Author Topic: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities  (Read 80601 times)

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Offline ucgrady

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #315 on: February 16, 2016, 09:56:05 AM »
That seems like a waste of money. Why not just use Nippert for the regular smaller profile games, and when you play Texas, Oklahoma etc. use Paul Brown Stadium? I really feel like UC needs to use the sports infrastructure downtown more often and are hurting themselves by ignoring it (and yes I'm also talking about a fully renovated US bank arena). There is more room for parking and tailgating at the banks and its easier to access for everyone except those who already live around campus. Phase 1B of the streetcar could help alleviate the problem of getting students downtown as well and along with the new law school could really create a need to connect downtwon/uptown.

Offline ryanlammi

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #316 on: February 16, 2016, 10:00:32 AM »
The last thing I'd want is to play at PBS multiple times a year. That place has no character or energy. Nippert needs to be embraced. It's one of the oldest stadiums in football.
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Offline ucgrady

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #317 on: February 16, 2016, 10:13:49 AM »
I also love Nippert, which is why I don't want to further mess with it just in hopes of getting a Big 12 invitation. We should leverage Paul Brown to get into the Big 12, and if necessary we can look at adding to Nippert down the road when it is deemed necessary and realistic (and after a few years of making Power 5 conference money). Outside of WVU, Texas and Oklahoma I don't see the need to have a larger stadium, so is it worth it to further add onto Nippert for maybe 3 games per year? And that is if they would all play every team every year, unlike the other power conferences which rotate their schedules every year. If they add schools and add a championship game, you would probably get an east/west conference schedule so we might only see one (WVU) game per year in Paul Brown. And if you fill Paul Brown with rowdy college football fans of UC and WVU, the stadium WOULD have energy.

Offline thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #318 on: February 16, 2016, 10:37:09 AM »
I agree with @ucgrady, it just seems nuts right after Nippert has been renovated to turn around and build another renovation that would make Nippert redundant with Paul Brown Stadium.

That and the Bengals might leave anyway if the NFL expands to global cities like London Mexico City etc. And we'd be left with a big empty stadium.

That and football popularity might decline with concussion scandals and spotlight hogging referees.

That and MLS is starting to demand their own dedicated stadiums now correct?

That and another NCAA conference realignment might happen at the drop of a hat since greed for TV revenues knows no bounds.

Im a sports fan too, but would it be ok if Cincinnati bucked the trends jumped off this crazy sports merry go round for a second?

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #319 on: February 16, 2016, 10:50:53 AM »
I'd LOVE it if we all just stopped investing so much money in sports. Sports are a form of entertainment and shouldn't become a financial burden for a city/county/school/etc.

Let the Bengals leave. Tear the stadium down and expand The Banks which will be a longterm asset instead of a longterm burden.

Nippert is fine the way it is. Continuously expanding it for a handful of moments each year isn't necessarily an intelligent use of money. Invest it in other sporting facilities that can benefit students more directly.

Offline thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #320 on: February 16, 2016, 10:56:10 AM »
^I don't think tearing down PBS would ever be a wise move even if the Bengals leave. It would still be a huge asset trying to attract large conventions, events, etc. As much mixed-use new urbanism development as you could fit in the stadium's footprint couldn't replace the amount we've already invested into the stadium.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 11:01:07 AM by thebillshark »

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #321 on: February 16, 2016, 11:15:02 AM »
How often is PBS used for non-football gatherings that can't fit elsewhere? When is the last time an event that happened here actually hinged on whether or not PBS was available? What events here other than Bengals games have ever had an audience large enough to fill PBS?

If something is losing you money and it were to theoretically no longer be needed for its intended purpose, does keeping and maintaining it really make sense when you could replace it with something that would at the very least bring money in instead of only sending money outward like the county currently does for the stadium.

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #322 on: February 16, 2016, 11:21:55 AM »
PBS is rarely used for non-game events but that might be due to terms that allow the Bengals to dictate much of that schedule.
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Offline Ram23

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #323 on: February 16, 2016, 11:22:52 AM »
If the Bengals left and PBS were torn down, the county would potentially be in a situation where they were still paying off a building after it had been demolished. I think the debt service would dwarf whatever maintenance costs would be for a stadium that would be essentially mothballed except for ~20 concerts or events a year.

As for Nippert, If UC got invited into the Big 12, I would support another expansion, but only after a few years of increased revenues and consistent sellouts. Under no circumstances should UC ever play league games at Paul Brown Stadium. Texas and Oklahoma should have to play UC at Nippert like everyone else. They already play Baylor and TCU at stadiums that seat just 45,000 – only 5,000 more seats than Nippert. There’s also a much higher potential for UT and OU fans to go to those stadiums as the fan base overlaps in those locations – there aren’t a whole lot of UT and OU fans in Cincinnati. I don’t think the capacity is as big a problem as many make it out to be, and now that Nippert has modern amenities and a modern press box, capacity is the only benefit PBS has over it.

Offline ryanlammi

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #324 on: February 16, 2016, 11:31:47 AM »
Urbanist idealism aside, PBS isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Nippert will never leave the university. Talk of PBS being demolished isn't relevant to this discussion. Let's just stop.

If adding another level on the east side of Nippert gets us into the Big 12, I would be happy for them to do this. I don't want the view of Lindner Center or Dieterle Vocal Arts building to be obstructed. Both of those are no-go's in my opinion.

I also don't think the attendance of a college sports stadium should really be all that important in attracting players or fans. Hopefully UC can avoid increasing capacity and still make it into the Big 12. I agree that American football is likely at its peak right now in popularity, so I wouldn't want UC to spend too much on an additional expansion. But I would be fine if they spent some money expanding it to reach the Big 12. I'm actually shocked how cheap the renovation of Nippert was (80 something million).

As for MLS, they don't really know what they want. They claim they want all MLS-specific stadiums, but their actions haven't always reflected that (Seattle Sounders, NYCFC's temporary home, DC United [though they are now building a new one], Portland Timbers). With enough money, an MLS team could probably convince MLS to let them use a different stadium.
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Offline Rabbit Hash

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #325 on: February 16, 2016, 02:05:39 PM »
The stadium has served as a concert venue only once, on August 3, 1975 hosting The Ohio River Rock Festival (Aerosmith, Black Oak Arkansas, Blue Öyster Cult, Foghat, Mahogany Rush, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, REO Speedwagon, and Styx; admission was festival seating/general admission, attendance 32,000 est. according to local radio broadcasts).

Betcha whole lotta weed got smoked at this one. FWIW I saw John Cougar and maybe The Kinks at the Armory Fieldhouse, 80-81?

Nippert would be an excellent concert venue.

^Wiki. That festival was hosted there and created consternation afterward due to behavior. But it was far from the only concert ever held there. Several concerts were held there throughout the 1960s and 1970s.  CSO had summer series there in the 60s.  Edgar Winter Group (and Frampton's Camel) had the gates crashed in July 1973. Grand Funk Railroad a week later in 1973...which also had riotous behavior.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #326 on: February 16, 2016, 02:27:35 PM »
If the Bengals left and PBS were torn down, the county would potentially be in a situation where they were still paying off a building after it had been demolished. I think the debt service would dwarf whatever maintenance costs would be for a stadium that would be essentially mothballed except for ~20 concerts or events a year.

As for Nippert, If UC got invited into the Big 12, I would support another expansion, but only after a few years of increased revenues and consistent sellouts. Under no circumstances should UC ever play league games at Paul Brown Stadium. Texas and Oklahoma should have to play UC at Nippert like everyone else. They already play Baylor and TCU at stadiums that seat just 45,000 – only 5,000 more seats than Nippert. There’s also a much higher potential for UT and OU fans to go to those stadiums as the fan base overlaps in those locations – there aren’t a whole lot of UT and OU fans in Cincinnati. I don’t think the capacity is as big a problem as many make it out to be, and now that Nippert has modern amenities and a modern press box, capacity is the only benefit PBS has over it.


Publicly owned sports stadiums are often demolished before they are paid off.  Riverfront Stadium was financed with 40-year bonds but was torn down in year 32.  The new sales tax swiftly paid off the old bonds.  Paul Brown and Great American were financed with 30-year bonds.  As there were various issues during their respective construction periods, I assume that the last GABP bonds are probably scheduled to mature in 2033.  The half-cent sales tax is not required by law to sunset after those bonds are paid off, but I assume that the public will demand its expiration at that time.  We can then have a public debate re: levying a replacement tax (perhaps less than 1/2 cent) that might fund their maintenance and new county projects. 


Offline greatgooglymoogly

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #327 on: February 16, 2016, 02:39:18 PM »
That and the Bengals might leave anyway if the NFL expands to global cities like London Mexico City etc. And we'd be left with a big empty stadium.

If the NFL expands globally, all signs indicate it would do just that - expand.  The NFL would never remove American football from highly profitable American media markets en masse.

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #328 on: February 16, 2016, 02:45:40 PM »
There's always the chance that soccer could continue to gain strength in the U.S. and Paul Brown could eventually host FC Cincinnati if the Bengals move elsewhere.
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Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #329 on: February 16, 2016, 03:53:03 PM »
I don't know why all of these people are assuming that the NFL will expand to Europe and that The Bengals are somehow on the short list of probable exports.  The logistics of expanding to Europe are formidable, with an entire division (not just 1 or 2 teams) needing to move to make it really make sense.  There would have to be 4-5 teams in Europe that could play each other twice per year in order to cut down on travel problems.  But even then, none of them can do a live Monday night game, and the logistics of wild card week would be totally nuts.

Again, The Bengals are in a totally different situation than most NFL teams because the majority owner owns 99.9% of the shares.  Mike Brown bought out the last minority shareholder of any significance in 2011 for something like $150 million in cash.  There is no possibility for a minority shareholder rebellion of the sort that took down Art Modell.  Further, the Bengals have been owned by the same family longer than any other NFL team.  It's unlikely that Brown's daughter will give a damn about making more money than they already have pouring in every year.  Why sell to someone who would move the team?  If Mike Brown really wanted to drown in cash, he could sell the team right now.  Obviously that's not what motivates him. 

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #330 on: February 16, 2016, 03:56:16 PM »
Doesn't UC football still draw relatively paltry numbers? I seem to remember seeing tons and tons of open seats on the handful of games I checked out on TV in years past. With virtually no football history to bank on (no golden years ala Pitt or Miami), and a current program that has stagnated or declined, I just don't see the market for UC football growing, even if they get added to he Big 12. UC needs to focus on building better academic facilities and student housing rather than more athletic facilities, IMO.

Offline ryanlammi

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #331 on: February 16, 2016, 04:02:22 PM »
Doesn't UC football still draw relatively paltry numbers? I seem to remember seeing tons and tons of open seats on the handful of games I checked out on TV in years past. With virtually no football history to bank on (no golden years ala Pitt or Miami), and a current program that has stagnated or declined, I just don't see the market for UC football growing, even if they get added to he Big 12. UC needs to focus on building better academic facilities and student housing rather than more athletic facilities, IMO.

Right now, the football program is fairly heavily subsidized. If UC could get into the Big 12, a lot more TV revenue would come their way. Obviously they would increase total spending after that to get better recruits and more attendance, but it wouldn't increase by $20 million annually (what UC will see if they make it to the Big 12). This would give them much more money going directly into football so that they can spend less other revenue on football and add it to academics, dorms, etc.

I think UC's football program would jump in attendance the minute they get into the Big 12. This past year was a bad year for looking into the stand because, on top of underperforming, almost every home game was really cold or pouring rain. Attendance has been declining since the peak of 2010-ish when they almost made it to the National Championship Game. Not sure how much attendance declined, but it did better with the renovation this year.

EDIT: According to wikipedia, attendance peaked in 2010 (the year after we almost went to the NCG) and went up this year from last despite our poor performance.

2006: 30,373
2007: 30,246
2008: 31,965
2009: 33,957
2010: 35,064
2011: 32,293
2012: 29,138
2013: 31,770
2014: 28,719
2015: 31,770
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 04:06:52 PM by ryanlammi »
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Offline CincyIntheKnow

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #332 on: February 16, 2016, 04:05:49 PM »
Doesn't UC football still draw relatively paltry numbers? I seem to remember seeing tons and tons of open seats on the handful of games I checked out on TV in years past. With virtually no football history to bank on (no golden years ala Pitt or Miami), and a current program that has stagnated or declined, I just don't see the market for UC football growing, even if they get added to he Big 12. UC needs to focus on building better academic facilities and student housing rather than more athletic facilities, IMO.

They just had their highest attendance average ever, last year.  So, no.

Edit: Per this site http://cincyontheprowl.com/2015/11/17/build-will-come-uc-sets-program-attendance-record/ the attendance record for 2015 that was just set was 37,096, don't know about Ryan's numbers.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 04:14:41 PM by CincyIntheKnow »

Offline tonyt3524

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #333 on: February 16, 2016, 04:11:26 PM »
UC Football this past season averaged just over 37,000 per game in Nippert despite their record.

Offline ryanlammi

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #334 on: February 16, 2016, 04:16:59 PM »
I wonder where wiki got their data
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Offline ryanlammi

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #335 on: February 16, 2016, 04:21:17 PM »
Their attendance numbers are accurate if you click on the 2015 season page, but not the overall football program's page. Weird. 37,096 average according to the season's page. Checks out. I edited the wiki page to reflect the correct number
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 04:23:34 PM by ryanlammi »
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Offline The_Cincinnati_Kid

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #336 on: May 16, 2016, 07:23:39 AM »
UC signs $70M contract for Fifth Third Arena renovation
May 16, 2016, 7:18am EDT
Erin Caproni
Digital Producer
Cincinnati Business Courier



The University of Cincinnati has signed a developer for the renovation of its on-campus arena.

Skanska USA and Megen Construction have signed a $70 million contract to renovate Fifth Third Arena.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/05/16/uc-signs-70m-contract-for-fifth-third-arena.html
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Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #337 on: May 19, 2016, 12:00:17 PM »
UC just released a hype video for the renovated Fifth Third Arena:
https://vimeo.com/167014829

Here's a screencap showing what looks like the latest rendering of the main (east) entrance:


Offline The_Cincinnati_Kid

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #338 on: February 08, 2017, 02:54:41 PM »
UC making another big change at Nippert Stadium
Feb 8, 2017, 12:20pm EST
Steve Watkins
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Cincinnati Business Courier


The University of Cincinnati is making another investment in recently renovated Nippert Stadium to replace its outdated scoreboard.

UC will spend between $4 million and $6 million to install a new video board system this year in time for the football season that kicks off Aug. 31, athletic director Mike Bohn told me.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/02/08/uc-making-another-big-change-at-nippert-stadium.html
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Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #339 on: February 08, 2017, 03:12:31 PM »
^I'm glad to hear that an updated sound system is also part of the upgrades. The current sound system at Nippert is really inadequate for a stadium of that size. I'm not a sound engineer, but it seems like a distributed network of smaller speakers would be much better than the current set up where all of the speakers are clustered behind the score board.

Offline TheHemroid

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #340 on: February 08, 2017, 04:03:12 PM »
It sounded so much better calling it the Shoemaker Center or "The Shoe" for short.  It sounded more sports oriented and cool.  Fifth Third Arena sounds like it plays off people who failed math class.

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #341 on: February 08, 2017, 04:10:45 PM »
It says a lot that all of the exterior imagery in that video was of Downtown Cincinnati, and it featured no footage of Uptown or even UC's campus.
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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #342 on: February 16, 2017, 04:17:46 PM »
UC picks temporary basketball home for Fifth Third Arena renovation

Quote
Parking is another advantage. BB&T Arena has large parking decks right next to the facility. U.S. Bank Arena has an attached parking garage, but its downtown location would have meant most fans would need to park at any of several lots and garages within a radius of the arena.

Man, if only there was some way we could link US Bank Arena to UC's campus with a transit system that could carry large numbers of people...
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Offline hoerstw

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #343 on: February 16, 2017, 04:53:22 PM »
UC picks temporary basketball home for Fifth Third Arena renovation

Quote
Parking is another advantage. BB&T Arena has large parking decks right next to the facility. U.S. Bank Arena has an attached parking garage, but its downtown location would have meant most fans would need to park at any of several lots and garages within a radius of the arena.

Man, if only there was some way we could link US Bank Arena to UC's campus with a transit system that could carry large numbers of people...

For the article to suggest that parking is a challenge at USB is a stretch. It is located next to the Banks garage and numerous surface lots to the east.

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #344 on: February 16, 2017, 04:54:13 PM »
It sounded so much better calling it the Shoemaker Center or "The Shoe" for short.  It sounded more sports oriented and cool.  Fifth Third Arena sounds like it plays off people who failed math class.

The name "The Shoe" for an athletic venue was already taken a long time before 5/3 was built.

Offline nicker66

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #345 on: February 17, 2017, 10:10:20 AM »
You can ignore everything except this as to why they are playing at NKU next year:

"Harris said U.S. Bank’s ask was “minimal.’’ Bohn said NKU’s ask was far less."
Source:  http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/paul-daugherty/2017/02/14/doc-can-you-blame-uc-saying-no-us-bank-arena/97916982/

A very capable arena that will maximize profit for UC.  Seems like a no-brainer for a temporary season.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 10:10:38 AM by nicker66 »

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Uptown: UC Athletic Facilities
« Reply #346 on: February 17, 2017, 10:17:25 AM »
With Bevin's cuts to Kentucky's higher ed, NKU might have been willing to rent the place for super-cheap just to get some unexpected money coming in. 

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