Author Topic: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus  (Read 67488 times)

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Offline gottaplan

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1740 on: July 30, 2018, 01:09:39 PM »
^sounds like the bill was written almost deliberately for the Nucleus project. 

I think the Weston Warehouse project is dead last I talked to some folks in the know at the City

^Class A office space is beginning to dwindle, and will soon justify the building of a new office tower.  Maybe more of an office component and the scaling back of residential, if that's the hold-up.  Maybe a scaling back of everything if that works even better.  It would suck, but there's plenty of room left around downtown for a large skyscraper in the future.

The term "Class A" office space hardly applies to most of Cleveland's downtown buildings anymore.  E&Y tower, Key Tower and 200 Public Square are all that offer full service buildings with real amenities attached like a restaurant.  Even One Cleveland Center, or PNC or North Point which are nice buildings, are a B building in most other cities.

Cleveland has a LONG way to go in terms of attracting Class A tenants before it justifies building another new office tower.  Tenants are taking less & less space with flexible work schedules, open floor concepts, etc

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1741 on: July 30, 2018, 01:12:09 PM »
^sounds like the bill was written almost deliberately for the Nucleus project. 

I think the Weston Warehouse project is dead last I talked to some folks in the know at the City

^Class A office space is beginning to dwindle, and will soon justify the building of a new office tower.  Maybe more of an office component and the scaling back of residential, if that's the hold-up.  Maybe a scaling back of everything if that works even better.  It would suck, but there's plenty of room left around downtown for a large skyscraper in the future.

The term "Class A" office space hardly applies to most of Cleveland's downtown buildings anymore.  E&Y tower, Key Tower and 200 Public Square are all that offer full service buildings with real amenities attached like a restaurant.  Even One Cleveland Center, or PNC or North Point which are nice buildings, are a B building in most other cities.

Cleveland has a LONG way to go in terms of attracting Class A tenants before it justifies building another new office tower.  Tenants are taking less & less space with flexible work schedules, open floor concepts, etc

I would assume that the digitizing of archival records also reduces the office space needs of companies that used to need space for files, etc.

Offline jmc8651

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1742 on: July 30, 2018, 01:31:02 PM »
Also with more technology some businesses are splitting their offices between high rent Class A and more modest space. Baker Hostetler put their legal staff in Key Tower and back office in another cheaper building.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1743 on: July 30, 2018, 02:06:30 PM »
Also with more technology some businesses are splitting their offices between high rent Class A and more modest space. Baker Hostetler put their legal staff in Key Tower and back office in another cheaper building.

They segregate the Christmas party too lol

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1744 on: July 30, 2018, 02:28:59 PM »
Also with more technology some businesses are splitting their offices between high rent Class A and more modest space. Baker Hostetler put their legal staff in Key Tower and back office in another cheaper building.

They segregate the Christmas party too lol

that's effed up.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1745 on: July 30, 2018, 02:49:35 PM »
Those big firms are intensely stratified. 

Offline TBideon

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1746 on: July 30, 2018, 03:02:01 PM »
Jones Day used to do that too, at least with firm receptions. At least in 2002.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1747 on: July 30, 2018, 03:39:39 PM »
Can't even imagine that at my firm.

Nonetheless.... back to hopeless optimism about NuCLEus

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1748 on: July 30, 2018, 04:20:12 PM »
Does anyone know if HB 469 is retroactive whereas projects like the Beacon and The Lumen
qualify?

Offline CbusTransit

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1749 on: July 30, 2018, 05:10:58 PM »
Work is being done in the background on this. There is no reason to be hopeless about Nucleus.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1750 on: August 10, 2018, 01:13:12 AM »
Next date to pay attention to regarding HB469, the transformational tax credit, is Aug. 22. At 11:00 AM, the Senate Rules and Reference Committee could assign the bill to committee, or possibly in a rare move to the floor for a vote by the full Senate. There is a tentatively scheduled session of the full Senate scheduled that same day at 1:30 PM. The next Senate session is scheduled for late September.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 07:28:08 AM by KJP »
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Offline osu4brutus03

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1751 on: August 10, 2018, 07:14:38 AM »
Awesome

Offline Pugu

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1752 on: August 10, 2018, 08:49:37 AM »
Next date to pay attention to regarding HB469, the transformational tax credit, is Aug. 22. At 11:00 AM, the Senate Rules and Reference Committee could assign the bill to committee, or possibly in a rare move to the floor for a vote by the full Senate. There is a tentatively scheduled session of the full Senate scheduled that same day at 1:30 PM. The next Senate session is scheduled for late September.

what about the school board vote? Did they every vote? Wasn't it like Sept they were supposed to decide and then because the mayoral election in November, they delayed it--did they ever actually vote?

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1753 on: August 10, 2018, 09:05:22 AM »
This project is going to have to change its shape to adjust to the needs of Downtown at the moment. I don't see this being sustainable as originally planned.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1754 on: August 10, 2018, 10:05:35 AM »
what about the school board vote? Did they every vote? Wasn't it like Sept they were supposed to decide and then because the mayoral election in November, they delayed it--did they ever actually vote?

No vote. My guess is that Stark discovered the BOE wasn't supportive.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1755 on: August 10, 2018, 10:07:35 AM »
what about the school board vote? Did they every vote? Wasn't it like Sept they were supposed to decide and then because the mayoral election in November, they delayed it--did they ever actually vote?

No vote. My guess is that Stark discovered the BOE wasn't supportive.

BOE has no vision and no understanding of basic economics.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1756 on: August 10, 2018, 11:37:42 AM »
Neither does the mayor who appoints the BOE.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1757 on: August 10, 2018, 12:40:33 PM »
Next date to pay attention to regarding HB469, the transformational tax credit, is Aug. 22. At 11:00 AM, the Senate Rules and Reference Committee could assign the bill to committee, or possibly in a rare move to the floor for a vote by the full Senate. There is a tentatively scheduled session of the full Senate scheduled that same day at 1:30 PM. The next Senate session is scheduled for late September.

what about the school board vote? Did they every vote? Wasn't it like Sept they were supposed to decide and then because the mayoral election in November, they delayed it--did they ever actually vote?

My understanding is that all efforts seeking local subsidies (from the county, city and school board) were put on hold while Stark focused on this new tactic (the state tax credit legislation).  If the state bill is passed I am sure they will do the math and then go back to the local entities to see what they can get from them as well.

Originally, almost a year ago, the school board was to vote, but that was put on hold when they realized Stark was also meeting with the city and county and the board wanted in on those negotiations as well.  Again all the local stuff seems to have been put on hold for the time being (I am guessing) but I imagine there are still some type of informal discussions going on (or at least there should be)

My take from all the reporting and being an outsider reading between the lines is that Stark absolutely needs the state tax credit to make this deal work and that local subsidies alone are not going to be enough.

Offline Foraker

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1758 on: August 10, 2018, 01:32:43 PM »
My take from all the reporting and being an outsider reading between the lines is that Stark absolutely needs the state tax credit to make this deal work and that local subsidies alone are not going to be enough.

To me this is a sign that this project needs to be broken into smaller pieces.  Start with that parking garage and it will be generating (some) revenue as soon as it is complete!

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1759 on: August 10, 2018, 06:28:20 PM »
My take from all the reporting and being an outsider reading between the lines is that Stark absolutely needs the state tax credit to make this deal work and that local subsidies alone are not going to be enough.

To me this is a sign that this project needs to be broken into smaller pieces.  Start with that parking garage and it will be generating (some) revenue as soon as it is complete!


That's how the Beacon was built -- with a little recession mixed in there that caused the first property owner to sell the parking pedestal for pennies on the dollar. Suddenly completing the project became fiscally viable without going to the extremes that Playhouse Square did or what Stark is having to do in order to get Nucleus built.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1760 on: August 11, 2018, 04:17:37 PM »
My take from all the reporting and being an outsider reading between the lines is that Stark absolutely needs the state tax credit to make this deal work and that local subsidies alone are not going to be enough.

To me this is a sign that this project needs to be broken into smaller pieces.  Start with that parking garage and it will be generating (some) revenue as soon as it is complete!

You do that though and you take the chance of the full thing never getting built

Online StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1761 on: August 11, 2018, 07:26:07 PM »
My take from all the reporting and being an outsider reading between the lines is that Stark absolutely needs the state tax credit to make this deal work and that local subsidies alone are not going to be enough.

To me this is a sign that this project needs to be broken into smaller pieces.  Start with that parking garage and it will be generating (some) revenue as soon as it is complete!


Would the parking garage revenue even cover debt service? The developer of the garage under The Beacon lost it to foreclosure.

Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1762 on: August 11, 2018, 11:58:43 PM »
NuCleus is in a more marketable spot and actually more fortunate for being right in front of E. 4th and both the ol' Gund and Jacob's Field.

Offline ExPatClevGuy

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1763 on: August 12, 2018, 08:56:42 AM »
Yet the scale of the proposed garage is large, and it doesn't seem sustainable without the benefit of round-the-clock daily users from the proposed tower, hotel, office and retail.

Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1764 on: August 12, 2018, 09:00:07 PM »
This would be a great opportunity to spruice up E 4th a bit, it's a location that loathes parking.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1765 on: August 13, 2018, 09:23:13 AM »
NuCleus is in a more marketable spot and actually more fortunate for being right in front of E. 4th and both the ol' Gund and Jacob's Field.

I would agree if they would've kept the original "alley" idea, molded after Melbourne, AU. But the new concept doesn't really organically blend with E. 4th, and for that reason (other than the hotel and parking) I don't think they'd meld into one "destination"








Offline Firenze98

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1766 on: August 13, 2018, 02:10:17 PM »
NuCleus is in a more marketable spot and actually more fortunate for being right in front of E. 4th and both the ol' Gund and Jacob's Field.

I would agree if they would've kept the original "alley" idea, molded after Melbourne, AU. But the new concept doesn't really organically blend with E. 4th, and for that reason (other than the hotel and parking) I don't think they'd meld into one "destination"


Since when is the alley part of the project taken out?