Author Topic: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News  (Read 389359 times)

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Offline Dougal

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2100 on: September 13, 2017, 12:28:44 PM »
I don't know if this belongs in the "crazy comment" category, but a friend of mine who was familiar with Amazon's RFP process and Bezos said that when Bezos gets one look at Chief Wahoo, he'll immediately reject Cleveland no matter what else it has to offer.

The Washington Post, owned by Bezos, has no problem with the Redskins nickname. 

Offline I Went West

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2101 on: September 13, 2017, 12:56:56 PM »
Given the amount of city income taxes Amazon would generate

That's another thing to consider. Totally forgot about that. Seattle doesn't have a city income tax (even though one is proposed there's no way it'll go through) and Washington State no income tax. Sales tax is high at 10%.

Cleveland has a city income tax and Ohio an income tax. From what I can tell is that Cleveland has a 2.5% rate and the state 4.5%.  Is that correct?

At an average salary of $100k, that's around $500/month in local and state taxes.

Is it possible, as a concession, to not charge city and state income tax on Amazon employees?

Online down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2102 on: September 13, 2017, 12:58:54 PM »
^ you need to look beyond taxes when making comparison from place to place.  The overall cost of living or doing business is what a company will look at if costs are a huge concern.  My guess is that costs are secondary to the labor pool of the region considering that they are located in high cost Seattle. 

Offline edale

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2103 on: September 13, 2017, 01:22:27 PM »
The number I have seen about the total number of employees Amazon would bring to their HQ2 is 50,000. That is an insane amount when you think about it. Proctor and Gamble, one of the largest, most globally recognized companies in the world, only employs about 10-12,000 in Cincinnati. Amazon would be like adding 5 new P&Gs to the city. I think Ohio's cities are simply too small to absorb such a rapid massive increase in employment like that. We only have so many people who can fill these jobs, and only so many places that new employees can live. A sudden addition of 50,000 workers + their families would be an insane increase for Cleveland, Cincinnati, or Columbus. Another fact for reference: Downtown Cincy is home to something like ~75,000 employees. Amazon HQ2 would be like adding almost an entirely new downtown to the city/region. I just don't see the capacity existing.

A larger metro could definitely handle this HQ better, I think. I would hate to see it go some place lame like Dallas or DC. Those cities don't need Amazon, and really, its presence would only contribute to the massive sprawl that exists in those metros. Atlanta would probably be a similar situation, but I am intrigued by the prospects of growing ATL so large that it forces the State of Georgia blue in coming elections. I think the best choice for Amazon would be Detroit. Keep in mind, metro Detroit is huge- roughly the same size as metro Atlanta, and double the size of any of Ohio's largest metros. Amazon could easily build a huge tower in Downtown Detroit, and also a large campus out in the burbs, where so many of Detroit's educated labor market lives and works currently. You have a class A airport, access to a large labor pool, proximity to a major public university (let's face it, UM has a way better reputation than just about any school in Ohio), great optics of 'saving' Detroit, insanely cheap real estate, easy access to most of Canada and the eastern half of the US. The only knock might be the perceived inability to attract talent there.

One thing that is intriguing, but will never happen, is for Ohio, rather than any particular city, to land the HQ2. Imagine, 15k jobs to each of the 3Cs. That would be doable and still would have a tremendous impact on the economy of each city. We can dream, right?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 01:24:22 PM by edale »

Offline ChiCleveKid

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2104 on: September 13, 2017, 01:30:57 PM »
I haven't seen this posted yet but if anyone cares what Dan Gilbert thinks about HQ2 in Detroit here goes...

http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2017/09/08/dan-gilbert-amazon-hq-2/645218001/

Now if Detroit for some reason gets cut out of the process before CLE does it will be interesting to see how Gilbert can help NEO with the bidding process.

Offline Dougal

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2105 on: September 13, 2017, 01:31:22 PM »
This isn't Amazon, but it's a nice little addition to the aerospace manufacturing sector. Opening in Brecksville, with seven employees growing to 29 by 2021. From Test-Fuchs website:

" TEST-FUCHS lands shortly in Cleveland Ohio. Apply today!

TEST-FUCHS will begin operations at the birthplace of aviation in Ohio. For our local operations in Cleveland, Ohio we are looking for candidates for various job vacancies. We encourage you to apply today and join us!"

http://www.cleveland.com/brecksville/index.ssf/2017/09/austrian_designer_of_aircraft.html#incart_river_index

Offline BCCLE1

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2106 on: September 13, 2017, 01:36:01 PM »
I haven't seen this posted yet but if anyone cares what Dan Gilbert thinks about HQ2 in Detroit here goes...

http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2017/09/08/dan-gilbert-amazon-hq-2/645218001/

Now if Detroit for some reason gets cut out of the process before CLE does it will be interesting to see how Gilbert can help NEO with the bidding process.

Dan Gilbert does not really care about the CLE, and this article proves it even more. I've said all along that DG only cares about making as much money as he can off of NEO citizens to cover his cost of his business' here, and taking the profits back to Detroit.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 01:40:29 PM by BCCLE1 »

Online Oldmanladyluck

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2107 on: September 13, 2017, 01:42:16 PM »
The number I have seen about the total number of employees Amazon would bring to their HQ2 is 50,000. That is an insane amount when you think about it. Proctor and Gamble, one of the largest, most globally recognized companies in the world, only employs about 10-12,000 in Cincinnati. Amazon would be like adding 5 new P&Gs to the city. I think Ohio's cities are simply too small to absorb such a rapid massive increase in employment like that. We only have so many people who can fill these jobs, and only so many places that new employees can live. A sudden addition of 50,000 workers + their families would be an insane increase for Cleveland, Cincinnati, or Columbus. Another fact for reference: Downtown Cincy is home to something like ~75,000 employees. Amazon HQ2 would be like adding almost an entirely new downtown to the city/region. I just don't see the capacity existing.

A larger metro could definitely handle this HQ better, I think. I would hate to see it go some place lame like Dallas or DC. Those cities don't need Amazon, and really, its presence would only contribute to the massive sprawl that exists in those metros. Atlanta would probably be a similar situation, but I am intrigued by the prospects of growing ATL so large that it forces the State of Georgia blue in coming elections. I think the best choice for Amazon would be Detroit. Keep in mind, metro Detroit is huge- roughly the same size as metro Atlanta, and double the size of any of Ohio's largest metros. Amazon could easily build a huge tower in Downtown Detroit, and also a large campus out in the burbs, where so many of Detroit's educated labor market lives and works currently. You have a class A airport, access to a large labor pool, proximity to a major public university (let's face it, UM has a way better reputation than just about any school in Ohio), great optics of 'saving' Detroit, insanely cheap real estate, easy access to most of Canada and the eastern half of the US. The only knock might be the perceived inability to attract talent there.

One thing that is intriguing, but will never happen, is for Ohio, rather than any particular city, to land the HQ2. Imagine, 15k jobs to each of the 3Cs. That would be doable and still would have a tremendous impact on the economy of each city. We can dream, right?

I think Cleveland has the capacity- downtown had roughly 150,000 workers back in the 90s, even more the further you go back.  The infrastructure to support 50,000 workers is already here- but without question if Amazon were to come here or any other city in the Midwest, it would be a game-changer.  The current office supply couldn't support 50,000 workers, so new buildings would need to be built. The impact of 50,000 people making an average of $100,000 each would unquestionably create jobs due to people having to eat, shop, sleep, and play somewhere locally.  I hope the push for Amazon to move to the CLE was hard enough to at least have Cleveland considered.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 01:43:19 PM by Oldmanladyluck »
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Offline ChiCleveKid

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2108 on: September 13, 2017, 01:47:07 PM »
I haven't seen this posted yet but if anyone cares what Dan Gilbert thinks about HQ2 in Detroit here goes...

http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2017/09/08/dan-gilbert-amazon-hq-2/645218001/

Now if Detroit for some reason gets cut out of the process before CLE does it will be interesting to see how Gilbert can help NEO with the bidding process.

Dan Gilbert does not really care about the CLE, and this article proves it even more. I've said all along that DG only cares about making as much money as he can off of NEO citizens to cover his cost of his business' here, and taking the profits back to Detroit.



Agreed but if DET gets eliminated before CLE he would definitely benefit from helping NEO...it just depends how the selection process plays out.

Offline BCCLE1

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2109 on: September 13, 2017, 01:56:35 PM »
The number I have seen about the total number of employees Amazon would bring to their HQ2 is 50,000. That is an insane amount when you think about it. Proctor and Gamble, one of the largest, most globally recognized companies in the world, only employs about 10-12,000 in Cincinnati. Amazon would be like adding 5 new P&Gs to the city. I think Ohio's cities are simply too small to absorb such a rapid massive increase in employment like that. We only have so many people who can fill these jobs, and only so many places that new employees can live. A sudden addition of 50,000 workers + their families would be an insane increase for Cleveland, Cincinnati, or Columbus. Another fact for reference: Downtown Cincy is home to something like ~75,000 employees. Amazon HQ2 would be like adding almost an entirely new downtown to the city/region. I just don't see the capacity existing.

A larger metro could definitely handle this HQ better, I think. I would hate to see it go some place lame like Dallas or DC. Those cities don't need Amazon, and really, its presence would only contribute to the massive sprawl that exists in those metros. Atlanta would probably be a similar situation, but I am intrigued by the prospects of growing ATL so large that it forces the State of Georgia blue in coming elections. I think the best choice for Amazon would be Detroit. Keep in mind, metro Detroit is huge- roughly the same size as metro Atlanta, and double the size of any of Ohio's largest metros. Amazon could easily build a huge tower in Downtown Detroit, and also a large campus out in the burbs, where so many of Detroit's educated labor market lives and works currently. You have a class A airport, access to a large labor pool, proximity to a major public university (let's face it, UM has a way better reputation than just about any school in Ohio), great optics of 'saving' Detroit, insanely cheap real estate, easy access to most of Canada and the eastern half of the US. The only knock might be the perceived inability to attract talent there.

One thing that is intriguing, but will never happen, is for Ohio, rather than any particular city, to land the HQ2. Imagine, 15k jobs to each of the 3Cs. That would be doable and still would have a tremendous impact on the economy of each city. We can dream, right?

I think Cleveland has the capacity- downtown had roughly 150,000 workers back in the 90s, even more the further you go back.  The infrastructure to support 50,000 workers is already here- but without question if Amazon were to come here or any other city in the Midwest, it would be a game-changer.  The current office supply couldn't support 50,000 workers, so new buildings would need to be built. The impact of 50,000 people making an average of $100,000 each would unquestionably create jobs due to people having to eat, shop, sleep, and play somewhere locally.  I hope the push for Amazon to move to the CLE was hard enough to at least have Cleveland considered.

I've always heard and seen statistics that the downtown CLE workforce back in the 70's - 80's was approx. 125k, and as of approx. 2010 - current is about 95k. So, if the CLE were chosen for the Amazon HQ2 city, it could easily handle the additional 50k as 30k of the 50 would only get us back to a level from 40 - 50 years ago. The downtown infrastructure has not changed from the 70-80's to current. At least not the size of the streets, parks, underground utilities, etc. The number of buildings though has, along with how some of the buildings use has changed (office to residential and/or hotel).



Online McLovin

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2110 on: September 13, 2017, 02:03:04 PM »
Cleveland not being a "big enough" metro or prepared to absorb a large influx like 50,000 people isn't a good excuse or reason to me. If we never begin to attract a large influx of jobs at once how will we be able to in the future? We have to start doing it at sometime to be "used to it" or "able to" in the future. This is the perfect time to get our feet wet per say. We absorbed tons of jobs and hundreds of thousands of residents during our peak, if we are at a renaissance I don't see why we can't jump start it here.

Offline MissinOhio

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2111 on: September 13, 2017, 02:15:51 PM »
Great Lakes should come out with an Amazon Ale? Wtf? Those ideas wreak of desperation. I don't see this happening at all. They're probably just going to go with Boston. That is what their execs are pushing for. Perception is reality and no one thinks Cleveland is any particular hot spot for human capital outside of health care.

Answer this... Have you not been paying attention nationally to how every city that meets the requirements of "1 million or more people will be considered" has acted in the past week?  I mean every urban internet forum is full of crazy chamber of commerce speeches why their respective city will be the best.  Cincinnati's CD forum has given me a good laugh.  From Milwaukee to Buffalo, everyone has a reason why their city fits the bill.  It's not just Cleveland, no matter how hard you try to make it out to be.

It will most likely be a larger city with good transit, cheap, and home to a large talent pool.  Although there was a report out today that said the executives at Amazon really want it in Boston.

Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2112 on: September 13, 2017, 03:56:31 PM »

Offline edale

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2113 on: September 13, 2017, 04:21:30 PM »
Cleveland not being a "big enough" metro or prepared to absorb a large influx like 50,000 people isn't a good excuse or reason to me. If we never begin to attract a large influx of jobs at once how will we be able to in the future? We have to start doing it at sometime to be "used to it" or "able to" in the future. This is the perfect time to get our feet wet per say. We absorbed tons of jobs and hundreds of thousands of residents during our peak, if we are at a renaissance I don't see why we can't jump start it here.

This isn't getting your feet wet, this is jumping into the deep end. Metros of different sizes have different capacities for what they are able to pull off. Yes, growth can happen quickly, but there is only so much a region like Cleveland can absorb at one time. The last time Cleveland's economy grew at a huge rate, the jobs that were created were low-skill and accessible to basically any able bodied person. The need for immense man power was met by a steady stream of immigrants who could fill jobs quickly. The situation here could not be more different.

Downtown Cincy also used to house many more workers than it does now, and infrastructure is arguably better now than it was in the 70s. The region, of course, has also changed immensely in that time. Sprawl has increased and the region is much less centralized than it used to be. The situation is even more dramatic in Cleveland. The impact of 50k new people in a quick period would definitely stretch the capacity limits of most midwestern cities. If the argument is that any city can grow and absorb huge numbers of employees, would that also mean that small cities like Des Moines would be in play? People will move anywhere for Amazon, right? So why not locate HQ2 in Reno or Little Rock? Face it, there is a certain "club" of top tier cities- think ones that could be taken seriously for an Olympic bid. Those are the cities competing for these jobs.

Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2114 on: September 13, 2017, 04:25:10 PM »
^ I think Cleveland can do it, our real estate prices would just get inflated, QUICKLY. But the infrastructure we have set up was all designed when Cleveland was a city of 600,000+
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Offline edale

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2115 on: September 13, 2017, 04:43:38 PM »
Hey, don't get me wrong. I would LOVE to see Amazon end up anywhere in Ohio. It would definitely be a game changer for any of our cities, and I do think it could also help push our state in a blue direction (can't stop thinking about that element of things given the mess we are in with Trump and the repubs). I'm just trying to be realistic in my assessment.

My bets: Detroit, Atlanta, Toronto. Wildcard: Philly.

Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2116 on: September 13, 2017, 05:18:37 PM »
Hey, don't get me wrong. I would LOVE to see Amazon end up anywhere in Ohio. It would definitely be a game changer for any of our cities, and I do think it could also help push our state in a blue direction (can't stop thinking about that element of things given the mess we are in with Trump and the repubs). I'm just trying to be realistic in my assessment.

My bets: Detroit, Atlanta, Toronto. Wildcard: Philly.

So what would you rather have the city do, not go after it? I don't understand all of this pessimism cloaked in "realism". What does the city have to lose? Go for it. All this negativity is blowing my mind. It's like the lottery, you can't win if you don't play.

Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2117 on: September 13, 2017, 05:19:50 PM »
The loser mentality that some have in this state just trips me out. Go for it with everything you got, and who knows what'll happen. We weren't supposed to get the RNC either

Online audidave

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2118 on: September 13, 2017, 05:35:32 PM »
I think what would also help this bid is if the city were even giving rudimentary interest in the skylift proposal.  That would certainly work well with what Amazon is seeking to find in a forward thinking city as the gondolas help to bridge the various sections of Cleveland. This project would surely be a go if Amazon were coming to town.

Offline edale

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2119 on: September 13, 2017, 05:37:20 PM »
Sure, of course go for it. Cincinnati submitted an Olympic bid for 2016 years back, even though I think anyone who wasn't wearing the hometown blinders knew the city didn't have a shot. Can't hurt to think big. I'm not a city official, and my opinion on the matter doesn't change a damn thing.

Ask yourself this, though. If Cleveland is such a great region for businesses to locate in, why have other businesses not been relocating to the city? Cincy got a new GE operations building (1,200 employees) which was the first major move to the area in a while (white collar jobs, not warehouse or fulfillment centers, of which there have been several). To go from a move of 1,200 new employees to 50,000 would be a huge leap. What is the newest big add to Cleveland? Not talking about expansion of existing businesses, but new to the region businesses.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 05:39:03 PM by edale »

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2120 on: September 13, 2017, 05:39:21 PM »
It's unlikely that we will win the Amazon HQ, but there is real value to using it as an excuse to sharpen our pitch, tell our story, and raise our regional profile.  We may get some other businesses to consider us even if we don't get Amazon.  And as an added bonus, maybe we get Amazon.

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2121 on: September 13, 2017, 06:24:25 PM »
Knock it off.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2122 on: September 13, 2017, 08:04:15 PM »
So, to show that it isn't a "Cleveland thing" about not wanting Amazon because we couldn't handle it, or for whatever reason.... I was talking to a friend of mine in Chicago who is pretty plugged into the city and state government, as well as to its business community. I asked him if he thought Chicago would win the Amazon HQ2. His response -- "I hope not." When I asked why, he said the winning city would lose more than it would gain. He expected that Bezos is pursuing a very public competition for HQ2 in order to get the most incentives/concessions, perhaps through a bidding war much like the bidding for Foxconn that SE Wisconsin "won." His advice? Spend the public money instead on public transit and small business loans and grants.
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Online down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2123 on: September 13, 2017, 08:40:24 PM »
the $3 billion to Foxconn could be divvied up as a $10,000 grant to 300,000 small businesses.  It must be the worst deal in the history of economic development.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2124 on: September 13, 2017, 08:53:00 PM »
My bets: Detroit, Atlanta, Toronto. Wildcard: Philly.

I like these odds.   Personally I'm rooting for Detroit. 
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Offline viscomi

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2125 on: September 13, 2017, 09:14:31 PM »
I would say Detroit doesn't have the transit to land the headquarters. 

Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2126 on: September 13, 2017, 09:54:18 PM »
So, to show that it isn't a "Cleveland thing" about not wanting Amazon because we couldn't handle it, or for whatever reason.... I was talking to a friend of mine in Chicago who is pretty plugged into the city and state government, as well as to its business community. I asked him if he thought Chicago would win the Amazon HQ2. His response -- "I hope not." When I asked why, he said the winning city would lose more than it would gain. He expected that Bezos is pursuing a very public competition for HQ2 in order to get the most incentives/concessions, perhaps through a bidding war much like the bidding for Foxconn that SE Wisconsin "won." His advice? Spend the public money instead on public transit and small business loans and grants.

That whole logic is absurd from your friend. I totally disagree with that. Having Amazon's second headquarters in a place like Cleveland would indisputably be more positive than negative and would be especially attractive in attracting and retaining other businesses. It would be like a shot of HGH to our business community. The cost-benefit analysis for Chicago may be different, but it would clearly be a net positive for us

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2127 on: September 13, 2017, 10:24:13 PM »
I would say Detroit doesn't have the transit to land the headquarters.

Agree. Not sure what besos stance is on car culture, but no city has it more than the motor city.  Even their urban areas have 4-6 lane streets in places. Gas guzzling cars r what that town is all about.  Amazon cool w that?

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2128 on: September 13, 2017, 10:56:06 PM »
That whole logic is absurd from your friend. I totally disagree with that. Having Amazon's second headquarters in a place like Cleveland would indisputably be more positive than negative and would be especially attractive in attracting and retaining other businesses. It would be like a shot of HGH to our business community. The cost-benefit analysis for Chicago may be different, but it would clearly be a net positive for us

But at what price? His point is that Amazon is apparently trying to start a bidding war for incentives by doing this so publicly. How much will the winner have to give up? Will it be worth it? What if taxpayers have to give $2 billion worth of incentives to get $2 billion worth of benefits in total over 20 years?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:03:48 PM by KJP »
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Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2129 on: September 14, 2017, 02:36:33 AM »
That whole logic is absurd from your friend. I totally disagree with that. Having Amazon's second headquarters in a place like Cleveland would indisputably be more positive than negative and would be especially attractive in attracting and retaining other businesses. It would be like a shot of HGH to our business community. The cost-benefit analysis for Chicago may be different, but it would clearly be a net positive for us

But at what price? His point is that Amazon is apparently trying to start a bidding war for incentives by doing this so publicly. How much will the winner have to give up? Will it be worth it? What if taxpayers have to give $2 billion worth of incentives to get $2 billion worth of benefits in total over 20 years?

All of those are what ifs and question marks. What's certain is roughly 50,000 more jobs created in the center city. And all the things that come with that. I don't think the city should go bankrupt to do it, but I think the city, county and state should offer the absolute largest package that we can afford

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2130 on: September 14, 2017, 08:21:56 AM »
All of those are what ifs and question marks. What's certain is roughly 50,000 more jobs created in the center city. And all the things that come with that. I don't think the city should go bankrupt to do it, but I think the city, county and state should offer the absolute largest package that we can afford

I certainly agree and if I didn't think it was worth pursuing I wouldn't have done my own little tiny contribution of creating a concept in the hopes that others might see it and stimulate some more ideas. So we'll see where this goes.

Anybody know how the meeting in Seattle yesterday went?
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Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2131 on: September 14, 2017, 08:35:16 AM »
Considering my typical 25-30 min commute from Parma Heights has been over an hour each day this week... maybe we can't handle 50,000 new residents lol
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Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2132 on: September 14, 2017, 09:34:07 AM »
I would say Detroit doesn't have the transit to land the headquarters. 

I've been thinking about this--if Bezos wants to move somewhere with a transit system, but also hire from a local talent pool, many places on the "list" fall short in terms of both transit, and people WILLING to use it.  Even much larger metros like Dallas and Philly fit into this category. 
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2133 on: September 14, 2017, 09:48:19 AM »
Philly will probably offer the area surrounding 30th Street Station. It's a development area already moving forward with a significant proposed square footage. It surrounds 30th Street Station which is the hub of the SEPTA regional rail system, is served by Market-Frankford subway, Darby/Malvern trolleys, Amtrak (1 hour by Acela from NYC, 1.5 hours to WDC), and of course lots of buses. It's next to the University of Pennsylvania. And there's plenty of restaurants, hotels, culture and history nearby. I think Philly can offer a strong proposal. The only downside is that it's not ready to go right now.




« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:52:25 AM by KJP »
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Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: Cleveland: General Business & Economic News
« Reply #2134 on: September 14, 2017, 10:39:01 AM »
So if transit is going to be a critical key, wouldn't a Cleveland proposal need to either be centered around the Tower City area (I think someone mentioned Post Office Plaza for starters) or Public Square? Would the Weston lots be too far? It's not that far of a walk but I don't know how close they want to be to rail

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