Author Topic: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium  (Read 105106 times)

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Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1500 on: August 30, 2018, 09:12:21 PM »
I believe they have said they want to create a mixed use destination type area around the stadium, but i fear that it will be garages and a stadium and all else an after thought. Hope i am wrong though.

I'm worried that this is going to end up looking like a casino. 

Maybe we will get a 'Unique' garage like The Bucks did next to their new stadium. All the cool urban arenas have one. Why drink in the neighborhood bars when you can pay to party nextdoor to the stadium (and your car) on the top level "Tailgate ZONE tm"!


 Blech! https://fox6now.com/2017/10/31/pretty-unique-parking-garage-near-new-bucks-arena-could-someday-feature-top-level-tailgating/

Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1501 on: August 31, 2018, 10:46:19 AM »
I still don't understand why the ballet building can't be in Queensgate or West End. Same with WVXU.

I also hope the stadium development fronts Liberty well.
I get that the Ballet wants their facility to be close to the Aronoff and Music Hall (since that's where they perform). It's also important for image/prestige to be in a high visibility location, and near the other performing arts groups. My ideal would be if they could team up with a developer to do a mixed-use project at the CMHA site on Central Parkway.

Offline thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1502 on: August 31, 2018, 10:52:33 AM »
I still don't understand why the ballet building can't be in Queensgate or West End. Same with WVXU.

I also hope the stadium development fronts Liberty well.
I get that the Ballet wants their facility to be close to the Aronoff and Music Hall (since that's where they perform). It's also important for image/prestige to be in a high visibility location, and near the other performing arts groups. My ideal would be if they could team up with a developer to do a mixed-use project at the CMHA site on Central Parkway.

That would be a great location for it @jwulsin. Good idea!

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1503 on: August 31, 2018, 10:56:53 AM »
Yeah they and the salvation army are really wasting some prime real estate on Central Pkwy with their 1-2 story buildings and surface parking lots. 

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1504 on: September 13, 2018, 03:33:15 PM »
Both condos at 418 Wade, after having sat on the market for six months, are suddenly under contract, along with the multifamily across the street, 423 Wade. 

So fire up the bulldozers and let's get this strip of historic buildings turned into a parking lot ASAP:
https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1574139/418-Wade-St-1-Cincinnati-OH-45214

Offline breakground

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1505 on: September 13, 2018, 03:44:40 PM »
Are those places occupied?

Both condos at 418 Wade, after having sat on the market for six months, are suddenly under contract, along with the multifamily across the street, 423 Wade. 


Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1506 on: September 13, 2018, 03:52:14 PM »
No, they were finished and put on the market in March or April.  There has been a price reduction on each.  So they and the rest of the project was vulnerable to someone coming from the outside and buying them both for a discount plus the other buildings that were planned to be redeveloped.  The only good sign is that it says they're under contract rather than them being completely removed from MLS, which would be a more odious development. 

I hope I'm wrong and someone is simply buying these two condos to airbnb them or something like that.  It's really going to suck if the Wade St. buildings are torn down because otherwise there is going to be nothing historic left around the stadium. 

Offline breakground

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1507 on: September 13, 2018, 03:54:08 PM »
Thx. What about the multifamily - same deal?

Offline wjh2

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1508 on: September 13, 2018, 03:58:53 PM »
I have a feeling these buildings are goners, hope im wrong. I wish they could at least somehow incorporate the facades of the buildings into whatever the plan is so it still has some character and not big blank walls everywhere. Overall - i am glad they are investing in the core but need to do it with a sense of place in mind, which i am not hopeful for.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1509 on: September 13, 2018, 04:20:25 PM »
I hope I'm wrong and someone is simply buying these two condos to airbnb them or something like that.

That crossed my mind as well. Assuming that units weren't bought by FCC with the intention of tearing down the building, I would guess that the buyer wants to rent them out as AirBNBs. Because living across the street from a stadium doesn't sound very pleasant to me.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1510 on: September 13, 2018, 04:31:10 PM »
^What's weird is that the two condos only occupy floors 1 & 2.  The third floor was not renovated or is simply empty.  No doubt it was the plan of the developer to build a third condo in that space after the first two sold, and then roll the profits into doing the other buildings.  So if someone really is buying the two units to rent them, does the third one get built?  Or is that guy going to try to buy the building outright?


Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1511 on: September 13, 2018, 05:52:53 PM »
Reading this thread makes me depressed. Just so much speculation and unfounded negativity.

We donít know what fcc is planning, but there is nothing but conspiracy theories about what they might do. I say letís hold off and be patient and be optimistic and hope for the best.

Regardless of what happens, Iím glad that fcc is in the West End rather than say Newport or Oakley. Iím sure it will benefit the area to some extent...itís just so dooms day here without any actual evidence to discuss.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1512 on: September 13, 2018, 05:56:48 PM »
We don’t know what fcc is planning, but there is nothing but conspiracy theories about what they might do.

They have received a huge amount of public money.  We still don't have a site plan, 6 months after they announced the location.  You'd think that in exchange for tens of millions of public dollars that we could have negotiated to have them flip all of their cards up.  Instead, they're still engaging in shadowy real estate machinations. 

Offline thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1513 on: September 13, 2018, 06:03:25 PM »
Reading this thread makes me depressed. Just so much speculation and unfounded negativity.

We donít know what fcc is planning, but there is nothing but conspiracy theories about what they might do. I say letís hold off and be patient and be optimistic and hope for the best.

Regardless of what happens, Iím glad that fcc is in the West End rather than say Newport or Oakley. Iím sure it will benefit the area to some extent...itís just so dooms day here without any actual evidence to discuss.

If they end up leveling everything in sight I do wish they would have gone to Oakley

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1514 on: September 13, 2018, 07:06:08 PM »
Reading this thread makes me depressed. Just so much speculation and unfounded negativity.

We donít know what fcc is planning, but there is nothing but conspiracy theories about what they might do. I say letís hold off and be patient and be optimistic and hope for the best.

Regardless of what happens, Iím glad that fcc is in the West End rather than say Newport or Oakley. Iím sure it will benefit the area to some extent...itís just so dooms day here without any actual evidence to discuss.

If they end up leveling everything in sight I do wish they would have gone to Oakley

So essentially what was already occurring in the West End due to decades of neglect and lack of investment? The only narrative that would change if fcc chose Oakley is that these old historic buildings wouldíve been razed due to emergency demo.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 07:08:22 PM by troeros »

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1515 on: September 13, 2018, 08:23:25 PM »
Reading this thread makes me depressed. Just so much speculation and unfounded negativity.

We donít know what fcc is planning, but there is nothing but conspiracy theories about what they might do. I say letís hold off and be patient and be optimistic and hope for the best.

Regardless of what happens, Iím glad that fcc is in the West End rather than say Newport or Oakley. Iím sure it will benefit the area to some extent...itís just so dooms day here without any actual evidence to discuss.

If they end up leveling everything in sight I do wish they would have gone to Oakley
There's barely anything in the area of the stadium to level. 

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1516 on: September 13, 2018, 08:50:18 PM »
Reading this thread makes me depressed. Just so much speculation and unfounded negativity.

We donít know what fcc is planning, but there is nothing but conspiracy theories about what they might do. I say letís hold off and be patient and be optimistic and hope for the best.

Regardless of what happens, Iím glad that fcc is in the West End rather than say Newport or Oakley. Iím sure it will benefit the area to some extent...itís just so dooms day here without any actual evidence to discuss.



If they end up leveling everything in sight I do wish they would have gone to Oakley
There's barely anything in the area of the stadium to level.

Right. Some are acting like fcc is plopping the stadium right in the smack of Pendleton and destroying every historic structure in a 1 mile radius.

That stretch of West End was wiped away from its historic stock decades ago.

Offline RJohnson

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1517 on: September 13, 2018, 08:58:23 PM »
The FC Cincinnati is building a brand new stadium in town. Our city has three major league teams now. This enhances the market for people moving to the area, becoming Cincinnatians, and doing what people do. This babble about historic buildings is silly. If you wanted to keep the damnable buildings you should have bought them. Then hired a few old ladies to do historic building tours and speak like they were from the old country. I bet the tourists from Europe and Asia would flock to see a guided tour of an "OTR near" home built in 1855. i can hardly wait to be the first in line. Dick's has a sale on tents this week. Come, join me.

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1518 on: September 13, 2018, 09:04:40 PM »
That stretch of West End was wiped away from its historic stock decades ago.

So we should be even more vigilant about saving what's left.  No need to just scrape everything clean if it's not really necessary. 

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1519 on: September 13, 2018, 09:18:03 PM »
That stretch of West End was wiped away from its historic stock decades ago.

So we should be even more vigilant about saving what's left.  No need to just scrape everything clean if it's not really necessary.

Agree to disagree.

I find otr appealing because of its cohesiveness. It feels like entering a mini Europe with historic buildings every which way you look.

The buildings in the West End are literally islands, surrounded by parking lots, empty grassy lots filled with broken liquor bottles, and new structure like the cps school, Stargell stadium, the police station etc.

Again, I would fight tooth and nail against this stadium if it meant sacrificing the likes of otr/Pendleton even stretches of the old West End. But we are fighting for is a few historic gems surrounded by an oasis of trash.

Also, When the fcc stadium is built it will be the equivalent to Crosley Field in that 100 years, no matter how it looks it will be deemed historic and something that future generations will try to preserve.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1520 on: September 13, 2018, 09:20:28 PM »
The FC Cincinnati is building a brand new stadium in town. Our city has three major league teams now.

MLS is a "major league" in name only.  It is a very distant #5 behind the NHL.  The NFL is 14x bigger than soccer.  Far more Americans (8 million) view a typical regular season Bengals game on TV than the average World Cup game (less than 2 million).   
http://fortune.com/2018/06/22/world-cup-us-ratings-fox-telemundo/

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1521 on: September 13, 2018, 09:22:44 PM »
The buildings in the West End are literally islands, surrounded by parking lots,

Yeah, infill isn't possible in the West End because...why?  Wade/Bauer is the exact same situation as any number of OTR blocks.  Same with Poplar, Oliver, York, etc. north of Liberty. 

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1522 on: September 13, 2018, 09:34:26 PM »
Except Crosley Field WASN'T preserved, nor the neighborhood that surrounds it.  In its place we have a major interstate highway and a low-density industrial park.  We lost out on our own Wrigleyville.  No new stadiums have spawned that sort of development, neither will this one.  The likelihood that this new stadium will be revered is remote, but I would love to be proven wrong because of great design and placemaking, the sorts of things that make people care about a building.  I don't have high hopes for that though. 

It's not the fault of the remaining buildings that their surroundings have been denuded, and it doesn't make them less deserving of care.  That's why I said they shouldn't be demolished "just because" and there should at least be an attempt to keep what they can.  If something just won't work, ok, but at least make the effort.  This "just tear it all down" mindset is why the scraps of the West End we have are all you'll find left in most cities.  That OTR remains so intact is a miracle, because it happened despite this attitude.  That doesn't make other neighborhoods less worthy. 

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1523 on: September 13, 2018, 09:38:10 PM »
The FC Cincinnati is building a brand new stadium in town. Our city has three major league teams now.

MLS is a "major league" in name only.  It is a very distant #5 behind the NHL.  The NFL is 14x bigger than soccer.  Far more Americans (8 million) view a typical regular season Bengals game on TV than the average World Cup game (less than 2 million).   
http://fortune.com/2018/06/22/world-cup-us-ratings-fox-telemundo/
Where was the MLS 10 years ago?  Where do you think it will be in 10 years?  No one is trying to compare it to the NFL but it is quickly gaining on the MLB and NHL which are not at all popular with millennials. 

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1524 on: September 13, 2018, 09:45:46 PM »
Except Crosley Field WASN'T preserved, nor the neighborhood that surrounds it.  In its place we have a major interstate highway and a low-density industrial park.  We lost out on our own Wrigleyville.  No new stadiums have spawned that sort of development, neither will this one.  The likelihood that this new stadium will be revered is remote, but I would love to be proven wrong because of great design and placemaking, the sorts of things that make people care about a building.  I don't have high hopes for that though. 

It's not the fault of the remaining buildings that their surroundings have been denuded, and it doesn't make them less deserving of care.  That's why I said they shouldn't be demolished "just because" and there should at least be an attempt to keep what they can.  If something just won't work, ok, but at least make the effort.  This "just tear it all down" mindset is why the scraps of the West End we have are all you'll find left in most cities.  That OTR remains so intact is a miracle, because it happened despite this attitude.  That doesn't make other neighborhoods less worthy.

My point was that the  fcc stadium will be deemed historic simply because of age and partially design. Historic is relative right? A structure that existed 100 years ago is historic to us, but to those who lived 100 years ago it was just another structure that reflected the times.

The future generation of Cincinnati will see the fcc stadium as historic because it will reflect Cincinnati and what it was 100 years ago. Same goes for suburban strip malls. The beauty of history is not necessarily the architecture, but rather the ability to see a glimpse of the past.

Itís all relative. We are the future, we are the past. We are time. Time is one.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1525 on: September 13, 2018, 11:09:17 PM »
Where was the MLS 10 years ago?  Where do you think it will be in 10 years?  No one is trying to compare it to the NFL but it is quickly gaining on the MLB and NHL which are not at all popular with millennials. 

U.S. TV ratings for the World Cup went down significantly in 2018 as compared to 2014.  MLS TV ratings have actually gone down in some categories over the past 10+ years, despite the expansion of the league.  For example, 2 million people watched the MLS finals in 2001 but only 800,000 in 2017.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_on_television#Ratings_and_viewers  MLS soccer is still dwarfed by wrestling, despite its downward trend since its peak 15-20 years ago.  If you compare growth of the NFL since the inception of MLS in 1996, the NFL has grown by much, much more. 

For my entire life I've been hearing what a big deal soccer is going to be.  It's still not.  It's still not even half as popular as wrestling.   

Online cincydave8

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1526 on: September 14, 2018, 07:54:10 AM »
Where was the MLS 10 years ago?  Where do you think it will be in 10 years?  No one is trying to compare it to the NFL but it is quickly gaining on the MLB and NHL which are not at all popular with millennials. 

U.S. TV ratings for the World Cup went down significantly in 2018 as compared to 2014.  MLS TV ratings have actually gone down in some categories over the past 10+ years, despite the expansion of the league.  For example, 2 million people watched the MLS finals in 2001 but only 800,000 in 2017.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_on_television#Ratings_and_viewers  MLS soccer is still dwarfed by wrestling, despite its downward trend since its peak 15-20 years ago.  If you compare growth of the NFL since the inception of MLS in 1996, the NFL has grown by much, much more. 

For my entire life I've been hearing what a big deal soccer is going to be.  It's still not.  It's still not even half as popular as wrestling.   


Breaking news: Jake hates soccer. Of course the Russia World Cup had low ratings in the US. 8 time zones away and the US wasn't playing. Meanwhile here in Cincinnati, FCC attendance is up 19% this year. FCC averaged 21,199 fans a game last year this year they're at 25,230 with 2 home games plus the playoffs still to be played. Look at the tickets available for Sunday's match...there are very few tickets remaining. They were able to renew 50% of the season ticket fan base within the first week renewals went up and will most likely pass 20,000 season tickets next season.

Also here are 3 articles for 3 major news outlets with more statistics showing that soccer is becoming a big time sport in this country.

USA TODAY: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2018/07/17/world-cup-could-soccer-surpass-baseball-popularity-2026-all-star-game/789223002/

FORBES: https://www.forbes.com/sites/filipbondy/2018/01/08/soccer-will-soon-be-americas-third-favorite-spectator-sport/#25ac70e3c537

WASHINGTON POST: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/06/07/feature/soccer-in-the-u-s-doesnt-need-a-team-in-the-world-cup-its-already-here-to-stay/
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 08:01:31 AM by cincydave8 »

Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1527 on: September 14, 2018, 08:38:27 AM »
We are the future, we are the past. We are time. Time is one.

WHOA

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1528 on: September 14, 2018, 11:10:50 AM »
The FC Cincinnati is building a brand new stadium in town. Our city has three major league teams now. This enhances the market for people moving to the area, becoming Cincinnatians, and doing what people do. This babble about historic buildings is silly. If you wanted to keep the damnable buildings you should have bought them. Then hired a few old ladies to do historic building tours and speak like they were from the old country. I bet the tourists from Europe and Asia would flock to see a guided tour of an "OTR near" home built in 1855. i can hardly wait to be the first in line. Dick's has a sale on tents this week. Come, join me.

People wonder why Cincinnati is unknown on the national stage.... this is why in spite of you guys having a huge stock of historic housing that is on par with several major us tourist destinations.   This stuff is valuable believe it or not!

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1529 on: September 14, 2018, 11:16:49 AM »
The FC Cincinnati is building a brand new stadium in town. Our city has three major league teams now. This enhances the market for people moving to the area, becoming Cincinnatians, and doing what people do. This babble about historic buildings is silly. If you wanted to keep the damnable buildings you should have bought them. Then hired a few old ladies to do historic building tours and speak like they were from the old country. I bet the tourists from Europe and Asia would flock to see a guided tour of an "OTR near" home built in 1855. i can hardly wait to be the first in line. Dick's has a sale on tents this week. Come, join me.

People wonder why Cincinnati is unknown on the national stage.... this is why in spite of you guys having a huge stock of historic housing that is on par with several major us tourist destinations.   This stuff is valuable believe it or not!

Agreed - although I prefer Cleveland to Cincinnati (albeit a biased opinion ;) ) what Cincinnati has over Cleveland by leaps and bounds is preserved historic buildings. The rowhomes in Cincinnati are beautiful and allow for great density in up and coming areas like OTR.

Beyond that, high density neighborhoods allow for a more special, "English-style" soccer experience. What would be really cool would be if they could incorporate those homes into the facade of the stadium.