Author Topic: Cleveland City Council  (Read 9853 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9222
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #420 on: October 05, 2016, 08:35:45 AM »
Cleveland.com is running 3 different articles on the bikes today, one supporting the track proposal.  Not sure where I stand on that in general but I'm against booting an established football program from the park in question.  The only urban dirtbike facility I can think of was in the video game GTA Vice City.  It was not located in a neighborhood.  I would not want to live near one, that much is certain.

What's really telling is they disabled comments on all three articles, and I would say all three support the proposal.   Someone has an "investment" in this really bad idea.   Everything Polensek had to say on it on the Triv show was 100% accurate.

DeMario McCall got his start in that program.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 08:36:20 AM by E Rocc »

Offline 327

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7147
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #421 on: October 05, 2016, 09:52:18 AM »
What did Polensek say?  I agree, this all comes off as a publicity blitz with a strange amount of force behind it.

Online surfohio

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7470
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #422 on: October 05, 2016, 11:52:31 AM »
Cleveland.com is running 3 different articles on the bikes today, one supporting the track proposal.  Not sure where I stand on that in general but I'm against booting an established football program from the park in question.  The only urban dirtbike facility I can think of was in the video game GTA Vice City.  It was not located in a neighborhood.  I would not want to live near one, that much is certain.

Going to need a curfew for sure. Going to have to monitor constantly for drug/gang activity if Cleveland bikers do the same "activities" as they do in DC/Balt. This facility will likely become a focal point between the police and bikeriders unless someone can govern the facility from the inside.

Hoping it will work but I have a feeling this is another bad idea from a city government with a long history of making wrong choices.

I think it would be great.  I grew up riding dirt bikes and would love to get one but the closest place to legitimately ride (that I know of) is Lake County.  If it was well done I think you'd see a lot of young people coming from the inner and outer suburbs to use it.

I ride bikes too and I hope it works. The problem is these bikes aren't just being used for riding around, they're also being used for other activities. Is this going to be a park for everyone or is at an attempt to recreate the Midnight Basketball program that was used to keep young adults off of the streets and out of gangs during the crack epidemic a few decades back. If it's the latter, it needs to managed well or it could become a problem. Is the city operating this?

In DC they've taken the somewhat opposite route of Cleveland where the Police Chief has an active enforcement program to try to get most of them off the streets. It will be interesting to see which approach works better.

I think this is a good idea overall. But not if the park devolves into some kind of lawless Mad Max scenario. So I agree with you guys, there has to be oversight to ensure that it's a safe environment.

Still I'm optimistic. Yes the bike culture is ingrained with drug sales. It's not unlike the outlaw origins of NASCAR in that regard. And motocross is a big sport and has all kinds of sponsorship opportunities; if done the right way it's another sport that can channel kids toward healthy competition and a better future.

Who knows, maybe this place affords the police further opportunity to interact with neighborhood kids in a positive, meaningful way.

Offline Old AmrapinVA

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 2080
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #423 on: October 05, 2016, 12:39:14 PM »
Cleveland.com is running 3 different articles on the bikes today, one supporting the track proposal.  Not sure where I stand on that in general but I'm against booting an established football program from the park in question.  The only urban dirtbike facility I can think of was in the video game GTA Vice City.  It was not located in a neighborhood.  I would not want to live near one, that much is certain.

Going to need a curfew for sure. Going to have to monitor constantly for drug/gang activity if Cleveland bikers do the same "activities" as they do in DC/Balt. This facility will likely become a focal point between the police and bikeriders unless someone can govern the facility from the inside.

Hoping it will work but I have a feeling this is another bad idea from a city government with a long history of making wrong choices.

I think it would be great.  I grew up riding dirt bikes and would love to get one but the closest place to legitimately ride (that I know of) is Lake County.  If it was well done I think you'd see a lot of young people coming from the inner and outer suburbs to use it.

I ride bikes too and I hope it works. The problem is these bikes aren't just being used for riding around, they're also being used for other activities. Is this going to be a park for everyone or is at an attempt to recreate the Midnight Basketball program that was used to keep young adults off of the streets and out of gangs during the crack epidemic a few decades back. If it's the latter, it needs to managed well or it could become a problem. Is the city operating this?

In DC they've taken the somewhat opposite route of Cleveland where the Police Chief has an active enforcement program to try to get most of them off the streets. It will be interesting to see which approach works better.

I think this is a good idea overall. But not if the park devolves into some kind of lawless Mad Max scenario. So I agree with you guys, there has to be oversight to ensure that it's a safe environment.

Still I'm optimistic. Yes the bike culture is ingrained with drug sales. It's not unlike the outlaw origins of NASCAR in that regard. And motocross is a big sport and has all kinds of sponsorship opportunities; if done the right way it's another sport that can channel kids toward healthy competition and a better future.

Who knows, maybe this place affords the police further opportunity to interact with neighborhood kids in a positive, meaningful way.

We're lacking information at this point. My other questions are: Is this a Midnight Basketball program or just a park? Are they looking for sponsorships or is this just a facility to get the bikes off the street and contained? Is the city going to be responsible for it?

We all want the same goal of making this a positive place but if it's managed incorrectly it could centralize drug and gang activity and drive away residents and could be another eyesore in a city which still has too many. There needs to funds to operate the place after it is built. Long-term thinking needs to be applied by the city of Cleveland here.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 12:40:25 PM by AmrapinVA »

Offline Hts121

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 18150
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #424 on: October 05, 2016, 03:24:24 PM »
They may be used on occasion for drug trafficking, but that is not what is driving their popularity.  Not... even... close.  Think about it.  If you have a couple rocks of crack in your pocket, are you going to ride down the street on an bike that is not street legal at excessive speeds, popping wheelies?  Of course not.  Given that drug dealers are not the smartest people, but most of the ones who make enough money to afford anything (such as a dirt bike) before being caught are not stupid.  Their street smarts, in fact, far exceed those of the average exurban kid.

This is a question that really has no easy right/wrong answer.  But I'd lean towards providing a public space where such stunts can be legally performed, and hope that it reduces (although it surely won't eliminate) the illicit street riding.

Offline skorasaurus

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 382
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #425 on: October 05, 2016, 04:13:08 PM »
Didn't think I posted this before, but a couple comrades and I have been working on releasing and organizing the information from the City Record.

The City Record is the weekly publication of proposed (and passed) legislation, bids, notices, and other things from City Council, previously only available as PDF (if you ever tried to research with PDFs, it's a pain.. Ever try to search across multiple ones? doesn't happen).

Right now, if you'd like to view the plain text of the City Records from 1996- present, just visit https://github.com/opencleveland/drocer and search for text at the top of the page.

First step: extracting the raw text from the PDFs is done.
next steps: taking the text, organizing it in a structured manner (working on it)
creating a website to browse, search the text. (The website isn't that far along, nothing public for it just yet).

We started with 1996, since it was the first year that City Council Records were available as PDF, everything before that has yet to be scanned, digitized*, and processed by anyone, which adds several layers of complexity and requires a lot of time (but, hey if you want to hire us to do it....  :wink2:).
(for pedantic detail, CPL does have PRE 96 available on Microfiche, but that's still only 1 step of many needed to be done).
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 04:17:28 PM by skorasaurus »

Offline Old AmrapinVA

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 2080
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #426 on: October 05, 2016, 04:14:42 PM »
They may be used on occasion for drug trafficking, but that is not what is driving their popularity.  Not... even... close.  Think about it.  If you have a couple rocks of crack in your pocket, are you going to ride down the street on an bike that is not street legal at excessive speeds, popping wheelies?  Of course not.  Given that drug dealers are not the smartest people, but most of the ones who make enough money to afford anything (such as a dirt bike) before being caught are not stupid.  Their street smarts, in fact, far exceed those of the average exurban kid.

This is a question that really has no easy right/wrong answer.  But I'd lean towards providing a public space where such stunts can be legally performed, and hope that it reduces (although it surely won't eliminate) the illicit street riding.

Yeah, I can tell you with first hand knowledge that an increasing amount of riders do deal in drugs and other illegal activities and most gangs are using them here in DC and Baltimore. Could not be the case in Cleveland though.

Yes they're very noisy and cumbersome but they're very easy to get away in and aren't registered. Cops aren't going to chase one down the sidewalk and there are plenty of alleys to get lost in. It's why DC Chief Lanier wants them off the streets. They ride up on sidewalks or alleyways and don't care if they run someone over.

Their popularity was initially not drug related (VICE has good doc on the "early days" of riders) but riding has become of a bit of a gang status symbol for this area.

Again, Cleveland may be quite different.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 04:16:18 PM by AmrapinVA »

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9222
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #427 on: October 06, 2016, 06:01:36 AM »
What did Polensek say?  I agree, this all comes off as a publicity blitz with a strange amount of force behind it.

Polensek mostly spoke about fixing existing stuff, specifically pools in his district that have been closed, with that money.  There were some very subtle allusions to the bikes/ATVs being disruptive, and I believe he made the point that they are likely to be driven there on the streets in any case.

As for the drug trade, while it may not be even the predominant usage anymore itís where this fad came from.  Ask pretty much any street level cop.  They are used to transport mid level quantities.  Some street level dealers use dirt bikes, but most use bicycles.  What happens when you get caught isnít an issue when these things are so hard to catch, especially when the mayor has ordered they not be chased.


Offline Hts121

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 18150
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #428 on: October 07, 2016, 03:39:38 PM »
^I talk to cops every day.  You can't always accept what they tell you as gospel.  You have to consider the effect their job has on them sometimes and take what they say with a grain of salt, especially if you are talking to them over a drink.  There is no statistical evidence which establishes this word of mouth. 

The fad is by and large due to thrill seekers who want to show-boat.  They congregate in large packs, sometimes as much as 40-50 and take over a street (not much different that critical mass rides I might add, although certainly more of a hazard).  And it really is not as new as people are making it seem.  This goes back to the 90's in many places.

The bikes can be used to pushing drugs, just as cars and bicycles can be so used, but that is not their primary use.  And, yes, gang members (who also happen to sell drugs) like to get involved in these types of fads. 

This reminds me of the time when cops said loud music (bass) being boomed out of cars was a sign that you were "open for business"
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 03:43:13 PM by Hts121 »

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9222
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #429 on: December 09, 2016, 05:50:41 PM »
Listened to Triv again today (best traffic).  Zack Reed basically announced his mayoral candidacy.  Main issue:  upgrade the police.

Offline seicer

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 10692
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #430 on: January 11, 2017, 09:12:05 AM »
Oh look. Frank Jackson's pet "dirt bike" track that is siphoning money from other dilapidated recreation centers (and arguably other higher ranked projects) is getting passed because of more strong-armed tactics. Was his grandson ever charged for riding his unlicensed, unlit bike on MLK? And for trying to evade police and resisting arrest?

Explaining Cleveland City Council president's strange way of getting dirt bike bill through committee

A maneuver that helped get a controversial $2.3 million dirt bike track proposal through a Cleveland City Council committee Monday drew shouts and threats of lawsuits.

And more: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/01/shouting_match_threat_of_lawsu.html

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9222
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #431 on: January 11, 2017, 09:49:06 AM »
Oh look. Frank Jackson's pet "dirt bike" track that is siphoning money from other dilapidated recreation centers (and arguably other higher ranked projects) is getting passed because of more strong-armed tactics. Was his grandson ever charged for riding his unlicensed, unlit bike on MLK? And for trying to evade police and resisting arrest?

Explaining Cleveland City Council president's strange way of getting dirt bike bill through committee

A maneuver that helped get a controversial $2.3 million dirt bike track proposal through a Cleveland City Council committee Monday drew shouts and threats of lawsuits.

And more: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/01/shouting_match_threat_of_lawsu.html

We talked about it some on the Mayor Jackson thread.  It ended up getting set aside in committee.   Reed, Polensek, and Johnson worked together and I suspect one of them just might be mayor-elect at the end of this year.

Loved one of the comments, it's like building a gun range to get the shootings off the streets.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 09:50:15 AM by E Rocc »

Offline seicer

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 10692
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #432 on: January 11, 2017, 09:55:38 AM »
Oh - thanks! I loved some of those comments. Usually it's a shitshow of comments on cleveland.com, but many of these were spot-on, sadly.

Online X

  • Global Moderator
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9985
    • Western Reserve Meadery
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #433 on: October 28, 2017, 04:43:38 PM »
Taking On the Man
Four Women Vying for Seats on a Male-Dominated Cleveland City Council
By Sam Allard

When Ward 6 Councilwoman Mamie Mitchell stepped down for health reasons in May, she hand-selected the city's community relations director, Blaine Griffin, to replace her. Much of the backroom conversation at the time concerned the logistics of that decision: Mitchell had been ill for quite awhile. Why bother appointing Griffin with only four months, including the summer recess, remaining in the term? Why not retire gracefully by simply not seeking re-election?

Many of the Ward 6 council challengers, who had sniffed out Griffin's appointment long before it was public, saw the maneuver as an ugly and all-too-familiar staple: Councilpeople cling to power for as long as they can, opponents complained, and then they choose their own successors, making a mockery of the democratic process.

But other observers noticed something else. With the departure of Mitchell and the arrival of Griffin, a stark imbalance on council was drawn into even starker relief. There were now only two women on the 17-member body: Ward 5's Phyllis Cleveland and Ward 11's Dona Brady.

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/taking-on-the-man/Content?oid=11580492&utm_source=Cleveland+Scene+-+Weekly+Newsletters&utm_campaign=abd05b2b51-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_25&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_63c629abc4-abd05b2b51-35256177

Online Cleburger

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4536
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #434 on: October 30, 2017, 12:34:15 PM »
^^I've heard many people in Dona Brady's ward are not even sure she exists, so it may only be one female on council! :)

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9222
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #435 on: October 30, 2017, 10:18:08 PM »
https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2017/10/26/in-ward-14-clevelands-ugliest-city-council-race-is-getting-even-uglier

Sounds to me like Santana is trying to win strictly based on "identity politics".

I give Boyd in 8 (my ward) credit, he doesn't seem to be doing that.   I'll still vote for Polensek, but that makes me more likely to support Boyd if I'm still here when MP retires.

Offline 327

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7147
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #436 on: October 31, 2017, 03:16:06 PM »
^^I've heard many people in Dona Brady's ward are not even sure she exists, so it may only be one female on council! :)

Found her!  She's doing everything in her power to make the city regressive and inhospitable.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/10/city_council_zoning_ordinance.html#incart_river_home_pop

Offline KJP

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 49797
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #437 on: January 09, 2018, 04:54:27 PM »
Sounds like Dow is playing keep-away with the money. Since his challenger beat him, Dow would rather see his buddy get the money, and screw his ward he allegedly served. This is why I laugh when a politician calls him/herself a "public servant" rather than a "self servant"...

Outgoing Councilman TJ Dow sought to send $700,000 earmarked for his ward elsewhere in Cleveland
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/outgoing_councilman_tj_dow_sou.html
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline freefourur

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 3864
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #438 on: January 09, 2018, 04:55:19 PM »
TJ Dow is the swamp.  Good Riddance.

Offline TBideon

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 3429
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #439 on: January 12, 2018, 05:29:13 PM »
Now that is a guy who really shouldn't receive any medical attention. A complete scumbag.

Offline gottaplan

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4337
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #440 on: January 13, 2018, 08:50:09 AM »
^^I've heard many people in Dona Brady's ward are not even sure she exists, so it may only be one female on council! :)

Found her!  She's doing everything in her power to make the city regressive and inhospitable.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/10/city_council_zoning_ordinance.html#incart_river_home_pop

Pretty lame.  Some of these council members need to take a trip to other cities where medicinal marijuana is working and educate themselves enough to pass proper legislation.  As it is now, they are just throwing things out there that don't make much sense

Offline MayDay

  • Administrator
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 10396
    • Cleveland Skyscrapers
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #441 on: April 25, 2018, 08:42:15 PM »
Former downtown Cleveland City Councilman Joe Cimperman charged in Ohio Ethics Commission investigation

By Cory Shaffer, cleveland.com CShaffer@Cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former Cleveland City Councilman Joe Cimperman was charged Wednesday with 26 misdemeanors related to his involvement in city contracts with a design firm that employed his wife.

Cimperman was charged with having an unlawful interest in a public contract, a first-degree misdemeanor. The offenses date back to 2002, according to court records.

The charges were filed by information, which usually signals that defendants have reached an agreement to plead guilty.

More at:
http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2018/04/former_cleveland_city_councilm.html#incart_2box

Offline Mendo

  • One World Trade Center 1,776'
  • ****
  • Posts: 1334
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #442 on: April 25, 2018, 08:46:21 PM »
I'm shocked, shocked, to hear it. You mean the councilman's wife's studio getting nearly every city contract wasn't on the up-n-up?

Offline gottaplan

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4337
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #443 on: April 26, 2018, 07:37:19 AM »
seems very petty to me.  Aren't most council decisions voted on nearly unanimously?  So was Cimperman the only vote for his wife's employer?  I guess he should have abtained from any vote that involved this firm?

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9222
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #444 on: April 26, 2018, 10:17:11 AM »
seems very petty to me.  Aren't most council decisions voted on nearly unanimously?  So was Cimperman the only vote for his wife's employer?  I guess he should have abtained from any vote that involved this firm?

Yes, he should have. 

Also, there's definitely horse trading in council and others voting for his wife's firm could easily have been a quid pro quo.

This was discussed in this group even when he was still in council, among other things he did that set off alarms among the cynical.

Offline StapHanger

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 8639
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #445 on: April 26, 2018, 11:26:57 AM »
seems very petty to me.  Aren't most council decisions voted on nearly unanimously?  So was Cimperman the only vote for his wife's employer?  I guess he should have abtained from any vote that involved this firm?

It's a good to see the ethics rules enforced vigorously, and he did screw up, but I agree this is a big pile of nothing in terms of actual corruption. Whether he'd had abstained or not would have made zero difference. Even without Cimperman in office, LAND is pretty much the only outside party the city trusts to shepherd big projects of this nature through. Not at all the same thing as public officials steering contract to shadowy consultants or contractors with murky ownership.

Offline 327

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7147
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #446 on: April 26, 2018, 11:29:54 AM »
City policy was steered toward LAND's specialty, which happens to be greenspace.  Think of all the parks that have been torn up and replaced with different parks during his time in power.

Offline bjk

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 318
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #447 on: April 26, 2018, 02:07:03 PM »
What do you call a councilperson without ethics violations?

A newcomer

Offline gottaplan

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4337
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #448 on: April 26, 2018, 02:09:00 PM »
seems very petty to me.  Aren't most council decisions voted on nearly unanimously?  So was Cimperman the only vote for his wife's employer?  I guess he should have abtained from any vote that involved this firm?

It's a good to see the ethics rules enforced vigorously, and he did screw up, but I agree this is a big pile of nothing in terms of actual corruption. Whether he'd had abstained or not would have made zero difference. Even without Cimperman in office, LAND is pretty much the only outside party the city trusts to shepherd big projects of this nature through. Not at all the same thing as public officials steering contract to shadowy consultants or contractors with murky ownership.

it's not the same thing as steering contracts to shadowy consultants or contrators - LAND Studio & Park Works are non-profit, right? 

Offline 327

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7147
Re: Cleveland City Council
« Reply #449 on: April 26, 2018, 02:20:25 PM »
seems very petty to me.  Aren't most council decisions voted on nearly unanimously?  So was Cimperman the only vote for his wife's employer?  I guess he should have abtained from any vote that involved this firm?

It's a good to see the ethics rules enforced vigorously, and he did screw up, but I agree this is a big pile of nothing in terms of actual corruption. Whether he'd had abstained or not would have made zero difference. Even without Cimperman in office, LAND is pretty much the only outside party the city trusts to shepherd big projects of this nature through. Not at all the same thing as public officials steering contract to shadowy consultants or contractors with murky ownership.

it's not the same thing as steering contracts to shadowy consultants or contrators - LAND Studio & Park Works are non-profit, right? 

Salaries at legitimate businesses are the way this is often done.  It doesn't have to involve a company that sounds like Grifter & Sons Garbage Cartage.