Author Topic: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)  (Read 140403 times)

oudd and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online taestell

  • Global Moderator
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7732
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5430 on: July 02, 2018, 01:49:36 PM »
It looks like that parking lot is paved with permeable pavers, not asphalt. If that's the case, it might be primarily for drainage reasons, but might also be because they know it's going to be temporary and be torn up in a few years for new development.

Offline jwulsin

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 2322
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5431 on: July 02, 2018, 02:01:08 PM »
It looks like that parking lot is paved with permeable pavers, not asphalt. If that's the case, it might be primarily for drainage reasons, but might also be because they know it's going to be temporary and be torn up in a few years for new development.
I hope you're right, but I was wondering if the pavers cost more or less than typical asphalt. Based on just my own assumptions, I though the pavers would be *more* expensive, due to extra labor involved.

Offline JYP

  • Global Moderator
  • Burj Khalifa 2,722'
  • *****
  • Posts: 1589
    • Urban Cincy
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5432 on: July 02, 2018, 03:05:44 PM »
Jose Garcia did a rendering of a hotel/office/residential structure for the large race and liberty lot. He posted it on his Instagram around November of last year.

 Not sure why Jose did a full rendering for 3cdc if they are paving it into a parking lot...unles 3cdc is purposely waiting for the liberty street diet to occur first.

Someone told me it was a conceptual design for some competition he was involved in.
“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline 1400 Sycamore

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 302
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5433 on: July 02, 2018, 03:24:52 PM »
It looks like that parking lot is paved with permeable pavers, not asphalt. If that's the case, it might be primarily for drainage reasons, but might also be because they know it's going to be temporary and be torn up in a few years for new development.
I hope you're right, but I was wondering if the pavers cost more or less than typical asphalt. Based on just my own assumptions, I though the pavers would be *more* expensive, due to extra labor involved.

The grading and placement of pavers without materials is more than the demo and installation of asphalt including materials. Asphalt is the temporary surface. They are not allowed to use aggregate. Asphalt is the next step up from that.

Online troeros

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 343
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5434 on: July 04, 2018, 08:31:12 PM »
The latest hcb had info on rehab of 1626 walnut st and a roof top deck addition, and the rehab of a historic garage on Findlay st and turning it into a bar/restaurant.

Offline jwulsin

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 2322
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5435 on: July 05, 2018, 10:36:57 AM »
The latest hcb had info on rehab of 1626 walnut st and a roof top deck addition, and the rehab of a historic garage on Findlay st and turning it into a bar/restaurant.

Also in that packet, there's work proposed for 26 W McMicken, adding new balconies and windows... the architectural drawings for the interior are a bit funky (can't tell what's existing vs proposed, and the plans are several years old, so it's not clear what will be completed right now)...  but in any case, glad to see work being done on that building, since it's quite large. Hopefully they will be replacing the glass block windows that face McMicken.

Offline jwulsin

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 2322
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5436 on: July 05, 2018, 04:02:11 PM »
Urban Sites is going to renovate 1200 Race St, which consists of 16 apartments: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/07/05/exclusive-urban-sites-upgrading-apartments-along.html


Not sure if any major exterior modifications will be made, but they'll be putting in central air, so at the very least the window AC units will be removed.

Online troeros

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 343
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5437 on: July 05, 2018, 04:25:41 PM »
Was it low income housing before then?

Offline brian korte

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 338
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5438 on: July 05, 2018, 04:27:34 PM »
Exterior modifications include paint and tuckpointing.


It was not low income housing; just low-end market rate housing.

Online troeros

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 343
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5439 on: July 11, 2018, 12:15:21 PM »
Thank god! Parking Requirements rule will go away by August for new businesses/housing development in OTR. Was such a stupid requirement and thank god level heads prevail.

Offline thebillshark

  • One World Trade Center 1,776'
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5440 on: July 11, 2018, 12:32:51 PM »
Well wasn’t expecting this:

Cincinnati plan would allow new housing, businesses in OTR without new parking

https://cin.ci/2zuTUCT

Gonna need all urbanist hands on deck to support this one.

Big picture thought on parking minimums: how absurd (and how much hubris is it) is it that we think it’s possible to micromanage the parking spaces of thousands of residents, visitors, and downtown workers, with dynamic needs that change over time, that together function as an organic, non-linear system, anyway? No wonder minimums cause market distortions and prevent growth. They are ham-fisted interventionalism.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 12:56:12 PM by thebillshark »

Online troeros

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 343
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5441 on: July 11, 2018, 01:00:11 PM »
How would this affect density in otr? Was parking requirements really an issue for density before? I was under the impression developers just weren’t interested in creating more dense unit housing.

Offline Pdrome513

  • Dirt Lot 0'
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5442 on: July 11, 2018, 01:02:39 PM »
Well, fore example, wasn't the new bar by the owners of Senate at the corner of Liberty and Walnut downsized because they had to include more space for parking?

Offline BigDipper 80

  • Key Tower 947'
  • ****
  • Posts: 841
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5443 on: July 11, 2018, 01:10:23 PM »
Quote
Cranley's stance has been the same all along: Citywide residents already helped bring the streetcar and Washington Park's makeover to Over-the-Rhine, so they should have access to parking.

This is the most absurd thing I've heard out of Cranley in a while; it's almost as if he doesn't understand how urbanism works...  ::)
“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

Offline jmecklenborg

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 15417
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5444 on: July 11, 2018, 01:14:26 PM »
Ironically, it looks like developers who funded Cranley might be pushing for this change. 

Online taestell

  • Global Moderator
  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7732
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5445 on: July 11, 2018, 01:17:19 PM »
City Council actually first introduced this change in 2012, but the city administration is just now getting around to implementing it, because Cranley.

Also, I wouldn't quite call it a "done deal" yet. There's some possibility that neighborhood NIMBYs will object and this change won't go through.

If you support the elimination of minimum parking requirements in OTR, you should probably send an email to the address on this postcard.

Offline DEPACincy

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 387
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5446 on: July 11, 2018, 02:10:28 PM »
How would this affect density in otr? Was parking requirements really an issue for density before? I was under the impression developers just weren’t interested in creating more dense unit housing.

It's just hard to fit parking in an urban environment so people end up using valuable space for parking. It also makes housing less affordable, adding thousands of dollars to the cost of development that gets passed on to consumers.

Offline jmicha

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4049
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5447 on: July 11, 2018, 02:15:53 PM »
And the reality is that development without attached parking does just fine. I bought my condo in Westfalen Lofts Phase 2 which had (I think) 42 units and no attached parking and they had zero issue selling them all. A big part of that was that the units were priced really well because the associated cost of the structured parking requirements for a development that size were non-existent. For those of us with a car in the building, we did whatever worked for us, whether that meant Washington Park Garage, parking in the unmetered parts of the area, somewhere else, etc.

Offline ucgrady

  • Rhodes Tower 629'
  • ***
  • Posts: 518
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5448 on: July 11, 2018, 02:21:17 PM »
Big picture thought on parking minimums: how absurd (and how much hubris is it) is it that we think it’s possible to micromanage the parking spaces of thousands of residents, visitors, and downtown workers, with dynamic needs that change over time, that together function as an organic, non-linear system, anyway? No wonder minimums cause market distortions and prevent growth. They are ham-fisted interventionalism.

This is a really good point. Besides the obvious burden to developers and historic preservation that the parking minimums create, we are assuming that in 10 years the same number of people will be driving and parking downtown. Between transit, uber/lyft, and future self driving technology we really have no idea what the parking will need to be in the future.

Especially in the historic districts and neighborhoods there should be absolutely no parking minimums, those neighborhoods were built before cars were even invented, so why try to shoehorn them in now? I don't care about downtown's requirements quite as much, but this should absolutely be applied to OTR and Pendleton.

Offline jjakucyk

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 2528
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5449 on: July 11, 2018, 02:29:29 PM »
Big picture thought on parking minimums: how absurd (and how much hubris is it) is it that we think it’s possible to micromanage the parking spaces of thousands of residents, visitors, and downtown workers, with dynamic needs that change over time, that together function as an organic, non-linear system, anyway? No wonder minimums cause market distortions and prevent growth. They are ham-fisted interventionalism.

I would say it's both micromanaging and a clumsy brute force situation.  It's micromanaged in the sense that there's specific requirements for nearly every type of housing or business, which makes changing uses very difficult later on, even if it's just changing from a dentist's office to an accounting firm.  On the other hand, the brute force nature of it is that parking is maximized to try to cover all worst-case scenarios, leading to huge redundancy and waste.  So it's not dialed-in per se, it's just "throw as much parking in as possible."

Offline mcmicken

  • Rhodes Tower 629'
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5450 on: July 11, 2018, 04:01:36 PM »
Well wasn’t expecting this:

Cincinnati plan would allow new housing, businesses in OTR without new parking

https://cin.ci/2zuTUCT

Gonna need all urbanist hands on deck to support this one.

Big picture thought on parking minimums: how absurd (and how much hubris is it) is it that we think it’s possible to micromanage the parking spaces of thousands of residents, visitors, and downtown workers, with dynamic needs that change over time, that together function as an organic, non-linear system, anyway? No wonder minimums cause market distortions and prevent growth. They are ham-fisted interventionalism.

While city staff is proposing a residential parking permit plan south of Liberty in conjunction with the elimination of parking requirements (which is fantastic), a better strategy would to hold off on the residential permits and a perform a comprehensive study of short and long term parking needs and how they will be addressed.

Locking in a poorly thought out residential permit plan in only a portion of the neighborhood will make it that much harder to have a more comprehensive solution in the future. The plan basically picks a random number of spaces and assigns them to be permit or flex spaces, with no understanding of the actual demand.

A comprehensive study should be undertaken with a portion of the additional funds being raised by the recent meter rate/hour hikes to have an independent third party analyze current and future demand when the neighborhood is fully built out. The study should also include short, medium, and long term solutions including with structured parking on a block by block level, mix of metered/free spaces, dynamic pricing, etc as well as additional transit options.

Offline BigDipper 80

  • Key Tower 947'
  • ****
  • Posts: 841
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5451 on: July 11, 2018, 05:38:41 PM »
I just noticed that the Enquirer headline about the relaxing of minimum parking is "Is parking going to get more difficult in OTR?", because of course that's what they would headline it as.
“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

Offline Jimmy Skinner

  • Burj Khalifa 2,722'
  • *****
  • Posts: 1870
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5452 on: July 11, 2018, 05:59:48 PM »
The proposed residential street parking is dumb, because all the side streets are already full of residents looking for places to park, and all this will do is make it harder for visitors to park and make residents buy permits.  There will be a lot more people trying to buy the permits than there will be spaces.

Offline BigDipper 80

  • Key Tower 947'
  • ****
  • Posts: 841
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5453 on: July 11, 2018, 06:09:10 PM »
Give OTR residents an option to buy a special Banks Garage pass that comes with a monthly streetcar pass. Heck, this should already exist anyway.
“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

Offline jmecklenborg

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 15417
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5454 on: July 11, 2018, 06:21:08 PM »
I just noticed that the Enquirer headline about the relaxing of minimum parking is "Is parking going to get more difficult in OTR?", because of course that's what they would headline it as.

Unfortunately I suspect that adventurous parkers are encroaching on Clifton Heights, as I increasingly see cars parked on the lower half of W. Clifton, below the Bellevue Incline pier.  Earlier this year, while UC was still in session, I saw overnight parking take almost every possible spot between Hastings and Vine.  That's a huge number of people in that area with cars that didn't have cars in 2012 when I moved to Mulberry St. 

So along with resident parking for OTR, it might soon be needed for Clifton Heights below Warner St. 

Offline BigDipper 80

  • Key Tower 947'
  • ****
  • Posts: 841
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5455 on: July 11, 2018, 06:51:01 PM »
I just hope they don't discover Prospect Hill - I can usually find at least one spot up there whenever I need to go downtown for something, and I'd prefer not to lose that!
“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

Offline jmecklenborg

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 15417
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5456 on: July 11, 2018, 07:03:35 PM »
I just hope they don't discover Prospect Hill - I can usually find at least one spot up there whenever I need to go downtown for something, and I'd prefer not to lose that!

Findlay Market is completely reliant upon cars...hopefully Findlay Playground can be rebuilt in the next five years with an underground garage and then the current lots can be redeveloped one-by-one. 

Offline bendixondavis

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 370
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5457 on: July 11, 2018, 08:20:08 PM »
I just hope they don't discover Prospect Hill - I can usually find at least one spot up there whenever I need to go downtown for something, and I'd prefer not to lose that!
That's how I felt about clay street 6 or 7 yrs ago.

Offline mcmicken

  • Rhodes Tower 629'
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5458 on: July 11, 2018, 10:45:55 PM »
The proposed residential street parking is dumb, because all the side streets are already full of residents looking for places to park, and all this will do is make it harder for visitors to park and make residents buy permits.  There will be a lot more people trying to buy the permits than there will be spaces.

And because Cranley insists that OTR pay for everything themselves the program has to be financially self sufficient, unlike every other neighborhood it has been enacted in, meaning permits will probably cost a couple hundred bucks a year. Can you imagine the outcry when someone spends that money and won't even be able to use it?

Offline Jimmy Skinner

  • Burj Khalifa 2,722'
  • *****
  • Posts: 1870
Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5459 on: July 11, 2018, 10:51:18 PM »
^exactly.  I'll spend $150 for a residential parking permit and meanwhile, every space on my street is already taken with meters, so I try to get one of the un-metered spaces 2 blocks away, and their already full with the residents who live on that block. 

Maybe just meter every space and be done with it.