Author Topic: Dead Malls  (Read 3369 times)

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Offline TBideon

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #90 on: July 21, 2016, 08:43:41 AM »
If any of you know Chicago, you should read about the history and current issues plaguing the Block 37 mall in the loop. One of the more interesting clusterf-cks of any city, it still survives in a weird zombie-purgatory state. On the one hand, it has high end apartments (recently built), an expensive theater and nice Latin-esque foodcourt, both of which are less than a year old (before those entire floors were completely desolate), and tremendous access to the red and blue lines under ground.

On the other hand, there are just countless empty storefronts to the point of it being a ghost mall on several floors). The mall feels like a combination of the Galleria and Tower City. Very new and clean, lots of commuters coming and leaving...and empty for the most part despite being located in the heart of downtown Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-block-37-architecture-kamin-met-0612-20160610-column.html (pretty current overview)

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/April-2012/A-Brief-History-of-Block-37/ (though the mall is in better condition today than when the article was published)

There's even a book about the history of the mall/that specific area, and that's from 1996.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 08:55:26 AM by TBideon »

Offline McLovin

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #91 on: July 24, 2016, 10:48:21 AM »
If any of you know Chicago, you should read about the history and current issues plaguing the Block 37 mall in the loop. One of the more interesting clusterf-cks of any city, it still survives in a weird zombie-purgatory state. On the one hand, it has high end apartments (recently built), an expensive theater and nice Latin-esque foodcourt, both of which are less than a year old (before those entire floors were completely desolate), and tremendous access to the red and blue lines under ground.

On the other hand, there are just countless empty storefronts to the point of it being a ghost mall on several floors). The mall feels like a combination of the Galleria and Tower City. Very new and clean, lots of commuters coming and leaving...and empty for the most part despite being located in the heart of downtown Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-block-37-architecture-kamin-met-0612-20160610-column.html (pretty current overview)

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/April-2012/A-Brief-History-of-Block-37/ (though the mall is in better condition today than when the article was published)

There's even a book about the history of the mall/that specific area, and that's from 1996.
If that mall and housing design is bland the a lot of Cleveland downtown architecture is as bland as they come lol. I understand though Chicago architecture is next level.

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Offline taestell

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2018, 12:38:21 PM »
I think the peak time for dead mall exploration was in the mid-2000s. Now, almost all of the interesting dead malls have either been remodeled, demolished, converted into some non-mall use, or turned into a faux urban "towne centre" type of shopping center. It's hard to find malls built in the 60s, 70s, or 80s that are still open and still have their original architecture (i.e., didn't get totally remodeled in the 2000s or 2010s).

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2018, 12:47:21 PM »
Summit Mall seems to be still going reasonably well with largely its original floorplan.  But I get that that certainly might be an endangered species considering all the other Summit County malls that have closed since the 1980s (and Chapel Hill is certainly struggling and probably in an unrecoverable downward spiral).

Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2018, 12:50:24 PM »
Tri-County looks like it's in real danger of closing.  It is anchored only by a Sears and Macy's, both of which are in decline.  I went there in December a week before Christmas and the place was deserted. 

Offline mu2010

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #95 on: January 11, 2018, 12:55:17 PM »
^ That's pretty crazy. A lot of these other malls which have been closing have been nearly dead since I was a kid, but I remember Tri-County was always busy, new, and nice when I was in college at Miami ten years ago. For all the hubub about dead malls, there are plenty of malls doing fine, just that each metro area can support fewer malls than in the past and the losers lose big. In Cleveland Beachwood and Crocker Park are good, in Columbus you have Tuttle, Polaris, and Easton all are fine, and in Cincy it seemed Tri-County and Kenwood were doing well. Then again, I visited none of them this year so maybe my ideas are dated...
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 12:59:45 PM by mu2010 »

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #96 on: January 11, 2018, 01:03:18 PM »
^Crocker Park is not a mall.

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #97 on: January 11, 2018, 01:03:49 PM »
Yeah Tri-County's getting really slow. A friend of mine was able to make good money with his store there until only a year or two ago. He was doing a lot better than most of the other stores there since he had been there for a very long time. He's now thinking of moving it into a strip mall nearby.

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #98 on: January 11, 2018, 01:06:15 PM »
... there are plenty of malls doing fine, just that each metro area can support fewer malls than in the past and the losers lose big. In Cleveland Beachwood and Crocker Park are good, in Columbus you have Tuttle, Polaris, and Easton all are fine,

True, but taestell's original statement was

Quote
It's hard to find malls built in the 60s, 70s, or 80s that are still open and still have their original architecture.

(Emphasis added.)  Tuttle, Polaris, and Easton are all newer than that.

Offline taestell

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #99 on: January 11, 2018, 01:07:22 PM »
Tri-County looks like it's in real danger of closing.  It is anchored only by a Sears and Macy's, both of which are in decline.  I went there in December a week before Christmas and the place was deserted. 

Tri-County Mall has already started the conversion process into a strip mall. They started building out new strip mall buildings in their parking lot and stores that used to be in the mall have started moving to those new buildings.

It was a really awful idea to have three shopping malls in the northwestern burbs of Cincinnati (Forest Fair, Tri-County, and Northgate). If Tri-County was the only one and the other two never existed, it might be doing okay.

Offline taestell

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #100 on: January 11, 2018, 01:09:22 PM »
... there are plenty of malls doing fine, just that each metro area can support fewer malls than in the past and the losers lose big. In Cleveland Beachwood and Crocker Park are good, in Columbus you have Tuttle, Polaris, and Easton all are fine,

True, but taestell's original statement was

Quote
It's hard to find malls built in the 60s, 70s, or 80s that are still open and still have their original architecture.

(Emphasis added.)  Tuttle, Polaris, and Easton are all newer than that.

Yeah, I'm talking about this from a "I want to explore dead malls" perspective, haha. There are plenty of Ohio malls (and faux urban shopping centers) that are doing OK.

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #101 on: January 11, 2018, 01:23:07 PM »
Tri-County looks like it's in real danger of closing.  It is anchored only by a Sears and Macy's, both of which are in decline.  I went there in December a week before Christmas and the place was deserted. 

Tri-County Mall has already started the conversion process into a strip mall. They started building out new strip mall buildings in their parking lot and stores that used to be in the mall have started moving to those new buildings.

It was a really awful idea to have three shopping malls in the northwestern burbs of Cincinnati (Forest Fair, Tri-County, and Northgate). If Tri-County was the only one and the other two never existed, it might be doing okay.


And little Northgate came out the winner.

Offline Mov2Ohio

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #102 on: January 11, 2018, 01:37:11 PM »
^Crocker Park is not a mall.

Yes it is LOL. Sure it's not the 60's-90's version, and is called a "Lifestyle Center", but come on. It's still a shopping centered anchored by large format retailers with some residential on its own isolated property.

Lifestyle center is just a real estate term meant to make people think they are getting something new, when all they are getting is a repackaged mall.

In the Cleveland area most of the malls in the stable middle class areas are doing fine. That includes the two mentioned above as well as the three others in the area. So we are down to five or six, when as late as 2001 we had around 10 malls.

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #103 on: January 11, 2018, 01:42:20 PM »
In Ohio you need both enclosed and open-air in your portfolio since one does really well when the weather is crappy and the other does well when it's nice.

Offline mu2010

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #104 on: January 11, 2018, 02:42:47 PM »
^Crocker Park is not a mall.

Yes it is LOL. Sure it's not the 60's-90's version, and is called a "Lifestyle Center", but come on. It's still a shopping centered anchored by large format retailers with some residential on its own isolated property.

Lifestyle center is just a real estate term meant to make people think they are getting something new, when all they are getting is a repackaged mall.

In the Cleveland area most of the malls in the stable middle class areas are doing fine. That includes the two mentioned above as well as the three others in the area. So we are down to five or six, when as late as 2001 we had around 10 malls.

I almost didn't put Crocker, but I don't know anything about the other west side malls so I couldn't comment on them lol. Is Great Northern still going or is South Park the main one? I heard Parmatown is like the West Side version of Richmond. Never been to any of them except Crocker so that's why I put it. I recognize that even if it's a mall, it's not the type of mall that's going "dead."

Online surfohio

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #105 on: January 11, 2018, 03:09:12 PM »
Summit Mall seems to be still going reasonably well with largely its original floorplan.  But I get that that certainly might be an endangered species considering all the other Summit County malls that have closed since the 1980s (and Chapel Hill is certainly struggling and probably in an unrecoverable downward spiral).

Sorry you never got to experience Quaker Square mall. It was once quite awesome, especially at Christmas.

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #106 on: January 11, 2018, 03:12:52 PM »
I think I got to experience it as ... well, as the topic of this thread.

Online freefourur

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #107 on: January 11, 2018, 03:15:05 PM »
Summit Mall seems to be still going reasonably well with largely its original floorplan.  But I get that that certainly might be an endangered species considering all the other Summit County malls that have closed since the 1980s (and Chapel Hill is certainly struggling and probably in an unrecoverable downward spiral).

Sorry you never got to experience Quaker Square mall. It was once quite awesome, especially at Christmas.

Wait, was there a mall there?  I was only at Quaker Square once years ago and only remember a hotel.  Did I miss something?

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #108 on: January 11, 2018, 03:18:11 PM »
In Ohio you need both enclosed and open-air in your portfolio since one does really well when the weather is crappy and the other does well when it's nice.

I'm not so sure about that.   In most open-air centers you can park close to the door of your destination store.

It speaks volumes that Randall Park Mall was supposed to put Southgate out of business but it's the latter that is still a going concern, albeit on a smaller scale.

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #109 on: January 11, 2018, 03:28:57 PM »
^Crocker Park is not a mall.

Yes it is LOL. Sure it's not the 60's-90's version, and is called a "Lifestyle Center", but come on. It's still a shopping centered anchored by large format retailers with some residential on its own isolated property.

Lifestyle center is just a real estate term meant to make people think they are getting something new, when all they are getting is a repackaged mall.

In the Cleveland area most of the malls in the stable middle class areas are doing fine. That includes the two mentioned above as well as the three others in the area. So we are down to five or six, when as late as 2001 we had around 10 malls.

I almost didn't put Crocker, but I don't know anything about the other west side malls so I couldn't comment on them lol. Is Great Northern still going or is South Park the main one? I heard Parmatown is like the West Side version of Richmond. Never been to any of them except Crocker so that's why I put it. I recognize that even if it's a mall, it's not the type of mall that's going "dead."

Great Northern is still popular and doing fine as a "regular" mall - and the strip centers around it do very well. though Southpark always seems the liveliest of local malls (but sometimes more in a teens hanging out kind of way).  Parmatown has actually been remade into a surprisingly nice, new strip center - with big box anchors and on the perimeter restaurants like Mission BBQ (which I drive 40 minutes to enjoy...) and Piada.  It is now NOTHING like the disaster that is the Richmond mall.  (A decade+ or so ago, Westgate mall was dead and remade into an even nicer grouping of strip retail buildings... a poor man's Crocker)

Online surfohio

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #110 on: January 11, 2018, 03:29:12 PM »
Summit Mall seems to be still going reasonably well with largely its original floorplan.  But I get that that certainly might be an endangered species considering all the other Summit County malls that have closed since the 1980s (and Chapel Hill is certainly struggling and probably in an unrecoverable downward spiral).

Sorry you never got to experience Quaker Square mall. It was once quite awesome, especially at Christmas.

Wait, was there a mall there?  I was only at Quaker Square once years ago and only remember a hotel.  Did I miss something?

When the hotel was a Hilton the mall was thriving. It had a lot of specialty shops along with several unique bars and restaurants. During the holiday season they would go all out with vintage decorations, choirs and musicians. Then like a flash, it was gone. It went from vibrant to barely clinging to life in a matter of months.

Unfortunately a quick Google search isn't showing anything to provide evidence. The early 90's is sort of like the "dark ages" in some ways...more people need to get busy with their scanners lol.

Online eyehrtfood

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #111 on: January 11, 2018, 03:32:15 PM »
Summit Mall seems to be still going reasonably well with largely its original floorplan.  But I get that that certainly might be an endangered species considering all the other Summit County malls that have closed since the 1980s (and Chapel Hill is certainly struggling and probably in an unrecoverable downward spiral).

Sorry you never got to experience Quaker Square mall. It was once quite awesome, especially at Christmas.

Wait, was there a mall there?  I was only at Quaker Square once years ago and only remember a hotel.  Did I miss something?

There was a grouping of small shops on multiple floors of the old Quaker Square building -  loosely a mall - with a nice restaurant in the basement level - as I recall. The Quaker Hilton was there with rooms in the old silos (or whatever the cylindrical storage areas were) - though I believe those are now dorms(?)  or apartments...?

Online surfohio

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #112 on: January 11, 2018, 03:47:49 PM »
There was a grouping of small shops on multiple floors of the old Quaker Square building -  loosely a mall - with a nice restaurant in the basement level - as I recall. The Quaker Hilton was there with rooms in the old silos (or whatever the cylindrical storage areas were) - though I believe those are now dorms(?)  or apartments...?

Dorms:


Online GCrites80s

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #113 on: January 11, 2018, 04:21:59 PM »
In Ohio you need both enclosed and open-air in your portfolio since one does really well when the weather is crappy and the other does well when it's nice.

I'm not so sure about that.   In most open-air centers you can park close to the door of your destination store.


That's fine if you are the destination store, but if you are the other stores that the person isn't familiar with it doesn't help. We want people walking slowly and looking around, not driving.

Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #114 on: January 11, 2018, 04:38:59 PM »
I don't use my phone's maps much, and my car doesn't have a link.  But I recently rented a car that automatically linked my phone, and noticed that various retailers show up unannounced on the car's screen.  This sort of thing has to be hurting the value of malls and even higher-value corner locations.  If a business that used to need premier visibility doesn't need it anymore then the value of retail nodes doesn't even matter so much.  Set up in an obscure strip mall (or even around back in those old strip malls with rear stores or a basement) and you're fine.   

Online GCrites80s

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #115 on: January 11, 2018, 04:46:45 PM »
Not until every car and phone has had that for 15 years and everybody knows how to use it and uses it constantly.

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #116 on: January 12, 2018, 07:35:31 PM »
I don't use my phone's maps much, and my car doesn't have a link.  But I recently rented a car that automatically linked my phone, and noticed that various retailers show up unannounced on the car's screen.  This sort of thing has to be hurting the value of malls and even higher-value corner locations.  If a business that used to need premier visibility doesn't need it anymore then the value of retail nodes doesn't even matter so much.  Set up in an obscure strip mall (or even around back in those old strip malls with rear stores or a basement) and you're fine.   

I was about to say exactly that to the post above.  Depending on what you sell, walk-by visibility in the internet age is overrated.

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #117 on: January 12, 2018, 09:56:09 PM »
I found out today that GameStop in one of our malls is closing. Sales were fine at the location, but they and the mall got locked into a rent dispute. The mall is also doing pretty well for having lost Sears, but Sears wasn't really that important taken to the bare walls as they all are today. We shall see if being the only video game store in the mall is good for business or if we lose too many crossover customers. If interest in games in the mall drops too much due to GameStop's absence within a year or two I might be looking for something else to do with my life. 40 isn't a bad age to be seeking a major change to something more stable.

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #118 on: February 01, 2018, 11:15:42 PM »
I found out today that GameStop in one of our malls is closing. Sales were fine at the location, but they and the mall got locked into a rent dispute. The mall is also doing pretty well for having lost Sears, but Sears wasn't really that important taken to the bare walls as they all are today. We shall see if being the only video game store in the mall is good for business or if we lose too many crossover customers. If interest in games in the mall drops too much due to GameStop's absence within a year or two I might be looking for something else to do with my life. 40 isn't a bad age to be seeking a major change to something more stable.

Surprise! Despite large signs posted all over the store a couple weeks ago saying that they were closing they have decided to stay. Much in the same way ESPN drags the customers into contract disputes by getting blacked out by DirecTV for a few days, GameStop has decided not to leave the mall. I bet they got what they wanted.

Offline dave2017

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Re: Dead Malls
« Reply #119 on: February 02, 2018, 04:26:50 AM »
Video of Euclid Square Mall's  destruction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=816&v=OUc5R8A2qfs