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Author Topic: The Democratic Party  (Read 3006 times)

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Offline mu2010

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2017, 09:51:02 AM »
So the coalition politics that would occur at the level of the legislature itself in a proportional representation system occurs at the party level in a first-past-the-post system.

That's exactly it, and that's why I advocate for Democrats (and Republicans too) to cut the purity politics. Voters should understand not everyone in their party will be the same as them.

Proportional representation would be great. I actually was thinking a while ago, representation in a legislature based on geographical area of residence is sort of an arbitrary thing. It assumes everyone in a certain area has similar interests to each other and different interests to those in different areas. Why not, instead, have representation based on height, weight, profession, IQ, ethnic background, or Myers-Briggs Personality Type?

Proportional representation bypasses this need to categorize and basically gives people representation based on political views, instead of squeezing square pegs into round holes. It's more direct representation. It gives California evangelicals and Alabama socialists a voice.

Another relevant observation is if you just look at urban politics in our state, Cleveland City Council follows a ward system while Cincinnati and Columbus City Councils are at large. Political scientists have observed differences in outcomes between those systems.

But you're probably looking at changing 51 constitutions, so it's safe to assume our system is here to stay, and we need to figure out how to make it work.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 09:55:35 AM by mu2010 »

Offline Gramarye

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2017, 10:02:57 AM »
So the coalition politics that would occur at the level of the legislature itself in a proportional representation system occurs at the party level in a first-past-the-post system.

That's exactly it, and that's why I advocate for Democrats (and Republicans too) to cut the purity politics. Voters should understand not everyone in their party will be the same as them.

Proportional representation would be great. I actually was thinking a while ago, representation in a legislature based on geographical area of residence is sort of an arbitrary thing. It assumes everyone in a certain area has similar interests to each other and different interests to those in different areas. Why not, instead, have representation based on height, weight, profession, IQ, ethnic background, or Myers-Briggs Personality Type?

No dice.  Not enough high-IQ ENTJs to form a viable party.  I'd be SOL.

(And in seriousness, you don't want "ethnic background" to the basis, either, and I say that as one of America's still-dominant ethnic group of "various white European hodgepodge.")

Offline mu2010

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2017, 10:11:49 AM »
Haha, I was just throwing stuff out there to make my point. Profession is an interesting one though.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2017, 11:44:57 AM »
https://shareblue.com/first-time-candidates-26-point-win-breaks-gops-state-senate-supermajority-in-georgia/

Democrats are doing just fine.

Quote
On Tuesday night, most of the attention in Georgia went to a nail-bitingly close race for the mayor of Atlanta, with Democratic candidate Keisha Lance Bottoms winning by just a few hundred votes and a recount on the horizon.
But there was another, less noticed Democratic victory, in a special election that flipped a state Senate seat from red to blue — and ended a Republican supermajority in the chamber.
Georgia’s 6th Senate District, in north-central Atlanta, became vacant following Republican Hunter Hill’s resignation to run for governor. It will now be represented by Jen Jordan, a lawyer and first-time candidate who has fought for sexual assault survivors and victims of predatory lending in court, and sued to block Georgia voter suppression laws in 2006. She supports LGBT rights, public education, a $10.10 minimum wage, and health care expansion, and won numerous progressive endorsements from Daily Kos to NARAL.

Quote
The win is also significant because it officially ends the GOP supermajority in the Georgia Senate. Republicans already lost the supermajority in the state House of Representatives in November. This means if Democrats can win the governorship next year, Republican lawmakers will not have enough votes to automatically override vetoes, a scenario currently hamstringing Gov. Roy Cooper in North Carolina.

Offline 327

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2017, 12:26:48 PM »
That's not "fine" that's one vote short of a Republican supermajority.  The tortoise is so far ahead we can't even see it anymore.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2017, 12:29:23 PM »
Only one seat for up for election.  This is the same pattern the GOP followed after the 2008 election.  2018 will be the test but we are seeing Dems make big gains.  They picked up 16 seats in VA alone.  The pendulum swings.

Offline YABO713

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2017, 12:30:46 PM »
^ Literally the type of sh*t that will keep them losing. First step of changing is acknowledging the need. You have before you a disenchanted fiscal conservative who would gladly vote for a Dem like Doug Jones. What I won't do, however, is get behind a party or movement led by an Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Kamela Harris, or Cory Booker.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2017, 12:32:51 PM »
^ Sanders is not a democrat.  And the GOP has their share of kooks too.  Actually the kooks are running the GOP now.

also, whats wrong with Booker?  He is moderate AF.

Offline 327

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2017, 12:56:15 PM »
^ Literally the type of sh*t that will keep them losing. First step of changing is acknowledging the need. You have before you a disenchanted fiscal conservative who would gladly vote for a Dem like Doug Jones. What I won't do, however, is get behind a party or movement led by an Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Kamela Harris, or Cory Booker.

Honestly I think economic conservatism is how Democrats got in this mess.  So much focus on peeling off a Republican here and a Republican there while the Democratic base falls apart.  Politics is fundamentally about economics.  All the Democrats can offer now are weaker versions of Republican points.  What'll it be folks, free trade or FREE TRADE?  The one exception to this is global warming vs coal mines, and of course Democrats have fine tuned their stance to make the unions as angry as possible. 

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2017, 01:21:41 PM »
Republicans also got very good at "Vote for us or no guns" "Think how we think or no guns" "Do as we say or no guns"

Offline YABO713

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2017, 10:24:22 AM »
^ Sanders is not a democrat.  And the GOP has their share of kooks too.  Actually the kooks are running the GOP now.

also, whats wrong with Booker?  He is moderate AF.

A. Booker is not moderate for a Senator, not at all. McCaskill, Bayth, Nelson, Manchin, Donnelly... those are moderate dems.

B. If Bernie Sanders is not a Dem then why is the DNC bending over backwards to accommodate his agenda and also entertaining the idea of him running in 2020.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2017, 10:30:38 AM »
What is not moderate about booker?

Sanders is an independent - Not a democrat

The senators you mentioned are conservative democrats not moderates.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2017, 10:39:15 AM »
Sanders is going to be 79 in 2020.  Let's be real here, he's not going to be POTUS in Jan. 2021, let alone be a serious candidate in 2020.  Unless he has some magic elixir that is de-aging him.

Offline YABO713

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2017, 10:41:28 AM »
^There is little conservative about their voting record except save Donnelly and Manchin.

Additionally, Bernie ran as a Democrat, he caucuses as a democrat, and he uses the Democratic Party like a side piece whenever he needs some action.

Booker - while I concede he can be considered a moderate on some issues like neighborhood development via jobs and not government assistance, is in support of:

- $15/Minimum wage
- Single payer healthcare
- Staunchly pro-choice
- Cap and trade

Support for those four without exception will land you to the left.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2017, 10:45:08 AM »
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/report-cards/2015/senate/ideology

Booker ranked as the 25th most liberal Senator according to Gov Track in 2015 (take it fwiw). 

Offline surfohio

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2017, 10:47:07 AM »
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/report-cards/2015/senate/ideology

Booker ranked as the 25th most liberal Senator according to Gov Track in 2015 (take it fwiw). 

Booker has also shown a penchant for working with the other side, which in today's political climate I think is worth something.

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2014/0708/Rand-Paul-Cory-Booker-bromance-how-two-political-opposites-attracted

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2017, 10:47:20 AM »
Those four issues will put someone on the left for you. 

- Cap and trade was originally a conservative idea.  But this is when conservatives didn't pretend that science didn't exist and instead wanted to use market based solutions to deal with a real threat.

Offline YABO713

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2017, 12:03:28 PM »
^Lol true that re: cap and trade. However, ideas do shift, and the fact that it now lands firmly to the left doesn't change the fact that it indicates his liberal leanings.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2017, 12:07:17 PM »
Yabo - I like you but that makes no sense.  It was a conservative idea it still is a conservative.  It is based on market principles. 

Offline 327

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2017, 12:20:21 PM »
Obamacare was originally a Republican idea, most of it anyway.  It places insurance profits above provision of healthcare, lets them walk away if unsatisfied, but its critics claim it's socialized medicine.  Republicans have done a good job of convincing everyone the old right is the new center, and eventually the new left.   

Yabo - I like you but that makes no sense.  It was a conservative idea it still is a conservative.  It is based on market principles. 

Perfect example.  It can't be a conservative idea because despite the market principles it's still a regulation.  If you really believed in market principles, you'd give polluters free reign.  They've been pushed around long enough.  Did I say pushed around?  i meant persecuted!  Only a left wing extremist would allow such torture to persist.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 12:32:56 PM by 327 »

Offline mu2010

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2017, 12:36:29 PM »
Today's conservative economic thinking is based on staying home from class the day they talked about externalities.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2017, 12:40:00 PM »
American politics today is basically, if you admit that externalities and market failures exist, then you are a Marxist.

Offline 327

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2017, 01:02:42 PM »
At Ohio's 1912 constitutional convention, Teddy Roosevelt insisted he was not a communist but maintained that the bigger a business gets, the bigger the problems it can cause.

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2017, 01:50:32 PM »
This is a searing indictment of the Democrat party and the feminist excuses for Bill Clinton's horrific behavior at the time. It seems like their chickens have finally come home to roost. Re Franken: notice he didn't actually resign today, but "in coming weeks" hmmmm ;)

I Believe Franken’s Accusers Because He Groped Me, Too
The Democratic Party needs to stand with women who have been harassed—and not defend the politicians who abused them.

Dia Dipasupil / Getty / Katie Martin / The Atlantic
TINA DUPUY  DEC 6, 2017 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/i-believe-frankens-accusers-because-he-groped-me-too/547691/

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2017, 01:54:46 PM »
^ When is Blake Farenthold gonna resign? 

When is Donald Trump gonna resign?

What about pedophile Moore?

the Gross Old Perverts have ceded any moral high ground.  It would be best to lay low on sexual assault/ harassment bashing based on political parties when only one party is doing something,

Offline Ram23

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2017, 02:08:02 PM »
Is there a complete running list handy somewhere? My assumption would be that for every Republican who has been accused in this new post-Weinstein world, there are 5-10 Democrats - mostly because the bulk of accusations have been made against wealthy Democrat donors and supporters in the entertainment and media worlds. It's interesting that we haven't really seen these accusations enter corporate or blue collar realms where you'd typically find Republican donors and supporters, yet they're becoming pervasive in Hollywood and the media.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2017, 02:08:39 PM »
Politicians who are resigning (announced in recent weeks): Al Franken, John Conyers

Politicians who are not resigning: Donald Trump, Blake Farenthold, Roy Moore

Hmmm.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2017, 02:11:01 PM »
^^ If you believe that there is an any appreciable difference in the rate of sexual assault/harassment by political affiliation then I assume you are trolling.

Offline 327

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2017, 02:13:50 PM »
Maybe Franken can still run for president.  Maybe this even helps.  "Three years ago I saw the light and did what was right.  Al Franken.  Paid for by Al Franken."

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Democratic Party
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2017, 02:15:28 PM »
Why does he need to see the light?  Trump got elected bragging about sexual assault all the way to the White House.