Author Topic: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings  (Read 19788 times)

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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #450 on: March 21, 2017, 10:21:38 PM »
Seems unlikely. If they want to build a new downtown tower, why not go to nuCLEus, or the Weston warehouse district parking lots, or one of the other prime surface parking lots (like the E. 9th lot next to Progressive Field).  Why knock down buildings?  Why forgo the opportunity to be on a corner?

Better yet, why forego the opportunity for one of Cleveland's largest and oldest corporate citizens to tower over Public Square on the Jacobs lot? I'm sure Jacobs would be happy to construct for it a stunning architectural statement about S-W's next 150 years and assume the debt from this venture.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #451 on: March 22, 2017, 11:51:33 AM »
Seems unlikely. If they want to build a new downtown tower, why not go to nuCLEus, or the Weston warehouse district parking lots, or one of the other prime surface parking lots (like the E. 9th lot next to Progressive Field).  Why knock down buildings?  Why forgo the opportunity to be on a corner?

Better yet, why forego the opportunity for one of Cleveland's largest and oldest corporate citizens to tower over Public Square on the Jacobs lot? I'm sure Jacobs would be happy to construct for it a stunning architectural statement about S-W's next 150 years and assume the debt from this venture.

That certainly seems to be the most logical spot, no argument from me there.

Additionally, if SW continues to grow, the will likely need rental space in a new, different building. As a consequence of their own success, I think SW will be forced to confront this relocation by 2020 at the latest.

Just a random, quasi-irrelevant thought, does anyone know if the office footprint of these buildings is greater than the Rose Building --- ala MedMu

Offline StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #452 on: March 22, 2017, 12:09:47 PM »
Seems unlikely. If they want to build a new downtown tower, why not go to nuCLEus, or the Weston warehouse district parking lots, or one of the other prime surface parking lots (like the E. 9th lot next to Progressive Field).  Why knock down buildings?  Why forgo the opportunity to be on a corner?

And even if you are OK knocking down buildings (which really isn't all that hard or expensive), why build a tower that would face 20 stories of mostly blank wall on two sides? I agree this is a very unlikely site for a new office tower.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #453 on: March 22, 2017, 12:14:36 PM »
Just a random, quasi-irrelevant thought, does anyone know if the office footprint of these buildings is greater than the Rose Building --- ala MedMu

I responded at the Cleveland office development thread:
https://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4266.msg845709.html#msg845709
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Offline zbaris87

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #454 on: April 12, 2017, 03:22:42 PM »
CLEVELAND, Ohio - The troubled John Hartness Brown complex in downtown Cleveland could change hands in late April, thanks to an appeals court decision issued last week.

On Thursday, the Eighth District Court of Appeals upheld a lower court's 2016 decision to green-light the sale of the empty Euclid Avenue buildings, which were earmarked years ago as the potential site of a Le Meridien hotel. The buyer, Alto Partners, has offered $9.1 million for the property, which is in foreclosure and controlled by a court-appointed receiver.

More at:
http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/04/court_ruling_paves_way_for_sal.html
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 08:41:03 PM by MayDay »

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #455 on: April 12, 2017, 04:12:56 PM »
This is exciting! Happy the litigation seems to be reaching a logical end.

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #456 on: June 23, 2017, 12:13:02 AM »
Anyone know if the JHB litigation is wrapped up?
I thought it was close to an end in April.


Offline Old AmrapinVA

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #458 on: August 15, 2017, 08:25:49 PM »
I'm very curious about how these buildings will turn out. Alto is based in Istanbul and they some rather interesting designs from their projects in Kazakhstan. Preserving these buildings is definitely something new for this company. Hopefully they treat this with care.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #459 on: August 15, 2017, 08:27:30 PM »
Good news. Alto has a track record of developing in difficult markets, including in Iraq of all places. Alto was the developer who said it wants to develop a million square feet of offices in Cleveland, presumably for back-office functions relocating from expensive coastal markets.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline bumsquare

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #460 on: August 15, 2017, 10:51:43 PM »
Have to disagree with @mjarboe. The purchase was more Ottoman than Byzantine.


Offline Dougal

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #462 on: August 16, 2017, 01:09:35 AM »
I'm very curious about how these buildings will turn out.

Me, too. In the rendering (not to be trusted, I realize) a lot of period detail seems to be left out.
There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #463 on: August 16, 2017, 09:23:28 AM »
I'll be blunt. The rendering is atrocious. But beggars can't be choosers at this point lol.

I'm usually in the camp of preserving historical buildings... but I wouldn't hate a complete tear-down.

Offline StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #464 on: August 16, 2017, 09:41:03 AM »
I'd be surprised if the project is viable without the credits, so can't say I'm all that worried about the renderings.

Offline AJ93

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #465 on: August 16, 2017, 10:20:57 AM »
Have to disagree with @mjarboe. The purchase was more Ottoman than Byzantine.

I chuckled appreciatively

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #466 on: December 07, 2017, 01:21:09 PM »
Nice article about the progress being made on the CAC Building:

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/CleAthleticClub120717.aspx

Really shows what kind of shape the building was in and why it has taken so long to get to where were at today.  This is going to fill in a very significant patch of Euclid.  Now just waiting on JHB Building and 925 and we've got a complete street!

I honestly think we say JHB demolished in the next 2-3 years.

For what? Or because of neglect?
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline McLovin

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #467 on: December 21, 2017, 02:16:44 PM »
Well my how things have changed.....

John Hartness Brown makeover in downtown Cleveland will be housing, not a hotel (photos)

CLEVELAND, Ohio - What's old is new again at the long-suffering John Hartness Brown complex in downtown Cleveland, where the property's new owner has returned to the original vision for redevelopment: Housing, not a hotel.

Alto Partners no longer plans to include a 140-room, limited-service hotel in a revival of the buildings, a series of empty facades at 1001-1101 Euclid Ave. That blighted expanse of real estate now is earmarked for 228 apartments, with 20,000 square feet of retail along the street and 230 parking spaces tucked inside. Alto recently amended its plans in a filing with the state.

In an email, Alto executive Michael Sabracos confirmed the change in scope. Lenders, he wrote, weren't nearly as enthusiastic about a hotel as they were about apartments.

"Given the history of this project, we wanted to take a path that provided us with the upmost success," wrote Sabracos, chief executive officer for Alto's U.S. operations. "Since our decision, we have secured the financing to move forward with the project ... and look forward to bringing the building back to life."




http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/12/john_hartness_brown_makeover_i.html#incart_river_home


Offline buckeye1

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #468 on: December 21, 2017, 02:27:49 PM »

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #469 on: December 21, 2017, 03:06:37 PM »
Well my how things have changed.....

John Hartness Brown makeover in downtown Cleveland will be housing, not a hotel (photos)

CLEVELAND, Ohio - What's old is new again at the long-suffering John Hartness Brown complex in downtown Cleveland, where the property's new owner has returned to the original vision for redevelopment: Housing, not a hotel.

Alto Partners no longer plans to include a 140-room, limited-service hotel in a revival of the buildings, a series of empty facades at 1001-1101 Euclid Ave. That blighted expanse of real estate now is earmarked for 228 apartments, with 20,000 square feet of retail along the street and 230 parking spaces tucked inside. Alto recently amended its plans in a filing with the state.

In an email, Alto executive Michael Sabracos confirmed the change in scope. Lenders, he wrote, weren't nearly as enthusiastic about a hotel as they were about apartments.

"Given the history of this project, we wanted to take a path that provided us with the upmost success," wrote Sabracos, chief executive officer for Alto's U.S. operations. "Since our decision, we have secured the financing to move forward with the project ... and look forward to bringing the building back to life."




http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/12/john_hartness_brown_makeover_i.html#incart_river_home



MAKE IT CONDOS FOR THE LOVE  OF GOD

Offline wjh2

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #470 on: December 21, 2017, 03:14:32 PM »
As much as I wish it weren't the case, Banks are extremely apprehensive about financing condos anywhere outside of tier 1 markets.

Offline Dougal

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #471 on: December 21, 2017, 03:29:43 PM »
I like the latest rendering. It preserves the distinctiveness of the five facades better than the previous effort.
There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

Offline ink

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #472 on: December 21, 2017, 03:34:51 PM »
As much as I wish it weren't the case, Banks are extremely apprehensive about financing condos anywhere outside of tier 1 markets.

And condos cannot be constructed using historic tax credits, which is a major source of funding in this project.

Offline Oldmanladyluck

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #473 on: December 21, 2017, 03:36:43 PM »
^I believe after a certain amount of time they can be converted, after 5 or so years if memory serves.

Offline Pugu

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #474 on: December 21, 2017, 04:06:02 PM »
^Usually condos are built a little better than rental units--condos have better sound proofing, thicker walls, etc.  So I hope the developer builds with this vision in mind---condos after 5 years.....

Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #475 on: December 23, 2017, 12:13:29 AM »
Regardless if its condos or not, THIS IS GREAT NEWS!

Always good to rebuild our population base!

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #476 on: January 08, 2018, 01:51:20 PM »
I like the latest rendering. It preserves the distinctiveness of the five facades better than the previous effort.
Agreed.  There is so much new construction where they try to mimic having different facades, so its nice when you have the real thing to work with

Offline StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #477 on: January 08, 2018, 01:55:50 PM »
^The irony! You'll recall that the "historic" facades being restored were themselves installed post-construction to make a single building look like multiple buildings.

Offline lafont

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #478 on: January 09, 2018, 06:47:05 PM »
If you are saying these five buildings were originally all one, I donít think thatís the case at all..

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: John Hartness Brown Buildings
« Reply #479 on: January 10, 2018, 02:06:05 AM »
https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/815

I'm not sure how many different buildings are a part of John Hartness Brown, but it's neither 1 nor 5.  In fact, this "complex" has a really interesting history.  Even at it's inception it was mired in financial difficulties and sat half completed as an eyesore while the neighborhood around it developed.  So it has come full circle, at least.