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Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 211948 times)

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Online DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12720 on: January 12, 2018, 08:40:48 PM »
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/550382/

Why would Norweigians want to come to the U.S.?

Online DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12721 on: January 12, 2018, 08:42:59 PM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/12/trump-analyst-of-korean-heritage-should-negotiate-with-north-korea-nbc.html?__source=twitter%7Cmain

Trump said 'pretty Korean' analyst should negotiate with North Korea based on her ethnicity: NBC

Trump is just seeing how racist he can get for the week.

Online DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12722 on: January 12, 2018, 09:01:14 PM »
http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-welfare-black-white-780252

TRUMP THINKS ONLY BLACK PEOPLE ARE ON WELFARE, BUT, REALLY, WHITE AMERICANS RECEIVE MOST BENEFITS

Offline David

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12723 on: January 12, 2018, 09:02:51 PM »
The original inhabitants of these tows were descended from Scots-Irish herdsman, whose livelihood depended on their being feared and respected enough that no one would dare steal their livestock. The point is that the cultural tendencies of our ancestors have an effect on us (and likely our descendants).[/i]

The Scots-Irish hillbilly culture is so deeply ingrained so many generation's later, right? And it's so f-ing hard to shake off, no matter how hard you, as a descendant, try. It's so toxic and so different from what you see on the outside, you can't help but think it's just in the blood... and it's like HIV - it seems almost impossible to get rid of. I'm apparently not the only person to realized this; studies show that people from Scot-Irish descent (mountain people, i.e. hillbillies) actually believe they are genetically inferior and to be honest, it's all been a life-long struggle for me. At least on one side of the family, I come from a family that takes a LOT of pride in what I learned at an early age is actually based on pure ignorance.

I've never read the book you mentioned but I read Hillbilly Elegy, which was very hard for me to read because it forced me to deal with a lot of things I've just suppressed since early childhood as I tried to assimilate into a general society which my family is absolutely nothing like.

My first long-term girlfriend came from a prominent upper-crust family in Shaker and I remember thinking they were so weird because they all got along and didn't create drama all the time. They didn't put each other down left and right while somehow curiously being extremely co-dependent on each other. I actually thought they were all very boring to the extent that I saw them all as robots. That just wasn't the family dynamic I was used to seeing!

I could prattle on forever about the subject but in regards to your post, I know that the families you're referring to are the Hatfields and McCoys. One point made in the book, "Hillbilly Elegy" (along with countless other points made in the book that really resonated with me and wish the world could hear) is that Hillbillies not only react in the worst way possible to any negative situation they're put in where events are out of their control, but they actually take a lot of PRIDE in doing so.

My honest opinion is that Trump's mom was very instrumental in his ignorant way of thinking, despite going to Wharton and having a successful father. The hillbilly mentality is just so hard to shake off, even after hundreds of years/multiple generations. I still have no idea why it's such a problem; I just know it's a major problem.

I really wish I knew the solution. Especially since this has unfortunately played a major role in getting someone like Trump elected when almost anyone else would be better for our country right now.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 09:08:12 PM by David »

Online DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12724 on: January 12, 2018, 09:09:20 PM »
#MAGA crowd is awfully silent.

The Snowflake-in-Chief is cancelling his London visit because of some contrived B.S. over an embassy sale that took place under Bush but he still blames Obama.

Seriously...all you anti-snowflakers, come defend your snowflake.

This received no takers.  You've forefitted your right to ever call anyone or anything a snowflake (as an imsult) again, imo.

Online mu2010

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12725 on: January 12, 2018, 11:55:58 PM »
So apparently way back in 2013 Trump wanted James O'Keefe to go into Columbia University to dig up old Obama records to prove that Obama presented himself as a foreign student in order to get in. This seals the deal in my book. Trump was obsessed with Obama after he told a few jokes about him in 2011, and that's pretty much why the man is president today.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/james-okeefe-says-trump-asked-him-to-go-on-birther-linked-mission/ar-AAuC5SW

Offline David

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12726 on: January 12, 2018, 11:59:56 PM »
Sounds like something a narcissist would do.

Offline David

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12727 on: January 13, 2018, 12:45:24 AM »
I'm so tired of these Republicans in Congress covering Trump's @ss and denying his horrific actions. Stop kissing his @ss and grow a pair. It's ridiculous. This is the same guy who talked about how corrupt and bought you are, on inauguration day in front of a huge crowd.  If there were a 'Trump @ss kissing awards' ceremony, Paul Ryan and Mike Pence would definitely be nominees in multiple categories, along with the Republicans who were present in the oval office when Trump was talking about folks coming from sh!thole countries. They're degrading themselves beyond belief. Dear God. Have some self respect.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 12:52:16 AM by David »

Online 327

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12728 on: January 13, 2018, 09:44:03 AM »
They're buying what he's selling.  Why should they pretend otherwise? 

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12729 on: January 13, 2018, 10:58:46 AM »
wow, I don't blame Haitians for being angry with Trump for his comment, so much so that they staged this protest yesterday. Oh, wait a minute, they're protesting Bill & Hill?? The hypocrisy is overwhelming. Who are the real racists?


Offline KJP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12730 on: January 13, 2018, 11:18:48 AM »
As well they should protest all crooks and liars -- Clintons, Trumps, you name it. All are fathers of American decadence.
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Online DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12731 on: January 13, 2018, 11:42:33 AM »
http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/12/politics/shithole-comment-republican-reaction/index.html

Republican hypocrisy (redundant) on display again.

Remember when Republicans faked outrage over Obama wearing antan suit, his use of paper clips, and holding a hip-hop BBQ? **** These people.

Offline bumsquare

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12732 on: January 13, 2018, 11:49:52 AM »
wow, I don't blame Haitians for being angry with Trump for his comment, so much so that they staged this protest yesterday. Oh, wait a minute, they're protesting Bill & Hill?? The hypocrisy is overwhelming. Who are the real racists?



More than one person can be racist.

“Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world”

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12733 on: January 13, 2018, 11:58:40 AM »
^^and remember when Obama called Romney a "bullsh--ter?" Of course not. The media didn't dwell on it day and night. But Trump uses the s-word and all of a sudden-- OMG!--it's a constitutional crisis, the end of our democracy, and a worldwide crisis of confidence in America itself! Again, there's a reason the reputation of the mainstream media is in the toilet. They deserve it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/25/obama-romney-bullshitter-rolling-stone

"Cue outrage and hysteria from Republicans"
--what?? lol

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12734 on: January 13, 2018, 12:00:59 PM »
The vulgar language is not the problem.  You really aren't required to defend Trump on everything. 

Online mu2010

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12735 on: January 13, 2018, 12:03:21 PM »
“Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world”

And just like the Soviets, @eastvillagedon knows exactly what he's doing, you don't need to explain it to him. Best thing to do would be not to take the bait, and move on.

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12736 on: January 13, 2018, 12:09:08 PM »
okay, ya got me! I'm on the phone with the Kremlin right now. Putin on his way to ice fishing...he sez hello. ::)

Online DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12737 on: January 13, 2018, 12:38:56 PM »
The fact that @eastvillagedon only focuses on the word and not the vulgar meanings behind them and the message Trump wants to convey tells me all I need to know.

Btw, how are those family values of Trump? Paying off 100 women with whom he cheated on Melania?

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12738 on: January 13, 2018, 01:04:31 PM »
^But this is what the media seems to be focusing on. I thought the s-word was one of the FCC's forbidden words. The networks must have racked up many millions in fines by now, and on the verge of having their licenses revoked for using that word over and over. No? It just seems odd that this would have never been permitted in the past, but it's okay now that Trump is president. And it seems like you're the one ignoring the "meanings" in the message. However inartfully or crudely he made his remarks, he said nothing about race. Is Trump racist? He might be, but it is you who always brings it up. Trump's comments were focused on the general economic and political conditions of the countries he mentioned. If Norway and Sweden were suffering in the same ways as Haiti, I'm certain he would have a problem with bringing too many immigrants from those countries as well. It's not that Trump wants to forbid immigration from "third world countries" (and I hate that term), it's just that he wants to see more balance by allowing more people from prosperous nations too. That's what this really about, but I know it doesn't matter to you. If Trump announced that he had discovered a cure for cancer, instead of at least giving him praise for that, you would be asking why he couldn't have found a cure for heart disease too. He's in no win situation no matter what he does from those determined to see him removed from office.

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12739 on: January 13, 2018, 01:08:13 PM »
No one is debating that these countries are in terrible shape.  Again you either fail to see the issue or your tribalism blinds you.  Try understanding the issue and refrain from posting until then.

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12740 on: January 13, 2018, 01:17:24 PM »
well, I can at least see that "tribalism" is blinding someone ::). What's the saying? There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See or, Clean Up Your Own Backyard, Glass Houses. etc. etc. Your choice.

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12741 on: January 13, 2018, 01:19:37 PM »
I don't want anyone from a sh!thole like Painesville to step foot in my house.

Is that comment about the city of Painesville, the people from there, or both.  Think carefully and provide an answer.

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12742 on: January 13, 2018, 01:24:25 PM »
^all of the above. no, you're right, it is a sh!thole. But they're trying to improve! Just ask the people at the Downtown Painesville Organization, always welcome to your suggestions :)

https://www.facebook.com/downtownpainesville/

and btw, everyone check out the Fox 8 morning show on MLK Day .  I think my high school choir will be performing.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 01:26:45 PM by eastvillagedon »

Online mu2010

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12743 on: January 13, 2018, 01:25:22 PM »
^But this is what the media seems to be focusing on. I thought the s-word was one of the FCC's forbidden words. The networks must have racked up many millions in fines by now, and on the verge of having their licenses revoked for using that word over and over. No? It just seems odd that this would have never been permitted in the past, but it's okay now that Trump is president. And it seems like you're the one ignoring the "meanings" in the message. However inartfully or crudely he made his remarks, he said nothing about race. Is Trump racist? He might be, but it is you who always brings it up. Trump's comments were focused on the general economic and political conditions of the countries he mentioned. If Norway and Sweden were suffering in the same ways as Haiti, I'm certain he would have a problem with bringing too many immigrants from those countries as well. It's not that Trump wants to forbid immigration from "third world countries" (and I hate that term), it's just that he wants to see more balance by allowing more people from prosperous nations too. That's what this really about, but I know it doesn't matter to you. If Trump announced that he had discovered a cure for cancer, instead of at least giving him praise for that, you would be asking why he couldn't have found a cure for heart disease too. He's in no win situation no matter what he does from those determined to see him removed from office.

We can have a debate over whether or not it's racist, which frankly is a debate I'm not interested in, but either way, it's not appropriate for POTUS, a figure of global leadership, to be calling any country on the planet, regardless of the race of the people who live there or the actual living conditions in that place, a sh!thole. It's also inappropriate because he is supposed to be president of all Americans, many of whom came from those places, not just president of his base. Obama always reached out to people in what is now Trump country and earned many votes there.

It's an entirely legitimate debate to have about which immigrants we let in from which countries, it's not proper for a president to call countries that, and it's not in the same universe as calling a fellow politician a BSer - and not the same thing as simply swearing. Not an FCC issue, it's an issue of the image of our country we project to the world. And an issue of terrible leadership, a leader isn't supposed to say sh!thole because it's authentic to what his base thinks (a lame defense which has been circulating around Fox news), a leader is supposed to inspire people to be better than that.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 01:34:54 PM by mu2010 »

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12744 on: January 13, 2018, 01:34:44 PM »
^But this is what the media seems to be focusing on. I thought the s-word was one of the FCC's forbidden words. The networks must have racked up many millions in fines by now, and on the verge of having their licenses revoked for using that word over and over. No? It just seems odd that this would have never been permitted in the past, but it's okay now that Trump is president. And it seems like you're the one ignoring the "meanings" in the message. However inartfully or crudely he made his remarks, he said nothing about race. Is Trump racist? He might be, but it is you who always brings it up. Trump's comments were focused on the general economic and political conditions of the countries he mentioned. If Norway and Sweden were suffering in the same ways as Haiti, I'm certain he would have a problem with bringing too many immigrants from those countries as well. It's not that Trump wants to forbid immigration from "third world countries" (and I hate that term), it's just that he wants to see more balance by allowing more people from prosperous nations too. That's what this really about, but I know it doesn't matter to you. If Trump announced that he had discovered a cure for cancer, instead of at least giving him praise for that, you would be asking why he couldn't have found a cure for heart disease too. He's in no win situation no matter what he does from those determined to see him removed from office.

We can have a debate over whether or not it's racist, which frankly is a debate I'm not interested in, but either way, it's not appropriate for POTUS, a figure of global leadership, to be calling any country on the planet, regardless of the race of the people who live there or the actual living conditions in that place, a sh!thole. It's also inappropriate because he is supposed to be president of all Americans, many of whom came from those places, not just president of his base. Obama always reached out to people in Trump country.

It's an entirely legitimate debate to have about which immigrants we let in from which countries, it's not proper for a president to call countries that, and it's not in the same universe as calling a fellow politician a BSer - and not the same thing as simply swearing. Not an FCC issue, it's an issue of the image of our country we project to the world.

okay, I agree! his comments were inappropriate and unpresidential. But do you seriously believe that other presidents didn't use this kind of language in private meetings? The comments were not intended for the general public. Again, the hypocrisy is so overwhelming. Some of these people should get off their respective high horses. re: Obama reaching out to Trump country. You mean when he talked about people "clinging to their guns and religion?" Those people?

Online mu2010

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12745 on: January 13, 2018, 01:37:35 PM »
That was certainly not Obama's best moment. I think the difference is that Obama is somebody who is able to self-reflect, recognize his error, and be sorry about it. and we never saw him say anything like that again. As a matter of fact, we probably saw him make a greater effort to reach out after those comments. Trump has shown no history of reflection or growth, and likely doesn't understand the problem with what he said, and will most likely double down on his comments if not in public, in private. He most likely feels this is an instance of PC hysteria, when it's not, it's an issue of simple dignity - and he does not seem to posses the ability to tell the difference.

In terms of other Presidents, I bet LBJ and Nixon could talk like that about a country - but I can't imagine pretty much any of the others since FDR referring to another country like that. Not Truman, not Ike, not JFK, not Ford, not Carter, not Reagan, not Bush, not Clinton, not Bush, and not Obama. Why is Trump being snitched on? Perhaps because he's done this type of thing so many times, it's such a repeated behavior, that people simply don't want to cover for him. Maybe he's alienated everyone in DC so much they all want to snitch on him. Trump decided to employ a strategy where he talks crap about everybody in public and alienates them all, great for elections but not great for governing. He shouldn't be surprised if they don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 01:50:36 PM by mu2010 »

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12746 on: January 13, 2018, 01:38:12 PM »
These are not just private comments.  The comments are about human beings that he feels are unworthy of emigrating to the US.  they just happen to be black but hey being from a sh!thole is better than being a rapist.  however, being a fine nazi is much better in his eyes.

Offline David

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12747 on: January 13, 2018, 01:40:04 PM »
He didn't think anyone would snitch on him. Well, when you're president, it's hard to have a truly private meeting unless you're discussing highly sensitive information which, if revealed, would pose a threat to national security. That's the life he chose and the country is better off for knowing how he really feels.

Offline David

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12748 on: January 13, 2018, 01:46:33 PM »
I'm pretty confident he won't win a second term unless he starts a war with N. Korea. He's going to be so exhausted and so sick of being president, the Dems are pretty much guaranteed to win. Not only has he given his future opponent so much ammunition but he just won't have the energy to campaign well.

Offline David

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12749 on: January 13, 2018, 02:01:45 PM »
I don't think CNN or NBC will be fined. For one thing, they surprisingly don't have jurisdiction over cable and satellite television.

They don't actually monitor broadcasting;  they rely on snitches contacting them and complaining. When it comes to fining broadcasters, they deal with violations on a case-by-case basis and actually consider the context of profanity with each case. Of course, in this case, they were simply quoting the President of the United States. If there's anyone who is expected to lead by example, it's him. I really don't think that CNN could get into major trouble in terms of racking up a significant dollar amount in fines or losing their license.

Considering how bad that was, I think CNNs ratings were probably higher than Fox or any other news network that night. Even conservatives were tuning into CNN instead of Fox because they were actually covering it well. Journalists and their managers must be well aware that higher ratings would offset the petty fines from the FCC.