Author Topic: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News  (Read 6944 times)

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Offline bendixondavis

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #150 on: August 02, 2014, 02:09:19 PM »
Oh, I noticed the sidewalks were kind of weird, but the last time I went by they didn't have trees.  That does sound weird all around, but traffic doesn't really go fast through any part of Montgomery through Norwood, so hopefully it won't be too bad.

Offline jdm00

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #151 on: August 03, 2014, 06:49:46 PM »
The sidewalk configuration along Montgomery is very peculiar though.  There's a small, like maybe 3 or 4 foot sidewalk along the curb with utility poles rammed into it, then a berm with lots of trees, bushes, and ornamental grasses, then another wider sidewalk higher up that sort of roller coasters down to the north to be level with all the storefronts.  Aside from the trees hiding the storefronts and signs from the street, it's a surprisingly anti-urban pattern that treats Montgomery as a car sewer to be retreated from.  If per chance they allow street parking, it might help a little bit, but my guess is they won't.

I love XU, but I am not surprised by this.  The XU campus has always been (in my view) about making it into a bubble.  It's always felt like a suburban-type of college campus, despite its obvious urban location. 

Offline dmerkow

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #152 on: August 11, 2014, 03:32:21 PM »
Xavier was a suburban campus that the city caught up to and passed. When the Xs (St.X and XU) were still downtown, this was the first of two moves out of town. St. X left later for even farther north.

Offline seicer

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #153 on: August 11, 2014, 03:49:47 PM »
Xavier was developed around Victory Parkway. There is a great book that I came across a while back when I worked up there that explained the methodology of location selection and it's orientation towards the parkway. At the time, Xavier was on the edge of the city with a lot of room to grow. All buildings essentially oriented inward.

By the 1960's, that plan had to open up. Alter Hall was one of the first major buildings built out of the parkway valley. It required students to cross Herald, which was open at the time. It was later closed off to the extent that it is today - and the main reason the stub remains off of Dana is for fire access and for that one house that stubbornly remained for years.

There are a lot of great pictures in the archives. Silly things like houses in the court yards of various campus buildings were allowed to remain (like here: http://goo.gl/maps/jPpBj) that were privately owned. Jesuits lived in them in later years, and then they became university offices. Schott Hall housed all of the Jesuits when that was built later on, and then it too became offices when the number of Jesuits declined (age, non-renewal, etc.).

It's not that Xavier didn't open up to Evanston or North Avondale - it just was that the city grew up around it.

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #154 on: August 17, 2014, 12:21:12 PM »
The sidewalk configuration along Montgomery is very peculiar though.  There's a small, like maybe 3 or 4 foot sidewalk along the curb with utility poles rammed into it, then a berm with lots of trees, bushes, and ornamental grasses, then another wider sidewalk higher up that sort of roller coasters down to the north to be level with all the storefronts.  Aside from the trees hiding the storefronts and signs from the street, it's a surprisingly anti-urban pattern that treats Montgomery as a car sewer to be retreated from.  If per chance they allow street parking, it might help a little bit, but my guess is they won't.

I love XU, but I am not surprised by this.  The XU campus has always been (in my view) about making it into a bubble.  It's always felt like a suburban-type of college campus, despite its obvious urban location. 

I went by there today and was surprised to see parking meters have been installed along the west side of Montgomery from Cleneay to the railroad tracks.  They might go to Dana but I honestly don't recall.  Of course I suspect parking won't be allowed from 7-9AM and 4-6PM, but it's a good move anyway. 

Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #155 on: November 02, 2016, 10:41:26 PM »
Xavier upgrades Cintas Center in time for promising season



Xavier University has made some renovations to enhance the fan experience in time for a season filled with high expectations, but itís also gearing up for even bigger changes next year.

Xavier is in the midst of a $30 million upgrade of its 16-year-old Cintas Center on-campus home. Athletic Director Greg Christopher has ramped up the expected budget for the eight-year project launched more than a year ago.

More below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/11/02/xavier-upgrades-cintas-center-in-time-for.html
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Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #156 on: February 13, 2018, 06:35:59 PM »
XU basketball now ranked #4 and UC is ranked #5. 

Offline jdm00

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #157 on: July 06, 2018, 08:02:09 AM »
The Xavier website has a nice rundown of work currently underway on campus:

https://www.xavier.edu/now/Summer-Campus-Construction-Projects.xm

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #158 on: July 06, 2018, 02:16:53 PM »
^ So, basically they are demolishing a bunch of bungalows and replacing them with 'green space'. There's no reason those houses on Dana couldn't have been renovated for student or faculty housing, but instead, Xavier is choosing to knock them down so they can have more of a "campus in a park" environment. The only positive I see in that update is the construction of the new rec center, but otherwise, it seems like Xavier is making some really dumb moves. There is a ton of green space around XU, but please, knock down historic housing to create more lawns that no one will ever use. Ugh.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #159 on: July 06, 2018, 02:20:55 PM »
Do you even need those greens anymore with everyone looking at their phone all the time?

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #160 on: July 06, 2018, 02:31:53 PM »
XU moving out of DT Cincinnati back in 1920 or so was a disaster for the university and for DT Cincinnati.  Its suburban campus has always been amazingly mediocre.  But that exact same institution, had it stayed in DT Cincinnati, would have helped mitigate its otherwise inevitable decline. 

Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #161 on: July 06, 2018, 03:55:37 PM »
XU moving out of DT Cincinnati back in 1920 or so was a disaster for the university and for DT Cincinnati.  Its suburban campus has always been amazingly mediocre.  But that exact same institution, had it stayed in DT Cincinnati, would have helped mitigate its otherwise inevitable decline. 
Not sure what "decline" you're referring to. Xavier has been doing well, especially over the last decade or so. I, personally, would love if Cincinnati had a university in downtown, but that's just my personal preference. UC also started downtown. I don't fault either Xavier or UC for moving to create more space, and I certainly don't have the confidence to know if either would've been "more successful" (however you want to define it) had they chosen to stay downtown.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #162 on: July 06, 2018, 04:11:05 PM »
Delete the basketball team and Cintas Center from the equation and XU has a presence in Cincinnati on par with the College of Mt. St. Joseph, in other words it's completely invisible.  If it had stayed downtown, we would have had 1,000-2,000 students living in and near downtown that would have been a stabilizing force when DT Cincinnati flirted with Detroit-type abandonment in the late 1990s.  That whole time we would have had some students renting in Over-the-Rhine instead of Norwood. 

Still, even today the rental market in Evanston, Avondale, and Norwood for XU students is quite weak. 

Offline carnevalem

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #163 on: July 07, 2018, 11:53:47 AM »
Instead of tearing down those houses, Xavier should copy UD's Ghetto strategy and buy up the whole neighborhood, rehab it, and rent it to upperclassmen. It works as a spectacular recruiting tool for UD and stabilizes the surrounding area. Push back to further tuition increases is forcing schools to compete more on housing to justify higher prices.
Heck they could even build a Ghetto-size neighborhood entirely from scratch on the east Cintas lot and the Dollar General lot.

Online 1400 Sycamore

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #164 on: July 07, 2018, 01:29:14 PM »
UD is an OK school. Not well rated and the campus is a mess. A complete dog's breakfast.  But, it is uniquely a Marianist University and there aren't many of them anywhere.

Xavier is one of the top Jesuit Universities and has a very small local student population. I recall Fr. Graham tossing out a statistic of 91% out of state students. And, the campus is now quite lovely. They compete against classic Ivy style campuses and the notion of doing anything to integrate the ghetto is a non starter. Xavier did its civic duty in turning a brownfield abandoned industrial site into campus amenities. I don't think they deserve to have to do any more.

Offline carnevalem

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #165 on: July 07, 2018, 01:54:03 PM »
I've always considered UD and Xavier be to more or less in the same academic tier. US News & Report has UD ranked as #124 in the National University rankings, tied with Colorado State and Arizona. Xavier is listed as #5 in Regional Universities Midwest, behind Valparaiso at 4 and ahead of John Carroll at 6. I'm not sure how to compare between the different rankings. They're both listed in the "Best Value" list with Xavier at #22 and UD at #73. To me it's pretty much a wash, but you could probably make an argument either way. I would consider the "top Jesuit universities" to be Georgetown (#20 USNR National Ranking), Boston College (#32 National), and maybe Villanova (#46 National).

Personally I prefer Dayton's campus to Xavier's, but they're both nice. I suppose it comes down to personal taste.

Offline carnevalem

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #166 on: July 07, 2018, 02:04:50 PM »
I recall Fr. Graham tossing out a statistic of 91% out of state students.


Current out of state totals for Xavier (source: https://www.xavier.edu/institutional-research/institutional-research/Enrollment.cfm)
Undergrad: 55%
Grad: 29%
Total: 47%


Pretty impressive numbers, and more than I realized.

Online 1400 Sycamore

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #167 on: July 07, 2018, 09:55:47 PM »
I have confirmed that 55% number. Sorry, my mistake. Wife recalls the statistic differently.

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #168 on: July 09, 2018, 08:39:29 AM »
Delete the basketball team and Cintas Center from the equation and XU has a presence in Cincinnati on par with the College of Mt. St. Joseph, in other words it's completely invisible.  If it had stayed downtown, we would have had 1,000-2,000 students living in and near downtown that would have been a stabilizing force when DT Cincinnati flirted with Detroit-type abandonment in the late 1990s.  That whole time we would have had some students renting in Over-the-Rhine instead of Norwood. 

Still, even today the rental market in Evanston, Avondale, and Norwood for XU students is quite weak. 
Yeah just take out one of the countries top 25 basketball programs, that's not a big deal at all.  O and lets also throw out one of the nicer on campus arenas in the country, one that not only serves men's and women's sports at Xavier but is also used by most of the cities high schools for sports and graduations.   

Offline jdm00

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #169 on: July 09, 2018, 09:46:12 AM »
Xavier's done a fantastic job with the campus.  As a graduate of both Xavier and UC, I prefer Xavier's campus feeling of green space and continuity to UC's urban starchitecture approach (though I understand that's a matter of taste, and others prefer UC). 

Xavier and UD are pretty comparable schools--the "national vs. regional" university thing is just a matter of classification, and it does make it very hard to figure out where everyone "fits in" in the rankings.  For example, Villanova (listed up thread) was traditionally included in the "Regional Universities -- East" listings until a year or two ago; it was moved over to the national universities, where it immediately went into the top 50.  I think if you look at things like test scores, etc., Xavier does pretty well.  And it's become more and more diverse through the years, to the point that it's student body population is now more diverse than many state schools.

One minor quibble--Villanova is not a Jesuit school; I forget what order it is (maybe Vincentian?).  The top 2 Jesuit schools, without any doubt, are Georgetown and Boston College. 

Online 1400 Sycamore

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #170 on: July 09, 2018, 05:42:05 PM »
Not to belbor the point, but there are Jesuit schools and there are "Jesuit" schools. Georgetown does everything they can not to look, act, or teach like a Jesuit school. They are a good school for sure, but barely Jesuit. Xavier is at the heart of the Jesuit education philosophy. I don't know about Boston College, but I'd suspect the same.

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #171 on: July 09, 2018, 05:52:32 PM »
Xavier is still pretty tiny, and is about half the total size of University of Dayton. I think comparison between the schools is superficial at best, and probably stems from the basketball rivalry of the two schools. Dayton has a much larger research presence, an engineering school, law school, etc. I think it's great that XU has grown its profile in recent years, but it still has such a small impact on Cincinnati. There is no real student neighborhood with the amenities (bars, restaurants, coffee shops, retail outlets) one would associate with a major university. The campus is basically one linear stretch, and is very insular with nothing much to see from the street. I'm glad it exists in Cincinnati, but I wish it would be more like a UD and less like a Mount St. Joe.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #172 on: July 09, 2018, 06:37:41 PM »
Yeah UD's student neighborhood has been notorious for decades.  I played in a band at a UD house party when I was in college and that party ranked as the high point of that particular band, despite having some of our equipment stolen, including the fog machine.  XU has no party culture to speak of and only one sad little bar, Dana Gardens.  Has anyone heard of a band playing a house party in Norwood?  No. 

The wildest thing that has ever happened at XU was the BASF explosion, which I'll never forget seeing from 471 riding back from Coney Island.  It looked like a Soviet ICBM strike with a black cloud of smoke rising thousands of feet into the air.  Much more impressive than that propane tank explosion at the zoo back in 1997. 

Offline jdm00

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #173 on: July 10, 2018, 09:47:02 AM »
Well, to be fair, UD also doesn't have a 40,000 student research school 1.5 miles away from it, either, so it's kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison.  I think if you check out the benchmarking and the student populations, you will see that there's a lot in common between the schools. 

As for the party culture, I can only speak for my times as a student, but there was definitely plenty of social activity going on--multiple house parties in Norwood and North Avondale every weekend night, etc.   Every Xavier student worth their salt did the Montgomery Mile, starting at Sorrento's on the north end of Norwood and hitting every bar on the way. 

And as for Dana's--hey, it's no Uncle Woody's I guess (actually, it's at least as nice as that), but it's undeniably a Xavier thing.  I was sad to see The Woods go, too.  That was a fun spot. 

But I'm sure others who never went to Xavier know far more about the Xavier scene than alumni. 

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #174 on: July 10, 2018, 12:12:53 PM »
The party/bar scene for UC is weak for such a large university.  100+ people spilling out of a single house, let alone coordinated effort amongst neighbors is a rare sight in Clifton.  The only really independent college bars are Uncle Woody's and Mac's.  The Mad Frog is currently under sleazy Russian ownership that does not cater to college students, and Short Vine is all tarted up now. 

Neither Cincinnati school can compete with UD for campus culture, and UD is not on the level of OU.  People can laugh all they want but party school alums have a ton of loyalty to their schools.  My dad is retiring and still gets together with his UD housemates 2-3x per year. 

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #175 on: July 10, 2018, 12:48:58 PM »
^ That is most definitely true. I used to sneak up to visit friends at UD when I was in high school, and I managed to make it up a few times in college, too. It's a pretty crazy environment there, and you can reliably count on just going from party to party all throughout the neighborhood, basically all night. UC does have a little party neighborhood kind of over where the frat houses are, and yeah there are a few bars, but its campus party scene is pretty weak, too, especially compared to OU and UD. Xavier, however, literally has like zero nightlife. I had plenty of friends who went to Xavier, and they all commented that it was super boring around campus, so they tended to go out other places in the city. With Uber and Lyft, it does make it much easier to get around. No more waiting on a sketchy corner in Norwood for some equally sketchy cab to pick you up an hour and a half after you called.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #176 on: July 10, 2018, 12:59:47 PM »
College is way more about nerd stuff now

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #177 on: July 10, 2018, 01:02:25 PM »
All the UC and XU kids go out to the banks, OTR and Mt Adams (though Mt Adams has died down with the other two surging in recent years).  Unless there's something going on on campus or they're underage with a shitty fake they're going out downtown most of the time.  That's the benefit of going to college in an actual city vs Athens, Dayton or Oxford.  Same thing goes on at OSU in Columbus.  When you're young it's all house parties and trying to get into campus bars.  Once you hit 21 or get a good fake you go out way more often in Short North. 

Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #178 on: July 10, 2018, 01:38:47 PM »
All the UC and XU kids go out to the banks, OTR and Mt Adams (though Mt Adams has died down with the other two surging in recent years).  Unless there's something going on on campus or they're underage with a shitty fake they're going out downtown most of the time.  That's the benefit of going to college in an actual city vs Athens, Dayton or Oxford.  Same thing goes on at OSU in Columbus.  When you're young it's all house parties and trying to get into campus bars.  Once you hit 21 or get a good fake you go out way more often in Short North. 

I can't speak for UC or Xavier but I CAN speak for OSU.  Ohio State college kids do not go to the Short North, even when they are over 21.  7th Street is as far south as your typical OSU student goes and it is VERY much like UD where it's off-campus party-centric (aka any street east of High or north of Lane) + college strip for bars (High and Brown, respectively).  I'd argue the North Market area is more college-centric than the Short North.  Jake is correct and it has nothing to do with an "actual city."  "Actual cities" also have college ghettos that are vibrant (Dinkytown, Westwood, Cambridge/Somerville, Guadelupe, University Hill, etc).  Using OTR and Mt. Adams is a cop-out, in all honesty.
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Offline cbussoccer

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Re: Cincinnati: Xavier University: Development and News
« Reply #179 on: July 10, 2018, 01:52:27 PM »
All the UC and XU kids go out to the banks, OTR and Mt Adams (though Mt Adams has died down with the other two surging in recent years).  Unless there's something going on on campus or they're underage with a shitty fake they're going out downtown most of the time.  That's the benefit of going to college in an actual city vs Athens, Dayton or Oxford.  Same thing goes on at OSU in Columbus.  When you're young it's all house parties and trying to get into campus bars.  Once you hit 21 or get a good fake you go out way more often in Short North. 

I can't speak for UC or Xavier but I CAN speak for OSU.  Ohio State college kids do not go to the Short North, even when they are over 21.  7th Street is as far south as your typical OSU student goes and it is VERY much like UD where it's off-campus party-centric (aka any street east of High or north of Lane) + college strip for bars (High and Brown, respectively).  I'd argue the North Market area is more college-centric than the Short North.  Jake is correct and it has nothing to do with an "actual city."  "Actual cities" also have college ghettos that are vibrant (Dinkytown, Westwood, Cambridge/Somerville, Guadelupe, University Hill, etc).  Using OTR and Mt. Adams is a cop-out, in all honesty.

I think you are pretty much spot on about OSU students, at least during the school year. I do think there are a decent number college students that end up in the Short North from surrounding schools like Capital and ODU. Park Street has historically sucked many of the college kids from the Short North that weren't up near campus, so it will be interesting to see what happens with some of the Park Street bars closing down.