Author Topic: Cleveland: Flats East Bank  (Read 1582542 times)

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Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2005, 12:09:02 PM »
Seriously, and why can't we have two bookstores downtown???  Really, I think that once developers and retailers see how much public money is going into downtown development and how much of an emphasis there is on residential growth, they'll be lining up to get in on the action!  Or at least, that's how I see it...

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2005, 07:33:36 PM »
MDG,

There was an article in Crains this week about how a developer backed out of buying the Reserve Square apartment building because it had just been released that Cleveland was the poorest big city.  There are many reasons why national chains will drag their feet before jumping on the downtown band wagon.  Reputation is definitely one of them. I think that eventually we could handle two large book stores, but not now.  Sometimes, I wish we could fast forward a decade and see what developments actually take place.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2005, 11:00:33 PM »
kind of like in Sim City?

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2005, 02:04:04 AM »
Exactly.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2005, 12:57:52 PM »
I can't find the topic, but I remember reading that the port authority was looking into buying up WHD lots to squeeze out other lot owners.  Looks like Cleveland has had this idea going for a while. Below is an excerpt from Bruce Blog in late 2003

Plans are in the works for the development of a new city park in the Flats known as Canal Basin Park, located just west of where Forest City wanted to build a convention center. First, the Cleveland Waterfront Coalition, the nonprofit that fought to save two of the giant Hulett ore unloaders, is conducting an engineering study to see if a parcel of land at the river’s edge is suitable to support the Huletts. The land, just west of the Carter Road Bridge, is owned by businessman Mike Miller, who tore down an old B&O railroad station and paved it over for parking.

The city really wants a park there and an achievable green space initiative that it can get a win on (one that is easier or more achievable than Whiskey Island) and that Campbell administration can take credit for. So, the city surrounded Miller with parking and lowered their rates to effectively squeeze his parking operation out—which seems to be working—he can’t fill his lot even charging $1 a day.The CWC is spending some considerable money to test the soil to see if the riverbank land could support the tonnage of the Huletts and to assess the market value of the land in order to make Miller a competitive offer.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #75 on: April 20, 2005, 03:45:36 PM »
sounds unfair, but i like it!

Offline Punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2005, 10:17:52 PM »
Interesting interview from Crains Cleveland, it mentions this project.


 Engineering a new Cleveland
Few companies have had their hands in as many Northeast Ohio projects as engineering, design and architecture company URS Corp.

The company, led in Cleveland by 44-year-old lifelong Northeast Ohioan Gary Hribar, has done design work on Gund Arena, Jacobs Field, Cleveland Browns Stadium, Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority, and widening of State Route 91 in Mayfield Village.

Mr. Hribar, a 13-year veteran with URS, took the reins of the company’s Cleveland office late last year, after serving an apprenticeship under Bill Laubscher, who led the office since 1995.

More at crainscleveland.com http://www.crainscleveland.com
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 11:30:55 AM by MayDay »
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Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2005, 10:50:31 PM »
now its over 200 million....??

Offline WoollyBear

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2005, 08:59:44 AM »
S**t, atleast this project is starting. I am really interested in seeing what they are planning on building. I am excited to see that there is going to be a residential component to this project though.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2005, 09:46:58 AM »
I find it interesting that they said the residential component would be large.  I wonder if they have changed their focus since we last heard about these plans.  It seemed that the commercial aspect was more important then.

Offline Punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2005, 10:24:26 AM »
well, maybe the steel prices are factoring into it.  Also, plastic components have increased along with the price of oil.  I really hope the project has expanded, but it may be just the cost of materials
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Online Paul in Cleveland

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2005, 06:34:15 PM »
Take a look at Penton. Penton was a company that moved downtown into the Bond Court building and should be a thriving company, but has fallen on tough times for whatever reason.

Sorry for the aside.  From a 10-year Penton employee, I should mention that Penton has always been downtown (we used to own the Penton Press in Berea, too).  Before moving into the old Bond Court Building, we were in the Diamond Building.  We've also been in the old Penton Plaza (near Perk Park, now renamed something else) and in the Rockefeller Bldg. many years ago.

Penton got in trouble because we bought up a bunch of Internet-type publications and trade shows right before the Internet bubble burst, and we also invested heavily in trade shows, and then 9-11 made everyone want to stay home.  Double whammy.  The company would be doing fine, except we have over $300 million in debt with nothing to show for it.  Our ex-CEO made a lot of dumb moves, thank goodness he's gone now!  Hopefully, in a few years, we will be a much stronger company, if we can refinance our debt.


Offline Punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2005, 09:24:48 PM »
glad to hear it Paul, that interview kinda bummed me out
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Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #83 on: May 10, 2005, 09:30:24 PM »
RE the Crain article:  Everyone has a viewpoint, but I wouldn't assume that an engineer is necessarily any better informed about the city's economic condition than any other person.  Interesting observations, but take them with a grain of salt.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2005, 05:26:25 PM »
Well, finally we are going to hear about this proposed project.  This should give us something positive to talk about..   :yap:  :clap:

Flats project to be unveiled

By BRANDON GLENN
 
Plans are set to be unveiled Monday, May 16, for a new $200 million real estate project on the East Bank of Cleveland’s Flats.

A statement released this afternoon from public relations company Lesic & Camper Communications LLC announced Monday’s news conference, but provided few details. According to the statement, the project “represents the largest private sector investment in Cleveland since 1988.”
 
More at http://crainscleveland.com/news.cms?newsId=3355
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 11:31:49 AM by MayDay »

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2005, 05:39:50 PM »
wow, some very good news! mayday you have a lunch appointment, bring camera!!!
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Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2005, 05:49:50 PM »
oh awesome

is that the full article?

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2005, 06:01:32 PM »
Yep. It is the full article.  I am hoping that they tell Crains before Monday so that the story will be in next week's edition.  They always post the new edition at midnight Sunday night.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2005, 06:52:03 PM »
...Which is why I'm always up till 1:00 Monday morning!  Ok, just kidding, I'm always up till 1:00 AM.

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2005, 08:25:20 AM »
$230 million Flats plan picks up speed
Thursday, May 12, 2005

Christopher Montgomery
Plain Dealer Reporter

Backers of a long-discussed revitalization plan for the east bank of the Flats will kick off a campaign next week to gain support for the $230 million project. Public financing, a major question about the development in the past, appears to be falling into place.

Developer Scott Wolstein is proposing a mixed-use development composed of 300 housing units - split evenly between condominiums and apartments - and commercial components that could include a multiplex theater, grocery store, bookstore and other retail.


More at http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/111589061235222.xml&coll=2
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 11:32:10 AM by MayDay »

Offline Punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2005, 11:04:52 AM »
Ignorant question:
Knowing where this development is, can there be a way to incorporate the waterfront line?

By the way, the corporate head of IT has told just told me that I am one of the top 25 abusers of the internet in the company in the world.  So I may participate less, at least during the day.  :-(
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Offline FerrariEnzo

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #91 on: May 12, 2005, 11:43:54 AM »
I hate to be the pessimistic one but isnt 300 units pretty skimpy?  3000 would be a bit more like it.
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Offline FerrariEnzo

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #92 on: May 12, 2005, 11:45:34 AM »
lol punch what a super superlative... btw isnt if funny how this started out as 170 million then 200 and now 230 as reported by the PD??  Maybe when its near completion we will have a multi billion dollar investment.
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Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #93 on: May 12, 2005, 11:47:12 AM »
 :clap:    :clap:

lets pray there is only a small parking lot included.  we dont need more parking spaces/lots downtown.

What is this, the third reincarnation of the flats?  Second since 1983?
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Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #94 on: May 12, 2005, 11:52:33 AM »
I think that the waterfront line dissects the project.  Doesn't Wolstein own the land between main avenue and west 10th.  I know that long ago they had plans to turn that mega-lot into a parking garage. 

I really like that there will be public boardwalk.  I would hope that it could someday stretch down to settlers landing.  If done well, that would certainly improve public access to the waterfront.  I am excited to see the plans.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #95 on: May 12, 2005, 11:54:24 AM »
Ferrari,

I agree with you about the units.  But, maybe it makes sense with the development as planned.  I would hope for more, but 150 condos is a very healthy amount.

Offline WoollyBear

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #96 on: May 12, 2005, 12:40:25 PM »
I was kind of puzzeled by the amount of residential. For $230 million I thought there would be more. There must be a lot of office, and commercial planned. This is great news for Cleveland, hopefully it blends in with the WHD nicely.

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #97 on: May 12, 2005, 12:50:21 PM »
"wow, some very good news! mayday you have a lunch appointment, bring camera!!!"

Um, excuse me but did it ever occur to anyone that I might have a life

Just kidding, of course I don't have a life (sad but true) so I will do my best to be there!

Folks as far as the residential count - well, the Bingham has a little over 300 units spread over 12 enormous floors. So take the Bingham and flatten it to say, 3 or 4 stories but spread it out to accomodate the same total of units. That covers a lot of space if you ask me.

Offline FerrariEnzo

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #98 on: May 12, 2005, 03:19:30 PM »
How much did Pinnacle end ip costing for comparison reasons?  Then we can predict the size ans scope of this project and its relationship to amount of units.
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Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #99 on: May 12, 2005, 03:54:57 PM »
Yeah, 300 units isn't that considerable, but there's already so much residential down there and not as much commercial/retail diversity.  So, commercial focus is ok by me!  And spinoff residential will surely follow once this one gets moving.  You can bet on it!

I'm stoked...

Offline Punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #100 on: May 12, 2005, 05:54:00 PM »
I wonder how much of the projects price tag is things like the public boardwalk and reconfigured streets and sewers.  The earlier articles say they are looking for $20M from the city for stuff like that
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Offline Ewoops

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #101 on: May 12, 2005, 07:54:24 PM »
Does anyone have any idea if there are firm commitments from a bookstore, movie theater, or grocer yet?  If that were the case, I'd sign up right now.  I can't wait until they announce the details of the project, this could be incredible.  I still think that mixing in boutique hotels would make the area even more incredible.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #102 on: May 12, 2005, 08:01:14 PM »
absolutely!  and I really can't wait to hear about all the possible retailers...hold your breath for monday!

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #103 on: May 12, 2005, 08:14:38 PM »
it sounds better than a lifestyle center... lol

i wonder if this will help spark some other projects like district park and the proposed W9th tower across the street.  this is definately going to link the WD to the Flats and its RIGHT on the WL so its a perfect transit oritented development as well.  i wonder how that will look from the WL since right about there is where the train elevates up.   i could see them adding another station too

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #104 on: May 13, 2005, 12:15:15 AM »
Stonebridge also has just over 300 units, I believe, and you see how huge that project is.  And it includes a small amount of office and commercial, too -- and this is expanding.   Wolstein's tipping a lot toward commercial -- I too am a bit taken by the inflation from $170 to $230M since December -- maybe that's good.  I'm not quite sure of the physical parameters, but I don't think, at this time, it will extend north of the Waterfront Rapid line (onto P.A. land) at this time.  This project should spin-off development -- although let's not count on too much, this is a slow developing town that is not prone to multi-unit development on a large scale.   Don't forget, the handsome Riverbend condo's been there since the early 1980s.  We're not like D.C., Chicago or Toronto where they throw up huge developments at the drop of a hat.  One disturbing note is I think Wolstein is oriented toward bulldozing all the storefronts on Old River, which would be too bad.  While some of its junk, there’s a good deal of unique, historic architecture there.  It would tend to presage the more boring, bland stuff like that in Baltimore’s Harborplace/Inner Harbor (gag).

My biggest hope is that this development, whatever form it shall eventually take (and will probably evolve significantly from what's on paper, now -- that's the way development is), that it is a more substantial/permanent revival of the East Bank into something more than the fly-by-night bars and restaurants of the 1980s/90s -- by all accounts, it will be.  Maybe, just maybe, this will generate more daytime foot traffic than exists right now (which is close to nil) And I hope that and expect the Waterfront Line will reap the traffic benefits, so its naysayers will shut the hell up and go away once and for all.   :-D

And let’s hope this will spell bye-bye to all that surface parking behind the building lines and the Waterfront Rapid.  (btw – surface parking just grew in the area as the derelict, though fixable, buildings next to/behind the Flat Iron Café were torn down a month or so ago – double damn!  :whip:

I've got the feeling this development will be compact with a lot of density, which will be good.  We'll learn more Monday, I guess, when Wolstein, Jane & co plan to go on a splashy media blitz.

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