of our city.  Europeans wouldn't dare try to replicate those structures on those websites from the above reply.  Why are Americans so obsessed with trying to make things look old.  We certainly wouldn't want to use a computer or an automobile with 19th century technology in our day to day lives, so why would you want our cities and dwellings to appear old?
This city needs to define its point in history now, not fake something from 150 years ago.
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Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #697 on: February 12, 2007, 03:39:45 PM »
^I agree - scalewise, that's probably ideal for the location. However, putting up faux-Colonial, faux-Classical, faux-any historic architecture that's already been done would be a huge mistake.

There's one thing I'd like to see in and around the Flats, should the concrete companies decide to relocate. Rather than demo'ing the silos, they could be reused as awesome (and solid as heck) residential projects. Here's a pic from the Terminal Tower of one such silo:



The rounded building in the center is an example of how that could work (from staff on the skyscraperpage.com forum):


Online mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #698 on: February 12, 2007, 03:45:44 PM »
^ those are quite nice and airy. funny what a little variety, glass and making the building white can do to brighten things up. still, these remind me of stonebridge in that there is nothing going on at ground level. we gotta have ground level retail etc action too.
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Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #699 on: February 12, 2007, 05:11:01 PM »
I meant to show the building's, scale wise. I don't think any new architecture should be cheap reminders of classic architecture. But I hope they somehow integrate with the classic, nautical feel of the old Flats. They did an excellent job of this in Fells Point, integrateing old and new.

MayDay I love the silo idea. Though I agree with mrnyc about needing ground level presence. That's killing me with Stonebridge!

I think the very best thing Wolstein can do is open up the lakefront and riverfront with a boardwalk. Since the closing of Euclid Beach Park, Cleveland has been missing that one magnetic place for people to congregate. Imagine thousands of residents and visitors alike walking along a lively waterfront...

http://www.beach-net.com/ImgOCboards.JPEG

« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 05:16:26 PM by surfohio »

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