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Projects And Transportation => Southwest Ohio Projects & Construction => Topic started by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 01, 2011, 08:54:40 AM

Title: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 01, 2011, 08:54:40 AM
Short Vine's newest plan: Apartments, retail
10:03 PM, Aug. 31, 2011
Written by
David Holthaus
dholthaus@enquirer.com



A 100-year-old school building would be demolished and a new city block with more than 100 apartments would be built in its place under the latest plan to resuscitate Short Vine Street in Corryville and upgrade the area around the University of Cincinnati.

Developers are planning a $20 million project that includes tearing down the former Schiel School, which Cincinnati Public Schools officials closed in 2010. In its place would be 102 apartments designed for graduate students, medical students and workers at nearby hospitals. On the ground floor, three or four stores are planned, including a Fifth Third bank branch as the anchor.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110901/BIZ01/109010311/Short-Vine-s-newest-plan-Apartments-retail?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Business (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110901/BIZ01/109010311/Short-Vine-s-newest-plan-Apartments-retail?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Business)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: PhattyNati on September 01, 2011, 09:08:03 AM
Shameful demolition aside, this is the best proposal ive seen for infill in this area.  This could be a very nice addition to the University area and hopefully would inspire others to reach a little higher than the norm in future projects.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 01, 2011, 09:08:53 AM
I agree, I don't like seeing demolition either, but school buildings are a pretty tough re-use.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on September 01, 2011, 10:23:45 AM
Actually I can't believe it, but the rendering of the place looks pretty good.   Particularly for who's building it.  :-o

Still is there any way they could have taken the castle facade off of the school?  And I'm still cynical, lets see how it looks completed :P.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: exurbkid on September 01, 2011, 10:39:38 AM
Uptown Property's continued raping of Corryville and CUF Heights' historic fabric...

"But that would have resulted in a $7 million loss on the investment"
This statement bothers me so much. $7 million loss on the investment? So they are still making money... just $7 million dollars less?

"The developers considered re-using the old school, pitching it to the University and nearby hospitals, but none could find a way to use it."
Maybe the developers could open their eyes and see what is being done to the Fairview German Language School. It is actually quite amazing to see them salvaging this building!

Conservation is being totally ignored for laziness and because someone wants to make a buck by giving Cincinnati another homogeneous-Main-Street-USA-Disneyland development. When did people stop deserving a quality product?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on September 01, 2011, 11:43:01 AM
Quote
"The developers considered re-using the old school, pitching it to the University and nearby hospitals, but none could find a way to use it."
Maybe the developers could open their eyes and see what is being done to the Fairview German Language School. It is actually quite amazing to see them salvaging this building!

Conservation is being totally ignored for laziness and because someone wants to make a buck by giving Cincinnati another homogeneous-Main-Street-USA-Disneyland development. When did people stop deserving a quality product?


I agree with you 100%.  Sadly all this stuff was set in stone behind closed doors years ago, just proving how poor democracy is for local neighborhoods unless they have a community council that well represents the community instead of outside interests with a stake.   I don't know why they are going ahead with such a blatant 1960s style urban renewal, to what is IMO one of the most beautiful neighborhoods in the midwest.  Its really criminal, and speaks to just how f-d up Cincinnati is when it comes to this stuff.

Cincinnati is San Francisco that aspires to be Indianapolis, seriously :P.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: mcadrenaline on September 01, 2011, 12:02:15 PM
From the article: "It's either a vacant building or doing something that will jump-start our businesses," said Mike Ealy, community council president.

This statement is sad but true I think, especially with a still-uncertain financial environment for developers. That $7 million is not chump change, please don't make it out to be nothing, exurbkid.

I also think that Short Vine is a crucial component to moving the Uptown area forward; this project takes care of a major site that might otherwise sit empty. Couple that with the fact that this building will likely see 100% occupancy with a waiting list before it even opens, and I support this project. This area desperately needs housing like this.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: seicer on September 01, 2011, 12:02:36 PM
Uptown Property's continued raping of Corryville and CUF Heights' historic fabric...

I can go on and on about Uptown's (and other companies) demolition of Uptown, including the Friars' Club, but in reality, many of these buildings are not suitable for mass housing developments.

Quote
"But that would have resulted in a $7 million loss on the investment"
This statement bothers me so much. $7 million loss on the investment? So they are still making money... just $7 million dollars less?

No, it means that when you add in the purchasing price of the property, and the renovation of the building to suit the needs of an apartment complex, it would be cost prohibitive. They are in the business of generating a profit - and if CPS is selling the school at a high value - as they should since it is on a prime corner of land next to the University of Cincinnati, then that potential for renovation goes down. School renovations are always tricky - if the layout is right on the inside, then tearing down walls and adding in amenities like bathrooms is not as bad. But this school's layout is not as straightforward. You can only get so many units out of the building, and because of that there is not that revenue that will be generated to pay off the development.

Quote
"The developers considered re-using the old school, pitching it to the University and nearby hospitals, but none could find a way to use it."
Maybe the developers could open their eyes and see what is being done to the Fairview German Language School. It is actually quite amazing to see them salvaging this building!

Fairview was sold for a VERY cheap price (I was at the auction), and thus the purchase price is FAR lower than Schiel. There is also much more square footage to work with at Fairview, and more potential for more units.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on September 01, 2011, 12:31:00 PM
Speaking of re-purposed schools, it would be amazing if there actually was someone with both the creativity and resources to pull off something like this in Cincinnati...

http://www.mcmenamins.com/427-kennedy-school-home (http://www.mcmenamins.com/427-kennedy-school-home)

I'm amazed how a city that for the most part looks like a giant Reading or Lockland set in a temperate rainforest manages to do so much more with so much less :P.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on September 01, 2011, 02:56:39 PM
If the choice is between a new dense 5-story mixed use building and a repurposed school like the abomination of the old Walnut Hills High School on Burdett Avenue (http://g.co/maps/apv7), I'll take the new building.  I've not been impressed with the school/condo conversions I've seen around here.  They have such low occupant densities for the most part that they tend to be dead weight on the neighborhood.  The monumental way the buildings are put on their sites (one of the few urban buildings that actually work with a buffer of grass around them) made them very vulnerable to having that buffer zone paved for parking or play areas.  When converted to residential use, that area either remains parking (like Chase School in Northside) or becomes a barren no-go land (like the Burdett Avenue school).  If the old SCPA was to be converted to residential use, you can bet it would remain surrounded by parking, and that's no good.  That doesn't mean an office would be any better, but they are difficult buildings to repurpose. 

In this particular case, the school as well as the library and fire station across the street have a marked deadening effect on the block.  Something much more dense with a positive ground floor relationship to the sidewalk is necessary to help that stretch of Short Vine. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Civvik on September 01, 2011, 05:00:27 PM
If the choice is between a new dense 5-story mixed use building and a repurposed school like the abomination of the old Walnut Hills High School on Burdett Avenue (http://g.co/maps/apv7), I'll take the new building.  I've not been impressed with the school/condo conversions I've seen around here.  They have such low occupant densities for the most part that they tend to be dead weight on the neighborhood.  The monumental way the buildings are put on their sites (one of the few urban buildings that actually work with a buffer of grass around them) made them very vulnerable to having that buffer zone paved for parking or play areas.  When converted to residential use, that area either remains parking (like Chase School in Northside) or becomes a barren no-go land (like the Burdett Avenue school).  If the old SCPA was to be converted to residential use, you can bet it would remain surrounded by parking, and that's no good.  That doesn't mean an office would be any better, but they are difficult buildings to repurpose. 

In this particular case, the school as well as the library and fire station across the street have a marked deadening effect on the block.  Something much more dense with a positive ground floor relationship to the sidewalk is necessary to help that stretch of Short Vine. 

Well put.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Matthew Hall on September 01, 2011, 05:58:29 PM
couldn't new construction be built along side the school?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: seangray on September 01, 2011, 06:17:38 PM
Since this is Uptown Rentals we are talking about expect all the upper parts of the building in the rendering shown in white to be cheap vinyl siding.  It will not turn out like the rendering.

$20mil seems low for a project of this size.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: exurbkid on September 01, 2011, 06:19:37 PM
I can go on and on about Uptown's (and other companies) demolition of Uptown, including the Friars' Club, but in reality, many of these buildings are not suitable for mass housing developments.

I'm not arguing that they re-purpose the building as housing. A neighborhood needs diversity. I presented Farview as an example of keeping a historic urban school mostly intact, not as an example of what should be done with a historic building. What's everyone's fixation with mass housing developments anyways? Wouldn't an equally advantageous use of money be a mass updating of the current housing infrastructure? Who is spearheading that business? I would rather live in a building with character and history than a sterile, cheaply built, out of scale building.


Quote
No, it means that when you add in the purchasing price of the property, and the renovation of the building to suit the needs of an apartment complex, it would be cost prohibitive. They are in the business of generating a profit - and if CPS is selling the school at a high value - as they should since it is on a prime corner of land next to the University of Cincinnati, then that potential for renovation goes down. School renovations are always tricky - if the layout is right on the inside, then tearing down walls and adding in amenities like bathrooms is not as bad. But this school's layout is not as straightforward. You can only get so many units out of the building, and because of that there is not that revenue that will be generated to pay off the development.

Perhaps it doesn't need to be a housing development. Consider this. Consider "redevelopment" "revitalizes" Corryville... wouldn't that mean that Corryville would need a school? A community center? Some type of institutional space? Clifton has the Clifton Cultural Arts Center... That's excellent use of a school building. Maybe the building becomes an extension of the Neihoff Studio. I dont know... for every massive housing development, maybe there should be an institution nearby. Density needs to offer occasional respite. I felt the article was too dismissive about the University and the Hospitals to convince me that they were either were seriously considered in this equation... but, I know nothing but what I felt when I read the dismissive statement.

Does anyone recognize that this would be the TALLEST development in Corryville? Maybe one building in Corryville makes it to 5 stories. Most are 3 stories. I think that it is largely out of scale and if anything, harms the urban fabric more than helps it. Bing Maps birds eye view is pretty convincing of this. The development is right across the street from 2 story townhouses! To argue that this new development is consistent with the urban fabric of Corryville is delusional.

And seriously... how much longer until post modernism goes away?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on September 01, 2011, 07:38:45 PM
In this particular case, the school as well as the library and fire station across the street have a marked deadening effect on the block.  Something much more dense with a positive ground floor relationship to the sidewalk is necessary to help that stretch of Short Vine. 

I'd say it's pretty handy having a fire station and library around, though, no? The library is a Carnegie.

It's really tough to get good results out of school to apartment conversions. Makes me think of the old Ashville School that got turned into Hinkle Apartments a.k.a. Hinkle's Hatchery. In fact, I'd say the school was kind of a plague on Short Vine because of the huge asphalt lagoon around it. It only came in handy for Bogart's parking and dads tailgating before high school games on Fridays. Though that horrible '50s post office gives it a run for its money.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on September 01, 2011, 08:49:57 PM

I'd say it's pretty handy having a fire station and library around, though, no? The library is a Carnegie.

Handy yes, but a station like that shouldn't really be on a pedestrian-focused street.  If it was closer to the sidewalk and had a bit more character, and only one or two bays (think Hyde Park Square or Ludlow and Clifton) then it'd be ok.  The library is awesome architecturally, but it doesn't engage the sidewalk.  Having a monumental building isolated on its site works in an urban environment only when it stands alone among the dense and more day-to-day fabric surrounding it.  When you have more than one of those types of buildings in a single location (like the library, and a school, and also the fire station) it becomes more suburban in character.  Above all, the point is that even if the school and the library are nice buildings, and they are, they along with the fire station basically mark the end of a good pedestrian zone because there's nothing there to engage the pedestrian's interest.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: seicer on September 01, 2011, 09:57:31 PM
I would agree that the school is a complete dead space. Most of the conversions to residential units typically leave it either as surface lot, or as grass which is completely out of character for what Short Vine is being envisioned as. From Louisville, Ky. to Midway, Ky., to Wheeling, W.Va. and even in Cincinnati, I have yet to see a great reuse of a school that doesn't enhance the street corridor. It's not to say that the project was not a success - it saves a building from demolition, but there are many factors that go into if the reuse of a building is practical or not.

With this new proposal for a new structure, you are obtaining 102 units plus first floor retail, which brings in more revenue to the developers. If you keep the existing school site, you are only obtaining just 40 units and zero retail. Retail generates higher leases than typical residential rents, and you need a critical mass of residents to generate retail spaces.

I should add that you need a particular demographic to generate retail spaces. We aren't talking about Linn Street and that failed West End development, but something along the lines of University Park.

And you need more residents to support the Corryville Crossings development at the junction with MLK, which has no other street facing retail because it has not been built yet due to a lack of pedestrians and residents. For what its worth, that is a mess of a development - the Hampton Inn doesn't even face the street.

Finally, this is a private development. The school isn't being demolished with federal monies, so no Section 106 review required, et. al. And with private money, you are responsible to your shareholders and/or to your employees. So purchasing the school from CPS at a high price - because they are wanting to make a buck off of this valuable land too, and then converting it to 40 leased units that don't generate the return-on-investment as say, condos, you run a deficit of $7 million. It's just not a profitable project, which is the end all for all private development. Demolishing the school, which is not historic nor is all that interesting outside of the front facade, and converting it into a better and higher density use, generates the best bang for a private developer.

FYI, I don't like most of Uptown's properties, but I was able to see a detailed rendering of this. If it looks as nice as what was handed out, then this should be a sell out project that is next door to UC. It provides a needed shot in the arm to revitalizing the declined Short Vine district.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Civvik on September 01, 2011, 11:04:22 PM
Since this is Uptown Rentals we are talking about expect all the upper parts of the building in the rendering shown in white to be cheap vinyl siding.  It will not turn out like the rendering.

$20mil seems low for a project of this size.

It's only 100 units. 200 g-spots per unit should get them something decent.

Not luxury, but decent.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: seicer on September 01, 2011, 11:46:19 PM
Well, you are targeting young professionals that pretend to have a lot of money, and students that have no money :)

I wouldn't put it past them to use the awful stucco-like material that is on 65 West instead of siding. Is there a design standard on Short Vine?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: bigredmachine on September 05, 2011, 11:45:55 PM
This discussion reminds me of the Bass Lofts complex in Atlanta's Little Five Points neighborhood.  The building is a 1920s high school and gym/auditorium with a couple newer structures on the site. I love how they have kept much of the classic "charm" of the school while giving it a modern feel... Check it out: http://basslofts.com/ (http://basslofts.com/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: oakiehigh on September 06, 2011, 10:34:45 PM
^Wow, that's nice!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on December 30, 2011, 06:36:23 PM
So I decided to go for a walk through Corryville this afternoon during a break of the rain.  There are four major projects that will be going on in Corryville this year.  1 is just beginning (Schiel), one is almost finished (Euclid), one is underway (vine) and a fourth is likely to break ground later this year (stetson Square expansion).

There is no general Corryville/Short Vine thread, so forgive me for combining all of these here but they are all close to each other.  If a Mod wants to move these to a new thread, feel free.


Schiel demolition almost complete, probably will be done tuesday or Wednesday depending on weather.
>(http://i40.tinypic.com/15ytes1.jpg)

From outside the library at Daniel & Vine.
  From this point you could see both the new Schiel development & the almost finished Uptown development that is between Euclid & Van.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2rcy4qf.jpg)


Standing at Van Street, these actually don't look too crappy.  Much better than 65 West. BUT never fail, I'm sure they will screw it up with Childs Playpen Colors for the balconies.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/544f9.jpg)


Standing at Van & University- Back of Euclid/Van Development.  Immediately behind me is the Vine Flats development.
From the corner of Seminole & University you can see all three developments at once.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/5v4nbp.jpg)


Vine St. Flats Development across from Post Office
>(http://i44.tinypic.com/m9yjqq.jpg)


Sign for Vine St. Flats -
Also an Uptown (Dan Schimberg) development (nearly all of his developments in uptown are aimed only at College students, shared living rooms, individual room leases, etc.)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/fkmcjn.jpg)


Stetson Square Expansion Finally, a couple blocks away, Setson Square is getting ready to develop this block at Eden & Rochelle.  This will be condos, not apartments. 
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2duyvwj.jpg)


IMHO Corryville is being overwhelmed with rental units.  I'm glad Stetson is expanding with condos, as, to maintain stability during a period of growth, you need more permanent residents, not just college kids who are in and out in a couple years.   

Also, with such a HUGE influx of rental units in large buildings, I'm concerned that the Old Standby style apartments in Clifton Heights & Corryville, the slightly beat up Italianate's that need a makeover and some TLC will lose their residents.  And considering how cheap many of the landlords are, they probably will begin renting to lower income tenants. Which in and of itself is not bad. there always needs to be affordable housing, but having borderline absentee landlords rent beat up old buildings to lower income tenants is NOT the right way to do affordable housing- that won't help better the community. 

At the same time, it's good to see investment in this neighborhood.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: City Blights on December 30, 2011, 07:40:08 PM
^Nice analysis, OC.  The aluminum Euclid development is a travesty, but Stetson filling in and the other projects may hide that embarrassment.  Every city has some awful infill, but at least we're getting infill in Cincinnati after many years of enjoying an urban core that resembled southern France after the Second War.

MLK has come a long way, still irked by the ugly office bldg by UDF and all the surface parking/suburban apts on the UC side though.  There's always Taft to make MLK look good, which wasn't quite Nero in the womb but represents everything wrong with early 20th century Cincinnati planning.  Unnatural boulevards stunt the potential of Walnut Hills and Mt. Auburn.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on January 02, 2012, 03:16:43 PM
I guess this is "better" than how it was before. Do keep in mind that while the architecture of the old stuff that was in this area certainly more pleasing, there was high vacancy and there were a lot of unruly tenants. Unfortunately, since not enough investors feel that merely rehabbing the old buildings through here would generate enough interest, we wind up with this stuff -- which certainly could be worse.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 11, 2012, 03:12:47 PM
A block away, Uptown Properties purchased and has evicted the tenants of the notorious Section 8 building of 2700 Euclid.  This building appeared to have 20-30 units and was the source of the majority of the problems in the area. 

Renovation work hasn't started, aside from the appearance of this sign:
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/euclid-2.jpg)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/euclid-1.jpg)

New apartment that replaced the victorians:
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/euclid-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on February 11, 2012, 04:44:38 PM
^-I'm glad to see that section 8 building being remodeled, that place was always pretty run down.  I wonder if they'll redo the porches, it looks like there is a nice 2nd empire underneath brick porches that were added later, or or those in fact originals? Credit is due where credit is due and I do give uptown props (pun intended) for improving the neighborhood.   My older critiques still stand though until I see better designed infill from them :).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 11, 2012, 05:22:43 PM
Yeah those porches were definitely added.  There was nearly constant drug dealing on this corner up through 2009, when I think Uptown Properties started not renewing leases.  I haven't seen any problem people over there for at least a year.  I do think that the porches actually kept the area from totally devolving, since there were some decent people who lived in the building and kept watch over what was going on. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on February 29, 2012, 11:53:12 PM
I just noticed that renovation sign says Apartments & TOWNHOMES.  am I to believe that Uptown is actually going to support Home ownership in Corryville!?  That would be amazing. 

Corryville & CUF need major investments in ownership properties because as all these new apartments open sending kids from converted houses into massive student housing developments absentee landlords will likely just replace college kids with section 8.

And while I'm all in support of well managed affordable housing (Model does a pretty good job through brickstone) I'm not a fan of random landlords just filling their run down buildings with vouchers. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on March 01, 2012, 11:15:16 AM
Right now at least this massive influx of student housing is improving the safety of Corryville which in turn is causing some remodels.  There is an apartment on Rochelle even where they are adding a rooftop deck and gutting a long abandoned and poorly rehabbed building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on March 02, 2012, 01:03:56 PM
^ correct, but it's having the reverse effect on CUF, where all these kids are leaving.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on March 02, 2012, 04:56:58 PM
^-I would think with the sheer amount of students now going to UC that things would be good all over the campus area.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on March 03, 2012, 03:10:43 PM
Drive around CUF and then drive around Corryville.  Corryville is now cleaner with less graffiti.  CUF looks horrible lately. Trash covered side walks for blocks. Graffiti on every stop sign, every no parking sign and on many buildings filled with residents. I remember 4-5 years ago when CUF was fine and Corryville was scary and dangerous.  Now walking around Corryville is nice and CUF has taken a huge dive!

Wonder if the City or Uptown Consortium have any plans to fix up CUF now.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on January 31, 2013, 05:01:53 PM
Got out to photograph some stuff today, including the Schiel School redevelopment which is coming along. The building has a pretty massive presence already and it's only half finished. I really dislike how the rear of the site is, but the Vine side seems like once finished i t may actually be nice...ish. They were testing hardiboard siding though and it looked...well like how hardiboard always looks...bad. The windows being installed appeared to be nice. I didn't see who the manufacturer was though, so who knows. Anyway, here's some pictures, with bonus pictures of the finished Vine Street Flats since I don't know what thread that project would even fit in.

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_153011_744_zpscbb1a802.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152933_100_zps181f5cdd.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152927_678_zpsbfeaca0b.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152629_234_zpsdbc6cf30.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152623_327_zps234d784d.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152555_878_zps93ee2015.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152508_039_zpsec416adb.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152501_843_zps3f032a97.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152430_610_zps98463aea.jpg)

So yeah, there's that. I'm not holding my breath, but here's hoping one of the many projects around UC will actually impress when finished.

Here's the finished Vine Street Flats. Better than the little hideous strip mall thing it replaced. The design actually has some potential, but then they went and ruined that potential with the weird little red wings, the use of brick where brick wasn't necessary, and all around lack of design finess. Oh well, it adds density to Short Vine which is nice. I'm hoping the strip mall that is a block or so away gets redeveloped sometime soon as well.

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152704_876_zps8a1ef41f.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152727_821_zps09570d28.jpg)

(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag30/Miffiffippi/Around%20UC/IMG_20130131_152740_718_zps2fd3be83.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: seicer on January 31, 2013, 05:04:17 PM
I'm not a fan of those latter windows, nor the brick. Did you check out the crap on Euclid?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on January 31, 2013, 05:05:54 PM
I didn't take any photos since I was kind of pissed off about them haha. The design sucked on the corner of McMillan and Ohio, and it certainly still sucks on Euclid. I forget what firm did the design work for those projects, but they should be ashamed.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Jimmy_James on February 07, 2013, 09:49:48 AM
Here's the finished Vine Street Flats. Better than the little hideous strip mall thing it replaced. The design actually has some potential, but then they went and ruined that potential with the weird little red wings, the use of brick where brick wasn't necessary, and all around lack of design finess
Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26241.0.html#ixzz2KE0TXeAI (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26241.0.html#ixzz2KE0TXeAI)

Yeah, those red strips just look terrible.  Otherwise it's okay, I guess.  Whenever I see a new building like this, I can't help but wonder how dated it is going to look in 20 years.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: TheCOV on February 07, 2013, 10:40:49 AM
Total fail.  I no longer care if a project brings street life or density or anything to these streets.  I'll take the empty buildings that we lost instead.  It's all just so damn ugly.  Seriously, this rubbish looks like 1960's era East European apartment blocks.  I don't think people realize how little historic stock is left, and the old school could have provided a foundation and point of reference for what remains.  As more of this CRAP gets built, it only makes these CRAPPY developers more brazen and willing to eliminate what's left of our collective history.

I am just so ashamed of our society that we build this junk.  I'm getting to the point that the announcement of a new project in certain hoods actually makes me scared of what junk will befall us, instead of being excited about the prospect of new development.

The city needs to make a stand.  IF YOU WANT TO DESTROY AN OLDER STRUCTURE, WHAT REPLACES IT MUST BE OF HIGHER QUALITY.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyIntheKnow on February 07, 2013, 11:10:29 AM
Thank this guy.


And what is the point of posting this profile?  Totally uncalled for.  Considering all the factors that go into the final execution of a built design, hardly worth villifying the designer (if it in fact was him).  Mods should remove this.

Am I happy with it?  No.  But everyone needs to remember, that if building these developments in a nicer manner was economically feasible or in high enough demand, someone would have stepped up to do it by now.  They aren't, so this is what we are stuck with.  You want better bad enough, either build up demand or step up and do it yourself. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on February 07, 2013, 02:04:54 PM
^??? There's nothing offensive about that post. It was a link to a public work related profile that lists him as the architect of the project. Someone asked "what firm did this" and by searching, the only thing that could be found was the architects public LinkedIn page that lists the project someone asked about. It's not like I posted his home phone number or said Burn him Alive! Public LinkedIn pages aren't some sacred personal thing.

Actually- I don't think the Schiel project is all that horrible. Some of the stuff on Euclid is pretty bad, but Schiel might be ok, and I have no complaints over Vine St Flats especially considering what it replaced
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: JoeC23 on February 07, 2013, 03:09:38 PM
Total fail.  I no longer care if a project brings street life or density or anything to these streets.  I'll take the empty buildings that we lost instead.  It's all just so damn ugly.  Seriously, this rubbish looks like 1960's era East European apartment blocks.  I don't think people realize how little historic stock is left, and the old school could have provided a foundation and point of reference for what remains.  As more of this CRAP gets built, it only makes these CRAPPY developers more brazen and willing to eliminate what's left of our collective history.

I am just so ashamed of our society that we build this junk.  I'm getting to the point that the announcement of a new project in certain hoods actually makes me scared of what junk will befall us, instead of being excited about the prospect of new development.

The city needs to make a stand.  IF YOU WANT TO DESTROY AN OLDER STRUCTURE, WHAT REPLACES IT MUST BE OF HIGHER QUALITY.

Seriously? A lot of what you (and others here) are complaining about being demolished is of little architectural significance and would have been called 'junk' by your definitions when it was constructed. Yeah the Schiel School was designed by a prominent architect but what exactly was so great about it other than it was old and designed by a famous guy? It was functionally obsolete for its use and would have never been economically practical to convert to any other uses such as condos or apartments.

If it wasn't demolished it would have likely have sat empty just like all of Cincinnati's other vacant school buildings. 
 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on February 07, 2013, 04:43:02 PM
"If it wasn't demolished it would have likely have sat empty just like all of Cincinnati's other vacant school buildings."

Just like the former SCPA (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2013/01/developer-to-turn-former-scpa-school.html) and Northside's Kirby Road School (http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2013/01/kirby-road-school-recommended-as-local.html) and Fairview German Language School (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/11/16/story27.html?page=all) and Walnut Hills' Schoolhouse Lofts (http://schoolhouselofts.net/). But you know... they're all vacant
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: JoeC23 on February 07, 2013, 05:50:20 PM
The vast majority of the buildings abandoned by CPS either sit vacant or have been torn down. The buildings that you cite are a statistical anomaly and are greatly outnumbered by schools that have not been sucessfully redeveloped into apartments or any other use. SCPA has unique circumstances due to its location and size which make a redevlopment profitable.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on February 07, 2013, 06:19:57 PM
Quote
The vast majority of the buildings abandoned by CPS either sit vacant or have been torn down. The buildings that you cite are a statistical anomaly and are greatly outnumbered by schools that have not been sucessfully redeveloped into apartments or any other use. SCPA has unique circumstances due to its location and size which make a redevlopment profitable.

But isn't the schiel site also a potentially profitable site as its right next to a University with plenty of demand for high priced student housing?

On the flip side I heard there was tons of absestos which made redoing it not very feasible.   I would have liked to have seen the castle facade saved, but actually feel that the current building is a better use as its mixed use.   The design is better than most developments from what I've seen, but its still not quite as good as it could be.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on February 18, 2013, 09:41:35 PM
This isn't the right place to put this, but as far as I know there isn't a Corryville thread.

Santa Ono has stated on Facebook that Taste of Belgium is opening a place on Short Vine. This is super awesome news! I love Taste of Belgium and will definitely be going there once it opens.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: natininja on February 18, 2013, 11:00:01 PM
^ Very good news! Great spot for a ToB.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on February 18, 2013, 11:35:03 PM
I wholeheartedly agree! If I had to guess I'd say that come five years from now Short Vine is going to be exploding with activity. Taste of Belgium is going to be a nice draw for Corryville and will hopefully encourage others to follow suit.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on August 12, 2013, 12:28:12 PM
Just so everyone is aware, I have merged the Schiel School redevelopment page with a couple of posts that were in the wrong thread (CUF thread talking about Taste of Belgium). The Schiel School topic was pretty far off topic anyway talking about other projects in the Corryville/Short Vine area so I decided to just rename it and merge it with a couple of posts for easier digestion. Let me know if you have any concerns.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 12, 2013, 12:57:15 PM
After seeing pictures - the Schiel development is pretty terrible IMO - it tries to incorporate historic features and fails miserably by sticking Vinyl siding in all the wrong places and just generally having an awkward shape.  I would have been happier with a street facing brick facade and a back vinyl or cement block facade.   More garbage replacing great old buildings :(

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 12, 2013, 01:04:28 PM
The thing on Short Vine is probably better than U Square. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 12, 2013, 01:05:27 PM
Not only that but even more sh!t is in the works: http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2013/08/council-approves-plan-for-160-unit.html (http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2013/08/council-approves-plan-for-160-unit.html)

[Edit: Knee Jerk reaction due to looking at the wrong block, the housing there is nothing special for the most part]

There are some lovely old victorians there!  So f-ing typical.  Yet the CPA doesn't have like some kind of watch list?  They are f-ing useless :(
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on August 12, 2013, 01:28:41 PM
^ What old victorians?  There's two sort-of-ok row houses on Euclid, and a mish-mash of early 20th century bungalows and 1 1/2 story row houses on Charlton.  There's some nicer houses on the OTHER side of Euclid, but that's not part of this project.  It looks like they're tucking the larger building inside the block and surrounding it with some lower-profile townhouses, which isn't so bad.  This block is woefully underbuilt for its location as it is.

I do find it sad that these projects all come with a large parking garage.  Maybe if they did actual townhouses with their own independent garages they wouldn't need to build a whole separate parking structure which then requires the rest of the project to be scaled up to yield a reasonable return on investment. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 12, 2013, 01:39:56 PM
My bad, I was looking at the wrong block.  There is literally only one townhouse that's worthwhile there, its not much.   Still I hope they are going to up their quality of infill.   I kind of knee-jerked, mainly because its amazing how these projects keep getting pushed through and people don't usually know of them unless they are on the Comm Council until its too late to do anything about them.

It would be nice if the Corryville Comm Council did maintain and even pay for their website which is cybersquatted btw.

Quote
The thing on Short Vine is probably better than U Square.

Agreed, its a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on August 13, 2013, 11:54:16 PM
The thing on Short Vine is probably better than U Square.

Ya. It's actually not that bad. Could have been better absolutely but not horrendous.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on August 18, 2013, 04:59:56 PM
Here are some updated photos I took on my phone this week of the "Views on Vine" development at the old Schiel School. Definitely the best new development that Uptown Rentals has ever done. That doesn't mean it's awesome or even what I would want in that space, but definitely a step up.

It appears they still have a lot of storefronts to rent out and that people have already moved in to the apartments above. I think this will be a great thing for Corryville's nightlife and vitality.

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u434/ryanlammi/IMG_20130815_200018_919_zps8ea7ded5.jpg)

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u434/ryanlammi/IMG_20130815_200013_251_zps8f55cd95.jpg)

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u434/ryanlammi/IMG_20130815_200008_665_zps94e94b49.jpg)

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u434/ryanlammi/IMG_20130815_200005_034_zpsbf64a6ff.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on August 18, 2013, 06:40:21 PM
Right down the street at Rochelle and Eden the first two buildings of the 18 condo unit development as the next phase of Stetson square is under construction.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 19, 2013, 12:33:07 AM
^-That's a lot better than the giant pit that was there the last few years... :P
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 21, 2013, 11:24:33 AM
Saw this article in Soapbox, but its pretty slim on details as to what's getting demoed and what (if anything) is being kept.... :P

http://soapboxmedia.com/devnews/082013shortvinedevelopments.aspx


Does anyone know more details?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 21, 2013, 10:26:32 PM
Unfortunately I'm sensing that they know they can't get every single storefront rented, especially when the new apartments have had ground level retail built.  There was the plan 3 years ago to tear down everything on the Martino's side.  I really hope that that plan is dead, or that at the least they would preserve the facades. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on August 21, 2013, 11:21:38 PM
Here's the one thing that may have saved that entire side of the street.

In 2009 the Martino's owners (Anguilli family) plan was to demolish everything on the east side of the street (across from Bogarts).  They didn't get funding. Plan died.

In 2011, the Anguilli family bought the HIDEOUS crap development just north of Charlton on the east side of the road (for $1.5 million!)

Now, if they want to build a big massive new development, they may be more likely to take that down as it has a much larger footprint for a larger garage and more apartments and is hideous and in need of massive repairs to that garage.

Here's to hoping that hideous 80's thing comes down and the historic part of the block stays.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 21, 2013, 11:32:41 PM
^Hmmm....the two buildings on the same side of that block just south of the Niehoff Studio are up for sale, listed at $500,000.  That is way to high in my opinion, so they are clearly hoping that someone eyeing what us Short Vine old timers will always remember as being the 24-hour Kinko's building are attempting to assemble that block, with the exception of Niehoff obviously. 

However I don't see why someone couldn't just keep the existing garage and build a mid-rise apartment on the site of the Kinko's and its majestic ATM plaza.  The development next to Staggerlies on the old backpack store property is about 195x55.  The Kinko's has almost exactly the same 190-200 feet of frontage on Vine and is about 180 feet deep on its north side.  So they could put something bigger in there without having to build a parking garage.     

The big prize though is the Post Office property.  It is has a footprint about identical in size to the big thing that just went up on the Shiel School site. 

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: helmespc on August 22, 2013, 12:14:34 AM
The Angiulli's have some renderings of their vision of Short Vine (at least from charlton to corry) on the walls of Martino's... mostly looks like renovated buildings with decent streetscaping. Nothing as drastic as downing the whole block....

I'd love to see the old plaza and crummy parking garage go poof... it really kills the flow of that side of the street. The old La Rosa's on the other side needs to go too.... or at least get a makeover.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on August 22, 2013, 12:23:53 AM
No developer would ever consider keeping that garage.  It doesn't meet most codes, it's not up to standards of any kind.  If they demolish the buildings (which they totally should) that thing is going away.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: natininja on August 22, 2013, 12:36:38 AM
Short Vine could seriously use rail transit.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 22, 2013, 01:15:48 AM
That garage along with the plaza was built around 1993 or 1994.  What about parking garage code has changed?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 22, 2013, 03:05:15 AM
Quote
The Angiulli's have some renderings of their vision of Short Vine (at least from charlton to corry) on the walls of Martino's... mostly looks like renovated buildings with decent streetscaping. Nothing as drastic as downing the whole block....

Do you by chance have said rendering or know if its online somewhere?  I had heard the plan to demo everything, and am glad that that's not what seems to be going on right now.

I'd be happy if the 80s stuff comes down, shame that garage supposedly isn't usable, as it probably could have provided the parking for any new development allowing developers to spend less and (hopefully) up quality of design.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: hoerstw on August 22, 2013, 08:28:25 AM
Martino's does have renderings up on the wall (I snapped a few pics, but do not have them on me).  They look nice.

It all seemed to be renovating the facades and re-doing the street with brick not pavement. I think much of the renovated office space will be in collaboration with UC/P&G for their innovation center concept. They have a construction management office set up in one of the buildings with all of the drawings and specs etc... a couple of the buildings on the martinos side as well as the bogarts side have been basically stripped down and gutted.  I am not sure of the timeline but things seem to be progressing and demolition does not seem to be their intent.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: hoerstw on August 22, 2013, 08:31:35 AM
Actually found some of the renderings. but they wont post on the forum for some reason.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on September 18, 2013, 09:48:25 AM
From the Cincinnati Restaurant topic:


Firehouse on Short Vine to become Ladder 19
09/17/13 at 2:09pm by Polly Campbell
   

Short Vine, the stretch of Vine Street in Corryville a few blocks from the east side of UC, is the next Cincinnati neighborhood to get a serious makeover. A new streetscape project, construction of new residential units, and a strong  influx of new businesses is transforming the area best known as the home of Bogart’s.

Among those new businesses is a restaurant and bar called  Ladder 19,  which will open in the old firehouse that  was the home of Zino’s  decades ago.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/dining/2013/09/17/firehouse-on-short-vine-to-become-ladder-19/ (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/dining/2013/09/17/firehouse-on-short-vine-to-become-ladder-19/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Ram23 on September 18, 2013, 06:05:41 PM
From the Cincinnati Restaurant topic:


Firehouse on Short Vine to become Ladder 19
09/17/13 at 2:09pm by Polly Campbell
   

Short Vine, the stretch of Vine Street in Corryville a few blocks from the east side of UC, is the next Cincinnati neighborhood to get a serious makeover. A new streetscape project, construction of new residential units, and a strong  influx of new businesses is transforming the area best known as the home of Bogart’s.

Among those new businesses is a restaurant and bar called  Ladder 19,  which will open in the old firehouse that  was the home of Zino’s  decades ago.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/dining/2013/09/17/firehouse-on-short-vine-to-become-ladder-19/ (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/dining/2013/09/17/firehouse-on-short-vine-to-become-ladder-19/)

I wonder if it will stay true to the character of Short Vine and include a nostalgic fire pole that will ultimately double as a stripper pole for drunk 19 year olds?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 24, 2013, 09:30:08 AM
Short Vine makeover takes another step
Apartment building opens with full house
Sep. 23, 2013
Written by Cindi Andrews



The rebirth of Uptown’s Short Vine Street as a place to live and eat will take another step forward Tuesday with the official opening of Views on Vine.

The $20 million project, by Uptown Rental Properties, includes 104 one- to three-bedroom apartments above 17,000 square feet of street-level retail just east of the University of Cincinnati. The headliner, a new Taste of Belgium restaurant location, will open in two weeks.

“What’s occurring is a renaissance,” said Dan Schimberg, president of Uptown Rental Properties, which has already built several other apartment/retail projects in the five-block stretch.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130923/BIZ/309230118/Short-Vine-makeover-takes-another-step?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130923/BIZ/309230118/Short-Vine-makeover-takes-another-step?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on October 21, 2013, 04:32:29 PM
New restaurant, bar project planned for Short Vine: EXCLUSIVE
October 21, 2013
Tom Demeropolis | Courier



Dan Schimberg’s vision for Short Vine just keeps getting bigger. Schimberg is president of Uptown Rental Properties LLC, which owns, manages and develops residential rental units across Cincinnati. “This is the hottest up and coming business district in the city,” Schimberg said.

And Schimberg isn’t just saying that. In recent years, Short Vine has been booming, adding a number of new restaurants, such as Taste of Belgium and Mio’s Pizzeria. And Uptown Rental Properties, with partner North American Properties, has built a number of new apartments in the area. Views on Vine opened earlier this year, and their next apartment project, which will add 166 apartments on Euclid Avenue, is a $30 million project. By 2015, a total of 1,000 more people will be living on Short Vine, just east of the University of Cincinnati main campus.

Schimberg’s latest acquisition is a large shopping center right in the heart of Short Vine. An affiliate of Uptown Rental Properties purchased the Colonnade at Corryville for more than $1.5 million. The property is located at 2718 Vine St.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/10/21/new-restaurant-bar-project-planned.html

This is very interesting.  He's moving all clients out, and will do a "couple" million dollar renovation to the entire property. Removing the dated 90's era sculpture thing and renovating all storefronts.  He wants to attract bars and restaurants and will renovate the garage. I'm pretty surprised by this actually.  This 1 story late 80's/early 90's development is ripe for a teardown and rebuild with multi story housing.  He says he'll have more details in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on October 22, 2013, 09:25:56 AM
Wow. Very interesting. This spot currently is nothing more than an unofficial urban skateboard park.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on October 22, 2013, 12:19:21 PM
I'm glad to see that shopping center get updated, the whole place screamed 1990, all it needed was something in hot pink ;)

I hope there will be residential there too, as long as the market can bear it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on October 29, 2013, 09:17:07 AM
Uptown Rental Properties sez, "Construction on the new Uptown Rental community at Charlton and Euclid has begun! Open fall 2015!"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXvv9jxCUAEolx-.jpg:medium)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: scottytri on December 20, 2013, 11:32:09 PM
Quote
"Beginning in December, new streetscapes will be added along Short Vine. The streetscapes will bring a bit of nostalgia to the area, and Short Vine will look like it did in the 1800s—think cobblestone streets, rolling curbs and antique streetlamps. Changes will be made to parking as well, including efforts to preserve on-street parking, and additional parking for the public and residents. Sidewalks will also be widened for outdoor dining."

I have not noticed any work start, have you guys noticed the upgrades starting?

 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: TheHemroid on December 21, 2013, 01:27:58 PM
This is great news.  I just can't wait until they transform the Kroghetto.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: helmespc on December 21, 2013, 04:50:08 PM
La Rosa's should either scuttle or renovate their short vine location... it might be their worst franchise in the city. With the amount of decent pizza restaurants in the area, I don't know how they compete up there.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on May 01, 2014, 12:11:54 PM
During last week's special session on the Central Parkway bike lane, Michael Moore mentioned something about turning Short Vine into a "festival street" where there'd be no curbs and pedestrians would have equal rights as cars. Has anybody heard more details on this proposal?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on May 01, 2014, 12:17:07 PM
I missed that part of the meeting. My initial reaction is to support this. I would love to hear more details about this, though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on May 01, 2014, 12:29:23 PM
I think Short Vine would be an ideal candidate for this kind of project. Close proximity to campus but with limited thru-traffic. A reconfigured street would could bring a big increase in retail and foot traffic. And it would be a great venue for special events, festivals, markets.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on May 01, 2014, 12:29:36 PM
Yeah I heard that months ago.  But who cares about a "festival street" if everything's chains and music sucks now?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on May 01, 2014, 12:59:27 PM
I wasn't aware Martino's, Dive Bar, Island Frydays, Whole Nine Yards, The Cupboard, Mike's Music, Saturday's, Cincy Steak and lemonade, Mt. Olive Market, the numerous tattoo parlors and beauty salons, Alabama Que, Daniel's Pub, The 86 Club, Staggerlee's, and the Corryville Public Library were all chains.

Also, most of the chains opening up are regional (Taste of Belgium, Mio's, Donato's, etc). The older ones like Papa John's and Domino's have been there for a long time.

And I won't comment on the music comment because that's just dumb.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: thomasbw on May 01, 2014, 01:16:48 PM
During last week's special session on the Central Parkway bike lane, Michael Moore mentioned something about turning Short Vine into a "festival street" where there'd be no curbs and pedestrians would have equal rights as cars. Has anybody heard more details on this proposal?

I heard that years ago, glad its moving forward. They cut down all the trees on that street as well so it looks like something is starting soon.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on May 01, 2014, 01:46:59 PM
I wasn't aware Martino's, Dive Bar, Island Frydays, Whole Nine Yards, The Cupboard, Mike's Music, Saturday's, Cincy Steak and lemonade, Mt. Olive Market, the numerous tattoo parlors and beauty salons, Alabama Que, Daniel's Pub, The 86 Club, Staggerlee's, and the Corryville Public Library were all chains.

Also, most of the chains opening up are regional (Taste of Belgium, Mio's, Donato's, etc). The older ones like Papa John's and Domino's have been there for a long time.

You forgot about the prosthetic leg guy -- not a chain. 

I remember when the "festival arches" that are there now were installed, around 1992.  That's also when the little shopping center with the parking garage was built.  That attempt to yuppify Short Vine ended in shambles, as the crowds attracted by Bogart's, etc., were so large and uproarious (Slayer, Ministry, etc.) that people seeking to maintain a respectable reputation didn't go to Short Vine.  The high point of the absurdity were BW3's complaints that the Bogart's crowd was hurting their business, then everyone else complaining that BW3's 10-cent Tuesdays were destroying their business.  And they were -- 10-cent wing night drew literally 1,000+ people who rode sport bikes and loitered on that strip.  The clash of cultures was amazing, like a few blocks of the Sunset Strip transplanted to the Midwest.   

The only question is will this current effort neuter Short Vine once and for all? 


Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: natininja on May 01, 2014, 03:14:50 PM
I believe it's the perfect spot for such a project, and will be even nicer w/ streetcar tracks running through it.

Great environment for urban tailgating for UC games...as opposed to a parking lot built over Burnet Woods, which a vocal segment of the Bearcat fanbase seems to want.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on May 05, 2014, 01:57:01 PM
During last week's special session on the Central Parkway bike lane, Michael Moore mentioned something about turning Short Vine into a "festival street" where there'd be no curbs and pedestrians would have equal rights as cars. Has anybody heard more details on this proposal?

It doesn't sound like that's what's happening. The sidewalks will be widened and utilities will be put underground, but it will not become a "festival street" (if a lack of curbs is a defining characteristic of such a street).

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/news/short-vine-streetscape-improvement/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on May 05, 2014, 02:28:50 PM
The fact that they're installing bollards implies that it will be easy to close the street down for events and festivals. It would have been nice to have a curbless design (similar to what's been done on Georgia Street in Indianapolis, but that's extremely expensive and I imagine unfeasible with just City dollars). Overall, it sounds like it'll be a big improvement. The utility undergrounding alone will make a dramatic difference on the aesthetics of the street.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on May 06, 2014, 12:22:22 PM
At this point I think no one is considering the Streetcar for Short Vine.  Rather, keeping the entire streetcar on Jefferson.  I'm fine with that, as the streetcar would move even more slowly on Shortvine and separating the north and south tracks by 580 feet is a bit silly. Downtown they're separated by about 490 feet, which is really around the maximum you would want.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on May 06, 2014, 12:24:02 PM
 

The only question is will this current effort neuter Short Vine once and for all? 




Seriously?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: natininja on May 06, 2014, 01:01:05 PM
At this point I think no one is considering the Streetcar for Short Vine.  Rather, keeping the entire streetcar on Jefferson.  I'm fine with that, as the streetcar would move even more slowly on Shortvine and separating the north and south tracks by 580 feet is a bit silly. Downtown they're separated by about 490 feet, which is really around the maximum you would want.

If one direction is on Short Vine, I'd expect both directions to be.

Development potential is far higher (less walkshed sunk into UC). Vine is obviously far more pedestrian friendly. I'm not sure about the effect on speed, but walking distance to more destinations is cut and the appeal of walking somewhere from/to the stops is increased. Remember this is a streetcar, not LRT (any sacrifice in speed would be far less than that of inefficiently winding around the CBD). Overall, Vine is far better IMO. Especially if University Plaza is utilized, which is really a golden opportunity for the city to make a crappy space into a good one (or at least push it in a better direction) while simultaneously streamlining the streetcar route.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on May 06, 2014, 11:11:09 PM
Festival streets and streetcars don't go well together. If the plan had been to have both directions on Short vine that would be one thing- but every image I've ever seen showed one direction on Jefferson and one direction on Vine.  I've heard Uptown wants to have it closed every friday night in the fall and spring. That's a lot of streetcar not operating if it's on Vine. 

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: natininja on May 07, 2014, 01:25:29 AM
There would have to be a bit of a balance, but I don't buy that festival streets and streetcars don't work well together, because I've seen them work pretty well in Europe. It's possible designers would have to come up with a way to subtly (and/or perhaps not so subtly) say "don't hang out on the streetcar tracks," but that's certainly doable without scrapping the festival street spirit. Put the tracks and stops in the middle of the road so it's just one condensed strip to avoid standing on. Put some yellow textured paving on the sides to denote caution. Stencil "do not stand on tracks" between the tracks if necessary. Maybe give the track bed a few inches of elevation (with gentle "curbs" that don't pose a problem for wheelchairs, etc.). I don't know, study best practices in similar spaces elsewhere.

Certainly ceasing streetcar operations on Friday nights would be out of the question, but if the street is crowded and the driver has to slow down and ding-ding a bit on his way through, that's acceptable on Friday nights IMO -- it's not like there will be a ton of people hurrying to work, and it gives streetcar riders something fun and lively to look at. The street can be closed off to auto traffic and not streetcars. Yes, it precludes setting up a stage across the centerline of the road every Friday. So what? Work with the space available, of which there is plenty. If people on the tracks is a problem on Fridays, temporary barricades could be set up at intervals to clearly mark the trackbed as somewhere not to stand but also easy to cross.

Here's a picture from Denver, where there's a lane for a bus but there is clear overall priority to pedestrians on the streetscape:
(http://www.fta.dot.gov/images/photos/Denver_1.JPG)
I don't think pedestrians are tempted to hang out in that bus lane, but I don't think they feel intimidated by it either. That is how I envision streetcar tracks on Short Vine to be.

Here's a much narrower street in Amsterdam, showing shared space w/ pedestrians and a streetcar:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4147/5052266488_479011a613_z.jpg)
Short Vine would not have these space constraints, so it should in fact be more functional than this example (where some level of pedestrian-streetcar conflict appears evident).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ajknee on May 07, 2014, 07:24:36 AM
The Uptown Transit District was designed with the streetcar in mind. Metro is planning for a streetcar down Jefferson. Ever since Kroger decided not to work with the idea of accommodating the streetcar on University Plaza property, all signs have been pointing to Jefferson. I think Jefferson makes more sense from a transit planning perspective anyway.

I think we need to decide if the ultimate goal is to design the streetcar for transit or for economic development. Obviously they aren't mutually exclusive, but if economic development if the goal then running the streetcar down Findlay, up Vine, across University Plaza, and down Short Vine makes most sense. (As a regular transit rider, I will continue to ride Metro*Plus between the two ends  in this scenario because it's a lot faster and easier.). If a convenient and popular transit route is the goal, then building the Clifton shortcut as John Schneider proposed and running down Jefferson makes more sense.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: natininja on May 07, 2014, 08:55:36 AM
I'm not convinced Jefferson is better from a transit planning perspective. I'm only partially talking about development as in raising property values. I am primarily talking about building density and an environment hospitable for transit to thrive and grow. Unless you're coming from UC, you'll be crossing Jefferson to get from anywhere to the southbound stops. Yuck! That's a huge barrier and will greatly damage the usefulness of the line, its impact on the city, and the growth potential of transit that needs a critical mass of development density (TOD) and ridership. Also keep in mind that by virtue of being a streetcar, there is a lean toward economic development over speed. I am all for speed where it makes sense, and for building track that can double as light rail track. But a streetcar through Corryville should absolutely go through the heart of Corryville.

Edit: And if the problem is that the private sector isn't being cooperative re: University Plaza, that is what eminent domain is for.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: seicer on May 07, 2014, 08:59:35 AM
Well, Kroger is not even locating its new store in Corryville, so that redevelopment is now moot.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ajknee on May 07, 2014, 10:02:13 AM
Is the MLK Kroger a done deal? I thought that was a rumor still.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on May 30, 2014, 09:55:20 AM
Photos of the new Uptown Rents apartment complex at East 30 Corry Street:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on May 30, 2014, 09:56:55 AM
Short Vine is being torn up and all of the trees are down. That street is not very attractive without the trees. Hopefully they can replace the trees with somewhat mature ones quickly.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on May 30, 2014, 09:58:11 AM
Photo of the Short Vine sidewalk work being done. Looking north from Corry St:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on May 30, 2014, 10:09:16 AM
Short Vine is being torn up and all of the trees are down. That street is not very attractive without the trees. Hopefully they can replace the trees with somewhat mature ones quickly.

The sad thing is that business owners don't like trees because it hides their signs, so they lobby to have them chopped down and replaced with something small and spindly, then those gets chopped down when they get too big.  While there's plenty of trees out there that will form a nice high canopy when they're mature, I don't think there's any that won't bush out when they're young. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Yves Behar on May 30, 2014, 10:45:13 AM
How about run a good business and not worry about the dam sign.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on May 30, 2014, 10:51:24 AM
^ You can make the same argument about parking availability, but they'll still bitch and moan like the world is coming to an end. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on May 30, 2014, 11:04:31 AM
How about run a good business and not worry about the dam sign.

Signs are very, very important. Word of mouth and internet help a lot, but if casual customers don't know you're there you're out. We had a location where we were almost all word of mouth and internet with few stroll-ins and it was maddening. Every visit was "planned out" and the customers were all experts that only wanted highly unusual items. Word of mouth without anything else works for auto mechanics, handymen and insurance salesmen but not storefronts. Signs and trees can coexist if the sightlines are right.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on May 30, 2014, 11:25:44 AM
How much does it cost to buy mature trees? I'm sure they're much more expensive than buying a young tree from a nursery, but perhaps the additional expense would be small relative to the overall cost of these streetscape projects? I know they planted some mature trees at Smale, and it helps make the park feel like it's been there for more than just a year. On Short Vine, ideally they would plant mature trees with the canopies already above the sight-lines for the signs. I have no idea how expensive those kinds of trees would be. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on May 30, 2014, 11:35:56 AM
If you could get a tree large enough that its canopy started above sign level (I would say 15 feet or so, thus it would have to be at least 30-40 feet tall in total) it would not only be fantastically expensive, like a minimum of $1,000 each, if not triple or quadruple that with installation, but it would need to be brought in with a large tree spade, and I don't see being able to dig a hole that big in an urban streetscape.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on May 30, 2014, 11:36:49 AM
For streetscaping they have to be the kind where the roots go straight down into the ground rather than out like most trees do so that they don't ruin the sidewalk in 2 years.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: j3shafer on May 30, 2014, 12:26:33 PM
If you could get a tree large enough that its canopy started above sign level (I would say 15 feet or so, thus it would have to be at least 30-40 feet tall in total) it would not only be fantastically expensive, like a minimum of $1,000 each, if not triple or quadruple that with installation, but it would need to be brought in with a large tree spade, and I don't see being able to dig a hole that big in an urban streetscape.

Easily. Where I work, we require 3-inch caliper trees at the time of planting for street trees and depending on the type of tree it can range but $400 - $800 is probably in the ballpark. That is probably about a 15 foot tall tree. So double that for something in the 30 foot range. Landscapers and developers will complain about the price and availability of a 3-inch caliper tree so I can't imagine what something twice that size would cost. The double or triple estimate would be pretty accurate. 2 to 2.5 inch caliper seems to be a much cheaper and more heavily available size.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: j3shafer on May 30, 2014, 12:33:05 PM
How about run a good business and not worry about the dam sign.

Signs are very, very important. Word of mouth and internet help a lot, but if casual customers don't know you're there you're out. We had a location where we were almost all word of mouth and internet with few stroll-ins and it was maddening. Every visit was "planned out" and the customers were all experts that only wanted highly unusual items. Word of mouth without anything else works for auto mechanics, handymen and insurance salesmen but not storefronts. Signs and trees can coexist if the sightlines are right.

Signage is hugely important to most non-destination businesses that heavily rely on catching passing traffic. I'm not familiar with the city's or neighborhood's sign regulations. In these walkable districts, sometimes it makes sense for Codes to allow businesses a larger amount of pedestrian oriented signage (blades, sandwich boards, and window) to compensate for smaller or obstructed building signage. Building signage and visibility to motorists is important but on a pedestrian oriented, lower speed street, I definitely would not let it trump any greater streetscape enhancement initiatives. A good compromise can sometimes be ornamental trees. They don't get as  high as one would typically like to see but they do provide plenty of greenery/color at the pedestrian level and don't look like twigs. I have seen these used a lot of times when there are overhead utility restrictions.

There also certain tree species whose crowns are more vertical than they are horizontal. They look like big Q-tips. This can also be an option. I don't think they are as attractive but they are better than nothing.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Ram23 on May 30, 2014, 12:57:12 PM
If you could get a tree large enough that its canopy started above sign level (I would say 15 feet or so, thus it would have to be at least 30-40 feet tall in total) it would not only be fantastically expensive, like a minimum of $1,000 each, if not triple or quadruple that with installation, but it would need to be brought in with a large tree spade, and I don't see being able to dig a hole that big in an urban streetscape.

Easily. Where I work, we require 3-inch caliper trees at the time of planting for street trees and depending on the type of tree it can range but $400 - $800 is probably in the ballpark. That is probably about a 15 foot tall tree. So double that for something in the 30 foot range. Landscapers and developers will complain about the price and availability of a 3-inch caliper tree so I can't imagine what something twice that size would cost. The double or triple estimate would be pretty accurate. 2 to 2.5 inch caliper seems to be a much cheaper and more heavily available size.

Not to mention, larger trees are more likely to react poorly to relocation, and will either stagnate for a few years while they reestablish their root system, or just not take to the transplant and die. Even when you have a client that can afford it, they usually back off when you tell them it's going to look worse before it looks better.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: j3shafer on May 30, 2014, 01:00:22 PM
If you could get a tree large enough that its canopy started above sign level (I would say 15 feet or so, thus it would have to be at least 30-40 feet tall in total) it would not only be fantastically expensive, like a minimum of $1,000 each, if not triple or quadruple that with installation, but it would need to be brought in with a large tree spade, and I don't see being able to dig a hole that big in an urban streetscape.

Easily. Where I work, we require 3-inch caliper trees at the time of planting for street trees and depending on the type of tree it can range but $400 - $800 is probably in the ballpark. That is probably about a 15 foot tall tree. So double that for something in the 30 foot range. Landscapers and developers will complain about the price and availability of a 3-inch caliper tree so I can't imagine what something twice that size would cost. The double or triple estimate would be pretty accurate. 2 to 2.5 inch caliper seems to be a much cheaper and more heavily available size.

Not to mention, larger trees are more likely to react poorly to relocation, and will either stagnate for a few years while they reestablish their root system, or just not take to the transplant and die. Even when you have a client that can afford it, they usually back off when you tell them it's going to look worse before it looks better.

Excellent point. A 100% survival rate after planting rarely happens even in good soil so at least some of trees would have to be replaced again and there is still no guarantee that they would take. Trees will grow to a limit of what the surroundings can support. Plopping a 30 - 40 tree down in an soil that really is not going to support a tree that large would also be a mistake.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on May 30, 2014, 01:12:32 PM
If the rumors are true and Kroger intends to not rebuild the Corryville store, it will be interesting to see what goes in its place.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyIntheKnow on May 30, 2014, 01:43:34 PM
If the rumors are true and Kroger intends to not rebuild the Corryville store, it will be interesting to see what goes in its place.

I still think this site would solve a lot of problems for UC and 5/3 Arena.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on May 30, 2014, 02:58:22 PM
UC wants to renovate Fifth Third Arena to make it seat *fewer* fans (easier to sell out games, better sight-lines, more suites)... I think they're pretty set on not building a new basketball arena.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: CincyIntheKnow on May 30, 2014, 03:06:32 PM
UC wants to renovate Fifth Third Arena to make it seat *fewer* fans (easier to sell out games, better sight-lines, more suites)... I think they're pretty set on not building a new basketball arena.

They are set on renovating 5/3 because they are land locked.  If this opens up then they can build a brand new state of the art arena while still occupying 5/3, then move in at completion.  If 5/3 was to be remodeled they would have to rent US Bank during construction, and it was going to amount to no more than lipstick on a pig. (i.e. no major changes).  A brand new building and they can compete directly with US Bank Arena for shows and events.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ajknee on May 30, 2014, 04:41:45 PM
I'm just excited at the prospect of some different grocery chain coming to that site.  I understand how Kroger moving to MLK is a good deal for Kroger, but there's definitely still a market for a grocery story near campus.  I could easily see the University Plaza plan modified to be more urban scaled with a more urban minded chain like Trader Joe's or something similar moving into that site.  And while we're at it, bring the streetcar station back to the plan!

Before we all go crazy though, does anybody know if the Kroger move is a done deal?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: thebillshark on May 30, 2014, 09:10:28 PM
My apologies if this is covered elsewhere on this site but I see you mentioned a streetcar "station" at University Plaza instead of just a stop.  Would the idea be to connect an East-West line going from Hughes High School to Walnut Hills along the Calhoun/Taft/McMillan corridor with the North-South line coming from downtown going up to the hospitals and zoo? (or would it be the northern terminal of a gondola lift coming from up the basin? :) )

Very interesting suggestion to put a new UC arena at University Plaza- makes sense on a few different levels, the first being staying in the same neighborhood as the students.  My question would be if that would helpful to the city in the recent situation we had in trying to land the RNC.  I suppose it would be feasible to use if connected to downtown by the streetcar. 

Agree campus area could still use a close in grocery store if Kroger moved to MLK interchange. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on May 31, 2014, 02:39:46 PM
My apologies if this is covered elsewhere on this site but I see you mentioned a streetcar "station" at University Plaza instead of just a stop.  Would the idea be to connect an East-West line going from Hughes High School to Walnut Hills along the Calhoun/Taft/McMillan corridor with the North-South line coming from downtown going up to the hospitals and zoo? (or would it be the northern terminal of a gondola lift coming from up the basin? :) )

Very interesting suggestion to put a new UC arena at University Plaza- makes sense on a few different levels, the first being staying in the same neighborhood as the students.  My question would be if that would helpful to the city in the recent situation we had in trying to land the RNC.  I suppose it would be feasible to use if connected to downtown by the streetcar. 

Agree campus area could still use a close in grocery store if Kroger moved to MLK interchange. 

Not much thought has yet been put into what path the streetcar would take once it gets uptown. Still a lot of factors up in the air.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: bendixondavis on June 03, 2014, 05:58:27 AM
http://www.urbancincy.com/2014/06/construction-work-on-30m-corryville-apartment-project-on-pace-for-fall-2015-completion/

Sounds like good news for urban development and increasing density.  Good to know this is not just planned as student housing as well, which will increase the likelihood of sustainability considering rising cost of school.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 03, 2014, 08:25:30 AM
http://www.urbancincy.com/2014/06/construction-work-on-30m-corryville-apartment-project-on-pace-for-fall-2015-completion/

Sounds like good news for urban development and increasing density.  Good to know this is not just planned as student housing as well, which will increase the likelihood of sustainability considering rising cost of school.

...if you mean it will drive down the cost of renting in houses, which I suspect all of these recent projects have.  It is insanely cheap to rent a room in a house anywhere around UC, like typically under $400/mo.  I paid more than that to rent a room in a house at OU more than 10 years ago.  It was cheaper to live in Cincinnati than a college town then and now. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on June 03, 2014, 09:14:07 AM
^Agreed. I had friends who rented a 5 bedroom house in Athens for about $600 a piece per month. Though it was in quarterly payments instead of monthly. Strange how different the housing market is there.

I got a 1 bedroom apartment for a year at UC for about $515 a month right on McMillan by Quiznos. Average housing prices are only going up with the new construction. I'm not sure the effect it is having on the existing housing prices, though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on June 03, 2014, 09:58:13 AM
The old houses and apartments don't have the Supermax security level.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on June 03, 2014, 10:18:14 AM
Out of curiosity, why do people rip on these developments so much for having secure entry? All other things aside (since I think these are mostly awful developments, but for other reason) this is no different than literally any other large building anywhere. They all have some form of secure entry. When you have hundreds of people in one building it's the only possible way to have consistency in only allowing residents in. And that's no different than locking your front door on your house. It's not a public building so it shouldn't allow anyone else in but it certainly won't have "Supermax security levels." That statement is ridiculous. Having a key swipe entry type system isn't supermax level and I can pretty much guarantee that's what it'll have. That argument has always felt completely ridiculous to me since if you live in any large building anywhere you'll have some form of secure entry.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on June 03, 2014, 10:57:00 AM
To me college needs to be more than net surfing, Netflix streaming and video games. That's all you can do in those controlled environments. Sitting out on the porch with a beer as girls stroll by then come up and smoke a J with you doesn't happen if you're all locked up.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on June 03, 2014, 11:20:44 AM
...so you're saying that literally every single person should have the same college experience as you? I lived in one of these types of buildings for a year (hated it for other reasons) and I wasn't "all locked up." That implies you can't leave which is hardly the case.

Some people aren't interested in sitting on a porch, drinking a beer, and having random people come 'smoke a j' with you. But that doesn't mean they aren't out doing other things. You're implying that if you live in any other form of residential building other than a house you can't have spontaneity in your life which is highly inaccurate.

And based on what I saw from friends who lived in McMillan Manor (or whatever the hell it's called these days) the random people coming over, partying, joining in with new people, etc. does happen in these places, it just differs in how it occurs.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on June 03, 2014, 12:08:42 PM
I guess what surprises me the most about these units is how nice they are, particularly given the financial realities of being a student.

I always kind of viewed the college experience as either dorm life or living in a kind of run down apartment building not living in a secure entry 1000/mo apartment building - an obscene price by Cincinnati standards and I'm going off of what they were when I was in college... (I'm sure the prices are even higher now since the apartment crunch hit).   Not everyone is a trust fund kid, and even some who are probably should have to understand at some point the realities of not having much money.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 03, 2014, 12:50:34 PM
There are huge class divides in college.  It shows itself in the cars people drive, the places they live, and the drugs they can afford.  People look at UC as having improved because wealthier people are sending their kids there now.  If you look at US demographic trends, births plummeted in the 1970s but returned to baby boom numbers by the early 1990s.  That's why more people are in college now.  Meanwhile tons of white people are inheriting more money than ever before as the WWII generation, which was the first to benefit from employee stock purchase plans, retire.  That's why the luxury car makers are poised for massive growth in upcoming decades, along with these insanely overpriced student housing complexes. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on June 03, 2014, 01:36:55 PM
I think the problem is that these aren't 1000/mo apartments yet many talk as if they are. 500-600 per month per person all inclusive is basically the same or only slightly more than the average house which comes out to around 400/mo per person plus utilities, internet, etc. I paid $515/month in UPA and I know at the time McMillan Manor was 550/month for the 4-person rooms. Both those were all inclusive. All four houses I've lived in have fallen into the 500-550/mo. range when everything is said and done. These aren't any more overpriced than most houses are in the area. There are a handful of small buildings pushing 700/month per person but those aren't the norm.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 03, 2014, 02:09:15 PM
It needs to be pointed out that a "plex", which is an apartment building with at least 8 units, is much more profitable for a landlord than is a single family house, duplex, or 4-family.  The so-called cap rate can easily top 10% whereas a house like the ones in CUF rarely beat 5%.  In other words if you have $1,000,000 to invest it's much wiser to buy a 20-unit building than 10 2-bedroom houses. 

The problem is that these larger investors often get tax breaks and other incentives (U Square is LEED certified, for example) that small-time landlords can't get on top of the inherent advantage of those larger complexes.  There is little to no tax incentive for small-time landlords to fix up their properties, that's why you see all these hillbilly landlords driving their rentals into the ground.  If you want to see the quality of housing improve for single-family rentals, there has to be a reversal of the tax situation -- taxes that incentivize renting homes (especially historic homes) rather then tearing them down for these soulless complexes.  The problem is that Cincinnati's property tax is so damn low to begin with there is hardly anything to incentivize. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on June 03, 2014, 02:11:03 PM
I think the problem is that these aren't 1000/mo apartments yet many talk as if they are. 500-600 per month per person all inclusive is basically the same or only slightly more than the average house which comes out to around 400/mo per person plus utilities, internet, etc. I paid $515/month in UPA and I know at the time McMillan Manor was 550/month for the 4-person rooms. Both those were all inclusive. All four houses I've lived in have fallen into the 500-550/mo. range when everything is said and done. These aren't any more overpriced than most houses are in the area. There are a handful of small buildings pushing 700/month per person but those aren't the norm.

If you look at the three "older" new complexes right now, the cheapest options are each are below:

UPA: $645/person (4 beds, 2 bedrooms)
65 West: 662.50/person (4 bedrooms) (Parking included)
Campus Park Cincy (formerly McMillan Manor): $630/person (4 bedrooms) (parking included)

These all include utilities (unless you use too much) and wifi. Two include parking. I'm sure the new ones in Corryville cost more.

Just like Jake, I prefer living in older houses or apartments. I lived in UPA one year at UC and didn't really like the furnished apartments. Though it's all about the residents' preferences. Or the parents' preferences in many cases.

Unfortunately I think that a lot of students don't realize they would like the other style of living over new apartments with a garage and electronic entry and will never give it a try. I have strong connections to every building I've lived in except for UPA because it just felt generic and unimportant. I hope that's not the impression students get of Cincinnati because they live in bland buildings. I realize some people may think this is a stretch of an argument, but it's my honest opinion. Older buildings gave me a connection to the city that I didn't feel before that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 03, 2014, 02:15:28 PM
As the owner of a CUF house valued at exactly $100,000, the property tax is currently right around $2,100 per year.  Of that Cincinnati's tax is only about 10%.  Obviously if that tax were to completely disappear as an incentive it's doesn't make for much of one.  To really create a property tax incentive for houses, the CPS millage would have to be waived, which comprises about 40-50% of the total tax.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on June 03, 2014, 02:15:37 PM
I'll definitely agree they aren't as good to live in. My one year in UPA was about 11.5 months too long. But I gave it a try just out of curiosity/ease. It offered proximity that my other residences didn't, but that was never an issue since I didn't mind walking a mile to reach campus.

Prices might actually be higher than I remembered since it has been about 5 years since I lived in UPA. But in that same time it seems like houses also went up in price. All four of the houses I lived in over the last 5 years went up in price after I lived in them. By a substantial amount. One went up 100/bedroom despite being an awful house with huge issues. But it was big and had 5 bedrooms so it rented quickly.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 03, 2014, 02:53:38 PM
The reason why the tax abatement in Mt. Adams and OTR is a big deal for developers is because those properties tend to be worth much more.  Many condos in Mt. Adams and OTR are priced over $200,000 so the city tax incentive is a bigger deal.  The single-family and 2-family row houses in CUF all sell from about $90,000 up to about $105,000.  Cosmetic condition is basically irrelevant.  And the problem is that the closer a specific property is to an area where a landlord thinks he might be able to sell out to a plex developer, the more they let a property run down.  Look at the houses on the north side of Lyon St, for example.  Euclid in Corryville is another example.  Those guys on Lyon St. think they're going to pair up with dudes on McMillan around Mr. Tuxedo and make the magic happen. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 03, 2014, 06:17:32 PM
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2014/06/03/apartments-planned-alongside-newport-levee/9914113/

This article describes how this apartment complex will bypass ordinary property taxes and make direct payments.  This is the exact kind of BS that puts the little guy at a huge disadvantage.  And by little guy I mean small-time landlord. These tax abatements would be fairer if they were granted 20 years from the construction date in order to finance renovations and repairs.  But usually the investors who build a complex sell it as soon as it reaches full occupancy.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on July 11, 2014, 01:10:20 PM
The new streetscape on Short Vine is coming along and it seriously looks amazing. The wider sidewalks and burying of utilities make an enormous difference. It looks like they are, in fact, going with the "festival streets" type of design between Corry and Daniels. I'm not sure if that concept will be extended north of Daniels at all.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on July 11, 2014, 01:12:15 PM
I went up there about a week ago. The HUGE sidewalks feel so much nicer. The street's reduced width is quite apparent and will definitely stop any ability to speed through the area. I can't wait to see all the utilities buried. The burying of powerlines is an action that will forever make me smile.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on July 11, 2014, 03:16:29 PM
I think there's some misunderstanding on how a property tax abatement works....

The residential property tax abatement is very good.  It is an abatement on the improved value.  and it has a cap.  For a new construction home that cap is $275K.   If I build a $500K tax abated home I pay full taxes on the land (in wealthy areas can be upwards of $100K) and then I pay full taxes on the value above $275K.   So for a $500K new home in a wealthy area on a normal but nice lot (hyde park, etc.) It could be a discount of $175K on your tax bill.  You still pay full tax as if your house was valued at $325K. So many people think you pay ZERO in taxes if you're abated. For renovations it's the same, and you have to spend around $10K on improvements to be eligible. Do a 30K addition to your home? you can lock in your value for 10 years so you aren't "punished" tax wise for improving an old home. 

That being said, the abatement for new construction apartments, like those in Corryville or UC is very different.  It becomes a 100% abatement on the improved value for X number of years (usually between 10 and 15 years) and there's no 'cap'.  So they are only paying the taxes on the land.  And Dusty Rhodes values land around UC like it's worth pennies.   There are sizable lots where the land is valued at $10K. It's pretty insane.

I wish the City would change the process in Uptown.  I wish the abatements would start to phase down to 50% of the improved value in the next couple years.  There's been so much development, and they all fill up right away, but we need to start saying, OK, now we want the market to take over with less incentive.  I'd rather have the abatements stay at 15 years but only be for 50% of the value, than have them shrink to 8 or 10 years but be 100% of the value of the improvements.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: natininja on July 12, 2014, 08:54:36 AM
Thanks, OCtoCincy, that was very informative.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on July 12, 2014, 05:13:01 PM
I think there's some misunderstanding on how a property tax abatement works....

The residential property tax abatement is very good.  It is an abatement on the improved value.  and it has a cap.  For a new construction home that cap is $275K.   If I build a $500K tax abated home I pay full taxes on the land (in wealthy areas can be upwards of $100K) and then I pay full taxes on the value above $275K.   So for a $500K new home in a wealthy area on a normal but nice lot (hyde park, etc.) It could be a discount of $175K on your tax bill.  You still pay full tax as if your house was valued at $325K. So many people think you pay ZERO in taxes if you're abated. For renovations it's the same, and you have to spend around $10K on improvements to be eligible. Do a 30K addition to your home? you can lock in your value for 10 years so you aren't "punished" tax wise for improving an old home. 

That being said, the abatement for new construction apartments, like those in Corryville or UC is very different.  It becomes a 100% abatement on the improved value for X number of years (usually between 10 and 15 years) and there's no 'cap'.  So they are only paying the taxes on the land.  And Dusty Rhodes values land around UC like it's worth pennies.   There are sizable lots where the land is valued at $10K. It's pretty insane.

I wish the City would change the process in Uptown.  I wish the abatements would start to phase down to 50% of the improved value in the next couple years.  There's been so much development, and they all fill up right away, but we need to start saying, OK, now we want the market to take over with less incentive.  I'd rather have the abatements stay at 15 years but only be for 50% of the value, than have them shrink to 8 or 10 years but be 100% of the value of the improvements.

I have heard that complaint from others as well. Hamilton County puts too little value on the land itself. I wonder, if the land itself was valued higher, how much it would encourage people to build on vacant lots in the urban core rather than use them as parking lots or just hold onto them indefinitely.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on July 12, 2014, 05:54:10 PM
Franklin does that as well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 13, 2014, 04:06:57 AM
I think there's some misunderstanding on how a property tax abatement works....

The residential property tax abatement is very good.  It is an abatement on the improved value.  and it has a cap.  For a new construction home that cap is $275K.   If I build a $500K tax abated home I pay full taxes on the land (in wealthy areas can be upwards of $100K) and then I pay full taxes on the value above $275K.   So for a $500K new home in a wealthy area on a normal but nice lot (hyde park, etc.) It could be a discount of $175K on your tax bill.  You still pay full tax as if your house was valued at $325K. So many people think you pay ZERO in taxes if you're abated. For renovations it's the same, and you have to spend around $10K on improvements to be eligible. Do a 30K addition to your home? you can lock in your value for 10 years so you aren't "punished" tax wise for improving an old home. 

That being said, the abatement for new construction apartments, like those in Corryville or UC is very different.  It becomes a 100% abatement on the improved value for X number of years (usually between 10 and 15 years) and there's no 'cap'.  So they are only paying the taxes on the land.  And Dusty Rhodes values land around UC like it's worth pennies.   There are sizable lots where the land is valued at $10K. It's pretty insane.

I wish the City would change the process in Uptown.  I wish the abatements would start to phase down to 50% of the improved value in the next couple years.  There's been so much development, and they all fill up right away, but we need to start saying, OK, now we want the market to take over with less incentive.  I'd rather have the abatements stay at 15 years but only be for 50% of the value, than have them shrink to 8 or 10 years but be 100% of the value of the improvements.

I have heard that complaint from others as well. Hamilton County puts too little value on the land itself. I wonder, if the land itself was valued higher, how much it would encourage people to build on vacant lots in the urban core rather than use them as parking lots or just hold onto them indefinitely.

Our property tax is just plain low to begin with -- typically about 75 mills in Hamilton County.  States like Ohio with a state income tax tend to have very low property tax.  "Low Tax" states like Texas push duties onto local governments, who are forced to fund basic services through higher sales and property taxes.  In Texas cities property taxes are often double what is typically seen in Ohio cities.





Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on July 14, 2014, 01:49:07 PM
Here is the big announcement about redeveloping the MLK Reading (interchange) area from the Uptown Consortium:

http://cin.ci/1hlbhGW

The area is pretty desolate, but I'm wondering what historic buildings will be torn down this time?  I at least want to get the conversation rolling about preservation while its early this time around, as Coryville's character has already suffered an awful lot from the actions of this group.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on September 03, 2014, 02:36:34 PM
Crossroads to hold services at Bogart’s
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/08/29/exclusive-church-or-punk-rock-show-crossroads-to.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/08/29/exclusive-church-or-punk-rock-show-crossroads-to.html)

Quote
Crossroads Clifton will hold once-monthly services at the venue until December – it’s taking that month off to put on 29 productions of its “Awaited” Christmas show – and it will start weekly Sunday services in January, Yates said.

I'm curious where they would locate for a more permanent location around UC. Any chance Crossroads would renovate an old empty church?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 13, 2014, 08:47:55 PM
I ran across this photo I took of the Short Vine Perkin's being demolished in 2005:
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/July%202005/DSC_0156.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/July%202005/DSC_0156.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on November 14, 2014, 09:08:28 PM
Another entire block of Corryville to be demolished.  The block at Eden, Taft & Corry adjacent to the park on Euclid will become a new Uptown Properties apartment project.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on November 15, 2014, 05:25:46 PM
^ do you have any details on the Uptown Properties project? Is it just a proposal? Or is it confirmed?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: chilismaug on November 16, 2014, 10:22:51 PM
Oh dear, more old mansions to be crushed. I live an Mt Auburn, and Victorians are getting dozed left and right, as in Corryville. The church at McMillan and Auburn is going down, stained glass is just about stripped now. That one has been doomed ever since they moved the road within 4 feet of it, pretty much.

Meanwhile down my street, the Governor's house, circa 1870, is patched with tarpaper, and we are sposedly in a historic district. However, all the new stuff does put a tad more pressure on whatever old piles are lucky enough to be left standing to be patched and prettied up.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: chilismaug on November 16, 2014, 10:30:58 PM
errr..  the doomed WH Taft block picture .
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on November 16, 2014, 10:50:22 PM
...The church at McMillan and Auburn...has been doomed ever since they moved the road within 4 feet of it, pretty much.

So, since about 1920? 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 17, 2014, 02:42:50 PM

$25 million apartment project coming to Uptown Cincinnati
Nov 17, 2014, 2:22pm EST
Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



A $25 million residential project is coming to the Uptown area of Cincinnati.

Uptown Rental Properties LLC and North American Properties are partnering on the huge project, which will be located on property bordered by William Howard Taft Road, Euclid Avenue, East Corry Street and Eden Avenue. Named 101 East Corry, this latest project will add 108 apartment units, with beds for 272 people, that will be built on a two-story parking garage and include eight townhomes along East Corry Street to block the view of the garage.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2014/11/25-million-apartment-project-coming-to-uptown.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2014/11/25-million-apartment-project-coming-to-uptown.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on November 17, 2014, 02:49:57 PM
errr..  the doomed WH Taft block picture .

(http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26241.0;attach=12565;image)

The Pregnancy Care Center on the left purchased the red building on the far right and will be moving into that. They also demolished another building (the next building to the right) for parking.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on November 28, 2014, 05:43:28 PM
^ that can't be correct.  That entire block is being demolished (except the older building on the south east corner)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on November 28, 2014, 06:41:20 PM
That was what they told us a year ago. It's possible that their plans have changed and they ended up selling the red building. I tried to look it up on the auditor's site but am having trouble finding results searching for Taft or William Howard Taft as the street name...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on November 29, 2014, 11:10:55 AM
Just checked CAGIS.  Every building on that block except for the actual Pregnancy Care building is now owned by Uptown Properties under various LLC's. A number of the buildings were only acquired this year. The red building was acquired in March.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on November 30, 2014, 06:46:55 PM
Photo of the curbless design of Short Vine. I really hope Short Vine becomes a destination for street festivals and events.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: seicer on November 30, 2014, 06:53:22 PM
Are they removing the overhead wires?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on November 30, 2014, 06:55:12 PM
^I'm pretty sure yes. They're still doing a quite a bit of construction, so I imagine the old posts and overhead wire will come down once the new underground utilities are connected.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on December 01, 2014, 02:00:13 AM
It looks pretty bad at the moment.  I heard that brick pavers for the street and/or sidewalk were cut from the project but I didn't read that so I'm not sure. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: seicer on December 01, 2014, 08:44:01 AM
Those pictured are truncated dome pavers, necessary for ADA. I wouldn't call it decorative, but the city now has no choice.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: natininja on December 01, 2014, 08:47:13 AM
Needs brick or some other special pavers for sure. And a streetcar!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ajknee on December 01, 2014, 12:27:42 PM
I just don't get why they put in fake gas lanterns and kept the contemporary red aches. They look awful next to each other. If they had simply chosen a contemporary fixture for the streetlights I would be 100% on board with this redesign.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 15, 2014, 04:05:17 PM
The VP3 development at the corner of Euclid and Corry:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7469/15406386624_687fe8d6b7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ptpKZA)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: seicer on December 16, 2014, 06:43:18 AM
I'm surprised how much construction is wood framed today. I almost bought into a condo project down here when I was in college - it was all wood framed. It looked great from the outside and it was nice inside, but the building was also pretty empty. I have a few friends who live in it today, and although it's just 10 years old, it is showing its age considerably. There are parts of the floor that have a pretty good bounce when you walk on it, the insulation between floors is horrid (you can make out other conversations pretty easily) and it doesn't feel nearly as rigid.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on December 16, 2014, 08:17:31 AM
^That has less to do with wood framed vs. other construction techniques and just a general "whatever is least required by code" mentality. Wood framed, when done correctly, is just fine for buildings of this scale. But it's not done correctly. They size all members the minimum allowed by load requirements.

That bounce you feel can happen in a steel framed building or a concrete building. Newport on the Levee is a perfect example of this. You can feel the whole building moving. Or South Park Mall outside of Cleveland (or many other malls I've been in). The key is to oversize certain members to remove this bounce.

As for noise transmission, they probably went with spray foam between floors which is awful at stopping sound transmission. You need to insulate between units for fire purposes but sound batt insulation for the ceilings probably weren't used. That would solve that issue. But it's another step and another contractor and another employee's time so it was cheaper to just not care.

Code stops things from falling down but it doesn't stop things from being bad unfortunately.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on December 16, 2014, 08:34:45 AM
^ Cheap construction would never use spray foam for anything unless absolutely necessary, just fiberglass batts.  Cellulose insulation is generally best for noise dampening, but it's going to be difficult with any sort of wood framing because the wall studs and floor joists themselves allow the sound to bridge across.  It's not as bad in older buildings even though they almost all have wood floor framing, because the joists are larger and the subfloor and finished floor is a bit thicker, but the real differentiator is the old plaster, which is roughly a inch thick and so heavy that it dampens out sound while drywall is light enough that it acts more like a speaker diaphragm.  Carpet can be surprisingly helpful too, especially with the clip-clopping of shoes of course.  Masonry walls are also very good at dampening sound.  I lived in one of the 1960s/1970s shoebox apartments that you see all over the city, and while I could hear people above and below through the wood floors, I never once heard anything from the next door neighbors because the walls between apartments were concrete block with drywall over it. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Ram23 on December 16, 2014, 08:40:17 AM
Bouncy floors are either a design problem or a "cost savings" measure. The same goes for sound insulation, though wood studs are noticeably worse than metal (even with correct insulation) because they couple the two hard surfaces on either side of the wall/floor. I'd imagine it doesn't matter much for a college apartment, but I'd factor that in if I were buying.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on December 16, 2014, 08:45:06 AM
^ Cheap construction would never use spray foam for anything unless absolutely necessary, just fiberglass batts.  Cellulose insulation is generally best for noise dampening, but it's going to be difficult with any sort of wood framing because the wall studs and floor joists themselves allow the sound to bridge across.  It's not as bad in older buildings even though they almost all have wood floor framing, because the joists are larger and the subfloor and finished floor is a bit thicker, but the real differentiator is the old plaster, which is roughly a inch thick and so heavy that it dampens out sound while drywall is light enough that it acts more like a speaker diaphragm.  Carpet can be surprisingly helpful too, especially with the clip-clopping of shoes of course.  Masonry walls are also very good at dampening sound.  I lived in one of the 1960s/1970s shoebox apartments that you see all over the city, and while I could hear people above and below through the wood floors, I never once heard anything from the next door neighbors because the walls between apartments were concrete block with drywall over it. 

I only mentioned spray foam because I noticed a handful of projects using it even though they were cheap projects. I'm not sure what the reasoning was for going for quality on only one aspect of a project but I've seen it happening. I questioned the point if if they were then using 3/8" drywall which basically negates any sound dampening but whatever.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ajknee on December 16, 2014, 08:46:10 AM
You know what's really frustrating about all of this crap-artictecture going up around town?  People don't care anymore...

I was walking around Over-the-Rhine with a friend from Chicago about two months ago.  We walked past Music Hall, down Orchard St, through Prospect Hill, past the Germania building, etc.  Then we got to Vine St between Central and 12th.  My friend turned to to the Gateway Building and said, "Ooh! That's looks nice!"  SMH...nice of course meant new to him.  People want new, not nice.  In order for developers to offers nothing but new stuff, they have to build crap that can be torn down easily.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on December 16, 2014, 08:54:10 AM
Trouble is, trying to decouple the ceiling and floor means you almost have to double the amount of material because the floor structure doesn't change, and you're adding a separate ceiling below that needs to be mostly self-supporting.  Even in the "good old days" that wasn't really done, and it's why the suspended ceiling came into fashion for commercial work.  There isn't really an equivalent system for residential.  The same is true for walls too.  For proper sound dampening you basically have to build two separate walls so that the studs don't touch, then fill the whole thing with insulation.  That basically doubles the cost. 

There might be some economies of scale happening with spray foam on these large projects, especially since the energy codes are getting more and more strict to the point that you might not be able to get the code-required R-value with conventional cheap insulation systems like fiberglass unless the walls are made with deeper studs.  There's probably an inflection point where the cost of going to 2x6 framing with fiberglass is higher than the cost of 2x4 framing with spray foam, or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on December 16, 2014, 08:54:43 AM
Thankfully there are still some of us who care. The suburban movement of the last 60 years really killed our understanding of good architecture. When you've been taught your whole life that a vinyl sided, brick fronted box with a 3 car garage protruding towards the street is the height of architecture, I can't blame you for having a skewed (read: wrong) opinion of architecture and construction. The back-to-the-cities movement seems to be igniting the general public's passion for architecture though. Maybe not quite in Cincinnati yet, but residential architecture in a lot of places is changing very much for the better because people are calling into question the desires of the general public over the last 6 decades.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 16, 2014, 01:44:36 PM
Thankfully there are still some of us who care. The suburban movement of the last 60 years really killed our understanding of good architecture. When you've been taught your whole life that a vinyl sided, brick fronted box with a 3 car garage protruding towards the street is the height of architecture, I can't blame you for having a skewed (read: wrong) opinion of architecture and construction. The back-to-the-cities movement seems to be igniting the general public's passion for architecture though. Maybe not quite in Cincinnati yet, but residential architecture in a lot of places is changing very much for the better because people are calling into question the desires of the general public over the last 6 decades.

Not to go too far off topic, but I think this what you are describing is part of a larger cultural trend taking place in the U.S. right now. Since roughly WWII, we have been moving in the direction of more homogenized, bland, mass-produced, convenient, "efficient" stuff in almost every aspect of American culture. Much of what has been happening over the past ~5 years in Cincinnati (and maybe ~15 years in the big cities) that would be dismissed as "hipster" or "yuppie" by a lot of people is actually about Americans rediscovering that things can actually be, well, good. And in a lot of cases, we have to completely re-learn it all from scratch. We completely forgot what good architecture looks like (and how to build it). We will have to relearn it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on December 16, 2014, 01:51:07 PM
Exactly. And there is definitely a learning curve which is why I try not to get too upset when projects go up that aren't that great. Because it seems like every city goes through this learning curve period before coming into its own and building truly good things again. We're still in the early stages of our urban movement so time still needs to pass before we learn as a region how to build properly again. It'll happen, we just have to be patient and continue the commentary on what is bad and wrong with what we are doing so people learn.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 16, 2014, 01:56:08 PM
Exactly. And there is definitely a learning curve which is why I try not to get too upset when projects go up that aren't that great. Because it seems like every city goes through this learning curve period before coming into its own and building truly good things again. We're still in the early stages of our urban movement so time still needs to pass before we learn as a region how to build properly again. It'll happen, we just have to be patient and continue the commentary on what is bad and wrong with what we are doing so people learn.

Well, the good thing about these CR Architecture-esque projects is that they're not built to last. Maybe in 30 years when all of this wood-framed low-quality construction needs to be replaced, we'll have our act together and will be able to put up some meaningful architecture. That almost hurts to say as someone who cares about the environment and hates to see buildings end up in landfills...but it's true.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on December 16, 2014, 02:49:50 PM
Quote
Not to go too far off topic, but I think this what you are describing is part of a larger cultural trend taking place in the U.S. right now. Since roughly WWII, we have been moving in the direction of more homogenized, bland, mass-produced, convenient, "efficient" stuff in almost every aspect of American culture. Much of what has been happening over the past ~5 years in Cincinnati (and maybe ~15 years in the big cities) that would be dismissed as "hipster" or "yuppie" by a lot of people is actually about Americans rediscovering that things can actually be, well, good. And in a lot of cases, we have to completely re-learn it all from scratch. We completely forgot what good architecture looks like (and how to build it). We will have to relearn it.

Even in the larger cities where urban culture / new architecture is better as a whole there are still junk projects, take for instance this one in my neighborhood, looks like something out of the 1970s, though at the very least its more substantial looking than much of the junk by the  University in Cincinnati:

https://ssl.cdn-redfin.com/photo/68/bigphoto/832/08635832_0.jpg

The learning curve is pretty darn steep which is so strange, I don't understand it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on December 16, 2014, 03:09:15 PM
Remember also that the crap buildings tend to go away over time while the good ones stay.  So today we mostly see just the well-built buildings remaining, as the jerry-built shacks have all fallen down, burned down, or otherwise been replaced. 

Historically wood buildings weren't meant to be long-lasting, not just because of durability but because all the painting and other maintenance is so time consuming and difficult.  They're the 19th and early 20th century equivalent of cheap consumer goods from China.  Yes they're nice and shiny when new, especially with so many pre-assembled parts and off-the-shelf components.  All the gingerbread mouldings and cornices and windows and tin ceilings and such came out of factories and catalogs.  Cheap to buy, easy to assemble, and pretty good looking.  As time goes on however, those profiles and parts and pieces aren't made anymore so they have to be custom made to replace, and equivalent replacements just don't exist.  So just like it's cheaper to throw out the broken washing machine and buy a new one, because fixing it would require hours of expensive service tech labor and retail parts compared to the hyper efficient assembly line labor and volume-purchased parts for a new one, wood buildings were expected to be disassembled or demolished because maintaining them was just too much work.   

It takes kind of an odd set of circumstances to preserve all these wood buildings that we have, imposed in no small part due to zoning restrictions which forbid densification.  Historically, either a neighborhood of wood (first generation) buildings would grow up and mature into brick and stone structures, or it would decline and go away (think abandoned mining towns and western ghost towns).  Where these buildings stick around is in an environment of stasis, which is what zoning promotes.  The problem is that these buildings don't function well under stasis because they're so difficult to maintain. 

Also, the wood construction represents a shifting of cost and quality from the building for people to the building for cars.  If so much parking, especially structured parking, wasn't required, then more resources could be allocated to the building itself.  Maybe, hopefully, as time goes on the buildings will get upgraded or rebuilt in a more substantial manner as time goes on, especially if the parking doesn't deteriorate at the same rate. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on December 16, 2014, 03:14:28 PM
Not to go too far off topic, but
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on December 16, 2014, 04:58:15 PM
Exactly. And there is definitely a learning curve which is why I try not to get too upset when projects go up that aren't that great. Because it seems like every city goes through this learning curve period before coming into its own and building truly good things again. We're still in the early stages of our urban movement so time still needs to pass before we learn as a region how to build properly again. It'll happen, we just have to be patient and continue the commentary on what is bad and wrong with what we are doing so people learn.

Well, the good thing about these CR Architecture-esque projects is that they're not built to last. Maybe in 30 years when all of this wood-framed low-quality construction needs to be replaced, we'll have our act together and will be able to put up some meaningful architecture. That almost hurts to say as someone who cares about the environment and hates to see buildings end up in landfills...but it's true.

What's happening uptown is a housing bubble.  All this madness can be put to an end if the city were to zone out multi-family properties larger than four units.  We wouldn't see historic homes torn down for suburban-style apartment buildings because building apartments would become illegal. 

All of this new construction is discouraging property owners from reinvesting in existing buildings.  Instead people are letting their properties deteriorate in areas where they believe developers will buy them out. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on December 18, 2014, 11:31:42 AM
The second-last house was just demolished on Wm H Taft.  Only one house remains. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 21, 2014, 04:11:55 PM
Some shots from Short Vine in late November:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7524/16064212862_93d15d909f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qtxhPh)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8604/15877600440_a3c041a63b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qc3RrJ)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7484/16064206212_b3d11b4a27_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qtxfQC)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7472/16064892465_1654445331_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qtALQz)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7482/15423548893_0044225bd3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/puVHJM)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8635/15428037274_fa03d23a37_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pvjHYE)

As you can see, it's still a bit of a mess with all the old telephone poles, cobrahead lighting, and suspended stop signs. The red concrete crosswalks are a nice touch.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OllyTransit on December 21, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
If they'd just bury the stupid utilities, Short Vine could look amazing. A shame they skirted on doing that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: TheCOV on December 21, 2014, 09:22:17 PM
I think the chages made to short vine make the area look worse.  I can't explainn it...it just looks half done.  Somehow it's just suburban homogenized nothingness to me.  Its hideous.  I'd rather have the more run down, but authentic feel, of the 1980's.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: el double u on December 22, 2014, 02:39:43 PM
The concrete sidewalk pads were not finished around the telephone poles as smoothly as the sidewalk itself, like the concrete they poured around the old poles is just a placeholder or something.  It definitely doesn't appear that this concrete is permanent around the old poles.  It's kind of hard to explain, I'll try to get over there to take a picture this week.  Maybe they'll be torn out at a later date?  I know the Consortium was looking for funding to streetscape the rest of Short Vine. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 22, 2014, 02:56:22 PM
The concrete sidewalk pads were not finished around the telephone poles as smoothly as the sidewalk itself, like the concrete they poured around the old poles is just a placeholder or something.  It definitely doesn't appear that this concrete is permanent around the old poles.  It's kind of hard to explain, I'll try to get over there to take a picture this week.  Maybe they'll be torn out at a later date?  I know the Consortium was looking for funding to streetscape the rest of Short Vine. 

The city has been very good as using this technique in recent years. They did the same thing in Pendleton. Earlier this summer, they buried the utilities on 12th Street in Pendleton and just patched those squares of sidewalk that had previously been roughed-in.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on December 22, 2014, 03:52:22 PM


The reason the concrete isn't poured around the utility poles is that they DID bury all the lines, and the utility poles will be coming down.  The issue is, utilities TAKE FOREVER to switch the service and take the poles down.  The lines on 13th street were buried two years ago, and they still haven't come down.

so in a year or so(hopefully) we will see a clear, clean Short Vine.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: natininja on December 22, 2014, 03:58:41 PM
I thought they were going to make the street level with the sidewalk? Did that plan get scrapped?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 22, 2014, 04:11:53 PM
I thought they were going to make the street level with the sidewalk? Did that plan get scrapped?

The sidewalk slopes down to the street. However it rises up at intersections as you can see from my photos. Kinda hard to explain, you should check it out in person if you get the chance.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on December 22, 2014, 04:32:26 PM

...utilities TAKE FOREVER to switch the service and take the poles down.  The lines on 13th street were buried two years ago, and they still haven't come down.

Sometimes they never finish.  There's still 3 or 4 poles on Woodburn Avenue that have had their tops lopped off but still have one secondary distribution feed to a few buildings.  http://goo.gl/maps/Ttqgd
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on February 19, 2015, 08:23:16 PM
Council OKs tax breaks for major Uptown apartment project
Feb 19, 2015, 3:05pm EST Updated: Feb 19, 2015, 3:07pm EST
Chris Wetterich Staff reporter and columnist- Cincinnati Business Courier


The Cincinnati City Council unanimously approved a property tax break on Thursday for a 108-unit apartment project set to be built in Corryville.

Under the Leadership in Energy & Environmental Design tax credit, Uptown Rentals will save nearly $8 million in property taxes on improvements it makes to eight properties at William Howard Taft Road and Eden Avenue.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/02/19/council-oks-tax-breaks-for-major-uptown-apartment.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/02/19/council-oks-tax-breaks-for-major-uptown-apartment.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Ram23 on February 19, 2015, 10:23:40 PM
Some of these tax incentives are getting to be a bit much, in my opinion, especially for a conglomerate like Uptown Rentals. Many smaller, independent landlords will get dinged with thousands in additional taxes for fixing up old bathrooms and kitchens, while Uptown gets to save $8,000,000 by tearing down historic buildings and putting up cheap EIFS clad superblocks.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: TheCOV on February 19, 2015, 10:39:48 PM
Council OKs tax breaks for major Uptown apartment project
Feb 19, 2015, 3:05pm EST Updated: Feb 19, 2015, 3:07pm EST
Chris Wetterich Staff reporter and columnist- Cincinnati Business Courier


The Cincinnati City Council unanimously approved a property tax break on Thursday for a 108-unit apartment project set to be built in Corryville.

Under the Leadership in Energy & Environmental Design tax credit, Uptown Rentals will save nearly $8 million in property taxes on improvements it makes to eight properties at William Howard Taft Road and Eden Avenue.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/02/19/council-oks-tax-breaks-for-major-uptown-apartment.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/02/19/council-oks-tax-breaks-for-major-uptown-apartment.html)

They should be forced to spend some of that $8mil on historic preservation endevors in this city.  We keep paying people to destroy our history.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 24, 2015, 01:16:24 PM
University Plaza sign next to WH Taft was torn down last week.  Fencing has moved around the old Blockbuster site and heavy equipment is in the parking lot. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on February 25, 2015, 10:19:21 AM
 Has Kroger announced timing for when the University Plaza store will close and how long it'll be closed during renovation?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on March 02, 2015, 07:16:12 PM
Has Kroger announced timing for when the University Plaza store will close and how long it'll be closed during renovation?

I don't think so.  Meanwhile construction activity has picked up in the lot.  Maybe they are simply fixing up the lot with new light poles.  They have what looks like a pile driver parked in the lot. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Ram23 on March 02, 2015, 08:55:24 PM
There was a demo permit pulled at the end of January for "DEMO EXITING COMMERCIAL BLDG (KROGER/WALGREENS/RETAIL CTR)" (sic) and a permit for a new building, as well. I've worked on similar projects, and I'd say Kroger will probably have to be closed for 9 months to a year, unless they somehow revised the plan in such a way that they can build the new building without demolishing the old one.

Here's a link (http://cagis.hamilton-co.org/opal/ezTrakAPDList.aspx?ezstdadrtag=1|W|CORRY|ST|GJ1525533994|||CINC|CINC|01020004016000001C|009200020190|010200040160|CINCINNATI) to all the permits (I'm not positive this will work, if not just go to Cagis EZTrak and search for 1 W. Corry).

Personally, this will be a sad project for me. That Kroger is basically the only place I've bought groceries for the last 10 years, aside from a handful of co-ops and that brief moment I could afford rent in OTR.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: TheHemroid on March 02, 2015, 10:31:16 PM
That Kroger does have a good bit of nostalgia attached to it but we shouldn't kid ourselves.  It's a piece of crap.  It's not welcoming on any side and is surrounded by stores that nobody really cares about other than that Walgreens.  It'll be nice to see it go.  Such an eyesore for that entire intersection.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on March 03, 2015, 10:48:25 AM
Just a reminder that there's a thread dedicated to the University Village/Plaza project: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2563.0.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 19, 2015, 01:33:57 PM
4/12/15:
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-4870_zps2k7hmfxh.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-4870_zps2k7hmfxh.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-4860_zpsfmsdf5k9.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-4860_zpsfmsdf5k9.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-4019_zpswep1xxrk.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-4019_zpswep1xxrk.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3942_zpsw85jek2d.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3942_zpsw85jek2d.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3941_zpspklqpnao.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3941_zpspklqpnao.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3940_zpsoskbr2ew.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3940_zpsoskbr2ew.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3938_zpsmvoaxghe.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3938_zpsmvoaxghe.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3936_zpsn76ybb8s.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3936_zpsn76ybb8s.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3935_zps8yhhlkvp.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3935_zps8yhhlkvp.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3934_zpsagvjrwjp.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3934_zpsagvjrwjp.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3932_zpsngjnurgt.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3932_zpsngjnurgt.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3925_zps9zkih61b.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3925_zps9zkih61b.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3919_zpsg5p1l4ab.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3919_zpsg5p1l4ab.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3913_zpsd2a7aexo.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3913_zpsd2a7aexo.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3911_zpsbhn52tz7.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3911_zpsbhn52tz7.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3910_zpspn34fpze.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3910_zpspn34fpze.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3909_zpsofhwl8gw.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3909_zpsofhwl8gw.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3907_zpsdcbspywl.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3907_zpsdcbspywl.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3905_zps7avty6z0.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3905_zps7avty6z0.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3904_zps84uqyv6r.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3904_zps84uqyv6r.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3900_zpsvdicid4p.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3900_zpsvdicid4p.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3891_zpsytwbw2q1.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3891_zpsytwbw2q1.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3877_zpsry1a5sxo.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3877_zpsry1a5sxo.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3869_zpslp1535j8.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3869_zpslp1535j8.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3863_zpsv2scknau.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3863_zpsv2scknau.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3853_zpsa0czofhs.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3853_zpsa0czofhs.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3852_zpsgkd7i7kh.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3852_zpsgkd7i7kh.jpg.html)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3828_zpsqhizw1mi.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3828_zpsqhizw1mi.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on April 19, 2015, 08:15:42 PM
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3934_zpsagvjrwjp.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3934_zpsagvjrwjp.jpg.html)

Is this garbage getting torn down any time soon?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: TheHemroid on April 19, 2015, 10:26:19 PM
Notice that Corryville is suddenly not dangerous anymore.  It has grown quiet and pleasant. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on April 20, 2015, 12:38:41 AM
And way too sterile.  Too much old was torn down  :x
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 20, 2015, 02:50:53 AM
And way too sterile.  Too much old was torn down  :x

You absolutely can't make up that The Sub Galley -- one of the sleaziest establishments to be found anywhere in the United States -- was replaced by some place called...Dive Bar.  I still can't get over the fact that somebody actually named a new, mild-mannered bar "Dive Bar", especially when it replaced a place where crack was smoked in full view. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on April 20, 2015, 10:49:17 AM
And way too sterile.  Too much old was torn down  :x

You absolutely can't make up that The Sub Galley -- one of the sleaziest establishments to be found anywhere in the United States -- was replaced by some place called...Dive Bar.  I still can't get over the fact that somebody actually named a new, mild-mannered bar "Dive Bar", especially when it replaced a place where crack was smoked in full view. 

So Meta.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OllyTransit on April 21, 2015, 09:47:22 AM
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3934_zpsagvjrwjp.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/jmecklenborg/media/Cincinnati%20Monocle/uptown-3934_zpsagvjrwjp.jpg.html)

Is this garbage getting torn down any time soon?

Exact thing I was wondering. I got giddy when I saw most of the places had vacated in that photo. That's the biggest remaining scourge on that street.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on April 21, 2015, 10:07:00 AM
What was demoed for that in looks like 1987? It's got that remodeled Road House Double Deuce/late '80s mall look to it with the metal structures. Anybody remember what was there before?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on April 21, 2015, 10:29:04 AM
That development is called "The Colonnade". It was built in 1989 and sold to a shell company of Uptown Rental Properties in 2013 for $1.5 million.

I don't know what was there before 1989. I'm not having much luck finding photos or articles about The Colonnade development.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OllyTransit on April 21, 2015, 10:34:31 AM
Did some research on the shopping center. Looks like Uptown Rental Properties bought up the property in 2013 for $1.5m through their Gaslight Ventures LLC. Dan Schimberg's signature is on the conveyance fee forms. Which is good news to me. I don't see them buying up that property unless they intend to demo and build housing/mixed development on the land.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Bosco4789 on April 21, 2015, 10:34:36 AM
There was a Kroger there in the 70's.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on April 21, 2015, 10:38:14 AM
They've stated their longterm intention is to demolish and build something larger scale at that site with a residential component. Until that point hey said they'd do generic "sprucing" to make it at least look a little nicer.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 21, 2015, 10:58:08 AM
What was demoed for that in looks like 1987? It's got that remodeled Road House Double Deuce/late '80s mall look to it with the metal structures. Anybody remember what was there before?

The shopping center's main tenant for about 15 years was Kinko's, and it was a beehive of activity 24 hours a day.  The Kinko's took up almost the entire plaza.  There was also a Star Bank ATM in the middle.  Around midnight there would be UC students working on something alongside bands of feuding factions (for example goth vs. hardcore) printing off telephone pole posters. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OllyTransit on April 21, 2015, 11:23:01 AM
They've stated their longterm intention is to demolish and build something larger scale at that site with a residential component. Until that point hey said they'd do generic "sprucing" to make it at least look a little nicer.

I must have missed this story a year and a half ago:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/10/21/new-restaurant-bar-project-planned.html?page=all
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on April 21, 2015, 12:30:15 PM
What was demoed for that in looks like 1987? It's got that remodeled Road House Double Deuce/late '80s mall look to it with the metal structures. Anybody remember what was there before?

The shopping center's main tenant for about 15 years was Kinko's, and it was a beehive of activity 24 hours a day.  The Kinko's took up almost the entire plaza.  There was also a Star Bank ATM in the middle.  Around midnight there would be UC students working on something alongside bands of feuding factions (for example goth vs. hardcore) printing off telephone pole posters. 


Oh I remember the Kinko's and the ATM (it kept my card twice) but I meant to ask what building was there before this one.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Bosco4789 on April 21, 2015, 01:52:26 PM
If it is the same building that Kinko's was in, then before that there was one of those small Krogers on the site.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: el double u on April 22, 2015, 12:10:02 PM
They've stated their longterm intention is to demolish and build something larger scale at that site with a residential component. Until that point hey said they'd do generic "sprucing" to make it at least look a little nicer.

I must have missed this story a year and a half ago:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/10/21/new-restaurant-bar-project-planned.html?page=all

I wonder why Uptown is dragging their feet with this?  They made some improvements to the attached parking garage and with VP3 opening this fall and another development getting started on Taft, seems like the area would be ripe for new bars/restaurants.  Especially when you consider Kroghetto's redevelopment getting underway.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OllyTransit on April 22, 2015, 01:17:06 PM
They've stated their longterm intention is to demolish and build something larger scale at that site with a residential component. Until that point hey said they'd do generic "sprucing" to make it at least look a little nicer.

I must have missed this story a year and a half ago:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/10/21/new-restaurant-bar-project-planned.html?page=all

I wonder why Uptown is dragging their feet with this?  They made some improvements to the attached parking garage and with VP3 opening this fall and another development getting started on Taft, seems like the area would be ripe for new bars/restaurants.  Especially when you consider Kroghetto's redevelopment getting underway.

The only thing I can think is that they're waiting to wrap on VP3 before starting on that plot.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on April 22, 2015, 05:37:16 PM
They've actually already begun working on VP4, a name, which makes no sense, btw.  VP3 was Vine Public Private Partnership. 
VP4... who knows....
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on April 22, 2015, 06:16:14 PM
They should call it V@P3R
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on April 22, 2015, 06:26:58 PM
It means Vine Public Private PartnershiP
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OllyTransit on April 22, 2015, 06:27:52 PM
They should call it V@P3R

How about "#VEEP"
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on April 22, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
They should call it V@P3R

How about "#VEEP"

#VEEP@TheRidge
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: el double u on April 22, 2015, 06:34:47 PM
It means Vine Public Private PartnershiP

It actually stands for Vine Phase 3, referring to Vine Street Flats and Views on Vine as the first two phases.  The development along Taft will be Vine Phase 4.  They're adding something like 1,000 residents to the area.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on April 22, 2015, 11:10:01 PM
Those are still the worst names ever.  I live in Vine Phase 3!  Shirley there's a better name. For example...

Short@TheVine
Corry Commons Flats
ATSHORTVINE
Commons at Corry
VP3O

Ok... I'm not being serious...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: el double u on April 22, 2015, 11:58:49 PM
Those are still the worst names ever.  I live in Vine Phase 3!  Shirley there's a better name. For example...

Short@TheVine
Corry Commons Flats
ATSHORTVINE
Commons at Corry
VP3O

Ok... I'm not being serious...

How about V3PO, C3PO's long lost cousin?  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Ram23 on May 13, 2015, 12:29:11 PM
Saw this on Reddit, some people just can't deal with change:

(https://i.imgur.com/bO0QonD.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 15, 2015, 12:20:24 PM
I have some information straight from the horse's mouth -- a Walgreen's security guard:

-University Plaza Walgreen's will be shutting down soon, but its pharmacy will operate out of the trailer that is currently on the site
-New Kroger will also have a pharmacy
-New Kroger will be 2-floors
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on June 15, 2015, 12:28:34 PM
I have heard a number of rumors that Kroger has a new plan for the site; yet, it does not appear that they have presented these plans anywhere.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Ram23 on June 15, 2015, 12:30:55 PM
I have some information straight from the horse's mouth -- a Walgreen's security guard:

-University Plaza Walgreen's will be shutting down soon, but its pharmacy will operate out of the trailer that is currently on the site
-New Kroger will also have a pharmacy
-New Kroger will be 2-floors

I saw that there was a permit pulled for the address for a “pharmacy trailer.” I first thought it was some type of misprint, and that it was just a construction trailer that would be on-site while the new pharmacy was being built. However, your security guard has confirmed my initial understanding - Walgreens will operate out of a trailer, much like the classrooms at UC’s nearby Wilson Auditorium replacement.

I wonder if he meant the Kroger itself will be two stories, or if other buildings on site will be. One of the site plans from years ago did have a couple two story outbuildings along Corry Street. However, I have also heard from Kroger workers that they will stay open during construction – so the site plan has to have changed (or they’re being lied to).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 15, 2015, 03:28:17 PM
I also heard from a recently retired Kroger store manager (who managed a nearby Kroger for several years that I'm not mentioning to keep him from getting in trouble, but never the Corryville store) that there were plans at some point to build a pedestrian bridge over Jefferson Ave. allowing for a better connection between UC and University Plaza.  I assume that Kroger considered at one time building the new store up against Jefferson but obviously that is not happening. 

Also, no word on a new location for Blockbuster. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on June 17, 2015, 01:39:46 PM
Two restaurants (Fusian and Noodle's & Co) are planned to be constructed at the corner of Vine and MLK, next to the Hampton Inn.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/06/17/fusian-coming-to-stalled-uptown-development.html?ana=twt

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: TheHemroid on June 17, 2015, 04:26:22 PM
I went inside Walgreens last week and talked to the owner.  He said they will start demolition on Walgreens and Kroger at the end of June.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 25, 2015, 09:23:10 AM
It's been almost a year since the new streetscape was finished, and it still looks horrible because the city and/or Duke has not yet come around and removed the telephone polls and cobra head lighting:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/642/20843054186_9902f16d25_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xKQ6Rd)

Does anyone know what's going on here?

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/698/20684200409_b9cd6ff915_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xvMW9Z)

Renovations in the 2600 block of Short Vine:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5707/20249874533_b66c54e608_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wRpUcP)

UTBAGS (Used to be a Gold Star):

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/678/20870983865_255d34cfa6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xNifnp)

The VP3 development doesn't look so bad from the Euclid Ave. side:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5732/20869252745_864d5da445_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xN9nLv)

...but the Corry St. side is gross:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/767/20246586644_61d062d8cf_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wR83Q5)

The VP4 development is underway:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5670/20861215512_b07aee943b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xMrbzw)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on August 25, 2015, 09:27:55 AM
Those concrete bollards are some of the ugliest streetscaping elements I've ever seen. Whoever decided that was a good idea should be publicly shamed.

Are those necessary for safety somehow? I understand there isn't a curb, but there are parked cars all along the street protecting the pedestrians from out of control cars. There has to be a better solution.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 25, 2015, 09:38:08 AM
Those concrete bollards are some of the ugliest streetscaping elements I've ever seen. Whoever decided that was a good idea should be publicly shamed.

Are those necessary for safety somehow? I understand there isn't a curb, but there are parked cars all along the street protecting the pedestrians from out of control cars. There has to be a better solution.

I think the city was afraid to go full woonerf and felt there needed to be some demarkation between the "car area" and "pedestrian area".
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on August 25, 2015, 09:52:53 AM
That plaza you asked about is being renovated to be more enticing. Long-term the owners have stated that they'll eventually tear that building down, leave the garage, and build something up to the sidewalk that's larger and includes housing. But until then they're creating a better pedestrian plaza to help with leasing since that building was...well it was just awful.

I drove through the other day to visit my brother who lives in a house on Euclid and have to agree those concrete bollards are absurd and the fact those light poles and all those wires still exist is a bit ridiculous. Is there not a way we can push this issue with the city? what's the point of spending all that money if you then in the end just don't remove the hideous wires and lights?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: IAGuy39 on August 25, 2015, 10:30:20 AM
Travis:

I am by no means an expert but I spent some time working on under ground electrical installation / maintenance and we worked in a couple of different cities.  We had a big project in downtown Cedar Rapids, IA.  We did all the infrastructure which includes large plastic conduits, new substation hook ups, etc.  We then pulled the actual new electrical wiring through.  Doing all this took a solid 2 months for about a 4 block stretch.  It was essential the city lengthening the downtown in one direction since new buildings were going up in former surface parking areas, and in the actual downtown the utilities were already buried.

With that said, it still took around 1.5-2 years before the city got around to hooking live the new wiring and taking down the old poles.  Still have no idea why it took so long but, guessing it is just how the city decides to go about the work.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 25, 2015, 10:44:11 AM
It seems like most of the streetscapes in Cincy take around 1-2 years to complete. Walnut Street still has the old utility poles after the new streetscape was installed last summer. 12th Street in Pendleton got redone around the time the casino was built and they finally removed the utility poles last summer.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: IAGuy39 on August 25, 2015, 10:50:26 AM
Yeah, I would guess it has more to do with the fact that they don't want to pay Duke overtime to get it done.  It is probably on a timeline of, construction costs are less to do now with the streetscape and underground utility infrastructure, then we keep Duke on their same schedule and they get it done in their normal operating times, which is scheduled out from 1-2 years from now...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on August 25, 2015, 11:05:25 AM
I just noticed the other day that Duke finally removed the last couple of utility poles at DeSales Corner this spring or summer, and that streetscaping was done in 2008!  https://goo.gl/maps/Ypk1n
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 25, 2015, 12:54:15 PM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/taestell/20869252745/

A dozen very nice 1800s row houses and some early 1920s bungalows on traditional lots were torn down for this junk.  This is one of the craziest, most jumbled-up apartment configurations I've ever seen.  This is what happens when developers with out-of-town ownership and investors are given free reign. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on August 25, 2015, 01:01:36 PM
^ Huh? This was developed by Uptowns largest homegrown developer.  How does it have anything to do with out-of-town ownership when it's a guy who has been owning in Corryville for 30 years?  I'm not saying don't criticize it, but it's two Cincinnati companies who developed it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 25, 2015, 01:09:27 PM
My bad.  I assumed that given the outside ownership of most of the other projects in the area, none of which are attractive.  You don't see good student housing being built pretty much anywhere in the United States.  It always pushes code to absurd limits. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on August 25, 2015, 01:15:46 PM
Actually, all of the major projects in Corryville are local developers.  The two other new construction buildings on Short Vine are Uptown/NAP, the ones on University are Uptown, the ones on Eden ave by MLK are Great Traditions (suburban Cincy), and this one(VP3) and VP4 accross the street are Uptown.  The one at McMillan and Ohio is also Uptown and U Square is Towne. 

The one on Jefferson near Cactus Pear is an out of town company. The one way down McMillan by itself is an out of town company and the under construction new project at Clifton & McMillan is an out of town company.

Uptown Properties has been on a massive building boom lately.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 25, 2015, 02:42:54 PM
It depends on the city they are coming from, but I tend to feel that Cincinnati is a pretty underdeveloped urban real estate market and its infill reflects that.   The student stuff is mindblowingly bad in some cases, about the only uptown infill project I like (and even it has that dumb top floor that should have had brick veneer instead of vinyl) is the building Taste of Belgium is in.  Maybe I just have an inherant anti-cincy native bias, given the severe level of insularity that the city has - they don't know better things and don't care about better things (its not in their small universe) even though historically they had them.  This culture is showing signs of budging but its still held back by too much inertia.

Out of towers may have better infill if they are used to working in intense urban environments.  I think Columbus for instance has better developers, the wood companies should open an office in Cincy, they'd be such a perfect fit - which is all the more shocking because Columbus really doesn't have as good an urban enviornment as Cincy does...

Chicago as a whole has better developers, but we aren't without some absolute duds too.  Though I do understand the arguments about property values and regulatory environment as well as it being a bigger city that attracts higher level talent.   I constantly wish Cincinnatians would aim a little higher though, how can people be so blind to what they have?  Its absurd.   Great Traditions is upping the game and some of 3CDCs stuff is better so I do have some hope, perhaps its just a matter of the market maturing as well as creating an environment where there is a bit more pushback from the community.

I have this feeling of resignation about Corryville, most of the good stuff is long gone even buildings that in any other city would be landmarked.   I understand the student population pressures, but there had to have been a better way of doing this.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on August 25, 2015, 04:06:53 PM
I think that the out-of-town developed project on Jefferson across from Cactus pear is excellent form and pretty high quality materials. I would have added a retail space in the front... but beyond that it's pretty much a great college apartment development.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on August 25, 2015, 04:20:46 PM
The idea that this is somehow unique to Cincy is the only insular thing I'm seeing here.

I went to Denver recently. The infill there is garbage. And the shocking thing in Denver is that because they've had such massive influxes in population recently that you have block after block of pure sh!t that looks exactly like The Banks. One level of concrete + five levels of wood framing with cheap finishes and bad design. But it's fast and easy which is needed in a boom market.

Point being, Cincy isn't unique in having awful infill. Every single city has it but the ones that have matured long enough have moved on to better things because it becomes a selling point. We haven't because our urban revival story is still so short. We'll get there just as other places have, but it's not going to just fall into our lap. We have to demand better and elect people who will as well. We should be using peer cities like Minneapolis as precedent for good urban design, not places like NYC since we're never going to even toy with the prices that city can achieve. I'd love to see some stuff here like what is happening in the Bowery or Meatpacking but they cost 10 times as much per square foot so it's unrealistic to expect that.

What we can expect is infill similar in price to the better projects in Columbus, some of the new construction in Cleveland in the Warehouse District and the Flats East Bank, and strive for eventually being on par with cities like Minneapolis. Working towards that is realistic. But we're not somehow lost because developers are building crap right now. Those cities had the same process.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 25, 2015, 05:11:25 PM
The idea that this is somehow unique to Cincy is the only insular thing I'm seeing here.

I went to Denver recently. The infill there is garbage. And the shocking thing in Denver is that because they've had such massive influxes in population recently that you have block after block of pure sh!t that looks exactly like The Banks. One level of concrete + five levels of wood framing with cheap finishes and bad design. But it's fast and easy which is needed in a boom market.

Point being, Cincy isn't unique in having awful infill. Every single city has it but the ones that have matured long enough have moved on to better things because it becomes a selling point. We haven't because our urban revival story is still so short. We'll get there just as other places have, but it's not going to just fall into our lap. We have to demand better and elect people who will as well. We should be using peer cities like Minneapolis as precedent for good urban design, not places like NYC since we're never going to even toy with the prices that city can achieve. I'd love to see some stuff here like what is happening in the Bowery or Meatpacking but they cost 10 times as much per square foot so it's unrealistic to expect that.

What we can expect is infill similar in price to the better projects in Columbus, some of the new construction in Cleveland in the Warehouse District and the Flats East Bank, and strive for eventually being on par with cities like Minneapolis. Working towards that is realistic. But we're not somehow lost because developers are building crap right now. Those cities had the same process.

I think the difference is with Denver is that the urban environment wasn't very great to begin with.  Its better than most cities in the west, but nothing compared to the east coast, and a few key midwest cities (Chicago, St. Louis, Cincinnati) - they don't really have a point of reference for better architecture and the population boom is putting pressure on them to build fast.  From what I've seen there isn't even equivalent neighborhoods to German Villiage or Short North in Columbus - there at least is something there as a point of reference - maybe that's why Cbus has better infill at an earlier stage in its development?

I guess that's what's surprising about Cincinnati - yes there is bad infill everywhere but its more dramatic when you have such an incredibly beautiful city get it - it mares what was once a pretty awesome environment and cheapens what should be a great city by the time it finally gets around to turning around.   I kind of gasp everytime I see formerly run blocks (saw an article about a street in Northside with some great pictures) where italianate townhouses get revived - Cincy's vernacular is so good compared to most american cities and the people of the region have done a terrible job taking care of it and have been slow to embrace the idea of urban living its frustrating.

San Fran has the opposite issue - they realized what they had was unique and protected it, now its reaching a crisis point of affordability due in part to these protections.   I don't think Cincy should go to that extreme but it deserves so much better than the hand its been dealt in the last 60 years.

Bad infill isn't unique to Cincinnati, I feel what's unique is the attitude locals have towards its assets, other cities with its assets weren't given such a terrible treatment, and got the TLC they deserved many years before Cincinnati finally got around to fixing it.  The two other cities I can think of with excellent historic vernacular that are behind (but still ahead of Cincy in a lot of ways) are St. Louis and Baltimore, but those cities suffered far more from deindustrialization than Cincy did, the  local economies are more to blame, in Cincy its almost entirely cultural so there is no excuse for the poor care of its assets other than a culture that is insular and has a bad attitude about such things. (Plus Cincy's vernacular is better than both of those cities - its really one step below San Fran and Boston).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 26, 2015, 12:13:44 AM
The problem is that Cincinnati residents, and apparently its architects, are completely blind to the great examples that are all around them.  This sort of crap is excusable in a third-rate Southern college town like Murfreesboro, TN or Gainseville, FL where almost nothing respectable exists within a 100-mile radius.  But the real thing often exists on adjacent blocks to this crap that's been going up in Cincinnati since about 2005. 

The first was McMillan Manor, which changed names to Sterling @McMillan, and which is now College Park, or something ridiculous like that.  It is a hideous apartment complex.  Everything since has followed suit -- doing the cheapest construction they can get away with.  Compare those to The Majestic on McMillan or The Roanoke on Ludlow...each are 100 year-old buildings that still radiate an energy into the neighborhood.  Then compare those to the 1960s-1970s complexes like 707/717 MLK and the Monte Michelle Apts on Riddle -- you pull into those places and you struggle to contain a laugh. 


 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on August 26, 2015, 08:00:26 AM
As an architect in Cincinnati, get off your high horse. We are equally annoyed that the people with money have no desire to do these large project correctly. But as it stands there's nothing WE are able to do about it without risking our businesses. You can't just turn down clients left and right because they don't want to spend the extra money. That's a great way to go out of business.


Bad infill happens all the time in contexts with amazing existing building stock. Go over to Skyscraperpage and go to the city compilation threads and go to some of the cities you're thinking of. Read through the projects. Plenty of them look like The Banks and U Square. The only difference in those cities is that because so much more is happening in terms of infill that the swaths of bad construction are overshadowed by the handful of amazing new buildings being built.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: JYP on August 26, 2015, 08:54:27 AM
Value engineering is probably the biggest challenge to quality infill in Cincinnati. Architects draws up amazing buildings but when the contractor is hired they cut out all the good stuff because its not within the bid price.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on August 26, 2015, 09:02:22 AM
Exactly. And on a ton of big projects the architect isn't doing Construction Administration anyway so they no longer even have a say on what is going on. They just sit back and watch their plans simplified and butchered. Hell, look at the original renderings of what U Square's concept was. It wasn't the most amazing thing on earth, but the garages were well hidden, the plaza could be programmed, the buildings were a lot more interesting, and the ground level had much more variation to it. Then the realities of the lack of money the developer wanted to spend came about and it was simplified and value engineered to what it is now. Which is garbage.

Stylistically the projects I work on aren't in line with my taste necessarily, but the quality is top of the line. Which is what I care about most. We design things that people want who are willing to go the extra step to make them come true. And our projects turn out great because of it. But this doesn't translate to large scale projects which is why I would never apply to a firm doing these large student housing projects since they're nothing but disappointing.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Ram23 on August 26, 2015, 09:19:53 AM
There are very few architecture firms willing to do the large scale residential projects that are popping up everywhere in Corryville because of the liability insurance costs. It can be 2-3X the insurance costs for a similar commercial, retail, institutional, etc. building. Condos are a whole other story - the architect had one client, but that client dissolves and suddenly there are 50 property owners who can sue for every paint chip or drip that might occur over the next 40 years. Few firms are willing to touch these types of projects.

But that's a bit aside from the root cause, which is developers' desires to maximize profit margins, students who don't care about aesthetics (and will likely trash the apartments, anyways), and a community that isn't able to protect historic assets.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 26, 2015, 01:12:39 PM
But that's a bit aside from the root cause, which is developers' desires to maximize profit margins, students who don't care about aesthetics (and will likely trash the apartments, anyways), and a community that isn't able to protect historic assets.

The last point is probably the most frustrating for Cincinnati.  Why wasn't the Goetz house protected as a landmark back in the 1970s given its history and ties to one of Cincinnati's chief beer barons?  It boggles the mind.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 26, 2015, 01:20:55 PM
The last point is probably the most frustrating for Cincinnati.  Why wasn't the Goetz house protected as a landmark back in the 1970s given its history and ties to one of Cincinnati's chief beer barons?  It boggles the mind.

Because I think the preservation community in Cincinnati has become somewhat complacent and doesn't start fighting the battles until demolition permits have already been filed (when it's already too late).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 26, 2015, 01:21:58 PM
The problem is that Cincinnati residents, and apparently its architects, are completely blind to the great examples that are all around them.  This sort of crap is excusable in a third-rate Southern college town like Murfreesboro, TN or Gainseville, FL where almost nothing respectable exists within a 100-mile radius.  But the real thing often exists on adjacent blocks to this crap that's been going up in Cincinnati since about 2005. 

I mean, the Enquirer did just publish an LTE where some guy said that Music Hall and Union Terminal were bland and boring, and we need to paint them bright colors to make them pop!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 26, 2015, 01:31:49 PM
The problem is that Cincinnati residents, and apparently its architects, are completely blind to the great examples that are all around them.  This sort of crap is excusable in a third-rate Southern college town like Murfreesboro, TN or Gainseville, FL where almost nothing respectable exists within a 100-mile radius.  But the real thing often exists on adjacent blocks to this crap that's been going up in Cincinnati since about 2005. 

I mean, the Enquirer did just publish an LTE where some guy said that Music Hall and Union Terminal were bland and boring, and we need to paint them bright colors to make them pop!

I'm pinning a more blame on the elites.  Leadership in Cincinnati has set an example of terrible appreciation/management of its assets and doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks either (which isn't always a bad thing, but in Cincy's case it would be good for its culture if it would open up a little bit more and be a bit more welcoming/bit more able to see how they fit contextually with the  rest of the country and or world).  DAAP is a great design school and there is no doubt there are talented architects in the region especially due to DAAP, but they aren't the only ones in charge of putting together projects ;)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on August 26, 2015, 01:39:28 PM
There was  just an article in the Business Courier where John Schneider called for better development and used 8th and Sycamore as an example of not just settling and coming up with something that's both an asset to the community and is used to leverage tens of millions in private investment.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2015/08/is-now-the-time-for-cincinnati-to-demand-better.html

We need to have these conversations now, landmark buildings we think are important even if we don't think they're in danger, and make our voices known at public meetings. Preservation didn't just happen in other cities. It's something that requires constant action and forward thinking.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on August 26, 2015, 02:14:53 PM
Straying a little bit into a tangent here, but it seems that Cincinnati's "embarrassment of riches" is a big part of the problem too.  With a few exceptions to be sure, many cities didn't really start focusing on preservation until much of what was worth preserving was already gone.  It was sort of a "wow we only have this little bit left, we better protect it to make sure we don't lose it all." 

Cataclysmic events tend to galvanize people, like Penn Station obviously.  Cincinnati hasn't really had any major losses of that scale, such as if Union Terminal or Music Hall had been demolished, or the suspension bridge replaced with something more utilitarian.  The significant loss of Kenyon-Barr/Queensgate is tragic yes, but it's not a singular monument that people could keep in their mind's eye, so it's a bit easier for most to overlook.  Plus, even today there's so much historic architecture that the general perception is there's more than enough to go around.  There's already not enough people to keep up all these buildings, so what benefits do you really get by slapping on more historic designations? 

There's also the issue that the greater stock of historic buildings and neighborhoods means more historic review, hearings, paperwork, etc. for an already small staff of people to document and coordinate.  Less than a decade ago you could chat with the Urban Conservator on the phone at length and get personal attention for any historic project you were doing.  Now that office is so overworked they can't even keep track of what's in for permit and review right now.  Same goes for the Preservation Association, their attention is divided between many more projects and buildings and issues than just about any similar sized city, so it's difficult to keep up.  At the same time it's also difficult to expand staff and resources because as I said before the general perception is that there's so much historic stock around that it's not like we're going to lose it all.  Of course the trick is to make sure we don't end up like the frog being slowly boiled or dying from a thousand cuts, which can certainly happen too. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 26, 2015, 03:21:50 PM
Lets pause and think about those other places that have "embarassments of riches", was there a cataclysmic event in San Francisco or Boston that led to this?

In Boston I'm going to guess it was the City Hall, though I'm less sure about San Fran as its biggest loss was pretty comparable to what Cincy lost but on a much smaller scale...

What about Savannah or Charleston?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on August 26, 2015, 03:53:09 PM
Savannah lost three of its public squares and their surrounding buildings to urban renewal and the expansion of a state route and another to the construction of a parking garage which occupied the entirety of one of the squares for 50 years, ending in 2009, which seems to have been the beginning of people realizing that tearing down old for new isn't always good.

Not so sure about Charleston though. I don't know enough about the history of that city.

I'd say Boston was massive disconnect the highways caused. The contrast between the historic built form and the new freeway was much more stark than in most places due to Boston's urban fabric. City Hall likely helped accelerate that desire for preservation.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: old edale on August 26, 2015, 03:54:37 PM
Lets pause and think about those other places that have "embarassments of riches", was there a cataclysmic event in San Francisco or Boston that led to this?

In Boston I'm going to guess it was the City Hall, though I'm less sure about San Fran as its biggest loss was pretty comparable to what Cincy lost but on a much smaller scale...

What about Savannah or Charleston?

I think maybe the great earthquake of 1906 motivated the city early on to cherish and preserve it's built environment.  Why needlessly tear down historic structures when mother nature is capable of doing so on a mass scale? Sounds plausible to me.  Also, the near constant growth of SF over the years also probably has something to do with the preserved nature of it's housing.  It's easy to appreciate historic buildings when they're in good condition and brimming with life.  It's a little tougher to appreciate the value of a historic building when it's vacant, deteriorated, and otherwise blighted.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 26, 2015, 04:06:17 PM
Lets pause and think about those other places that have "embarassments of riches", was there a cataclysmic event in San Francisco or Boston that led to this?

In Boston I'm going to guess it was the City Hall, though I'm less sure about San Fran as its biggest loss was pretty comparable to what Cincy lost but on a much smaller scale...

What about Savannah or Charleston?

I think maybe the great earthquake of 1906 motivated the city early on to cherish and preserve it's built environment.  Why needlessly tear down historic structures when mother nature is capable of doing so on a mass scale? Sounds plausible to me.  Also, the near constant growth of SF over the years also probably has something to do with the preserved nature of it's housing.  It's easy to appreciate historic buildings when they're in good condition and brimming with life.  It's a little tougher to appreciate the value of a historic building when it's vacant, deteriorated, and otherwise blighted.

Chicago had a similar catastrophe in the 1870s but doesn't have nearly as strong a desire for preservation (though stuff that is equivalent to the Goetz house is preserved in Wicker Park the beer baron row is protected at least I'd argue that preservation community has more teeth than it does in Cincy but its a shadow compared to what's in San Fran).  Chicago took a path of complete new city, and by the mid 20th Century it instituted one of the largest urban renewal programs in the whole country (Cincy wasn't too far behind at least according to the book about community relations that also happens to be the best source we have on the west end's tragic fall) and generally isn't as preservation friendly as San Fran in spite of the similar age and similar catastrophes at key moments in their growth.

Outside of the loop and a few other key areas Chicago is a tier below Cincinnati in terms of neighborhood vernacular (though it was a place of much innovation - perhaps its cultural theme is that of rebirth instead of preserving the old?).  San Francisco feels like an older city even though both were founded in 1840 - the rebuilding of San Fran was done more conservatively.

I'm still blown away at how many Italianates in Chicago had their cornices ripped off btw...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on August 26, 2015, 04:10:38 PM
Savannah and Charleston, and to some extent New Orleans, seem to have taken a similar trajectory to Prague in that they fell on hard times enough that redevelopment of old buildings was minimized, but not such hard times that they had wholesale abandonment and blight either, so they just kind of sat and pickled.  That left a cohesive urban (and urbane) fabric that itself is pleasurable to be in, and which also happens to be from a pretty narrow time range, giving it something of a "frozen in amber" quality that also exhibits a strong local vernacular. 

OTR has many of those same benefits, but it's hurt in that it has seen a fair amount of blight and demolition, and it has more typical post-industrial hypertrophic (excessively large) streets than you find in Savannah or especially Charleston and Boston.  Other neighborhoods around the city are much more broken up and incoherent, which doesn't help their appeal.  Plus OTR and Cincinnati in general just isn't quite as old, and there's some subtle but still important differences in our Italianate Victorian architecture which is a stylistic import that's not as well liked by the general populace as the older and more genuinely American Federal/Georgian/Colonial styles. 

San Francisco seems to be a whole separate ballgame in and of itself, and I'm not really sure what the explanation is there.  It could be that the very regular urban fabric is part of the story, where anything contrary to what's already been built is viewed suspiciously.  I tend to view historic preservation there as more of a NIMBY tool to prevent change rather than a strong preference for preserving historic architecture and urban form, but it's a fuzzy line to be sure.  There's also the case that SF is about the only city in the west that has much old stuff at all, so it's a victim to simple supply and demand forces, because they certainly haven't been building any new places out there that aren't positively dreadful from an urbanistic standpoint. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on August 26, 2015, 04:34:09 PM
^That's an interesting point about falling on hard times but not so much so that everything was abandoned and left to fall apart to the point where it wasn't salvageable.

It actually seems like a lot of the older areas in NKY are more intact than some of the older neighborhoods in Cincy for similar (albeit with obvious differences) reasons. They may have fallen on hard times that they still haven't necessarily come out of but most of the buildings in Newport and Covington seem to have never been abandoned. They might have fallen into disrepair due to deferred maintenance but still for the most part were in good enough condition that they could be occupied without extensive work.

Policy differences are also a huge factor. Many cities took a "we don't really give a sh!t" approach to the period of post WWII decline when it came to maintaining the city. It's how you wound up with places like NYC in the 70s. Filthy, disgusting, losing 90,000 people every year, etc. whereas some cities actively demolished anything that was abandoned in order to keep it looking "pretty" but just wound up with empty block after block which likely just accelerated the problems in retrospect.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 26, 2015, 04:42:12 PM
Quote
It actually seems like a lot of the older areas in NKY are more intact than some of the older neighborhoods in Cincy for similar (albeit with obvious differences) reasons. They may have fallen on hard times that they still haven't necessarily come out of but most of the buildings in Newport and Covington seem to have never been abandoned. They might have fallen into disrepair due to deferred maintenance but still for the most part were in good enough condition that they could be occupied without extensive work.

NKY is like a sleeping giant.  The business district in Covington is particularly strong here's hoping that it doesn't go the way of Walnut Hills where the comm council winds up demoing like half of it for pocket parks :P - It really gives me a good feeling of what much of the dense fabric in Cincy was like pre WWII (though smaller and somewhat more southern in vernacular).

Bellevue appears to be the only area that is really taking advantage of it (they also have some of the most intact stock too).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 26, 2015, 04:49:18 PM
Not only has Bellevue put a lot of effort into historic preservation, encouraging homeownership, and bringing back its business district... but they have enacted a form-based code for the one part of the city with big box stores and drive-thrus.  So, years down the road when those properties are re-developed, they will have something really awesome going on.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Rabbit Hash on August 26, 2015, 09:23:34 PM
Really the only area of the NKY core that fell victim to 1960's large-swath urban renewal is the IRS supercenter.  Covington sold part of it's soul for that warehouse of bureaucracy.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on August 26, 2015, 09:37:28 PM
^ and all the fast food restaurants...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: thomasbw on August 26, 2015, 10:02:27 PM
^ and all the fast food restaurants...

Love the RedBike station in the Taco Bell parking lot
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Yves Behar on August 26, 2015, 11:23:53 PM
Wasn't there also a neighborhood where the "Ovation" was supposed to be?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on February 02, 2016, 03:55:28 PM
EXCLUSIVE: Cock & Bull opening 4th location, see why soccer fans will cheer
Quote
Cock & Bull Public House plans to open its fourth Greater Cincinnati location near the University of Cincinnati.
The pub that’s famous for its fish and chips and craft beers on tap signed a lease to take the last remaining space at Uptown Rental Properties’ and North American Properties’ Views on Vine development located at 2825-2875 Vine St. in Corryville. Cock & Bull will open a pub at the southern end of the building
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/02/02/exclusive-cock-bull-opening-4th-location-see-why.html


Great news for Short Vine. They'll do good business and draw a nice crowd, especially on game days.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 02, 2016, 04:51:39 PM
Wasn't there also a neighborhood where the "Ovation" was supposed to be?

That property was owned by the U.S. Army when Ft. Washington was decommissioned.  Eventually that military base was moved to Ft. Thomas, where there are still many buildings remaining from the 1800s.  The Ovation land was public housing up until about 2005. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Cygnus on February 03, 2016, 10:35:34 AM
^ and all the fast food restaurants...

Love the RedBike station in the Taco Bell parking lot

Why run to the border when you can bike?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: tonyt3524 on February 15, 2016, 07:43:30 AM
It's been almost a year since the new streetscape was finished, and it still looks horrible because the city and/or Duke has not yet come around and removed the telephone polls and cobra head lighting:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/642/20843054186_9902f16d25_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xKQ6Rd)


I've been driving past short vine the last few days heading into work and it looks as if they have started taking down these telephone polls. Unfortunately I have not been able to get a good picture.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on February 15, 2016, 10:24:36 AM
I never understood the sheer obsession with telephone poles cluttering things up.  I like clutter, its part of an urban environment IMO.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on February 15, 2016, 10:45:55 AM
^Clutter in the sense of a variety of buildings and street furniture and such is one thing, but janky wood poles with a rat's nest of wiring jumping around all over the place?  Give me a break.  There's nothing about it that isn't ugly, and I think you'll find that your opinion is overwhelmingly in the minority.   Plus what you don't see is the tree canopy that could be there instead.  It's even worse for the people on the upper floors of those buildings, who have to look directly at the poles, wires, and transformers.  Advocating for keeping power lines is like advocating for not fixing potholes, not painting buildings, and not cleaning up litter.  It's a huge turn-off for most people. 

Yes, it is possible to do utility poles in a cleaner more tidy fashion.  They do it in Europe all the time.  It's easier there however because of their higher secondary distribution voltages compared to what we use here.  So rather than having multiple transformers and their attendant wiring on every block, they can have one larger transformer tucked away somewhere that serves several blocks at a time.  They'll then use metal poles and still do service drops underground in preparation for full undergrounding at some point in the future.  Plus none of the telecom stuff is put on the poles with all their junky repeaters, backup batteries, and other crap.  Those are more likely under the sidewalk in a small concrete vault that only requires lifting the sidewalk panels away to access.  Even with wood poles it CAN be done nicely, but it takes some craft that's lacking in the US.  https://goo.gl/maps/R3ZcBA14KmE2
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on February 15, 2016, 11:03:36 AM
I'm also of the opinion though that the sign laws in Cincinnati are too stringent.   Take a look at this old photo of Main Street for instance, it makes Cincinnati seem so incredibly vibrant (though do ignore that the streets are torn up in that shot).:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/c0.126.851.315/p851x315/12615414_10153929522632700_4686476657877055088_o.jpg

Not much different than this (though I guess there aren't overhead wires here):

http://s3.media.squarespace.com/production/447825/5899952/_cNMGcUju8JI/RcFsRWSx6gI/AAAAAAAAAB4/7bfJzh9N4bU/s400/sf-powell-st-1.jpg

Or Chicago (though I'll admit the wires in Chi-town are in alleyways so they are hidden, but this is still an extremely cluttered area):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2560110816_2e923d8c53.jpg

I'm just thinking of the amount of wires you see in East Asia or in cities like San Francisco (which is still a beautiful city, but there is more clutter - bigger signs and more wires in part due to the streetcars and trolleybuses).  I actually find some beauty in it.  Cincinnati IMO really struggles to embrace its sheer urbanity and this is part of it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on February 15, 2016, 11:24:55 AM
It's just that there's nothing inherently urban about wires.  In much of the world, it's the cities where there are no wires, because that's where the wealth and density is sufficient to cover the cost of undergrounding.  There was a big push starting in the 1920s to underground wiring for reasons of civic pride and city beautification.  There were also studies about proper street lighting and paving surfaces that came about at that same time too.  Unfortunately when the depression hit, the focus was put on streets and roads as that was easier for the government to put WPA effort into since the streets are government-owned, while the electric utilities are not.  After that, with cities being strip-mined of their resources in favor of the suburbs, any undergrounding plans or policies had to be shelved. 

As with many things, the US suburban experiment has turned our cities backwards from what you see in most of the world.  Japan's excuse is that overhead electric is more resilient to earthquakes.  The same can probably be said for San Francisco, but that certainly hasn't stopped them from burying wires.  The thing is that in Japan, Europe, and pretty much any place that has some semblance of civility, they at least hide the wires on the main streets.  Even if it's just feeding from behind in an alley, like in Chicago, that makes a huge difference.  It's tough to impress people with your neighborhood business district, the "high street" of the neighborhood if you will, when it's strewn with wires. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on February 15, 2016, 11:34:51 AM
Throughout college I had two people from foreign countries sublease from one of my roommates. Both of them (one from Iran, one from Germany) immediately pointed out and commented on how ugly a lot of our streetscapes were because of the overhead powerlines. They questioned the wisdom of putting them up on cheap wooden poles and the complete lack of organizational standards resulting in a mess of ugly wires directly above the sidewalks.

And I agree with them. They are ugly. The wooden poles are crappy looking, the wires don't add anything that's truly urban to our cities, and they make it impossible for street trees to mature properly since they're just cut back when they reach the wires which is shortly after being planted.

I totally understand wanting clutter, but there's a TYPE of clutter that makes sense in urban areas. And ugly powerlines/telephone lines is not the way to go about achieving that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on February 15, 2016, 01:58:04 PM
I heard a visitor from Korea remark not only about the overhead power lines in Cincinnati, but how our traffic lights dangle from wires rather than being properly mounted on an arm or something more attractive. Most of the time, even when we bury utilities, we leave the traffic lights suspended from wires.

Also, I think cobra head lighting simply does not belong in urban environments. It's fine for above highways -- not city streets.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on February 15, 2016, 02:08:55 PM
Yeah that same comment was made about traffic lights. The guy from Germany actually mentioned how uncomfortable they made him if it was at all windy out since they flop around aimlessly in a slight breeze.

Our utility infrastructure is far behind most of our peers. Peers that have significantly more urban environments than we do.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on February 15, 2016, 02:28:02 PM
Agreed about the cobraheads.  Chicago is rather striking in that regard though.  As far as the traffic signals, that used to bother me but it doesn't so much anymore.  One thing you can say about the span wire setup is that it's about as visually unobtrusive as possible.  This is especially true with typical Ohio practice (if only Duke would follow suit).  There's minimal wires and they're wrapped tightly to one another which is very clean.  At least in the city they hang all the signals and signs so their bottoms align.  This allows a bottom tether to be installed where needed (and I think it should be standard practice honestly, to keep the signals from swinging around in the wind), which was done at I-71 and Dana because of some weird quirk of the terrain that causes strong winds to twist the signals around.  https://goo.gl/maps/DM6Kko3zGT82

Compare that to Kentucky with their loose hangar wires and generally sloppy install (gross!) https://goo.gl/maps/ChXRsh6aF9y

Or Indiana and their over-engineered catenary.  https://goo.gl/maps/bDpjhZ9nNKv 

That said, mast arms and truss arms can get to be pretty massive especially at large intersections.  I don't think that's an improvement necessarily.  https://goo.gl/maps/EhcqwVToC9y
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Ram23 on February 15, 2016, 03:14:24 PM
^ That Kenwood Road truss arm is massive, and likely very expensive. I can't even imagine what the moment is on that thing, or how deep that foundation pier must be.

I was recently in Taiwan and was impressed by their complete lack of signaling. Some intersections don't even have signage at all. People just drive up to them and slowly drive through them, and somehow everything works out. People are much more careful when there's nothing to provide a sense of security.

https://goo.gl/maps/4dgJdQRLRVn
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on February 17, 2016, 03:16:17 PM
I heard a visitor from Korea remark not only about the overhead power lines in Cincinnati, but how our traffic lights dangle from wires rather than being properly mounted on an arm or something more attractive. Most of the time, even when we bury utilities, we leave the traffic lights suspended from wires.

Also, I think cobra head lighting simply does not belong in urban environments. It's fine for above highways -- not city streets.

I had never seen wired hanging traffic lights until I moved to Cincinnati.  The three friends from CA that I've had visited all mentioned it almost instantly. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on February 17, 2016, 06:24:31 PM
It all depends on where you grew up.  Span wires are the norm east of the Mississippi River (with the exception of Wisconsin and Illinois), and mast arms everywhere else, but with many installation varieties.  Cincinnati and Dayton's signal color scheme (black bodies, black visors, and yellow doors) is actually unique to southwest Ohio.  Go figure.  The move is towards mast arms in general, but they are quite a bit more expensive.  Here's a spreadsheet I got some 8 years ago (not sure where) that gives a good outline of typical state practice. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on February 17, 2016, 07:11:49 PM
UO is turning into AARoads
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jjakucyk on February 17, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Nerds of the world unite! 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: lobanio0 on April 14, 2016, 12:46:23 PM
New development 75M coming to Corryville,Clifton heights,Mt. Auburn intersection:
http://m.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/14/75m-mixed-use-project-planned-for-uptown.html
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160414/8a37489e22c352c0faebf9f747e5c262.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160414/8ef5f42940f4ec5be42ed7cdb6a24fd9.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 14, 2016, 12:48:19 PM
Are they tearing down Mole's Records?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: joshknut on April 14, 2016, 12:50:22 PM
From the rendering it looks like it is all before Scioto St, so I don't think so.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: chinkley on April 14, 2016, 12:59:06 PM
There's no way that building is within zoning height limits, is there?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 14, 2016, 12:59:27 PM
No you can see on the rendering that there is more "stuff" planned on the current gravel parking lot.  There are a few derelict homes still standing on the north side of McMillan there.  And then Mole's and the various hookah bars are there on the south side of Calhoun.  That chunk of old buildings is in real danger of disappearing and being replaced by more low-quality midrise apartments. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ink on April 14, 2016, 01:00:41 PM
I like that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on April 14, 2016, 01:12:14 PM
I'm not holding out hope for the materials of the apartment building, but I like the site plan and the general look of the hotel.

My biggest concern with this site was always getting street frontage along both Calhoun and McMillan and this has it so I'm happy in that regard.

I also like the integration of the bus stop into the hotel entrance area.

It appears this definitely takes over that gravel lot but stops short of any of the existing historic buildings.

Also, thank god the parking is underground...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on April 14, 2016, 01:19:14 PM
Very interesting. I like that they're going to to deliberately target a non-student demographic since that will add more balance to the community:

Quote
The residential space is planned to include more than 130 apartments catering to the 55 and older active adult community. Ealy said adding that segment to the area will help, especially in months when college students leave for break.
“That 55 and older group helps stabilize the community,” Ealy said.
Gateway to Uptown is planned with 17,000 square feet of street-level retail with a goal of including unique restaurants. The underground parking garage will have between 350 and 400 parking spaces.
In addition, Gateway to Uptown is planned with an event center with space for 500 people. Other amenities of the project will include rooftop spaces for residents and hotel guests with a rooftop bar that will offer views of the city.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 14, 2016, 01:25:09 PM
It's possible that if the development bridges both sides of Scioto St., that they will be able to build a contiguous parking garage underneath it like The Banks. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on April 14, 2016, 01:37:25 PM
If I had to guess the parking garage will be accessed only from entries within the base of the hotel, will be located just far enough from McMillan to get a row of townhomes built, a la VP3, 101 East Corry, the Verge, etc. and will fill the majority of that block but stop short of Scioto. Makes the most sense from an economics and logistical standpoint.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Wally on April 14, 2016, 02:02:11 PM
I'm glad to see this parcel is finally being developed.  I was just driving by this property over the weekend and commented to my wife that it seemed like this site has been sitting vacant for many years (back to the early 2000s when the old Prime Time Nightclub was torn down).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on April 14, 2016, 02:03:44 PM
I'm hoping that this scale development jumps Vine and continues between Taft and Calhoun up to Auburn. That whole block could house a ton of buildings but instead houses a bunch of parking spaces and three small suburban buildings instead.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Cincinnatus on April 14, 2016, 02:21:01 PM
I don't go to Uptown as often as I used to, so when I drove through recently I was blown away by how much development is occurring there. Insane!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on April 14, 2016, 02:33:07 PM
Quote
I'm glad to see this parcel is finally being developed.  I was just driving by this property over the weekend and commented to my wife that it seemed like this site has been sitting vacant for many years (back to the early 2000s when the old Prime Time Nightclub was torn down).

Me too, though the stuff that was around the primetime night club should have never been torn down.  I'm kind of wondering if PrimeTime was really an ugly 1970s buidling or was it a midcentury recladding of something older?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on April 14, 2016, 02:48:42 PM
I thought I saw a picture somewhere on here that was just a big ugly blank brick box. Nothing with any sort of character or notable features.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: gaslight on April 14, 2016, 03:02:08 PM
One more reason to get the streetcar up vine.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Rabbit Hash on April 14, 2016, 03:02:28 PM
Primetime needed to go if for no other reason than that horrible and unusable garage. I swear there had to be dead bodies in there.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on April 14, 2016, 03:25:50 PM
Everything about that place was creepy.  I don't ever remember it being an active nightclub...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 14, 2016, 03:43:17 PM
Everything about that place was creepy.  I don't ever remember it being an active nightclub...

I think it closed in the mid-90s.  Before Prime Time I think it was called Burgundy's.  The Mad Frog was also closed for many years, maybe 10 years before it reopened as a Dave Mathews jam band bar around 2000.  It took a sleazy turn around 2010 when the Russians bought it.  There was a horrible meat market club in University Plaza called Vertigo's during that whole time, next to the Pizza Hut and facing Blockbuster.   

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Cincinnatus on April 14, 2016, 03:48:02 PM
Oh my gosh, Jake! You just brought back some crazy memories for me with Vertigo comment! I saw some DJ's spin there back in the day. That was back when being a successful DJ meant you literally had to spin.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on April 14, 2016, 03:51:44 PM
Quote
It took a sleazy turn around 2010 when the Russians bought it.

They also did the horrible crime of painting it red too,  I know their are red frogs in tropical countries but aren't they poisonous  :-D
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 14, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
Oh my gosh, Jake! You just brought back some crazy memories for me with Vertigo comment! I saw some DJ's spin there back in the day. That was back when being a successful DJ meant you literally had to spin.

Do you remember Cody's Café on Calhoun?  It's where one of the hookah places is now and it was in a bigger space than what is now there, with I think a balcony that overlooked what is now the Deja Shoe rear parking lot.  One summer I spent almost every night either there or at Fries. 

I had a roommate for that summer who met his wife at that Cody's.  She was a nanny from the Czech Republic.  One day he rallied all of her nanny friends and he, I, and about eight Czech nannies went canoeing on the Little Miami.  For some reason they really wanted to go to the Macaroni Grill in Tri-County afterward. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Rabbit Hash on April 14, 2016, 04:36:53 PM
Oh my gosh, Jake! You just brought back some crazy memories for me with Vertigo comment! I saw some DJ's spin there back in the day. That was back when being a successful DJ meant you literally had to spin.

Do you remember Cody's Café on Calhoun?  It's where one of the hookah places is now and it was in a bigger space than what is now there, with I think a balcony that overlooked what is now the Deja Shoe rear parking lot.  One summer I spent almost every night either there or at Fries. 

I had a roommate for that summer who met his wife at that Cody's.  She was a nanny from the Czech Republic.  One day he rallied all of her nanny friends and he, I, and about eight Czech nannies went canoeing on the Little Miami.  For some reason they really wanted to go to the Macaroni Grill in Tri-County afterward. 


That sounds like the plot to a porn movie. LOL. Vertigo was named Cooter's before. Mr. K's, R-Club, and Clifton Bay Yacht Club were some erstwhile crapholes...but they were so much fun!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: Cincinnatus on April 14, 2016, 04:45:03 PM
Oh my gosh, Jake! You just brought back some crazy memories for me with Vertigo comment! I saw some DJ's spin there back in the day. That was back when being a successful DJ meant you literally had to spin.

Do you remember Cody's Café on Calhoun?  It's where one of the hookah places is now and it was in a bigger space than what is now there, with I think a balcony that overlooked what is now the Deja Shoe rear parking lot.  One summer I spent almost every night either there or at Fries. 

I had a roommate for that summer who met his wife at that Cody's.  She was a nanny from the Czech Republic.  One day he rallied all of her nanny friends and he, I, and about eight Czech nannies went canoeing on the Little Miami.  For some reason they really wanted to go to the Macaroni Grill in Tri-County afterward. 


I don't remember, but I agree with rabbit hash on this one lol

I saw a couple of good DJ's at Red Cheetah too. Man, time flies. I remember the lines at Red Cheetah would span around the block.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 14, 2016, 05:31:47 PM
This is Columbus OSU news, but it pertains directly to UC:

http://www.columbusalive.com/content/stories/2016/04/14/vinyl-jeopardy-the-disappearance-of-the-on-campus-record-store.html

There are still at least a dozen independent stores around UC, but what's so amazing is how some of the same people who say they want independent stores cheer on the very developments that wipe them out.  In the past, small independent shops occupied upper floors, basements, and other odd-shaped or small retail spaces that the chains wouldn't.  Some of those are still around, like Daniel's Pub (basement bar) and the various Hookah and smoke shops that rent odd retail spaces.  Mr. Tuxedo is one of the last businesses in a house with a retail add-on.  There used to be a lot more of that kind of stuff, back when national chains had almost no presence on any college's retail and bar strip.

Now go to any big university -- OSU, UC, Tennessee (I was just there last week), and you will see the exact same junk -- Panera Bread, Chipotle, American Apparel, etc.  The new apartment complexes are all being put up by the same national companies and are built in generally the same style.   

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: old edale on April 14, 2016, 10:00:36 PM
Hope they have the financing in place. This would be a definite game changer for 'Uptown', and the height and scale of development is very impressive. If this comes to fruition as planned, it will make the Kroger and Walgreens development look even more ridiculous than it is currently. The development team seems a little rag tag to me- at least it's not a large, well known regional/national developer. That does raise a few eyebrows for me about capacity to get financing, but I sincerely hope they succeed and that that break ground before the end of the year, as they are hoping to.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: thebillshark on April 14, 2016, 11:04:47 PM
This is where I had an underground light rail station:

https://cincinnatiideas.wordpress.com/uptown-light-rail/

This is a good project with a good mix of uses for Uptown however. (Even if it changes my plan  :-) )
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 15, 2016, 12:19:12 AM
So new ugly apt. complex #17 on Taft at Auburn is nearing completion...just saw tonight that there will be TWO driveway entrances directly onto Taft right there at the mean little curve that everyone likes to whip around.  Who down at city hall is approving this stuff? 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on April 18, 2016, 03:39:36 PM
I will, unfortunately, put the likelihood of this new Vine & Calhoun project happening at 50%. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on April 18, 2016, 03:45:20 PM
Based on, what, exactly?

There's demand for new housing, there's demand for hotel rooms right by campus, the community has been pushing for this for ages, etc. No aspect of the project is overly ambitious or out of the ordinary. It's the exact same type of apartment complex being built all over Uptown and a pretty standard looking hotel building. Nothing crazy.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ucgrady on April 18, 2016, 04:40:36 PM
Do you think the fact there is not a national hotel brand associated makes it seem less likely? I read the whole Courier article and saw no brand or developer that I recognized, but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: OCtoCincy on April 19, 2016, 04:33:47 PM
Do you think the fact there is not a national hotel brand associated makes it seem less likely? I read the whole Courier article and saw no brand or developer that I recognized, but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen.

That is a huge part of it.  The last person to announce a major hotel without a single hotel partner announced or even in the wings was the SCPA hotel.  Also, their financing plan has large gaps, etc.  Trust me, I'd want this to happen, but when you have a first phase of a parking garage, and a second phase of actually building things, it sounds a lot more like we're going to get a parking garage with some hope for future development.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: nicker66 on April 20, 2016, 02:39:14 PM
I do not have knowledge of a hotel brand for this specific project, but I believe the Rookwood hotels proceeded without knowing the exact Marriott brand.  They knew they would be from the Marriott family, just not specifically a Courtyard and Residence Inn.  Hopefully for this project, they have a brand but not the specific hotel.  From what I've heard, this project is a go and it just takes time to get moving like anything else. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on May 12, 2016, 01:49:01 PM
Bogart's has a new paint scheme -- has to be seen to be believed. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmicha on May 12, 2016, 02:58:14 PM
I saw they put up scaffolding when I went over my brother's house recently. What colors did they paint it?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 04, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
Short Vine is looking much better now that most (not all) of the utility poles and terrible cobrahead lighting have been removed.

(http://s.mlkshk-cdn.com/r/19E97)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on August 04, 2016, 02:37:42 PM
^Agreed! Short Vine is looking so much nicer these days.

Speaking of which... does anybody know when the Kroger is scheduled to open? And what's the plan for the second floor of the Kroger? It doesn't appear to be a "fake" floor (like the Walgreens)... so there must be some plan to actually use that second floor.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: SleepyLeroy on August 04, 2016, 02:38:32 PM
Cool before and after shot! You even got similar lighting & skies. Makes it look like they got the work done in an hour or two.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 04, 2016, 02:56:18 PM
^Agreed! Short Vine is looking so much nicer these days.

Speaking of which... does anybody know when the Kroger is scheduled to open? And what's the plan for the second floor of the Kroger? It doesn't appear to be a "fake" floor (like the Walgreens)... so there must be some plan to actually use that second floor.

Many of the newer Kroger stores (even suburban ones) have managers offices on the second floor over the checkout area. If you look towards the front of the building they have windows that face out into the interior of the store where the boss man can look over the whole place.

Cool before and after shot! You even got similar lighting & skies. Makes it look like they got the work done in an hour or two.

Thanks! Got lucky with that one.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: tonyt3524 on August 04, 2016, 03:01:42 PM
^Agreed! Short Vine is looking so much nicer these days.

Speaking of which... does anybody know when the Kroger is scheduled to open? And what's the plan for the second floor of the Kroger? It doesn't appear to be a "fake" floor (like the Walgreens)... so there must be some plan to actually use that second floor.

Many of the newer Kroger stores (even suburban ones) have managers offices on the second floor over the checkout area. If you look towards the front of the building they have windows that face out into the interior of the store where the boss man can look over the whole place.

From my understanding it's going to be a true two-story grocery store with the lack of space they had available.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 04, 2016, 03:05:51 PM
When I was interviewed to work at a Kroger video dept in 1997, the interview was in the office above the check-out area.  Lots of wood-paneled walls + a copy machine, file cabinets, bulletin boards, thumb tacks, motivational posters, water cooler.  Oh, and a window looking out over the whole store. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ink on August 04, 2016, 03:28:26 PM
Short Vine is looking much better now that most (not all) of the utility poles and terrible cobrahead lighting have been removed.


Quite a difference! Good shots.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ucgrady on August 04, 2016, 03:44:22 PM
^Agreed! Short Vine is looking so much nicer these days.

Speaking of which... does anybody know when the Kroger is scheduled to open? And what's the plan for the second floor of the Kroger? It doesn't appear to be a "fake" floor (like the Walgreens)... so there must be some plan to actually use that second floor.

Many of the newer Kroger stores (even suburban ones) have managers offices on the second floor over the checkout area. If you look towards the front of the building they have windows that face out into the interior of the store where the boss man can look over the whole place.

From my understanding it's going to be a true two-story grocery store with the lack of space they had available.

It is not a full two story grocery. Last time I checked the 2nd floor is a mezzanine around the outside of the building only (with the middle section being open full height space) and holds mostly back of house prep spaces, food coolers/freezers and offices. However it does also have a seating area for Starbucks, wine tasting etc above the cafe area.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: tonyt3524 on August 04, 2016, 03:45:59 PM
^Agreed! Short Vine is looking so much nicer these days.

Speaking of which... does anybody know when the Kroger is scheduled to open? And what's the plan for the second floor of the Kroger? It doesn't appear to be a "fake" floor (like the Walgreens)... so there must be some plan to actually use that second floor.

Many of the newer Kroger stores (even suburban ones) have managers offices on the second floor over the checkout area. If you look towards the front of the building they have windows that face out into the interior of the store where the boss man can look over the whole place.

From my understanding it's going to be a true two-story grocery store with the lack of space they had available.

It is not a full two story grocery. Last time I checked the 2nd floor is a mezzanine around the outside of the building only (with the middle section being open full height space) and holds mostly back of house prep spaces, food coolers/freezers and offices. However it does also have a seating area for Starbucks, wine tasting etc above the cafe area.

Awesome! Thanks for clearing that up for me. The information I had was spotty at best.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: savadams13 on August 05, 2016, 01:38:51 PM
Quote from: ucgrady on April 18, 2016, 04:54:24 PM
Do you think the fact there is not a national hotel brand associated makes it seem less likely? I read the whole Courier article and saw no brand or developer that I recognized, but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen.

That is a huge part of it.  The last person to announce a major hotel without a single hotel partner announced or even in the wings was the SCPA hotel.  Also, their financing plan has large gaps, etc.  Trust me, I'd want this to happen, but when you have a first phase of a parking garage, and a second phase of actually building things, it sounds a lot more like we're going to get a parking garage with some hope for future development.

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26241.315.html#ixzz4GTwvzcQK

The Hotel proposed where the old Burgundy's Prime Time will be an Element by Starwood. I know from a couple sources plus the rendering has the Element "E" on the side of the rendering.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ColDayMan on November 11, 2016, 11:55:10 PM
Cincinnati Children’s approves major expansion

(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/9652382/cincinnati-childrens-exterior-of-william-cooper-procter-pavilion-left-and*750xx4256-2394-0-219.jpg)

Cincinnati Children’s Hospital Medical Center is about to embark on a major expansion, the Enquirer reports.

The hospital’s board of trustees recently approved a plan to expand its number of beds in Corryville and Avondale by more than 30 percent. The plan includes the construction of 600,000 square feet of clinical-care space and renovating existing buildings at its Burnet Avenue campus. A new emergency department, expanded loading dock, pharmacy, kitchen space and respite space for staff will also be created.

More below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/11/11/cincinnati-children-s-approves-major-expansion.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 15, 2016, 08:45:44 AM
Corry Street has been re-striped and now has a center turn lane. A traffic light has also been added at the intersection of Short Vine and West Corry Street, which is also the main way to enter/exit the parking lot of the new Kroger.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on March 13, 2017, 03:58:32 AM
$150k?  Seriously?
https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1528507/3201-Jefferson-Ave-Corryville-OH-45220

This was the former Indian restaurant turned illegal casino called The Boneyard which experienced a fire back in 2012 or 2013 and was torn town soon thereafer. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on March 13, 2017, 11:24:54 AM
Now they want $250K. Your post triggered a Google Alert that increased the value by $100k.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: JYP on March 14, 2017, 10:35:03 AM
Now they want $250K. Your post triggered a Google Alert that increased the value by $100k.

They call that "the Mecklenborg effect."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on March 20, 2017, 08:22:45 PM
So apparently this "map" (https://www.instagram.com/p/BR4Lt8Ehhj7/) is in the new Corryville Kroger:

(https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x750/sh0.08/e35/17437435_593135264215319_8296040047338061824_n.jpg)

No one working at Kroger noticed how bad and how wrong this is because they probably don't know where any of those institutions are located.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ColDayMan on March 21, 2017, 12:20:49 AM
Yikes.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 22, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
The Cock & Bull in Hyde Park is building a new restaurant in the long-vacant space next to Taste of Belgium. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: JYP on April 22, 2017, 08:19:58 PM
The Cock & Bull in Hyde Park is building a new restaurant in the long-vacant space next to Taste of Belgium. 

Finally! Only took them 2 years!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on May 14, 2017, 02:19:51 PM
Tom Waits bought a guitar at Mike's Music this past weekend.  Famous people buy guitars there several times a year...I talk to one of the workers fairly often and he always gives the update.  He said Ke$ha made them keep the store open about two years ago and showed up with her mom, screwed around for about an hour, and didn't buy anything.  He said she's really, really dumb. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: moonloop on May 14, 2017, 09:31:34 PM
^what!??! One of my faves. Tom Waits, not Kesha.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on May 14, 2017, 10:36:40 PM
That looks like it could be the 3rd floor where the really good guitars are.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on May 14, 2017, 11:10:57 PM
Also, the owner of the guitar shop owns the building so it's not going anywhere for awhile.  But with Short Vine rapidly filling out he'll be under pressure to sell at some point. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ColDayMan on June 10, 2017, 01:26:33 AM
Short Vine project combines buildings for larger bar, apartments

(https://media.bizj.us/view/img/10494819/2610vinestreetmixeduseformer*180xx769-577-128-0.jpg)

Construction is expected to wrap up this summer on a renovation project that combined two Short Vine buildings, creating a much larger Dive Bar and two new apartments.

More below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/09/short-vine-project-combines-buildings-for-larger.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on September 15, 2017, 02:23:57 PM
According to the September 15 Planning Commission notes (page 19) (http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/sep-15-2017-packet/), Corryville is asking for Short Vine to officially be renamed from Vine Street to Short Vine Street.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on September 15, 2017, 02:45:00 PM
According to the September 15 Planning Commission notes (page 19) (http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/sep-15-2017-packet/), Corryville is asking for Short Vine to officially be renamed from Vine Street to Short Vine Street.

Dan Schimberg of Uptown Rental Properties told me about a year ago that they were going to push for this, because most people around UC don't know what you're talking about when you say "Short Vine".
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on September 15, 2017, 02:45:46 PM
^Crazy.  Getting lost looking for Bogart's was a right of passage before GPS. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: helmespc on September 18, 2017, 12:37:29 PM
Can we just rename Jefferson to "Vine" if they rename "Short Vine"?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on September 18, 2017, 02:28:52 PM
Can we just rename Jefferson to "Vine" if they rename "Short Vine"?

I like that idea. While we're at it, we could also get rid of .4 mile segment of Jefferson between Ludlow and Nixon. To clear up naming, I'd make the following changes:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on September 18, 2017, 02:43:11 PM
The original early 1980s proposal for MLK would have renamed all of Madison, Hopple, and Westwood-Northern as "MLK Drive".   The argument was that we'd have one east-west road that crossed most of the county. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: helmespc on September 18, 2017, 04:58:25 PM
The original early 1980s proposal for MLK would have renamed all of Madison, Hopple, and Westwood-Northern as "MLK Drive".   The argument was that we'd have one east-west road that crossed most of the county. 

Eastsiders and Westsiders couldn't agree that this just makes sense?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: thebillshark on September 18, 2017, 05:21:32 PM
The original early 1980s proposal for MLK would have renamed all of Madison, Hopple, and Westwood-Northern as "MLK Drive".   The argument was that we'd have one east-west road that crossed most of the county. 

Eastsiders and Westsiders couldn't agree that this just makes sense?

This just blew my mind that Westwood Northern Blvd. and Madison Rd. are actually the same street.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on September 18, 2017, 06:08:40 PM
for reference, Madison used to dead end at Woodburn. There was no street thAT connected west from Woodburn at DeSales Corner. You had to go north or south on Woodburn to find a different cross street
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ColDayMan on December 07, 2017, 06:13:39 PM
You've known it as Short Vine; now it's official

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/a2823a858254d127d02cc16c3ecd97c329cf3b8e/c=55-0-2183-1600&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/2015/12/17/Cincinnati/Cincinnati/635859750552516189-bogarts-1.jpg)

One of Cincinnati’s quirks is getting a little less odd as the Short Vine Entertainment District was officially named such at an unveiling ceremony this morning.

Cincinnatians have called the portion of Vine Street between East Corry Street and the Martin Luther King Jr./Jefferson Avenue interchange by the Short Vine nickname for years. On Thursday morning Vice Mayor David Mann and the Short Vine Business Association members hosted a ceremony to unveil its official name change from Vine Street to Short Vine.

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/12/07/youve-known-it-as-short-vine-now-its-official.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 07, 2017, 09:18:34 PM
So it's just "Short Vine" and not "Short Vine Street"? Bogart's new mailing address will be 2621 Short Vine, Cincinnati, OH 45219.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on December 08, 2017, 02:03:44 PM
The original early 1980s proposal for MLK would have renamed all of Madison, Hopple, and Westwood-Northern as "MLK Drive".   The argument was that we'd have one east-west road that crossed most of the county. 

Eastsiders and Westsiders couldn't agree that this just makes sense?

This just blew my mind that Westwood Northern Blvd. and Madison Rd. are actually the same street.

Look up lake st in Chicago, see how far it goes :).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: BigDipper 80 on December 08, 2017, 02:25:52 PM
The original early 1980s proposal for MLK would have renamed all of Madison, Hopple, and Westwood-Northern as "MLK Drive".   The argument was that we'd have one east-west road that crossed most of the county. 

Eastsiders and Westsiders couldn't agree that this just makes sense?

This just blew my mind that Westwood Northern Blvd. and Madison Rd. are actually the same street.

That's *nothing*, up here in Dayton we have a road that's alternately named Turner, Shoup Mill, Needmore, Harshman, or Woodman depending on where you are, plus it has the honorific title of Wright Brothers Parkway.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 08, 2017, 02:37:53 PM
The idea of a single road that runs the length of the county probably was a good idea pre-interstates, but now no one drives on local roads more than they need to, so it really doesn't matter. However I am always jealous of cities that keep their street grid numbering pattern going beyond the CBD and have extremely highly numbered streets, like 257th Street. Here in Cincinnati it only goes up to 15th Street.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: wjh2 on December 08, 2017, 02:57:00 PM
The idea of a single road that runs the length of the county probably was a good idea pre-interstates, but now no one drives on local roads more than they need to, so it really doesn't matter. However I am always jealous of cities that keep their street grid numbering pattern going beyond the CBD and have extremely highly numbered streets, like 257th Street. Here in Cincinnati it only goes up to 15th Street.

On the northern side of Oakley there are 28th - 34th street then it randomly stops again and switches back to names. I am curious what grid they were a part of...maybe pre-I-71 the numbers continued into Norwood.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on December 08, 2017, 02:59:03 PM
Numbering also resumes in Carthage up to at least 77th Street.

Also, the official name is now "Short Vine Street"
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: edale on December 08, 2017, 03:30:45 PM
Yeah, I was just going to say, up by the famous (infamous) Indian car dealership in the Carthage/Bond Hill area, there are several numbered streets in the 70s and maybe 80s. I remember when I first saw them, I thought “is this area actually 79 blocks from the river?”
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on December 08, 2017, 03:32:51 PM
There continues to be the notion in Cincinnati that Vine St. is the region's "main" street.  Fact is that Vine then Springfield Pike are certainly not the axis around the Cincinnati universe spins.  Reading is the only road that goes more or less from one side of the county to the other, continuously.  Colerain doesn't make it quite so far south and Montgomery has a name change. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ryanlammi on December 08, 2017, 03:41:29 PM
^I would say Reading is the dividing line of the county and Vine is the dividing line of city. The county seems to be skewed more to the east than the city is.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on December 08, 2017, 05:05:22 PM
The idea of a single road that runs the length of the county probably was a good idea pre-interstates, but now no one drives on local roads more than they need to, so it really doesn't matter. However I am always jealous of cities that keep their street grid numbering pattern going beyond the CBD and have extremely highly numbered streets, like 257th Street. Here in Cincinnati it only goes up to 15th Street.

On the northern side of Oakley there are 28th - 34th street then it randomly stops again and switches back to names. I am curious what grid they were a part of...maybe pre-I-71 the numbers continued into Norwood.

Yeah, I noticed that recently, but those do not appear to connect to Cincinnati's street grid. They are north-south streets where Cincinnati's numbered streets are east-west. Possible that they were intended to connect to numbered streets in Norwood.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on December 08, 2017, 05:07:19 PM
Yeah the numbered streets in Oakley are much more enigmatic than the ones in Elmwood Place/Carthage. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: IAGuy39 on December 08, 2017, 05:21:39 PM
Interesting it ends on 15th street from East to West.  It probably would have ended just a bit further up the road and maybe across the way of the West End? 

I am guessing it ended at 15th Street because this was the dividing line of the city of Cincinnati for awhile before the Northern Liberties, correct?

After that because of the topography it would have been difficult to keep adding the numbers on the street grid it seems like.

Heck, even my hometown Cedar Rapids, IA has streets going up to 42nd street to my knowledge.  They have it laid out like, NE, SE, NW, SW.

The funny thing though is that they connect like 21st Street NE, Dividing line 1st Avenue, then it crosses over to 21st Street SE, but the streets run East to West.  This is because the original grid there was placed on the Cedar River which runs NW to SE, and 1st Avenue runs perpendicular to that until about 29th Street then heads straight north and south.  So the SE side of town is actually geographically East North East to East South East, and the SW side of town is East South East to West South West.  Then, as you go north of 29th Street, the SE side of town is geographically actually the NE side of town, and the NE side of town is geographically the NW side of town!

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cedar+Rapids,+IA/@41.9859833,-91.7001074,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x87e45f7aa02f4251:0x55ee60432ce6ddc0!8m2!3d41.9778795!4d-91.6656232

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 28, 2018, 01:58:52 AM
Read a rumor elsewhere that the coffee shop currently inside the former Top Cat's building will move to the former Buzz Coffee House (most recently TAZA hookah lounge) when Top Cat's returns. 

 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on May 21, 2018, 10:50:43 AM
Read a rumor elsewhere that the coffee shop currently inside the former Top Cat's building will move to the former Buzz Coffee House (most recently TAZA hookah lounge) when Top Cat's returns. 
The storefront of the old Taza / Paradise Hookah building is being restored. Looks like they're bringing back a front entrance at the corner, as was presumably the original layout of the building. Most recently, the only entrance was up University Ave on the side of the building. It always makes me happy to see partially filled-in storefronts get restored. Hopefully they'll ditch the tinted glass too.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jixRaUJ3PpECa8ty89SkVcXoftqp9ES1e1MWNvjsxiBf2AXaXSNA0vrsss0cF11LhnateIfsf4-qAnQfXKbLIXF7gPAkUw-dy_-ILZV-mpXf80BTsJFrjJE1LzSl8gnFRo-EqoL1umY=w1314-h918-no)

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: brian korte on August 13, 2018, 02:07:02 PM
According to the latest Planning Commission Packet the duo of Uptown Rental Properties and North American Properties want to develop a 3 building, 202-unit residential property with 231 parking spaces in a structured parking garage (beneath the buildings) in the area bounded by Eden, Donahue, Bellevue, and University Avenues.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 13, 2018, 02:44:27 PM
I wonder if they're going to tear down their small circa-1998 buildings along Bellevue. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: edale on August 13, 2018, 02:55:36 PM
According to the planning packet, they will demolish those buildings. I couldn't visualize them, so I took a look on streetview and they are some fairly ugly, vinyl siding clad structures. No real loss, especially since the site will see an increase of ~180 units once they're removed.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 13, 2018, 04:05:47 PM
It looks like the only building on that block worth saving would've been this old church (https://goo.gl/maps/ZStVCtHdseL2) ... if it wouldn't have already been demolished something between 2014 and 2016. The USquare-ification of Corryville continues!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: IAGuy39 on August 13, 2018, 04:22:51 PM
I walked from Mecklenburg Gardens to the FC game last Saturday. That area is really changing over quickly.

I still think eventually Walnut Hills and the university area will be connected, in 10 years or so.  Maybe not fully connected but I can see a lot of overlap happening. Perhaps the McMillan corridor could support some start up businesses and become a business area in the Walnut Hills proper area.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: taestell on August 13, 2018, 06:13:10 PM
Hopefully both McMillan and Taft/Calhoun get fully converted to two-way some day and turn into nice urban streets connecting our Uptown neighborhoods and Walnut Hills, rather than the car sewers they are today.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: neilworms on August 14, 2018, 11:25:24 AM
It looks like the only building on that block worth saving would've been this old church (https://goo.gl/maps/ZStVCtHdseL2) ... if it wouldn't have already been demolished something between 2014 and 2016. The USquare-ification of Corryville continues!

The church is already gone :(.   Corryville is such a tragedy.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1333443,-84.5058011,3a,75y,132.74h,73.56t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ssA86PaHgQY2jwcLf4rPlBA!2e0!5s20161001T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on August 17, 2018, 05:31:18 PM
Due the topography, the parking garage won't be visible from the street level along University and Bellevue. There's a ~35' elevation change in this one block. So, unfortunately, the street view from Donahue will be mostly dominated by the parking structure. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ColDayMan on August 18, 2018, 01:27:20 AM
$30 million apartment development planned near UC, hospitals

Uptown Rental Properties LLC and North American Properties are planning to partner again to develop a 202-unit apartment building near the University of Cincinnati.

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/08/17/exclusive-30-million-apartment-development-planned.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 18, 2018, 02:47:17 PM
Due the topography,


Fun fact -- there was a circa 1900~ proposal to bring the College Hill railroad (the one that paralleled Crawford and dead-ended at Spring Grove) into Downtown via Clifton.  There was going to be a bridge across the Mill Creek, then a tunnel under the Gaslight District from the canal south to approximately Richie's Fried Chicken.  The line was then going to travel on the surface to -- you guessed it -- the approximate site of this proposed apartment complex and take advantage of the strange gully as a portal location.  A second tunnel was going to go from Corryville south to downtown and surface onto an EL. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: ColDayMan on August 22, 2018, 11:23:45 AM
Uptown Rentals to bring new life to long-vacant Short Vine buildings

(https://media.bizj.us/view/img/11018646/2624-2632shortvine*700xx3653-2061-0-0.jpg)

Uptown Rental Properties LLC has acquired five long-vacant buildings on Short Vine Street with plans to bring new commercial and residential tenants to the neighborhood.

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/08/22/exclusive-uptown-rentals-to-bring-new-life-to-long.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on August 22, 2018, 11:50:23 AM
^Oh man, all the classics: Sudsy's, To Jupiter and Beyond and the rasta store!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 22, 2018, 12:25:41 PM
When I was in high school we had a teacher for one year who was about 25 who had just graduated from Yale and who lived in the apartments above the Jupiter Game Room. One time he thumbed a ride with my carpool and we dropped him off there, a serious detour from our usual route. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: jwulsin on August 22, 2018, 02:22:13 PM
As much as I dislike how Uptown Rents has near-monopoly status on Corryville, I'm glad to see them realize that the community needs vibrant retail/commercial spaces on Short Vine.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
Post by: GCrites80s on August 22, 2018, 02:37:44 PM
Imagine how much vibrancy there would have been here with all these new residents in the years before Universal Couchlock set in.