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Projects And Transportation => Southwest Ohio Projects & Construction => Topic started by: UncleRando on June 04, 2009, 06:31:19 PM

Title: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: UncleRando on June 04, 2009, 06:31:19 PM
Design students eye Terrace hotel
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090604/BIZ01/906050325/1055/NEWS/Design+students+eye+Terrace+hotel (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090604/BIZ01/906050325/1055/NEWS/Design+students+eye+Terrace+hotel)

Megan Mershman is like many other passersby of downtown's historic Terrace Plaza Hotel.

"I never looked up," said the senior University of Cincinnati interior design student.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: blackmjc on June 04, 2009, 07:37:05 PM
that would make an amazing location for a grocery store
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: oakiehigh on June 04, 2009, 09:13:09 PM
^^Haha, I like that better than the present!   I give a B for creativity and adding a bit of life next to the Caddy Ranch different colored parking garage thingy!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: seicer on June 04, 2009, 09:55:29 PM
It's not bad, and certainly much better than the plain brick wall that currently exists!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: oneglove on June 04, 2009, 10:55:48 PM
that rendering is sexy, and the "colored parking garage thingy" which is actually another art installation would make that one art focused section of town and pretty impressive for lil ol Cincinnati
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: MARK GLOVE! on June 09, 2009, 09:09:15 AM
I just returned from living in Barcelona and the artist Joan Miro is also from there. His mural would look fucking awesome adorned on this site. Its a shame how the terrace has deteriorated over the years. But this is just a wonderful idea!

Gotta love those geniuses down at DAAP. they're brilliant.

Lets make this project happen!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Robert Pence on June 09, 2009, 09:29:16 AM
It closed last October? I'm surprised it stayed open that long.

I went to Cincinnati for a forum meet in May 2006, and booked a room at the Terrace Hotel through Expedia.com. It was a rip-off crap-hole then.

Upon check-in, it was apparent that the hotel had sh!tty floors for discount bookings, and nicer ones for the people who drove the Escalades I saw in the valet area. (They got wine & cheese baskets at check-in.)

The valets kept cars in the curbside spots reserved for loading and unloading by self-parkers in order to try to make people use the valet parking, and the desk clerk tried to tell me that their valet parking was the cheapest parking in the area at $19 per night. I found parking two blocks away in the Cinergy Center garage for $8 per 24 hours.

My room was barely tolerable, not worth the $100 plus tax and surcharges. The upholstery on the armchair was torn, the TV remote was broken, and the coffee maker was broken. In the hall outside, the soft-drink vending machine was broken as was the ice machine. There was some kind of softball tournament going on and several teams were staying in the hotel. They congregated outside the elevators at 2 a.m. for long periods, with lots of loud talk and raucous laughter. Once as I was leaving my room, I saw a couple f**king on the floor in the hallway two doors down.

The hotel was the only negative aspect to that weekend in Cincinnati. I had a good time and met a great group of people. Overall I found Cincinnatians to be friendly and hospitable.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Living in Gin on June 09, 2009, 09:49:39 AM
I'd love to see a movie theater go into the boxy lower portion of the building where windows aren't needed. Given that those floors used to house the hotel ballrooms and meeting facilities, it probably wouldn't take much to put some cinemas and the required support spaces there. It would be a great destination for that part of 6th Street. Retail shops could go into the ground floor, and the upper hotel floors could probably be renovated and used as a fashionable boutique hotel such as a W hotel.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: UncleRando on October 06, 2009, 10:24:50 AM
Lots of really great photos with article link...

The View from the Terrace
http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx (http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx)
By Casey Coston | Soapbox Cincinnati, October 6, 2009

The City of Cincinnati is certainly no slouch when it comes to architecture and signature buildings.
 
Indeed, downtown is literally studded with 'starchitect' buildings from both past and present.  If you were to run down a quick list of some of the more prominent names, you would find Daniel Burnham, notable for the "City Beautiful" movement and 1892 Chicago World Exposition, who designed a cluster of buildings in and around 4th, 5th and Walnut Streets, as well as others from bygone eras including Cass Gilbert, H.H. Richardson and John Russell Pope - all of whom played a key part in crafting the look and feel of downtown's cityscape.

Fast forward to the present and we are fortunate to find new structures such as Zaha Hadid's Contemporary Art Center - famously declared in 2003 by the New York Times' Herbert Muschamp as the "most important new building in America since the end of the Cold War." (DAAP graduate Michael Graves designed the previous location of the CAC on 5th near Walnut.) World reknowned architect Cesar Pelli's fingerprints can also be found across the street from Hadid's CAC at the Aronoff Center for the Performing Arts, built in 1995.

But one of the most important post-war structures in the city often receives little to no fanfare by many casual observers, as it looms silently and somewhat forlornly above downtown. The Terrace Plaza Hotel, located at the Southwest corner of 6th and Vine, is considered by many to be the most important Modernist building in Cincinnati, worthy of national and even international significance. To the average downtown pedestrian, this is the giant seven story blank brick wall which houses Batsakes' millinery and shoeshine and Wendels' clothing and accessories on the ground floor and, well, a giant, vacant window-less monolith up above. 

However, at the time of its inception, the hotel, referred to by some as the "pushbutton palace" for its modern switchboard telephone technology, was groundbreaking both in terms of amenities as well as style. Aaron Betsky, current Director of the Cincinnati Art Museum, and former director of the Netherlands Architecture Institute in Rotterdam, considers the Terrace Hotel one of Cincinnati’s architectural masterpieces.

"[It's] a finely poised example of an era in which we still believed in a future that would not only be more logical and rational, but elegant and sophisticated as well.  Its simple forms, good proportions and restraint still stand in contrast to some of the more elaborate attempts since then to enliven our downtown.  It is like a classic tweed suit in a party of double-knits," he says.

In its heyday, the Terrace Plaza was truly a monumental work of art in downtown Cincinnati.  Constructed by local developer John J. Emery, Jr. between 1946-48, the building was designed by the New York office of famed Modernist firm Skidmore, Owings and Merrill, and noted architect Gordon Bunshaft (designer of New York’s Lever House).  More importantly, however, given Bunshaft’s unavailability due to WWII, the lead designer on the project was Natalie DeBlois, a rare woman in a male-dominated profession, who had a somewhat tangential local connection in that she attended the Western College for Women in Oxford for a year before transferring to Columbia.  Although DeBlois never actually visited Cincinnati during the design and construction, she had a hand in virtually every aspect of the project, including interior design.

And the Terrace's interiors were equally as impressive as its exteriors. In a flourish of visionary, au courant style which should not go unrecognized, Emery commissioned artists Joan Miro, Alexander Calder, Saul Steinberg and Jim Davis to create signature works of art to be used in the interior.  Miro’s stunning mural was painted in a Harlem art studio,and previewed at the Museum of Modern Art before being installed along the southwest wall of the Terrace's circular, cantilevered 20th floor Gourmet Room restaurant.  It is truly stunning to see photos from the 1950s, as diners sit in the Grill Room insouciantly sawing away at their steaks, smoking cigarettes and swilling martinis while the Miro masterpiece sits literally inches from the backs of their banquette, ready to catch a wayward flick of meat from a fork or splash of gin from a glass.  Calder's mobile soared in the main lobby, Steinberg's view of Cincinnati covered the South wall of the 8th floor Skyline Room restaurant while Davis’ Plexiglas light sculpture presided over the Terrace Bar on the same floor.

Fortunately for all, most of the prized artwork, removed in 1965, currently resides at the Cincinnati Art Museum, where the Miro mural and Calder mobile are prominently displayed outside the Museum’s own Terrace Cafe.  The 90 foot long Steinberg mural, "A New Yorker’s View of Cincinnati," while not currently on display (and one of only two remaining Steinberg murals), was the subject of an exhibit at the Museum in 2007-08.  The whereabouts of Davis' piece are, sadly, unknown.

Five or so years ago, a glitzy condo/boutique hotel conversion project dubbed "Next" was proposed for the building.  Fast forward a year or so, as "Next" went "Nowhere," and in 2005 the building was sold to a pair of New York investors for $26 million while it continued to operate as a hotel.  The hotel quietly and abruptly shut down in October of last year and has been dormant ever since.

Last Spring, DAAP students used the Terrace Plaza as the subject of their Studio project.  The show was an entertaining eye opener, with the lower seven floors of the building being used for varied combinations of fitness facilities, nightclubs, bowling alleys and even movie theaters.  Even more stunning were how the huge brick exterior walls were transformed into living pieces of art and media, with images such as the Miro mural being projected onto both sides of the building, as well as news and ticker tapes.  Truly visionary and vibrant stuff.  Of all the possible hotel projects floating around town, the Terrace Plaza, with the right backers and vision, is unique like no other, and could further cement Cincinnati’s reputation as a city of world class architecture.

Since its closure, the owners have been actively marketing the property locally through Joe Janszen and Nick Barela at Colliers Turley Martin Tucker.  Although the Grill Room on top has not been open since 1992, the balance of the hotel has been fairly well maintained.  There are 350 hotel rooms and approximately 270,000 square feet of office space available.  For my money, a boutique hotel a la the "W," a Morgans Group Hotel or, ideally, Louisville’s stunning 21c would be ideal in this space, perhaps offsetting some of the hotel space with condo or apartment conversion.  It's amazing to consider the unlimited potential in the event if the structure was brought back to its place at the apogee of post-war modernism, replete with reproductions of the original artwork.  In New York or LA it would be the absolute hottest spot in town, and, as supporters like Betsky have argued for several years, "Cincinnati could certainly use such a facility."

Alas, Cincinnati is not exactly New York or LA, and many experts think the price points necessary to bring in a W or similar boutique-style hotel would not fly in the current economic market.  Moreover 21c’s name has recently been tossed around in connection with the just-announced 3CDC acquisition of the single room occupancy Metropole residential hotel on Walnut - a great location, admittedly, but the Terrace has so much more potential. Add to that a market where occupancy rates for hotels in the tri-state have declined by approximately 9.6% for the first nine months of 2009 to 51.6% and the challenge is particularly daunting.

But the Terrace Plaza is a soaring, rose brick symbol of mid-century design in downtown Cincinnati.  From the vertical slab atop a horizontal terrace base, to the cylinder of glass and steel cantilevered out on top, to the custom designed Thonet furniture, Abe Feder lighting, monogrammed Rookwood ashtrays, Marianne Strengell textiles, marble veneers and even the lettering font on the rest rooms of the Grill Room (one of the last vestiges of the original structure after an atrocious 80’s style makeover), the structure is an icon of an era.

You could even bring back Natalie DeBlois for the re-christening.  She’s 88 and still active, swimming daily in Lake Michigan (weather permitting of course).  She visited here for the first time ever last November and, unfortunately, the hotel had recently closed - although they were able to give her a tour.

Let’s bring her back for the Grand Re-Opening.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: metrocity on October 06, 2009, 11:20:21 AM
Very interesting, significant modern building for Cincy!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Living in Gin on October 06, 2009, 01:21:53 PM
Great article. The Terrace Plaza is an underrated gem that needs to be preserved and restored. I'd love to see something like a W hotel go into that space, maybe along with an independent movie theater in the lower floors. In terms of high-quality architecture and proximity to nightlife, it would be right up W's alley.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Jeffery on October 07, 2009, 05:40:03 PM
I knew about the Terrace Plaza years before I moved to Ohio.

It was published in an architectural monograph or collection on early modern architecture, in 1955 or so.  Not sure if it was only hotels or if it had other building types.  The book was published in Switerland or Germany, and was bilingual so I could read some of the text.

The Terrace Plaza had a nice spread, with beautiful glossy Ezra Stoller-style B&W photos. For all I know they could very well have been by Stoller.  The exterior was featured , as was the interior, inculding the Miro in the Gourmet Room.

From what I recall I think the text emphasised the mixed use aspect of the building, and said there was a department store in that lower blocky part. 

Another thing I noted was the early date. Mid-late 1940s.  Which means this was one of the very first large truely modern buildings in the US.  The 1946 date mentioned upthread would have made it contemporary with Mies Van Der Rohe's Chicago apatment buildings, perhaps a bit earlier.  It would predated the Lever House.  It might have been SOMs first modern skyscraper.

I can see a good case for landmarking this tower.


Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: metrocity on October 07, 2009, 07:07:04 PM
Everything and more you would ever want to know about the Terrace Plaza Hotel (mostly the art work)...12 page history from the SOM website historical section:

http://www.som.com/content.cfm/art_soul_of_the_corporation (http://www.som.com/content.cfm/art_soul_of_the_corporation)

A few excerpts including a mention of a Cincinnati company (Formica). Did you know...

"rooftop terrace garden adjoining the lobby and an outdoor dining space that could be converted to a skating rink in winter"

"The use of materials developed during World War II like Formica and other plastic laminates; the custom-designed textiles and the variegated color schemes in the individual hotel rooms correlated with different sun exposures; the built-in air conditioning and lighting fixtures; the motor-controlled couch-beds and the retractable metal wall partitions that could alter the size of suites; and the fully automated elevators and advanced mechanical systems regulated on a large central console all contributed to the sense that Terrace Plaza was the last word in modernity and planning, and that its owner had spared no expense on behalf of the public’s comfort and enjoyment."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: bquigley on February 05, 2010, 05:42:05 AM
N.Y. investors buy Cincinnati's Terrace Plaza
Historic hotel site could get major facelift
By Dan Monk | February 5, 2010


A New York real estate investor has purchased the mostly vacant Terrace Plaza complex on Sixth Street downtown and is exploring several uses for the hotel, office and retail property.

“There are a couple of different ways we may go,” said Tommy Demetriades, vice president for the new owner, Floral Park, N.Y.-based World Properties Inc. “The location is fantastic,”

Possibilities include replacing the building’s massive brick facade with an all-glass exterior, recruiting a department store and opening a fine-dining restaurant evoking the old five-star Gourmet Room on the 20th floor. Demetriades said Wyndham Hotels and Resorts has looked at branding the property’s 321 rooms. So has InterContinental Hotels Group, which owns the Crowne Plaza brand, which also ran a hotel at the site.

“We want to be quick about making a decision, but we want to make the right decision,” he said. “The carrying charges are huge, so we can’t take forever. Within three months, we should definitely have decided what we’ll do with the property.”

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/02/08/story1.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: CincyIntheKnow on February 05, 2010, 07:32:52 AM
Awesome.  This has needed to happen for some time.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: blackmjc on February 05, 2010, 07:50:01 AM
The exterior renovation is a must. The brick wall is terrible curb appeal and if they replace it with glass, it should really transform that corner. Exciting news and hopefully they maximize the potential here
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: blackmjc on February 05, 2010, 07:50:27 AM
Also, if they do a dept store here, then there is a corridor forming of shopping, especially with the hopeful renovation of tower place.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thomasbw on February 05, 2010, 07:55:55 AM
movie theatre
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ColDayMan on February 05, 2010, 08:14:59 AM
BOWLING ALLEY!!!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: seicer on February 05, 2010, 08:19:39 AM
I've merged this with another existing Terrace Plaza thread that was under Architecture, Environmental, and Preservation.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: UncleRando on February 05, 2010, 09:15:42 AM
After reading the article I'm fearful that these investors might just be coming in and proposing this ideas to raise the value of the property so that they can sell it in the short term for a gain.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thomasbw on February 05, 2010, 10:25:43 AM
BOWLING ALLEY!!!

one is going in at Newport on the Levee [which granted also has a movie theater, but I could imagine that the core could support two theaters but not two bowling alleys].

Also, doesn't the Phoenix have a bowling alley in the basement?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: j3shafer on February 05, 2010, 11:11:41 AM
This is will be an interesting situation to keep an eye on. I hope it does turn out to be legit. It would be a big boon for DT. A department store is interesting but I'm not sure what niche would fit. With Sak's and Macy's already downtown I am unsure whether or not another high-end retailer is really in demand. TJ Maxx in the Tower Place is useful for bargain hunters but there is really nothing covering the middle ground. Could be a perfect place for something along the lines of a Target or Kohl's if not a full blown grocery. Obviously there is plenty of space there that there could multiple options. There seems to be an abundance of hotel proposals floating out there. I can't help but wonder if the casino and/or streetcar has anything to do with it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ColDayMan on February 05, 2010, 11:16:07 AM
BOWLING ALLEY!!!

one is going in at Newport on the Levee [which granted also has a movie theater, but I could imagine that the core could support two theaters but not two bowling alleys].

Also, doesn't the Phoenix have a bowling alley in the basement?

YOU SUPPORT NEWPORT!  TRAITOR!!! :D
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: bigredmachine on February 05, 2010, 03:43:14 PM
APPLE STORE!!!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Seth on February 05, 2010, 06:40:53 PM
This building has such a great heritage that it could garner a very nice place whatever it is.

Is it just me or is there one too many towers in the background in this rendering?
(http://assets.bizjournals.com/story_image/692101-300-0-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: CincyImages on February 05, 2010, 07:08:40 PM
The exterior renovation is a must. The brick wall is terrible curb appeal and if they replace it with glass, it should really transform that corner. Exciting news and hopefully they maximize the potential here

I couldn't agree more!  I would love to see a bowling alley, movie theatre and grocery store complex at this corner.  Chicago has a similar thing at 322 East Illinois Street.


BOWLING ALLEY!!!

one is going in at Newport on the Levee [which granted also has a movie theater, but I could imagine that the core could support two theaters but not two bowling alleys].

Also, doesn't the Phoenix have a bowling alley in the basement?

I only cross the river for Hofbrauhaus and for Kentucky's best asset, "The view of Cincinnati".
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on February 05, 2010, 08:30:49 PM
Quote
Is it just me or is there one too many towers in the background in this rendering?

It does look odd, but one is the top of the hotel and one is the 525 Vine Office Building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ink on February 05, 2010, 09:11:31 PM
Altering the stark brick wall would severly disrepect the historical moderist design. While I agree it is not a good design, I think maintaining the feature is critical to preserving the intergrity of the entire structure.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: j3shafer on February 06, 2010, 08:26:12 AM
Altering the stark brick wall would severly disrepect the historical moderist design. While I agree it is not a good design, I think maintaining the feature is critical to preserving the intergrity of the entire structure.

I'm usually not a fan of the modernist look but I also would like to see the current facade, more or less, remain. Glass has become so standard in today's building world. I wouldn't mind them touching it up to make it a little more street-friendly/interactive but I would really like to the see the brick, especially in the tower part, remain. Whatever they do, it will be nice to just see it in use and vibrant.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: blackmjc on February 06, 2010, 11:43:31 AM
Altering the stark brick wall would severly disrepect the historical moderist design. While I agree it is not a good design, I think maintaining the feature is critical to preserving the intergrity of the entire structure.

More often than not, it's appropriate to respect the historical design of a building, but i don't see this as one of those times.  It's a brick facade that doesn't even have any windows.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: bigredmachine on February 06, 2010, 12:55:04 PM
Altering the stark brick wall would severly disrepect the historical moderist design. While I agree it is not a good design, I think maintaining the feature is critical to preserving the intergrity of the entire structure.

More often than not, it's appropriate to respect the historical design of a building, but i don't see this as one of those times.  It's a brick facade that doesn't even have any windows.

I have to agree..but I can't help but think that maybe this is the conversation they had when they took out the mural in the Gourmet Room and added that horrendous wood paneling and chandelier. In 50-100 years we may regret altering the "ugly brick wall". Just food for thought.
By the way, here is a link to a slide show that the Cincinnati Preservation Association has on the hotel..gives some history and has some really sharp photos. I love the photo of the entrance.
http://www.cincinnatipreservation.org/files/uploaded/Terrace_Plaza_Cincinnati.pdf (http://www.cincinnatipreservation.org/files/uploaded/Terrace_Plaza_Cincinnati.pdf)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ink on February 06, 2010, 03:00:23 PM
The original design (if you look at the initial image in the CPA link) had two-story windows at ground level. The second story was bricked over in 1965. Restoring these would not only help the "ugly" argument, but would also be even more respective to the historic significance of the building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Living in Gin on February 06, 2010, 03:55:01 PM
^ Agreed. I'd rather see the building properly restored than have windows punched into that brick wall. If something like a movie theater goes into the pedestal floors, then there'd be no reason for windows anyway.

The original hotel decor would be a perfect fit for the W hotel chain.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Seth on February 06, 2010, 04:51:32 PM
If a W ends up there, I don't care what they do with the bland brick wall.  It might be 'modern' but that doesn't make it unoffensive to the senses.  A sheer glass wall could be uber-chic.

W or bust!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: CincyImages on February 06, 2010, 08:49:24 PM
Altering the stark brick wall would severly disrepect the historical moderist design. While I agree it is not a good design, I think maintaining the feature is critical to preserving the intergrity of the entire structure.

More often than not, it's appropriate to respect the historical design of a building, but i don't see this as one of those times.  It's a brick facade that doesn't even have any windows.

I agree, the building is hideous regardless of its historical value.  I would rather see efforts by the preservation society to fight to keep OTR homes from being bulldozed than any energy made to preserve the brick facade of this building.  Re-cladding it in glass coupled with tacky corporate signage like seen in Columbus would work well in this corner.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: rontun on February 07, 2010, 01:52:56 AM
Personally, I'd prefer seeing the base of the Terrace adapted for use as a casino rather than consuming the enormous Broadway Commons site for such usage.

The windowless feature fits perfectly with casino design, and the 45,000 s.f. footprint would allow for a grand, multi-level casino facility that could incorporate retail into the remainder of the base.

Adequate parking could be accommodated by a multi-story garage on the surface parking lot running between Fifth & Sixth Streets on the west side of Race, atop which could be constructed apartment/condo and/or hotel towers.

What troubles me about the Broadway Commons casino proposal is that it is cheesy, resembling some of the casinos operated by Indian tribes in the midwest.  If Cincinnati is going to allow casino gambling, it should opt for a first-class facility that will truly be an overnight destination location.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: JYP on December 14, 2011, 10:26:16 AM
Still would be a great site for a vintage inspired hotel!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: RockyMountainHigh on December 14, 2011, 12:18:19 PM
With the new Marriott at Lytle Park, the new 21c on Walnut and plans for new hotels at St. Xavier Park and The Banks - not to mention the casino's option to build an on-site hotel after a few years, it's hard to imagine what would be another huge hotel at the Terrace Plaza. Is the possibility of residential redevelopment completely off the table? I think that may be it's best option, with street-level retail and maybe even a few floors of offices.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Blue Line on December 14, 2011, 12:29:03 PM
Maybe HP can be cajoled into expanding their employment base here in Cincy. What base they do have works under a parking garage with no windows for its employees. The Terrace Hotel bldg would be perfect!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: RockyMountainHigh on December 14, 2011, 03:10:11 PM
I don't know much about the building, but adding windows for a potential office tenant doesn't seem like it would be the most difficult thing in the world.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Living in Gin on December 14, 2011, 03:17:14 PM
Personally, I'd like to see a theater in the lower portion that plays independent and foreign films (no need for windows, and given that those floor were once used as conference spaces, there shouldn't be a need to vastly upgrade emergency egress capacity). The upper portion would be ideal as a W-style boutique hotel. Both uses would also be a good fit for the 6th Street entertainment district.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Neville on December 14, 2011, 03:52:53 PM
And ArtsWave should get involved somehow and dress up the exterior of the windowless behemoth with murals/tiles/yarn/lights/anything.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thomasbw on December 15, 2011, 08:42:20 AM
And ArtsWave should get involved somehow and dress up the exterior of the windowless behemoth with murals/tiles/yarn/lights/anything.

That's a lot of yarn.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on December 15, 2011, 09:14:26 AM
Artswave stuff on this building would be hideous.  I know it's a giant solid brick wall, but it is a historic building and should be treated with some respect.  The movie theater idea is a good one, and there are any number of potential tech uses, as well, such as a data center.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: OCtoCincy on December 25, 2011, 04:56:32 PM
Cole+Russell (now CR Architecture) had done a mock up of how to redo the building as part of a ~2004 renovation plan. 

Mostly it involved replacing large swaths of the solid brick base (originally two department stores that didn't want windows) with glass.

http://ascribehq.com/cr-architecture-design/portfolio/4499 (http://ascribehq.com/cr-architecture-design/portfolio/4499)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: metrocity on December 30, 2011, 06:42:53 PM
Quote
The original design (if you look at the initial image in the CPA link) had two-story windows at ground level. The second story was bricked over in 1965. Restoring these would not only help the "ugly" argument, but would also be even more respective to the historic significance of the building.

I agree, the second row of windows really lightens the street presence, huge mistake covering them.  I think this hotel is a modern gem.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on January 05, 2012, 12:29:35 PM
Note their stock photo of the building is from the 60s or 70s! 

Tenants making moves in former Terrace Plaza hotel space
Business Courier by Tom Demeropolis, Staff Reporter
Date: Thursday, January 5, 2012, 1:30pm EST



Some new leasing activity is taking place in the ground floor of downtown Cincinnati’s former Terrace Plaza hotel, which closed in 2008.

Batsakes Hat Shop, the Cincinnati landmark at the corner of Sixth and Vine streets, is expanding into the space formerly occupied by Cashland. Gus Miller, owner of Batsakes, said he doesn’t plan to slow down anytime soon.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/01/05/tenants-making-moves-in-former-terrace.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/01/05/tenants-making-moves-in-former-terrace.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ink on January 05, 2012, 07:45:01 PM
It was/is beautiful:

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/kaelinnb/terraceplaza_historic.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: natininja on January 05, 2012, 10:17:29 PM
^ Except for the blank walls, no windows part?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Blue Line on January 05, 2012, 10:51:55 PM
^^I absolutely don't agree. Just because something is depicted in a vintage photo doesn't mean it's beautiful. It has hideous frontage.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: subocincy on January 06, 2012, 04:10:31 AM
^^^ Yeah, a reeaally great design that Bond building! (What was it really supposed to be, anyway?  A Lindner mausoleum or a Hitler bunker?)    :-D
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on January 06, 2012, 11:43:57 AM
It’s beautiful in how it represents its era.  Some architects of the time believed the best interior conditions for offices like this were completely isolated from the noise, dirt, and pollution of the outside world.  The terrace plaza is a direct result of that concept.  Even so, it manages to keep a street presence with the 2 floor (originally) storefront, and the sky lobby hotel is interesting as well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Cygnus on April 23, 2012, 12:43:28 PM
Just got this message from the city:

“Sixth Street between Vine and Race is closed and will remain closed until 9pm tonight. The reason for the closure is due to the heavy winds, which are causing debris to fall from upper levels of the Terrace Building. Please consider alternate routes for your evening commute.”

Yet to find any coverage of it on local news sites.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: RockyMountainHigh on April 23, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
Just got this message from the city:

“Sixth Street between Vine and Race is closed and will remain closed until 9pm tonight. The reason for the closure is due to the heavy winds, which are causing debris to fall from upper levels of the Terrace Building. Please consider alternate routes for your evening commute.”

Yet to find any coverage of it on local news sites.

I got excited for a minute when clicking on this thread, thinking something positive was brewing. Sadly, this is anything but.  :-(
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: oakiehigh on April 23, 2012, 09:20:13 PM
Sixth Street Closed After Wind Blows Out Building Windows

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Sixth-Street-Closed-After-Wind-Blows-Out-Building/u-YBlln6l0Cj248EYpfxPg.cspx (http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Sixth-Street-Closed-After-Wind-Blows-Out-Building/u-YBlln6l0Cj248EYpfxPg.cspx)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: mcadrenaline on June 04, 2012, 01:09:23 PM
At what point can the city step in with this property and force the owner to at least maintain the building? ...it's literally rotting and is quickly becoming an eyesore. It's truly going to be an embarassment for the World Choir Games due to its prominent location. Nearly half of the storefronts are vacant, the flashing is falling off the building, windows boarded up, overgrown shurbbery on the terraces, the terrible vinyl awning with the Crowne Plaza logo so skillfully duct-taped over....I could go on and on. I have to imagine that at this point the roof leaks, ventialtion systems are shot and the rooms are mold and mildew infested. It just makes me sad. This piece of property is as important at the Banks or 5th/Race IMO.

In this article from February 2010, one of the owners said “We want to be quick about making a decision, but we want to make the right decision,” he said. “The carrying charges are huge, so we can’t take forever. Within three months, we should definitely have decided what we’ll do with the property.” Here we are two years later with absolutely no progress whatsoever. What gives? Very disappointing.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/02/08/story1.html?page=all (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/02/08/story1.html?page=all)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: mcadrenaline on June 04, 2012, 01:27:54 PM
Also, found an article from last year that for some reason never was posted here. The last quarter or so reveals lots of details about the recent history of the property. Basically it sounds like it's sitting in the hands of a slumlord who bit off more than he could chew (he also bought Cincinnati Mall around the same time as this, so that probably speaks to his business saavy of lack thereof)

http://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/cincinnatihistory/Story.aspx?id=1378904 (http://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/cincinnatihistory/Story.aspx?id=1378904)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jdm00 on June 04, 2012, 03:18:18 PM
That's sad.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: metrocity on June 04, 2012, 03:34:36 PM
^^ That's a great story, thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: RockyMountainHigh on July 24, 2012, 05:37:46 PM
In the August issue of Cincinnati Magazine that arrived at my house today, there's a story about the "10 Buildings that Changed Cincinnati." While the Terrace Plaza Hotel wasn't one of the 10 buildings they spotlighted, they did have a sidebar titled "Will someone please draft a future for the Terrace Plaza?"

In it was the following:

The current owner, New York-based real estate investment group World Properties LLC, bought it in 2010 with the intent of re-opening the hotel. Unfortunately, Vice President Tommy Demetriades says plans are "sort of on hold at this point."

Whatever that means.

The story, incidentally, is outstanding. ... Worth picking up a copy.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: LesterLyles on July 25, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
What do you think would be a good use for the windowless section of that building?  Something touristy would be ideal.  Children's museum?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Gordon Bombay on July 25, 2012, 08:17:53 AM
^I doubt you'd see the Children's Museum move from Union Terminal. Although a nice tourist attraction right in the heart of downtown like that could be cool.

Contract some artist to put some cool murals up on the windowless section.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on July 25, 2012, 08:27:04 AM
The windowless portion should be something like a data center. It sounds like a lame idea, but there are a few data centers downtown that I know of that take up office space that has windows, yet they just cage them off and tint over them. 

The second floor was originally glass curtain wall like the first floor, though, and I think restoring that would be a nice touch.  I think the solid brick is a historically significant part of the building and I'd hate to lose it, even though it's hard to program a use for such a windowless space. 

On a side note, I've gotten a couple emails from developers over the past month or so asking if I had plans for this building (my blog has an old post about it).  Not sure if that means there is interest outside of the current owner or not, but they were at least asking.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Neville on July 25, 2012, 08:32:11 AM
or they could re-install the windows.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Living in Gin on July 25, 2012, 09:30:09 AM
Personally, I'd like to see a decent movie theater go into the windowless portion (ideally something that runs independent and foreign movies, rather than the same Hollywood crap people can see at the Levee). This works for several reasons:

1) Movie theaters can't have windows.

2) Those floors of the hotel formerly housed meeting spaces and ballrooms, which have similar occupant loads as movie theaters. As such, the sizing of things like fire exits and emergency stairs would presumably be less of an issue than if you were trying to put theaters into some other building.

3) It would be the perfect addition to the budding entertainment / nightlife district along 6th Street, in addition to being a stone's throw from Fountain Square.

As for the upper floors, they'd be ideal for a boutique hotel with a strong modernist design aesthetic, such as the W hotel chain.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Gordon Bombay on July 25, 2012, 09:51:49 AM
^I like the idea of a Movie Theatre especially if it's showing something different than what the typical theatres have. Newport's AMC is actually very nice and the most convenient place for me to see a flick, but if we had somewhat more of an art house theatre maybe Cincinnati could be one of those "select cities" that gets films I always want to see but are never here.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ColDayMan on July 25, 2012, 09:54:25 AM
Something like this...
http://angelikafilmcenter.com/angelika_index.asp?hID=7915 (http://angelikafilmcenter.com/angelika_index.asp?hID=7915)

...would work very well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on July 25, 2012, 10:07:28 AM
The Esquire fills the independent void in Cincinnati pretty well, I wonder how another, larger theater would do?

And just to note again, there were never windows over the lower half of the building, only the second floor was covered over.  The lower half originally housed two department stores, which also work well without windows, but I'm afraid the ship has sailed on the downtown department store model.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on July 25, 2012, 11:13:52 AM
Nearly all of those artsy films on that website are playing at the Esquire as we speak.

The likelyhood of a movie theater there is almost 0.  We're adding a second major multiplex in Oakley & there are three  independent theaters already (Esquire, Mariemont & Kenwood) that play great movies.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: LesterLyles on July 25, 2012, 12:12:07 PM
yeah, I thought it would be a challenge to move the children's museum from Union terminal but I think as part of a hotel complex, it could be a really attractive venue/destination,especially in the heart of downtown.   I stilll think the urban core could use additional toursit attractions and something that is kid friendly that would attract families would be grea.  I always thought Cincy's children museum was just ok so maybe a change of venue could be a positive?   I like the movie theatre idea but would it bring folks downtown? Probably only if it is something unique
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on July 25, 2012, 12:16:18 PM
Children's Museum was just renovated a few years ago and CMC just absorbed Freedom Center & are trying to raise money to renovate Union Termjnal.
Unless someone is going to donate $1,000,000 ONLY if it moves to that location, it also has no chance of happening.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: neilworms on July 25, 2012, 02:11:00 PM
Quote
The likelyhood of a movie theater there is almost 0.  We're adding a second major multiplex in Oakley & there are three  independent theaters already (Esquire, Mariemont & Kenwood) that play great movies.

Their all run by the same guy and in the grand scheme of things aren't that good an indie theaters, Cincy doesn't get a lot of movies or gets them like 6-9 months after big cities play them unless they are more hollywood friendly indie movies.   There is a nice niche to see a better run arthouse theater that does more retrospectives and what not.   Sadly the economics of this business are already kind of tough so might be a tough start but Cincy does need a better arthouse.   On top of that there are film clubs that fill the void of the more esoteric indie movies...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: taestell on July 31, 2012, 12:55:37 PM
The windowless portion should be something like a data center. It sounds like a lame idea, but there are a few data centers downtown that I know of that take up office space that has windows, yet they just cage them off and tint over them. 

The second floor was originally glass curtain wall like the first floor, though, and I think restoring that would be a nice touch.  I think the solid brick is a historically significant part of the building and I'd hate to lose it, even though it's hard to program a use for such a windowless space. 

Reminds me of the hideous 10 South Canal (http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Building/1128/10-South-Canal.php) building in Chicago. The bottom 20 floors or so are solid concrete walls, as it serves as an AT&T data center.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on July 31, 2012, 01:21:51 PM
The windowless portion should be something like a data center. It sounds like a lame idea, but there are a few data centers downtown that I know of that take up office space that has windows, yet they just cage them off and tint over them. 

The second floor was originally glass curtain wall like the first floor, though, and I think restoring that would be a nice touch.  I think the solid brick is a historically significant part of the building and I'd hate to lose it, even though it's hard to program a use for such a windowless space. 

Reminds me of the hideous 10 South Canal (http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Building/1128/10-South-Canal.php) building in Chicago. The bottom 20 floors or so are solid concrete walls, as it serves as an AT&T data center.

This (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5RUxGOm2TQY/T1aNSU8oHuI/AAAAAAAABJM/UWZzuNVEZU8/s1600/Terrace+Plaza+vert-2.jpg) has way more class than the Chicago version.  Plus, even the name "Terrace Plaza" is dependent upon the idea that the hotel sits atop a bulky mass.

NYC's data center building is also way classier than the Chicago verison: See 375 Pearl St (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/375_Pearl_Street). It's beautiful if judged from a "form follows function" perspective.  The building in Chicago looks like it was turned into a data center as an after thought - it looks like a typical office tower with solid walls where windows should be.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Living in Gin on July 31, 2012, 01:24:38 PM
It's not as bad as this gem in Lower Manhattan.

(http://urbanscrawl.net/images/blogpics/nybuilding1.jpg)

(This is the AT&T Long Lines building, where many transatlantic telephone cables terminate. I have no idea how relevant this building remains, with the advent of satellite-based telecommunications. Just to give you a sense of scale, this is about the same height as the 5/3 Bank building on Fountain Square.)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: OTR on July 31, 2012, 05:45:04 PM
The Terrace Plaza has a ton of potential as a mixed use development - commercial, hotel, condos, apartments, restaurants, galleries --- hotel would only be possible at the exclusion of the residential options - unless windows could be added to the 7 (I think) story block.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: taestell on August 21, 2012, 09:36:40 AM
(This is the AT&T Long Lines building, where many transatlantic telephone cables terminate. I have no idea how relevant this building remains, with the advent of satellite-based telecommunications. Just to give you a sense of scale, this is about the same height as the 5/3 Bank building on Fountain Square.)

Quick tangent: virtually all data transmitted between continents is sent via submerged fiber optic cables, as satellites would have too much latency. So I assume buildings like this will remain necessary. It would be fascinating to see inside, though, and see how much of the traditional telephone switching infrastructure has been replaced with racks of switches and routers for Internet traffic.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Living in Gin on August 21, 2012, 09:57:29 AM
^ Yeah, I'd love to get a tour of that place, although I'm sure it's locked down tighter than Fort Knox security-wise.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Dizzy on August 21, 2012, 12:34:22 PM
^ Yeah, I'd love to get a tour of that place, although I'm sure it's locked down tighter than Fort Knox security-wise.
Unless you work for the NSA! 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Caseyc on December 12, 2012, 12:15:07 PM
I have not seen it reported, but CarterDawson has bought the Terrace Plaza. CR are the architects. Lower floors will be a parking structure and residential above. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: natininja on December 12, 2012, 12:23:41 PM
I have not seen it reported, but CarterDawson has bought the Terrace Plaza. CR are the architects. Lower floors will be a parking structure and residential above. 

Does that mean demoing the windowless juggernaut?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Caseyc on December 12, 2012, 12:34:29 PM
I have not seen it reported, but CarterDawson has bought the Terrace Plaza. CR are the architects. Lower floors will be a parking structure and residential above. 

Does that mean demoing the windowless juggernaut?

Presumably they will carve the garage out of the base.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: mcadrenaline on December 12, 2012, 12:37:00 PM
mehh, I'll take what I can get at this point. Seeing as how CarterDawson is behind the Banks I'm not expecting anything fabulous but it's still a win considering there is a huge need for residential downtown this building is literally crumbling as we speak and needs immiedete attention.

I'm assuming these will be apartments?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ink on December 12, 2012, 03:34:27 PM
This could be scary. A modernist landmark lost.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: j3shafer on December 12, 2012, 04:24:05 PM
I have not seen it reported, but CarterDawson has bought the Terrace Plaza. CR are the architects. Lower floors will be a parking structure and residential above. 

I hope they bury the parking behind some liner shops or something.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: natininja on December 12, 2012, 04:51:45 PM
This could be scary. A modernist landmark lost.

I'm all for historic preservation, but I wouldn't mind letting this one go. Or letting it go through some thorough alterations, e.g. WINDOWS!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on December 12, 2012, 07:48:03 PM
This could be scary. A modernist landmark lost.

I'm all for historic preservation, but I wouldn't mind letting this one go. Or letting it go through some thorough alterations, e.g. WINDOWS!

Agreed, just cause it was designed by SOM doesn't mean it's anything special.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on December 12, 2012, 07:57:55 PM
Also, CR has some concept renders of the building that they did some time ago. Now the quality of the renders is pretty bad, but it in no way an excuse for how disjointed and ugly it looks. I believe these were also for a hotel concept, and it sounds like this might turn residential. Personally I would like to see the bottom part made of completely brick and turned into a parking garage, bottom floor being retail and a lobby. And the rest being the terrace, a remodeled residential part, and one hella dope penthouse, or maybe a public restaurant, either would be fine and a roof top restaurant would be interesting to say the least.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: OTR on December 12, 2012, 08:31:33 PM
I just hope they bring back the rooftop bar.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: BlackBengal on December 12, 2012, 09:17:50 PM
My dream for this building is for the lower, windowless part to be gutted and turned into a movie theatre and the top portion to be residential or hotel with a rooftop bar.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: natininja on December 12, 2012, 10:13:08 PM
^ Sounds like your dream is rapidly fading.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on December 13, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
This could be scary. A modernist landmark lost.

I'm all for historic preservation, but I wouldn't mind letting this one go. Or letting it go through some thorough alterations, e.g. WINDOWS!

Agreed, just cause it was designed by SOM doesn't mean it's anything special.

What makes this building special is that it was designed and built as one of the first modernist post-WWII buildings in the world, and there aren’t a whole lot of examples left of this type of building.  In fact, it’s very indicative of the 1950’s urban life in general – with the department store base, and clean, chic hotel atop with just enough funkiness via the lounge on the rooftop.  Altering too much of this building would ruin the historic value, especially when the only case for it is that it “looks ugly.”  To put it into perspective, people in the 1950’s thought the 1880’s buildings all over downtown and OTR were ugly and tore them down en masse.  Give it another 50 years and people will be shaking their heads at those who wanted to rip the Terrace Plaza apart.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on December 13, 2012, 09:57:34 AM
The problem is that they would probably not being trying to restore the building but modernizing it in some way, which we here all know often ends up looking pretty bad. BUT! They could do something nice, it is very possible, not sure tho after seeing the CR portfolio. But have you seen the progress on the apt. towers on UC's campus? I think they're going to look fantastic, however in this case the entire facade is being completely replaced. Regardless tho no one should tear that thing down, either do a resto or go full throttle modern and keep it very clean.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Rabbit Hash on December 13, 2012, 10:28:36 AM
Agreed.  the UC towers will look fantastic when complete.  No indication of how hideous they previously were.

What exactly is contained in the windowless portion?  Guest rooms?  Open floors?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on December 13, 2012, 11:38:33 AM
^ The first six stories contained two department stores, which is why they have no windows.

The second floor was originally glass on half of the building:

(http://www.libraries.uc.edu/liblog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/TP.jpg)

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Caseyc on December 13, 2012, 12:58:02 PM
An article I did in '09 Unfortunately the photos were all lost in an archive changeover). http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx (http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx)

The windowless portion last saw use as an IBM processing center. I have been in the rooms and they're just huge and lifeless.

The hotel itself could be pretty awesome. The 8th floor lobby has a decent-sized terrace facing east along Vine, and they used to do ice skating up there in the winter. The Grill Room on top is pretty cozy but undeniably cool. Unfortunately it suffered from a bit of an 80's makeover, but that can be easily addressed.

A local architect told me that Carter likes using CR as they are relatively less expensive and will do what they ask.

Then again, the building does not need a wholesale makeover. More of a retrofit.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on December 13, 2012, 02:43:05 PM
Here is a great collection of historical photos and plans, if anyone is interested:

http://www.cf3.org/Terrace-Plaza-Cincinnati/Terrace-Plaza-Cincinnati.html (http://www.cf3.org/Terrace-Plaza-Cincinnati/Terrace-Plaza-Cincinnati.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: old edale on December 13, 2012, 03:51:19 PM
It's pretty incredible that this hotel had a Miro mural in the restaurant, and a Calder mobile in the lobby.  Art of that caliber really speaks to the ambitions of the project when it was constructed
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: wholtone on December 13, 2012, 08:49:43 PM
Perhaps it's just me, but I hate this building. It's so ugly. So drab. Bricks. So many bricks. The hotel portion? No one can see it from the street, so it doesn't really matter if it's there or not. All you see are bricks. You'll never be walking around this building and see some visitors or suburbanites point to it and say, "Isn't that a great building?" No, the only love this building gets is from urban wonks, for good reason.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: j3shafer on December 13, 2012, 09:06:50 PM
The tower doesn't bother me as much as the bottom does but I must admit I am torn. Ram23 makes a very good point. The building really is a pretty bold icon of an era gone by. It looks the kind of place a guy like Don Draper would have stayed in.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on December 14, 2012, 12:58:17 PM
Honestly I'm not too impressed by the historic photos.  Preserving a Modernist building means preserving...no intricate woodwork, no statuary, no nothing.  The Ikea furniture was probably thrown out in the mid-60s.  The Calder mobile is typical of the period and the Miro painting is up at the art museum and it ain't coming back. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: KyleCincy on December 14, 2012, 01:54:35 PM
I just hope they bring back the rooftop bar.

Yes, and of course someone renovates and reopens the hotel (and makes money so it stays open)

21 C hotel has a rooftop bar area, not open yet be should be soon. Isn't Modernist stuff back in style now?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on December 14, 2012, 04:35:07 PM
Honestly I'm not too impressed by the historic photos.  Preserving a Modernist building means preserving...no intricate woodwork, no statuary, no nothing.  The Ikea furniture was probably thrown out in the mid-60s.  The Calder mobile is typical of the period and the Miro painting is up at the art museum and it ain't coming back.

The only real captivating part was the atrium on the roof, but I think I read here that that it has been modified from it original version. I think that the atrium would be about the only thinkg worth trying to return to original, but without the Miro painting whats the point? (Or was Miro in the lobby??). It's also a bummer that half of the once 360 view is now blocked.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: j3shafer on December 14, 2012, 06:50:37 PM
Honestly I'm not too impressed by the historic photos.  Preserving a Modernist building means preserving...no intricate woodwork, no statuary, no nothing.  The Ikea furniture was probably thrown out in the mid-60s.  The Calder mobile is typical of the period and the Miro painting is up at the art museum and it ain't coming back. 

Lots of older preserved buildings have had their interiors gutted over time. Doesn't mean they aren't worth saving. I can't believe I am going to defend modernist architecture but perhaps it is the fact that it has no intricate woodwork, no statuary, no nothing that makes it so unique. If this was just another building similar to multiple other similar looking buildings on the block, I may be more inclined to agree with you but as I understand it this was one of the orginators of this style, at least in the region. It is still reflective of an era, time, and mentality that, though, may not agreeable to all isn't something we should sweep under the rug and pretend never happened. Just as we can't fathom people 50 years ago tearing down all of the 19th century gems we all love, a twenty-something 50 years in the future could very well say the same thing about us. With the right, context sensitive alterations, I think this building could work.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: OTR on December 17, 2012, 01:17:46 PM
a great read about the Terrace Plaza - written in 2009 by Casey Coston

http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx (http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx)

as the column says, this would be the perfect location for a W hotel - sorry to say it won't happen
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jdm00 on August 12, 2013, 11:55:38 AM
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/08/12/new-owner-of-former-terrace-plaza.html?ana=e_cinci_bn&u=mdqxSjVwpbwLHTa+xb7xwQ0dc4b18a&t=1376329345 (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/08/12/new-owner-of-former-terrace-plaza.html?ana=e_cinci_bn&u=mdqxSjVwpbwLHTa+xb7xwQ0dc4b18a&t=1376329345)

Looks like they are planning to make it a hotel again. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on August 12, 2013, 01:08:49 PM
Good news!  I hope they keep the interior with the 50s look.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on August 12, 2013, 01:16:32 PM
pretty awesome news. 

so that is 3 large vacant buildings (terrace plaza, enquirer building, Bartlett building) that are all being renovated. this plus the 580 building that was more or less empty takes a lot of empty square footage up in the CBD.  keep moving forward!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 12, 2013, 01:21:27 PM
Assuming all three of these projects are brought to fruition, will there be any large vacant buildings remaining downtown? 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: JohnClevesSymmes on August 12, 2013, 01:31:59 PM
^It depends on how you define "large." I think the Schmidt building is pretty much empty, as is the Brendamour building next door. The building with McHahn's in it on Race is empty but for the first floor retail. Can't recall the status off the top of my head of the old Delta building at 7th and Plum but I thought that was empty too.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: KyleCincy on August 12, 2013, 02:38:58 PM
Good news. I hope the new owner does something with the rooftop bar.
Guests like outdoor area and rooftops. Also outdoor space on the level where to hotel portion begins.

(http://media02.tvtrip.com/partner/4/0/4/2/6/8/8/4042688.jpeg?jsCall)

(http://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/Pics/History/2011/MAR11_GourmetRoom1.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: old edale on August 12, 2013, 02:58:15 PM
I do worry about a potential glut of hotel space in the city.  The one place that I think could really use a hotel is The Banks, and they're the ones who appear to be struggling the most to get one built.  Any chance the development team could turn that portion of the site into residential instead?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmblec2 on August 12, 2013, 03:10:41 PM
I do worry about a potential glut of hotel space in the city.  The one place that I think could really use a hotel is The Banks, and they're the ones who appear to be struggling the most to get one built.  Any chance the development team could turn that portion of the site into residential instead?

I think the Banks is struggling to land a hotel for two reasons. It is very expensive to build brand new. All of these "new" hotels are in old buildings that have been bought on the cheap. The second reason is that now there are a bunch of new hotels coming online, making the hotel a riskier investment to banks/investors.
I now worry the Holiday Inn could be in jeopardy now, as they have already reduced the size and scope of the project.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: RockyMountainHigh on August 12, 2013, 03:24:11 PM
Assuming all three of these projects are brought to fruition, will there be any large vacant buildings remaining downtown?

The large, 10-story red-brick building (old Pogue's warehouse?) on the east side of Race between Third and Fourth is probably the largest completely vacant building in downtown. And I've never heard so much as a whisper of it ever being redeveloped. Surprising, considering its great location and seemingly awesome views.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on August 12, 2013, 03:46:19 PM
Assuming all three of these projects are brought to fruition, will there be any large vacant buildings remaining downtown?

The large, 10-story red-brick building (old Pogue's warehouse?) on the east side of Race between Third and Fourth is probably the largest completely vacant building in downtown. And I've never heard so much as a whisper of it ever being redeveloped. Surprising, considering its great location and seemingly awesome views.

Plus, much like Terrace Plaza, the old Pogue's Warehouse is a fine example of Modernism. I would love to get a look inside it.

Also, it seems like the Warehouse is owned by the development arm of Drury hotels... But it has been since 2000 so it doesn't seem like there's any plan for it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: KyleCincy on August 12, 2013, 03:59:49 PM
I do worry about a potential glut of hotel space in the city.  The one place that I think could really use a hotel is The Banks, and they're the ones who appear to be struggling the most to get one built.  Any chance the development team could turn that portion of the site into residential instead?

With how hot Apartment development is, and low vacancy rates, you have to think they looked at that but the cost to convert was too much.
Since this was hotel not long ago the cost to renovate much less than a conversion to a different end use.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: TheCOV on August 12, 2013, 04:24:46 PM
I do worry about a potential glut of hotel space in the city.  The one place that I think could really use a hotel is The Banks, and they're the ones who appear to be struggling the most to get one built.  Any chance the development team could turn that portion of the site into residential instead?

With how hot Apartment development is, and low vacancy rates, you have to think they looked at that but the cost to convert was too much.
Since this was hotel not long ago the cost to renovate much less than a conversion to a different end use.


I thought it would go apartment as well.  I would think that the fact it was built as hotel would only ease its conversion to apartment.  There is already so much existing plumbing infrastructure- the piece I would think is most difficult and costly to retrofit.  Of course, the parking component is already in place as well.
My only concern with apartment conversion would be the potential loss of the public spaces at the former lounge and terrace.  It doesn't mean those couldn't remain as public uses/attractions, but it would certainly not be as likely as in a hotel project.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: mcadrenaline on August 12, 2013, 06:03:02 PM
Yikes -- this is a lot of new hotel inventory coming on the market at one time. You have to wonder which one of these is the first to back out and/or what this means for maintaining a healthy rate & occupancy environment...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: oakiehigh on August 12, 2013, 07:19:34 PM
Keep in mind we have a casino now which is also driving people to stay downtown more than past years. 

Two recent personal stories:

1.) We had some friends come in town last minute a few months back during the weekend of the Taste of Cincy.   They tried every hotel downtown, Covington, and as far out as I-74 Rybolt.  Every one was booked solid.  They ended up staying farther north of the city.

2.) I took a trip to Cleveland a few weeks back and ran into the same problem there.  Most of the hotels I've stayed in the past were booked solid three weeks out.  I luckily got a cancelled room at the Marriot last minute.

I think these casinos have been a game changer in driving the hotel industry in Ohio over the past year.  Not to mention the many other events that are happening it seems every week/weekend downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Rabbit Hash on August 12, 2013, 07:40:06 PM
Demolish the Millennium. Build at The Banks.  Plus a JW on Plum.  ;)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: metrocity on August 13, 2013, 01:51:00 AM
From the article:

Quote
Currently, all of the furniture, fixtures, carpet, operating supplies and equipment in the building are being removed.

I peered in the lobby a few years ago, and the furniture looked cool...maybe even original.  I hope they don't toss things that might be of value....wouldn't be surprised if the stuff was Florence Knoll or Herman Miller (or similar).  It was also pretty amazing that the street lobby doors and windows looked original and custom.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: northsider on August 13, 2013, 05:11:41 AM
Demolish the Millennium. Build at The Banks.  Plus a JW on Plum.  ;)

Even if the Millennium does get demolished (from your lips to God's ears!), the smart play is to build another hotel on its site - generally a good idea to have a big hotel that directly connects with your convention center.

anyway, the news about the Terrace Plaza is super exciting.  Wondering what they'll do with the space where the department stores used to be. It's actually a great space for a data center.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on August 13, 2013, 06:56:10 AM
From the article:

Quote
Currently, all of the furniture, fixtures, carpet, operating supplies and equipment in the building are being removed.

I peered in the lobby a few years ago, and the furniture looked cool...maybe even original.  I hope they don't toss things that might be of value....wouldn't be surprised if the stuff was Florence Knoll or Herman Miller (or similar).  It was also pretty amazing that the street lobby doors and windows looked original and custom.

Hopefully they aren't just tossing it.  I would pay money for a lot of that stuff - I'm sure others would, too. Mid Century Modern furniture is a goldmine right now.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: CincyIntheKnow on August 13, 2013, 09:03:28 AM
^It depends on how you define "large." I think the Schmidt building is pretty much empty, as is the Brendamour building next door. The building with McHahn's in it on Race is empty but for the first floor retail. Can't recall the status off the top of my head of the old Delta building at 7th and Plum but I thought that was empty too.

A lot of buildings are getting gobbled up with the current apartment frenzy... McHahn's and at least 3 others are currently pending on CincyMLS.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on August 13, 2013, 09:12:49 AM
^It depends on how you define "large." I think the Schmidt building is pretty much empty, as is the Brendamour building next door. The building with McHahn's in it on Race is empty but for the first floor retail. Can't recall the status off the top of my head of the old Delta building at 7th and Plum but I thought that was empty too.

A lot of buildings are getting gobbled up with the current apartment frenzy... McHahn's and at least 3 others are currently pending on CincyMLS.

I live on race so it would be nice to see the McHanns building have some more life in it.  I can see that corner really making progress with the Terrace, and DunHumby building coming online.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: climberguy714 on August 13, 2013, 02:35:43 PM
I'm really excited about this new development.  It seemed to come out of nowhere.  I really hope they focus on restoring it rather than totally gutting it and starting over.  From pictures I've seen it looks like it was a really beautiful building inside.  I'm glad the question about what to do with the old department store isn't stopping them from their interest in the building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: taestell on August 13, 2013, 02:42:10 PM
I hope everyone caught this from the Business Courier article (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/08/12/new-owner-of-former-terrace-plaza.html?page=all):

Quote
This isn’t the first time the property was brought to Friedberg’s attention. He visited the building in 2000. He wasn’t interested in buying it then because he didn’t think the city had momentum.

“Everything at that point was moving across the river,” he said. “I was not, at that time, enthusiastic about Cincinnati. I’ve been proven wrong.”

He said he was attracted by the “phenomenal job Cincinnati has done turning the city around.”
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: northsider on August 14, 2013, 01:56:19 PM
Yeah, that caught my attention... and it's a good example of how success builds on itself!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on August 14, 2013, 02:33:52 PM
That windowless block of floors at the base of the building does present quite a challenge.  I'm at a loss to come up with any ideas for what might go in there. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: BlackBengal on August 14, 2013, 02:44:51 PM
That windowless block of floors at the base of the building does present quite a challenge.  I'm at a loss to come up with any ideas for what might go in there. 

Easy, you punch holes in them and install windows, but I think this will prevent you from qualifying for historic tax credits.

The other idea that I love, but have no idea if it is feasible, is to gut the base floors and put in a multiple screen movie theater. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on August 14, 2013, 03:06:45 PM
^I'd love it if they reopened the bricked in section of windows on the eastern portion of the second floor, made that into the concessions area/ticket area for a theater, and used the rest as a series of small theaters. That could be a really unique draw to Downtown and amenity for hotel guests.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: CincyGuy45202 on August 14, 2013, 03:49:22 PM
Most of the second floor used to have windows. I'd love to see those return. Would make a huge difference.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: old edale on August 15, 2013, 08:45:31 AM
I know this is probably a pipe dream, but I think this building would be great as a W hotel.  It's got the modern elements that give it the refined but eclectic look that most W's have.  The restaurant spaces could be SO cool if they got the right operators in them.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: BlackBengal on August 15, 2013, 08:55:23 AM
I know this is probably a pipe dream, but I think this building would be great as a W hotel.  It's got the modern elements that give it the refined but eclectic look that most W's have.  The restaurant spaces could be SO cool if they got the right operators in them.

I have stayed in two Ws and I don't see what the big deal is.  They are nice, but not anything special.  21C is way nicer than either of the Ws I have stayed at.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: old edale on August 15, 2013, 10:04:35 AM
I know this is probably a pipe dream, but I think this building would be great as a W hotel.  It's got the modern elements that give it the refined but eclectic look that most W's have.  The restaurant spaces could be SO cool if they got the right operators in them.

I have stayed in two Ws and I don't see what the big deal is.  They are nice, but not anything special.  21C is way nicer than either of the Ws I have stayed at.

The quality of design found in a W is much higher than most chain hotels.  Comparing a chain to a boutique hotel is like comparing apples to oranges.  Besides, I think 21C tries a little too hard.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: BlackBengal on August 15, 2013, 10:27:51 AM
I know this is probably a pipe dream, but I think this building would be great as a W hotel.  It's got the modern elements that give it the refined but eclectic look that most W's have.  The restaurant spaces could be SO cool if they got the right operators in them.

I have stayed in two Ws and I don't see what the big deal is.  They are nice, but not anything special.  21C is way nicer than either of the Ws I have stayed at.

The quality of design found in a W is much higher than most chain hotels.  Comparing a chain to a boutique hotel is like comparing apples to oranges.  Besides, I think 21C tries a little too hard.

21C tries to hard?  Here are some images of various Ws.

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01840/w-hotel_1840227b.jpg)

(http://inthralld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Wunderbar-Lounge-at-Montreal-W-Hotel-3.jpg)

(http://www.andrewharper.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/W-Hotel-Istanbul.jpg)

This is the type of crap that will look sad and ridiculous in 10 years, if it doesnt already.  I don't think that is the case with 21C.   21C is classy and understated compared to your typical W.

Also, 21C is not exactly a boutique.  It is a young chain, with three hotels and a few more in the works.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ryanlammi on August 28, 2013, 09:49:13 PM
A friend of mine is raising funds to print his book (profits go toward the Cincinnati Preservation Association and Cincinnati Art Museum) about the Terrace Plaza Hotel. Please consider donating here (http://fundly.com/cincinnati-s-terrace-plaza-hotel-book#more-info).

Here is the description he places on the site about the project:

Quote
In June 2009, I completed my Master of Architecture thesis on Cincinnati's Terrace Plaza Hotel entitled [re]Marketing Modernism: the revision of an iconic mid-century, mixed-use hotel. The thesis included a history of the building, as well as adaptive use and rebranding proposals for the nearly abandoned building. Though currently threatened by neglect, the Terrace Plaza Hotel was the most technologically-advanced hotel in the world when it opened in 1948. Designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, the senior designer was 24-year Natalie de Blois - one of the first women architects to design such a structure. The ambitious project, started just after WWII, included artworks commissioned by Joan Miró, Alexander Calder, Saul Steinberg, and Jim Davis, along with textiles by Marianne Strengell and lighting design by Abe Feder.

In Fall 2012, one of my thesis chairs submitted the thesis to the Young Voices Publication Award and it was selected to be the 2013 publication.

I was thrilled at the honor and the opportunity to have attention paid to the Terrace Plaza and to Natalie de Blois.

I was fortunate enough to help bring Natalie to Cincinnati to visit the Terrace Plaza for the first time in November 2008 (she was never allowed to meet with the clients or visit the site at the time, because being a woman). I was even more fortunate to have Natalie's guidance and support during both the thesis and this book project. Unfortunately she passed away last month, just before the book will go to press, but this project will help tell her story and the story of this amazing Modern building that was so ahead of its time.

Though the book was funded by the Award, it will not include color images which I believe are critical to telling the stories of the Terrace Plaza and its artists and designers.

I must raise $1,000 in order to include color pages within the book. Please consider supporting this project and helping make history as this will be the first book on the Terrace Plaza Hotel and the first on Natalie de Blois.

Oh, and this is a non-profit book project. All proceeds will go toward the preservation of the building and its artwork through donations to the Cincinnati Preservation Association and the Cincinnati Art Museum.

Thank you so much for your consideration!

Shawn
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 20, 2013, 07:18:14 AM
ENQ INVESTIGATES: Lawsuits follow Terrace Plaza developer
Sep. 19, 2013

Written by Amber Hunt



A man who announced plans to resurrect the shuttered Terrace Plaza Hotel in downtown Cincinnati has left behind a trail of bankruptcies and lawsuits in New York and California, The Enquirer has learned.

Federal bankruptcy records indicate that Alan G. Friedberg, who became owner of the historic hotel in June, filed for bankruptcy twice in New York since 2006. He’s also been a defendant in multimillion-dollar lawsuits stemming from troubled projects in both New York and California.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130919/NEWS/309190176?nclick_check=1 (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130919/NEWS/309190176?nclick_check=1)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: northsider on September 20, 2013, 08:59:31 AM
oh man, this quote makes him sound super shady in a hilarious way:

Quote
“You got the wrong person,” he said in a phone conversation Wednesday, adding: “I don’t want you digging up information on my previous projects.”

sure, telling a journalist that you don't want them digging into your background always makes journalists back off, because clearly there's nothing suspicious or of interest going on  :roll:

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: neilworms on September 20, 2013, 10:45:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RORm1z90-Bs  :-D
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 20, 2013, 10:57:22 AM
I am amazed the Enquirer actually dusted off some real investigative journalism, even if it was only a google search and a few phone calls!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on December 26, 2013, 08:12:51 AM
OPINION: Terrace Hilton needs a vision for its future
Dec. 26, 2013 8:33 AM
Written by Shawn Patrick Tubb



The former Terrace Plaza at 15 W. Sixth St., Downtown, is now mostly vacant. When it opened in 1948, it was regarded nationally for its technological innovations and collection of modern art.

Built by the Emery family, which only 15 years before had built Carew Tower and the Netherland Plaza Hotel, it was once considered one of the nation’s most famous modernist hotels, and was known for its Gourmet Room restaurant and its 30-foot abstract mural by Spanish artist Joan Miro (now housed at the Cincinnati Art Museum).

“Cincinnati’s Terrace Plaza Hotel: An Icon of American Modernism” by University of Cincinnati graduate Shawn Patrick Tubb recounts the stories of the young designers, artists and builders who collaborated to produce what was then a radically new mixed-use complex.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131226/EDIT02/312260027/OPINION-Terrace-Hilton-needs-vision-its-future (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131226/EDIT02/312260027/OPINION-Terrace-Hilton-needs-vision-its-future)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on July 29, 2014, 11:09:17 AM
Nothing concrete to report on here...but from my apartment window you can see the roof of terrace plaza and they have recently added scaffolding around the top as well as one of those yellow pipes often used in demolition that goes down the side of the building.

Also could see some people on the roof recently.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on July 29, 2014, 11:14:28 AM
Interesting.

I really love this building, minus the base. A full scale renovation of the tower portion (with an epic rooftop bar please) and a more thorough redesign of the base to actually activate and interact with the street would do wonders for this building. And for connecting 5th to the new storefronts which will be in Dunnhumby.

I really hope that whenever something does actually happen with this building it's not hotel. Some modernist apartments would be a really welcome addition to Downtown and this building seems to be pretty nicely set up for just that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on July 29, 2014, 11:37:45 AM
Yeah the big hurdle with this building is what do you do with that massive windowless space in the lower half and still make the building a profitable investment?

Apartments would be awesome at this location.. would fill them up easily with 1,000+ people working right across the street. Then if you get some decent tenants on the Race/6th side and some new sidewalks then suddenly this corner goes from dead to a complete 180.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: BlackBengal on July 29, 2014, 11:37:54 AM
My vision for this building is to convert the first several windowless floors into a movie theater.  A huge video board facing Vine St. would be hung on the outside wall to advertise movies and showtimes. 

The top floors would be some combination of hotel/apartments/condos. And of course a great rooftop bar/restaurant.

This may be completely unrealistic, but it would be awesome. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: neilworms on July 29, 2014, 12:04:46 PM
Quote
Yeah the big hurdle with this building is what do you do with that massive windowless space in the lower half and still make the building a profitable investment?

Apartments would be awesome at this location.. would fill them up easily with 1,000+ people working right across the street. Then if you get some decent tenants on the Race/6th side and some new sidewalks then suddenly this corner goes from dead to a complete 180.

Grocery store, ideally, see also: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.88157,-87.647348,3a,49.3y,26.85h,110.99t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXGghxOwtH4btJ1NzyExTHw!2e0
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmblec2 on July 29, 2014, 02:16:41 PM
I know this has probably be discussed before on this thread. But can't they cut holes out like they are doing @580?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Jimmy_James on July 29, 2014, 03:32:09 PM
^Although I'm not personally a fan, it's a historic facade, one of the few of that style (modern?) in the city.  Cutting windows into it or turning it into a billboard would be similar to removing the ornamentation from a 19th century facade.  Your best bet is to push for reuse with a business that doesn't want/need windows, such as a movie theater, bowling alley, supermarket, scientific lab, or bank/vaults.  Actually, I wonder if this could house a self storage operation (those units with locking garage doors) for the urban area.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on July 29, 2014, 04:07:17 PM
I would disagree with all of that actually. Historic? Yeah sure. Awful? Absolutely? Terrible street presence? Absolutely. Deterrent to people walking along street? Yep. Being old isn't enough for me to want to see it saved. Not only that but it's also not in the same design as it was once without the second floor glass on the east end.

I'd so much rather see the actually interesting portion of the building which is a far better representation of modernism, the tower, restored, and for the base to be completely changed. A giant four or five story brick wall, no matter what you do with it, is going to kill street life. That was its intention. The street was 'dirty' and therefore separating people from it was the goal. We've learned that's a bad idea, especially in our city centers. Cutting holes in it seems like a good idea at undoing the huge problems that it brought to that block.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: natininja on July 29, 2014, 05:00:49 PM
I don't mind preserving its modernist character for the foreseeable future. It's not like contemporary feelings about historic tastes have a good track record. Let's not be so hasty to destroy the past.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on July 29, 2014, 05:01:06 PM
The original version was almost all glass storefront on the first floor (think window displays like Bloomingdale's in NYC) and must have had an interesting street presence. The valet area needs to be removed and the storefront should be restored there to create a hotel lobby (on-street valet like 21C has should be fine here as well). The huge expanse of brick is classy, and people calling for it to be removed, punctured for windows, etc. will be our generation's version of the people who tore down Italianate buildings all over the city because they looked dated.

(http://messer.com/assets/uploads/images/TerracePlaza2.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on July 29, 2014, 06:22:19 PM
I think there's some nuance being missed here though. I personally love modernism and wish most of it was in a better state than it currently is. But I also understand that certain aspects of modernism don't mesh at all with urbanism. Like the idea that the street if dirty and that people don't want a connection to street life. The base of this building falls squarely in this idea which is why I view it as a problem. The tower, on the other hand, is definitely classy and would be a great asset to downtown restored.

Massive swaths of brick might be classy in theory, but in practice they're just uncomfortable. The dislike for this base isn't because it's "old" it's because it doesn't, nor has it ever worked with an urbanist fabric which is a problem for being in the center of a city. That being said, a ground floor modification COULD potentially be enough to bring life back to that portion of the building and would allow the brick to remain. I'm just skeptical that would ever be enough.

But that's all just my opinion, for whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: metrocity on July 29, 2014, 08:47:04 PM
I seem to recall that some of the store fronts were filled a few years ago, wasn't the hat shop on the corner in this building and maybe a small convenience store? If the store fronts are active, someone on the sidewalk wouldn't really notice the blank brick wall above and it wouldn't kill the street IMO. Get a cash cow telecom/server farm in there to help pay for the upper stories as condos, and residents also get great internet speeds. win/win. It's a wonderful modernist building, the first hotel designed by SOM, and one of the first modernist hotels in the US, and most of the interior design was by a woman (rare for the time).

http://www.som.com/projects/terrace_plaza_hotel

"SOM’s design team included Louis Skidmore (from nearby Lawrenceburg, Indiana and a graduate of the University of Cincinnati) with William Hartman as project manager; because SOM’s key designer, Gordon Bunshaft, was away in WW II, much of the building’s design fell to Nathalie DeBlois, a rare woman Modernist architect, trained at Columbia University while so many men were at war."

http://cincinnatipreservation.org/advocacy/modernism/the-terrace-plaza-hotel/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Jimmy_James on July 29, 2014, 09:55:44 PM
The original version was almost all glass storefront on the first floor (think window displays like Bloomingdale's in NYC) and must have had an interesting street presence. The valet area needs to be removed and the storefront should be restored there to create a hotel lobby (on-street valet like 21C has should be fine here as well). The huge expanse of brick is classy, and people calling for it to be removed, punctured for windows, etc. will be our generation's version of the people who tore down Italianate buildings all over the city because they looked dated.

Exactly.  This is far from my favorite building, but I've always believed that when you renovate any structure, you should pay respect to the style in which it was built.  Anything else looks weird and dated 20 years later.  Whatever you may think of the base, it adds to Cincinnati's architectural diversity.  Instead of trying to "fix" the base by adding windows, restoring it to look like this would be a huge improvement:

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6090/6050354953_82d09281c8_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ink on July 29, 2014, 10:06:00 PM
Cincinnati, like any city, has blocks dominated with ugly surface lots, concrete parking garages, non-historic intrusion buildings, etc. Not every block in a city has to be successful at engaging the pedestrian, as long as the vast majority do so. We can let this one slide to preserve its architectural intergrity, and still not risk an unwelcoming city streetscape if we work on correcting the other blocks that are a drain on the streetscape, but do not have any reason to be maintained.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: natininja on July 29, 2014, 10:31:49 PM
Cincinnati, like any city, has blocks dominated with ugly surface lots, concrete parking garages, non-historic intrusion buildings, etc. Not every block in a city has to be successful at engaging the pedestrian, as long as the vast majority do so. We can let this one slide to preserve its architectural intergrity, and still not risk an unwelcoming city streetscape if we work on correcting the other blocks that are a drain on the streetscape, but do not have any reason to be maintained.

Very well put.

If in another 50 years people still don't like it, I might be okay w/ tearing it down. But there are far worse offenders now, like surface lots and parking garages. There's even something slightly charming about this building; I can see why it was considered fancy back in the day. Even if the style of that day is mostly reviled now.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on July 30, 2014, 05:46:52 AM
If the store fronts are active, someone on the sidewalk wouldn't really notice the blank brick wall above and it wouldn't kill the street IMO.

I was going to say something similar the other day, and I think on Vine Street that's probably a fair statement.  However, the building is so massive along 6th street you can't help but notice how completely blank and despotic it is.  Opening those second floor windows would help, but the first floor is so squat to begin with that its presence is crushed by the mass looming above it.  I doubt there's a solution that will satisfy everyone. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jim uber on July 30, 2014, 06:53:23 AM
I doubt there's a solution that will satisfy everyone. 
Ya think? ;-)

Personally I absolutely love the look of this building in the above pictures, with the vantage point from afar and maybe 8 stories in the air. The brickwork itself is just fascinating. I don't know I've ever seen brick laid this way without overlapping joints. I think the long vertical joints are cool and the quality of the mortar is amazing.

That being said I do feel sad at street level. But, I really do think that in my case, I'm just sad for the building. I think I'd feel happy if it had the above mentioned mods for the first two floors and was full of active tenants.

I mean, I don't need to be engaged by the street level architecture, without thinking, everywhere -- giving up my responsibility for how I feel to the architecture. Sometimes I think it's ok for the architecture to completely stand out and dominate, even if that means that it disturbs all motion and feeling around it. In my mind, it's a showpiece, worthy of being observed for what it is.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on July 30, 2014, 07:08:17 AM
Whenever a building or development is shown from an overhead or distant view, that should be a red flag that its street level interface is lacking.  It's sometimes unavoidable for large buildings, but at the very least a distant ground-level view (like the renderings for Dunnhumby) is better than a helicopter view that few if any people will ever see in reality. 

The brick pattern (stack bond) was a common early-modernist technique for showing that the brick is just a veneer and not load bearing.  It has to be executed flawlessly however, because the lined up joints are completely unforgiving to any wavering.  The typical layout with each course shifted by half a brick (running bond) is much better at hiding side-to-side variation. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on July 30, 2014, 07:33:49 AM
If the store fronts are active, someone on the sidewalk wouldn't really notice the blank brick wall above and it wouldn't kill the street IMO.

I was going to say something similar the other day, and I think on Vine Street that's probably a fair statement.  However, the building is so massive along 6th street you can't help but notice how completely blank and despotic it is.  Opening those second floor windows would help, but the first floor is so squat to begin with that its presence is crushed by the mass looming above it.  I doubt there's a solution that will satisfy everyone. 

I think single biggest flaw on 6th street is the valet/pull in area. Those are awful everywhere they exist in the city, but this one is one of the worst because of the way the rest of the building meets the sidewalk. Get rid of that, and establish some sort of retail or lobby use on the entirety of the first floor and that block would be much, much different no matter what is going on on floors 2-8.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Civvik on July 30, 2014, 10:31:06 AM
Ugh. We are getting into an era where historic designations are coming around to mid-century architecture. My absolute least favorite.

To me mid-century simply isn't a pinnacle era in design of anything. It was our whole species lurching forward into the technological age and experimenting with how to express that in design. We were shedding the age of hand-made, ornamented, humanistic stuff. And you know what? Almost all of it is really fucking awful. It's awkward. It's unrefined. It's ignorant. We are just now, in the 21st century, beginning to have the experience, the finesse, the materials technology, to really express "modernism" as a refined design standard.

To each his own, but I just have zero attraction to anything beyond the 1930's, and even Art Deco isn't high on my list. In fact, I think the pretend nostalgia that people my age (20s, 30s) have for mid-century modern is so contrived, it's almost trendy.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: natininja on July 30, 2014, 10:46:27 AM
^ I agree with you, but don't agree that means we should destroy, or completely change the character of, this particular building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on July 30, 2014, 11:33:52 AM
Ugh. We are getting into an era where historic designations are coming around to mid-century architecture. My absolute least favorite.

I think there were people in Cincinnati in 1950 saying very similar things about Italianate architecture. Luckily Cincinnati had enough of that around that they couldn’t destroy it all. There’s not a whole lot of mid-century modern around, hopefully we can manage to keep it for future generations who might value it more than some do today.

As for furniture, many would say the mid-century modern style produced some of the greatest designs in history. I don’t think many people have to force themselves to like it; they’re the antiques of our generation.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on July 30, 2014, 11:55:05 AM
Just because something is rare that doesn't mean all examples should be preserved though.  I agree we're in the "danger zone" for mid-century modernism that much Victorian architecture was in a few decades ago.  Maybe there will be a turnaround and it will become better liked or even loved, but that's not a guarantee.  Either way, a noble goal is to preserve the best examples of a particular style rather than trying to preserve it all with some broad brush.  When the individual building is less relevant to the overall form and cohesiveness of the neighborhood, that's when you implement a historic district.  When a particular building is a notable example of work in and of itself, then you do an individual landmark designation, but allow the surroundings to "keep trying" to build their own landmarks.  Otherwise you eventually run out of redevelopable properties because everything becomes protected in the long term. 

To some extent this already happens naturally, whether for architectural merit or simple construction quality.  By definition the better examples last longer through time on average.  There was no shortage of bad Victorian architecture constructed in the 19th century, and much of that has since gone away.  Even a lot of the bad mid-century stuff is already disappearing, like high-rise housing projects and dowdy schools from the 50s, etc.  Here's the thing to keep in mind though.  When talking about the poor examples of any historic or revival architectural style, the adjectives used are usually along the lines of gaudy, garish, ugly, or stodgy.  With modernist buildings though, you're more likely to hear terms like despotic, monotonous, shocking, or oppressive.  That's a pretty fundamental difference, and it shows that the hatred a lot of people have for modernist designs is more than about stylistic tastes, but even the most basic interaction between the building and the people who occupy and look upon it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Civvik on July 30, 2014, 12:25:07 PM
Ugh. We are getting into an era where historic designations are coming around to mid-century architecture. My absolute least favorite.

I think there were people in Cincinnati in 1950 saying very similar things about Italianate architecture. Luckily Cincinnati had enough of that around that they couldn’t destroy it all. There’s not a whole lot of mid-century modern around, hopefully we can manage to keep it for future generations who might value it more than some do today.

As for furniture, many would say the mid-century modern style produced some of the greatest designs in history. I don’t think many people have to force themselves to like it; they’re the antiques of our generation.


I think maybe you missed my point. Certainly people in the 50's wanted to get away from Victorian or Italianate because it was tired, a lot of it was literally dirty and run down, and they were excited about the future. The difference is that those styles were at the top of their game when they were created. They are examples of things that were refined and refined and refined and refined over hundreds of years. They are valuable because they are good examples of what people can craft. Most mid 20th century stuff is crap.

The 20th century tore down the 19th because it was old. The 21st should tear down the 20th because it was bad.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Civvik on July 30, 2014, 12:28:18 PM
Ugh. We are getting into an era where historic designations are coming around to mid-century architecture. My absolute least favorite.

I think there were people in Cincinnati in 1950 saying very similar things about Italianate architecture. Luckily Cincinnati had enough of that around that they couldn’t destroy it all. There’s not a whole lot of mid-century modern around, hopefully we can manage to keep it for future generations who might value it more than some do today.

As for furniture, many would say the mid-century modern style produced some of the greatest designs in history. I don’t think many people have to force themselves to like it; they’re the antiques of our generation.


Haha. Sorry, I was just referring to architecture. I think Jake took that and ran with it. Personally, I think you can be monolithic and simplistic with a coffee table and it doesn't look oppressive. It's 2 feet tall. A building is another story.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ucgrady on July 30, 2014, 10:00:56 PM
Dangerous aesthetic opinions like these about terrace plaza are how you lose buildings like the Prentice in Chicago. If I bought a Jackson pollack should I add some straight lines to it to make it more clean and modern? It's a slippery slope and besides this place could be totally cool Mad Men style.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Civvik on July 30, 2014, 11:00:23 PM
The Prentice Hospital was a landmark building no matter what you thought of the style, and one of the first designed with CAD. Comparing it to a mid-century hotel in Cincinnati that happens to have a brutalist base is just sentimental and silly.

I think most of the time, judging important buildings is like the test for prurience in sexually oriented film: You just know it when you see it. Terrace Plaza is a perfect example. It has a fantastic history. But you look at the building and you just go "ugh." It's a dud.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on July 31, 2014, 05:56:05 AM
If I bought a Jackson pollack should I add some straight lines to it to make it more clean and modern?

No matter how much the starchitects may want to believe it (or want everyone else to believe it) buildings are not and cannot be pure art objects like a painting or sculpture.  They have practical, functional, and civic considerations that must be taken into account along with aesthetics.  That's exactly why we're having this argument in the first place. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 31, 2014, 06:18:47 AM
Ugh. We are getting into an era where historic designations are coming around to mid-century architecture. My absolute least favorite.

I think there were people in Cincinnati in 1950 saying very similar things about Italianate architecture. Luckily Cincinnati had enough of that around that they couldn’t destroy it all. There’s not a whole lot of mid-century modern around, hopefully we can manage to keep it for future generations who might value it more than some do today.

As for furniture, many would say the mid-century modern style produced some of the greatest designs in history. I don’t think many people have to force themselves to like it; they’re the antiques of our generation.


Haha. Sorry, I was just referring to architecture. I think Jake took that and ran with it. Personally, I think you can be monolithic and simplistic with a coffee table and it doesn't look oppressive. It's 2 feet tall. A building is another story.

Looks like somebody deleted one of my posts, no doubt because it was ostensibly "off topic", but precisely because it was so on-topic. 

I think the Terrace Plaza has value only because it breaks up the streetscape with shapes and textures that would never be built again, but I think it in no way contributes as much to the city as, say, The Cincinnatian Hotel directly across the street.  But I can't see how this building survives a red-hot real estate market.  In a prime location we have...a box with boring windows with limited redevelopment potential on top of a box with no windows with very few possible uses.  Compare that to a new building in a prime location where any floor can be rented to just about any conceivable tenant. 

 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on July 31, 2014, 06:28:52 AM
It was probably because it was condescending and unrelated. Fixies and your opinion on them and the people who own them isn't exactly related to the Terrace Plaza Hotel.

Are there any examples architecturally of a building similar to the Terrace? I'm having trouble thinking of anything with such a massive, blank base in the middle of a city at this scale. The ground level is just so awful I'm having trouble imagining anything ever being enough to rectify how much the base kills street life. If it was two blocks away in a less central location I don't think I'd mind as much, but being less than a block away from Fountain Square is where the problem begins in my mind. In one location we're trying to reinvigorate streetlife/pedestrianism, yet you get one block away and there's this, a building which had the goal of doing the exact opposite. It's a dichotomy I'm not really sure how to work with.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ucgrady on July 31, 2014, 11:34:10 AM
I guess I defend this building because it is unique, and there really isn't anything else in cincinnati like it. It is not nearly as interesting as Prentice I grant you, but for our city it is pretty special. Plus all these feelings about it being anti pedestrian have nothing to do with floors 2-8. If the base was transparent and full of tenants/life we wouldn't be having this discussion. Unless you are 40 feet tall or levitating above 6th street it doesn't really matter if there are windows or breaks in the facade anyway up there. A lot of this is just current taste, because if you covered the entire base with reflective glass with an opaque film applied so you couldn't see behind, most people would see that as an improvement. Personally I love the bricks, the way they line up, and they way it feels like a heavy geometric solid floating above the ground floor. I always thought this building would've been perfect for 21c, with the museum in the large windowless base, and the hotel and rooftop above. Oh well
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on July 31, 2014, 12:12:34 PM
I don't know if that statement is accurate. Street life isn't only based on what happens directly on the ground. The first 3 or 4 floors of a building are within one's peripheral when just walking down the street. I'll agree, after a certain point (40 or so feet) it stops mattering as much because you only notice things that high unless you look up. But up to that point you definitely do recognize there's a large, windowless mass above you.

But like you said, if it was teaming with life and had active storefronts (and that awful valet area was removed for a more traditional lobby) then it might just be enough to counteract that feeling of mass looming overhead.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Civvik on July 31, 2014, 12:58:54 PM
I guess I defend this building because it is unique, and there really isn't anything else in cincinnati like it. It is not nearly as interesting as Prentice I grant you, but for our city it is pretty special. Plus all these feelings about it being anti pedestrian have nothing to do with floors 2-8. If the base was transparent and full of tenants/life we wouldn't be having this discussion. Unless you are 40 feet tall or levitating above 6th street it doesn't really matter if there are windows or breaks in the facade anyway up there. A lot of this is just current taste, because if you covered the entire base with reflective glass with an opaque film applied so you couldn't see behind, most people would see that as an improvement. Personally I love the bricks, the way they line up, and they way it feels like a heavy geometric solid floating above the ground floor. I always thought this building would've been perfect for 21c, with the museum in the large windowless base, and the hotel and rooftop above. Oh well

I think the point of the museum hotel would have been lost if the museum part wasn't so woven into the hotel part.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Jimmy_James on July 31, 2014, 01:01:52 PM
So... aside from our current discussion, is anything actually happening with this building?  I haven't heard anything in a long time.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on July 31, 2014, 01:18:15 PM
I think what prompted the topic to be revisited was the appearance of scaffolding and some construction equipment in the upper portion of the tower. Not sure what's going on, whether it's preventative construction, clearing, etc. but something is going on.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmblec2 on August 04, 2014, 09:00:28 AM
There appears to be some DEMO work going on at the top of the Plaza Hotel. If you look at the dunnhumby construction web cam in the corner you can see the roof of the Plaza. There are a bunch of garbage/containers filled with what looks like concrete rubble.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on August 04, 2014, 09:47:55 AM
There appears to be some DEMO work going on at the top of the Plaza Hotel. If you look at the dunnhumby construction web cam in the corner you can see the roof of the Plaza. There are a bunch of garbage/containers filled with what looks like concrete rubble.

There were probably about 20 people up there this morning as i was leaving for work.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on August 04, 2014, 09:50:00 AM
That seems like a pretty hefty amount of people/work being done without at least having some sort of tentative plan for the building. Hopefully we'll be hearing something soon. It'll be so nice to have this building occupied again.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on August 04, 2014, 10:01:18 AM
My guess would be some sort of roof work, but those are pretty big chunks of brick and concrete so I'm not sure what that's all about. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 04, 2014, 11:26:28 AM
Maybe while they're at it they can go over and renovate the Dunhumby building. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on August 05, 2014, 12:07:08 PM
I walked by today and spotted trucks on site from Otis (elevators), and electrical/telecom contractor, and a surveyor. The interior of the shops/storefronts had paper up over the windows and lights on inside, there appears to be some work going on in there as well. I also spotted some people up in the 8th floor windows, which serve the main lobby of the hotel. I wonder why this hasn’t made an appearance in the Courier or Enquirer??
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on August 07, 2014, 01:11:13 PM
I believe two nights ago a large crane around 10:30pm was set up at the base of terrace plaza and lifted all the bags of bricks/concrete and debris from the roof into a dumpster.  It looks like the roof is full again with these large piles of brick to be hauled away again. 

What i cant figure out is what are they demo-ing inside that is resulting in this much material?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on August 08, 2014, 06:39:50 AM
I got a better look at what is going on this morning and it looks like the brick has been stripped off one of the west facing sides of the very top part of the building that rises above the main body of the building. Hence all of the brick that was being loaded into the dumpster.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on August 08, 2014, 06:47:15 AM
^ It's called a parapet.  That's a very common point of failure in the building envelope, especially for concrete and older masonry structures, because of differential movement between materials over time.  Usually the parapet leans inwards as the brick expands slightly from moisture absorption over time, while the concrete (or in older buildings clay block and common brick) structure shrinks.  Any rusting steel lintels also cause further problems because it expands greatly as it rusts, and since it rusts more towards the outside it forms a wedge shape also pushing the parapet towards the inside of the building. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on August 08, 2014, 06:53:33 AM
^ It's called a parapet.  That's a very common point of failure in the building envelope, especially for concrete and older masonry structures, because of differential movement between materials over time.  Usually the parapet leans inwards as the brick expands slightly from moisture absorption over time, while the concrete (or in older buildings clay block and common brick) structure shrinks.  Any rusting steel lintels also cause further problems because it expands greatly as it rusts, and since it rusts more towards the outside it forms a wedge shape also pushing the parapet towards the inside of the building.

Thanks for the info, as my education background is not in this field I lack the technical knowledge.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: DB.est2013 on August 13, 2014, 06:57:10 AM
^ It's called a parapet.  That's a very common point of failure in the building envelope, especially for concrete and older masonry structures, because of differential movement between materials over time.  Usually the parapet leans inwards as the brick expands slightly from moisture absorption over time, while the concrete (or in older buildings clay block and common brick) structure shrinks.  Any rusting steel lintels also cause further problems because it expands greatly as it rusts, and since it rusts more towards the outside it forms a wedge shape also pushing the parapet towards the inside of the building.

Thanks for the info, as my education background is not in this field I lack the technical knowledge.


Saw more bricks being taken down this morning. A lot of work being done here Attempted to post picture but didn't upload.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Cygnus on August 13, 2014, 07:36:19 AM
Make sure they are jpg or gif with a maximum individual size of 200KB and no more then 17 per post.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: nicker66 on August 13, 2014, 08:02:21 AM
My assumptions:

1.  The city ordered the stabilization because it was in bad shape.  The owner is doing the bare minimum to keep the building water tight.
2.  If the city didn't order the stabilization, then the current owner is fixing major problems for an interested hotel operator or a property sale to someone else. 

Also, I know the lower levels are discussed frequently, but I have to assume at this point that the building is such a bargain that you could just leave them empty.  If someone finds a tenant for them, then its a bonus. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: brian korte on September 05, 2014, 11:41:55 AM
According to Kathy at Cincyopolis:

Quote
Yep, they actually started on the Terrace Plaza on 6th. Construction workers told me they’ve got 4 or 5 years of employment at the site which will be hotel and office space.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: OCtoCincy on September 05, 2014, 12:45:35 PM
I just talked with a modernist preservation group who said the building is in imminent danger of demolition.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on September 05, 2014, 01:44:29 PM
I just talked with a modernist preservation group who said the building is in imminent danger of demolition.

Because of the state of disrepair of the building/is it in danger of becoming a public hazard and falling? It was occupied in the mid-2000's wasnt it?

 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ucgrady on September 05, 2014, 02:32:35 PM
Let's hope that Brian Korte's post is the correct one, and that this won't get demolished. That would be awful. Would the workers onsite lie, or leave out the fact that the building will be demo'd during their 4-5 year project? If the demo involves knocking out windows in the base ala 580 building and the building on 4th street that's one thing, but a full building demolition would really be tragic. I know people focus on Italianate buildings and of course Union Terminal and Music hall, but this building deserves its place in the sun too and hopefully a remodel can provide that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ajknee on September 05, 2014, 02:58:40 PM
This is the last news I've seen and it says that the "New owner intends to reopen hotel."
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/08/12/new-owner-of-former-terrace-plaza.html?page=all

The closing date in the article matches the latest closing date on the HamCo Auditor site.  The parcel owner is listed online as:

Owner Information
Call 946-4015 if Incorrect
CINCINNATI 926 HOTEL LLC
600 VINE ST
STE 2800
CINCINNATI, OH 45202 USA


Could we be seeing the initial demo work of the 926 Hotel?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmblec2 on September 08, 2014, 11:07:08 AM
It looks like windows are being removed as well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: taestell on September 08, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
According to Kathy at Cincyopolis:

Quote
Yep, they actually started on the Terrace Plaza on 6th. Construction workers told me they’ve got 4 or 5 years of employment at the site which will be hotel and office space.


Here's a link to that post: http://cincyopolis.wordpress.com/2014/09/05/walking-to-city-hall/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: OCtoCincy on September 08, 2014, 03:04:55 PM
The concern i heard was that the new owner doesn't have a good plan, doesn't have a tenant in line, and may run out of money.  It's had some water damage issues as well. It's not about to collapse or anything, but it's huge and needs a lot of work and no one is clamoring to do anything with it. And a lot of people consider it ugly.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: metrocity on September 08, 2014, 08:52:10 PM
Being an SOM building has its merits on the architectural side, and even though  the aesthetic qualities of the Terrace Plaza may be debatable, also realize that SOM is one of the few firms that also does their own structural and civil engineering. They design some of the best built buildings in modern times. The quality control is super tight and rigorous on their projects, and all materials used in construction and interior design are top notch. I hope this can be saved, they don't do shoddy buildings.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 26, 2014, 07:31:37 AM
Terrace Plaza getting new life?
Bowdeya Tweh, btweh@enquirer.com 1:14 p.m. EDT September 25, 2014



Does something about your community have you puzzled? Emailneedtoknow@enquirer.com and we'll do our best to track down answers.

QUESTION: What if any are the plans for the old Terrace Hotel? Given the resurgence of downtown Cincinnati and the building boom of hotel rooms, it seems like this facility gets overlooked. Will this place ever get repurposed? This would be a great assignment for some College of Design, Architecture, Art and Planning students.

- Ken Perica

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/09/25/terrace-plaza-hotel-cincinnati/16207695/ (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/09/25/terrace-plaza-hotel-cincinnati/16207695/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on September 26, 2014, 07:34:55 AM
So he's fixing code violations just in time to file for bankruptcy and have someone else who actually knows what they're doing take over it? Perfect.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on September 26, 2014, 08:10:04 AM
Ha i thought the same thing. If this guy dumps a bunch of money in and fixes all the stuff that scared other developers away it could pan out pretty well.

Current ownership doesnt seem to have the best track record.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on February 02, 2015, 06:27:31 AM

Downtown hotel’s future uncertain as foreclosure looms
Feb 2, 2015, 7:22am EST
Staff Cincinnati Business Courier


The future of the downtown Cincinnati Terrace Plaza Hotel is hanging in the balance as its owner faces legal trouble, the Enquirer reports.

The iconic hotel at 15 W. Sixth St. is facing foreclosure after its owners defaulted on construction loans.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/02/downtown-hotel-s-future-uncertain-as-foreclosure.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/02/downtown-hotel-s-future-uncertain-as-foreclosure.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on February 02, 2015, 06:38:12 AM
Seems like the perfect time for someone to swoop in, get the property for cheap and without the code violations that were fixed this summer, and convert it to residential. I really hope it doesn't return to being a hotel. We need some more permanent residents in that side of Downtown and this would offer a really unique product. And maybe the base could be marketed towards some of the urban big box stores like City Target at some future date when we have the population Downtown to support it properly.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on February 02, 2015, 07:23:08 AM
Does anybody have interior photos of the building's floors that used to be the department store? I'm curious how easily those floors could be re-purposed for big retail (department store, grocery, big box, etc.).  What are the ceiling heights for those floors? It's not often that you get a huge, windowless footprint... so it sure seems like it'd be a great fit for large format retail.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: cincity on February 02, 2015, 11:07:12 AM
^ The Eastern portion of the base was Bond's and the Western portion was J C Penny's. Here are several interior photos of Bond's from the LOC. http://www.loc.gov/pictures/search/?q=bond's%20cincinnati
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on February 02, 2015, 11:46:29 AM
This link may or may not work (if not, just Google "Terrace Plaza Thesis" and you'll find it):

https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=ucin1243361231&disposition=inline

It has a lot of good photos, including one on page 151 (actually 155) of the former department store space as it exists today. Spoiler: it's incredibly dreary now.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on February 02, 2015, 11:52:45 AM
A windowless large-plate space sounds like just the thing for a downtown Kroger if they aren't willing to build a real urban store elsewhere. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on February 02, 2015, 02:38:08 PM
Thanks for sharing!

This link may or may not work (if not, just Google "Terrace Plaza Thesis" and you'll find it):

https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=ucin1243361231&disposition=inline

It has a lot of good photos, including one on page 151 (actually 155) of the former department store space as it exists today. Spoiler: it's incredibly dreary now.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ajknee on February 02, 2015, 05:03:45 PM
This link may or may not work (if not, just Google "Terrace Plaza Thesis" and you'll find it):

https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=ucin1243361231&disposition=inline

It has a lot of good photos, including one on page 151 (actually 155) of the former department store space as it exists today. Spoiler: it's incredibly dreary now.

Oy!  Yeah, that's REALLY tough to work with.  It's a lot of space with no windows and surprisingly low ceilings.  I don't even think a contemporary department store would work in there.

A grocer could MAYBE take one floor of it.  (CityTarget anyone?)  But even if we were to get something great like that, you've still got a minimum of 4 unused levels.  Could every other floor be removed to give them some height?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Jimmy_James on February 02, 2015, 05:40:31 PM
^A large simple logo like Target's would look great as the only thing on that brick facade. 

Would it be possible to ventilate it and turn it into a hidden parking garage without marring the facade?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ajknee on February 02, 2015, 06:33:12 PM
^A large simple logo like Target's would look great as the only thing on that brick facade. 

Would it be possible to ventilate it and turn it into a hidden parking garage without marring the facade?

I don't think there'd be huge cries from the historic preservation community if the south side had holes punched in it for ventilation.  You could actually relatively easily add a ramp in the back from Race St.  Does anybody know what's inside that weird tower in the back?  I'm assuming that's all freight elevators and other vertical circulation.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: old edale on February 24, 2015, 01:19:19 PM
A 680 job call center is moving into a former department store in Hamilton.  This would have been the perfect use for the bricked over portion of the Terrace Plaza.  It's a shame the building isn't in better condition, because it would seem that this location would have been very competitive in the selection process.  Great news for Hamilton, though.  These types of opportunities don't come around often, so I hope there is another type of use that could make this building feasible.

Link to article about Hamilton: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/02/23/customer-service-firm-plans-to-bring-680-jobs-to.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Brutus_buckeye on February 24, 2015, 03:15:03 PM
That part of the building was a large call center for AT&T until around 2006-2007ish when they were kicked out so the property could be redeveloped.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: nicker66 on February 25, 2015, 07:16:35 AM
This would have been the perfect use for the bricked over portion of the Terrace Plaza. 

This is far from a perfect site for a call center or any back-office use.  Free parking is a necessity for jobs that don't pay well.  Look at Paycor's selection process and why then ended up in Norwood surrounded by a sea of free surface parking. 

The price of this building has to be low enough to ignore the bricked up portion of the project before any action happens. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: IAGuy39 on February 25, 2015, 07:48:57 AM
Yes, I was thinking it would be hard for parking / transportation downtown with lower paying jobs.  Though the bus transit can help mitigate for some people, it would still be a tough for a lot of people to afford parking.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on February 25, 2015, 07:51:13 AM
What it would be perfect for is a data center. CyrusOne has a massive downtown data center already, and there are a few other floors in office buildings around town that have small data storage facilities. Having no windows in your data center is a benefit, whereas it's a negative for almost all other uses.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Cygnus on February 25, 2015, 08:43:56 AM
Doubtful it could be a data center. Minimum ceiling height is 12' - 14' and I'd wonder if the floors could support the weight.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Jimmy_James on February 25, 2015, 09:25:03 AM
^The weight of servers?  I can't imagine that would be an issue.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: taestell on February 25, 2015, 09:37:51 AM
The windowless portion should be something like a data center. It sounds like a lame idea, but there are a few data centers downtown that I know of that take up office space that has windows, yet they just cage them off and tint over them. 

The second floor was originally glass curtain wall like the first floor, though, and I think restoring that would be a nice touch.  I think the solid brick is a historically significant part of the building and I'd hate to lose it, even though it's hard to program a use for such a windowless space. 

Reminds me of the hideous 10 South Canal (http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Building/1128/10-South-Canal.php) building in Chicago. The bottom 20 floors or so are solid concrete walls, as it serves as an AT&T data center.

Here's a photo of the 10 South Canal building in Chicago:

(http://s.mlkshk-cdn.com/r/12ZGG)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 25, 2015, 09:46:09 AM
^The weight of servers?  I can't imagine that would be an issue.

So many ways we could go with a your mom comeback, if this were still a light and airy website. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Cygnus on February 25, 2015, 09:55:18 AM
^The weight of servers?  I can't imagine that would be an issue.

Depends on the slab and how many cabinets / UPS you put on each floor. These tend to weigh 2-3 thousand pounds each.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on September 21, 2015, 10:33:12 AM
Downtown Cincinnati hotel rots as owners battle in court
Quote
As two former business partners battle in court, the former Terrace Plaza Hotel in downtown Cincinnati is rotting.
Located at 15 W. Sixth St., the 20-story building has been in rough shape for the better part of a decade. But when a new ownership group acquired the property in 2013, it looked as though it could return to its former glory.
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/09/21/downtown-cincinnati-hotel-rots-as-owners-battle-in.html

The article goes through all the financial woes of the owners.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: nicker66 on September 21, 2015, 11:18:10 AM
The article goes through all the financial woes of the owners.

"...at this point it would make more sense to tear down the building and sell it for the value of the land."

Only one company can save this project:  3CDC
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on September 21, 2015, 11:54:14 AM
I don't see why this building is such an asset that needs saving. It was a hotel and department store, not even culturally significant.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on September 21, 2015, 11:59:14 AM
Because it's basically the epitome of highrise modernism in the Midwest. Letting it go would be a dramatic loss for architectural history and would be looked back on with the same disdain as we do with demolitions such as the former library where Macy's is, etc.

This building is incredibly unique to Cincinnati as we have very modernist highrises in the city. The tower could very nicely be converted to a residential product we don't currently have Downtown and the base could be reworked to house something (not really sure what since it's a very challenging structure). But demolishing it would be a huge loss for the city.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ryanlammi on September 21, 2015, 12:14:22 PM
^Among architects it may be viewed that way, but the general public probably doesn't care and won't care. It's not some elaborate, objectively beautiful building as the old library or the Albee Theater.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on September 21, 2015, 12:18:24 PM
There's certainly arguments to be made on both sides.  It's a pioneering modernist building by an equally pioneering female architect whose contributions have unfortunately been mostly anonymous and continue to be unrecognized.  The building is of an experimental time period in modernist design, before the "rules" really became solidified and folks like Mies and his ilk ran roughshod over the downtown skylines.  There's very few buildings like this from this time period to begin with, let alone remaining today, so uniqueness and notability are more than satisfied.

On the other hand, from an urbanistic standpoint, the building is a classic example of harsh and aloof modernist ideals, wholly inappropriate for an urban context.  If the completely blank base of the building would need significant numbers of windows cut into it just to make it habitable, on top of all the other alterations and repairs that would be needed, then maybe it's not worth the trouble to preserve something that the majority of people would dub ugly if not oppressive. 

Regardless of the preservation arguments for or against, I wonder if the extraordinarily convoluted financial tribulations of the last few years represents a genuine plan for rehabilitation or a deliberate attempt at demolition by neglect and deference of liability.  Maybe the answer falls somewhere in between, I don't know, but what a mess. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: TroyEros on September 21, 2015, 12:18:24 PM
Honestly it's a really bland and ugly building. I know, I know, it's "historically significant", but the building literally looks like low income housing you would find in the bronx.

 Why not demolish it and open that space up. With housing in high demand for the urban core, I don't see why (assuming things continue to grow in Cincinnati), why that lot can't become a high rise Condo tower instead.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on September 21, 2015, 12:24:39 PM
^Among architects it may be viewed that way, but the general public probably doesn't care and won't care. It's not some elaborate, objectively beautiful building as the old library or the Albee Theater.

And yet those were torn down. Because architecture is cyclical. Just because people right now don't find objective worth in a building like the Terrace Plaza Hotel doesn't mean it isn't there nor does it mean that if it was left to stand that it wouldn't be greatly celebrated as an historic piece of architecture in the same vein as we view things like the Albee and and old library now.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on September 21, 2015, 12:27:44 PM
Honestly it's a really bland and ugly building. I know, I know, it's "historically significant", but the building literally looks like low income housing you would find in the bronx.

 Why not demolish it and open that space up. With housing in high demand for the urban core, I don't see why (assuming things continue to grow in Cincinnati), why that lot can't become a high rise Condo tower instead.

I can't help but point out this attitude is exactly what led to mass demolitions of Italianate buildings starting in the 1950s to make way for parking lots. "These buildings in OTR are awful, they all look like Bronx Tenement housing." Part of the reason the Terrace Plaza looks so bad today is that it's been neglected and abused for decades. Originally, I think it looked very nice, especially so when considering the use:

(http://libapps.libraries.uc.edu/liblog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/TP.jpg)

Another question that should be asked is – would it be replaced with something better? Chances are it wouldn’t.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: TroyEros on September 21, 2015, 12:34:12 PM
Honestly it's a really bland and ugly building. I know, I know, it's "historically significant", but the building literally looks like low income housing you would find in the bronx.

 Why not demolish it and open that space up. With housing in high demand for the urban core, I don't see why (assuming things continue to grow in Cincinnati), why that lot can't become a high rise Condo tower instead.

I can't help but point out this attitude is exactly what led to mass demolitions of Italianate buildings starting in the 1950s to make way for parking lots. "These buildings in OTR are awful, they all look like Bronx Tenement housing." Part of the reason the Terrace Plaza looks so bad today is that it's been neglected and abused for decades. Originally, I think it looked very nice, especially so when considering the use:

(http://libapps.libraries.uc.edu/liblog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/TP.jpg)

Another question that should be asked is – would it be replaced with something better? Chances are it wouldn’t.

 You have to be delusional if you honestly think that the Terrace Plaza building stands shoulder to shoulder to any building in OTR.

 One is built with detail and intricacy and pure labor from the mid to late 1800's by our German forefathers, built from hand brick by brick.

The other, looks like modernistic crap.

And would it be replaced it with anything better? If you belive that Cincinnati is still doomed and will continue to be nothing more than empty lot-ville, than sure, probably not.

 But I on the other hand think the urban core is growing and is on the uptick, and the demand in housing will continue to grow. I can't imagine why this can't be replaced with something better. Depends on your perspective you know?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Rabbit Hash on September 21, 2015, 12:35:21 PM
Sorry @TroyEros I'll ferevntly disagree based on the grounds that nobody is trying to compare the buildings, just the attitude.  Besides, it looks like there are a few hand-lain bricks on Terrace.  Perhaps you should research some of the original design details and interiors of this building.  There's alot of it online.

Someone needs to save this building.  It's worth keeping.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on September 21, 2015, 12:37:07 PM
You sound precisely like the people he's mentioning who fired up the bulldozers to demolish the West End. Point is, the Terrace Plaza has some fantastic period detailing and design choices and is absolutely capable of standing shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the historic architecture in the city. Modernism =/= crap.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on September 21, 2015, 12:49:01 PM
You have to be delusional if you honestly think that the Terrace Plaza building stands shoulder to shoulder to any building in OTR.

 One is built with detail and intricacy and pure labor from the mid to late 1800's by our German forefathers, built from hand brick by brick.

The other, looks like modernistic crap.

And would it be replaced it with anything better? If you belive that Cincinnati is still doomed and will continue to be nothing more than empty lot-ville, than sure, probably not.

 But I on the other hand think the urban core is growing and is on the uptick, and the demand in housing will continue to grow. I can't imagine why this can't be replaced with something better. Depends on your perspective you know?

I was alluding to the fact that people once viewed the Italianate buildings that fill Cincinnati as ugly and expendable, much like you view Modernist buildings today. In 50 years when there are few Modern buildings left, people will look back and wonder why we let it happen again.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ryanlammi on September 21, 2015, 12:58:17 PM
Oh and based on my comment earlier, you might think I would be in favor of demolishing it, but I was just stating that this building will probably never reach a wide level of adoration. There has to be a solution to the huge blank wall that kills the street's vibe though.

I understand some people will hate the suggestion, but activating that wall is really important. A large video board doesn't seem to make any sense. It's a pretty narrow street with no public plaza nearby for people to see it.

I don't know if "activating" means putting up a mural, adding texture, adding a video board, or what. I'm sure someone could come up with something truly creative to use the solid brick wall for. But it shouldn't just remain that plain brick.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on September 21, 2015, 01:03:10 PM
I really DO believe it will reach that level of adoration though. There's no reason to think that modernism will just break the cycle that essentially all architecture goes through. Hell, even brutalism is starting to see recognition for its values, as obnoxious as those buildings usually are.

The first things that would need to happen with the base are renovation of the ground level and reintroduction of the second story glass that was bricked in later on the Vine Street half of the building. I can imagine a handful of things that could activate the base but would probably piss off preservationists. I'm a what I refer to as a lightweight preservationist meaning that I believe historic buildings should be saved, but don't think things need to be perfectly preserved. The tower portion can operate mostly as it did so I think it should remain mostly the same, but doing something like punching key holes into the base or installing a living wall system could be good ways of preserving the building while softening the harshness of the base which is not good from an urbanist standpoint.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on September 21, 2015, 01:04:19 PM
I think this is a much better representation of the building.  Its deterioration has nothing to do with how its perceived (in fact it doesn't really look all that deteriorated on the outside).  https://goo.gl/maps/RkesMTkPgxt

Those overhead or distant views that you usually see from large projects like this are a red flag because it indicates that the building doesn't look that good from ground level.  Even though this building fronts the sidewalk and has first-floor retail, the overwhelming majority of what you see is a monolithic blank brick wall.  It's so massive that it looks like it's crushing the ground floor retail that's already too short to begin with.  While the Vine and Race facades are at least tolerable due to their limited frontage, there's nothing about the 6th Street facade that isn't oppressive and monotonous.  I won't say that's a 100% objective analysis, but it's by no means subjective either.  The polar opposite of high Victorian gaudiness isn't automatically the best design solution. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: TheCOV on September 21, 2015, 01:04:22 PM
I have to agree with others here, Troy.  I gather you are younger by some of your posts, and that's no problem. but you may not be old enough to have a fully developed point of view on the subject that can only come with time.

This is a very significant structure, and is even more so considering how far-reaching it was when it was constructed, and that its designer, Natalie De Bloise, was equally so at the time.

It is foolish to think we could replace this building with something better.  Our track record in that area speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on September 21, 2015, 01:07:57 PM
I have to agree with others here, Troy.  I gather you are younger by some of your posts, and that's no problem. but you may not be old enough to have a fully developed point of view on the subject that can only come with time.

That's a very condescending statement. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on September 21, 2015, 01:34:47 PM
^Seconded.

I know I'm younger than Troy by at least a decade from hints he has dropped about when he grew, his age, etc. Unless someone is architecturally trained or has had a passion for it for a long time it wouldn't be something I'd expect the general public to be well versed in just like I'm not well versed in other areas that I've never taken an interest in.

This building is experienced by the pedestrian quite poorly and always will be unless something dramatic happens to the base to change that. And I think that's necessary. Which would mean historic preservation tax credits won't be able to be used. Which means it will either continue being a massive blank base or someone with more money/vision will need to take over. I'm hoping for the latter.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on September 21, 2015, 01:37:56 PM
I think this is a much better representation of the building.  Its deterioration has nothing to do with how its perceived (in fact it doesn't really look all that deteriorated on the outside).  https://goo.gl/maps/RkesMTkPgxt

Those overhead or distant views that you usually see from large projects like this are a red flag because it indicates that the building doesn't look that good from ground level.  Even though this building fronts the sidewalk and has first-floor retail, the overwhelming majority of what you see is a monolithic blank brick wall.  It's so massive that it looks like it's crushing the ground floor retail that's already too short to begin with.  While the Vine and Race facades are at least tolerable due to their limited frontage, there's nothing about the 6th Street facade that isn't oppressive and monotonous.  I won't say that's a 100% objective analysis, but it's by no means subjective either.  The polar opposite of high Victorian gaudiness isn't automatically the best design solution. 

But even in that streetview, you're looking up at the building from across the street. The interaction with the sidewalk adjacent the building is fine. I always like looking into the windows of Batsakes and Wendel's (and similarly, The Chong in a less exciting Modern facade down the street). I think simply reopening the second floor levels, occupying the storefronts, and eliminating the auto drop off area would do wonders for the streetscape. As for 6th street, I don't think the opressiveness and monotony are negatives. Department stores wanted to be huge, windowless buildings, why pretend? The issue we're faced with now is troublesome, though - we are tasked with constantly finding uses for buildings that require windowless expanses. The Terrace Plaza missed the boat with the casino, but there are other uses, such as movie theaters, that could still have some potential.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: TheCOV on September 21, 2015, 02:06:23 PM
I have to agree with others here, Troy.  I gather you are younger by some of your posts, and that's no problem. but you may not be old enough to have a fully developed point of view on the subject that can only come with time.

That's a very condescending statement. 

I meant no offense, and stated such in the post.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: TheCOV on September 21, 2015, 02:08:37 PM
I think this is a much better representation of the building.  Its deterioration has nothing to do with how its perceived (in fact it doesn't really look all that deteriorated on the outside).  https://goo.gl/maps/RkesMTkPgxt

Those overhead or distant views that you usually see from large projects like this are a red flag because it indicates that the building doesn't look that good from ground level.  Even though this building fronts the sidewalk and has first-floor retail, the overwhelming majority of what you see is a monolithic blank brick wall.  It's so massive that it looks like it's crushing the ground floor retail that's already too short to begin with.  While the Vine and Race facades are at least tolerable due to their limited frontage, there's nothing about the 6th Street facade that isn't oppressive and monotonous.  I won't say that's a 100% objective analysis, but it's by no means subjective either.  The polar opposite of high Victorian gaudiness isn't automatically the best design solution. 

But even in that streetview, you're looking up at the building from across the street. The interaction with the sidewalk adjacent the building is fine. I always like looking into the windows of Batsakes and Wendel's (and similarly, The Chong in a less exciting Modern facade down the street). I think simply reopening the second floor levels, occupying the storefronts, and eliminating the auto drop off area would do wonders for the streetscape. As for 6th street, I don't think the opressiveness and monotony are negatives. Department stores wanted to be huge, windowless buildings, why pretend? The issue we're faced with now is troublesome, though - we are tasked with constantly finding uses for buildings that require windowless expanses. The Terrace Plaza missed the boat with the casino, but there are other uses, such as movie theaters, that could still have some potential.

It would be difficult to get hardcore preservationists on board, but could the base be opened up in a similar fashion as to what's been done at the 580 building just a few blocks east?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: taestell on September 21, 2015, 02:13:27 PM
A call center is going into the mostly windowless Elder Beerman building in Hamilton. I haven't seen any renderings so I'm not sure if they're going to open it up or leave it windowless.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ink on September 21, 2015, 02:47:53 PM
^They have added windows to Elder Beerman in Hamilton.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: chinkley on September 21, 2015, 03:56:51 PM
Funny how I specifically noticed this building on my walk to work this morning, and here it is in the news!

There are multiple uses that I can think of that don't require opening windows in the lower half of the building: movie theatre (as others have said), grocery store, a couple very large conference centers / presentation stage / auditorium. There is good access on the Race St side for moving large amounts of stuff like food.

A large mural or two on the 6th St side would also do much to relieve the monotony of the current blank wall.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ryanlammi on September 21, 2015, 04:16:35 PM
I think the corner of 6th and Vine could have a lard wrap around video board and it wouldn't be too bad.

But I'm imagining it only going as far on 6th as it goes on Vine (much shorter side). That would probably be more of an ad than a public engagement thing, but could be used on occasion for something bigger/better. Perhaps a video board only on the Vine Street side to avoid shining large amounts of light at a building that is occupied on 6th. Across the street from Vine is a parking garage and office building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on September 21, 2015, 04:23:24 PM
They probably have a large marijuana growing operation going on inside this thing.  Hiding it in plain sight.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thebillshark on September 21, 2015, 06:35:16 PM
When I look at that base I can't really think about what to do with it that wouldn't be a ridiculous proposition. Such as replacing a large part of the brick wall with glass for a giant fish tank. Or taking out all the intermediary floors and having a giant velodrome or skate park.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Jimmy_James on September 21, 2015, 09:39:55 PM
Funny how I specifically noticed this building on my walk to work this morning, and here it is in the news!

There are multiple uses that I can think of that don't require opening windows in the lower half of the building: movie theatre (as others have said), grocery store, a couple very large conference centers / presentation stage / auditorium. There is good access on the Race St side for moving large amounts of stuff like food.

A large mural or two on the 6th St side would also do much to relieve the monotony of the current blank wall.

Agreed.  There are a variety of options that don't require windows which might be viable, depending on the details and condition of the structure.  Just off the top of my head:

1) department store
2) grocery store
3) call center
4) server farm
5) storage units
6) spa: message rooms, saunas, steam rooms, hot tubs, pools, etc.
7) bowling alley
8) movie theater
9) performance stage/theater
10) strip/burlesque club
11) sports bar
12) arcade
13) gym: basketball, volleyball, racquetball, etc.
14) parking garage
15) TV studio
16) kitchen
17) culinary school
18) roller rink
19) ice rink
20) mall
21) museum
22) casino, if Ohio eventually allows another one downtown.
23) Do nothing.  Shore it up and wall it off.  Pretend it isn't there and just utilize the storefronts below and hotel above.

However, as much as I love Artworks, I feel that adding a mural to this structure would be a mistake.  For better or worse, it was intended to be a huge blank wall.  That's different than the other blank walls that exist around town because an adjoining building was demoed or by chance.  Dressing it up with a mural or a TV or by punching windows into it ignores the history of the structure and diminishes it.  Also, Ram23 is right about the building working just fine at street level for pedestrians on its side of the street, and about reopening the second story windows.  No need to demolish an interesting structure.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on September 22, 2015, 10:24:25 AM
I personally feel that people could be served better by something else in its place. I know this is an early example of an architectural style, and has significance therein, but is it actually good design?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on September 22, 2015, 10:59:58 AM
I personally feel that people could be served better by something else in its place. I know this is an early example of an architectural style, and has significance therein, but is it actually good design?

Building something with no windows because they assumed that the space would always be a department store that didn't want windows was a mistake.  Buildings must be able to serve different uses if they expect to survive for hundreds of years. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on September 22, 2015, 11:07:12 AM
That's not why that happened though. It happened because at that point in time the street was viewed as dirty and the idea of being fully cut off from it was seen as desirable. We very quickly learned that was a mistake, but it wasn't just because it was thought it was going to be a department store forever.

It's the same reason they elevated the hotel spaces so high off the street. They wanted to float above the filth of the city essentially.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thebillshark on September 23, 2015, 05:29:37 PM
I walked passed the other night, and from the north side of 6th street, the thing is that massive blank wall is incredibly forboding. It is also incredibly dark (although that may be because the building is mostly abandoned.) All the interesting features of the hotel can only be viewed from above. This is weird but I also feel like the sheer equal-and-opposite mass of it keeps me from looking up at the Cincinnatian Hotel, which is detailed and interesting, when on Vine south of 6th St.  I understand that the Terrace Hotel is a landmark but it does seem to have some legitimate urban issues with it, even if activated at street level. Right now it creates a low activity zone between Vine and 84.91.

I would be for activating the wall in some way, taking advantage of the fact it is a massive blank wall. Rock it if we're going to keep it. Perhaps do a permanent block long  Lumenocity style projection show of P&G and Macy's commercials. If that's not practical at least put up video boards on the corners as Ryan suggested. It would certainly give that area (the heart of our downtown) more of a Times Square or Shibuya feel to it. May help with Race St. retail corridor too.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thebillshark on September 23, 2015, 06:28:00 PM
Actually I really like the idea of a giant video board on the 6th and Vine corner. You'd be able to see it all the way down 6th St. including by the CAC, Aronoff and all the fancy restaurants. Would feel very big city.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on September 23, 2015, 06:52:33 PM
Wouldn't even need a permanent video screen (or permission of the owners  :wink) to add some interest to that corner if i've learned anything from Luminosity.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on September 23, 2015, 06:54:39 PM
Maybe the Miro that used to be inside can be projected onto the exterior as a moving mobile?? We can do it!!!! Not me necessarily, but this city has the talent to.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on September 23, 2015, 06:57:25 PM
Just looked at it again for the first time in a while, that moving would be trippy.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thebillshark on November 30, 2015, 10:03:17 PM
Something needs to be done with this building. Right now it is really masking the recovery of economic activity in the CBD (or unmasking the fragility of the recovery?) The area around 6th and Walnut has a lot of high end activity going on, and this building creates a dead zone barrier that makes that activity seem like an island. If you think only about the parts of the building (the three stores) that are active and imagine away the rest, it would look like a small low density strip mall in the heart of downtown.

This concept seems interesting for the Terrace Plaza: http://m.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/30/craft-brewery-theater-scouting-cincinnati-for.html

But the Terrace Plaza probably does not meet that business's selection criteria because it's within three miles of the theater at Newport on the Levee. (It also seems to be looking for an auto-oriented location? Hope people are using designated drivers.) Interestingly enough I think a location as part of a mixed use development along Liberty St. or Central Parkway might be far enough away from the Levee to qualify.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thebillshark on December 01, 2015, 05:09:11 AM
What if we projected a giant horizontal game of Plinko on the side of the building where the puck starts at 6th and Vine and "falls" towards slots located at 6th and Race. It would definitely engage passerbys (but might encourage street gambling too.) Maybe you could add some kind of smartphone interaction where you could win promotional prizes from local companies.

if this idea seems out there, it's because the building was designed to do something (stand apart from the street) that's the direct opposite of our ideas about urbanism, so it's going to take a lot of creativity to reconcile this! Definitely not as easy as saying "oh we'll make it mixed use with upper story residential and ground floor office/retail" like most of our historic buildings lend themselves to.

EDIT: the Plinko idea may sound dumb but I bet it would be super popular with tourists and visitors, we need to think of ways to turn this building from a liability to an opportunity.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on December 02, 2015, 08:04:56 AM
^ You could throw in an occasional ad from sponsors in order to pay for the projection. It'd be like a scene out of Blade Runner, which is fine by me.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on December 02, 2015, 08:10:11 AM
Projections are definitely an interesting choice, and one I'd support. It doesn't necessarily help humanize it during the day, but a combination of some simple architectural changes in conjunction with something as Bill described could make a world of difference. I still think simply opening up the entire second floor to be glass would be enough to bring the scale down to a more reasonable size without completely destroying the historic modernist nature of the building. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would strike a balance between preservation and creating an urban asset (something this building has never been).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on February 16, 2016, 02:55:51 PM
Legal proceedings regarding the Terrace Plaza Hotel: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2016/02/16/judge-could-soon-approve-terrace-plaza-sale/80446258/

Quote
The historic Terrace Plaza Hotel in Downtown Cincinnati may be sold soon if a plan from the property's court-appointed receiver is approved.

Prodigy Properties wants Judge Steven Martin to accept a $7 million bid from Madison Realty Investments on the 15 W. Sixth St. property, according to a report filed in the Hamilton County Court of Common Pleas. Jeff Lane, a Columbia Township-based principal of Prodigy Properties, said no one has filed to challenge the sale and it was the only bid obtained on the property.

A court hearing to confirm the sale is scheduled Feb. 26.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ucgrady on March 14, 2016, 12:15:52 PM
 Not that it means anything, but there have been people walking around and inspecting the roof all day. A couple guys in hard hats hanging from the mechanical structure, a couple of suits taking pictures and they have been in and out all day. Hopefully this means someone is buying it (for redevelopment and not demolition...)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: CincyMan on March 14, 2016, 09:47:03 PM
^ Looks like a small makeshift office has been set up as well. Here's hoping for some more good news for downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: lobanio0 on April 21, 2016, 04:10:46 PM
Does anyone know the bizarre change that occurred? 
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/21/battle-over-downtowns-former-terrace-plaza-hotel.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thebillshark on April 21, 2016, 04:40:52 PM
Nothing too bizarre IMO. One of the owners went in at night and changed the locks.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 27, 2016, 10:49:05 AM
Looks like there is a decision, does anyone have full access to the site?

EXCLUSIVE: U.S. bankruptcy judge rules in former Terrace Plaza hotel case
Apr 27, 2016, 12:39pm EDT
Tom Demeropolis
Senior Staff Reporter
Cincinnati Business Courier



A U.S. bankruptcy judge has ruled in the battle over the former Terrace Plaza hotel in downtown Cincinnati.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/27/u-s-bankruptcy-judge-rules-in-former-terrace-plaza.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/27/u-s-bankruptcy-judge-rules-in-former-terrace-plaza.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: joshknut on April 27, 2016, 10:55:12 AM
Anyone behind the paywall want to let us know what the outcome was?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: taestell on April 27, 2016, 11:28:57 AM
Quote
Beth Buchanan, U.S. Bankruptcy judge for the Southern District of Ohio, ruled April 26 that a receivership sale of the 20-story building at 15 W. Sixth St. can move forward in Hamilton County Commons Pleas Court. A confirmation of that sale is scheduled for April 28 in front of Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Steven Martin.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Toledophisher on April 27, 2016, 11:34:31 AM
So does anyone know what that means in terms of potential redevelopment?  Sorry, I need to get access to Biz Journals, badly.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: IAGuy39 on April 27, 2016, 12:54:38 PM
On this article all it really says is that they are allowed to sell it in a bankruptucy sale, so these owners are getting out of it.

Hopefully whoever buys it is a comitted developer with a solid plan.  But until it is sold and to whom, hard to tell what will happen
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Caseyc on April 27, 2016, 01:01:50 PM
This is a good thing. The property was sold in the state receivership to a qualified buyer who bought the debt held by the partners, who were shady,and had their own problematic bankruptcy case. So the Bankruptcy Court had to first bless this and now it can proceed in the receivership.  My understanding is that the future owners have an appreciation for the history of the Terrace Plaza and are looking to renovate it accordingly.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on April 27, 2016, 01:15:53 PM
The Business Courier has a neat slideshow of photos of the interior of the building: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/27/get-a-look-inside-the-former-terrace-plaza-hotel.html

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 27, 2016, 02:13:46 PM
Does anyone recall if this building has any on-site parking?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: JYP on April 27, 2016, 02:20:23 PM
Does anyone recall if this building has any on-site parking?

No onsite parking. Just the valet for the hotel.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ink on April 27, 2016, 02:24:18 PM
I wonder if you could adapt the podium (starting with the third floor) into parking. No windows required for that use.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on April 27, 2016, 02:34:35 PM
I could see that working. Maybe they could even work out a deal with to use that big curb cut on Race (is that for Macy's?) so we wouldn't need another.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on April 27, 2016, 02:51:07 PM
This photo of the office floor shows a pretty wide open layout with a lot of space between the columns, which makes it seem like it'd be pretty flexible. But I have no idea if the structure can support the weight of a floor full of cars.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on April 27, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Fun fact, the load conditions one designs for in a parking garage are less than office floors generally. Filing cabinets, bookcases, desks, etc. are all very heavy. Even moreso than a car typically is on a per-square-foot basis.

That being said, I don't know if that same statement holds true for something of this age and how it compares to modern standards of construction of parking garages, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was more than capable of handling the load of a parking garage.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on April 27, 2016, 03:02:29 PM
Fun fact, the load conditions one designs for in a parking garage are less than office floors generally. Filing cabinets, bookcases, desks, etc. are all very heavy. Even moreso than a car typically is on a per-square-foot basis.

That being said, I don't know if that same statement holds true for something of this age and how it compares to modern standards of construction of parking garages, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was more than capable of handling the load of a parking garage.

Whoa! I had no idea. Very interesting!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: IAGuy39 on April 27, 2016, 03:05:24 PM
I was just thinking that same thing.  We moved into this old office which is actually an old house in E. Walnut Hills and it was a law office and they left all their law books on the second and third floors along with desks, etc.  You would not believe how heavy all those law books were when we moved them.  I think I broke my back doing it almost, had to use a cart to wheel them down the stairs.  It was about 50 boxes worth and I swear each box was 100 lbs. at least.  Then you add in as well we got all these filing cabinets and they are so flipping heavy, and to think in a big office setting that is fairly densely packed, I can't imagine the weight some floors have in those office towers downtown.

All that said, that would be great if a really good developer lands this and let's hope they are creative and put something forward that is really neat.

If worst comes to it, IMO, you can always place a call center type office on that blank landing they make up some video boards or something unique like murals on the big brick walls.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on April 27, 2016, 04:21:30 PM
Something as simple as building out a frame (to leave the brick intact as to appease historic conservation standards which I'd be in support of) that has a surface that you could hire ArtWorks to create a mural on and you've taken an uncomfortable blank space and turned it into something that would be a draw for the public to go see since it would be such a massive piece of artwork.

I still think the second floor should be opened up though to create a double height commercial space since the ground level is uncomfortably short. Modernizing the storefront, creating a gigantic mural that wraps three sides of the base, creating a unique apartment complex in the tower, and opening the rooftop/bar thing (the circular element) to the public would be an ideal situation in my mind. The base could either house offices or a garage and it would work either way.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on April 27, 2016, 06:41:37 PM
Fun fact, the load conditions one designs for in a parking garage are less than office floors generally. Filing cabinets, bookcases, desks, etc. are all very heavy. Even moreso than a car typically is on a per-square-foot basis.

That being said, I don't know if that same statement holds true for something of this age and how it compares to modern standards of construction of parking garages, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was more than capable of handling the load of a parking garage.

Whoa! I had no idea. Very interesting!

It goes against what you'd expect but makes sense when you think about it. As a "for instance" I drove a 2005 Hyundai Sonata for a couple years during grad school which takes up 95 square feet of space. It weighed 3,400 pounds empty. That's 35.8 lbs/square foot.

I currently own about 100 books, the largest of which weighs 12 pounds (it's a tad large) but it's pretty easy to see how quickly just the weight of something like books can easily surpass 35.8 lbs/square foot.

I just looked up a typical 4 foot tall filing cabinet with a footprint that's 1.8 square feet and it has a holding capacity of 68 lb.s per drawer times 4 drawers equals 151 lbs/square foot just for stuff in it. That doesn't even include the weight of the cabinet itself. A room with the dimensions of a typical parking space (10' x 20') with these lined up could potentially be holding nearly 4.5 tons of dead weight at any point in addition to the weight of people, accessories, etc.

It's crazy how heavy offices really are. Very unexpected but completely logical when you actually look into how much all that crap weighs.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on April 27, 2016, 06:59:06 PM
Yep, the live load for a parking garage is just 40 lbs/sq ft (PSF).  Of course there's pretty high concentrated load factors as well since the weight of a car is sitting on four contact patches that are only about six inches square.  Offices and residential uses are also in the 30-50 PSF range, but corridors, lobbies, or any sort of assembly space easily doubles those numbers.  I recently designed an outdoor deck for a commercial assembly use (think wedding receptions, dances, etc.) and there we used a 150 PSF live load, but even then it's still just 2x10 joists at 12" on center over a 13' span.  Nothing crazy by any stretch of the imagination there. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on April 27, 2016, 07:16:15 PM
This is precisely why I see notes from engineers when we ask them to look over stuff and question some of their input for really typical construction situations. In a house with pretty average sized rooms it seems unnecessary to ever really need 2x12s. I worked on a project recently where a Dining Room was extended 2'-6" out onto two piers and when the engineer looked over everything he suggested 2x10 floor and ceiling joists at 12" o.c. max. It felt like such overkill for something that could easily be handled by much smaller lumber with a typical spacing of 16".
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on April 27, 2016, 07:29:11 PM
Cantilevers do complicate things especially with wood construction, but that does sound excessive.  The other things is that you need the depth of a 2x12 to get the required R-38 roof insulation in our climate.  Closed-cell foam, or rigid foam above the roof deck, is the only way to get that R-value in less than that depth.  Also, anything less than a 2x10 needs a fire barrier, which can be a problem in a basement if you're trying to save money by not finishing it. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: OCtoCincy on May 04, 2016, 01:39:04 PM
If you haven't read @Caseyc's piece from 2009 on the Terrace you should.
http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thomasbw on May 04, 2016, 02:12:31 PM
If you haven't read @Caseyc's piece from 2009 on the Terrace you should.
http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx

The inimitable P. Casey Coston
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on May 13, 2016, 10:20:03 AM
A little different perspective than the usual thanks to a condo being for sale in this building.  Very 'Ship-like' as it sails upstream on 6th street.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: chinkley on May 13, 2016, 11:00:14 AM
A little different perspective than the usual thanks to a condo being for sale in this building.  Very 'Ship-like' as it sails upstream 6th street.

Beautiful! The restaurant at the top must have some killer views, and the terrace above the hotel proper would offer a great place to spend time as well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on May 13, 2016, 11:06:48 AM
Just curious but are there windows on the south side? If so I wonder if that has had an effect on the redevlopement, being half of the hotel would get very little sunlight and have views of a blank wall.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on May 13, 2016, 11:37:50 AM
^ Yeah, there are rooms on the south side as well, though not as many as the north because the elevator core is on the south wall.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on May 13, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
Just curious but are there windows on the south side? If so I wonder if that has had an effect on the redevlopement, being half of the hotel would get very little sunlight and have views of a blank wall.

Yep there are, though towards the front they face a blank wall. The further west ones are unobstructed. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cincinnati,+OH/@39.099616,-84.5176749,193a,20y,47.82h,69.54t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x884051b1de3821f9:0x69fb7e8be4c09317!8m2!3d39.1031182!4d-84.5120196
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on May 13, 2016, 11:43:24 AM
They actually do have windows on most (but not all) of the south side. The west half of the south side does has windows with unimpeded views. And on the east half of the south side, the upper tower "steps back" a bit from the base, allowing those units to still have some light and views towards Vine St. Certainly not the best views, but there will be light. There is a portion in the middle of the building that doesn't have windows, but I think that might be used for mechanicals and/or elevators.

Here's a view, courtesy of Auditor's website of the south west side:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AbcKjg9Gp_S56vCmD9pei-M9oJB_ro9qWo2W9yvq6QXp7rwy-SC2spCF5rj031EryPuDRCsjgZmGUg=w912-h794-no)

Here's a view, courtesy of Google Earth from the south east side:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SKxlhRWEMkGEBw7_OXY4EEfjkoHj1ZmVUVotBk0-TCwt-lyEam36uFh4U1a-yRCXNidgKq9eXxE9sQ=w530-h624-no)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: nati streets on May 13, 2016, 12:43:50 PM
From a quick count from google images, just the southeast side looks obstructed. So about 20 rooms with obstructed views.

Would be great for an suspended sculpture/art commission to enliven the vertical volume of the alley and provide privacy/screening. Or... just reprogram 20 of the rooms to provide lounges or upgraded amenities at that part of the floor...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: JYP on May 13, 2016, 12:49:47 PM
(http://www.cincinnativiews.net/images-3/Buildings.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Rabbit Hash on May 13, 2016, 12:57:45 PM
Another view, perhaps the best to get a feel for the location of the windows:

(https://www.fulltable.com/vts/f/fortune/photos/stoller/stl/cn/SH221.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on May 13, 2016, 01:01:32 PM
great photo @JYP

Based on that photo, I actually don't think they had to brick in any windows when the Huntington tower went up.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on May 13, 2016, 01:15:46 PM
Never noticed that little leg that sticks out. Kind of crazy, it appears that there was a whole street front of businesses that was removed when they built the Macy's.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on May 13, 2016, 01:26:01 PM
In the photo posted by @Rabbit Hash, does it say "PENNEYS" on the west side of the building? I knew it had housed a Bond department store, but it's neat to see that JC Penney was also there at the same time. I wonder how the building was split up between Bond and JC Penney. Was it split by floor or did they share the same floors, split east/west?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: JYP on May 13, 2016, 01:29:46 PM
Bond had two floors along Vine and Penny's had the Race corner. The valet entrance on 6th Street for the hotel is not original to the building and used to be more retail space.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thebillshark on June 16, 2016, 05:23:20 AM
With the Cincinnati Gardens purchased and seemingly headed for demo by the Port Authority, would it be possible for the base of the Terrace Plaza to be renovated to include an ice rink and/or roller derby track? Or would structural load-bearing columns get in the way? This would really mix up the uses downtown which would be good for vibrancy (whether it's economically viable or not is a different story...)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on June 16, 2016, 06:05:13 AM
With the Cincinnati Gardens purchased and seemingly headed for demo by the Port Authority, would it be possible for the base of the Terrace Plaza to be renovated to include an ice rink and/or roller derby track? Or would structural load-bearing columns get in the way? This would really mix up the uses downtown which would be good for vibrancy (whether it's economically viable or not is a different story...)

There definitely are load-bearing columns. An arena needs clear spans, which usually means a light roof with nothing built above.

I think the best use for a building like that would be large-format retail which typically doesn't want windows anyways. Target would be my first choice, though I doubt they see Cincinnati's downtown as big enough yet.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: IAGuy39 on June 16, 2016, 06:47:15 AM
With the Cincinnati Gardens purchased and seemingly headed for demo by the Port Authority, would it be possible for the base of the Terrace Plaza to be renovated to include an ice rink and/or roller derby track? Or would structural load-bearing columns get in the way? This would really mix up the uses downtown which would be good for vibrancy (whether it's economically viable or not is a different story...)

There definitely are load-bearing columns. An arena needs clear spans, which usually means a light roof with nothing built above.

I think the best use for a building like that would be large-format retail which typically doesn't want windows anyways. Target would be my first choice, though I doubt they see Cincinnati's downtown as big enough yet.


Re: Target - I had read on the Business Courier that Oscar Bodella and other leaders had talks with Target at the Las Vegas Retail? Convention.  I think in the next 3 years, with all the new, big projects below 5th street taking shape, when those residents move in, we will be ready.  That's adding many, many new people to the urban core with large incomes.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on June 16, 2016, 07:07:14 AM
With the Cincinnati Gardens purchased and seemingly headed for demo by the Port Authority, would it be possible for the base of the Terrace Plaza to be renovated to include an ice rink and/or roller derby track? Or would structural load-bearing columns get in the way? This would really mix up the uses downtown which would be good for vibrancy (whether it's economically viable or not is a different story...)

There definitely are load-bearing columns. An arena needs clear spans, which usually means a light roof with nothing built above.

I think the best use for a building like that would be large-format retail which typically doesn't want windows anyways. Target would be my first choice, though I doubt they see Cincinnati's downtown as big enough yet.


Re: Target - I had read on the Business Courier that Oscar Bodella and other leaders had talks with Target at the Las Vegas Retail? Convention.  I think in the next 3 years, with all the new, big projects below 5th street taking shape, when those residents move in, we will be ready.  That's adding many, many new people to the urban core with large incomes.

Yeah... perhaps in 3 years. If you look at where Target is opening new stores now... the cities are all much larger/richer than Cincinnati.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 16, 2016, 07:34:19 AM
People really care about going to Target this much?  How many pots and pans do people need?  I've been in one maybe twice in my life. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ryanlammi on June 16, 2016, 07:40:23 AM
A lot of people go to Target weekly. I don't get it, but not everyone is you or me.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: chinkley on June 16, 2016, 07:54:29 AM
target has also branched into food, so that would be a nice bonus to a downtown store.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on June 16, 2016, 08:36:21 AM
The reason I like the idea of Target for that spot is that they have shown more willingness to be flexible on the size/layout of their urban stores, often occupying multiple floors where other retailers seem hellbent on single-floor layouts:

https://corporate.target.com/article/2015/02/target-store-openings

To date, the urban Targets have been in areas with much higher population than Cincinnati, so I'm not expecting this to happen any time soon.

Honestly, I think the mostly likely case will be that several of those floors get repurposed for parking. The building has a "T shape" extension towards the south. Perhaps they could put the ramps in that extension, and maintain the level floors for parking.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: crisdux on June 16, 2016, 02:12:27 PM
People really care about going to Target this much?  How many pots and pans do people need?  I've been in one maybe twice in my life.

t.j. maxx leaving left a big hole for me in terms of downtown shopping options when it left. It was perfect for quick/cheap clothing, kitchen and bathroom items. I know a lot of my fourth street neighbors felt the same way. Target would definitely be able to fill the void.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: taestell on June 16, 2016, 03:26:35 PM
People really care about going to Target this much?  How many pots and pans do people need?  I've been in one maybe twice in my life.

Target is much more along the lines of a Walmart or Meijer competitor. Clothes, electronics, home supplies, in addition to the fact that they added grocery items to all of their Cincinnati locations about 5 years ago.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on June 16, 2016, 05:19:36 PM
I just moved to Brooklyn yesterday morning. I live a few stops away from the Atlantic Avenue Target store (next to Barclays Center) and ran there to get a shower curtain, some cleaning supplies, a rubbish bin, and an air mattress. It was a 10 minute shopping trip. It's good for those types of things since they sell a wide variety and they're located in an urban area directly above a massive subway stop and is priced decently. I'm not going to go there everyday, but they sell things I'd have to go seek out in a more long-winded nature (like an air mattress, who the hell knows what small store somewhere in Brooklyn sells those).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 13, 2016, 09:20:16 PM
Well if they can cut all those holes in the 580 Building's brick then they could do the same for the useless Terrace Plaza base. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Caseyc on July 14, 2016, 12:30:48 PM
Well if they can cut all those holes in the 580 Building's brick then they could do the same for the useless Terrace Plaza base. 
  The problem there is that altering the brick "pedestal" will jeopardize historic tax credits. I'm mean, it's pretty much a given based on what I have heard.  That said, however, plans for Terrace Plaza are in the works.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on July 15, 2016, 09:57:14 AM
Terrace Plaza should be torn down. Dunno why people glorify that structure, it was a shopping center, all the art has been removed. It would be like trying to preserve an abandoned Ikea, just why??
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: TroyEros on July 15, 2016, 11:27:06 AM
Terrace Plaza should be torn down. Dunno why people glorify that structure, it was a shopping center, all the art has been removed. It would be like trying to preserve an abandoned Ikea, just why??

Probably because even in it's current lack luster state, the chances of us actually replacing the empty lot (assuming it becomes demolished) will probably take decades knowing the rate of our city. Also, the infill that replaces it will probably look 10x worse, than the current product. The quality of infill Architecture, especially in our core, is god awful.


Also a giant, colorful, art mural on one side of the wall, and a video screen that's time square like, with news updates/etc can really take those 2 blank walls and really make that building so much more inviting. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: neilworms on July 15, 2016, 11:42:50 AM
It's glorified because of how early it was built in that style it was one of the earliest modernist skyscrapers in the country and designed by well regarded architect. I'm no fan of modernism but if there are examples of this style that should be preserved this is it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Yves Behar on July 16, 2016, 01:53:52 PM
Terrace Plaza should be torn down. Dunno why people glorify that structure, it was a shopping center, all the art has been removed. It would be like trying to preserve an abandoned Ikea, just why??

Probably because even in it's current lack luster state, the chances of us actually replacing the empty lot (assuming it becomes demolished) will probably take decades knowing the rate of our city. Also, the infill that replaces it will probably look 10x worse, than the current product. The quality of infill Architecture, especially in our core, is god awful.


Also a giant, colorful, art mural on one side of the wall, and a video screen that's time square like, with news updates/etc can really take those 2 blank walls and really make that building so much more inviting.

I dunno, I've always heard people throw out the idea of a gian mural or video screen and I just think that would look tacky. It's also sort of the first thing that anyone would think of. The idea of cutting holes for windows would be more appealing to me.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Jimmy_James on July 17, 2016, 05:05:20 PM
^Leave the exterior alone. It's historic, so just get over how it looks to your modern eyes. Install "virtual windows" around the interior of the pedestal (basically vertical HDTVs, each hooked up to a fiberoptic video camera poking through the brick directly behind it). That would make it more realistic as office space. 

The hotel above could be very interesting if restored, and that rooftop space above the pedestal could be an amazing rooftop bar/restaurant. Also, there's a thread for the terrace plaza...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on July 17, 2016, 06:23:04 PM
^ Yeah, this is getting off topic for this thread, but the real solution for Terrace Plaza isn't to open it up like 580, but to reset it to its original setup which had a much better street level presence, and actually had second story windows on the northeast corner. Architects and other people on this board constantly look up as they're walking around and judge buildings but the truth is that most people walking around really only pay attention to street level unless there's something above that that is purposefully drawing their attention away. Get rid of the awful valet/parking area and get more glass and street level tenants and it'd be a fine building. The tricky part is finding a tenant for the base that doesn't need windows. Department stores worked perfectly when this was built, but there's no need for downtown department stores today. Find something that works in a downtown setting without windows and the whole problem is solved.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Cincy513 on July 18, 2016, 07:54:42 AM
^Leave the exterior alone. It's historic, so just get over how it looks to your modern eyes. Install "virtual windows" around the interior of the pedestal (basically vertical HDTVs, each hooked up to a fiberoptic video camera poking through the brick directly behind it). That would make it more realistic as office space. 

WTF?  That is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: nati streets on July 18, 2016, 08:23:15 AM
^Leave the exterior alone. It's historic, so just get over how it looks to your modern eyes. Install "virtual windows" around the interior of the pedestal (basically vertical HDTVs, each hooked up to a fiberoptic video camera poking through the brick directly behind it). That would make it more realistic as office space. 

WTF?  That is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.

Expensive and a bit impractical for this application but not unheard of.
http://www.wired.com/2014/02/supersonic-jet-video-windows/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ryanlammi on July 18, 2016, 08:24:32 AM
Moved the discussion of Terrace Plaza from the 580 discussion. Had no relevance there.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ink on July 18, 2016, 09:09:42 AM
^Leave the exterior alone. It's historic, so just get over how it looks to your modern eyes. Install "virtual windows" around the interior of the pedestal (basically vertical HDTVs, each hooked up to a fiberoptic video camera poking through the brick directly behind it). That would make it more realistic as office space. 

WTF?  That is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.

Please watch your tone/word choice. Constructive criticism is fine/encouraged, but let's save the harsher descriptors for ideas that don't come from forum members. :)
Title: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: lobanio0 on August 17, 2016, 06:58:55 PM
So just checked the auditors site, did Terrace Plaza sell to a new owner? Does anyone know their intentions?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/2f1f863766b2593987cb589858a6400d.jpg)[IMG]



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Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Brutus_buckeye on August 17, 2016, 07:55:50 PM
I believe he is the receiver for the building and was court appointed.

He is a local attorney that specializes in such receiverships.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: savadams13 on October 31, 2016, 12:51:38 PM
Terrace Plaza back up for sale. Hopefully someone with deep pockets and/or investors will do something positive for the building.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/10/31/exclusive-former-terrace-plaza-hotel-in-downtown.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 20, 2017, 02:03:34 PM
Former downtown Cincinnati hotel nominated for historic list
Jun 20, 2017, 2:34pm EDT
Tom Demeropolis
Senior Staff Reporter
Cincinnati Business Courier



The former Terrace Plaza Hotel in downtown Cincinnati has been nominated to be listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/20/former-downtown-cincinnati-hotel-nominated-for.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/20/former-downtown-cincinnati-hotel-nominated-for.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 20, 2017, 02:48:58 PM
Well if they can cut all those holes in the 580 Building's brick then they could do the same for the useless Terrace Plaza base. 

Actually, they could grow a forest of medical marijuana in there. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on June 20, 2017, 07:34:30 PM
^ Get that tidbit over to the Rhinegeist guys before they close on that Kahn's lot in Camp Washington. They could put a brewpub on the ground floor and offer tours of the grow op above.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thebillshark on August 04, 2017, 06:42:23 AM
Birkla has a plan to redo the Terrace Plaza Hotel:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/08/04/developer-unveils-bold-plan-for-deteriorating.html

Looks like they want to completely remove the blank brick walls from the bottom portion of it.

I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on August 04, 2017, 07:24:28 AM
Birkla has a plan to redo the Terrace Plaza Hotel:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/08/04/developer-unveils-bold-plan-for-deteriorating.html

Looks like they want to completely remove the blank brick walls from the bottom portion of it.

I'm fine with that.

Yea!!! I love the solid walls because it gives the place the look of a ship sailing down the street but if removing them this makes it a viable project I'm all for it. I just hope they give the owners of Batsakes either a prime spot in the new place or his own building somewhere. That poor fellair has been bumped all over downtown. From the render it looks as if the main entrance has been moved to his current spot facing Vine. What do you all think the options of this plan going through are? Does Birkla have a good track record?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: seicer on August 04, 2017, 07:47:56 AM
(https://media.bizj.us/view/img/10560583/terraceplazafrontpage*750xx1800-1013-0-131.jpg)

Nice!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: osu97gp on August 04, 2017, 07:49:20 AM
Birkla, of Anderson Birkla was the re-developer of the AT580 building on 6th between Main and Walnut.  I've been pleased with how that project turned out, but I'm not an architect.  At the very least they have recent experience with doing something with a large blank wall of brick.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: IAGuy39 on August 04, 2017, 08:00:35 AM
Yes, really exciting news. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: hoerstw on August 04, 2017, 08:05:30 AM
Sounds like many many hoops to jump through before this would be a reality, but nonetheless its great someone is giving it a shot.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: savadams13 on August 04, 2017, 08:10:41 AM
First and foremost I would like to see this get past the historic review board and all the historic building preservation groups. Seems like the design would get held up for awhile with meetings, petitions, holding up the building getting the help it desperately needs.

Second, this building at the moment is falling in on itself as we speak. The last owner that removed the brick around the old water tower enclosure punctured the roof of the hotel. They did not repair it and water/weather has been coming in and down through the hotel tower. The building was gutted of all the existing furniture and finishes so it has that going for it.

The stack course brick work around the old department store/A&TT center is in really bad condition. When we were proposing ideas for the base building, it was common knowledge that you would have to remove large sections of the brick top to bottom, preserve, place back and re-mortar in any areas that work was to be completed.

I do hope something happens with this building sooner than later, but i dont suspect it will happen right away.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmicha on August 04, 2017, 08:29:53 AM
So what's the proposed usage? It's hard to tell from the rendering but it  looks like either entirely residential or entirely hotel. I'd guess based on the developer that it's fully residential.

So Anderson of Anderson+Birkla was a client of mine when I lived in Cincy. He was a stickler for doing things the right way which I really appreciated. It showed through in @580 which I think is of a higher quality of construction than similar apartments.

Hopefully being just Birkla won't change that mindset.

What I find more interesting than opening the base (which is sort of a no brainer to me) is that it appears that the brick will no longer be red. I actually have a feeling that will be the sticking point for preservationists more than the massive blank walls being opened up.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jim uber on August 04, 2017, 08:39:00 AM
^ parking and residential in lower; hotel or more residential in tower (undetermined at this time, according to the article)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: IAGuy39 on August 04, 2017, 08:53:30 AM
I don't like giving too much away because I pay for the Biz Courier but it seems like Birkla is going to side step at least a lot of the historic preservation by not getting historic credits for it because they wouldn't be able to open up the base of the building.  Also the base bricks are supposedly easily removed so I don't think that will be too much of a hurdle.  I honestly don't think the historic preservations will put up too much of a fight because the design and shape of the building will remain the same and how Birkla and the architects want to make it accentuate the modern design, not change it.

It looks like the main hurdles:

Financing
And Financing from the city
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: JYP on August 04, 2017, 09:49:54 AM
Is the Terrace in a historic district? I do not think it is. If it is not then HCB has no jurisdiction. It's also not a designated landmark. And as far as I know being on the National Register of Historic Places doesn't give the HCB any jurisdiction on the building.

If Birkla does pursue historic tax credits then they will likely ask for the building to be declared a landmark by the city. Then HCB would get involved. Aside from that if they get the financing they can do what they please.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Civvik on August 04, 2017, 10:00:13 AM
Thank god. Vine Street needs this!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on August 04, 2017, 10:44:25 AM
Even if a property is listed on the National Register, if you aren't going for tax credits you still have a lot of freedom to do what you want. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: urbanpioneer on August 04, 2017, 12:52:38 PM
I've heard complaints about the building's low ceilings (8') in the sense that the residential market today generally wants at least 9' or 10'.  But with the perennial popularity of mid-century modern interior design, I'd think this wouldn't be a big problem, but I'm just guessing -- maybe it really is.  I doubt if it would be a problem at all if it became a hotel again, with no residential component whatsoever.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: GCrites80s on August 04, 2017, 02:05:13 PM
My mid-century house has 7' ceilings. I had to take out the ceiling fans.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on August 28, 2017, 08:28:52 PM
On August 21, the Terrace Plaza was added to the NPS List of Historic Places: https://www.nps.gov/nr/listings/20170825.htm

Not sure who applied to have it added. If it was the owner, then they probably want to apply for historic tax credits (which will then bring a number of requirements about what can be modified). Would it be possible for somebody other than the owner to apply to have the building listed? I'm curious if a preservation group might have applied to tie the owners hands.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: IAGuy39 on August 29, 2017, 07:58:03 AM
^I don't know if this is correct, or not, but I had thought that the previous owners or possibly the city applied.  Then the new owners came in and bought it and said they wouldn't apply for Historic Tax Credits so they can get working as soon as possible and open up the wall.  That said, maybe they will explore to see if they can use credits and still open up the wall?  It would definitely be worth it to take a look at that, but maybe I am all wrong on this and someone did apply to throw a wrench in it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: nicker66 on August 29, 2017, 08:19:57 AM
From the Business Courier article, it seemed like the new developer was aware that historic tax credits would ruin his plans.  It was the first time I've heard a developer say "I don't want them."  Since the credits are usually worth millions of dollars and only require minimal work or preservation, I guarantee he knows what they would make him preserve and restore and it would drastically alter his proposed renovation to the point where he would bail.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: savadams13 on August 29, 2017, 08:43:47 AM
^I don't know if this is correct, or not, but I had thought that the previous owners or possibly the city applied.  Then the new owners came in and bought it and said they wouldn't apply for Historic Tax Credits so they can get working as soon as possible and open up the wall.  That said, maybe they will explore to see if they can use credits and still open up the wall?  It would definitely be worth it to take a look at that, but maybe I am all wrong on this and someone did apply to throw a wrench in it.

It was applied for prior to the new owners. The new historic distinction will not hinder the new owners to do what they want as long as they don't apply for the historic tax credits, because then they would not be able to do what they are proposing.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on August 29, 2017, 08:46:42 AM
Tax credits are actually quite restricting as far as what they allow.  In a case like this, opening up the 2nd floor windows would probably be permissible, but nothing more.  Even converting the base of the building to parking would likely be denied.  That doesn't mean there aren't means for compromise, but it's more steps and time.

Quote
1. A property shall be used for its historic purpose or be placed in a new use that requires minimal change to the defining characteristics of the building and its site and environment.

2. The historic character of a property shall be retained and preserved. The removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize a property shall be avoided.

3. Each property shall be recognized as a physical record of its time, place, and use. Changes that create a false sense of historical development, such as adding conjectural features or architectural elements from other buildings, shall not be undertaken.

4. Most properties change over time; those changes that have acquired historic significance in their own right shall be retained and preserved.

5. Distinctive features, finishes, and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a property shall be preserved.

6. Deteriorated historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced. Where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature, the new feature shall match the old in design, color, texture, and other visual qualities and, where possible, materials. Replacement of missing features shall be substantiated by documentary, physical, or pictorial evidence.

7. Chemical or physical treatments, such as sandblasting, that cause damage to historic materials shall not be used. The surface cleaning of structures, if appropriate, shall be undertaken using the gentlest means possible.

8. Significant archeological resources affected by a project shall be protected and preserved. If such resources must be disturbed, mitigation measures shall be undertaken.

9. New additions, exterior alterations, or related new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize the property. The new work shall be differentiated from the old and shall be compatible with the massing, size, scale, and architectural features to protect the historic integrity of the property and its environment.

10. New additions and adjacent or related new construction shall be undertaken in such a manner that if removed in the future, the essential form and integrity of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired.

Note: To be eligible for Federal tax incentives, a rehabilitation project must meet all ten Standards. The application of these Standards to rehabilitation projects is to be the same as under the previous version so that a project previously acceptable would continue to be acceptable under these Standards.

Of course as @savadams13 said, if they don't use tax credits they're free to do pretty much whatever they want. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on August 29, 2017, 08:58:32 AM
Does Ohio's SHPO place restrictions on modifications to properties on the National Register? The Federal Law does not place any restrictions, unless the site has received federal assistance (tax credits or otherwise).

From the NPS website: https://www.nps.gov/nr/faq.htm#restrictions

Quote
What are the restrictions, rules, regulations for historic property owners?
Under Federal Law, the listing of a property in the National Register places no restrictions on what a non-federal owner may do with their property up to and including destruction, unless the property is involved in a project that receives Federal assistance, usually funding or licensing/permitting.
http://www.nps.gov/nr/regulations.htm
There may be state or local preservation laws that a property owner should be aware of before they undertake a project with a historic property. We recommend you, or the property owner contact the State historic preservation office (SHPO) before an action with a listed property is taken. The SHPO is the state agency that oversees historic preservation efforts in their state.
You can find contact information for the SHPOs at:
http://www.nps.gov/nr/shpolist.htm

If Federal monies are attached to the property then any changes to the property have to allow the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation (www.achp.gov) to comment on the project.

You can also read a copy of the National Register of Historic Places code of Federal regulations at: http://www.nps.gov/nr/regulations.htm
You can also find general information for owners at:
http://www.nps.gov/nr/national_register_fundamentals.htm
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ink on August 29, 2017, 10:06:56 AM
Does Ohio's SHPO place restrictions on modifications to properties on the National Register? The Federal Law does not place any restrictions, unless the site has received federal assistance (tax credits or otherwise).


No, as long as you are not using historic tax credits or federal dollars (or something specific like a covenant), SHPO does not have authority to regulate changes to buildings on the National Register. A building could be listed on the National Register one day and torn down the next.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on December 04, 2017, 12:49:44 PM
Did anyone else make it to the tour of the Terrace Plaza Saturday? Looks like the new owners are serious about finding a way to make it work again and are open to most ideas (not limited to hotel/condos combos). They are also really hoping to make it like the original intended International Style/Modernist design with the hopes that the history would be a draw to it's rebirth. Not as bad as i thought the inside would be but the last NY owner took anything that wasnt nailed down as well as ignoring repairs. They also did quite a bit of damage to the hotel roof when they took the brick off the cooling tower too. Financially they are now free of any back takes and other issues so they are turning towards catching up on maintenance. Took LOTS of photos, but here are a few.
[ url = http://www.flickr.com ][ img ] https://www.flickr.com/photos/137258265@N02/38118569384/in/dateposted-public/[ / img ][ /url ]

[ url = http://www.flickr.com ][ img ] https://www.flickr.com/photos/137258265@N02/38834502571/in/dateposted-public/[ / img ][ /url ]

[ url = http://www.flickr.com ][ img ] https://www.flickr.com/photos/137258265@N02/37947718215/in/dateposted-public/[ / img ][ /url ]

[ url = http://www.flickr.com ][ img ] https://www.flickr.com/photos/137258265@N02/38834534371/in/dateposted-public/[ / img ][ /url ]

[ url = http://www.flickr.com ][ img ] https://www.flickr.com/photos/137258265@N02/38834519111/in/dateposted-public/[ / img ][ /url ]

[ url = http://www.flickr.com ][ img ] https://www.flickr.com/photos/137258265@N02/37947719755/in/dateposted-public/[ / img ][ /url ]

[ url = http://www.flickr.com ][ img ] https://www.flickr.com/photos/137258265@N02/38834504561/in/dateposted-public/[ / img ][ /url ]



Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on December 04, 2017, 01:05:38 PM
FYI - first time uploading this way. Any of you know what i did wrong above? At least the links are there though. It was a good tour and it seems there will be more in the future. I found out about this once from the Cincinnati Preservation Collective.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: BigDipper 80 on December 04, 2017, 01:33:54 PM
I was on the tour, it was cool to finally see the interior of this hotel. Boy oh boy does it need a lot of work, but I still have high hopes for this property.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: taestell on December 04, 2017, 02:43:47 PM
FYI - first time uploading this way. Any of you know what i did wrong above? At least the links are there though. It was a good tour and it seems there will be more in the future. I found out about this once from the Cincinnati Preservation Collective.


On Flickr, click the Share icon at the bottom of the photo, then select BBCode, copy that code and paste it into your post. Then repeat for each photo.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on December 04, 2017, 03:09:00 PM
Thanks, I''l try when I get a moment.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on December 04, 2017, 03:14:58 PM
In the hotel portion the rooms are quite small, but the 8' ceilings did not bother me at all with such an expansive view. If the footprints were opened up a bit even the upper floors I could see being apartments/condos. Not everyone wants a cavernous loft space, they would just have to market it to those who appreciate the style.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on December 04, 2017, 03:20:16 PM
^Do you mean "small" for a hotel room? Or "small" for an apartment?

CF3 posted a few photos from the tour: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1762334680445991&id=116290788383730 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1762334680445991&id=116290788383730)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: BigDipper 80 on December 04, 2017, 03:31:16 PM
I'd describe them as "small for a hotel room". Much smaller than your typical new-build 1-bedroom apartment. If you wanted to install kitchens, you'd probably need to combine two units.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ryanlammi on December 04, 2017, 03:32:14 PM
Small for an apartment/condo for sure. Pretty small for a hotel room, but nothing outrageously small. It's a single room with a small bathroom attached. Could never be made into apartments/condos without knocking down walls.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: Ram23 on December 04, 2017, 03:39:46 PM
Boutique hotels tend to have some very small rooms - I don't think the Terrace Plaza rooms are any smaller than rooms at 21C, for example. In bigger cities I've stayed in hotels with much smaller rooms. A mid-century modern themed boutique hotel could probably work well here since the bones are all already actual mid-century modern. A low ceiling works well with that aesthetic.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jjakucyk on December 04, 2017, 05:19:48 PM
I talked with a contractor who walked through recently, and the real problem with the 8' ceilings is that's only available where there's no utilities, basically concrete to concrete.  Over the room entrances, bathrooms, and hallways where you have pipes and ductwork (more of which will be required for all new mechanicals, since what's there is shot) that means you're pushing down to the 7' level which starts to get quite oppressive.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on December 04, 2017, 11:01:32 PM
I talked with a contractor who walked through recently, and the real problem with the 8' ceilings is that's only available where there's no utilities, basically concrete to concrete.  Over the room entrances, bathrooms, and hallways where you have pipes and ductwork (more of which will be required for all new mechanicals, since what's there is shot) that means you're pushing down to the 7' level which starts to get quite oppressive.
If existing mechanicals are shot, they should be ripped out and that space should be used for the new mechanicals. Anybody have photos of the hotel rooms and hallways? If the old ducts were too small, it might require some creative rework... but you definitely want to minimize encroaching on the 8' ceiling heights.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on December 05, 2017, 09:24:55 AM

The halls were the lowest "feeling" part of the Hotel portion and you can see the metal track where the later added (and now removed) drop ceiling was at about 8" above the door transom. That fiberboard panel covered the front of the original fluorescent indirect lamp that also included an illuminated room number. I guess it got covered in a previous remodel but it is still there. If removed it would also raise the door area up to the level of the lowered ceiling.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on December 05, 2017, 10:49:34 AM
@SleepyLeroy thanks for that photo of the hallway... do you have a photo of the illuminated room number that you said is still there?

21c renovated  a mid-century bank into "The Durham" hotel in Durham, NC which turned out awesome: https://thedurham.com/ (https://thedurham.com/)

Across the street is an old mid-century motel that was recently renovated as well, dialing the nostalgia up to 11: http://www.unscriptedhotels.com/ (http://www.unscriptedhotels.com/)

There's enough demand for mid-century modern that it seems like a no-brainer to renovate the top of the Terrace Plaza into a mid-century modern boutique hotel. (I'm not sure what would be the best use for the lower levels).

Looking at the mechanicals in that photo, it seems pretty manageable. There's electric for lighting and smoke detectors and there's a sprinkler system. There don't seem to be any ducts through the hallway. I definitely wouldn't want them to put the drop ceiling back up. It'd be better to leave the sprinkler system exposed (which is quite common in historic rehabs). Not sure where they currently run ducts for heating/cooling, but many hotels give each room their own system (so each room's temperature can be managed independently). Those systems are usually quite small and fit into the wall with the bathroom in each room, so you wouldn't need to sacrifice any ceiling height in the rooms either.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: SleepyLeroy on December 05, 2017, 12:06:30 PM
^^^ No sadly the Room numbers are well hidden and i didnt want to get escorted out by pulling the fiberboard off. I sure was tempted though. They had some drawings there and one showed a section view but nothing head on. Maybe another floor has them exposed but not the case up on the floor we were allowed to tour. They did say that SOM if REALLY excited about the new interest and gave them all the original drawing and even want to volunteer in what ever way they can if it can be restored. In another cool bit i was told that they are pretty sure the original front overhand and TERRACE PLAZA sign still exist under that awful tacked up awning at the entrance. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on December 05, 2017, 12:39:59 PM
^That's awesome that SOM is involved and wants to help.

That original awning looks great in the photo, though I would guess the concrete has deteriorated (due to rusting structural rebar) over the years and would probably need to be entirely rebuilt to look clean like that photo. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: ryanlammi on December 07, 2017, 03:26:43 PM
If anyone is interested, I posted a bunch of images from the tour I went on this weekend here (https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,31694.msg883241.html#msg883241).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jwulsin on December 07, 2017, 05:05:56 PM
^thanks so much @ryanlammi!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: thebillshark on December 14, 2017, 08:53:11 PM
My takeaway from the evening walk tonight: Sixth Street would easily be the CBD’s best, most vibrant street if the Terrace Plaza came back to life. This project should be downtown’s number one priority.

(Especially off they dropped the solid brick facade like in Birkla’s rendering)

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/08/04/developer-unveils-bold-plan-for-deteriorating.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Terrace Plaza Hotel
Post by: jmecklenborg on December 14, 2017, 10:29:15 PM
^On a few of my fantasy transit maps, the Terrace Plaza is demolished in order to open a work site for a central subway station station with 400-foot platforms in line with Sixth St.