Author Topic: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News  (Read 73179 times)

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Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3720 on: July 02, 2018, 11:57:03 PM »
Apperantly 15th and vine renderings have already been done and the otr community council has already reviewed them..hopefully we will see the rendering in the hcb packet soon.

Offline JoeHarmon

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3721 on: July 03, 2018, 09:16:38 AM »
Are you referring to the Kroger's Site, or the two historic buildings they are turning into Office space?

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3722 on: July 03, 2018, 09:49:40 AM »
Are you referring to the Kroger's Site, or the two historic buildings they are turning into Office space?

For 1505 - 1507 Vine...opposite side from Kroger. The large lot next to the recently renovated building with the blue bay windows.

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3723 on: July 03, 2018, 12:53:42 PM »
3cdc has officially announced they have begun work today on the Meiner and Behleb block of buildings by Kroger. They are starting to unbrick the windows as we speak.

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3724 on: July 06, 2018, 08:39:37 PM »
Spaces leases office at 15th & Vine - Cincinnati Business Courier

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/07/06/exclusive-huge-coworking-space-coming-to-over-the.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search

They will be leasing the entire upper floor from what I understand.

Also, long time Hyde Park retailor, world of beads, is moving to 1429 Vine st.

3cdc leasing team is simply killing it right now.

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3725 on: July 09, 2018, 10:28:18 AM »
Can anyone clarify this. As pointed out before, 3cdc is planning to build a parking garage behind (the eventual demolished) Kroger site on Vine, facing walnut st.

My question is, isnít that land owned by the Wades? Does this mean they sold some of their parcels to 3cdc?

Or maybe Iím confusing all of this, and this wonít actually occupy the walnut parcel, but rather just occupy where that red warehouse looking structure is...

Offline savadams13

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3726 on: July 09, 2018, 11:26:21 AM »
Can anyone clarify this. As pointed out before, 3cdc is planning to build a parking garage behind (the eventual demolished) Kroger site on Vine, facing walnut st.

My question is, isnít that land owned by the Wades? Does this mean they sold some of their parcels to 3cdc?

Or maybe Iím confusing all of this, and this wonít actually occupy the walnut parcel, but rather just occupy where that red warehouse looking structure is...

The plan is all the existing structures that belong to Kroger on Vine St. will be sold to 3CDC for $1. These structures will be torn down and made into the parking garage. I am sure there are a couple plots surround the grocery and warehouse building that Kroger doesnt own but that wont hinder the plans for a new parking structure.

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3727 on: July 11, 2018, 06:22:28 PM »
I noticed earlier today by Vine St, that the krukemeyer building ground floor is being used for the construction HQ for the new 15th and vine project. I also noticed construction vehicles on the gravel lot as well. It seems like 3cdc is eager to get this infill project off the ground fast.

Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3728 on: July 23, 2018, 08:25:04 PM »
3CDCís next wave of OTR office development

With the entire office space at 15th & Vine now leased, Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. is gearing up for its next phase of office development in Over-the-Rhine.

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/07/23/exclusive-3cdc-s-next-wave-of-otr-office.html

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Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3729 on: July 24, 2018, 10:25:53 AM »
Anybody know if the Behlen project includes any of the buildings directly south of 1434 Vine? That article mentions 1432, but the 3CDC website doesn't show anything about 1432 Vine: https://www.3cdc.org/tenancy/behlen-2/

3CDC owns all of the properties from 1428-1434 Vine... so I'm sure they'll all eventually get renovated, just not sure if those three smaller buildings are going to be a part of this phase. Perhaps they'll wait on those smaller buildings until the Kroger site is ready for redevelopment. As has been pointed out many times, what makes OTR so charming are all of the *small* storefronts that add granularity, in a way that megablock developments can't. 1428, 1430, and 1432 are all 20' wide, so adding three more 20' wide storefronts will be great (whenever 3CDC gets to them).

Offline IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3730 on: July 24, 2018, 11:22:37 AM »
I always assumed it was including those buildings based on the renderings but not certain if that's the case or not.

I am sure we can all find out soon when they start working on them. Excited for this corner to start moving forward and will be really excited when they start working on the Kroger site.

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3731 on: July 24, 2018, 11:30:52 AM »
I have a feeling they included the future fixed up versions of those other buildings in the rendering just so this building looked better in marketing information.

Edit: They also only include the corner building in their plans. So it's likely the other buildings are a separate future project.

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3732 on: July 24, 2018, 12:21:27 PM »
It might be better for marketing on paper, but I can't imagine how enthused any potential office tenenants will be when they are situated on the un-gentrified side of vine.

It might be a tough sell until those remaining clusters are redeveloped along with the Kroger site.

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3733 on: July 24, 2018, 12:30:00 PM »
I really doubt it'll be a touch sell. This is directly across the street from the 15th and vine office which had no issue leasing its space.

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3734 on: July 24, 2018, 12:51:45 PM »
By the time these office spaces open 3CDC will be able to tell potential lessors that the Kroger building is going to be closed and knocked down within a year of when you'd move in. 

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3735 on: July 24, 2018, 12:52:27 PM »
Anyone else feel like 3CDC is building a bit too much office these days? I know they want office workers to create day time vibrancy, but I feel like OTR first and foremost needs to be a residential neighborhood. I understand that companies find the small footprint, historic building thing attractive, but it just seems odd to put so much emphasis on office when the CBD is right next door. The Meiners building looks like it could have been converted to some very cool housing units.

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3736 on: July 24, 2018, 01:18:22 PM »
Anyone else feel like 3CDC is building a bit too much office these days? I know they want office workers to create day time vibrancy, but I feel like OTR first and foremost needs to be a residential neighborhood. I understand that companies find the small footprint, historic building thing attractive, but it just seems odd to put so much emphasis on office when the CBD is right next door. The Meiners building looks like it could have been converted to some very cool housing units.

Yeah I'm having similar concerns. At the same time though, OTR is a large neighborhood. It's not like short north in Columbus, where it's predominately 1 major street. That said, you create day time activity...but what about afternoon and night time activity as well? My dream vision for OTR would it for be a neighborhood that's hopping 24/7 and not just predominantly on Friday and Saturday's  when suburban folks are off from work.

North of Liberty of Vine St is largely intact and hasn't seen much of the wrecking ball to it's historic stock, and have some cool buildings that will hopefully be converted into residential in the near future.

Also, 3cdc will eventually rehab the Columbia Building on Walnut to residential, which should fit a nice number of residential units..and of course Fortus efforts on Elm and Liberty, and eventually Logan St should increase the density as well. So I'm not overly concerned.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 01:24:24 PM by troeros »

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3737 on: July 24, 2018, 01:33:21 PM »
I think it's a good thing. You can't find this scale of Class A office space downtown, so it diversifies the office market and adds a significant daytime population to the neighborhood.

Although I selfishly wanted a loft in the Meiners building I think it's a really good thing to have a diverse mix of uses and more importantly diversify the times of day those uses occur.

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3738 on: July 24, 2018, 01:52:48 PM »
3CDC spent 10+ years doing nothing but residential units above ground floor retail.  Only recently has the neighborhood seen demand for offices so now they're building those, and what the do put on the market are in pretty small  square footage.  We'll see what they do with the Kroger land but I have a feeling they're going to do a mixture of garage, office and residential for that block.  There are other development companies and single building owners who are continuing to put out more residential units.  Shit pretty much the entirety of North of Liberty still needs to be developed.  So no I don't think 3CDC is doing too much office right now, I think they're just getting started. 

Offline IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3739 on: July 24, 2018, 01:55:25 PM »
Actually, my thought is OTR needs more offices to become more of a tech center at least on the main spine of Vine Street.

The CBD has huge potential for residential development, like the lots around the Kroger site now, etc. You can't build these types of offices in the CBD because the stock isn't there and these companies don't want new towers and the financing wouldn't be in place anyways unless its a huge user and those spots seem "deemed for next development" with the Banks office pad and also the office pad at Macy's store on Fountain Square.

In OTR, I believe the best thing they could do is continue to build Office Space alone the Vine Street spine all the way up to the Hill. I would also include possible Hotel uses. The rest of the neighborhood all around has plenty of room for residential.

The increase in residents of the CBD in areas not deemed future office pads will increase the foot traffic in OTR. OTR is destined to become a tech office center with tons of restaurants, bars and high end housing. The CBD is where the young professionals can rent and eventually buy in OTR or possibly condos in the CBD, with more spilling out to the West End and other random apartment developments like Troy mentioned already.

*To Add: OTR during the day is pretty well quiet, while the CBD is hopping. It flips completely at night. They need to strike a balance and the good thing is that this can happen without subtracting anything. Also, lots of more residents and hotels in the CBD will greatly help the deadness at times during the weekends in the CBD.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 02:01:52 PM by IAGuy39 »

Offline bfwissel

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3740 on: July 24, 2018, 02:19:30 PM »
I helped set up WiFi for Cincinnati Bell back in the day (early 2000s) for the Digital Rhine Main Street tech startup times of OTR.  Obviously it was a bust, but I could really see something like that take off nowadays.
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Offline nicker66

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3741 on: July 24, 2018, 02:57:57 PM »
The article was very clear.  600/sf per person for residential.  200/sf per person for office.  You get triple the density with office users.  I would also argue office users spend more money (lunch, happy hour, weekday dinner, etc) than residential.

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3742 on: July 24, 2018, 03:14:01 PM »
Yeah, I get that you achieve more day time density with office workers than residents. I'm not against office being included in the redevelopment of OTR, but it seems like the great majority of new projects have been office related. The Strietman (sp?) building over by Music Hall is huge. Is it filling up? There is also the Empower Marketing HQ, 15th and Vine, the 3 buildings announced in this phase of redevelopment, etc. The neighborhood needs all types of uses to be vibrant at different parts of the day, but offices are empty at night and on weekends, and they require lots of off-street parking, and too much office space can create a sterile environment. With a large CBD with lots of vacancy and room for new development right next door, it just seems somewhat backwards to be pushing for office in OTR. We have a streetcar that was designed to link the CBD with OTR so they could work symbiotically.

I think OTR is becoming more and more of a tourist destination, and I would love to see some hotels pop up in the neighborhood. I'd love to see an Ace hotel locate in OTR, but I don't know where they could locate that would allow for enough rooms to be built. With all the restaurants and bars, arts institutions, and residential structures, the groundwork is already laid for OTR to become an iconic historic district ala the French Quarter. You don't see a ton of office space in these types of places, but you do see hotels.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 03:16:06 PM by edale »

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3743 on: July 24, 2018, 03:20:07 PM »
^It's a shame that the art academy isn't bigger than it is, because there simply aren't enough people involved with that institution for it to make a bigger impact on mixing things up.  I'd be curious to hear how the improvement to the neighborhood has improved its recruiting efforts. 

I remember meeting a girl from Iowa who got a scholarship to the Cincinnati Art Academy in the 90s and really like the campus in Mt. Adams but ended up not going.  I can't imagine what it was like right the school moved down there around 2003 and it was still the wild west. 

Offline IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3744 on: July 24, 2018, 03:24:24 PM »
^I don't think you lose much if you designate the spine of Vine Street more towards office use and not the rest of the neighborhood. I don't know what the stats are and I think it would be hard to tell but without office use OTR is pretty dead during the weekday during business hours and it hurts the area and what they are trying to achieve.

I don't think you can say to go to the CBD for a number of reasons:
1.) You don't have the neighborhood feel to really generate much interest in downtown alone
2.) You don't have the capital to build large office use or even smaller office use these companies need, OTR is perfect for it
3.) 15th and Vine and Empower have already filled up. Haven't heard yet on STreitman but in an article they advised that they were working on getting it filled and it would be filled fairly quickly
4.) You have tons of space for Residential and residential alone definitely does not add to the street level vibrancy as would more office use, which in my opinion Vine Street could connect as one spine from the Hill down to the river as a Vibrant office corridor and I think that is the goal of 3CDC. There is so much room on all the sides of Vine Street for Residential that I don't see it as an issue at all moving forward. Just go down streetview or in person and go off the side streets of Vine to see my point, from the river all the way to the hill.

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3745 on: July 24, 2018, 06:27:05 PM »
This just illustrates the importance of mixed uses.  Downtown itself generally doesn't have much mix, it's only office for the most part, which supports very lackluster and generally only chain retail/restaurants that can survive on quick turnaround and fickle employees.  Restaurants in particular generally have to survive on the lunch crowd only, and bars have trouble since nobody's around after dark.  Neighborhoods that are primarily residential also have trouble because of the lack of daytime residents that don't support retail during normal hours.  Plus restaurants are saddled with a lackluster lunch while having to cater to the much longer-lingering dinner crowd.  Nightlife can be crushingly busy though because people are around late, but the bars and clubs have to get nearly all their revenue Friday and Saturday night since they can't get people there any other time of the day, so they have to stay small to minimize rent. 

So I'm in favor of more office space not just in OTR but other neighborhood business districts.  What's lacking is decently sized floor plates.  There's tons of office space in the sub-3,000sf range, but almost nothing bigger than that, even if it were on multiple floors.  This limits these offices to generally less than 20 employees.  It doesn't take much growth in your business to suddenly push you outside of the walkable neighborhoods or into downtown proper as your only choices.  Plus as far as parking goes, with an equal mix of office and residential they rotate out the parking between the two in the morning and evening and get full utilization of the garage.  One need only look at the A&D Parkhaus Garage behind Job and Family Services to see how poorly optimized it is.  It's full starting about 8:30am, but by 6:00pm or so it's completely empty.  They don't even offer overnight monthly permits, there's no hourly discounts in the evening, and the "night owl" discount rate requires you to be out by 4:00am.  It's completely unusable for residents for fear that courthouse patrons might not get a spot in the coveted 8:00-10:00am window. 

Streitman is charging class-A rents (or at least trying to) so it's not filling up as quick as it could, but I don't doubt they'll still get there. 

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3746 on: August 06, 2018, 10:30:11 PM »
Have I mentioned recently that, despite the fact that Walnut got a new streetscape 4 years ago, the utilities still have not been fully buried and most of the telephone poles are still standing?

Holy moly, it looks like all of the above-ground utilities have been removed. Does this mean the poles might actually be removed some time soon?

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3747 on: August 06, 2018, 10:33:20 PM »
Hopefully this means they wonít have to cut down the trees like they always have done in years past, a hopefully this means walnut can finally become properly streetscaped.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3748 on: August 06, 2018, 10:36:44 PM »
All of the underground conduit was installed 4 years ago when they redid the sidewalks, so there is no need to rip up any sidewalks again or cut down any trees. It just took them over 4 years to actually get everything switched over from the above ground wires to the underground wires. Unbelievable. And it'll probably be another few months before they come around to remove the poles, then fill in those sidewalk gaps with concrete.

Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3749 on: August 08, 2018, 04:55:34 PM »
Council members urge school district, 3CDC to negotiate over parking spaces



There was no resolution on Tuesday to the dispute between the Cincinnati Public Schools, the teachers union and the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. over 200 parking spaces in the Washington Park garage that the district wants teachers at Over-the-Rhineís School for the Creative and Performing Arts to continue to be able to use.

3CDC proposes allowing teachers to retain 60 Washington Park spaces with another 120 coming from the Town Center Garage across Central Parkway from Music Hall as well as 20 in the YMCA surface lot across Elm Street from SCPA. 3CDC cites increased parking demand in the neighborhood as the reason for the needed change. There are 450 spaces in Washington Park, although, as is standard in most parking facilities, 3CDC has sold more monthly passes than total spaces because such passes are used at different times of the day.

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/08/08/council-members-urge-school-district-3cdc-to.html
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