Author Topic: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium  (Read 103740 times)

neilworms, Largue and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online ColDayMan

  • ♫ An Apollo Legend ♫
  • Administrator
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 22234
    • UrbanOhio
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1170 on: April 16, 2018, 05:01:15 PM »
FC Cincinnati stadium site will be a special taxing district

The West End site where FC Cincinnati’s $200 million Major League Soccer stadium could be located will have a special taxing district around it that will help fund the cost of the project.

Assuming the club gets the required government approvals, between $7 million and $11 million will be raised at the “New Community Authority” that will be established at the site. A special sales tax of 2 percent will be charged on tickets, merchandise and admissions sold from the site.

The sales tax at the site would be 9 percent.

It’s the first example of one being used in Hamilton County, said Laura Brunner, the CEO of the Greater Cincinnati Redevelopment Authority, whose board gave preliminary approval Monday to its role in the stadium deal. The other, major local example is Liberty Center, the mixed-use outdoor mall and housing project in Liberty Township.

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/16/fc-cincinnati-stadium-site-will-be-a-special.html
"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Online taestell

  • Global Moderator
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7731
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1171 on: April 16, 2018, 05:02:41 PM »
Council had some debate today over the fact that the community benefits agreement does not specify any enforcement procedure -- i.e., what happens if FCC agrees that they will give money to community groups and build low income housing as part of the CBA, and then they don't. The council members supporting the deal said "it's a legally binding contract" and Mann seemed very arrogant towards any council members daring to criticize the deal. I just think it's pointless to sign a CBA and play that up as a big win for the community if it doesn't even include some sort of penalty or other repercussions if FCC doesn't follow through.

Online ColDayMan

  • ♫ An Apollo Legend ♫
  • Administrator
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 22234
    • UrbanOhio
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1172 on: April 16, 2018, 05:39:05 PM »
Expert pans key part of FC Cincinnati stadium agreement before today’s vote

A national expert in community benefit agreements criticized the pact signed Monday by the West End Community Council president and other neighborhood leaders, saying that it is slanted toward the club and has weak enforcement provisions.

The CBA is a key part of the stadium deal’s structure with the version unveiled Friday requiring that the City Council give its OK before any of the $35 million in city infrastructure and site preparation funding is released for the project. Councilman Jeff Pastor floated the notion of refusing to vote for the stadium agreement without a CBA being in place and endorsed the CBA at a Monday City Hall news conference.

A vote on the full package is set for Monday’s 4 p.m. council meeting. If it passes, FC Cincinnati hopes to receive its Major League Soccer bid.

“It’s an obviously one-sided document drafted in favor of the developer,” said Julian Gross, an attorney with PolicyLink who has worked on dozens of such agreements across the country and has given presentations and informally advised the West End and some City Council members on this agreement without pay. “Council members and the public should look at this and see if (it's) the product of a real negotiation to deliver community benefits or a glorified PR play by the developer and other supporters of the project.”

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/16/expert-pans-key-part-of-fc-cincinnati-stadium.html
"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Offline ucgrady

  • Rhodes Tower 629'
  • ***
  • Posts: 518
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1173 on: April 16, 2018, 06:10:40 PM »
Chris Wetterich
@ChrisCinciBiz
Ordinance passes 5-4. Young, Seelbach, Dennard and Landsman voting “no."

Online troeros

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 340
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1174 on: April 16, 2018, 06:21:49 PM »
We should hear MLS announcing our bid this week (hopefully)...

And with that folks, we take a step forward. Where that step will take us, who knows. That said, I am hopeful that there will be renewed interested in development once again in the West End, and progress will be continued further in OTR and North of Liberty.

 I know at the very least, we will see an influx of new bars, resturaunts, cafes, and retail that will service the 25,000 fans on gameday, and our street cars will see more service as well.

 At the very least, on the 20 or so match days throughout the spring/summer/fall our city will be that more vibrant, and have bustling life and energy. Something cincy needs more of.

My final, biggest hope, is that these kids who are giant FCC fans, will come down to OTR/West End, and fall in love with the architecture, the vibrancy, the walkable streets, and when they grow up, have a desire to move down to the urban core as well.

Offline MikeInCanton

  • Huntington Tower 330'
  • **
  • Posts: 201
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1175 on: April 16, 2018, 10:04:38 PM »
I am a little surprised the capacity will be just 21,000. I figured FCC would shoot a little bigger given their popularity.

Offline jakelley36

  • Excavation Site
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1176 on: April 16, 2018, 10:28:02 PM »
I had read that it will start at 21,000 and be expandable to 30,000.

Online ColDayMan

  • ♫ An Apollo Legend ♫
  • Administrator
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 22234
    • UrbanOhio
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1177 on: April 17, 2018, 12:02:17 AM »
Council approves FC Cincinnati deal, clearing the way for West End stadium

The Cincinnati City Council approved a memorandum of understanding Monday with FC Cincinnati that probably will pave the way for the club to build a Major League Soccer stadium in the West End behind Taft Information Technology High School.

The 5-4 vote means the city will provide a major $35 million assistance package to the team, which is co-owned by American Financial Corp. co-CEO Carl Lindner and Cintas Corp. CEO Scott Farmer, that includes funding for infrastructure and traffic improvements and site preparation. That figure does not include $15 million that Hamilton County will provide to build a parking garage.

Council members Greg Landsman, Chris Seelbach, Tamaya Dennard and Wendell Young, all Democrats, voted “no” on the ordinance.

Most of the city money comes from restricted sources, such as a tax-increment financing district and the city’s share of the county hotel tax, but $6.4 million comes from the city’s share of Blue Ash Airport money and $2.5 million in money from fiscal year 2019’s capital budget. Both are sources that could have gone to general city services and capital needs.

“This is very, very positive,” said Mayor John Cranley. “You know who agrees with me? My predecessor, Mayor Mark Mallory. What I’ve heard is prophets of the status quo, who want to do nothing."

Full article below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/16/council-approves-fc-cincinnati-deal-clearing-the.html
"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Online troeros

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 340
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1178 on: April 17, 2018, 05:37:43 AM »
The new cba, for anyone who wants to take a read

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t169659m0zga54e/FCCWECC.pdf

Online bfwissel

  • Premium Member
  • One World Trade Center 1,776'
  • ***
  • Posts: 1009
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1179 on: April 17, 2018, 09:21:45 AM »
While I tend to agree that the West End needs the community agreement much more than OTR, this behavior by Smitherman is hardly surprising.


The legislation was subject to several last-minute changes, including severing Over-the-Rhine, which is one block away from the stadium, from a community benefits agreement of which the council must approve in order for FC Cincinnati to receive city funding. City Hall sources say that condition came from Vice Mayor Christopher Smitherman, an independent, who did not immediately return a text seeking comment.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/16/council-approves-fc-cincinnati-deal-clearing-the.html
"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett

Online Robuu

  • Premium Member
  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1180 on: April 17, 2018, 10:40:51 AM »
I'm very disappointed that the West End community was not sufficiently engaged by Berding and FCC, but instead a cursory CBA was pushed through at the last minute.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/16/expert-pans-key-part-of-fc-cincinnati-stadium.html

It's something of a moot point now, I guess, but needs to kept in mind in the future. I'm trying to get over it and just hope things work out for the best, for the benefit of the West End and the vibrancy of the city.

Online Brutus_buckeye

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 3237
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1181 on: April 17, 2018, 10:52:48 AM »
While I tend to agree that the West End needs the community agreement much more than OTR, this behavior by Smitherman is hardly surprising.


The legislation was subject to several last-minute changes, including severing Over-the-Rhine, which is one block away from the stadium, from a community benefits agreement of which the council must approve in order for FC Cincinnati to receive city funding. City Hall sources say that condition came from Vice Mayor Christopher Smitherman, an independent, who did not immediately return a text seeking comment.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/16/council-approves-fc-cincinnati-deal-clearing-the.html

OTR had no business in the deal. They will tangentially benefit with no interruption into their activities. THis is a benefit to OTR with zero cost. It just screams of coming to the party and asking for a handout when you did not do anything to deserve it. While we are at it, why not make the team sign a CBA including demands from Hyde Park and Oakley.  I would argue Oakley has a bigger beef than OTR in this particular case if we want to play that game.

Online Cincy513

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 391
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1182 on: April 17, 2018, 11:31:02 AM »
Yeah OTR had no business in the deal and they came to the table making ridiculous demands like FC buying another streetcar and extending the track lines.  They took themselves out of the discussions with their stupid demands.  The West End also made some ridiculous requests as well (free wifi for the neighborhood?  seriously?) but they'll get the major things they want: parking permits, more low income housing and gameday controls over traffic, security, littering, lights and noise.   

Offline thebillshark

  • One World Trade Center 1,776'
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1183 on: April 17, 2018, 11:45:06 AM »
Yeah OTR had no business in the deal and they came to the table making ridiculous demands like FC buying another streetcar and extending the track lines.  They took themselves out of the discussions with their stupid demands.  The West End also made some ridiculous requests as well (free wifi for the neighborhood?  seriously?) but they'll get the major things they want: parking permits, more low income housing and gameday controls over traffic, security, littering, lights and noise.   

This is incorrect. The ask was to run additional streetcar service on game days, not to buy more streetcars. We have 5 streetcars of which 2 or 3 are in service at any one time. They should run 4 or 5 to meet demand on game days. They are only building 1,750 parking spots for a 21,000 seat stadium, so they will need the streetcar to contribute getting people to the stadium. Current streetcar service levels simply aren’t going to cut it. They’ll find out the hard way I guess.

Online Cincy513

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 391
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1184 on: April 17, 2018, 12:08:59 PM »
Yeah OTR had no business in the deal and they came to the table making ridiculous demands like FC buying another streetcar and extending the track lines.  They took themselves out of the discussions with their stupid demands.  The West End also made some ridiculous requests as well (free wifi for the neighborhood?  seriously?) but they'll get the major things they want: parking permits, more low income housing and gameday controls over traffic, security, littering, lights and noise.   


This is incorrect. The ask was to run additional streetcar service on game days, not to buy more streetcars. We have 5 streetcars of which 2 or 3 are in service at any one time. They should run 4 or 5 to meet demand on game days. They are only building 1,750 parking spots for a 21,000 seat stadium, so they will need the streetcar to contribute getting people to the stadium. Current streetcar service levels simply aren’t going to cut it. They’ll find out the hard way I guess.
That is something the city needs to do, not FC.  In no way should FC have to pay to run more streetcars, a city owned public asset, because their game is bringing more people downtown.  By the time this stadium opens though we'll be close to having a new mayor.  So moving forward with the new stadium hopefully the city will actually be proactive with how the streetcar is run during large events downtown. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 12:13:26 PM by Cincy513 »

Online Brutus_buckeye

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 3237
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1185 on: April 17, 2018, 12:13:50 PM »
Yeah OTR had no business in the deal and they came to the table making ridiculous demands like FC buying another streetcar and extending the track lines.  They took themselves out of the discussions with their stupid demands.  The West End also made some ridiculous requests as well (free wifi for the neighborhood?  seriously?) but they'll get the major things they want: parking permits, more low income housing and gameday controls over traffic, security, littering, lights and noise.   

This is incorrect. The ask was to run additional streetcar service on game days, not to buy more streetcars. We have 5 streetcars of which 2 or 3 are in service at any one time. They should run 4 or 5 to meet demand on game days. They are only building 1,750 parking spots for a 21,000 seat stadium, so they will need the streetcar to contribute getting people to the stadium. Current streetcar service levels simply aren’t going to cut it. They’ll find out the hard way I guess.

That should take care of itself. When demand on Gameday spikes and they can justify the cost, it will be easy to add the streetcar

Online Cincy513

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 391
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1186 on: April 17, 2018, 12:34:26 PM »
Yeah OTR had no business in the deal and they came to the table making ridiculous demands like FC buying another streetcar and extending the track lines.  They took themselves out of the discussions with their stupid demands.  The West End also made some ridiculous requests as well (free wifi for the neighborhood?  seriously?) but they'll get the major things they want: parking permits, more low income housing and gameday controls over traffic, security, littering, lights and noise.   

This is incorrect. The ask was to run additional streetcar service on game days, not to buy more streetcars. We have 5 streetcars of which 2 or 3 are in service at any one time. They should run 4 or 5 to meet demand on game days. They are only building 1,750 parking spots for a 21,000 seat stadium, so they will need the streetcar to contribute getting people to the stadium. Current streetcar service levels simply aren’t going to cut it. They’ll find out the hard way I guess.

That should take care of itself. When demand on Gameday spikes and they can justify the cost, it will be easy to add the streetcar
It's not even just about adding another car.  A simple thing like having two cars waiting for when a game gets out would be such an easy thing to but apparently no one thinks/wants to do that. 

Online Brutus_buckeye

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 3237
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1187 on: April 17, 2018, 12:41:48 PM »
They cant even get the stoplights figured out 2 years into it so let's start there first.

Offline thebillshark

  • One World Trade Center 1,776'
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1188 on: April 17, 2018, 12:46:33 PM »
Yeah OTR had no business in the deal and they came to the table making ridiculous demands like FC buying another streetcar and extending the track lines.  They took themselves out of the discussions with their stupid demands.  The West End also made some ridiculous requests as well (free wifi for the neighborhood?  seriously?) but they'll get the major things they want: parking permits, more low income housing and gameday controls over traffic, security, littering, lights and noise.   

This is incorrect. The ask was to run additional streetcar service on game days, not to buy more streetcars. We have 5 streetcars of which 2 or 3 are in service at any one time. They should run 4 or 5 to meet demand on game days. They are only building 1,750 parking spots for a 21,000 seat stadium, so they will need the streetcar to contribute getting people to the stadium. Current streetcar service levels simply aren’t going to cut it. They’ll find out the hard way I guess.

That should take care of itself. When demand on Gameday spikes and they can justify the cost, it will be easy to add the streetcar
It's not even just about adding another car.  A simple thing like having two cars waiting for when a game gets out would be such an easy thing to but apparently no one thinks/wants to do that. 

The problem is the 3 way bureaucracy and contract structure (city, Sorta, Transdev) surrounding the streetcar makes them blind/ties their hands to reacting to what’s going on around them. I don’t think they ran all 5 streetcars even for the Blink festival. Without external partnerships being established (with FC Cincinnati, or the Reds, or Taste of Cincinnati or Oktoberfest or Blink) to accomplish specific service goals I have little hope this situation will change.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 12:48:56 PM by thebillshark »

Offline jmecklenborg

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 15416
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1189 on: April 17, 2018, 01:06:26 PM »
I am skeptical that the streetcar will play a big roll in ferrying people to or from this soccer stadium, at least right at game time.  The distance between the stadium and the streetcar stations is too vast.  I do expect that use will be somewhat higher throughout the day.   



Offline DEPACincy

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 387
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1190 on: April 18, 2018, 11:54:11 AM »
There are literally two streetcar stations one block from where the stadium will be.

Offline jmecklenborg

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 15416
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1191 on: April 18, 2018, 12:36:00 PM »
There are literally two streetcar stations one block from where the stadium will be.

Not really.  The northbound track is on Elm.  The southbound track is on Race, a block (400 feet) further east.  The Race St. stations at Liberty is over 1,000 feet from the stadium and the Race station at Washington Park is more like 1,500+ feet.  I foresee a lot of people hailing a cab on Central Parkway. 

Online jwulsin

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 2322
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1192 on: April 18, 2018, 12:40:40 PM »
There are literally two streetcar stations one block from where the stadium will be.

Not really.  The northbound track is on Elm.  The southbound track is on Race, a block (400 feet) further east.  The Race St. stations at Liberty is over 1,000 feet from the stadium and the Race station at Washington Park is more like 1,500+ feet.  I foresee a lot of people hailing a cab on Central Parkway. 

A lot depends on how exactly the stadium is situated. The closer they can get the entrance to Central Parkway (my understanding is they want to build up to Central Parkway, if they can get all the necessary parcels), the easier it will be for folks to walk 1 block to Elm or 2 blocks to Race.

Online Cincy513

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 391
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1193 on: April 18, 2018, 12:47:01 PM »
I can't tell you the last time I saw someone use a cab.  And I live downtown. 

Online GCrites80s

  • Premium Member
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • ***
  • Posts: 9125
  • 1492 or 4,192?
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1194 on: April 18, 2018, 12:50:55 PM »
^Of course. When cab companies that need to turn a profit have to compete with "tech" firms that are allowed to lose as much money as they want because people "like" the tech firms the cab companies are going to exit the market.

Offline ucgrady

  • Rhodes Tower 629'
  • ***
  • Posts: 518
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1195 on: April 18, 2018, 12:53:36 PM »
Because of Nippert's location in the middle of UC's campus, it's at least a quarter mile to any real street anyway. FC fans should be used to walking a few blocks to get to and from the stadium.

The problem is the sight lines are blocked by Music Hall and other buildings so if you don't already know it's there, the streetcar wouldn't be obvious at all. It would be helpful to add some signage or wayfinding to draw people over to Washington Park.

Offline jmecklenborg

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 15416
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1196 on: April 18, 2018, 12:59:06 PM »
I can't tell you the last time I saw someone use a cab.  And I live downtown. 

I took one from the cab stand in front of the Millennium Hotel last month after I dropped off a rental car.  I don't understand why people wait around for an Uber car to show up when a line of cabs are sitting right there ready to roll, aside from the fact that Uber is a completely sleazy business.  Riders and the company profit on the backs of the drivers, who thanks to depreciation of their own vehicles literally make zero money. 

Online taestell

  • Global Moderator
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7731
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1197 on: April 18, 2018, 01:02:58 PM »
I think a lot of FCC fans will pregame at bars in OTR before walking over to the stadium. I don't necessarily think many people will take the streetcar "to" the stadium, but many of them will use it getting from point to point (Rhinehaus to Rhinegeist), which is the primary transportation purpose of the streetcar.

Offline thomasbw

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1198 on: April 18, 2018, 03:30:52 PM »
I can't tell you the last time I saw someone use a cab.  And I live downtown. 

I took one from the cab stand in front of the Millennium Hotel last month after I dropped off a rental car.  I don't understand why people wait around for an Uber car to show up when a line of cabs are sitting right there ready to roll, aside from the fact that Uber is a completely sleazy business.  Riders and the company profit on the backs of the drivers, who thanks to depreciation of their own vehicles literally make zero money. 

Uber tells me what the fare will be in advance and about half the time I'm in a cab they say the credit card machine isn't working.

Offline bendixondavis

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 370
Re: Cincinnati: Proposed FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1199 on: April 18, 2018, 03:58:36 PM »
I can't tell you the last time I saw someone use a cab.  And I live downtown. 

I took one from the cab stand in front of the Millennium Hotel last month after I dropped off a rental car.  I don't understand why people wait around for an Uber car to show up when a line of cabs are sitting right there ready to roll, aside from the fact that Uber is a completely sleazy business.  Riders and the company profit on the backs of the drivers, who thanks to depreciation of their own vehicles literally make zero money. 

Uber tells me what the fare will be in advance and about half the time I'm in a cab they say the credit card machine isn't working.

Lol I have definitely had this happen where the credit card machine is clearly on and doesn't look like it's not working. Figured it was a scam they do to go around fees etc. I'm like what would you have done if I didn't have cash?