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Author Topic: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County Gov't properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)  (Read 2273 times)

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Offline MayDay

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(Sorry for the choppiness - typed this at work from Crains' Cleveland):


Link to the proposals:
http://www.cleveland.com/news/agate.ssf?/news/county_plan.html

The consultant to Cuyahoga County has trimmed the list of sites and developers for a proposed, $100 million county administration building. Last friday, Staubach Co. presented county commissioners with four semi-finalists: the former Higbee building on Public Square, owned by Forest City Enterprises; the vacant Ameritrust Tower on East Ninth owned by the Richard Jacobs Group; a site controlled by the Goldberg family and Trammel Crow Co. of Dallas along Euclid Avenue that would add space to the former Taylor department store; and a site on Lakeside Avenue between West Third and West Ninth Street that eventually would include a residential complex, as proposed by Garfield Traub Development of Dallas.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:29:04 AM by ColDayMan »

Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2004, 01:24:05 PM »
Is that site on lakeside where they were supposed to build courthouse tower at one point.  Kind of sounds like the location.

Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2004, 01:30:39 PM »
I like the 668 Euclid location.  The Building needs a rehab.  I don't see any other developer taking on that building.  Higbee on the other hand has to be eyed by many developers by now for some type of conversion.  This would be a great opportunity to get 668 Euclid cleaned up.

Offline CtownD

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2004, 02:32:58 PM »
I'm glad to see that the Garfield Heights proposal was eliminated (not that anyone really though it had a chance).  Although I am a little dissapointed to see the proposal to add floors to the old Sterling-Lindner building was eliminated.  That was my personal favorite, would have been neat to see what kind of effect that could have had on the section of Euclid between 9th and Playhouse Square.  But I still can't help but be excited to see that something of this magnitude is actually progressing.

Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2004, 02:47:32 PM »
The Lakeside vision is awesome and probaly my favorite because of the mixed use aspect, however, it is quite expensive.  Granted, Cuyahoga county is a very wealthy county, I do not know if they could spring that.

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2004, 07:48:33 PM »
eenie meeny miny moe...

Offline Frank V

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2004, 07:10:59 AM »
They should renovate the Ameritrust tower.  This should be their #1 choice -- it's relatively close to the freeway and there's an attached parking garage.  Perfect for a county HQ.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2004, 08:52:58 AM »
I agree. Best to fill up the vacancies before building more new space. I also like the idea of having the rotunda return as a public space, such as for exhibits, gatherings and possibly for music. Wonder what the accoustics are like in there? But it would probably be used most often by county officials to make bellowing speeches...

KJP
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Offline Summit Street

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2004, 09:18:42 AM »
what exactly is this building....will they move the courthouse to it?

Offline FerrariEnzo

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2004, 08:52:17 PM »
County Commisioners offices.  Peter LAwson Jones et al. 

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2005, 03:14:48 PM »
I like this thread...let's get it heated up again. 

I like the idea of new costruction north of the freeway, right on the waterfront line, but I think that will take care of itself in the long run and hopefully add more housing and expand the Warehouse District.  So, I vote that one out. 

The Higbee (and out-of-the-running May Co.) building needs to be occupied, but I don't think the County is the ideal suitor for it.  I'd like to think we can get some retail back in there eventually, even if it's not all 8 floors.

The Atrium building is an atrocity and needs to be torn down and rebuilt, but again, I think this will be a job for private developers with offices/housing and lotsa retail involved.

Which leaves...the Ameritrust property.  I like the ideas that KJP mentioned about using the Rotunda as a public space of sorts and sticking the offices in the haunting (I've grown to love it) tower behind it.  This one gets my vote!

any updates?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2005, 11:29:49 AM by Mister Good Day »

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2005, 03:53:49 PM »
you love that tower?

The Ameritrust Tower? 

Really?  The Ameritrust tower?

Really?  :?

( :evil:)

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2005, 04:02:57 PM »
call me crazy!  come on, I know you want to! 

I don't know...I used to loathe that building, but now there's something magnificent about it.  I'd be sad if it ever came down...

(These images are from www.ClevelandSkyscrapers.com)

Online 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2005, 04:08:46 PM »
I favor the Ameritrust site.  That is one ugly building which no developer will tackle for any reason besides the county hq.  It would greatly help the E. 9th to Playhouse Square stretch of Euclid that needs a serious shot in the arm.  I don't see much else going up in that sector of Euclid.  The other half of Euclid has some nice momentum going with the HOB, etc., and therefore doesnt need as much help.  My second choice would be the Goldberg building.  But, I think that Maron is slowing marching that way anyways. Anyways, Goldberg already has a plan B for that building.  He tore off the facade so that he could get historic tax credits and has 200+ apartments planned for that building if it is not selected by the county.  The Higbee building is my third choice. The only thing that this site would benefit is Tower City.  I don't like the northern Warehouse district option.  We don't need any new office space and it would lose an opportunity to create a critical mass on Euclid.  This option is too isolated.

Offline the pope

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2005, 04:56:51 PM »
mister good day,

FYI: cleveland skyscrapers is Mayday

Offline smackem81

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2005, 05:19:54 PM »
I go for the Ameritrust site. All the buildings just scream institutional. We got the nice classical old lookin Rotunda, which I agree would make great public space there; we got the tower itself which screams classical 60-70's era insitutional drab concrete look

Offline the pope

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2005, 05:39:43 PM »
^yeah, seriously would we expect any more out of gov't?

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2005, 07:03:15 PM »
I think Ameritrust is best as well.  But god, I hate that building.  Not so much on the skyline, in which respect I think it has a certain brutal dignity, but at ground level, where it and the attached offices an parking garage create a very ugly and very dead zone on Euclid.  I know I just don't want to walk on that side of the street.  It just feels cold, dark, and dead.

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2005, 07:29:00 PM »
yea they really need to move into the Ameritrust highrise... and paint it...

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2005, 07:55:19 PM »
By the way folks - I have a copy of the original prospectus from 2003 that the Jacobs Group produced. I'll see if I can find it and scan some of the highlights. X, they plan to give that side a new entrance with a large glass canopy and other enhancements. That's if they go with the original proposal.

Speaking of - they recently opened the rotunda for a 'Euclid Avenue' retrospective. Your friendly neighborhood geek (me) peeked around a little and found these :-D

On an easel tucked away in the rotunda:


On the wall inside the lobby of the former Ameritrust Tower:


On another easel in the rotunda:


« Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 07:57:16 PM by MayDay »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2005, 08:20:56 PM »
County Commisioners offices. Peter LAwson Jones et al.

The et al of relocated offices is quite a lengthy list, with each office having a large staff....Auditor, Recorder, Treasurer, Engineers, Auto/Boat Title Department, Boards of Elections, Health, Mental Retardation/Development Disabilities, plus planning, development, children's services, emergency management and other departments. I think I recall reading somewhere that 3,000 county employees would need to fit into whatever new building they select. For now, they're scattered in offices all over downtown.

Look in the blue section in the Cleveland white pages phonebook and you'll see how many county offices, boards and departments there are. It's a lot more than the county commissioners et al.

KJP
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2005, 09:19:12 PM »
I think it has a certain brutal dignity

I think that's a great way to put it X! 

Like I said, I used to abhor that building, but just look at it...there's nothing as severe or dark as the Ameritrust Tower.  And on that note...don't even think about painting it!

I'm sensing another category coming up...

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2005, 09:42:41 PM »
^Like, how government buildings before World War II used to be as beautiful as churches, and after the war, were ugly as sin?

KJP
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2005, 09:46:15 PM »
Exactly.  Keep it as a cautionary tale of just how bad architecture can be. (I'm only half joking)  But I am glad to hear they are planning something to liven up the ground floor along East 9th.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2005, 08:55:43 PM »
Hey all, back on this topic...I'm not sure when the deadline for recommendations is, but I was able to speak with a couple individuals who are on the advisory panel for this decision last week and they were both adamant about the development residing on Euclid.  Across the board, people spoke with felt that the lakefront idea is way off course and that the focus right now should be on Euclid Avenue.  Now, which of the three Euclid Ave sites is preferred?  I couldn't get an answer out of these guys, but I'm going to make the assumption that they were behind the Ameritrust site, based on their reaction to my argument for it.  Go Euclid Ave!

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2005, 09:05:54 PM »
I honestly see the Ameritrust site being selected as the finalist - just a gut feeling but if I had to place a bet...

Offline WoollyBear

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2005, 09:23:18 PM »
I really like the Ameritrust site :-). However, something needs to be done to the outside of the tower. I am not an architect or engineer, so I will open this question out to the experts. Can that surface be painted? Call me corny but I think re-doing that tower, and making that more attractive will kind of go hand-in-hand with the rebirth of Euclid Ave.

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2005, 09:35:33 PM »
The facade of the tower is composed of black granite and pre-cast concrete. Honestly, it's not unlike another reviled modernist monstrosity, the Pan Am (aka MetLife) Tower in NYC. The most you can do with the concrete "honeycomb" is to clean it (which did actually make a noticeable difference in the MetLife building). The black granite is pretty much fixed in place.

I've wondered if it was possible to make "inserts" that would fasten right over the 'bathtub' forms of pre-cast concrete. Of course, I'm not sure what materials would look right in that 'honeycomb' pattern...   :?

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2005, 09:43:13 PM »
I doubt that they will touch the exterior of the tower.  Cost is very important to the county and such exterior changes would most likely be costly. 

That said, I wish that they would select the site.  They keep pushing back the deadline.  I also feel that the Ameritrust site is far and away the best.  It is the deadest spot on lower Euclid.  However, we really don't know the difference in the costs.  If the Higbee building is much cheaper, I could see the county going with that building.  i doubt that they will go will the Goldberg proposal.  New construction would seem to be the costliest option and thus preclude that option.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Cuyahoga County govt properties disposition (non-Ameritrust)
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2005, 11:34:05 AM »
Ok, I mentioned earlier on this thread that the most likely option for the Atrium Building (the Goldberg property) would be to tear it down and start fresh.  What I did not know is that the existing building qualifies for Historic Preservation Tax Credits.  Who knew that building was a landmark??? (some of you did, I'm sure...)  So, it would be much more cost effective for whoever does decide to develop that building to renovate it and reuse it.  This throws a new light on the building for me, which currently looks like it's in the early stages of demolition.  Apparently, there's something worth saving under that ugly shell!

And I will say again that I love the Ameritrust Tower...no paint, no "inserts," just a tenant who will love it for what it is!