Author Topic: Income Inequality  (Read 23605 times)

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Offline freefourur

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1350 on: September 14, 2018, 12:07:16 PM »
^ aren't some of these "cultural" issues caused by poverty itself? I think there are studies out there that show how being poor creates stress on individuals that actually changes how their brain functions. 

Offline 327

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1351 on: September 14, 2018, 12:14:39 PM »
Keeping yourself healthy is one way not just of making more of your income (because less will go to managing avoidable chronic health conditions), but it really does make a difference in career prospects and advancement.  I get that some people are physically disabled or suffer genetic handicaps that cannot in good conscience be held against them, but many more either create or compound their built-in issues with their own health and nutrition choices.

This is true.  When I was temping at the big corporate firms, I took orders from people who had no relevant experience but looked like underwear models.  Whatever it takes to make it rain.  People who are hot often rise beyond their competence.

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1352 on: September 14, 2018, 12:15:16 PM »
Many forms of stress change how the brain functions, poverty among them.  That doesn't obligate anyone to uncritically accept excuses for how any individual or group handles that stress.
Keeping yourself healthy is one way not just of making more of your income (because less will go to managing avoidable chronic health conditions), but it really does make a difference in career prospects and advancement.  I get that some people are physically disabled or suffer genetic handicaps that cannot in good conscience be held against them, but many more either create or compound their built-in issues with their own health and nutrition choices.

This is true.  When I was temping at the big corporate firms, I took orders from people who had no relevant experience but looked like underwear models.  Whatever it takes to make it rain.  People who are hot often rise beyond their competence.

Well, BigLaw is in a whole different league.  We're getting past talking about healthy eating at that point:

An associate at Paul Weiss (one of the top national law firms) departed to go in-house as president and general counsel at a laser hair removal/microdermabrasian/spider vein removal/etc. company in which he was already an early investor.  His departing memo to Paul Weiss in part thanked many of them for already being long-term clients.

https://abovethelaw.com/2012/10/departure-memo-of-the-day-heres-to-the-crazy-ones/

David Lat (who happens to be both a brilliant legal mind as well as a harsh and shameless gay law blogger) has gone to town on some firms who might as well ask associate applicants to put their measurements, diet, and exercise habits on their resumes, including during the huge layoffs of 2009:

https://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/davis-polks-website-makeover-now-with-100-percent-way-more-hotties/
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 12:27:01 PM by Gramarye »

Offline freefourur

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1353 on: September 14, 2018, 12:20:06 PM »
Many forms of stress change how the brain functions, poverty among them.  That doesn't obligate anyone to uncritically accept excuses for how any individual or group handles that stress.

Most of those forms of stress tend to cause issues in people in general. This is not excusing people but trying to have a better understanding of them so you can create the proper solutions.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1354 on: September 14, 2018, 12:33:52 PM »
The Food Pyramid we were taught in school was just plain wrong.  Plus, the dairy industry pushed hard to get milk in schools 5 lunches per week.  Much of the rest of school lunches are not healthy, and no doubt Big Food lobbied to make it that way. 

My grade school had absolutely nothing healthy, ever.  Every Monday was chicken nuggets boneless wings.  Pizza on Wednesday AND Friday.  Tuesday and Thursday alternated between Sloppy Joe, Grilled Cheese, "Fish" sandwhich, and the famous London Broil.  Twice a month, we had "3-Way/Coney" day, on a Tuesday or Thursday.       
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 02:24:41 PM by jmecklenborg »

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1355 on: September 14, 2018, 12:40:25 PM »
I really resented still having to drink milk being 19 years old in high school.

Offline 327

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1356 on: September 14, 2018, 12:47:36 PM »
These firms usually have a less attractive person who comes in and solves the cases.  Plus the temps of course.  And I know this model prevails in more fields than just law.  We even judge musicians by their looks these days.  While I don't want to malign the importance of eating your vegetables, it's probably not wise to put sexy 25-year-olds in charge of everything.

Offline thebillshark

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1357 on: September 14, 2018, 01:22:56 PM »
The Food Pyramid we were taught in school was just plain wrong.  Plus, the dairy industry pushed hard to get milk in schools 5 lunches per week.  Much of the rest of school lunches are not healthy, and no doubt Big Food lobbied to make it that way. 

My grade school had absolutely nothing healthy, ever.  Every Monday was chicken nuggets boneless wings.  Pizza on Wednesday AND Friday.  Tuesday and Thursday alternated between Sloppy Joe, Grilled Cheese, "Fish" sandwhich, and the famous London Broil.   

Donít forget the pizzaburgers

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1358 on: September 14, 2018, 01:34:52 PM »
These firms usually have a less attractive person who comes in and solves the cases.  Plus the temps of course.  And I know this model prevails in more fields than just law.  We even judge musicians by their looks these days.  While I don't want to malign the importance of eating your vegetables, it's probably not wise to put sexy 25-year-olds in charge of everything.

Definitely not.  But even older executives often tend to try to stay in shape ...



... if you look at most Fortune 500 boardrooms and C-suites, you'll generally find people that have made at least reasonable efforts to take care of themselves over the long term (though there are certainly exceptions ... a certain New York real estate CEO and reality TV host who switched careers in semi-retirement is well known to have much worse diet and exercise habits than his predecessors in his current position).

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1359 on: September 14, 2018, 01:50:05 PM »
I grew up very near Appalachian Ohio, too (Licking County isn't considered Appalachia but Muskingum, next county over, is).  Getting healthy food was not an economic hardship that would be beyond the financial capabilities of even most of the poor people there.  Fruits and vegetables are not that expensive, including when canned or frozen to last longer.

New Albany, Granville, and Reynoldsburg are in Licking County.  Those are straight up suburban, the opposite of Appalachian.  So it really depends on what part of Licking County you grew up in, but I have a feeling you're stretching this one for your benefit.

Heh.  I didn't grow up in New Albany, and back when I was there, New Albany was not like it is now.

That said, no, I'm not suggesting Kirkersville was like the rougher parts of Adams County.  But it sure as heck wasn't Granville or modern New Albany.  Per the 2000 census, men's median income in the town was about $35k, women's about $25k.  Adams County might well be lower (and certain communities within it I'm sure are).  But I doubt it would be by that much.

Per estimates that are way more recent:

Quote
Estimated median household income in 2016: $53,320 (it was $45,833 in 2000)
Kirkersville:$53,320
OH:$52,334

Estimated per capita income in 2016: $29,910 (it was $16,932 in 2000)

The median household income is actually more than it is for the entire state.

An estimated 13.4% of the population live below the poverty line, compared to 15.4% of the state.
Very Stable Genius

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1360 on: September 14, 2018, 02:12:27 PM »
Must be all that drag racing and autocross tourism from the track

Offline 327

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1361 on: September 14, 2018, 02:23:02 PM »
... if you look at most Fortune 500 boardrooms and C-suites, you'll generally find people that have made at least reasonable efforts to take care of themselves over the long term (though there are certainly exceptions ... a certain New York real estate CEO and reality TV host who switched careers in semi-retirement is well known to have much worse diet and exercise habits than his predecessors in his current position).

I look in those rooms and see people whose cups runneth over with time and resources for personal improvement.  Whose cups have runneth over since birth.  Bill Clinton was notably out of shape during his rise from poverty, and look what wealth has done for his figure.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1362 on: September 14, 2018, 02:26:01 PM »
Don’t forget the pizzaburgers

Ah yes.  I forgot that we went to the same grade school.  We also had orange drink in a carton, which was basically just tang, I think. 

Offline freefourur

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1363 on: September 14, 2018, 02:38:35 PM »
These firms usually have a less attractive person who comes in and solves the cases.  Plus the temps of course.  And I know this model prevails in more fields than just law.  We even judge musicians by their looks these days.  While I don't want to malign the importance of eating your vegetables, it's probably not wise to put sexy 25-year-olds in charge of everything.

Definitely not.  But even older executives often tend to try to stay in shape ...



... if you look at most Fortune 500 boardrooms and C-suites, you'll generally find people that have made at least reasonable efforts to take care of themselves over the long term (though there are certainly exceptions ... a certain New York real estate CEO and reality TV host who switched careers in semi-retirement is well known to have much worse diet and exercise habits than his predecessors in his current position).

Have these people always taken care of themselves or have they taken care of themselves since they are wealthy and have resources for personal trainers, dietitians, etc.  You may be mistaking correlation and causation.

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1364 on: September 14, 2018, 02:39:28 PM »
... if you look at most Fortune 500 boardrooms and C-suites, you'll generally find people that have made at least reasonable efforts to take care of themselves over the long term (though there are certainly exceptions ... a certain New York real estate CEO and reality TV host who switched careers in semi-retirement is well known to have much worse diet and exercise habits than his predecessors in his current position).

I look in those rooms and see people whose cups runneth over with time and resources for personal improvement.  Whose cups have runneth over since birth.  Bill Clinton was notably out of shape during his rise from poverty, and look what wealth has done for his figure.

I guarantee you that most of those people do not have cups that runneth over with time.  Resources, quite possibly.  Not time.  There are a few lucky people who just get to sit on compensated boards and make a good gig out of it, but those are rare.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1365 on: September 14, 2018, 02:45:33 PM »
Do many board positions pay more that $5,000 a year? Those seats aren't about the compensation.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1366 on: September 14, 2018, 02:47:05 PM »
Former Cincinnati Mayor Charlie Luken was paid $300k per year to sit on the Ohio Casino Board, which has one meeting per month, at most. 


Offline Gramarye

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1367 on: September 14, 2018, 03:15:39 PM »
Do many board positions pay more that $5,000 a year?

At that level?  Yes.  Much more.

Not for a typical local nonprofit or anything like that, though.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1368 on: September 14, 2018, 07:12:58 PM »
You can read about the effects of hiking at high altitude and think that you won't suffer any of the symptoms.  You read about people taking unnecessary risks, preposterous short-cuts, etc., while hiking at 12,000+ feet, and think you won't do it.  Then you go there and you do all that stuff.  You realize you aren't special. 

Being impoverished is the same thing.  It's easy as a person raised in a relatively stable environment to wag your finger.  So many people think they understand poor people because they worked in a restaurant in high school or whatever and the poor worker were lazy, wasted money on lottery tickets, etc.  If you were poor you'd do the exact same thing. 

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1369 on: September 14, 2018, 10:23:30 PM »
"You would cry too if it happened to you"

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1370 on: September 18, 2018, 07:44:22 PM »
Nice write-up on Puerto Rico's attempt to lure the wealthy off the mainland:
https://www.gq.com/story/how-puerto-rico-became-tax-haven-for-super-rich

Offline ck

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1371 on: September 19, 2018, 12:13:44 AM »
I remain convinced that eating healthy is possible even on a poverty budget, particularly in a developed area (even if a depressed one, e.g., Youngstown) that still has reasonable cost of living.  Even with respect to those in far-flung rural counties, again, unless we're talking about those without access to refrigeration and freezing, while fresh produce may be hard to keep for the entire interval between shopping trips, it's still possible to have a fairly healthy diet with a lot of canned and frozen foods.  (Of course fresh is better, I'm not arguing that, but I'll definitely argue that canned or frozen produce still allows for preparing healthier foods at home, and at the same or lower cost, than a typical fast food meal.)

I think taestell's explanation is closer to the heart of the matter, and I'm less forgiving than he is of those kinds of self-destructive decisions.  No amount of reduction of income inequality would plausibly solve that cultural issue.  Also, this relationship is probably not entirely one-way.  Keeping yourself healthy is one way not just of making more of your income (because less will go to managing avoidable chronic health conditions), but it really does make a difference in career prospects and advancement.  I get that some people are physically disabled or suffer genetic handicaps that cannot in good conscience be held against them, but many more either create or compound their built-in issues with their own health and nutrition choices.

I agree, you can absolutely eat healthy on a limited budget.  But we are bombarded with advertisements for the profitable crappy food, and yes, we're human and susceptible to advertising.  Advertisers know they will get a certain portion of people to respond favorably - so do those who respond really have a choice?  We, as a society, take active measures to tempt us into these self-destructive actions and then we also blame those who respond to it?  They not only are making those advertisers and companies that are giving us the crap profitable, they are also  taxing our healthcare system and hurting their own productivity/wellness.  Sure, blame them in the sense that we all allegedly have complete freedom of choice, but that doesn't really help because we aren't attacking the root of the problem which is that humans will be human and we will respond to advertising.  Advertisers have gotten better over time and can manipulate a portion of the population with ease.  It's hard for me to put the blame on the susceptible here when it's obvious we encourage the behavior.  We all know the easiest meal is probably the least healthy - that sounds kind of backwards doesn't it?  Until the easiest and most affordable foods are the healthiest, it doesn't seem right to blame those that get victimized by it.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Income Inequality
« Reply #1372 on: September 19, 2018, 01:13:56 AM »
Gramarye thinks advertising, salesmanship, marketing, statistical analysis and PR are ineffective despite the fact that companies have determined that spending billions of dollars and millions of hours of brainpower on them has empirically proven to work.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 01:16:08 AM by GCrites80s »