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Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 99048 times)

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Offline viscomi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12690 on: January 12, 2018, 12:22:15 PM »
I listen to fox 8 news as background noise in the mornings. A caller in response to Trumps comment said something to this effect "So what, people slip up and swear sometimes" That response pretty much sums up a sizable portion of this countries citizens and how far removed from reality they really are.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12691 on: January 12, 2018, 12:23:52 PM »
This is like the grab em by the p**** all over again.  It is not the crude language that people are upset about. 

Offline mu2010

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12692 on: January 12, 2018, 12:25:15 PM »
^^It's because those people think "of course they're sh!tholes, you just can't say that in public" when really it's the viewpoint which is the problem. We all know Haiti has a lower standard of living than the US, but you can't sum up all of peoples' experiences in one word like that. Thinking like that is just a mark of immaturity and ignorance, plain and simple.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12693 on: January 12, 2018, 12:27:31 PM »
^ i think one can think that Haiti is a sh!thole to a degree too.  but to then make a judgment on people trying to leave those condition is beyond the pale.  People that support this type of thinking were rightfully described as deplorable.   

Offline jonoh81

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12694 on: January 12, 2018, 12:43:21 PM »
^ My grandparents were Sicilian peasants, also with very weak english skills, but they did want us to speak Italian/Sicilian and also to go to school and learn english.  I guess my point is that assimilation is not all or nothing and there's a lot of gray area between assimilation and not assimilating.  That is why I've always viewed american culture as a stew more than a melting pot.  Every vegetable that gets added to the stew changes the stew slightly and the vegetable itself changes too but it retains some its own shape flavor too.

You guys came from white immigrants.  Obviously brown immigrants don't assimilate well.  That's what we're all missing about Trump's totally fine comments. 

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12695 on: January 12, 2018, 12:46:00 PM »
I thought s#!thole countries applied to the 54 African nations?

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12696 on: January 12, 2018, 12:48:16 PM »
^ My grandparents were Sicilian peasants, also with very weak english skills, but they did want us to speak Italian/Sicilian and also to go to school and learn english.  I guess my point is that assimilation is not all or nothing and there's a lot of gray area between assimilation and not assimilating.  That is why I've always viewed american culture as a stew more than a melting pot.  Every vegetable that gets added to the stew changes the stew slightly and the vegetable itself changes too but it retains some its own shape flavor too.

You guys came from white immigrants.  Obviously brown immigrants don't assimilate well.  That's what we're all missing about Trump's totally fine comments.

I agree with that completely.  But I think that even black and brown immigrants assimilate.  They have an outward appearance that will never "assimilate" but they will culturally assimilate. 

Offline David

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12697 on: January 12, 2018, 01:05:36 PM »
I don't think any group of immigrants has had trouble assimilating here as much as scot-irish hillbillies and they're white and speak English. If you need proof, just meet some of the older people in my family.

Offline X

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12698 on: January 12, 2018, 01:48:22 PM »
^ “Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like Englishmen and Scots! Or Welshmen and Scots! Or Japanese and Scots! Or Scots and other Scots! Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!”
    ―Groundskeeper Willie

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12699 on: January 12, 2018, 01:51:53 PM »

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12700 on: January 12, 2018, 02:06:40 PM »
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/mueller-move-could-signal-hes-looking-at-conspiracy-charges-for-hacking/

Mueller Makes Move Signaling He Might be Looking at Conspiracy Charges for Hacking

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12701 on: January 12, 2018, 02:09:57 PM »

Offline unusualfire

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12702 on: January 12, 2018, 02:22:58 PM »

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12703 on: January 12, 2018, 02:33:01 PM »
I dunno, would it be so bad if we had more Norwegians? We could always use more places that serve lutefisk and that wretched salty licorice Scandinavians seem to love so much.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12704 on: January 12, 2018, 02:36:31 PM »
First it's the Norwegians then come the Swedes and there goes the neighborhood

Offline unusualfire

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12705 on: January 12, 2018, 02:37:11 PM »
I dunno, would it be so bad if we had more Norwegians? We could always use more places that serve lutefisk and that wretched salty licorice Scandinavians seem to love so much.
We already have TON of Russian's that overstay their Visa. Nothing is ever said about them.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12706 on: January 12, 2018, 02:37:15 PM »
All kinds of bombshells with this administration.


http://washingtonpress.com/2018/01/12/eric-trump-just-got-caught-scamming-charity-funnel-donations-dad/

It turns out that even the attacks on the Clinton Foundation were just projection.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 02:44:10 PM by freefourur »

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12707 on: January 12, 2018, 02:40:16 PM »
I dunno, would it be so bad if we had more Norwegians? We could always use more places that serve lutefisk and that wretched salty licorice Scandinavians seem to love so much.
We already have TON of Russian's that overstay their Visa. Nothing is ever said about them.

we'll build a wall to fix that...

Offline unusualfire

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12708 on: January 12, 2018, 04:25:32 PM »
So we got a president paying porn stars 130k to keep quiet about doing the deed.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12709 on: January 12, 2018, 04:34:07 PM »
So we got a president paying porn stars 130k to keep quiet about doing the deed.

No wonder he prefers Russian hookers...much cheaper

Offline KJP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12710 on: January 12, 2018, 05:54:13 PM »
Former Mexican President Vicente Fox put it eloquently this morning stating that President Trump’s mouth is the ‘foulest sh!thole of all.” My apologies to the rest of the world.
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Online E Rocc

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12711 on: January 12, 2018, 06:13:40 PM »
Once again he misses.   The issue is not that the countries are modellholes.  The issue is when immigrants from those places refuse to assimilate (sometimes actively) and bring the bad practices that led to the modellholery with them. 

Ironically, this is not much of an issue with African immigrants, particularly those from English speaking nations.  They do well here.
He focuses on the wrong places so much you can tell he was always a Democrat.



Why is it ironic that "this is not much of an issue with African immigrants"?  What exactly is ironic about that?



I don't want this to get lost in all of the posts.  I ask again @erocc, why is it ironic that assimilation isn't much of an issue with African immigrants? 

Because Trump apparently referred to African nations as the modell-holes.

Online E Rocc

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12712 on: January 12, 2018, 06:23:16 PM »
The big one is definitely language and deserves to be language.  A single language is a major unifying cultural force and a major business asset as well.  The EU is definitely hampered in terms of economic efficiency by having multiple official translations of things.  India went with English for its official business language for that reason, even though it isn't a native language of any of the various pre-colonial states that comprise India and it has 23 or so official languages.  That fluency has been a tremendous magnet for Western investment.

And again, it's the English speaking African nations from where immigrants often assimilate well.  Yes, that's the big one.   A community where there is resistance to learning the mainstream language will remain separatist.  Unfortunately this means they need "leaders" to speak for them and this produces an opportunity for unscrupulous politicians.

Quite frankly, except for citizens born in Puerto Rico (in exchange for the commonwealth prioritizing English in its public schools, as at least one governor has proposed) ballots should not be printed in any other language because English is a requirement for naturalization.   I'd advocate making it a requirement for permanent residence as well.

Online E Rocc

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12713 on: January 12, 2018, 06:25:56 PM »
^ My grandparents were Sicilian peasants, also with very weak english skills, but they did want us to speak Italian/Sicilian and also to go to school and learn english.  I guess my point is that assimilation is not all or nothing and there's a lot of gray area between assimilation and not assimilating.  That is why I've always viewed american culture as a stew more than a melting pot.  Every vegetable that gets added to the stew changes the stew slightly and the vegetable itself changes too but it retains some its own shape flavor too.

You guys came from white immigrants.  Obviously brown immigrants don't assimilate well.  That's what we're all missing about Trump's totally fine comments. 

Last century, Silicians were at least as identifiable as Mexican immigrants and faced the same issues.

I agree with the stew verses the melting pot model.   Though the "salad bowl" model is a recipe for trouble.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12714 on: January 12, 2018, 06:55:18 PM »
All Italian immigrants a century ago were not considered "white"  being able to blend in as white helps the assimilation process in ways related to our subconscious biases I mentioned in another post.  But I'm a firm believer in the stew theory and I think it accurately describes the American experience.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12715 on: January 12, 2018, 07:00:18 PM »
The big one is definitely language and deserves to be language.  A single language is a major unifying cultural force and a major business asset as well.  The EU is definitely hampered in terms of economic efficiency by having multiple official translations of things.  India went with English for its official business language for that reason, even though it isn't a native language of any of the various pre-colonial states that comprise India and it has 23 or so official languages.  That fluency has been a tremendous magnet for Western investment.

And again, it's the English speaking African nations from where immigrants often assimilate well.  Yes, that's the big one.   A community where there is resistance to learning the mainstream language will remain separatist.  Unfortunately this means they need "leaders" to speak for them and this produces an opportunity for unscrupulous politicians.

Quite frankly, except for citizens born in Puerto Rico (in exchange for the commonwealth prioritizing English in its public schools, as at least one governor has proposed) ballots should not be printed in any other language because English is a requirement for naturalization.   I'd advocate making it a requirement for permanent residence as well.


I'm ok with ballots in any language.   I don't think it hinders anything but it promotes voting.

Also, English is not required for citizenship tests.  There are exemptions.  I helped my grandparents become citizens and they were exempted from English.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 08:31:40 PM by freefourur »

Offline surfohio

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12716 on: January 12, 2018, 07:31:25 PM »
I don't think any group of immigrants has had trouble assimilating here as much as scot-irish hillbillies and they're white and speak English. If you need proof, just meet some of the older people in my family.

The book "Outliers" is an interesting read. And this is nearly on-topic since Trump's mom was Scottish.

1. Gladwell tells the story of a small town in Kentucky in the 1800s. Somehow, a feud started between two families in this small town. Fights broke out, and confrontation between these two families repeatedly ended in violence and death. It came to be expected—people here did not live in harmony; this was simply the way things were.

2. Feuds were not only the norm in this small town: there are records of similar feuds all over the state of Kentucky. “When one family fights with another, it’s a feud. When lots of families fight with one another in identical little towns up the same mountain range, it’s a pattern.” And the cause of this pattern is what sociologists call a “culture of honor.” The original inhabitants of these tows were descended from Scots-Irish herdsman, whose livelihood depended on their being feared and respected enough that no one would dare steal their livestock. The point is that the cultural tendencies of our ancestors have an effect on us (and likely our descendants).

Offline jonoh81

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12717 on: January 12, 2018, 07:39:49 PM »
The big one is definitely language and deserves to be language.  A single language is a major unifying cultural force and a major business asset as well.  The EU is definitely hampered in terms of economic efficiency by having multiple official translations of things.  India went with English for its official business language for that reason, even though it isn't a native language of any of the various pre-colonial states that comprise India and it has 23 or so official languages.  That fluency has been a tremendous magnet for Western investment.

And again, it's the English speaking African nations from where immigrants often assimilate well.  Yes, that's the big one.   A community where there is resistance to learning the mainstream language will remain separatist.  Unfortunately this means they need "leaders" to speak for them and this produces an opportunity for unscrupulous politicians.

Quite frankly, except for citizens born in Puerto Rico (in exchange for the commonwealth prioritizing English in its public schools, as at least one governor has proposed) ballots should not be printed in any other language because English is a requirement for naturalization.   I'd advocate making it a requirement for permanent residence as well.


Demanding English be the official language of the US is just creating a solution for a nonexistent problem.  Like voter fraud. 

Offline KJP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12718 on: January 12, 2018, 08:37:49 PM »
Two weeks ago a 26-year old soldier raced repeatedly into a burning Bronx apartment building, saving four people before he died in the flames. His name was Pvt. Emmanuel Mensah and he immigrated from Ghana, a country Donald Trump apparently thinks produces very subpar immigrants.
--Bill Kristol
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #12719 on: January 12, 2018, 08:40:13 PM »