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Ohio Discussion => City Discussion => Topic started by: buildingcincinnati on October 21, 2004, 11:06:22 AM

Title: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: buildingcincinnati on October 21, 2004, 11:06:22 AM
Downtown Cincinnati, Inc. does this quarterly.  Read the 12-page report here:
http://www.gototown.com/PDFs/3Q_State_of_the_Downtown.pdf (http://www.gototown.com/PDFs/3Q_State_of_the_Downtown.pdf)

Downtown: Just the facts
Advocacy group plans regular reports on the state of the center city

By Greg Paeth Post staff reporter

Failure and success in downtown Cincinnati get fairly balanced billing in a first-of-its-kind report that provides a comprehensive snapshot of the region's core for the first nine months of the year.  Crime rates climbed for serious offenses, but declined for minor charges.

Office vacancy rates improved and business openings and closings all are chronicled in the "State of Downtown Report" by Downtown Cincinnati, Inc.  The report also shows continued demand for downtown condominiums and provides a glimpse of still-on-the-drawing broad projects that may advance beyond the talking stage in the near future.

Developers invested $210 million in downtown and the riverfront for the first nine months of the year, according to the report.  But the three biggest investments were made by institutions: the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center ($110 million), phase two of Great American Ball Park ($45 million) and the Taft Museum renovation ($23 million).  DCI, often described as downtown's most enthusiastic cheerleader, is the semi-public agency chartered to promote business and residential development in the heart of the region.

Read full article here:
http://www.cincypost.com/2004/10/21/down102104.html (http://www.cincypost.com/2004/10/21/down102104.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: buildingcincinnati on October 22, 2004, 10:26:53 AM
DCI releases first 'State of Downtown' report

Serious crime is up 2.1 percent, less serious crime is down 7.9 percent and the office vacancy rate has improved to 13.6 percent in the city's central business district, according to a new comprehensive quarterly report by Downtown Cincinnati Inc.

The nonprofit business group has produced its first "State of Downtown" report, looking at downtown's facts and figures from July to September. DCI's CEO David Ginsburg said the group will update the reports on a quarterly basis, with an annual overview released in April.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/dailyedition.html#5 (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/dailyedition.html#5)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 05, 2006, 09:41:26 AM
Someone pinch me… The Cincinnati Enquirer actually wrote something positive about downtown.  Hell has just frozen over!

BY MARLA MATZER ROSE | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Downtown is seeing positive trends in virtually every area, according to a report to be unveiled this morning by Downtown Cincinnati Inc.  The nonprofit service organization holds its annual meeting beginning at 8 a.m. at Cincinnati's convention center - expected to soon change its name fromCinergy Center to Duke Energy Center to reflect the companies' merger.

Acceleration of residents moving downtown was a highlight of 2005, along with a building boom and gains in areas including tourism and arts offerings, according to the 2005 State of Downtown report.  DCI's work focuses on the Central Business District between the riverfront and Central Parkway, where it oversees such things as the Downtown Ambassador program to assist visitors with information and cleaning and maintenance in public areas.

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060405/BIZ01/604050323/1076/BIZ
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on April 05, 2006, 10:00:45 AM
so is 500 residents a lot?  It seems to me it is a quality number of people. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PhattyNati on April 05, 2006, 10:17:48 AM
i wonder if those numbers are based on actual population increase for last year or if they are making assumptions based upon units that have been sold, but not necissarily occupied.  if its based on actual population increase one would think downtown should be posed for another year of strong positive growth with the mcalpin and park place coming online
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on April 05, 2006, 10:24:49 AM
It has to be an increase in persons, not units sold. If they state that 500 units are sold, then that would be even better considering that quite a few of those buyers would be in relationship with someone, or have a kid(s).

Yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that things are changing for the better -at a good pace.


On a side note: I think they should revamp Walnut St. into a major entertainment district. That's just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PhattyNati on April 05, 2006, 11:03:56 AM
^ no no...i realize they are not refering to the number of units sold.  i meant was are these 500 people physically living downtown.  as an example of what i mean...if say the mcalpin knows the population of each of the units they have sold, but obviously none of them are living downtown yet,  i can see someone from the newspaper making it easy on themselves by using that information rather than an actual head count thus inflating the real number.  i guess im just making this more complicated than it should be...i was just curious. but maybe somebody understands what im trying to get at...Go Cincinnati!!!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 05, 2006, 11:05:29 AM
Report: Downtown boomtown

Although it's difficult to measure perceptions and how they might impact the long-term future of downtown Cincinnati, it's pretty simple to notice tangible evidence of the changing face of the heart of the city.

Rumbling construction trucks on Fountain Square and nearby Government Square, the recent completion of the Western & Southern Queen City Square high-rise at 303 Broadway and the nearly completed $160 million expansion and renovation of Cinergy Center - the convention facility - all provide ample evidence that downtown is in the midst of a major makeover.

Bricks and mortar progress as well as what seems to be a fresh new attitude among elected officials were cited this morning as indications of better things to come in the future by Downtown Cincinnati Inc., the private, nonprofit agency created to promote and nurture the geographic hearts of the region.

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060405/BIZ01/604050323/1076/BIZ
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 05, 2006, 11:08:52 AM
My response to this is that Cincy is prime for another residential tower or two.  I know condos have been the attractive development as of late, but affordable apartments are in very high demand as well.  Not to mention that the new condos are extremely high in price.  I would love to see the frenzy for some more affordable condos built downtown.  I would certainly look into one!

Just think how what these numbers will look like when 'The Banks' is developed/completed.  Downtown Cincy will be a completely new place....for the better!!!!!!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 05, 2006, 11:48:59 AM
Two positive articles in one day - awesome!

Although I can't say that perception is changing.  I listened to the "Two Angry Guys" this morning on the Sports Animal spew inaccurate data over the air waves with some moron calling up and saying that Hyde Park had 4 murders this year - whaaa?

While the city is making progress, perception with take a while longer.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 05, 2006, 12:10:04 PM
Things are looking up downtown, DCI reports
Cincinnati Business Courier - 10:23 AM EDT Wednesday

More than $600 million in public and private development, an influx of residents and new office and garage space are helping to transform the city's central business district, Downtown Cincinnati Inc. reported Wednesday.  The nonprofit group presented its "2005 State of Downtown Report" at its annual meeting at Cinergy Center.

"While development and construction teams literally have been building our center city, Downtown Cincinnati Inc. has continued its focus on building block programs to ensure a safer, cleaner and more vibrant downtown," said outgoing Chairwoman Charlotte Otto.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/04/03/daily33.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 05, 2006, 12:49:44 PM
Take the survey yourself and rate downtown Cincinnati on various topics:

http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/cgi-bin/listevent.cgi?evnt_id=7219
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on April 05, 2006, 12:49:48 PM
That's good to hear downtown is changing for the better but I wish Over the Rhine was improving at a faster pace because the slower it changes, the longer it takes to change perception and I heard those condos aren't selling well. I don't know if the rendering of fountain square that I saw was the finalized plan but it didn't look significantly better than what it already was (considering how much money they're spending). I wasn't a big fan of the lining with trees blocking the fountain. I would like to see Lower Price Hill improved but my guess is that LPH could fall off the face of the earth and no one would ever notice.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 05, 2006, 01:18:15 PM
^ No I hope to see LPH continue to become more of an hispanic immigrant destination -naturally of course
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: moonloop on April 05, 2006, 02:05:57 PM
^ no no...i realize they are not refering to the number of units sold.  i meant was are these 500 people physically living downtown.  as an example of what i mean...if say the mcalpin knows the population of each of the units they have sold, but obviously none of them are living downtown yet,  i can see someone from the newspaper making it easy on themselves by using that information rather than an actual head count thus inflating the real number.  i guess im just making this more complicated than it should be...i was just curious. but maybe somebody understands what im trying to get at...Go Cincinnati!!!

Here's bit more info on the Residential part of the report. The last two are really nice to see. WCPO has a Word file to download.

Residential
•   500 new residents moved downtown in 2005, bringing the center city residential population to nearly 7,000. The downtown residential population has nearly doubled since 2000.
•   Major 2005 residential projects representing a total investment of more than $90 million and 266 units included: Park Place at Lytle, The McAlpin, 18 East Fourth, The American Building, and The Lofts at Graydon Place.
•   The downtown apartment market remains in high demand with a 94.5% average occupancy rate.
•   Nearly 700 residential units will be under construction in 2006, welcoming nearly 1,000 more residents downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: moonloop on April 05, 2006, 02:08:24 PM
^ No I hope to see LPH continue to become more of an hispanic immigrant destination -naturally of course

I think LPH needs to make up its mind, is residential or industry? IMO, there's way too much industry to make it a decent residential environment.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: unusualfire on April 05, 2006, 02:30:20 PM
What's an ideal downtown population  number?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on April 05, 2006, 02:53:15 PM
^ No I hope to see LPH continue to become more of an hispanic immigrant destination -naturally of course

I think LPH needs to make up its mind, is residential or industry? IMO, there's way too much industry to make it a decent residential environment.
The last time they made up their mind about something like that was probably around 1880 lol.

I want to buy one of those factories and convert it to lofts :) When I'm rich of course. Then eventually I'll have a lot of the buildings bought up and converted to residential property then I'll install a light rail going from LPH to downtown to make it easy for people that work downtown to live there. Since the rail will have a stop in Queensgate downtown will suddenly grow rapidly in between LPH and CBD with skyscrapers all throughout. I have it alllll figured out. Just wait and see!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on April 05, 2006, 03:35:05 PM
Does anyone know how we compare to the other large Ohio cities' on CBD pop. only?

Cleveland
Columbus
Toledo
Dayton


This is a HUGE statement!:
"* The average downtown apartment occupancy rate is 94.5 percent."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 05, 2006, 03:38:21 PM
I would be more interested in density numbers. Downrown Cincinnati is only 0.8 square miles
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: mohr37 on April 05, 2006, 03:39:01 PM
Monte, I also heard the angry guys this morning.  I was so tempted to call in when they were taking about being too scared to take their families downtown to a Reds game.  Sounds like somebody has spent a little too much time in their cul-de-sacs.

Also don't know if anybody else saw the Cincinnati Realtors forum on one of the public access television stations the other night.  Jim Tarbell spoke after DCI presented all the data that was talked about in today's enquirer.  He spoke about a mixed use grocery store building that is proposed in between 7th and 8th streets and Main and Sycramore.  I believe thats the surface parking lot across from Silverglades.  Unfortunately I don't remeber who he said the developer is and whom to call and lobby to.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ink on April 05, 2006, 04:00:19 PM
Good news! Cincy must be doing something right!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 05, 2006, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from Nick Spencer on this issue this topic at  http://cincinnati.blogspot.com.  I would like further input on Nick's breakdown of the numbers.  Does the CBD have about 7,000 residents or not?  Is DCI including the East End & OTR?

Quote
I do think people have to be careful with that 7,000 residents number. That's not entirely accurate, at least as its posed in this report.

When potential investors or realtors look at making a move in a CBD, they are going to look at the number of market rate tenant in the CBD proper. That number is more like 2k, and we have to get it up to 10 (at least) if we want to be taken seriously. Right now, the downtown sales market is decent but not superb... there are plenty of available units on the market right now.

What DCI does to get this number up is include the Eastern Riverfront and OTR. And especially with OTR, that's a LOT of low income residents padding that number. I think the total number of market rate tenants in the Center City area is still somewhere under 2k, and needs to get into the 10k-15k range, as Mayor Mallory talked about during his campaign.

I do wish DCI would spend more time trying to address this and less time fudging numbers to paint rosier pictures. Also, we did have a net loss of jobs and businesses last year, something they attempted to gloss over in this report. Now, a lot of that has to do with badly run businesses, not the state of downtown, but its still something that needs to be acknowledged if this report is to be taken credibly.

I'm glad so many folks are having positive experiences living in the CBD. I see a lot of hit and miss, personally. There's a lot to be said for and against the CBD right now.

But when the local media uses terms like 'boomtown' it show they're regurgitating press releases rather than doing real reporting. We've had WAY too much of that lately.
Nick Spencer | Homepage | 04.05.06 - 6:09 pm | #
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on April 05, 2006, 05:53:32 PM
Under 2k!? Woah. I thought 7k seemed about right. As much surface area as condos like The Gateway take up for only 26 units, I hope they plan on building really tall structures for these properties. Downtown is already pretty dense, where could they build new residential units without using existing commercial space? (I'm assuming it has a high occupancy rate too) If more residents means occupying space that would otherwise still be used commercially then I don't see why it would be any better or worse. It seems like this kind of population growth would be a lot easier in Queensgate, West End, OTR and the East End.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on April 05, 2006, 06:45:55 PM
man, that sure had a way of makin' my mood go from  :clap: :-D 8-) to  :| :cry: :oops: :drunk:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: unusualfire on April 05, 2006, 06:53:26 PM
^ LOL. There is always something behind every story. Does this include Adams Landing?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on April 05, 2006, 07:58:25 PM
I say take the positive press and enjoy it.  We certainly know the Enquirer has no problems highlighting the negative, and does not care about getting the facts completely accurate.  If this helps in creating a different perception, great.

I do think the article distinguishes between Downtown and Greater Downtown, which is probably a more accurate depiction anyway considering the boundaries other downtowns use.  I also would not put too much wait into negative Nick's comments about including OTR and lower income residents.  They obviously only included parts (recently developed projects maybe) since OTR has a population of 7,000 by itself.  I have always seen Downtown proper listed around 3,500, and regardless of the exact numbers, the population is going up.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on April 05, 2006, 08:18:07 PM
^well the article did say that the pop. in 2000 was 3500 and that was always the number I thought of so thats prob. where we are getting it.  they also said the pop. doubled in seze since then and, obviously, now its 7,000.  so maybe their numbers are right.  yea...theyre right.  well, when i move down there, it will be 7,001.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 05, 2006, 08:20:11 PM
Here is the actual "State of Downtown"
http://downtowncincinnati.com/PDFs/StateOfDowntown2005.pdf


According to the report, downtown as we know it (CBD) has a population of 3,849 as of 2005 with a population estimate in 2006 of 4,226.  The population number they used for downtown in the Enquirer is what they call "Greater Downtown" which makes up the CBD, OTR, Adam's Landing, Betts Longworth & Pendleton. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on April 05, 2006, 09:09:39 PM
It would be interesting to get the exact boundaries they used as they obviously only included parts of OTR, the West End, and the East End.  As of 2000, OTR had 7,600, the West End had 8,100, and the East End had 1,692.  They seem to have more clearly pointed out the parts of the latter two, but OTR is still unclear.

http://www.cincinnatichamber.com/pdf/pop/city_pop.pdf
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 05, 2006, 09:44:42 PM
Nice find Cincy1.  It is interesting to see Queensgate listed with 641 residents.  I thought Queensgate was the only neighborhood without any residential?  Where are 641 people hiding out at in Queensgate?

I also don't know why the city can't be consistant with its neighborhood breakdowns.  We know there are 52 neighborhoods in Cincinnati, why can't they just list all 52 and show the population numbers for each?  The same could be said for how the Police keep crime data in reference to the neighborhoods.  Oh and the MLS is a whole-nother mess.  They apparently only list by zipcode so if a home is in Evanston but it has a 45208 zipcode, they list it as Hyde Park.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: unusualfire on April 05, 2006, 09:50:52 PM
^The jail?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on April 05, 2006, 09:51:27 PM
Maybe parts of what we thought was the west end is queensgate? I think theres a few big hotels in queensgate.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on April 05, 2006, 09:55:23 PM
Maybe they are living at the back of the main post office.  That is interesting, but now that you mention it I think the Queensgate could be a prime area for development as it is the one of the flattest areas of the city.  The street grid is already in place so this would be a great area for re-use if current tenants/businesses move.

I agree with the neighborhood breakdown.  You hear of Pendleton or O'Bryonville or CUF - they sometimes talk about a part of a larger neighborhood or group some together.  It would be nice to always have the apples to apples comparison.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on April 05, 2006, 10:03:19 PM
Maybe they are living at the back of the main post office.  That is interesting, but now that you mention it I think the Queensgate could be a prime area for development as it is the one of the flattest areas of the city.  The street grid is already in place so this would be a great area for re-use if current tenants/businesses move.

That's what I really don't understand. The land is completely flat and easy to build on. I guess it's hard for it to connect to downtown though with 75 in the way.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 06, 2006, 09:14:12 AM
I think we need to keep residents out of Queensgate and keep it industrial/commercial.  The jail, citylink center and other services that aren't attractive to residential neighborhoods should be built there.  It we were building Cincinnati from scratch I would have planned it differently but this is the hand we have so I think we should play it that way.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: buildingcincinnati on April 07, 2006, 01:00:12 AM
I always thought the residential portion of Queensgate was the Job Corps Center by Union Terminal.  But, looking it up, they only have room for 225 live-in students.

It couldn't be the jail...could it?  That jail holds over 800, and it has to be full.  That would put the number well over 641.

I think the last time I tried to find out anything on that, the information said that there was one "household" in Queensgate and the rest of the 641 live in "group quarters".

But I'm getting way off subject here....

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 07, 2006, 08:59:20 AM
^ But those numbers were from 2000.  Maybe it wasn't full back then.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: RiverViewer on April 07, 2006, 10:30:49 AM
Maybe residency requires being there for a certain amount of time?  Like, if 150 beds are 30-60 day sentences, maybe they aren't counted as residents?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: kendall on April 07, 2006, 04:56:23 PM
Most of Queensgate is occupied by active commercial/light industrial businesses.  There aren't large swaths of land that could easily be redeveloped into residential, at least not without booting tax-paying businesses.  Remember, the city not only gets property taxes from businesses, it also gets income taxes from the workers.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: buildingcincinnati on April 09, 2006, 07:17:03 PM
Downtown: High risk returns high reward
BY CLIFF PEALE | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

So does downtown Cincinnati even matter anymore?  Depending on what you're watching or reading, or to whom you're talking, you will get a different answer seen through different lenses.  Say you're reading the new report of Downtown Cincinnati Inc. You see the $42 million makeover of Fountain Square, the $160 million expansion of the convention center, the $9.3 million reconstruction of Government Square and the new $62.5 million office building at Third and Broadway. Overall, $600 million is invested in downtown projects at the moment.

The report tells us that people are lining up to buy condominiums downtown and in Over-the-Rhine. Eight out of 10 people feel very safe downtown during the day. There are numbers and tables and statistics - did you know 7,000 people now live in or near downtown? - all pointing to a central business district booming with people, activity and money.  "The excitement," it says, "is building downtown."

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/COL01/604090343/1004/rss03
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: buildingcincinnati on May 26, 2006, 12:47:54 AM
Go to town:
http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/PDFs/1Q_2006_State_of_Downtown.pdf
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on August 30, 2006, 10:07:36 AM
http://www.gototown.com/PDFs/2Q_2006_State_of_Downtown.pdf (http://www.gototown.com/PDFs/2Q_2006_State_of_Downtown.pdf)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on December 20, 2006, 01:17:48 PM
The 3rd Quarter 2006 State of Downtown report is out.  Check out the PDF.  It looks like good news overall.  There are 377 residential units under construction in greater downtown (Betts-Longworth, OTR, CBD, East Riverfront), 273 in pre-development (whatever that means) and 2546 proposed.  The proposed number only takes into account 1200 units for the banks project even though AIG Carter said they wanted something like 3000-4000.  In addition the downtown office vacancy rate is lower than the regional rate.  Read the full report (PDF) at

http://www.gototown.com/AboutDCI.html 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on December 20, 2006, 07:46:24 PM
A couple of items for this edition:

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on December 20, 2006, 07:58:34 PM
^yeah I was pretty sure that the next project and the beer hall of fame were both dead.  They were listed at the very end of the projects list, so I think that DCI knows something is up. 

I wonder if they will ever exercise the air rights and build condos above the gargage at 8th (maybe 7th) Broadway.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on December 20, 2006, 11:16:19 PM
I'm a bit surprised at the count of 22 business closings, but I can't say I'd miss any of them except the dry cleaners.

I'm surprised, too.  I miss the Servatti's on 6th Street, New York & Co, and Bath & Body Works.  :(  There needs to be a good bakery closer to Fountain Square (Dunkin' Donuts doesn't count).  Also, Macy's selection of women's clothing has been horrible lately, so I really miss the women's clothing stores.

I think the Beer Hall of Fame sounds great.  I wonder where that will go.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on December 21, 2006, 09:36:21 AM
I believe the "Beer Hall of Fame" is a bad joke and needs to go away.  Melanie it was due to go in the Tower Place food court (ugg) when it was proposed.  It would be a failure if that happened.  If it didn't have a street side location it would never work.  I think the Beer Hall of Fame and the American Sign Museum should get together and combine the two and open a location along West 5th. 

http://www.signmuseum.com/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on December 21, 2006, 09:50:16 AM
^Ugh....that would be awful.  Not to mention we would lose cheap, fast options for lunch.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on December 21, 2006, 11:21:54 AM
I think the sign musuem is moving to camp washington.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on December 21, 2006, 12:16:36 PM
^ Yes it is moving to Camp Washington.  I never thought Camp Washington would  be a good location to lure tourists.  There just isn't anything around it unless he has plans to make a prominent sign that you can see off the interstate.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on December 21, 2006, 12:19:20 PM
...unless he has plans to make a prominent sign that you can see off the interstate.

What do you mean..something like this:                       :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b133/05Kaelinna/100_6089.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on March 07, 2007, 08:55:56 PM
From Downtown Cincinnati Inc.

Not much new that hasn't already been posted in this forum except that the OTR Summer Home tour is returning this June to feature the Gateway Living Quarter.

http://downtowncincinnati.com/PDFs/4Q_2006_SOD.pdf
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 12, 2007, 03:31:52 PM
Downtown transformed in 2006, DCI reports

More than $680 million in investments in 2006 are creating a new downtown Cincinnati, with a remodeled Fountain Square, condo developments and new restaurants springing up, Downtown Cincinnati Inc. said at its annual meeting Thursday.

The downtown booster group met at condo development Park Place at Lytle to elect board members and present its report to the community. Mayor Mark Mallory provided opening remarks and former Cincinnati Mayor Roxanne Qualls was the keynote speaker.

Added to the agenda at the last minute was a brief address by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, in town garnering support from Hamilton County and Northern Kentucky mayors for the Mayors Against Illegal Guns coalition, an initiative he started in 2006 with Boston Mayor Thomas Menino to push Congress to provide police officers with information they need to crack down on illegal gun dealers and usage.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/04/09/daily34.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/04/09/daily34.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on April 12, 2007, 03:34:41 PM
very positive, downtown office vacany is lower than it is in the suburbs.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 12, 2007, 04:50:43 PM
Here is the full PDF for the 2006 Yearly Report:
http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/PDFs/StateOfDowntown2006.pdf
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 12, 2007, 09:02:05 PM
Focus on downtown quality, Qualls urges

A surprise from the current Cincinnati mayor and a challenge from a past Cincinnati mayor marked the annual meeting of Downtown Cincinnati Inc. this morning.

Mayor Mark Mallory brought New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, in town to announce a crime control initiative, by the meeting. And former Mayor Roxanne Qualls said Cincinnati should work to tailor construction of the restructured Interstate 75, the Brent Spence Bridge and The Banks riverfront project to include environmentally friendly technologies and new designs.

“The quality of place matters because anybody with talent has choice,” said Qualls, now director of Public Leadership Initiatives at Northern Kentucky University. “They don’t just look at their paycheck, they don’t just look at their title. They look at the quality of the place they’re going to. There’s no advantage to going to anyplace USA.”

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070412/BIZ01/304120040/1002/COL02 (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070412/BIZ01/304120040/1002/COL02)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Weedrose on April 13, 2007, 02:28:41 AM
I'm in total agreemet with Qualls on this one; incorporate eco-friendly design elements into the areas mentioned and that would help in creating a unique feel.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on April 13, 2007, 02:26:22 PM
Would you say that Roxanne Qualls was Cincinnati's best modern day mayor?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Michael L. Redmond on April 13, 2007, 02:28:55 PM
Its a toss up, Roxanne or Jerry.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Weedrose on April 13, 2007, 11:32:23 PM
I liked Roxanne gutsy with a good perspective on things.  I'm glad she's still active in the city.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 27, 2007, 12:53:13 PM
DCI project director gets welcome wagon rolling

Dacia Snider is sometimes referred to as downtown Cincinnati's welcome wagon. She's certainly one of its biggest fans.  As director of special projects for Downtown Cincinnati Inc. (DCI), a nonprofit organization dedicated to building a dynamic city center, Snider is responsible for welcoming new businesses and residents downtown. Additionally, she researches and publishes the quarterly and annual State of Downtown Cincinnati reports and produces the annual Downtown Tour of Living.

"If anyone has a question about downtown, I pretty much have the answer," she said.  Snider, 30, a native of Warren, Ohio, grew up in a house with her Romanian immigrant great-grandmother, her grandparents, mom and sister.  She had her first exposure to the city of Cincinnati while interning downtown for the Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce's economic development department. Snider was studying finance and public administration at Miami University at the time and remembers clearly her first impressions of Cincinnati, which weren't so positive.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/04/30/story16.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/04/30/story16.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Neville on April 27, 2007, 01:07:46 PM
Quote
Snider, 30, a native of Warren, Ohio,

She's from where I'm from!!! See, people from Warren, Ohio can do great things...lol
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on April 27, 2007, 08:41:46 PM
Yes - if downtown had 100 more Dacia Snider's, it would indeed be awesome.  I appreciate people with her enthusiasm.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Quimbob on April 28, 2007, 09:31:39 AM
Would you say that Roxanne Qualls was Cincinnati's best modern day mayor?
Dunno about that but I liked her. As a "weak" mayor, she offered leadership & direction. Moreso than subsequent "strong" mayors.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Evergrey on April 28, 2007, 09:59:57 AM
Out of curiosity... how many square miles is "Downtown" as defined by the "Downtown that has a population of 7,700"?

another 800 CONDOS under construction?  impressive
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 28, 2007, 11:13:45 AM
This is directly from the report:

For purposes of this report, “downtown” or the Central Business District is defined by Eggleston Avenue, Central
Parkway, Central Avenue, and the riverfront. “Greater downtown” includes the Over-the-Rhine, Pendleton, City West, Betts-Longworth, Adams Landing and Riverside Drive neighborhoods.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on April 28, 2007, 11:57:17 AM
Out of curiosity... how many square miles is "Downtown" as defined by the "Downtown that has a population of 7,700"?

another 800 CONDOS under construction?  impressive

In that same line you're quoting from, I'd seriously doubt that the average condo price being $333K, include units from OTR.

(By the way, were you serious about your Baltimore comment on SSP, lol.)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Evergrey on April 28, 2007, 01:16:07 PM
yes
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on April 28, 2007, 04:48:45 PM
Out of curiosity... how many square miles is "Downtown" as defined by the "Downtown that has a population of 7,700"?

another 800 CONDOS under construction?  impressive

the CBD is .8 sq miles
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 30, 2007, 04:11:39 PM
Taft law firm expanding downtown space

Taft Stettinius and Hollister LLP will expand at its longtime home in the U.S. Bank Tower downtown, the law firm said Monday.  Taft said in a news release that it extended the terms of its current lease to add an additional 20,000 square feet, for a total of 135,000 square feet in its Walnut Street offices. The lease, which runs through 2023, allows for additional expansion if needed.

The law firm said it also is creating a large meeting/conference room and informal sitting areas on the second floor of the tower, overlooking the newly renovated Fountain Square. Those renovations, designed by KZF and built by Messer Construction, are expected to be completed in 2008.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/04/30/daily8.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/04/30/daily8.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 30, 2007, 08:06:48 PM
GOOD NEWS!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: bmod on May 01, 2007, 02:08:56 AM
is there a first quarter state of downtown report for 2007?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 01, 2007, 06:57:04 AM
there should be but not until about a quarter late, so expect one early summer.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 15, 2007, 02:20:12 PM
Take the 2007 Downtown Cincinnati Survey (http://www.websurveyor.net/wsb.dll/12789/dci407.htm) now!

Let your voice be heard!!!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 23, 2007, 09:14:28 PM
Generally positive.  Number of Condo sales took a nose dive for the quarter but that could be a reflection of the general market. 

They need to get rid of the beer hall of fame and next condos from the proposed developments.

Parker Flats is 65% sold out.  As soon as contruction is done there, I hope Middle Earth moves on to the lot at 4th and plum.  A lot of possibilites there

the link
http://www.gototown.com/AboutDCI.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on May 24, 2007, 10:22:29 AM
Out of curiosity... how many square miles is "Downtown" as defined by the "Downtown that has a population of 7,700"?

another 800 CONDOS under construction?  impressive

the CBD is .8 sq miles

The area with the population estimate of 3,980 (CDB - 2006) is defined as - "(a)The CBD is defined by Eggleston Ave., Central Parkway, the riverfront and Central Ave."
The area with the population estimate of 7,785 (Greater CDB - 2006) is defined as - "The greater CBD
includes the neighborhoods of Over-the-Rhine (OTR), City West/Betts-Longworth, and Adams Landing"

The CDB has been adding about 200 to 300 residents every year since 2000. Solid steady growth. But, if you look at the 2006 annual report they project the CDB downtown population will grow from from a population of 4,292 in 2007 to 8,378 in 2010. WOW!!! That would mean the CDB would have to start growing by about 1,300 new residents in 2008, 2009, 2010. What do they think is going to create such a massive boom in demand? I am all for downtown growth but I think those numbers are WAY high. :-o

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 10:27:27 AM
^the banks
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 10:28:46 AM
So the total population of the CBD and the Greater CBD is 11,765?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PhattyNati on May 24, 2007, 11:09:06 AM
i think the second count included the CBD plus those other areas. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 11:35:43 AM
I can't imagine it does.  OTR's population is at least 4-5k. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on May 24, 2007, 11:35:52 AM
i think the second count included the CBD plus those other areas. 

That's how I interpret it, but the number for the greater CBD area seems low.  So OTR, Betts-Longworth/City West, and Adams Landing on has 3805 people?  I thought OTR itself had around 6000-7000 people in it.  Perhaps they are including part of OTR, or have a ton of people left the area?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on May 24, 2007, 11:53:01 AM
I don't understand why theres all these studies using different areas included in the CBD. In Cincinnati especially, the CBD is clearly defined.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on May 24, 2007, 12:32:53 PM
i think the second count included the CBD plus those other areas. 

That's how I interpret it, but the number for the greater CBD area seems low.  So OTR, Betts-Longworth/City West, and Adams Landing on has 3805 people?  I thought OTR itself had around 6000-7000 people in it.  Perhaps they are including part of OTR, or have a ton of people left the area?

My understanding is the the Greater CDB includes the CDB number. So the total for the downtown area is 7,785. If someone has information that the state of downtown numbers are wrong they should let them know. What ever downtown's population is, expecting the downtown to double it population in just 3 years is very bullish. Remember, the banks won't even have phase one done before 2010 and that phase is only to have a few hundred units. If the banks development in its early stages (up to 2010) can create housing demands for downtown at 4 to 5 times the rate it currently is at that deserves national and international attention.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on May 24, 2007, 12:50:37 PM
Downtown Condo sales and growth rate

1st quarter '06 - sales (52) price ($317,732)
2nd quarter '06 - sales (76) price ($351,970)
3rd quarter '06 - sales (22) price ($341,129)
4th quarter '06 - sales (21) price ($281,767)
1st quarter '07 - sales (17) price ($201,631)

There seems to be a trend that is developing for downtown and its not a good one. Since the Condo and RE bust hit the US back in mid to late Summer of '06 condo sales and prices continue to drop in downtown Cincy, which is what is happening in most US cities right now (developers are even starting to drop some projects in places like Chicago). If the data shows 2nd quarter '07 still slow with prices way down the chances of downtown population coming close to their projected 2010 numbers are very slim. You can see how not only sales numbers but prices over the last 6 to 8 months have really dropped off. I think the developers of the banks are seeing similar data and that is why they have been very vauge on how many units phase 1 of the banks will have and what type of units they will be.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 01:11:37 PM
There is no way that OTR, Betts-Longworth/City West and Adams Landing combined only have 3805 people.  According to the OTR chamber of commerce the population in 2000 was 7,638.  A 50% drop would still be over 3805 and that doesn't even factor in the other three areas. 

Something doesnt' add up.  I am sticking with my guess that the Greater CBD population including the CBD is 11,765.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 01:14:07 PM
Downtown Condo sales and growth rate

1st quarter '06 - sales (52) price ($317,732)
2nd quarter '06 - sales (76) price ($351,970)
3rd quarter '06 - sales (22) price ($341,129)
4th quarter '06 - sales (21) price ($281,767)
1st quarter '07 - sales (17) price ($201,631)

There seems to be a trend that is developing for downtown and its not a good one. Since the Condo and RE bust hit the US back in mid to late Summer of '06 condo sales and prices continue to drop in downtown Cincy, which is what is happening in most US cities right now (developers are even starting to drop some projects in places like Chicago). If the data show 2nd quarter '07 still slow with prices way down the chances of downtown population coming close to their projected 2010 numbers are very slim. You can see how not only sales numbers but prices over the last 6 to 8 months have really dropped off. I think the developers of the banks are seeing similar data and that is why they have been very vauge on how many units phase 1 of the banks will have and what type of units they will be.

The reasons the sale prices are down has to do with the buildings that are being sold.  The previous numbers had a lot of sales in the buildings around Lytle Park.  These new numbers probably (I don't know for sure) reflect sales in Parker Flats, the Edge, the Brittany?, and other more affordable buildings.

I don't know if the Gateway units in OTR are included, but it seems they have been selling very well and are much cheaper than the units closer to the river.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 01:16:35 PM
Interesting fact: From 1980 to 2000, Cincinnati lost 6% of its households but 14% of its population.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on May 24, 2007, 01:52:59 PM
You may be right, UncleRando and I once calculated that area using census track data and we came up with about 11,000 people. But, the main point of the post was how sales and prices are really starting to drop in the downtown area.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on May 24, 2007, 02:07:49 PM
Downtown Condo sales and growth rate

1st quarter '06 - sales (52) price ($317,732)
2nd quarter '06 - sales (76) price ($351,970)
3rd quarter '06 - sales (22) price ($341,129)
4th quarter '06 - sales (21) price ($281,767)
1st quarter '07 - sales (17) price ($201,631)

There seems to be a trend that is developing for downtown and its not a good one. Since the Condo and RE bust hit the US back in mid to late Summer of '06 condo sales and prices continue to drop in downtown Cincy, which is what is happening in most US cities right now (developers are even starting to drop some projects in places like Chicago). If the data show 2nd quarter '07 still slow with prices way down the chances of downtown population coming close to their projected 2010 numbers are very slim. You can see how not only sales numbers but prices over the last 6 to 8 months have really dropped off. I think the developers of the banks are seeing similar data and that is why they have been very vauge on how many units phase 1 of the banks will have and what type of units they will be.

The reasons the sale prices are down has to do with the buildings that are being sold.  The previous numbers had a lot of sales in the buildings around Lytle Park.  These new numbers probably (I don't know for sure) reflect sales in Parker Flats, the Edge, the Brittany?, and other more affordable buildings.

I don't know if the Gateway units in OTR are included, but it seems they have been selling very well and are much cheaper than the units closer to the river.

Do you really believe that explains 35% drop in sales prices? It might cause numbers to fluctuate some but that much, I am more inclined to believe prices are being lowers. I don't understand why people can't believe that developers have dropped prices since sales numbers have now been dropping for almost a year. Out in the suburbs I have seen new townhomes and single family projects drop their prices by $30,000 or more and that on product that was only priced in the $180,000 to $230,000 range. It not complicated, sales are way down, inventories are way up and prices are dropping. At the current selling rate compared to units under construction the downtown area has more than a 5 year supply of condos. That is a LOT!!! In most RE anything over about a 1 year supply is considered to much.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on May 24, 2007, 02:10:36 PM
Interesting fact: From 1980 to 2000, Cincinnati lost 6% of its households but 14% of its population.

Maybe its because more than one person lived in the household. It probably more like 2.5 to 3 persons per household.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 02:49:57 PM
^of course, That just shows a lot of the population loss is due to demographic shifts in our family/household size and not buildings and houses being abandoned wholesale.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 02:55:50 PM
Parker Flats Prices    180-350k
The Brittany             189-209k

Park Place at Lytle    200-1,000k
McAlpin                    259-700k
18E4th                     412k+

Depending on the buildings being sold there is a huge difference in the most expensive condos.  If they use the median sale price this would be less of big difference than if they use the mean.  I don't know which is used.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on May 24, 2007, 03:06:47 PM
Parker Flats Prices    180-350k
The Brittany             189-209k

Park Place at Lytle    200-1,000k
McAlpin                    259-700k
18E4th                     412k+

Depending on the buildings being sold there is a huge difference in the most expensive condos.  If they use the median sale price this would be less of big difference than if they use the mean.  I don't know which is used.

Maybe its means only the low end is selling because people are not will to pay for the high end product?

Median
4th quarter '06 - $242,000
1st quarter '07 - $174,000

Median is also going down by a lot and so is the amount of units being sold.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 03:13:46 PM
the entire housing market is weak right now.  The person who benefits most is the first time homebuyer and they are the person who is most likely to buy a low end product.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 03:15:15 PM
I would like to see the sales of units in the Gateway Urban Living Quarter after one year and then I would feel I have a better picture of the market.

And if the streetcar is approved, the amount of activity is going to change for the better.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 24, 2007, 03:21:27 PM
The high-end condo demographic has been more than tapped into both in the city and suburbs.  I don't think it is a bad thing or a negative trend that the prices of condos are going down.  The younger and middle class demographics that would like to own a home have been largely ignored over the past decade.  It's time for some catching up with more affordable owner-occupied units and more rental units...that is where the market demand lies.  I actually find this trend of lowering condo prices to be a positive for downtown.  It will allow for more young people and families the opportunity to move downtown.  Enough of this over-catering to the baby-boomers!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 03:42:40 PM
Randy, next time you are talking to anyone important or a member of the press, you need to say what you said at the streetcar forum about Cincinnati already knows how to cater to the baby-boomer demographic and needs to work on younger folks.  you put it really well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 24, 2007, 03:57:25 PM
^well thanks...I spew my opinions any/everywhere I possibly can.  Thus far the members of the press that I have contacted (Joe Wessels aside) haven't been all that receptive (not one thing I have said has been published).  But I'll keep on fighting the good fight, and working on those VIP's.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on May 24, 2007, 04:13:26 PM
Parker Flats Prices    180-350k
The Brittany             189-209k

Park Place at Lytle    200-1,000k
McAlpin                    259-700k
18E4th                     412k+

Depending on the buildings being sold there is a huge difference in the most expensive condos.  If they use the median sale price this would be less of big difference than if they use the mean.  I don't know which is used.

Maybe its means only the low end is selling because people are not will to pay for the high end product?

Median
4th quarter '06 - $242,000
1st quarter '07 - $174,000

Median is also going down by a lot and so is the amount of units being sold.

Given when the closings for the 100 or so of the units actually closed in Park Place at Lytle, and the typical cost of the units, I would say that could easily explain the difference for the first three quarters reported from the rest.

I expect the numbers to show another increase (or bubble) as the McAlpin units start running there closings through this quarter and next.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 24, 2007, 04:20:26 PM
A couple of things that I found interesting in the 1st Quarter State of Downtown Report (http://www.gototown.com/AboutDCI.html):

-Part 1 and 2 crimes continue to drop off on a year to year basis...that is VERY encouraging news.  Most importantly the 'quality of life' Part 2 crimes are down a whopping 19.9%!

-Hotel occupancy rates continue to rise...illustrating a growing tourism industry for downtown and the region as a whole

-Of the residential projects under-construction or about to begin you can extrapolate about 160+ new residents in downtown in the near future (I am assuming there are 2 people per unit).  Once these fill up you can add another 400-500 residents into the mix.

-Of the retailers that opened there is a nail place, barber shop, golf shop, drug store, and two bar establishments...four of the six establishments look to be resident oriented retailers.  This too seems to be a positive sign.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on May 24, 2007, 05:26:06 PM
A couple of things that I found interesting in the -Of the residential projects under-construction or about to begin you can extrapolate about 160+ new residents in downtown in the near future (I am assuming there are 2 people per unit).  Once these fill up you can add another 400-500 residents into the mix.

I don't have any hard numbers, but I would probably use 1.5 people per unit as a ratio in the Central Business District and OTR.  I think most new residents are either singles or couples without kids. There are some families moving in, but I suspect it's too low to get the average up to 2 per unit.

Either way, I like the trends you cite.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 24, 2007, 06:18:24 PM
I would guess there are more 2s that 1s but not enough 3+s to cancel out the 1s
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on May 24, 2007, 07:16:07 PM
A couple of things that I found interesting in the -Of the residential projects under-construction or about to begin you can extrapolate about 160+ new residents in downtown in the near future (I am assuming there are 2 people per unit).  Once these fill up you can add another 400-500 residents into the mix.

I don't have any hard numbers, but I would probably use 1.5 people per unit as a ratio in the Central Business District and OTR.  I think most new residents are either singles or couples without kids. There are some families moving in, but I suspect it's too low to get the average up to 2 per unit.

I agree...there are more singles than you're thinking.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 24, 2007, 07:23:47 PM
Yeah I was thinking along the same lines...typical household sizes are around 3 people.  That is why I knocked my estimates down to 2, but sure 1.5 whatever...it's still pretty similar.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on May 24, 2007, 08:52:38 PM
I'm happy with the projections using either number.

Even as a part time downtown resident, I've still noticed the increase in people downton in the evenings.  Last week, I passed three people in my building I knew as I was walking down fourth street to dinner. I repeatedly see other downtown residents at some of the places I regularly go to when I'm in town. I've started to recognize people on the street that I've seen before, even though I haven't met them.  I pretty sure Mrs A Weeks ran past me the other day (based on her picture in the paper) as I was walking home.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see the potential for downtown to start getting that neighborhood feel as the number of residents start to increase. 

Also, while I'm rambling on, I think the area around the Gateway Quarter is going to be a huge success.  I've spent some time walking around there lately during the day to check it out.  The housing in the area looks great.  Between the American Building, the Gateway, and the rehab work going on, there seems to be something for everyone.  There's lots of street level stuff coming in already. There's two theaters, and the new street car line will more than likely cut through there as well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on May 25, 2007, 06:41:01 AM
The high-end condo demographic has been more than tapped into both in the city and suburbs.  I don't think it is a bad thing or a negative trend that the prices of condos are going down.  The younger and middle class demographics that would like to own a home have been largely ignored over the past decade.  It's time for some catching up with more affordable owner-occupied units and more rental units...that is where the market demand lies.  I actually find this trend of lowering condo prices to be a positive for downtown.  It will allow for more young people and families the opportunity to move downtown.  Enough of this over-catering to the baby-boomers!

Lets just hope lower prices mean more units will start sellings. Up to this point the lower prices have only been met with continued lower sales.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 25, 2007, 03:44:31 PM
^You and I both know that the issue of lower home sales is due to the overall market trends that exist.  The product that is/was being offered downtown simply tries to match up with the market demand for that particular point in time.  My prediction is that the next housing uptake will happen with units priced more reasonably.  The market for the $300,000 and up homes has been eaten up and then some...However, the YP's, teachers, firefighters, police officers, and the other middle-class people of the world will have significant demand in the coming years.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on May 28, 2007, 08:24:30 AM
When you say priced more reasonably, I hope you mean, smaller, in a less than desirable location (for most people), or heavily subsidized by taxpayers...$200/ft is a starting point in the CBD, while $100/ft might work in OTR. What this really says is that Cincinnati needs to attract either people young professionals who want an urban lifestyle or higher paying jobs for its YP's. A lot of people would kill for a $300K condo downtown. (even outside of the 1st and 2nd tier cities). I think that many of us who read these urban Cincinnati blogs have an unrealistic sense of the depth the "urban" market in Cincinnati. No offense, but most fireman and policemen have wives and families and are the least likely to buy in a city. The market is DINK (Dual Income, No Kids) YP, Creative, Gay, and Empty Nester. Not scientific. The "working class" will not find a home downtown anymore; in any city. Land prices and construction costs are way too high.

For ragerunner, the 1st quarter of the year is always the slowest (yes I noticed 52 -> 17) however the market is not that deep downtown and a building or two, opening up or in this case, not opening, can skew the numbers completely.

I can guarantee you that the housing prices downtown has not dropped 50%. Perhaps a relative shortage of new supply became available in Q1 2007. The downtown market is not very deep at all, so new construction is significant to sales, avg, median, whatever.

Also to compare the Downtown Cincinnati housing "bust" to other cities is shortsided. As in detached, suburban construction, downtown never really "boomed" to the point of severe over supply, only a lack of demand; the downtown market is still evolving which leads to some market ineffeciencies that will work itself out as the downtown market matures.

Like everything else written on a blog, no right or wrongs, only opinions. Digest as so desired.

Ian 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on May 28, 2007, 05:11:57 PM
I disagree with you about the 'family buying in downtown' arguement.

What you are stating is true and might be true based on what has happened in the past. Times have/are changing. The Generation X'ers and Y'ers (Millennials) are a unique bunch. I think we're going to see something new in real estate trends that we haven't really seen (maybe not so much so with NYC, but that's an animal unlike any other city in North America). I think that the demand for living as close to the central city as possible is going to become the mindset. However, it will only be that way based on entertainment, nightlife, the arts, and options. I've noticed with friends of mine that even though they may have little ones, having a decent nightlife is also held in high regard.

I think safety is definitely important, but not to the extent that baby-boomers make it (based on perception).

I also think $300,000 is a lot for a condo downtown. If this were San Francisco, Seattle, or Chicago, then no - but it's too early in my opinion to market a condo for $300 for a 1 bedroom in Cincinnati. People drive the market price, so if it's sitting on the MLS for a long period of time, then it's time to drop the price.

If it's simply unrealistic to drop the price any lower, then find ways to cut cost. I think I speak for the majority of mid to late 20-somethings when I say "leave the concierge, sauna, and personal movie theatre out!".

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 28, 2007, 07:45:52 PM
The whole housing situation in the future will be solely determined by economics.  The baby-boomers fueled the suburban sprawl we have today.  The new housing that has/continues to be built is that, that is serving those baby-boomers.  They have built their net wealth over the years and can afford this type of housing stock.  However, the younger generations do not have the money right out of college to afford this type of housing.  So the question is which location will be able to provide quality affordable housing for the younger generations, that also appeals to them.

Well the suburban markets have worked VERY hard at limiting the housing stock to high-income only (exclusionary zoning).  The city on the other hand has more opportunities for low, middle, and high income households.  Either people will be forced to move closer to the inner-city due to availability of affordable housing...or the suburban markets will have to experience an extreme drop in home values.  I personally don't see the latter happening, but I could be wrong.

Obviously there are exceptions to all of these scenarios, but I don't think this is too unreasonable to expect.  Combine these market forces with the social advantages the city offers, and I predict an inward migration to the city.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 28, 2007, 09:41:01 PM
is the drop in suburban home values you predict due to increased energy costs?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 28, 2007, 10:46:58 PM
It would be a combination of those types of things (energy costs and so on) and the market demand.  I am predicting that the market demand will be for homes at lower values (due to the population shift).  This will either force lower values to keep those markets relevant...or they will go uninhabited.  Which is unlikely as well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on May 29, 2007, 10:03:28 AM
When you say priced more reasonably, I hope you mean, smaller, in a less than desirable location (for most people), or heavily subsidized by taxpayers...$200/ft is a starting point in the CBD, while $100/ft might work in OTR. What this really says is that Cincinnati needs to attract either people young professionals who want an urban lifestyle or higher paying jobs for its YP's. A lot of people would kill for a $300K condo downtown. (even outside of the 1st and 2nd tier cities). I think that many of us who read these urban Cincinnati blogs have an unrealistic sense of the depth the "urban" market in Cincinnati. No offense, but most fireman and policemen have wives and families and are the least likely to buy in a city. The market is DINK (Dual Income, No Kids) YP, Creative, Gay, and Empty Nester. Not scientific. The "working class" will not find a home downtown anymore; in any city. Land prices and construction costs are way too high.

For ragerunner, the 1st quarter of the year is always the slowest (yes I noticed 52 -> 17) however the market is not that deep downtown and a building or two, opening up or in this case, not opening, can skew the numbers completely.

I can guarantee you that the housing prices downtown has not dropped 50%. Perhaps a relative shortage of new supply became available in Q1 2007. The downtown market is not very deep at all, so new construction is significant to sales, avg, median, whatever.

Also to compare the Downtown Cincinnati housing "bust" to other cities is shortsided. As in detached, suburban construction, downtown never really "boomed" to the point of severe over supply, only a lack of demand; the downtown market is still evolving which leads to some market ineffeciencies that will work itself out as the downtown market matures.

Like everything else written on a blog, no right or wrongs, only opinions. Digest as so desired.

Ian 

Ian,
Please note that the drop in sales has been continuous for several quarters now and so has prices, not just the first quarter. Also, the first quarter of '06 was actually the biggest quarter of that year.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on June 03, 2007, 04:45:10 PM
Surely there will be some families who choose to reside in the center city, but most, probably 95% prefer to live in the suburbs. I work for a large builder in Atlanta, and although the city has seen a tremendous amount of population of growth in the city (relative to the declines in 60's-90's) most growth remains in the suburbs where land and housing is more affordable.

Even with the ridiculous traffic, most, not all, people prefer suburban living because of the affordability and space.

I also think that as gas/oil prices increase, the financial incentive to develop alternative fuels will continue to grow and in the next 10 - 15 years people will be able to drive their car as much as they like, in an affordable and "clean" manor.

What is encouraging however, is that people more people (relative to the declines in the 60's - 90's) are making a decision to forgoe the large lot in the suburbs for a smaller lot in town, or townhome/condo.

Its going to take a tremendous shift in American culture to encourage most families to migrate to condo living, especially those with school age children. My wife and I live in a condo in Midtown ATL, and as much I love the "lifestyle", its would be impossible to add a 3rd or 4th in our forth floor 2BR. Our option then will be to find an very expensive new construction in town, an expensive older house with high maintence costs in town, a little less expensive house in a first ring burb, or an affordable house in the "suburbs." Hopefully we'll be in a position where the first 3 are an option. I think most however are not, and Atlanta also happens to be a very affordable city to live in, relative to other large cities.

I would also say to someone else's point that a 1 BR condo in Cincinnati would have to be extremely special to be $300K, such as view, finishings, etc. I would suspect that most 1BR condo's are probably about 900 SF and cost < $225K , but I havent pulled up the MLS listings.

I would love to see Cincinnati take it to the next level, and I'm impressed with everything that's happening, especially in the last 1 - 2 years. Hopefully, the new residents will create a critical mass that will give DT and OTR the "Buzz" and energy that people really crave in urban living, and then it will just start to happen on its own.

However, I also think that its failure to attract large numbers of the kinds of people who want to live in and invest in urban areas is going to make the revitalization longer than it ordinarly would. They can't change the weather (although Cincinnati would probably benefit from global warming, perhaps a sunbelt city in 2100?) but they can change their attitudes, but I'm not holding my breath.



 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on June 04, 2007, 06:59:49 PM
It is important to distinguish between an urban real estate market and a CBD market. The numbers for downtown and even near downtown, esp. OTR are quite limited and focused on the YP, EN, and similar unencumbered folks. The streetcar line will likely expand that market as it will hopefully open the market for ever wished for grocery store. But most people with families any where in the world want a yard of some sort. You just won't get that in the CBD. I can see City West or the Cov and Newport or along Eastern/Riverside Drive being amenable to that. For families, it is really about enlivening the turn of the last century neighborhoods more so than the CBD. Mt. Auburn, Fairview, Clifton, Walnut Hills, East Price Hill that is where the Xers (not so much) and Yers (more likely) will move for the urban experience. I think Mt. Lookout/East End is really more family friendly over the long term than the CBD ever will be or could be.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 04, 2007, 07:59:07 PM
igon...a couple quick thoughts

I would contend that the majority of Americans choose to live in suburban markets, because that is what's offered.  Not to mention, current zoning codes and economic programs are built that facilitate the 'suburban nation' that we are.  It is hard to like something that is not offered.  When the feds started offering all of the home ownership programs following WWII to promote the "American Dream" this is what happened.  People utilized the interstates and the federal programs that encouraged suburban living.

The housing trends of American society are MUCH more complex than the simple explanation of "people like the suburbs better because of cheaper land, less crime, better schools, blah, blah blah."  There is a deeply rooted history in America that has created this "demand" that we see today.  For example...you work for a "large home builder"...the zoning codes in most areas make it very easy for builders to construct suburban tract housing.  It is difficult for them to offer anything else.  So why fight it??  Just keep the status quo and keep pulling in the $$$.  That's fine, but just because the American public is buying the only thing being offered doesn't make it the "preferred" living choice.  I would argue that if such federal policies/programs change in the other direction...then you would see Americans gravitating towards urban living.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on June 04, 2007, 10:14:55 PM
Rando,

You make some good points, none of which can be argued against...there is a cause and effect of every single policy that the government and social policy that has occurred since the beginning of time, but that creates a society.

Like I stated in my post, it would have to take a fundamental shift in American culture to foster true "urban living" but I also would insist that affordability is going to drive demand more than "what developers" provide. Personally, I doubt this shift to an urban life will occur in masse, and I doubt this will really change most what most American's percieve to be the ultimate American Dream. Its too engrained in our culture. Although I'm not a huge fan of many suburban zoning policies that have segrated land uses, and downzoned property to decrease density, I cant help but say that the people who are making these decisions are elected officials who are reacting to the desires of their constituents... If people really didnt like the way the suburbs where developing they'd vote the policy makers out of office. Its a fact..I've been in rezonings where some jackass is objecting to the amount of traffic that will be created in a development of 2.5 units/acre...All this coming from a schmuck living in a community with, gasp, 4 units per acre...We've been voted down because politicians know its what people want. It's embedded in our culture..as are many other ills caused by crappy government policies such as racism, prolifieration of guns, you name it...Only when people demand change at the ballot will these policies evolve.

Change however is happening in some areas, and these areas have seen an increased development and demand for "mixed-use" projects; but because our society is they way it is, the market for these communities is still a niche market.

People have more choices than ever, now..neotraditional communities are popping up all over the place, and term "mixed-use" developed is more overdone than a hamburger on a grill for 2 hours...(at least in ATL)

For now Cincinnati and other cities have to create places that will attract the demographic that is most likely to enjoy "urban living." Only 10 years ago this blog probably wouldnt have existed (even if technology had allowed it) so its gaining traction, but it well never replace the percieved "American Dream" of a nice big house with a piece of dirt in the burbs...so to debate why are the way we are is a mute point.

Oh, and cities that have limited sprawl by creating urban growth boundaries, or have natural boundaries preventing overt sprawl (namely NYC, SF, Portland, etc, etc...) have seen property values rise to the point where most working class people have a hard time affording a place to buy, as such migration to more affordable parts of the country (namely sunbelt) have been occurring to give people what they want; a cheap plot of land the raise a family. They only saving grace in these urban cities is immigration from foreigners who have helped to reclaim long neglected neighborhoods...Oh shit, in Cincinnati they dont like immigrants (at least what's percieved)...so they go elsewhere.

I'm probably rambling by this point..thanks for reading.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on June 05, 2007, 12:58:25 AM
I have to say that I think there is a vast potential downtown housing market.  The property values of Prospect Hill are indicative of that potential.  The streetcar will greatly facilitate this development in OTR.  It is absurd to believe that a 19th century neighborhood can maintain it's fabric if it's residents are required to own a car.  The "superior schools" arguments for the suburbs has always been something of a smokescreen- Cincinnati Public has always had more cutting edge programs (Montessori, Paidiea, Arts, Foreign Language, IB) than any other local public district.  You can study Latin for more years at Walnut Hills than you can in the Catholic school system.  When people move to the suburbs, it's primarily because they can get more house for their money, or to be closer to their job.  And with house sizes growing while lot sizes are shrinking I don't see the "need a yard for the kids" argument holding much water.  People don't garden recreationally like they used to.  I'm cautiously optimistic.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on June 05, 2007, 09:53:10 AM
Rando,

You make some good points, none of which can be argued against...there is a cause and effect of every single policy that the government and social policy that has occurred since the beginning of time, but that creates a society.

Like I stated in my post, it would have to take a fundamental shift in American culture to foster true "urban living" but I also would insist that affordability is going to drive demand more than "what developers" provide. Personally, I doubt this shift to an urban life will occur in masse, and I doubt this will really change most what most American's percieve to be the ultimate American Dream. Its too engrained in our culture. Although I'm not a huge fan of many suburban zoning policies that have segrated land uses, and downzoned property to decrease density, I cant help but say that the people who are making these decisions are elected officials who are reacting to the desires of their constituents... If people really didnt like the way the suburbs where developing they'd vote the policy makers out of office. Its a fact..I've been in rezonings where some jackass is objecting to the amount of traffic that will be created in a development of 2.5 units/acre...All this coming from a schmuck living in a community with, gasp, 4 units per acre...We've been voted down because politicians know its what people want. It's embedded in our culture..as are many other ills caused by crappy government policies such as racism, prolifieration of guns, you name it...Only when people demand change at the ballot will these policies evolve.

Change however is happening in some areas, and these areas have seen an increased development and demand for "mixed-use" projects; but because our society is they way it is, the market for these communities is still a niche market.

People have more choices than ever, now..neotraditional communities are popping up all over the place, and term "mixed-use" developed is more overdone than a hamburger on a grill for 2 hours...(at least in ATL)

For now Cincinnati and other cities have to create places that will attract the demographic that is most likely to enjoy "urban living." Only 10 years ago this blog probably wouldnt have existed (even if technology had allowed it) so its gaining traction, but it well never replace the percieved "American Dream" of a nice big house with a piece of dirt in the burbs...so to debate why are the way we are is a mute point.

Oh, and cities that have limited sprawl by creating urban growth boundaries, or have natural boundaries preventing overt sprawl (namely NYC, SF, Portland, etc, etc...) have seen property values rise to the point where most working class people have a hard time affording a place to buy, as such migration to more affordable parts of the country (namely sunbelt) have been occurring to give people what they want; a cheap plot of land the raise a family. They only saving grace in these urban cities is immigration from foreigners who have helped to reclaim long neglected neighborhoods...Oh shit, in Cincinnati they dont like immigrants (at least what's percieved)...so they go elsewhere.

I'm probably rambling by this point..thanks for reading.

I would be happy to at least see neo traditional and mixed use projects 'pop up all over the place' in Cincy and its suburbs. It would sure beat the 1980s and early 1990s development patterns of strip centers, individual office parks and track housing that the local development community seems unable to break away from.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on June 06, 2007, 05:43:58 PM
For those who are members of ULI (Urban Land Institute), check out the latest issue of Urban Land. There is a great article which disputes a lot of what I have said. Very well written and encouraging for supporters of change in the suburbs..If you are not a member, you should join. Great organization..www.uli.org

One more thing, as most readers, most recent American development has been driven by ease of transportation, e.g., the automobile. While the development of most European and to some extent older American cities were driven by the need to walk or use street cars to commute, much of America has developed Post WWII where the affordable use of cheap, private cars allowed jobs and residences to relocate further outside cities. In my opinion...if and when the use of automobiles becomes cost prohibitive, we will see mass transition to other types of growth, whether it be mass rail transit or what; only then will the economics justify a substantiative change in lifestyle.

As we all know, this has started to occur in some cities.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jeffrey on June 06, 2007, 08:38:35 PM
The ULI has made some big shifts in thinking.  They used to be the people who had the smarts on how to develop shopping centers and subdivisions but seem to have went over to the "New Urbanist" side. 

Quote
would be happy to at least see neo traditional and mixed use projects 'pop up all over the place' in Cincy and its suburbs. It would sure beat the 1980s and early 1990s development patterns of strip centers, individual office parks and track housing that the local development community seems unable to break away from.

Suburban developement in Cincinnati is pretty abysmal..the city has some really ugly suburbs.  One thinks it would be a bit better than it is..but no. 

Probably worse in older areas like that Colerain Road strip, or Route 4 between the bypass and Hamilton...those are some truley sucky strip developments that seem to go on forever.



Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jeffrey on June 06, 2007, 08:46:12 PM
Quote
Oh, and cities that have limited sprawl by creating urban growth boundaries, or have natural boundaries preventing overt sprawl (namely NYC, SF, Portland, etc, etc...) have seen property values rise to the point where most working class people have a hard time affording a place to buy, as such migration to more affordable parts of the country (namely sunbelt) have been occurring to give people what they want; a cheap plot of land the raise a family.

In the case of Lexington two things happened.  Development went higher density (yet still suburban) and upscale single family.

The more mid-range/low-range housing for blue collar folks then happened in the ring of county seat towns surrounding Lexington...like Nicholasville, Winchester, Georgetown (and also industrial development that needed a large SF footprint). Lex became more white collar/service and not really industrial as it used to be (the first wave of growth there after WWII was "branch plants").

So urban growth zoning, in Lexignton, had the effect of causing an "urban region" to develope in the inner Bluegrass, though there is still a lot of farmland there.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: arenn on June 06, 2007, 09:49:31 PM
The real problem with cities is the school problem.  Until the school systems are a viable option for educating children of the middle class, this will limit their potential.

Keep in mind that Chicago, which is building almost 5,000 condos per year downtown and has experienced probably the biggest condo building boom of any city in the US - there are probably more high rise condo towers under construction in Chicago right now that there are total skyscrapers in Cincinnati - is losing population.  The influx of the wealthy can't make up for the departure of everyone else.

Incidentally, if there is anyplace that might show a path forward for urban schools, it is Chicago.  As having kids has become trendy again, Chicago's yuppie neighborhoods are experiencing horrific stroller congestion.  Interestingly, a number of people I know there are planning to stay in the city and give the public schools a shot.  If a critical mass of educated, affluent people start putting their kids in the local schools, that's probably the best medicine for a turnaround.  Those parents will certainly hold the school's feet to the fire.  It will be an interesting experiment at least.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on June 07, 2007, 05:59:59 PM
Arren, I agee with you, unfortunately, Cincinnati, like most 3rd tier cities will probably never (or at least for a while) have this occur naturally.

The same thing that is occuring in Chicago is occuring in the ATL where I live now. Schools have started to get better because these people care and DEMAND it.

Incidentally Arenn, Walnut Hills HS is awesome, and although I cant say for sure, I'd have to imagine that some primary schools in HP / Oakley are probably ok as well. Its my guess that Middles Schools are the big issues, but its also unfortunate that there is only one real respectable high school.

Ian
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 07, 2007, 06:44:15 PM
>Arren, I agee with you, unfortunately, Cincinnati, like most 3rd tier cities will probably never (or at least for a while) have this occur naturally.

Brother don't come around here calling Cincinnati a 3rd tier city, especially when you live in Atlanta.  Nothing could ever get me to move down there.

Second, we have a large number of people on this site who can't pass up a chance to gloat about Walnut Hills. 

>You can study Latin for more years at Walnut Hills than you can in the Catholic school system.

Oh so that makes it better, even though St. X still has four years of Latin and in fact required Latin for all four years until about 1980 when it unfortunately dropped that requirement in favor of "world cultures", "bioethics", and other things that prepare you for how weak college is.  But I guess due to the liberal takeover of education 40 years ago Latin might be new again.     



Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on June 07, 2007, 08:29:32 PM
Brother don't come around here calling Cincinnati a 3rd tier city, especially when you live in Atlanta.  Nothing could ever get me to move down there.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Out of all the cities to choose in the U.S., please do not use the ATL.

This is just sad ...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=atlanta&ie=UTF8&ll=33.766305,-84.38633&spn=0.072636,0.151062&t=k&z=13&om=1
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on June 07, 2007, 08:54:37 PM
>Arren, I agee with you, unfortunately, Cincinnati, like most 3rd tier cities will probably never (or at least for a while) have this occur naturally.

Brother don't come around here calling Cincinnati a 3rd tier city, especially when you live in Atlanta.  Nothing could ever get me to move down there.

Second, we have a large number of people on this site who can't pass up a chance to gloat about Walnut Hills. 

>You can study Latin for more years at Walnut Hills than you can in the Catholic school system.

Oh so that makes it better, even though St. X still has four years of Latin and in fact required Latin for all four years until about 1980 when it unfortunately dropped that requirement in favor of "world cultures", "bioethics", and other things that prepare you for how weak college is.  But I guess due to the liberal takeover of education 40 years ago Latin might be new again.   


WHHS was ranked 35th best high school in the U.S. this year according to U.S. News and World Report. I think that says a lot. The course work is extremely demanding. About 4-6 hours a night of studying to get decent grades. The general concensus there was that the Latin was pointless but it is a great way to learn the root of words. Glad I was able to take Spanish instead though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 07, 2007, 09:34:36 PM
I didn't know where else to put this, so mods please feel free to move it if you like.

I just did a quick and dirty downtown Cincinnati housing analysis of some of the larger projects going on, here is how the listings break down (active=for sale, pending=contract accepted/presold):

Parker Flats:  22 active, 32 pending
Lofts at Fountain Square:  9 active, 9 pending
The Edge Condos: 23 active, 26 pending
Gateway Condos: 7 active
26 E. 6th: 2 active, 1 pending
The McAlpin: 43 active, 5 pending (I think all those delays reaaaalllly cost this project some buyers)
American Building: 11 active, 2 pending (most active listings are in the $300K range, there is 1 at $900K and 1 at $1.05M)
Captains Watch:  6 active, 4 pending (will Towne Properties go forward with CW Phase II very soon?)
One River Plaza Phase I: 18 active, 15 pending (when will they pull the trigger?)

It works out to a 60/40 split of actives to pendings with a total of 235 listing, not too bad considering the McAlpin drags the whole average down.  If you take out the McAlpin, the ratio goes to 52/48.
Please discuss!

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on June 07, 2007, 10:50:58 PM
Summit Country Day won the state latin convention this year (beating St X. and Walnut) if that means anything!

Walnut does offer the most AP's in the city, (followed by SCD actually...)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 08, 2007, 06:54:37 AM
Court Street brainstorming
Entrepreneurs share revitalization ideas

About three dozen community leaders, politicians and business executives got a taste of Court Street on a blocklong tour Thursday afternoon, and Marco Ollino, the 29-year-old Estonia native and owner of the Passage Café, hopes they will remember this:

"We need to create something that resembles Europe," said Ollino, who opened his restaurant 1½ years ago, "a fresh market that is open late, someplace for students to go, maybe a block party for people who live along Court Street or own businesses here."

The challenges and opportunities for struggling businesses along historic Court Street just north of downtown's central business district were the focus of the third annual small business tour and roundtable sponsored by Downtown Cincinnati Inc.

David N. Ginsburg, president and chief executive of DCI, sees the stretch of small businesses, which includes a meat market, art gallery, pastry shop and bookstore of first editions and photographs, as a pocket business district with plenty of potential.

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070608/BIZ01/706080342/1076/BIZ (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070608/BIZ01/706080342/1076/BIZ)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on June 08, 2007, 07:41:38 AM
^ I would love to see Court St. revitalized.  It is so neat during the afternoon Monday through Friday.  I would love to see this continue through the evenings and on weekends.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: BallHatGuy on June 08, 2007, 08:51:20 AM
Walking on Court Street nearly every day now that I live around the corner it really is a great street.  Huge potential. Especially the block between Vine & Walnut.  Once a streetcar goes down Walnut I think the parking lots on the east side of Walnut, north and south of Court, will hopefully be developed. 

Passage Cafe is open late and on weekends. And there is a new chicken place or something next to Chambers. I need to get the name.  It was in the Downtowner I think.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 08, 2007, 11:14:33 AM
KMK renews downtown lease

Law firm Keating, Muething & Klekamp announced Thursday that it will extend its lease downtown at 1 East 4th Street until 2014. The Courier reported in February that the law firm was examining options to move from its eight floors in the building, formerly called the Provident Building, to space that could accommodate 20 percent growth over the next few years.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/06/04/daily49.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/06/04/daily49.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 08, 2007, 12:13:12 PM
Well, I am glad they are staying downtown, but I would have loved to have seen them anchor a new building!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 14, 2007, 01:29:21 AM
Hey, some other people are starting to realize...damn Downtown really does have a lot going on!  We aren't a bunch of loonies on here after all.

Are we catching the 'next wave'?

For a city whose residents keep griping about a long-term decline, Cincinnati seems to have plenty of irons in the development fire right now. This week's announcement that Western & Southern Financial Group is reviving its long-dormant plan for a major downtown office tower is just the latest in a list of projects and proposals that could transform our region's core.

"It's time for the next wave" of downtown development, said John Barrett, chairman and chief executive of Western & Southern, about his firm's proposed Queen City Square. He was talking specifically about the office-space building cycle, yet it could be taken in a broader sense. That's a tantalizing proposition to those who have a stake in the city's vitality. But is it mostly talk, or are we on the brink of an urban renaissance?

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070613/EDIT01/706130317/1090 (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070613/EDIT01/706130317/1090)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on June 14, 2007, 02:13:19 AM
Second, we have a large number of people on this site who can't pass up a chance to gloat about Walnut Hills. 

>You can study Latin for more years at Walnut Hills than you can in the Catholic school system.

Oh so that makes it better, even though St. X still has four years of Latin and in fact required Latin for all four years until about 1980 when it unfortunately dropped that requirement in favor of "world cultures", "bioethics", and other things that prepare you for how weak college is.  But I guess due to the liberal takeover of education 40 years ago Latin might be new again.

The point I was trying to make was that the whole idea that middle class or wealthy folks move to the suburbs for better schools is patently ridiculous.  CPS offers more diverse programs than any other school district in the area- if your concerned about the best approach for teaching your child, CPS offers the most choice.  But middle class and wealthy people move out of the city because they can get more house for their money, or to be closer to their jobs, etc.

I suppose I was digging on the Catholic school system when I mentioned that Walnut Hills requires and offers more Latin than any Catholic school.  So yes, it does make Walnut Hills better than St. X, and by your own standards.  St. Xavier has a lot to offer the adolescent boy, particularly by providing an environment that encourages the more erratic youngster to discipline and apply oneself to their education.  It is a very good school.  But you've correctly criticized it in your statement above.  The Catholic Church is certainly one for instruction they consider supremely relevent and timeless, and the Ratio Studiorum as created by the Jesuits is a good guide to that.  The fact that after 1980 the school dropped portions of it's curriculum that were once considered essential belies the fact that St. X has changed its original purpose and become merely a home for the wealthy.  It's incredible tuition increase over a similar time frame gives support to that fact.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on June 14, 2007, 03:05:49 AM
It has to do purely with status. Everyone has to be the model parent. You simply aren't that by sending your kid to an inner city school full of black kids and less qualified teachers (most quality teachers avoid inner city schools like the plague...probably for the same reason, status). St. X, Moeller, Summit, Elder, Mercy, ...Cinci Country Day (for the ultra elite Indian Hill resident evading a situation that would require them to be among the only moderately rich). Its all about status. Ignorant people equate spending more money with higher quality. They use the same logic to defend themselves when joining frats (It looks oh-so-great on a resume!). Pshh... No, you know what looks great on a resume? SKILLS. Knowing three foreign languages. I would argue that its a bigger issue than just schools. How many young professionals living in Over-the-Rhine are really a part of the overall OTR community? For one thing, if you look up the data, they're all concentrated around Main street. If they were literally forced to interact and adhere to the same quality of life as the dope dealer, the same way kids in a school setting recieve the same quality education, then they simply would never live there.

To get back on topic though, Cincinnati has but a few quality public schools, SCPA and Walnut, but they drain the city of its smart and creative students, leaving the rest to struggle and decay. You see cheap attempts to make the inner city schools appear to be better with uniform requirements and "university" attached to the name of the highschool. Its kinda sad.

Basically, there are a few inner city public schools that are good, and in fact better than most private schools, but overall I think catholic schools are overrated.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 14, 2007, 10:01:32 AM
>St. Xavier has a lot to offer the adolescent boy, particularly by providing an environment that encourages the more erratic youngster to discipline and apply oneself to their education.  It is a very good school.  But you've correctly criticized it in your statement above.  The Catholic Church is certainly one for instruction they consider supremely relevent and timeless, and the Ratio Studiorum as created by the Jesuits is a good guide to that.  The fact that after 1980 the school dropped portions of it's curriculum that were once considered essential belies the fact that St. X has changed its original purpose and become merely a home for the wealthy.  It's incredible tuition increase over a similar time frame gives support to that fact.


The disgusting tuition increases and expansions of the physical plant are the primary reasons why I don't pay attention the the goings-on at the school.  And that's without even looking into what they're teaching now.  Backpeddling a bit, during the period 1970-1990 all catholic schools across the nation experienced a dramatic drop in the number of priests and nuns teaching.  Their expenses obviously increased while hiring lay teachers and now they're stuck paying pensions for many more lay teachers from the 70's and 80's and its only going to get worse as 99% lay faculties and staffs retire and live on average for 30 more years.     

To illustrate this, around 1990 St. Xavier renovated what was known as the Jesuit Wing from a residence for the dozens of Jesuit priests who used to staff the school into classrooms.  A new freestanding house was built nearby with 13 bedrooms and around 1992 there were still 8 or so priests living there.  Now they're down to maybe 3 with a big empty house to pay for. 

Also the big difference between St. X and the private schools you mentioned is that St. X is primarily a west side school.  It draws well over 50% of its students from College Hill on over (Forest Park, Hamilton, even Batesville and Rising Sun, IN) with only a sprinkling of people from Hyde Park and Indian Hill.  In fact I didn't even know anyone who lived over there.  I never even saw Hyde Park Square until I was 19 or 20.  The only east siders I knew lived in Anderson Twp or Loveland.  There were also a fair number of people from Kentucky and in fact when the school was downtown for a period 1/3 of the student population was from Kentucky.  1 or 2 people from the nice part of Clifton and North Avondale.     

Ursula and Ursuline?  East side schools.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on June 14, 2007, 10:25:15 AM
Backpeddling a bit, during the period 1970-1990 all catholic schools across the nation experienced a dramatic drop in the number of priests and nuns teaching.  Their expenses obviously increased while hiring lay teachers and now they're stuck paying pensions for many more lay teachers from the 70's and 80's and its only going to get worse as 99% lay faculties and staffs retire and live on average for 30 more years.

My dad, a St. X grad, said essentially the same thing, that the school changed when they stopped having the scholastics (priests in training) manning the faculty.  Without this essentially free faculty, costs rose.  But I also believe that with the rise of confessional choice, and the stigma against Catholics that disappeared pretty quickly after the 60s, leadership of the school made a conscious decision to market the school as a premier private school, a la Cincinnati Country Day, etc.  St. X has some pretty strong alumni loyalty, guys who give a lot of money, money that could go into keeping the tuition down.  But then again, why not make those who can afford it pay the full rate?  That's why Harvard does it.  But you can't help but losing something of value to gain that type of liquidity.

Also the big difference between St. X and the private schools you mentioned is that St. X is primarily a west side school.  It draws well over 50% of its students from College Hill on over (Forest Park, Hamilton, even Batesville and Rising Sun, IN) with only a sprinkling of people from Hyde Park and Indian Hill.  In fact I didn't even know anyone who lived over there.  I never even saw Hyde Park Square until I was 19 or 20.  The only east siders I knew lived in Anderson Twp or Loveland.  There were also a fair number of people from Kentucky and in fact when the school was downtown for a period 1/3 of the student population was from Kentucky.  1 or 2 people from the nice part of Clifton and North Avondale.

I can't say that this has been my experience.  I know a lot of guys who went to X, and all but one of them were from the East Side of town (coincidentally, that one was from Batesville, IN).  Definitely knew plenty of guys who went to X from the Hyde Park/Mt. Lookout area.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on June 14, 2007, 10:51:24 AM
I'm with LK as to the fact that CPS actually has some decent schools that the middle class can thrive in. My sense is that the weakness is getting students to 'Nut outside of the Montessori system. From talking to parents who had children in CPS, the feeder system is pretty hit and miss. I've actually chatted with a number of parents from the suburbs who have children that really want to go Walnut Hills instead of their suburban high school (well each was in a first ring suburb, like North College Hill). I'm okay with letting the middle class shield their children from the more challenging aspects of big city school systems, when that doesn't happen cities decline much more quickly.

JMeck, there were actually quite a lot of us at St. X from the east side, such as the person who sat behind you in Geza's class freshman year. We ESers mostly just tried to avoid the WSers. I do agree that StX moved too far away from its classical form of education as it become of school for the rich. The power of parochial schools should be in their religious identity and purpose rather than their ability to make you or your progeny rich.

You mean LK and Flick didn't go to St. X. No way.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Michael L. Redmond on June 14, 2007, 01:04:08 PM
Quote
WHHS was ranked 35th best high school in the U.S. this year according to U.S. News and World Report.

And with such distinguished alumni as
Stan Chesley and Michael Redmond

Walnut was and is a truly great school

Quote
Are we catching the 'next wave'?
 Can[Has] Cincinnati reach[ed] the "critical mass" needed for a true urban boom?
Just a bit of editing.  I do not see things slowing down and with the success of Gateway II, there is all the reason in the world to continue on.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 14, 2007, 03:05:02 PM
>JMeck, there were actually quite a lot of us at St. X from the east side, such as the person who sat behind you in Geza's class freshman year.

Merkowitz, I'd tread lightly around here as I have some video footage of you predicting a Steve Forbes rout in '96.  While wearing a plaid suit.   


>We ESers mostly just tried to avoid the WSers. I do agree that StX moved too far away from its classical form of education as it become of school for the rich. The power of parochial schools should be in their religious identity and purpose rather than their ability to make you or your progeny rich.

Well I don't know about your kind but people definitely weren't rich in my area and if they were you didn't know it.  St. X was nothing like a WASP prep school, that's for sure.  I remember when Mr. Parmentier cancelled the 70's liesure suit day, and that was in 1992.  He'd been having it since like 1987.  It's hilarious how St. X beat the nationwide 70's retro trend by a full decade.         
 
Those Ursuline girls were rich, though. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on June 14, 2007, 03:28:51 PM
For the ATL haters (JMeck), I have been pleasantly surprised by the amount of infill and urban development occuring in this city having lived in Hoboken, Washington DC, Cincinnati (5 Years), San Jose, Madison, WI, and Charlotte and now ATL for 1.5 years

Yes, it's a suburban mess, but the infill is something to desired, especially by a city like Cincinnati. The inward migration of families is very impressive. Many people feel the same way about Cincinnati as you feel about ATL; and honestly, most given the option (especially people in our Gen X demographic) would probably move to Atlanta.

And yes, as far a US importance goes, I'd give Cincinnati a 3rd tier ranking. My opinion...

For example:

Tier One

NYC, LA, SF, CHI, DC

Tier Two

BOS, ATL, DAL, PHL, SEA, HOU, MIA, SD, etc

Tier Three

CIN, CLE, DET, STL, CLT, so on and so forth...




Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on June 14, 2007, 05:32:41 PM
For the ATL haters (JMeck), I have been pleasantly surprised by the amount of infill and urban development occuring in this city having lived in Hoboken, Washington DC, Cincinnati (5 Years), San Jose, Madison, WI, and Charlotte and now ATL for 1.5 years

Yes, it's a suburban mess, but the infill is something to desired, especially by a city like Cincinnati. The inward migration of families is very impressive. Many people feel the same way about Cincinnati as you feel about ATL; and honestly, most given the option (especially people in our Gen X demographic) would probably move to Atlanta.

And yes, as far a US importance goes, I'd give Cincinnati a 3rd tier ranking. My opinion...

For example:

Tier One

NYC, LA, SF, CHI, DC

Tier Two

BOS, ATL, DAL, PHL, SEA, HOU, MIA, SD, etc

Tier Three

CIN, CLE, DET, STL, CLT, so on and so forth...

By US importance do you mean GDP by metro area? Theres already a thread with that data. Even if Cincinnati is a third tier city regarding "US importance" thats no indication of "quality of life". Just keep reminding yourself of Atlanta's US importance every time you're stuck in traffic for and hour and a half trying to get from downtown to Alpharetta.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 14, 2007, 06:05:33 PM
By US importance do you mean GDP by metro area? Theres already a thread with that data. Even if Cincinnati is a third tier city regarding "US importance" thats no indication of "quality of life". Just keep reminding yourself of Atlanta's US importance every time you're stuck in traffic for and hour and a half trying to get from downtown to Alpharetta.

Sh!t...I'm going to be living in Alpharetta, and I hate driving!  I spent 1 day driving around in the Alpharetta area, and the drivers in ATL are a-holes for no good reason.  It's not like it's NYC or Chicago for craps sake...so quit driving like it's the damn Indy 500 please!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on June 14, 2007, 06:08:57 PM
David,

If you read back in the thread you will find that I'm responding to a comment from someone else to my comment about 3rd tier cities such as Cincinnati having a hard time attract "urban dwellers and people who will risk sending their kids to city school." At which point he mocked calling Cincinnati a 3rd tier city.

This is why blogs suck; It seems like someone is always jumping into a conversation that half finished and expecting to know what people have been talking about for the past hour...I'm probably guilty of it myself.

Like every city, there's a trade off. Personally, I love what Cincinnati could be, its natural beauty and for the most part, the people...but I'll take the economic prosperity of Atlanta or any other sunbelt city for that matter...

The same goes with living in Manhattan. A great city of course, but I would think that living in Manhattan is a real pain in ass. Going to the airport's a pain in the ass, the cost of living is a pain in the ass, or Chicago, shit, standing on the El platform at 7:00AM in January is a real pain in the ass, but a lot of people do it...It just depends on how they choose to prioritize their life.

I'll take my 1/2 hour reverse commute in the AM and 1 hr PM drive in exchange for opportunities that exist in ATL and not in CVG as well as the pleasant winters. Just my own personal trade off; and it would seem the 125,000 + who move to Greater Atlanta every year.

If I worked downtown like my wife, I'd have a mile commute...so not everyone sits in traffic for an hour and a half.

I wasnt thrilled to move here from Charlotte, but as an "urban" fan, I've been absolutely amazed by the neighborhoods in this city and the revitalization occuring...

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 14, 2007, 06:29:56 PM
Can we please keep this thread on topic...if you wish to continue the penis contest between Cincinnati and Atlanta, can you at least do it through PM?  The two cities are COMPLETELY different breeds and its like comparing apples to oranges.  Hopefully we can get back to the discussion about the current state of Downtown Cincinnati.

I also plead that this ridiculous conversation about Walnut Hills, St. X, etc stops as well.  Create another darn thread for this convo if you so choose to continue it.  All of these discussions are just getting out of hand.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on June 14, 2007, 09:18:12 PM
Randy,

I agree that the ATL vs the CVG has nothing to do with the state of downtown, but the thread has taken on a life of its own; I guess its only natural that the thread will evolve as more people respond with their own takes why things are the way they are...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on June 14, 2007, 09:57:20 PM
3rd tier seems about right for cincinnati, but for 1.5 million in manhattan you get a 2 bedroom condo/apt.  In cincinnati 1.5 million gets you the 15th, 16th and 17th floors of the american building totaling about 6000 sq ft with four parking spaces.

Its a question of values, do you want to live in the capital of the world and work 60 hrs to get by or work in cincy and work 40 hrs to live comfortably.

The state of downtown is getting better.  we need to keep working because we aren't across the finish line yet, but hey you have opportunities in cincinnati you would never have in nyc, atl or other places.

do you want to be a big fish in a little pond or the other way around.  thats the real question.

by the way atlanta's northwestern suburbs are a vicious wasteland of stripmalls and the nuevo riche.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on June 15, 2007, 04:21:16 AM
>JMeck, there were actually quite a lot of us at St. X from the east side, such as the person who sat behind you in Geza's class freshman year.

Merkowitz, I'd tread lightly around here as I have some video footage of you predicting a Steve Forbes rout in '96.  While wearing a plaid suit.

Man, I wish I had known about this in time for dmerkow's bachelor party.  It would have completed the humiliation.

No, you know what looks great on a resume? SKILLS. Knowing three foreign languages. I would argue that its a bigger issue than just schools.

To get back on topic though, Cincinnati has but a few quality public schools, SCPA and Walnut, but they drain the city of its smart and creative students, leaving the rest to struggle and decay. You see cheap attempts to make the inner city schools appear to be better with uniform requirements and "university" attached to the name of the highschool. Its kinda sad.

Basically, there are a few inner city public schools that are good, and in fact better than most private schools, but overall I think catholic schools are overrated.

Knowing three foreign languages isn't really going to do much for you unless you need to know three foreign languages.  The definition of what constitutes a quality school is open for discussion, though this probably isn't the place for it.  I don't know what you mean when you say that SCPA and Walnut, "drain the city of it's smart and creative students, leaving the rest to struggle and decay."  It makes no sense, and how do you justify this statement?

Like every city, there's a trade off. Personally, I love what Cincinnati could be, its natural beauty and for the most part, the people...but I'll take the economic prosperity of Atlanta or any other sunbelt city for that matter...

I'll take my 1/2 hour reverse commute in the AM and 1 hr PM drive in exchange for opportunities that exist in ATL and not in CVG as well as the pleasant winters. Just my own personal trade off; and it would seem the 125,000 + who move to Greater Atlanta every year.

The economic prosperity of Atlanta is very much job specific.  I have friends who are lawyers in both Atlanta and in Cincinnati, they make the same money, but the lawyers in Cincinnati can afford better houses, nicer cars, lower general cost of living, etc.  They may spend more money to fly direct, and there are certainly fewer interesting restaurants in Cincinnati, but basically they are more prosperous.  This doesn't hold in every case, but is relative to one's job and the socio-economic status under which one was born.

Regarding the tangents that occur in these threads, aside from posting news stories that reference downtown, the heading seems broad enough to include many topics of discussion that influence downtown without specifically mentioning it.  Public education, and the examples of specific schools seem to fall under that category.  Or should we only speak of Taft High School on this thread?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Michael L. Redmond on June 15, 2007, 09:05:57 AM
Quote
Cincinnati has but a few quality public schools, SCPA and Walnut, but they drain the city of its smart and creative students, leaving the rest to struggle and decay.
I have to disagree with this statement.  As I mentioned before, I went to Walnut, my brother went to a private school.  The choice I had was not between Walnut and another Public School, but Walnut and a private school.  I believe that you will find that is the case with most of the students of this type of school including SCPA.  So without Walnut Hills and SCPA the "smart and creative students" would not attend a Cincinnati Public School at all leaving all of CPS to "struggle and decay".
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on June 15, 2007, 10:30:05 AM
I don't know what you mean when you say that SCPA and Walnut, "drain the city of it's smart and creative students, leaving the rest to struggle and decay."  It makes no sense, and how do you justify this statement?
Why doesn't it make sense? In 6th grade, Walnut Hills came to my elementary school and had us take a test and those that passed ended up going to Walnut. If you have a better opportunity available to you, you're going to take it. With the smartest kids going there, the public high schools end up with a higher concentration of riffraff. Some of the students at Walnut and SCPA would have went to a private school but I think the majority would not have, and the fact remains that there is a huge disparity between WHHS, SCPA and the rest of the public schools.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Michael L. Redmond on June 15, 2007, 11:25:30 AM
Quote
Some of the students at Walnut and SCPA would have went to a private school but I think the majority would not have
Still, I disagree.  The opportunity was there for me and the choice was this magnet school (hence the name magnet).  This is an asset for CPS, something that gives bright and talented students a reason to go to a public school when otherwise they probably would choose not to.  Walnut and SCPA in no way hurts any other school but lends to them.  When CPS can boast the 35th best school in the US, it is hard to argue that is a bad thing.

Quote
the fact remains that there is a huge disparity between WHHS, SCPA and the rest of the public schools.
So I ask, which do we do, demand higher performance standards from other schools, or lessen standards for Walnut?  I think it better to complain about the schools that are not demanding the same high, academic standards, not the one who is out-preforming most every other school in the nation.  They should be celebrated and emulated.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 15, 2007, 12:03:54 PM
The only way to get away from the current system of separating those who do better on standardized tests is to scrap entirely high schools as we know them.  For example cycle students randomly through four different high schools during the four years so that social cliques are knocked out soon after they form and give students exposure to a lot of different teachers and teaching styles.   

Really I think high school itself is fundamentally flawed because in premodern society youth were never concentrated in a building more or less every weekday for four years.  Because teenagers did tons of physical labor and often bore very real responsibilities they certainly grew up a lot faster.  In rural areas kids worked on the farm every day of their lives or on the coasts boys often went to sea at age 13 or 14.  Instead now you've got a bunch of balls of blubber who come home from school and play video games and eat ho-ho's. 

Merkowitz, imagine the lot of us 14 year-olds in Mr. Parmentier's class with about 200 guys aged 15-40 in the hull of the USS Constitution circa 1800 manning our canons and drinking 32oz's of rum every night for months on end, sailing to the Caribbean, England, through the Straits of Gibraltar, around Cape Horn. That's how it used to be.  When the ships were wood and the men were steel.     
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on June 15, 2007, 12:19:37 PM
^Uh...



In the case with Private school kids going to Walnut, I know a lot of kids that choose to leave schools like Seven Hills, CCD, and SCD, as well as some of the private grade schools that don't have highschools that go to Walnut.  It's as good of an education and it's free for city residents.  The fact that so many of the elementary schools in the city suck is what causes these people to look elsewhere for gradeschool education, and then turn to the public school for highschool.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 15, 2007, 12:23:35 PM
this is ridiculous
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Michael L. Redmond on June 15, 2007, 12:50:59 PM
Uncle Rando,

I know this seems off topic but I can tell you first hand that having a strong school within CPS helps drive, in no small part, the success of downtown.  Business pay attention to this and prospective residents pay attention to this as well.  And I can tell you first hand that several Walnut Hills grads are at the forefront of some of the change you are seeing right now both in and around downtown.

jmecklenborg,

you must have went to a better school than I because I did not understand what in this world your last post meant.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 15, 2007, 02:47:23 PM
I know the extreme importance of good schools in order to make the inner-city attractive to many people, but the conversation has degraded to something different from that actual discussion.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 15, 2007, 02:48:41 PM
I don't know if anybody saw this, but it's from April's Urban Land Institute publication:

Renaisance on the River (http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/city/downloads/city_pdf16093.pdf)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on June 15, 2007, 06:46:03 PM
The key to the significance of Walnut and to a lesser extent SCPA, is to try imagine saving Cincinnati without it and its graduates. Going forward we should add Clark to the list. Not going to happen.

Interesting aside, Purcell Marian was actually supposed to be where Walnut Hills was eventually built, the archbishop owned the land and had announced the school, but was 'strongly encouraged' to let CPS build their school there, so Purcell ended up in the heart of Walnut Hills instead on a very fine campus.

One of the saddest things that happened to downtown actually was the fact that all the Catholic schools packed up and moved to the suburbs. They had decent reasons, but other similar schools didn't do that in other cities. Imagine the benefits to downtown with hard working students floating around and having the real urban experience. It would also help with all our hopes for Mass Transit and connecting people to the CBD. Many of the Catholic high schools can still trace their history through some period of time spent downtown. There would be forms of real life in downtown that wasn't dominated by adults and people with issues.

As an example, St. Joseph's Prep in Philly stayed in the heart of North Philly and they are about to have an alumni as mayor there and the school is still the dominant one in the city, comparable only to their version of Walnut, which is Central and Girls High Schools.

Jmeck... it certainly felt like we drinking rum and spending life at the end of a lash... especially when it came to the Indian subcontinent...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 29, 2007, 07:25:00 AM
Below-market prices attract two tenants to 600 Vine
Aggressive rates help building, hinder rents at other sites

Tempting rental rates and below-average operating expenses have attracted two new tenants to the Center at 600 Vine, pushing the building's occupancy up to one-third.  Jack Rouse Associates, an international design firm specializing in entertainment facilities and museum exhibits, will move its corporate headquarters from the Kroger building into 20,000 square feet this year.

Cadence Network, a utility expense management company, left the Fourth & Walnut Center in June to occupy 20,000 square feet in the Sixth and Vine building.  They'll help fill a glut of space left by Convergys Corp. in 2006 when it bought and moved into the Atrium II building.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/07/02/story14.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/07/02/story14.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on June 29, 2007, 07:36:51 AM
So are these new tenants to downtown or just moving people around through dropping rental rates?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 29, 2007, 08:26:02 AM
Sounds like people simply upgrading their spaces, for a good price.  The intriguing part is that:

Quote
He's leased about 80,000 square feet in the building in the last year and has proposals out for the rest, about 370,000 square feet. Some of the proposals are to very large potential tenants.

There must be something in the air, because I have heard comments from others about the potential of a couple new major tenants for downtown office space.  I imagine that they all won't come through, but I have faith that 600 Vine and QCS II might both land one.  That is what I am gauging from the talks I have heard.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on June 29, 2007, 08:44:18 AM
I hope they are new to downtown or new to the metro area. Just moving people around downtown just means you still have the same vacancy rate and employment numbers. The one big issue about lower rental rates (if it becomes widespread) is it usually means demand is not supporting current rent numbers and it may also hurt future building projects because most construction projects have to have a certain rental rate per square foot or they can't get financing. Commercial is very much like residential, if demand is low prices go down and the undercutting of your neighbors property to lease the space begins.

There is a reason why the RE industry feels lower rental rates or prices of homes is not a good thing. It general hurts future projects and shows a lack of demand. With that said, if these new major leases happen and they are new to the downtown market that is a good thing.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Michael L. Redmond on June 29, 2007, 08:53:09 AM
Quote
it usually means demand is not supporting current rent numbers and it may also hurt future building projects because most construction projects have to have a certain rental rate per square foot or they can't get financing.

Or it could mean Hertz realized that they could lower rates while still producing their desired yield.
Now I am no rocket surgeon, but if I can have an occupied building by offering a lower lease rate and at the same time lower my expenses, it seems to me that building has a higher value than having held out for a higher rate while sitting on an empty building, especially in a competitive leasing market like we have in CBD.  Good move if you ask me.

Quote
A real estate tax reduction allows the building's owner, California-based Hertz Investment Group, to offer lower operating expenses of $7.78 per square foot, about $1-$2 per square foot less than other buildings.

Quote
construction projects have to have a certain rental rate per square foot or they can't get financing.

Rental Rates alone to get financing means little, it is just a piece of the equation-- yield is king.

Quote
Just moving people around downtown just means you still have the same vacancy rate and employment numbers.
Not necessarily.  You are assuming that there is no increase in space or that the money saved in the lease doesn't get allocated to increasing other operating expenses, such as additional employees or perhaps both.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on June 29, 2007, 09:15:41 AM
Quote
it usually means demand is not supporting current rent numbers and it may also hurt future building projects because most construction projects have to have a certain rental rate per square foot or they can't get financing.

Or it could mean Hertz realized that they could lower rates while still producing their desired yield.
Now I am no rocket surgeon, but if I can have an occupied building by offering a lower lease rate and at the same time lower my expenses, it seems to me that building has a higher value than having held out for a higher rate while sitting on an empty building, especially in a competitive leasing market like we have in CBD.  Good move if you ask me.

Quote
A real estate tax reduction allows the building's owner, California-based Hertz Investment Group, to offer lower operating expenses of $7.78 per square foot, about $1-$2 per square foot less than other buildings.

Quote
construction projects have to have a certain rental rate per square foot or they can't get financing.

Rental Rates to get financing means little to nothing, yield is king.

I never said it wasn't a good move for the building owner! I said, it does very little for downtown if you just move people around. Nor does it do a lot of good for the other building owners if they then have to lower rates (without having a real estate tax reduction) to attract tenants. That would mean those other building would then end up with a much lower desired yield.

Michael,
You work in the RE industry. Are you telling mean that it good to just move people around with out increasing demand for a product and at the same time potential creating dropping rental rates and lower overall yields for downtown office space?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Michael L. Redmond on June 29, 2007, 09:26:20 AM
Quote
Michael,
You work in the RE industry. Are you telling mean that it good to just move people around with out increasing demand for a product and at the same time potential creating dropping rental rates and lower overall yields for downtown office space?

I am telling you that his drop in leasing rates does not mean "demand is not supporting current rent numbers."  It means that this one building owner made a wise move in a competitive marketplace, hence "prices attract two tenants to 600 Vine."
And because I do work in the industry I can't imagine having a conversation with this owner and saying not to do this.

Quote
at the same time potential creating dropping rental rates and lower overall yields for downtown office space?
Other building owners will not take the hit on yield and therefor will not follow this one owners lead simply because he found a savings where others may have not.  He dropped rates and can maintain his yield, others can not, and therefor will not.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on June 29, 2007, 09:36:25 AM
^^ This type of thing happens all of the time in CBD's. Can someone fill me in on what is new here?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 29, 2007, 09:48:48 AM
Lease rates aside, these moves are generally good for several reasons.  First, most tenants are "moving up" in terms of their space (C to B, B to A).  Second, I would guess most tenants usually grow in terms of space.  Finally, aside from lease rates, most tenants will move to take advantages in space efficiency.  For example, the 20,000 s.f. tenant may have had 17,000 s.f. in their old building in 3 or 4 locations on 2 different floors.  By moving, they get a large block of contiguous space, and free up space in their previous building for other tenants to expand, increasing efficiency yet again.  Some of these other tenants may even move out of downtown if there is no expansion room or not enough contiguous space available since large blocks of space do not come along very often and there is not a lot of new construction.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on June 29, 2007, 09:58:10 AM
Quote
Michael,
You work in the RE industry. Are you telling mean that it good to just move people around with out increasing demand for a product and at the same time potential creating dropping rental rates and lower overall yields for downtown office space?

I am telling you that his drop in leasing rates does not mean "demand is not supporting current rent numbers."  It means that this one building owner made a wise move in a competitive marketplace, hence "prices attract two tenants to 600 Vine."
And because I do work in the industry I can't imagine having a conversation with this owner and saying not to do this.

Quote
at the same time potential creating dropping rental rates and lower overall yields for downtown office space?
Other building owners will not take the hit on yield and therefor will not follow this one owners lead simply because he found a savings where others may have not.  He dropped rates and can maintain his yield, others can not, and therefor will not.

I agree, if this is a one time event no one else will drop rental rates to compete for tenants. But what happens if they do this again for the other 370,000 square feet and other building do feel the need to protect their current tenant list and match these numbers?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 29, 2007, 10:15:47 AM
What if...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Michael L. Redmond on June 29, 2007, 01:19:51 PM
Quote
But what happens if they do this again for the other 370,000 square feet and other building do feel the need to protect their current tenant list and match these numbers?

Are you still searching for any thread of evidence that the markets are all crashing?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on June 29, 2007, 02:45:43 PM
Quote
But what happens if they do this again for the other 370,000 square feet and other building do feel the need to protect their current tenant list and match these numbers?

Are you still searching for any thread of evidence that the markets are all crashing?

No, the article said they are look to lease out the rest of the space the same way.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Michael L. Redmond on June 29, 2007, 03:24:54 PM
As Cincy Rise said, this happens all the time.  I see the upside on this deal as possibly attracting in someone from outside of the CBD of Cincy as well. Plus providing an opportunity for some to move from B to A or expansion. 

Trust me when I say that rental rates across the board will not come crashing down.  This building had an opportunity to attract new tenants because of a tax issue allowing for flexibility, thats all.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on June 29, 2007, 03:38:08 PM
As Cincy Rise said, this happens all the time.  I see the upside on this deal as possibly attracting in someone from outside of the CBD of Cincy as well. Plus providing an opportunity for some to move from B to A or expansion. 

Trust me when I say that rental rates across the board will not come crashing down.  This building had an opportunity to attract new tenants because of a tax issue allowing for flexibility, thats all.

Actually only you said anything about rental rates crashing etc... You won't find that in any of my post. Nice try though.

So far they have only attracted tenants from other downtown buildings.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 29, 2007, 04:55:08 PM
de Cavel plans new bar

Chef Jean-Robert de Cavel, operator of Jean-Robert at Pigall’s and Jean-Ro Bistro in downtown Cincinnati, plans to add to his galaxy of French-themed restaurants with a lounge at the site of the former Dodd Jewelers on Fourth Street. The site is adjacent to Pigall’s.

“We are almost ready to make a deal,” de Cavel said today. “We need to be able to have walk-through from Pigall’s to the space and we are looking into the permits now.”  Not yet named, his proposed club will hold about 80 seats with café and coffee tables.  The new space will feel more like a lounge than a restaurant.

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070629/BIZ01/306290049 (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070629/BIZ01/306290049)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 29, 2007, 06:40:39 PM
>The lounge is the latest move for the restaurateur’s growing enterprise

And meanwhile Nat Commisar makes biweekly appearances on Stump the Band...but what's Nat going to do after Gary retires this year?  Classic case of the kid ruining the family business.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 29, 2007, 07:05:54 PM
Yeah...whatever happened to the re-opening of the Masoinette near Kenwood Towne Centre!?!?  I thought that downtown's retail/dining scene was to blame for his restaurants closure.  hmmm....

Another example of the city getting thrown under the bus for someone else's incompetence.  Way to go Comisar's, you have successfully missed out on the resurgence of Downtown Cincinnati.  I wonder how de Cavel even gets by??
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 29, 2007, 07:17:41 PM
Amen!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Neville on June 30, 2007, 12:00:10 AM
The city needs to work to get all of Cincinnati Bell's office space, call centers, and training facilities back downtown. After Convergys bought Atrium II, Bell moved most everything to the Norwood facility shared with Convergys. I think it would be great to have Bell back downtown and out of Norwood. It ain't "Norwood Bell."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on June 30, 2007, 12:04:56 PM
>The lounge is the latest move for the restaurateur?s growing enterprise

And meanwhile Nat Commisar makes biweekly appearances on Stump the Band...but what's Nat going to do after Gary retires this year?  Classic case of the kid ruining the family business.   

Nat Commisar is doing very well in real estate as an agent for SibcyCline.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 30, 2007, 06:11:40 PM
The city needs to work to get all of Cincinnati Bell's office space, call centers, and training facilities back downtown. After Convergys bought Atrium II, Bell moved most everything to the Norwood facility shared with Convergys. I think it would be great to have Bell back downtown and out of Norwood. It ain't "Norwood Bell."

Uh oh, be careful...I mentioned before that it would be nice if some of the local corporations moved their call centers and other various operations downtown.  The response from the other forumers pretty much was that downtown is too good for those types of jobs (whatever that means).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on June 30, 2007, 08:34:27 PM
^Are you refering to my post about how having a call center downtown isn't a good idea if they don't pay very high wages? Cities like Cincinnati will only incentivize businesses to locate here if it offers high paying jobs. They don't just want growth, they want to improve the quality of life and increase the amount of tax revenue they can collect. Higher paying jobs are better for the city and the residents. Patrick Ewing, one of the economic development officers for Cincinnati specifically said that. Probably why he was so excited to show our class renderings of One River Plaza (EXPENSIVE units!). I did a little bit of research and found out USBank's call center pays like 12 bucks an hour though--I'm all for that being downtown!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Neville on June 30, 2007, 08:36:49 PM
CBT's call center Reps make 40-50k per year. That isn't high paying? They answer phones!

And most of the employees at the Norwood facility, from what I know, make 30k+. I think those are high enough paying jobs to relocate dt.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on June 30, 2007, 08:39:37 PM
That's fine. Actually that's probably more than what I'll make when I'm out of college with debt and that kinda pisses me off. My stance wasn't against call centers in general. I know that Delta's downtown requires you to be on call 7 days a week...a job like that should be high paying.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Neville on June 30, 2007, 08:41:42 PM
CBT's call centers make that much money because they are Union. They work 40hrs a week and have call handle time restrictions...etc. I, personally, don't think they should make more than 40k. There are some people in the call center who make damn near 65k. That's absurd, but what you get when you work in a union. They are also the reason CBT moved out of dt
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on June 30, 2007, 08:50:37 PM
Kroger was union.. I paid my union fees. I made minimum wage there with my superior cart pushing and people skills. Is that justice?!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Neville on June 30, 2007, 08:57:59 PM
no. You had to fork over a portion of your hard earned income to a union group that probably did nothing for you.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Quimbob on June 30, 2007, 09:28:35 PM
That's fine. Actually that's probably more than what I'll make when I'm out of college with debt and that kinda pisses me off. My stance wasn't against call centers in general. I know that Delta's downtown requires you to be on call 7 days a week...a job like that should be high paying.
Union workers & trades workers pretty much have a cap on their earnings. For a professional, there really is no cap.
A young person in a trade/union job makes good money early on with a small investment in learning his job. A pro makes a more substantial investment at the outset and frequently doesn't make much in his first years on the job.
and no, I am not talking about absolutes.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: X on June 30, 2007, 09:57:29 PM
CBT's call centers make that much money because they are Union. They work 40hrs a week and have call handle time restrictions...etc. I, personally, don't think they should make more than 40k. There are some people in the call center who make damn near 65k. That's absurd, but what you get when you work in a union. They are also the reason CBT moved out of dt

Wow! Of all the crazy things for someone to be upset about, you're upset that some people are making a good wage for their work?!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Neville on June 30, 2007, 10:01:44 PM
They make more than my roommate at Bell who is a manager and has a degree. the call center reps are just hourly. I'm not upset they make good money (too much money in my opinion). I'm upset that CBT isn't more invested dt.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: X on June 30, 2007, 10:15:29 PM
They make more to start than a manager does?  Or more after 5 years than a manager does to start?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Neville on June 30, 2007, 10:16:44 PM
more to start than a manager
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 01, 2007, 12:17:48 PM
That's fine. Actually that's probably more than what I'll make when I'm out of college with debt and that kinda pisses me off. My stance wasn't against call centers in general. I know that Delta's downtown requires you to be on call 7 days a week...a job like that should be high paying.

Just an FYI for you David, you should expect to be paid 35-40k starting out.  Of course this depends upon what part of the country, public/private, etc.  The key part also is that while some other positions may start out at more (ie General Manager of a restaurant), they have much fewer opportunities to move up and will most likely max out at a much lower salary than what someone with a degree required job will.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on July 02, 2007, 09:48:10 AM
That's fine. Actually that's probably more than what I'll make when I'm out of college with debt and that kinda pisses me off. My stance wasn't against call centers in general. I know that Delta's downtown requires you to be on call 7 days a week...a job like that should be high paying.

Just an FYI for you David, you should expect to be paid 35-40k starting out.  Of course this depends upon what part of the country, public/private, etc.  The key part also is that while some other positions may start out at more (ie General Manager of a restaurant), they have much fewer opportunities to move up and will most likely max out at a much lower salary than what someone with a degree required job will.

Not if you are a teacher. They should make more, but they don't. Actually many professions that require a degree don't start out at these levels.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 02, 2007, 10:26:10 AM
^He's a planner (Bachelor of Urban Planning), from the great University of Cincinnati!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on July 03, 2007, 08:51:53 AM
If you take a look at most starting planning positions in the midwest or other similar cost of living locations a planner starting out will only make between $30,000 an maybe $35,000. If you are willing to go to the coast you can make more but the cost of living goes way up. Most of the time when you see a Planner 1 or Associate Planner position you can assume your pay will be towards the low end of the pay range.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on July 03, 2007, 09:37:16 AM
Personally, I plan on working at a private firm. I don't think you work as many hours in the public sector.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ragerunner on July 03, 2007, 04:01:48 PM
Personally, I plan on working at a private firm. I don't think you work as many hours in the public sector.

You are correct, if you going into a private firm usually the money is a little better but the hours are a lot more.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on July 03, 2007, 05:03:48 PM
... if you going into a private firm usually the money is a little better but the hours are a lot more.

Don't listen to someone about career advice when they type like an uneducated hoodlum. ;)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on July 03, 2007, 10:30:45 PM
Personally, I plan on working at a private firm. I don't think you work as many hours in the public sector.

You are correct, if you going into a private firm usually the money is a little better but the hours are a lot more.

Usually the money is a lot better.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 08, 2007, 04:10:52 PM
Fausto's personality and good $12 haircut keep 'em coming back

Fausto Ferrari has been cutting hair at the same barber shop on Garfield Place for 50 years.  Same job. Same location. Same barber chairs. And no plans to retire anytime soon.  The shop of the Italian immigrant - an American citizen since 1964 - has survived numerous development plans that threatened to displace his business over the decades, but a lack of customers has never been a concern. They keep coming back.

"You could almost make a sitcom out of this place," said John Schmitz, a portfolio manager at Bahl & Gaynor Investment Counsel who's been a customer there for 18 years. "It's just like Cheers, except it's the barbershop."  With all the bankers and power brokers he serves, Ferrari gets lots of tips, but says he's never gotten any good stock tips. He credits his staying power to his simple work ethic - "I keep working every day, nothing special." - and an understanding wife in Clifton.

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070708/BIZ01/707080340/1076/BIZ (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070708/BIZ01/707080340/1076/BIZ)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on July 12, 2007, 11:16:06 PM
I've been there a couple of times when I've been in town and in need of a haircut. Everyone should check this place out at least once.  It's like going back in time to when you were a kid and your dad would take you to the barber shop. There are also a couple of interesting characters that sit in the chairs and go on about whatever.  It's a trip.

Too bad he doesn't do the hot towel shaves anymore.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on July 15, 2007, 01:21:14 PM
Personally, I plan on working at a private firm. I don't think you work as many hours in the public sector.
You are correct, if you going into a private firm usually the money is a little better but the hours are a lot more.

Usually the money is a lot better.

Salary almost always depends on the size and location of the jurisdiction that's hiring you. Rural and small town jurisdictions usually pay less than those in large metro areas or large cities. And private sector is not that much more than public, often with fewer immediate benefits, less time off, and an expectation of more hours worked and/or late nights and/or travel.

I personally am a private sector urban designer and I get 120 "flex" vacation/sick hours a year. My friend is a planner for the state, and gets 190 vacation hours and 80 hours of sick time.

In my private sector experience, I have seen a notable number of planners hit mid-career and go into the development sector to increase their income. I would estimate that there is an income "cap" as a planner of about $125,000 plus benefits. Flip that 15 or so years of experience into working for a developer and I think you start at that salary and go up from there.

I would say, though, when it's all said and done that the difference between public sector and private sector planning isn't so much about how much you make or even what you do, it's about which "driving force" do you want to work under: Having to justify everything you do politically, or financially.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on July 15, 2007, 01:43:52 PM
Is there a big market for land-use attorneys? It doesn't seem like a very popular specialization of law.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on July 15, 2007, 06:30:18 PM
yep
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on July 28, 2007, 07:45:25 AM
HOLY CRAP!  Did the Enquirer get a new editor or something?  Again, NOTL it was nice knowing you.


Downtown's hopping again
Revamped Square, new restaurants and nightclubs a hit

More than a decade after the city of Cincinnati poured millions into the so-called Backstage Entertainment District in hopes of sparking downtown nightlife, the blocks north of Fountain Square are finally catching fire.  Last year's renovation of Fountain Square itself gets a lot of the credit, having given investors added assurance that downtown has turned the corner.

But it seems to be a combination of factors in addition to Fountain Square - more residents, improved public safety measures and more effective leadership at City Hall and from Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) - that is finally drawing a critical mass of businesses and people to downtown streets after 6 p.m.

The estimated 40,000 visitors descending on downtown for the annual Macy's Music Festival this weekend will find that activity along Seventh and Walnut streets has increased considerably since last year with the opening of several chain-based venues: Sully's Sports Bar & Grill, The Lodge Bar and Cadillac Ranch Rock-N-Country Bar & Grill.

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070728/BIZ01/707280366 (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070728/BIZ01/707280366)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 28, 2007, 03:14:14 PM
HOLY CRAP!  Did the Enquirer get a new editor or something?  Again, NOTL it was nice knowing you.

The clock is certainly ticking for NOTL...if they don't make some serious improvements and/or investments there soon, then I give it another 2-3 years of gradual decline.  Then phase 1 of The Banks will hit the scene and all bets are off.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: buildingcincinnati on July 28, 2007, 05:00:54 PM
This story was unexpected.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on July 29, 2007, 09:24:40 AM
I wasn't sure that this was the best place to post this, but it seems to be more of a follow up to the Jon Newberry article as well as an example of what we have all been hoping to see downtown.

Festival rocks riverfront
Business owners, leaders call it 'Christmas in July'

There's no snow. No freezing temperatures.  But there is winter holiday excitement downtown this weekend for the Macy's Music Festival, Chicago Cubs' visit and other entertainment and cultural activities.  The biggest gift under the tree went to The National Underground Railroad Freedom Center, which broke attendance records with 6,300 visitors Saturday, a free-admission day.

Hotels are booked. Restaurant waiters have been sweating and scurrying to keep up with crowds. And though one Fourth Street vendor said sales were drowned by Friday night's rain, Saturday's weather appeared to improve sales.  "Jazz Fest (Macy's Music Festival) is like Christmas in July for us," said Gus Miller, longtime owner of Batsakes Hat Shop at Sixth and Race streets. A veteran of festivals, he called in extra help for business that started "briskly at 8 a.m." Saturday.

Read full article here:
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070729/NEWS01/707290425/-1/CINCI (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070729/NEWS01/707290425/-1/CINCI)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 29, 2007, 12:15:22 PM
I can only imagine out-of-towner's reactions when The Banks is built.  Downtown is getting very close to turning that proverbial corner.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on July 29, 2007, 01:33:50 PM
What's gotten into the Enquirer lately - the good thing is that things must be picking up steam because we know they would not err on the side of being overly positive.  Let's keep the ball rolling. 

On a side note, I went to the Reds game with a group of people on Friday, and the In Between was packed, as usual, on a game day.  I really like that bar for its neighborhood quality, and it would be nice if they could make it larger.  I think they open the parking lot for Bengals games.  We also started talking to two guys who had just driven from Long Island, and they were quite impressed with the city and stadium.  I did have to bite my lip on the fact that Broadway Commons would have been much better.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 29, 2007, 02:03:51 PM
I recently was part of a conversation where a guy was discussing what he thought about the different MLB ballparks he's been to (30 or so).  When asked about GABP he said it was nice, but that there is just another arena and parking lots around it...and that really kills what could be a fantastic atmosphere.  When The Banks is complete (even just phase 1) it will do wonders for the ballpark atmosphere down at Reds games.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on July 30, 2007, 11:50:54 AM
The proverbial corner has already been turned!  I am just as excited to see the banks done but I was downtown all weekend with out of towners and though they question the vast openness in between the stadia, it is a split second question/thought and they get taken back by something else.  The banks is not going to make or break the momentum going on currently.  It WILL HELP though but there are to many other things in motion north of Second St that is making peoples jaws drop who haven't been here within the past year.  The  '07 energy is definitely electrifying.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 30, 2007, 11:59:29 AM
I took some relatives on a tour of downtown a few months ago.  It was a Saturday afternoon, with ZERO events going on...and downtown was still very active.  My cousin (35 or so with a family, who has lived in both Cbus and Toledo) made a comment about how much activity was prevalent downtown on a non-business day.

That comment made my month!  Oh, and btw they (cousin and his two children) loved Carew's observation deck and were also impressed with the changes made to Fountain Square.  The videoboard was another big hit with them, but the shear amount of activity is what sold it...restaurants were busy, people were out and about, lots of people enjoying the square.  All in all they were very impressed/surprised.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 30, 2007, 12:05:48 PM
I had a co-worker who was on their way back to Atlanta from Dayton, and said that they could not find an available hotel room from Dayton to Lexington.  I guess the Cincinnati market can handle a few more hotel rooms.

'A complete success'
Events brought in big crowds

While the final tally is not yet in, local leaders and tourism officials say one thing comes to mind when thinking of this past weekend's mix of sports, cultural and music in downtown Cincinnati.  "A complete success," said Melinda Kruyer of Go Downtown, an organization promoting restaurants in downtown Cincinnati.

She said several downtown restaurants, including Palomino, Nicholson's and Jeff Ruby's had reported large crowds over the weekend.  "A lot of places had extended hours and late-night happy hours to take advantage of the crowds. Everyone has been so busy, there is a lot of restaurants I haven't been able to talk to yet," she said.

Read full article here:
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070730/NEWS01/707300360 (http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070730/NEWS01/707300360)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on July 30, 2007, 12:13:14 PM
It's that type of impression and perception that is making this thing take hold, even with the younger kids coming out of high school.  I was in high school in the nineties and nobody had anything good to say about downtown, even me.   I overheard a group of about ten high school suburban kids talking about haw there is so much to do in this city.   I bout fell off my chair to hear the younger kids having the same feelings that many of us have.  (Suburban kids at that)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on July 31, 2007, 09:04:30 AM
DCI has posted the results of the 2007 downtown survey.  The results are extremely positive and can be accessed here:

http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/PDFs/2007_Downtown_Cincinnati_Survey_Results.pdf

almost every category is up over 2006.

My favorite quotation:

" Urbanists value diversity and socializing
Urbanists value what city has to offer
Those witha strong urban mindset are most distinct in
taking initiative to spend time downtown, embracing diversity
and having an active social life.
They are also more likely to go to museums, art galleries,
festivals/parades, seek outunique shopping, go to
bars/clubs, enjoy events withtradition/historical
focus, and attend performing arts or young professionals
events."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on July 31, 2007, 12:28:10 PM
^ Too bad the survey mentioned that the number two source for primary info about downtown (at 65%) is the daily newspaper.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on July 31, 2007, 02:00:34 PM
DCI has posted the results of the 2007 downtown survey.  The results are extremely positive and can be accessed here:

http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/PDFs/2007_Downtown_Cincinnati_Survey_Results.pdf

almost every category is up over 2006.

My favorite quotation:

" Urbanists value diversity and socializing
Urbanists value what city has to offer
Those witha strong urban mindset are most distinct in
taking initiative to spend time downtown, embracing diversity
and having an active social life.
They are also more likely to go to museums, art galleries,
festivals/parades, seek outunique shopping, go to
bars/clubs, enjoy events withtradition/historical
focus, and attend performing arts or young professionals
events."
We needed a study to figure that out?! LOL.
IMO downtown Cincinnati should focus on attracting people from other cities, not suburbanites that don't appreciate the inner city (eww...theres like...nowhere to park). Someone said something really great on this forum one time about how people outside of the city aren't really desirable people to have in it; simply because they don't have that mindset. I guess you can convert a certain amount of people but overall I think people either just like that atmosphere or don't.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on August 02, 2007, 05:34:23 AM
Making Young People Happy Means Success for Cities

Giving into what the young and restless want is essential to the long-term success of Cincinnati's downtown and suburbs, says the state director of Greater Ohio.  Walkable, dense communities with brick buildings, trendy restaurants and no box stores, said Gene Krebs, who has been Greater Ohio's state director since 2004.

Greater Ohio is a Columbus-based organization dedicated to better land use in the state. It promotes "smart growth" policies focused on accommodating population shifts while maintaining a good quality of life.  Krebs spoke at the National Building Museum on Monday about Ohio's progress since it began advancing smart growth issues three years ago. He said Ohio is in "a dim state" as far as intelligent land use goes, but Cincinnati is beginning realize what it takes to design and build successful communities.

"People in Cincinnati have got to start thinking of themselves as living in a 'commute shed' and that their fortunes and the fortunes of their region rise and fall on the commute shed," Krebs said. A commute shed is the area surrounding a city that includes everyone who travels to the city. "They need to look at some of their out-of-date government planning and say, 'This was good for the age of the horse, but is it really that good for the age of the computer chip?'"

Read full article here:
http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/24281/ (http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/24281/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on August 02, 2007, 07:15:25 AM
^I still think the thesis of this article is absurd.  A city is dynamic first and foremost if it provides economic opportunity, and secondly if it is an incubator of culture.  You need more than just spoiled twenty-somethings for that.  Also, "happiness" is a laundry list of items that you can apply to every consumer.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on August 02, 2007, 12:25:41 PM
^^ Yeah LK is right. The world is not all YPs. First if you provide plenty of economic opportunity, you create more YPs, who can them become APs with children. There is also the rest of society that benefits for economically vibrant and dynamic cities in ways that a thousand Hyde Parks just don't.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 02, 2007, 12:40:34 PM
The whole young professional and creative class thing ignores the fact that many if not most young adults either don't care about where they live and work or they are attached to a particular locale due to a family health situation (or it's never really occured to them to move).  Then there are people who move haphazardly just to get away from their parents or an ex-girlfriend or boyfriend.   

The only big change I've detected recently are the hordes of college girls moving to New York after graduation looking to live their own Sex & the City episode.  Personally I can feel my testicles shriveling up just flipping past that show and so don't really know what it's about, but it's clear that it has had a profound effect on how young girls think about cities and New York in particular. 


>Have you ever tried walking to Wal-Mart? It makes your palms sweat and your feet hurt just thinking about it.

Oh bother.  When I lived in Tennessee I liked to hike an 11 mile loop in a state park, and the ROTC guys would jog it carrying mortar shells on their shoulders that looked like they weighed about 30lbs.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 02, 2007, 01:10:33 PM

The difference between hiking and walking to Walmart is that hiking is fun; something you do for recreation. It is not fun to walk along the side of a wide road where people are going 45 mph right next to you. Walmart is a place you go to buy massive quantities of items. It's not practical to walk.

I think that the talented professionals they're talking about are more likely to travel and live in other cities. As far as my friends go, the smarter they are, the more likely they are to want to get out of Cincinnati and the midwest in general, to gain new experiences. The only problem I have is that they're making it sound like the 20-something yuppies living on credit are going to save our cities, and they're not. Cities need talented people in general. Talented people working in the growing industries, as well as immigrants who tend to do jobs Americans don't want to do, cheaply.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 02, 2007, 01:21:07 PM
It is not fun to walk along the side of a wide road where people are going 45 mph right next to you.

Well you just summed up a typical walking experience along Peachtree Street here in Atlanta; and of course almost ALL streets for that matter.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on August 02, 2007, 01:53:23 PM
^I once walked from the Buckhead Metro Station all the way down Peachtree to Arts Center.  And it wasn't because I am creative.  It was because I kept thinking, "Okay, they'll be a station over that next hill."  I also never quite understood what is meant by, "the young and talented".  Most of the people I went to college with, whom I assume are the YP demographic, were anything but talented.  And their reasons for living where they did weren't profound.  Anybody can justify a move to New York.  There's a kid I work with now who wants to go to college in NYC.  He's a nice guy, relatively anti-social.  Doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, doesn't go out to bars, doesn't pick up girls, isn't artistic in a creative or performing arts way.  He has very well defined and eclectic taste in rock music, however (he's the only guy here who knows who the Pixies are besides myself, and he's 22 or something).  I said to him, "So you want to move to New York so you can listen to bands?"  Aside from the, "It's just a cool place argument" he gave, I think I pretty much called it.  There's nothing particularly creative or value-added about that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: BallHatGuy on August 02, 2007, 02:02:29 PM
he's the only guy here who knows who the Pixies are besides myself, and he's 22 or something

Off topic but . . . "Doolittle" is one of the best CD/Albums of all time in my opinion.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 02, 2007, 02:45:37 PM
>I think that the talented professionals they're talking about are more likely to travel and live in other cities. As far as my friends go, the smarter they are, the more likely they are to want to get out of Cincinnati and the midwest in general, to gain new experiences. The only problem I have is that they're making it sound like the 20-something yuppies living on credit are going to save our cities, and they're not.


Emerson:

It is for want of self-culture that the superstition of Travelling, whose
idols are Italy, England, Egypt, retains its fascination for all educated
Americans. They who made England, Italy, or Greece venerable in the
imagination did so by sticking fast where they were, like an axis of the
earth. In manly hours, we feel that duty is our place. The soul is no
traveller; the wise man stays at home, and when his necessities, his duties,
on any occasion call him from his house, or into foreign lands, he is at
home still, and shall make men sensible by the expression of his
countenance, that he goes the missionary of wisdom and virtue, and visits
cities and men like a sovereign, and not like an interloper or a valet.
I have no churlish objection to the circumnavigation of the globe, for the
purposes of art, of study, and benevolence, so that the man is first
domesticated, or does not go abroad with the hope of finding somewhat
greater than he knows. He who travels to be amused, or to get somewhat which
he does not carry, travels away from himself, and grows old even in youth
among old things. In Thebes, in Palmyra, his will and mind have become old
and dilapidated as they. He carries ruins to ruins.

Travelling is a fool's paradise. Our first journeys discover to us the
indifference of places. At home I dream that at Naples, at Rome, I can be
intoxicated with beauty, and lose my sadness. I pack my trunk, embrace my
friends, embark on the sea, and at last wake up in Naples, and there beside
me is the stern fact, the sad self, unrelenting, identical, that I fled
from. I seek the Vatican, and the palaces. I affect to be intoxicated with
sights and suggestions, but I am not intoxicated. My giant goes with me
wherever I go.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 02, 2007, 02:57:20 PM
^That's very thought provoking and poetic but it's not making anyone content with living in East St. Louis.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: MyTwoSense on August 02, 2007, 03:00:57 PM
^That's very thought provoking and poetic but it's not making anyone content with living in East St. Louis.

Speaking from personal experience?! ESL is no joke!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on August 02, 2007, 03:58:49 PM
he's the only guy here who knows who the Pixies are besides myself, and he's 22 or something

Off topic but . . . "Doolittle" is one of the best CD/Albums of all time in my opinion.

Continuing the off topic - ever notice how the much the guitar on Debaser sounds like Sugar's Good Idea (actually this should be reversed)?  Also, Where Is My Mind has to be one of most well placed songs in movies at the end of Fight Club.  Sorry for the interruption.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: RiverViewer on August 02, 2007, 04:31:34 PM
I just read through this whole thread, and I don't know if I've seen any that took more off-topic tangents in stride...Walnut Hills High School and ATL v CVG and catholic education and just wage theory and hiking and music...kinda funny...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 03, 2007, 12:12:40 PM
EDIT: Moved Post to here
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=13733.0
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on August 03, 2007, 10:44:52 PM
On LK and the whole YP issue . . . The simple presence of Proctor and Gamble and Federated and to a lesser extent the banks and law firms means that young professional types who are at least nominally intelligent will be cycling through the area for hopefully quite a long time. So all in all I'm not worried about them. As long as urbanism continues to gain adherents then the city will be there for them. Some will always flee to the suburbs and well the suburbs can have them. Hopefully as things continue to develop more will be drawn closer to the core.
The creative class is even lamer. I mean I guess I'm supposed to be part of the creative class, nearly a PhD in urban history. My wife is a composer, all cutting-edge electronic music. I can guarantee you that we cannot single-handedly save a city or make it particularly cool. Now maybe that's just us, but graduate school does not really provide the sort of resources to build an urban renaissance around.

Jmeck on traveling . . . Somewhere else always seems better to you get there and spend a couple months. I have found it nearly always gives me a greater appreciation of Cincinnati (especially two months in the middle of winter in Philly), though Hawaii is pretty special.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on August 04, 2007, 12:04:55 AM
I can guarantee you that we cannot single-handedly save a city or make it particularly cool.

why not? a single person can push debate in a direction by their mere presence, you can do whatever you want.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 04, 2007, 01:30:35 PM
So very inspirational!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 04, 2007, 01:43:34 PM
I agree! People singlehandedly start trends. Many times they don't even realize it. It has to start somewhere.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on August 04, 2007, 07:08:18 PM
"The Tipping Point" comes to mind and there is an example of how a group of hipsters in New York made Hush Puppies cool across the country.  If you have not read this book it is very interesting.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 04, 2007, 07:13:00 PM
"The Tipping Point" comes to mind and there is an example of how a group of hipsters in New York made Hush Puppies cool across the country.  If you have not read this book it is very interesting.

Along with a story about a slight drop in healthcare funding causing an STD epidemic in new parts of Baltimore  :-o
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on August 04, 2007, 07:34:14 PM
Yes - that was extremely enlightening - it's amazing how little changes have huge impacts.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 04, 2007, 08:05:31 PM
>cannot single-handedly save a city or make it particularly cool. Now maybe that's just us, but graduate school does not really provide the sort of resources to build an urban renaissance around.

The media creates facts and perceptions, it gives credibility to things that are out there happening randomly.  It connects dots that have nothing to do with each other (false cognates, etc.) and labels something a trend or a scene or a "growing crisis".  What's really funny is there's a new cable channel called "Ovation" and they have a promo bit that goes "...where do the artists hang out?" as though Ovation is going to give you this insight into Factory-type groups and obscure bars and parties where great ideas and movements are born.   

>Jmeck on traveling . . . Somewhere else always seems better to you get there and spend a couple months. I have found it nearly always gives me a greater appreciation of Cincinnati (especially two months in the middle of winter in Philly), though Hawaii is pretty special.

I've known a couple of people so eager to get out of town and so convinced that place X is better that when they come to this realization they keep on frustratingly lauding place X and knocking the hometown even though they know they're wrong.  All that's symptomatic of someone's maturity, and so when you pick up on this brace for some more ridiculous observations and opinions.  Obviously if you're from a very small town or a dying industrial town that's one thing, but bitter Cincinnati natives are another.  The classic "it's so hard to meet people in Cincinnati" should be more like "it's hard to meet people EVERYWHERE".  I've moved probably 3 times to situations where I knew ZERO people, and you just have to deal with it.  If you're serious about making new friends, you need to be out there every day and every night trying to make it happen until you get there.       

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 04, 2007, 09:51:44 PM
I see your point Jake, I just don't think it's fair to say place is entirely irrelevant. People do make the mistake of blaming a city on their problems and thinking that moving will solve everything. Many people don't realize that it has more to do with the opportunities they create for themselves and the decisions they make in general.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 04, 2007, 10:53:12 PM
I've known a couple of people so eager to get out of town and so convinced that place X is better that when they come to this realization they keep on frustratingly lauding place X and knocking the hometown even though they know they're wrong.  All that's symptomatic of someone's maturity, and so when you pick up on this brace for some more ridiculous observations and opinions.  Obviously if you're from a very small town or a dying industrial town that's one thing, but bitter Cincinnati natives are another.  The classic "it's so hard to meet people in Cincinnati" should be more like "it's hard to meet people EVERYWHERE".  I've moved probably 3 times to situations where I knew ZERO people, and you just have to deal with it.  If you're serious about making new friends, you need to be out there every day and every night trying to make it happen until you get there.

This couldn't be more true.  In Cincinnati I have a good amount of friends and things to do, and now I'm in Atlanta essentially with no one to fall back on.  Atlanta is typically seen as a better place to meet people, do things and have fun...but it's a load of crap.  You have to do a hell of a lot of work in order to get to that point.  It's not just a given that you're going to move to NYC, Atlanta, Miami, Seattle, Austin or wherever and just immediately start having tons of fun and meeting tons of people.  It just doesn't work like that (at least from my experiences).  It really is a lot of perception.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 04, 2007, 10:55:50 PM
A traffic jam is a great place to meet people.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on August 05, 2007, 07:34:23 PM
Randy, you can always fall back on me...You missed out last night by the way...

Regardless, I think your point is weak for the simple fact that you have lived in Cincinnati your entire life and have a great network of family and friends to fall back on. Anywhere else you go will not be able to compare to the security and comfort that goes along with lifelong friends and close family.

Anytime you move to a new city regardless of where it is, is going to be a challenge, and friends are not going to magically appear unless you proactively search for them. 

What ATL and other cities do have are transient people, all proactively looking to make new friends, where my experience in Cincinnati is that the lack of new transplants reduces the pool of people looking to find a group of people to hang out with. I'm not saying that its impossible, but more difficult to do.

JMeck..I'm moving to LA with 3 buddies to have many, many Entourage experiences....Hopefully my wife doesnt stop me.



Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on August 05, 2007, 09:06:09 PM
Carolyn says she misses her hot tub, for sure, the dogs and the 400-square-foot deck where she watched deer and raccoons. But Tom is the kind of guy who flashes his zest for constant activity, culture and nightlife in every smile.

Hmm.  I read this article and all I can think about is what happened to those dogs.  :oops:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 06, 2007, 07:51:12 AM
Randy, you can always fall back on me...You missed out last night by the way...

Regardless, I think your point is weak for the simple fact that you have lived in Cincinnati your entire life and have a great network of family and friends to fall back on. Anywhere else you go will not be able to compare to the security and comfort that goes along with lifelong friends and close family.

Anytime you move to a new city regardless of where it is, is going to be a challenge, and friends are not going to magically appear unless you proactively search for them. 

What ATL and other cities do have are transient people, all proactively looking to make new friends, where my experience in Cincinnati is that the lack of new transplants reduces the pool of people looking to find a group of people to hang out with. I'm not saying that its impossible, but more difficult to do.

We aren't in disagreement here.  My point was that while Cincinnati is not considered a great place to meet people and have a good time it's all just really relative to your situation.  I'm new to Atlanta (a creme de le creme of sorts for YP's and meeting people), and it's a struggle.  Like I was saying, just because you move to an Atlanta, Austin, NYC, or elsewhere that's considered attractive...it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be meeting people left and right.  It's all relative.

BTW, I'm meeting some great people down here (none of whom are originally from Atlanta)...but like I said, it takes a good deal of effort and persistence to get out there and meet those people.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on August 09, 2007, 09:36:43 AM
BTW, I'm meeting some great people down here (none of whom are originally from Atlanta)...but like I said, it takes a good deal of effort and persistence to get out there and meet those people.

Well, if you are looking for a place to watch the Bengals in Atlanta on Sundays, I used to watch the games with some friends at a bar called Gibney's downtown.  I'm sure they will be there when the season starts.  You're not a douchebag, are you?

The creative class is even lamer. I mean I guess I'm supposed to be part of the creative class, nearly a PhD in urban history. My wife is a composer, all cutting-edge electronic music. I can guarantee you that we cannot single-handedly save a city or make it particularly cool.

Awesome.  Merkowitz, if it's any consolation, whenever we've hung out, I always felt that you helped make me look particularly cool.

Jmeck, any recommendations on Emerson?  Books to purchase, and what not?  I'm looking for something highbrow to order along with the third season of The Office so the mail-handlers don't steal my DVD, and your quote has peaked my interest, both intellectually and as an extremely chauvinistic American.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 09, 2007, 10:18:54 AM
Well, if you are looking for a place to watch the Bengals in Atlanta on Sundays, I used to watch the games with some friends at a bar called Gibney's downtown.  I'm sure they will be there when the season starts.  You're not a douchebag, are you?

Well...I can officially say that is the first time I have ever been asked that question.  But no, I wouldn't consider myself a douchebag.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 09, 2007, 12:09:57 PM
Randy is the epitome of douchebaggery. Glad he's Atlanta's problem, not ours!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 09, 2007, 12:45:43 PM
Randy is the epitome of douchebaggery. Glad he's Atlanta's problem, not ours!

I could sue you for slander/defamation of character...how's that for "douchebaggery?"
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 09, 2007, 01:17:53 PM
Lol what? That was total sarcasm (thought that was obvious since we're friends). Go ahead and sue, I don't think you could get much out of me.  :lol:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 09, 2007, 01:24:51 PM
It was obvious...I was also kidding.  I thought my response was quite funny too.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: MrsAWeeks on August 09, 2007, 02:31:43 PM
I invoke a rule I have about the word "douchebag": If you have never seen or used one, you aren't allowed to call someone that!!!  Now teabag is ok......carry on insulting each other!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 09, 2007, 02:37:55 PM
^So ColDayMan is allowed to call people that and not us?!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 09, 2007, 02:39:38 PM
Well...I can tell you that David is free to use the word at his disposal then!

EDIT: Dangit, David beat me to the punch on that one
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 09, 2007, 04:11:33 PM
>Jmeck, any recommendations on Emerson?  Books to purchase, and what not?  I'm looking for something highbrow to order along with the third season of The Office so the mail-handlers don't steal my DVD, and your quote has peaked my interest, both intellectually and as an extremely chauvinistic American.

Try White Noise (1985) by Don DeLillo: 

http://www.amazon.com/White-Noise-Penguin-Great-Century/dp/0140283307/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8071181-8980141?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186690934&sr=8-1

And another oldie-but-goodie, Air Guitar (1997) by UNLV art history professor Dave Hickey:

http://www.amazon.com/Air-Guitar-Dave-Hickey/dp/0963726455/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8071181-8980141?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186691263&sr=1-1

I wouldn't advise reading the above book without a thorough (working) knowledge of the music of the Rolling Stones. 

Also on the subject of travel, "The Wild Years", a collection of Hemingway's articles published when he was a European correspondent for the Toronto Star (before he wrote his first novel, A Farewell to Arms), is pretty interesting.  For a 23-24 year-old, he was an incredible writer; too bad the older he got, the phonier he got.  One article I remember makes fun of the much-celebrated Paris cafe scene, it's exactly like how the the whole hipster thing is now.  In another he simply describes his first airplane ride, in another he describes trout fishing in remote parts of Quebec.         
 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on August 09, 2007, 11:25:57 PM
Well clearly then as soon as Williamsburg, VA stops conspiring against us and lets up live there then the coolness quotient will go through the roof. YPs and the creative class are now officially relocated to Wburg, VA. Boo-yah!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: BallHatGuy on August 15, 2007, 03:40:52 PM
So listening to NPR this morning there was a local report that Mayor Mallory indicated the City was negotiating with a retail business that was initially contacted on his trip to Las Vegas to bring a store downtown.  According to the report, he would not name the store.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on August 16, 2007, 10:19:13 PM
Poll:

What do most people prefer?

A city that "grew up" in the sunbelt, post WWII, when the automobile was king and when market forces drove suburban development, in such places as Charlotte, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta; where people continue to move to in huge numbers regardless of the so called lack of urban living that everyone seems to want and desire so that they can live like people in Europe? (according to everyone on these blogs)

Or...

A city like Cincinnati that had the fortune of developing in the pre automobile years, yet can't get their shit together and continues to have a metropolitan area that barely has any in migration and rants and raves about a wopping 1,000 person increase over five years yet can't get enough support to redevelop a downtown (yes I agree it's gotten better) that theoritically could be the envy of most other average midwest cities; and of course we  can't forget about our cherished Over the Rhine, that great neighborhood that has had "potential" for 20 years, yet lacks the market forces that will ever support its revitalization and true comeback?

Just a question...devil's advocate time..
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 16, 2007, 11:47:05 PM
Most people that I have met in Atlanta (that have moved there as part of the huge numbers) complain about the things that they miss from their former home up north.  Top complaints...poor cultural support for the arts and what not, unwalkable communities, driving times/congestion and finally no real downtown.

Bottom line is that people will go where the jobs are, and at this stage in history the jobs are down south.  Like I have said before, what else have these cities done to attract this growth (other than cheap land/labor)...my answer is nothing.  You have admitedly said that Atlanta was a dump pre-Olympics, and to be quite honest there is still work being done to fix those issues.  There you go...I said it, Atlanta has had potential now for 10+ years following the Olympics.  They still haven't created a safe, vibrant downtown in my opinion.  Sure there is a lot of infill going on...but as far as Atlanta (and any other southern city for that matter) is concerned, another 20-30 years of infill will be needed to make these places great as they so claim to be.

I have met tons of people who echo the same statements...as soon as they get to a point in their career where they have a choice, they are getting the hell out of Dodge (so to speak) and returning home to the Northeast/Midwest.

People do desire to live in cities with European style attributes (plenty of surveys that support this very idea), but those desires play second fiddle when it comes to putting food on the table.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on August 17, 2007, 12:03:37 AM
Cincinnati or Atlanta??? ...

... Cincinnati any day. Of course I'm not being hypocritical either, because I do live in Cincy.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 17, 2007, 12:22:50 AM
If you're from the suburbs, Atlanta isn't really all that different except the traffic congestion (as if Fields-Ertel and such are a walk in the park). Oh yeah, and the beastly super-ugly women that work the late shift at Waffle House.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: MrsAWeeks on August 17, 2007, 07:26:10 AM
Oh yeah, and the beastly super-ugly women that work the late shift at Waffle House.

Are you talking about the one on Peachtree? :)  I have a friend who grew up in Atlanta, went to a large university in a small college town and then moved BACK to Atlanta for a job.  Granted some people find it appealing.  I like to call it "The Dirty South"  Growing up in SC, I went to Atlanta a lot and I find Cincinnati so much more appealing. It has charm and history and lots to offer.  I don't get the same warm and fuzzy from Atlanta. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 17, 2007, 07:56:44 AM
Convergys puts top HQ floors on office market

Businesses in the market for class A office space have another downtown option as Convergys Corp. has offered up the top two floors of its Atrium One building.  Convergys said the available space, the 19th and 20th floors, is not a result of job cuts or failure to meet job creation requirements outlined by the state when it approved tax credits to keep the company in town back in 2005.

"We've made the space more efficient," said Lauri Roderick, Convergys spokeswoman. Since the company bought the Fourth Street building and moved its headquarters there in early 2006, it has renovated the building to better suit its needs. Roderick said the firm still has room to grow despite offering its top two floors.  "It's about the layout of the building, not the amount of jobs," she said.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/08/20/story7.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/08/20/story7.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on August 17, 2007, 11:37:06 AM
There are some Southern cities that do have an urban core. Richmond, VA actually has a great urban area near downtown that could be a model for a renewed West End. It is mostly two and three story rowhouses.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: igon on August 17, 2007, 12:13:04 PM
Sorry...I was on my 4th drink when I wrote that post. Didnt mean to be antagonstic. I love Cincinnati...I would just have to say that it's a very frustrating place to live..

Cheers

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 17, 2007, 12:19:28 PM
My only complaint about Cincinnati is the pervading pessimism. But it is a beautiful city with a lot of character. We have an amazing downtown. It's dense and gets a lot of foot traffic compared to other cities its size.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 17, 2007, 01:13:37 PM
Richmond might technically be a southern city but it's not a "sunbelt" city...I've certainly never heard of anyone extolling Northern Virginia's weather which I would assume is roughly the same was Washington's which is roughly the same as Cincinnati's. 

I've been to all the southern cities and Birmingham is the only one with a downtown that resembles Cincinnati's, although it lacks a river and focus point.  Chattanooga has huge potential, Knoxville is still a dump but has solid potential with very interesting rock formations and lush foliage in all directions.  Huntsville would have an amazing setting if it were actually on the Tennessee River instead of 5 miles from it (spectacular 600ft. wooded hills overlook the river's amazingly clear water), Macon, Montgomery, Mobile, and Jacksonville are all dumps beyond hope.  Of the eastern river cities, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Chattanooga have the best settings with smaller cities like Wheeling and Knoxville having a lot of unrealized potential.  The settings of Nashville and Memphis are mediocre, as are St. Louis and Louisville.  Charlotte, Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas are in the middle of nowhere.   

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on August 18, 2007, 07:25:10 PM
Having just moved to Virginia, it definitely has a mixed vibe. A little Sunbelt (Hampton Roads), a little Old South (most of the central part of the state), more and more East Coast (NOVA and somewhat Richmond), and some Appalachian.

Where we are at in Williamsburg definitely vibes more with the Sunbelt. Decent location but it is hurt by the military dominance in term of so many people without a long term commitment to the place and so many retirees.

Chattanooga was definitely one of my fav Southern cities. Their aquarium puts Newport to shame, but in general the history there is great too. Unfortunately it ended up so close to Hotlanta.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 18, 2007, 07:28:44 PM
Richmond might technically be a southern city but it's not a "sunbelt" city...I've certainly never heard of anyone extolling Northern Virginia's weather which I would assume is roughly the same was Washington's which is roughly the same as Cincinnati's. 

I've been to all the southern cities and Birmingham is the only one with a downtown that resembles Cincinnati's, although it lacks a river and focus point.  Chattanooga has huge potential, Knoxville is still a dump but has solid potential with very interesting rock formations and lush foliage in all directions.  Huntsville would have an amazing setting if it were actually on the Tennessee River instead of 5 miles from it (spectacular 600ft. wooded hills overlook the river's amazingly clear water), Macon, Montgomery, Mobile, and Jacksonville are all dumps beyond hope.  Of the eastern river cities, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Chattanooga have the best settings with smaller cities like Wheeling and Knoxville having a lot of unrealized potential.  The settings of Nashville and Memphis are mediocre, as are St. Louis and Louisville.  Charlotte, Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas are in the middle of nowhere.   


As much as I hate the south I think its safe to consider Louisville (and to some degree StL even though they don't know if they're southern or midwestern) comparable to Cincinnati. Savannah has a good urban core as well. I was actually impressed with Louisville's core, despite it being in Kentucky lol.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Maximillian on August 21, 2007, 07:18:15 PM
Got this from the DRC.

DOWNTOWN CRIME STATS FOR JUNE 2007 RELEASED
Did you know that JANUARY to JUNE 2007 STATS for DOWNTOWN show a 11.4 percent
DECREASE in Part 1 (serious) crimes and a 35.4 percent DECREASE in June alone!
Plus a 16.1 percent DECREASE in Part 2 crimes?
District 1 is now in LAST PLACE when compared to the other districts! (Like
golf, that is good!)  The CBD is now experiencing the lowest rate of crime in
the past seven years!
RECALL THESE STATS FOR YEAR-END 2006:
+ For Downtown, Total Part 1 Crimes were DOWN 22.7 percent
+ For all of District 1, Part 1 Crimes were DOWN 17.4 percent.
+ For Downtown, Total Part 2 (lesser tier) Crimes were DOWN 12.9 percent
+ For all of District 1, Part 2 Crimes were DOWN 8.5 percent.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 21, 2007, 07:25:11 PM
That is great news...too bad the media still reports EVERY single crime or even something that resembles criminal activity downtown.  While at the same time ignoring what is going on elsewhere across the region.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on August 22, 2007, 08:56:39 AM
I think D3 is now holding the title for most crime!    Not positive about that though!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on August 22, 2007, 09:12:33 AM
actually I would assume that D1 didn't previously hold that title, the total population of d1 is pretty small.  actually d3 is in first overall but isn't in first for robbery, murder and assault.  D3 is so high due to the burglaries.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 22, 2007, 10:14:57 AM
When comparing crime numbers you really have to separately compare QOL crimes and violent crimes.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on August 22, 2007, 11:08:20 AM
D3 is huge, I mean they cover a lot of ground!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on August 22, 2007, 11:35:42 AM
ok, i dont know which is D3 and am too lazy to look it up.  Could someone just tell me.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 22, 2007, 11:52:11 AM
Here ya go...as you can see it is made up of Lower/East/West Price Hill, Westwood, Sayler Park, Riverside, Sedamsville, North Fairmont and so on.  It's a pretty large and difficult area to cover.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 22, 2007, 02:46:23 PM
That's obnoxious!
Most of that stretch between lower price hill and saylor park is just river road.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 22, 2007, 03:42:04 PM
But there is a lot of truck traffic on 50, as well as, rail lines and a good amount of industry along that corridor.  An area that you need to keep an eye on for suspicious activity.

Also please note that criminals obviously jump across Delhi to get back to Cincinnat to commit their crimes.  Obviously Delhi has no connections to the City of Cincinnati.

[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: David on August 22, 2007, 03:54:01 PM
Most of Delhi is nothing more than Price Hill 2.0. It's not the land of gumdrops, rainbows and wonderbread residents would like to believe.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on August 22, 2007, 03:55:47 PM
I used to work up at the Western Hills Plaza and when you needed police assistance, be prepared to wait At LEAST 15 MIN.      We had a guy on the pavement one day a couple years back.  I had to hold my knee to the back of his neck for that long.    Most of the time Green twp., Cheviot, or the county police beat them to most of the western area of the district.

I have complained about this for YEARS!!!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on August 22, 2007, 03:57:05 PM
Here ya go...as you can see it is made up of Lower/East/West Price Hill, Westwood, Sayler Park, Riverside, Sedamsville, North Fairmont and so on.  It's a pretty large and difficult area to cover.

the three most populated neighborhoods in the city are westwood; east price hill and west price hill.  those three have 68k of 332k alone.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on August 25, 2007, 12:49:25 PM
2nd quarter DCI report is out, generally good news.

http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/AboutDCI.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 26, 2007, 01:05:48 PM
2Q State of Downtown Report (http://urbancincy.blogspot.com/2007/08/2q-state-of-downtown-report.html)
BY RANDY SIMES (rsimes@gmail.com) | URBANCINCY
August 23, 2007


I don't know how many of you get the quarterly emails from Downtown Cincinnati Inc. (DCI), but I do...and I am obsessed with the quarterly reports (http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/AboutDCI.html) that they put out on the state of Downtown Cincinnati. No fluff...no shenanigans, just facts. If you would like to receive the quarterly emails as well just let them know (concierge@gototown.com). From here though I am going to highlight some of what I think are the most important numbers/pieces of information from the 2Q report:

--The CBD/immediate periphery saw 44 condo sales and 9 single family home sales in the 2Q, selling for a median price of $279,032 and $228,000 respectively.

--10 new retail establishments opened (including bars/clubs) while 8 retail establishments closed...but in all honesty, a good chuck of the businesses that closed had other issues not related to downtown.

--Downtown hotels continue to boast the best occupancy rates in the region (62.6%) and also saw the largest increase in occupied rooms over 2006 (+3.4%). Downtown hotels also boast the highest cost per room ($126.12) and accordingly the highest revenue per room($79.00) in the region.

--Part 1 crimes (more serious crimes) are down 11.4% and Part 2 crimes (quality of life crimes) are down 16.1% over the numbers from the same time period for 2006.

--DCI Ambassadors assisted 13,858 pedestrians, removed 23,740 lbs of trash, addressed 3,019 instances of panhandling, removed 513 graffiti tags and distributed 3,800 Go To Town Guides (http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/guide/).

As for development...there is either proposed or under construction:
4,877,160 sq. ft. of space
2,641 residential units
13,800 parking spaces
For a grand total of $1,450,300,000 in total investments.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on August 26, 2007, 01:13:59 PM
the 4.8 million sq ft of space would be an increase of nearly 40%
the 2641 residential units would be an increase of over 50%
the parking would be an increase of 37%
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on August 26, 2007, 09:47:30 PM
promising numbers
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on November 15, 2007, 11:26:56 AM
Downtown Cincinnati Lures Holiday Shoppers

DOWNTOWN - New restaurants, shops and hundreds of holiday events are expected to draw a half million people to downtown Cincinnati over the next two months. A visitor center is also going to be set up on Fountain Square to help visitors find their way to all of the holiday happenings.

Local 12's Sasha Rionda has a sneak peak at some of the events.  While this doesn't look like much right now, by November 23 it will be covered with ice and skaters.  Michel Weisenberg, Works Downtown: "This has been a very big success, the skating rink and the tree lighting, brings lot of people downtown, which is really great for our city."

Read full article here:
http://www.local12.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=4c8f005d-4891-4b49-ba27-53684d40bed3 (http://www.local12.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=4c8f005d-4891-4b49-ba27-53684d40bed3)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on November 15, 2007, 11:32:16 AM
Just as a note...DCI has significantly updated their website.  It is much more user-friendly and visually appealing...I also believe there is more information now on the site.  Check it out:
www.gototown.com

They also have this great new feature that is Downtown Itineraries (http://www.gototown.com/content.jsp?articleId=183)...very cool!  If you say there is nothing to do Downtown, then you're a fool.

Oh...and one other thing.  Those who live Downtown are encouraged to give their testimonials (http://www.gototown.com/testimonials) about their living experience.  You can find the email in the link I provided or you can simply use this one (emilie@downtowncincinnati.com) if you want to bypass a couple of clicks:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on November 19, 2007, 08:19:56 PM
second quarter report just came out

http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/QuarterlyReportJune.pdf
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on November 19, 2007, 08:24:01 PM
part one crime down 11% part two down 16%

44 condo closings.  9 single family

CBD vacancy rate .3% lower than Cincinnati USA average.

CBD office space saw a small net absorbtion

 
 
 Hotel Highlights Year-to-Date (through June 2007)
Market
Average
Occupancy
% Change from YTD 2006 Average Rate/Night RevPAR
(a)
Downtown 62.6% +3.4% $126.12 $79.00
The second quarter of 2007 saw 10 new retail businesses open in the CBD, including:
Tom’s Chicken Pot Pies, Bang Nightclub, Wilma’s Orchard, Poppa Joe’s, Boi Na Braza,
Lodge Bar, Ralph’s Furniture, Mattresses & Appliances, All Rise Café, Cadillac Ranch
and Mythos.
 
Eight establishments closed during this time period: Queen City Plants & Flowers, Inc., Coffeehouse Café, Kun Ying (where was this?), Jalapenos, Atlanta Bread Co., Chambers, Dodd Jewelers
and The Phoenix Café.

I will take the new buisness over the old
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on November 19, 2007, 08:26:33 PM
^ I think Kun Ying was the Thai place that is now Buddakahn's on Vine near 7th.

Where is Wilma's Orchard, All Rise Cafe, and Ralph's Furniture?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on November 19, 2007, 08:29:31 PM
all rise is near the court house, I think ralph's is on court street, I have no idea about the orchard
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: MrsAWeeks on November 19, 2007, 09:54:38 PM
Yep All Rise is at the corner of Sycamore and Court. It is just open for breakfast and lunch.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: byrnepj on November 19, 2007, 10:44:54 PM
Aren't they about a quarter behind on these releases??
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on November 19, 2007, 11:56:58 PM
I would assume it takes time to compile/report the data. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on November 20, 2007, 11:36:11 AM
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's the same report published in August of this year.  The names and dates on the files have changed due to the reorganization of the DCI web site.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on December 19, 2007, 03:10:02 PM
The 2007 3Q State of Downtown Report has been released, here is the executive summary:

Office
The third quarter Central Business District (CBD) office vacancy rate decreased nearly three percent, down to 16.7 percent from 19.4 percent in second quarter.  The decrease was due to the sale of 299 E. Sixth St., which took 126,685 sf of sublease space off the market, in addition to multiple large square footage transactions at 303 Broadway, the Chiquita Center, the Kroger building and 600 Vine.

Retail
During third quarter 2007, six new establishments opened downtown. These new establishments include: Mythos, Below Zero, Sanders Guild Gallery, Family Deli II, Subway and Sung Korean Bistro. Batsakes Hat Shop celebrated 100 years in downtown Cincinnati and was honored by Mayor Mallory with a key to the city.

Residential
Third quarter 2007 recorded 24 condominium closings with an average sale price of $281,556, according to the Cincinnati Multiple Listing Service (MLS) of the
Cincinnati Area Board of Realtors.

Conventions & Hotels
Downtown hotels saw a small decrease in average occupancy, marking a -1.1% decrease from year-to-date (YTD) 2006.

Access & Parking
DCI surveys all downtown parking garage and lot operators on a quarterly basis. As of the end of third quarter 2007, there were 35,091 parking spaces in the CBD, with 5,299 monthly spaces available. The average price for an available monthly space in the CBD remained steady at $69 per month.

Arts, Culture & Entertainment
The Cincinnati Opera broke all attendance records during their 2007 Summer Festival season. The Cincinnati Winter Sports Festival will be held at the Duke
Energy Center December 14-16. “Bodies…The Exhibition” will open at the Cincinnati Museum Center in January.

Safe & Clean
The Cincinnati Police Department reported the following YTD statistics (January 1-October 31, 2007) compared to the same time period in 2006: Part 1 crimes in the CBD/Riverfront are down 8.7 percent and Part 2 crimes are down 11.5 percent.  Part 1 crimes are described as more serious crimes, but include crimes such as shoplifting and purse-snatching; part 2 crimes are “quality of life” crimes such as aggressive panhandling and vandalism.


To view the full report to to www.gototown.com and go to the publications section.  Here is the specific link for the PDF document for the 3Q report:
2007: 3Q State of Downtown Report]http://gototown.com/files/uploaded/Quarterly_Report_September_2007.pdf]2007: 3Q State of Downtown Report (http://gototown.com/files/uploaded/Quarterly_Report_September_2007.pdf)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmbfanatpsu on December 19, 2007, 04:03:53 PM
Nice to see the above!  Lets hope we keep going in the same direction.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on December 19, 2007, 08:07:40 PM
" Five establishments closed during this time period: Lange Jewelers, Balance, Mejana, Icon and Passage."

I knew mejana moved to the food court at tri county mall, but where were balance, icon and passage?

Also the streetcar was listed on one of these reports for the first time

"CBD dev
Cincinnati Streetcar (City of Cincinnati)
ty is considering building a 4.2 mile streetcar route, initially linking The Banks
with Over-the-Rhine up to Findlay Market.  Future lines will connect riverfront with
Uptown area and other points east/west.
DCI  CBD/OTR $110.0     2007-2Q proposed 2010-4Q "


Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on December 19, 2007, 08:10:56 PM
The Passage Cafe was a Monday through Friday lunch only place on Court St near Avril's.  I think Icon was near Universal Grille and Carteaux and Leslie on Vine.  Balance was a stress-reduction place on Main Street between 6th and 7th.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmbfanatpsu on January 03, 2008, 07:45:09 AM
It will be interesting to watch and monitor the state of downtown as the holiday's are now over.  On a side note, I heard that the ice rink at FS may stay open longer into the new year due to better then expected sales.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on January 03, 2008, 08:03:55 AM
On a side note, I heard that the ice rink at FS may stay open longer into the new year due to better then expected sales.

I think the ice skating rink was open until the beginning of March last year.  They had the broomball leagues in January and February, which seemed very successful.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmbfanatpsu on January 04, 2008, 07:29:50 AM
^oh cool....I didn't know that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on March 04, 2008, 08:51:14 AM
The 2007 4Q report is out...here are some of the highlights:

Office Market
The downtown office market saw increased activity during the fourth quarter. Class A vacancy rates remained consistent while Class B and Class C vacancy rates were lower in the CBD compared to other markets in Cincinnati USA.

Safe & Clean
During fourth quarter, Part 1 crime (more serious offenses) in the Central Business District was down double digits, while Part 2 crime (quality of life crimes such as shoplifting and aggressive panhandling) also decreased.

Residential Market
The downtown residential market continues to grow at a steady pace with fourth quarter home sales ranging in average sale price from mid $140’s to the low $280’s. New/redeveloped residential options coming on-line include for sale properties with city and river views.

Convention & Hotels
Duke Energy Center hosted several large conventions during fourth quarter with an economic impact of over $2 million. Although downtown hotel occupancy rates were down slightly compared to fourth quarter 2006, the revenue per available room was higher than the national average.

Access & Parking
The number of available monthly parking spaces increased, while the average price for a monthly parking contract decreased during the fourth quarter. Hamilton County Commissioners voted to increase parking in some Hamilton County lots and the Cincinnati City Council voted to increase Metro fares.

Retail Market
The Downtown Gift Card was launched in fourth quarter, which could be used at over 100 participated merchants. Many of the new establishments that came online during this quarter, included restaurants, entertainment, and new and expanded retailers.

Arts, Culture & Entertainment
Fourth quarter saw thousands of visitors take part in holiday activities including ice skating on Fountain Square, the Duke Energy trains, Macy’s Downtown Dazzle, the Nutcracker, and other events.

You can access the full report (pdf) here:
http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/Quarterly_Report__December_2007.pdf

If you would like to be added to the email list send a message to this email:
SODreport@downtowncincinnati.com
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on March 04, 2008, 11:37:48 AM
Very uplifting news for such a sh!tty day outside
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: 70/65Cityguy on March 05, 2008, 08:35:49 PM
"The downtown residential market continues to grow at a steady pace with fourth quarter home sales ranging in average sale price from mid $140's to the low $280's."   ???   So what was the average sales price?   How about one number?   That would be helpful for providing some useful information.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on March 05, 2008, 09:56:50 PM
I think one is for condos and the other for single family houses
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on March 10, 2008, 08:10:22 AM
Can more parking be bad?
Foot-friendly areas spur growth, experts say

Just as downtown is enjoying a wave of new places to live and eat, some experts fear the future of that activity could be threatened by too much parking.  Too many parking spots might jeopardize efforts to create a "walkable" downtown with a steady stream of pedestrians who patronize shops and create a sense of activity in the city center, the experts say.

That activity and the sense of safety it brings are linchpins in any effort to bring a retail resurgence downtown.  The issue of walkability has come up several times recently, including during a meeting last month of the Cincinnati Urban Design Review Board.

After showing off plans for what is supposed to be the city's tallest office tower, the 40-story Queen City Tower, architect Gyo Obata was asked several times by the panel whether he could make the propsed building more pedestrian-friendly.  "I think we do want to see a level of activity on the street," city architect Michael R. Moore said after the meeting.

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080310/BIZ01/803100321/1076/BIZ (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080310/BIZ01/803100321/1076/BIZ)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on March 10, 2008, 08:31:37 AM

Dan and Gretchen Mahan, both professionals in their early 30s, bought their 960-square-foot, one-bedroom condo in the Park Place at Lytle building on Fifth Street in 2004.

Now they're looking for a bigger place downtown, a neighborhood they say they don't want to leave, even as they lament sparse retail within strolling distance of home.

"If we need milk, I can't walk to it. I have to get in the car and drive to it," Gretchen Mahan said. "Barnes & Noble across the river is open until 10, but downtown, you can't get anything accomplished."

???   I can think of ten places downtown where you can walk and buy milk.  Honestly, I can find almost everything somewhere downtown.  I suspect that some people just don't know the area enough or explore. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: BallHatGuy on March 10, 2008, 08:38:34 AM
^ I thought the same thing Melanie.  Have they not heard of CVS or Walgreens? 

And it bugs me to no end - I can walk to more places downtown to buy groceries than I could when I lived in a crap subdivision in Monroe, Ohio.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on March 14, 2008, 07:39:33 AM
Gradison to move to Kenwood

Gradison, one of Cincinnati's most venerable investment firms, is leaving downtown after 80 years.  UBS Financial Services Inc., the Swiss firm that acquired Gradison last year, is moving the company's operations to the new mixed-use Kenwood Towne Place development in spring 2009, said Troy DeBord, UBS' local market manager. Gradison is the Sycamore Township project's first confirmed office tenant. UBS also will move most of the employees at Gradison's smaller office at the Towers of Kenwood to the new location. And the company said it would remove the Gradison name in 2009. Gradison employs about 60 downtown in the 580 Building on Sixth Street.

The new 32,000-square-foot office will be on the top floor of the eight-story Kenwood Towne Place building. It initially will house about 90 employees but could hold 100.  Gradison's move continues an exodus from the 580 Building that began in December when American Financial Group Inc. announced it would anchor Western & Southern Financial Group's to-be-built Queen City Square office tower. AFG's Great American Life Insurance Co., which currently occupies space in six downtown sites including the 580 Building, will consolidate its employees into Queen City Square when that building is completed in 2011.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/03/17/story2.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/03/17/story2.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on March 14, 2008, 09:33:27 AM
These are the bits of news that makes me yearn for city-county consolidation. Kenwood would attract these folks anyway, but it wouldn't cost the city earnings taxes. Indian Hill is just so close to Kenwood.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on March 14, 2008, 01:54:00 PM
^Perhaps moving closer to clients or partner's suburban homes will help their business, or maybe their new lease just couldn't be beat.  I suspect that the move will actually slightly hurt their business, or have no effect.  Downtown is on the rise.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on March 20, 2008, 09:37:28 AM
Study: Port Authority helps economy

The Port of Cincinnati Development Authority released a report today that pegged its impact on the region’s economy at $1.4 billion, 6 percent higher than at the time of its last report in 2005.  Port-financed projects are responsible for about 2,033 jobs per year and $74.5 million in annual household income to the region, according to the report, which was prepared by a team of University of Cincinnati economists.

“We are all very proud of what we have been able to accomplish since 2001,” said Kim Satzger president of the Port Authority. “We collaborate with the city, county, developers and financial institutions to grow our local economy.  “Through our collaborative and inclusive efforts, we will return $29.7 million directly to local government in new taxes collected, a return of nearly 7 to 1.”

According to the report by the UC Economics Center for Education and Research, that return is a 60 percent increase over 2005 tax revenue of $18.6 million.  The 6 percent increase is based on so-called multipliers that assume many of the dollars spent on port-related developments stay in the area and change hands repeatedly.

Read full article here:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080320/BIZ01/303200026/ (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080320/BIZ01/303200026/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on May 08, 2008, 09:06:44 PM
What recession? :wink:

DCI reports on downtown Cincinnati progress

Downtown Cincinnati Inc. had good news for attendees at its annual meeting Thursday - more tenants, more restaurants and more activity in the central business district.  Kathryn Merchant, president and CEO of the Greater Cincinnati Foundation, was the keynote speaker for the event.

Some of the highlights from DCI's "State of Downtown" report:

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/05/05/daily37.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/05/05/daily37.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 08, 2008, 09:12:13 PM
full document here
http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/AnnualReport_2007.pdf
 and
here
http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/StateofDowntown_2007.pdf

the second one is probably what people on this forum are looking for

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 08, 2008, 09:16:23 PM
highlights

Additionally, this report takes a look at the safety and cleanliness
of downtown as well as downtown development projects. Specific
information on each market is included in the respective sections of
this report (and more detailed information is available by contacting
DCI). Below are section highlights as of December 31, 2007:
• Development Projects. In 2007 completed construction and
renovation projects totaled well over $110 million, along with
an approximate $243 million in continued progress on longerterm
projects.
• Office & Employment. Class A and Class B vacancy rates decreased
in 2007 as compared to 2006. Class C spaces, which have been
historically underused, continued to be converted into mixed use
sites. There was more than 700,000 square feet* of office transactions
during 2007 which included many expansions.
• Retail & Restaurants. The percent of available retail space in
downtown was at a five year low in 2007, with 26 retail/restaurant/
entertainment establishments opening in the CBD. Also in 2007 the
first professionally conducted pedestrian count study† was completed
in order to better assist downtown retail recruitment efforts.
• Residential. During 2007 more than 100 new and renovated/
converted units came on line in the CBD. Downtown population
growth has been consistent with projections, with a current
population of over 8,000 in Greater Downtown‡. Accordingly,
occupancy rates in the apartment market were above 94%.
• Convention & Hotel Market. The Cincinnati USA Convention
& Visitors Bureau (CVB) reported an 8% increase in the economic
impact of total room rates booked by the CVB. Although the percent
of average occupancy for downtown hotels was down, the average
room rate per night and the revenue per available room night were
up from 2006 and well above the national average.
• Arts, Culture & Entertainment. Thousands of people visited
downtown to experience the variety of arts, culture and
entertainment events and venues. The overall attendance
increased in 2007; several new performance venues had
record-breaking attendance.
• Safe & Clean. The 2007 Perception Survey indicated that 70% of
participants felt safe downtown, while 80% of participants rated
downtown as clean overall. Crime in the CBD continues to go down
with double digit decreases in more serious crimes for the
second year in a row.
• Parking & Access. In the 2007 National Monthly and Daily Parking
Rate Survey§, downtown Cincinnati remained competitively priced as
compared to larger cities and those of similar size and capacity. The
average price for available monthly parking spaces remained
under $70 per month
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LesterLyles on May 08, 2008, 09:57:05 PM
This is great news.  I moved to Cincy 4 months ago and can really feel the energy in downtown. I also feel safe essentially everywhere I go in CBD.  I listened to Bill C today talking to a reporter who had done a piece on downtown safety.  I do't think they were referring to the same city I have been working in...I really don't  The perceptions some people have is just mind boggling.  I certainly realize the riots were an ugly chapter in this city's history but I am surprised just off-target perceptions still exist. Bill C. talked about how bad downtown was for a few minutes and at the end he amitted he hasn't been downtown in months.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 08, 2008, 10:06:48 PM
I may be reading the chart wrong, but it appears that the CBD has a lower vacancy rate than anywhere else in the metro
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on May 08, 2008, 10:27:10 PM
^^ I have said many times I am not regular listener of Cunningham, but it seems if you randomly check on his show he spends a lot of time bashing downtown.  It makes you really wonder what his ultimate goal is - I mean he is obviously a ratings whore, and when he isn't off on some overzealous right-wing rant the city bears the brunt of his idiocy.  You would think at some point,  even as a resident of Indian Hill, he would have some pride in or desire for the city to be successful.  Yet he never says anything positive about Downtown, or most of the city for that matter.  He has been a scourge on the collective psyche of many in the region as they continue to buy into his words as though they were gospel.  And while a lot of people read through his tired schtick, it angers me because people who believe everything he says do have an impact on the city.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LesterLyles on May 08, 2008, 10:32:13 PM
^^ I have said many times I am not regular listener of Cunningham, but it seems if you randomly check on his show he spends a lot of time bashing downtown.  It makes you really wonder what his ultimate goal is - I mean he is obviously a ratings whore, and when he isn't off on some overzealous right-wing rant the city bears the brunt of his idiocy.  You would think at some point,  even as a resident of Indian Hill, he would have some pride in or desire for the city to be successful.  Yet he never says anything positive about Downtown, or most of the city for that matter.  He has been a scourge on the collective psyche of many in the region as they continue to buy into his words as though they were gospel.  And while a lot of people read through his tired schtick, it angers me because people who believe everything he says do have an impact on the city.

I was wondring the same thing. Isn' t it in all our best interests to have a stronger downtown and urban core?  won't a stronger city attract companies and families to move here?  Won't it casue more people to visit, which will help local businesses? I don't get it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 10, 2008, 11:02:12 AM
And the thing is that his rants are not constructive in one sense of the word.  Sure there are things that Cincy (or any city for that matter) could improve upon.  But how are you helping those issues by just simply spewing nonsense over the airwaves on the region's most listened to station.

Someone mentioned that this has had a negative affect on the City's psyche, and it has...it's had a MAJOR impact.  I directly trace the negative mindsets of people in this region to 700 WLW.

It's just pure nonsense for the most part as well.  It would be wonderful if 700 WLW used their influence for something productive rather than perpetuating false ideologies, stereotypes, etc.  This is Cincy's biggest issue when it comes to their image problem.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LesterLyles on May 10, 2008, 11:20:44 AM
And the thing is that his rants are not constructive in one sense of the word.  Sure there are things that Cincy (or any city for that matter) could improve upon.  But how are you helping those issues by just simply spewing nonsense over the airwaves on the region's most listened to station.

Someone mentioned that this has had a negative affect on the City's psyche, and it has...it's had a MAJOR impact.  I directly trace the negative mindsets of people in this region to 700 WLW.

It's just pure nonsense for the most part as well.  It would be wonderful if 700 WLW used their influence for something productive rather than perpetuating false ideologies, stereotypes, etc.  This is Cincy's biggest issue when it comes to their image problem.
Agree Rando; I think guys like Cunningham have an absolute negative impact on the city's psyche. I mean everyone on this board obviously has a unique interest in urban issues and progress, especially Cincinnati's, but for the average resident, they get a great deal of their information from guys like Cunningham.  Therefore his outrageous opinions are very counter-productive to what the city is trying accomplish.  Cincy is about to start an advertising campaign promoting downtown.  I guarantee you Cunningham will mock it.  Why he will do this, I have no idea. I just don't understand how a guy as smart as Cunningham doesn't see the necessity to strengthening our urban core.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 10, 2008, 11:27:42 AM
you have 85k people who work downtown, 8k who live there and on average 21k attending an event every day [7.6 million visitors per year], which puts the average number of people downtown (including weekends) at 89k.  this doesn't include people who just go downtown to a bar or restaurant and it doesn't include attendence at the taft, and it doesn't include people in hotels and it doesn't include people at conventions.  [unless those people did something like go to a show or a game or a museum]
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: arenn on May 10, 2008, 02:56:46 PM
I was in Cincinnati a couple of weeks ago for the first time in about a year.  I am always amazed by downtown Cincy.  Even when one would have said it was in bad shape, I always loved the narrow streets and more or less intact streetscapes.  The riverfront engagement to downtown is a thousand times better than when I used to go to Riverfront Stadium as a kid.  The problems in Cincy aren't downtown - but get even a short distance away and the blight is obvious.

I spent some time listening to that Cunningham fellow.  Wow, he is over the top to say the least.  In fact, he featured prominently in a blog post I wrote up about the trip and city, if any of you are interested in reading it.

http://theurbanophile.blogspot.com/2008/05/cincinnati-midwest-conundrum.html

Obviously I'm not a particular cheerleader of Cincinnati as many of you know, but hopefully you'll give me credit for all the positive things I say at least, since there's a lot of it.  Every time I visit Cincy and tour around its neighborhoods I am absolutely blown away.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on May 10, 2008, 03:01:42 PM
>you have 85k people who work downtown, 8k who live there and on average 21k attending an event every day [7.6 million visitors per year], which puts the average number of people downtown (including weekends) at 89k.  this doesn't include people who just go downtown to a bar or restaurant and it doesn't include attendence at the taft, and it doesn't include people in hotels and it doesn't include people at conventions.  [unless those people did something like go to a show or a game or a museum]


Brad I remember the state of upwards of 150,000 per workday for workers, redidents, and visitors.  Now obviously some people are only downtown for an hour and residents are there most of the time so that number isn't meaningful until it's broken down.  However for the streetcar to get 2,000 daily riders that means 1 in 75 people has to ride it per day which I think is realistic.   

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on May 19, 2008, 06:39:43 PM
You better sit down for this one!!!

On Your Side: What's Good In Cincinnati?

What's right with Cincinnati?  It's a pretty general question. You can probably come up with a list of what you think is wrong, but what is right with our hometown?  We aren't naive. We know that nothing's perfect here (or anywhere,) but between the crime reports and the traffic accidents, there is good news about greater Cincinnati, and it's high time we all admit it, starting with Fountain Square, which boasts redeveloped eateries.

"This is the happening spot," said Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory. "It really is." Mayor Mallory continued continued on, mentioning other gems of the city. "[We're] one of the few cites that has a world class opera. A world class ballet. We have art museums, we have everything. For the variety of arts and cultural venues that we have to offer, it's hard to beat Cincinnati."

Read full article here:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=4b096d52-93a8-4b31-a8ec-973d2c16aa52 (http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=4b096d52-93a8-4b31-a8ec-973d2c16aa52)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on May 19, 2008, 07:06:04 PM
^ My word ...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on May 20, 2008, 12:09:42 AM
I don't want to curse anything, but the last time there was this kind of positive energy in Cincinnati was in the fall of 2000 through spring of 2001. It is really hard to overestimate how much those riots set the city back. The big difference was even with the positive energy around then, the foundations of the riots with the various radical groups causing trouble were present.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on May 20, 2008, 11:24:40 AM
^You're right, but let's not also forget that the simultaneous economic downturn had a bit to do with it, as well as the general shock the nation received that September.  Those groups took advantage of weakness, but they didn't have much of a constructive plan to address the things they were supposedly agitating for.  I'd also say that the lack of projected revenue (or at least the numbers that were sold to the people as the projected revenue) from the stadium deals was a big problem for the City post 2001 (even though it was under the purview of Hamilton County), in that it strikes me as having been a major cause for the delay in getting on with the Banks project.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on May 20, 2008, 11:38:59 AM
^ Agreed.



What a great article.  It would have been nice if they had spelled "Bellevue" correctly, but that's a pretty minor quibble.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on May 20, 2008, 11:50:40 AM
^ Damn, I didn't even notice that either!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 04, 2008, 10:45:00 AM
DCI changes leadership, looks ahead
http://www.pulsedt.com/blogs/default.asp?Display=2193
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on June 21, 2008, 06:05:06 PM
$1M in ads exalt downtown
Aimed at those within 20-minute drive

BY KEITH T. REED | KREED@ENQUIRER.COM


http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080621/BIZ01/806210341/1076/BIZ
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 21, 2008, 09:42:21 PM
I like it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on July 15, 2008, 09:31:36 AM
Some of limelight falls on host city
Cincinnati works for positive image

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080715/NEWS01/807150331/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on July 15, 2008, 01:17:18 PM
I have an Aunt and Uncle who live out in Landen. Obviously given where they chose to live, they are not huge into the urban scene. Since they are my family I respect their opinion even if I don't agree with it. I had lunch with them a week or so ago and we briefly talked about DT Cincy and these were the points they mentioned...

-Downtown is nothing compared to what it was in the 80's.

-The riots have had an enormous impact on people's perceptions of downtown. Only furthering the stigma and stereotype that already existed about OTR.

-There isn't anything DT (shopping and restaurant wise) that you can't get in the suburbs. Granted there are some unique places but they seemed to act like it wasn't unique enough to entice to come down more often.

Even if you don't agree with those thoughts I think they are important to consider b/c perception is reality.

Personally I think the biggest issue the city has to tackle is OTR and they are trying but that will take years to completely gentrify. The city needs to follow in Chicago's footsteps. If Chicago can re-gentrify and re-vitalize Cabrini Green than Cincy can fix OTR. Granted, the changes of Cabrini Green have not come w/o consequences. Gangs had to go somewhere...they just pushed further out into the city fringes and first ring burbs.

The city should not be made to accomodate to the suburban mindset but I don't think it is too much to ask for people to feel safe walking down the street.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on July 15, 2008, 02:05:32 PM
Downtown has something like 90,000 people down there on the average day and an average of 0.4 violent crimes a day (this includes all robberies whether or not there was actually violence applied), meaning your chances of being a victim of a violent crime are 1 in 225,000.  To put it another way, if you went downtown every day for 616 years, you would be a victim of violent crime, on average, 1 time.  This also assumes that everyone is equally likely to be a victim, which probably isn't the case.

Perception isn't reality, that is why they are two different words. 

There are tons of things Downtown, shoping and resturaunt wise, and especially arts and entertaiment wise that you can get only downtown. 

If you don't feel safe walking down the street downtown, it is your problem, not the city's.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on July 15, 2008, 02:10:46 PM
-Downtown is nothing compared to what it was in the 80's.

I get this sometimes too and to each is their own I guess, but these comments baffle me!   Now I was born in '80, yet my parents took me downtown quite often.   I personally believe the entire basin (CBD, OTR, and NKY) are all better off today than they were in the 70,80, or 90's.    I am viewing this from an Economic Development and crime standpoint.   Plus the population was declining in all three decades. (4 counting the 60's).     Dunno!!    My honest opinion is things are better now than at any point in the last 40 years.     The potential for the area to TAKE OFF has been building for years (I say 2001)  but we are only 2 -3 short years before the MASSES recognize this.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on July 15, 2008, 02:13:45 PM
Unfortunately, your aunt and uncle are right as to the comparison with the 80s. Downtown really collapsed from the mid-90s through the mid-00s (which to some degree marks the irrelevancy of the convention center in the national market). It is better, but in the 80s, dt still had a number of major department stores and saw quite a number of major bldg. projects. The Reds and Bengals didn't suck either (esp. the late 80s).

We are seven years out from the riots. They are what they are. It is also key that riots were part of a broader radicalization that started around '99 and lasted through '02 or '03 that really exacerbated the latent tensions between parts of the black community and the suburban middle class. It was the perceived inability of city politicians to stand up to folks like Kabaka Oba and similar nuts that made the 'riots' so damaging. Toss in the craziness of the anti-globalization protesters and viola.

OTR is just a convenient excuse, esp. if they came down in the 80s and 90s when the public housing on Ezzard Charles was mostly extant and a major center of crime.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on July 15, 2008, 02:20:26 PM

Perception isn't reality, that is why they are two different words. 


I beg to differ.

I worked for a family owned regional grocery store that had to sell out precisely because our prices were perceived to be higher. In field work done the company constantly was illustrating that our prices on certain items were competitive with competing grocers. However, once the idea was planted in the consumer's mind...it was too late.

You can throw out all the stats you want but the general population isn't going to care about them. Its not that they aren't smart enough...they don't feel as if they have the time (nor do they feel they should have to take the time) to analyze statistics.

As long as they hear the words murder, rape, and robbery associated with the City of Cincinnati geographical area they won't care what the details are.

As I said, the City needs to look at what Chicago has done with Cabrini Green and what NY did with the 'Broken Windows' policy. Does anyone remember what Times Square use to be like? Note: See the movie Forrest Gump for a refresher.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on July 15, 2008, 02:31:50 PM

If you don't feel safe walking down the street downtown, it is your problem, not the city's.

You can quote as many numbers as you want, but it still doesn't do jack shit to help placate the nerves of people who are scared of coming downtown.  I go downtown often, and go to school, and therefore live, in downtown Washington DC, and thus am no stranger to being in an urban environment.  That said, downtown Cincy DOES feel unsafe in certain areas after dark.  Most of the problem is parts of downtown just have no people around at night, so when you get approached by a pan handler or see a homeless person coming towards you, whether they are violent or not, you get scared.  Cincinnati has made improvements to downtown, and I think it will continue to improve, but to say that people feeling unsafe in downtown Cincinnati is not the city's fault is not correct. 

I think sometimes people on this board are so staunch in defending Cincinnati that they can't objectively look at an issue and actually criticise the city.  I understand the need to defend the city in light of so many bashers on other sites, but it comes across as either denial or severe naivety, and a provincial outlook.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 15, 2008, 03:01:54 PM
Downtown has something like 90,000 people down there on the average day and an average of 0.4 violent crimes a day (this includes all robberies whether or not there was actually violence applied), meaning your chances of being a victim of a violent crime are 1 in 225,000.  To put it another way, if you went downtown every day for 616 years, you would be a victim of violent crime, on average, 1 time.  This also assumes that everyone is equally likely to be a victim, which probably isn't the case.

Perception isn't reality, that is why they are two different words. 

There are tons of things Downtown, shoping and resturaunt wise, and especially arts and entertaiment wise that you can get only downtown. 

If you don't feel safe walking down the street downtown, it is your problem, not the city's.

That's an amazing post.   :clap:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 15, 2008, 03:10:02 PM

Perception isn't reality, that is why they are two different words. 


I beg to differ.

I worked for a family owned regional grocery store that had to sell out precisely because our prices were perceived to be higher. In field work done the company constantly was illustrating that our prices on certain items were competitive with competing grocers. However, once the idea was planted in the consumer's mind...it was too late.

You can throw out all the stats you want but the general population isn't going to care about them. Its not that they aren't smart enough...they don't feel as if they have the time (nor do they feel they should have to take the time) to analyze statistics.

As long as they hear the words murder, rape, and robbery associated with the City of Cincinnati geographical area they won't care what the details are.

As I said, the City needs to look at what Chicago has done with Cabrini Green and what NY did with the 'Broken Windows' policy. Does anyone remember what Times Square use to be like? Note: See the movie Forrest Gump for a refresher.

You can have a perception of what reality is, but reality is reality...and perception is what someone perceives.  They are two different words with two different meanings.  Perception is not reality, but some people seem to think so.  That in and of itself is unfortunate.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on July 15, 2008, 03:33:19 PM
^For all intents and purposes with regards to people not coming downtown because of perecieved danger, it is the same.  Or I guess you could say perception of crime does equal not coming downtown, even if the stats don't necessarilly agree with that perception.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on July 15, 2008, 06:24:07 PM
Lets put it into perspective: 

-if you go downtown every day, your odds of being injured (or threatened injury) in a violent crime are 1 in 225,000; you can expect to be injured 1 time every 616 years

-if you drive, your odds of being injured in a car accident are 1 in 37,500 [300 million in USA, 2.9 million accidents with injuries a year] you can expect to be injured in a car accident 1 time every 102 years.

-your odds of being murdered downtown 1 in 33 million; or 1 time every 91,324 years. 

-your odds of dying while driving 1 in 2.6 million [same population 42,500 automobile deaths per year]; or 1 time every 7,124 years.




Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on July 15, 2008, 06:25:15 PM
Lets all remember automobiles are the leading cause of violent death in the united states
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on July 15, 2008, 07:58:22 PM

Perception isn't reality, that is why they are two different words. 


I beg to differ.

I worked for a family owned regional grocery store that had to sell out precisely because our prices were perceived to be higher. In field work done the company constantly was illustrating that our prices on certain items were competitive with competing grocers. However, once the idea was planted in the consumer's mind...it was too late.

You can throw out all the stats you want but the general population isn't going to care about them. Its not that they aren't smart enough...they don't feel as if they have the time (nor do they feel they should have to take the time) to analyze statistics.

As long as they hear the words murder, rape, and robbery associated with the City of Cincinnati geographical area they won't care what the details are.

As I said, the City needs to look at what Chicago has done with Cabrini Green and what NY did with the 'Broken Windows' policy. Does anyone remember what Times Square use to be like? Note: See the movie Forrest Gump for a refresher.

You can have a perception of what reality is, but reality is reality...and perception is what someone perceives.  They are two different words with two different meanings.  Perception is not reality, but some people seem to think so.  That in and of itself is unfortunate.

Yeah...it's just a saying but in a certain way of thinking it is true. Each of our own realities is different because we have different views and opinions...i.e. perceptions.

Example: The reality of my 'world' due to my experiences, beliefs, and opinions is that Barack Obama is not the best candidate in this fall's election. However, many of you have a different belief system and therefore everything you hear about Obama you react completely different to than I would. There are no stats that can prove or disprove who is right.

Sure you can use ratios and chances of probability but they are only numbers and cannot predict when any said event will happen to any random person.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 15, 2008, 08:01:00 PM
^If you think walking around downtown Cincinnati is dangerous, you're stupid.  I'd be a lot more worried about getting hurt hitting a deer on the drive back to Clermont County.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on July 15, 2008, 08:07:58 PM
^If you think walking around downtown Cincinnati is dangerous, you're stupid.  I'd be a lot more worried about getting hurt hitting a deer on the drive back to Clermont County.   

Did I ever say that? Why is everyone taking my comments out of context? I'm just relating to a story. I really do wonder if we are objective enough around here. Optimism is a good thing but lets not be blinded. I don't live in Cincy and I haven't walked around (at night) there in ages which is why I can't say either way who is right and who is wrong.

I'm just presenting a mindset that exists and trying to understand it. To label people who think different and just brush them under the rug as ignorant and unenlightened is not helping in providing a true, well-rounded analysis of the state of the City. If a significant portion of the population has a negative view of some aspect of downtown, true or not, that is a problem that needs to be remedied in some way or another.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 15, 2008, 08:25:25 PM
^If you think walking around downtown Cincinnati is dangerous, you're stupid.  I'd be a lot more worried about getting hurt hitting a deer on the drive back to Clermont County.   

Did I ever say that? Why is everyone taking my comments out of context? I'm just relating to a story. I really do wonder if we are objective enough around here. Optimism is a good thing but lets not be blinded. I don't live in Cincy and I haven't walked around (at night) there in ages which is why I can't say either way who is right and who is wrong.

I'm just presenting a mindset that exists and trying to understand it. To label people who think different and just brush them under the rug as ignorant and unenlightened is not helping in providing a true, well-rounded analysis of the state of the City. If a significant portion of the population has a negative view of some aspect of downtown, true or not, that is a problem that needs to be remedied in some way or another.

I think people are being a bit unfair here, you were simply pointing out what some people you know think about the inner-city.  These are certainly not unusual views, of the inner-city, but many on this forum find them unfair to say the least.

Cincinnati has to work on some image problems within its own region and beyond...but for right now I would suggest that the focus remain on improving the current situation before we start throwing money into major PR campaigns.  So for the mean time people out in the 'burbs will have to continue thinking that there are bodies piled up in the streets, that there is nothing to do or anything unique to see Downtown and the rest of the inner-city.

The facts are what they are, Cincinnati is not a dangerous place and our crime numbers continue to improve while virtually every other city in the U.S. is seeing the opposite.  The restaurants and businesses can not be found virtually anywhere else in the region, and more and more places continue to open that expand the amount of options you have for nightlife.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on July 15, 2008, 08:51:51 PM
^If you think walking around downtown Cincinnati is dangerous, you're stupid.  I'd be a lot more worried about getting hurt hitting a deer on the drive back to Clermont County.  

Did I ever say that? Why is everyone taking my comments out of context? I'm just relating to a story. I really do wonder if we are objective enough around here. Optimism is a good thing but lets not be blinded. I don't live in Cincy and I haven't walked around (at night) there in ages which is why I can't say either way who is right and who is wrong.

I'm just presenting a mindset that exists and trying to understand it. To label people who think different and just brush them under the rug as ignorant and unenlightened is not helping in providing a true, well-rounded analysis of the state of the City. If a significant portion of the population has a negative view of some aspect of downtown, true or not, that is a problem that needs to be remedied in some way or another.

I think people are being a bit unfair here, you were simply pointing out what some people you know think about the inner-city.  These are certainly not unusual views, of the inner-city, but many on this forum find them unfair to say the least.

Cincinnati has to work on some image problems within its own region and beyond...but for right now I would suggest that the focus remain on improving the current situation before we start throwing money into major PR campaigns.  So for the mean time people out in the 'burbs will have to continue thinking that there are bodies piled up in the streets, that there is nothing to do or anything unique to see Downtown and the rest of the inner-city.

The facts are what they are, Cincinnati is not a dangerous place and our crime numbers continue to improve while virtually every other city in the U.S. is seeing the opposite.  The restaurants and businesses can not be found virtually anywhere else in the region, and more and more places continue to open that expand the amount of options you have for nightlife.

Well said.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on July 15, 2008, 11:34:21 PM
^If you think walking around downtown Cincinnati is dangerous, you're stupid.  I'd be a lot more worried about getting hurt hitting a deer on the drive back to Clermont County.  

Did I ever say that? Why is everyone taking my comments out of context? I'm just relating to a story. I really do wonder if we are objective enough around here. Optimism is a good thing but lets not be blinded. I don't live in Cincy and I haven't walked around (at night) there in ages which is why I can't say either way who is right and who is wrong.

I'm just presenting a mindset that exists and trying to understand it. To label people who think different and just brush them under the rug as ignorant and unenlightened is not helping in providing a true, well-rounded analysis of the state of the City. If a significant portion of the population has a negative view of some aspect of downtown, true or not, that is a problem that needs to be remedied in some way or another.

I think people are being a bit unfair here, you were simply pointing out what some people you know think about the inner-city.  These are certainly not unusual views, of the inner-city, but many on this forum find them unfair to say the least.

Cincinnati has to work on some image problems within its own region and beyond...but for right now I would suggest that the focus remain on improving the current situation before we start throwing money into major PR campaigns.  So for the mean time people out in the 'burbs will have to continue thinking that there are bodies piled up in the streets, that there is nothing to do or anything unique to see Downtown and the rest of the inner-city.

The facts are what they are, Cincinnati is not a dangerous place and our crime numbers continue to improve while virtually every other city in the U.S. is seeing the opposite.  The restaurants and businesses can not be found virtually anywhere else in the region, and more and more places continue to open that expand the amount of options you have for nightlife.

I agree completely with that statement.  To simply say that people who think downtown is dangerous are stupid does not help the situation at all.  It is important that the city hear this criticism, work to make it better (which downtown Cincy is getting better all the time), build up attractions to lure in suburbanites, and then work on PR to get the message accross.  Downtown Cincinnati has a lot to offer, and while I personally agree that crime isn't much of a deterent for me, I have felt threatened and uncomfortable downtown at times and I spend 8 months out of the year living in a downtown.  We cannot simply ignore the safety perception issues, or point out that driving a car is more dangerous than downtown.

Thomasbw, you often use the car example to somehow prove that coming downtown is significantly safer than driving.  Do you really think that is a solid argument?  Driving in Cincinnati is all but unavoidable; going downtown is certainly not.  Plus, of those 90,000 dwellers(I suspect that number is inflated, and surely does not reflect weekend numbers...), how many of them do you think drove just to get downtown.  All of this is moot, however, because I have to believe you know the difference between actual crime, and unsafe feelings.  All it takes is for a person to feel threatened once to form an opinion.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on July 15, 2008, 11:42:12 PM
The crazy thing is that there are a lot of places in Greater Cincinnati that I would feel uncomfortable walking around at night (including most of the urban parks), but the CBD isn't in the top 100. Even in high crime cities like Philly, Baltimore, and Richmond the CBD is the among the safest places to walk around. The 'city' and 'downtown' are two different places.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 15, 2008, 11:55:37 PM
Think of the times and locations you felt uncomfortable at when Downtown.  Then ask yourself if you were in a comparable situation out in the suburbs (or anywhere for that matter) if you would or would not feel uncomfortable as well.  I tend to think that if you were walking around Union Centre Blvd or Kenwood Mall area late at night or alone that you would feel just as uncomfortable.  This doesn't occur though for various reasons, so people tend not to get that uncomfortable feeling about those places like they might with an urban setting that does draw you in late at night.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on July 16, 2008, 09:34:41 AM
Think of the times and locations you felt uncomfortable at when Downtown.  Then ask yourself if you were in a comparable situation out in the suburbs (or anywhere for that matter) if you would or would not feel uncomfortable as well.  I tend to think that if you were walking around Union Centre Blvd or Kenwood Mall area late at night or alone that you would feel just as uncomfortable.  This doesn't occur though for various reasons, so people tend not to get that uncomfortable feeling about those places like they might with an urban setting that does draw you in late at night.

Last year, I met up with some friends at a restaurant in Rookwood Commons, so my car was near the restaurants.  After we ate, I decided to go some shopping by myself, and I ended up walking down near Wild Oats/Whole Foods.  I finished my shopping around 9 PM.  No one was in the part of the Mall, and it was rather empty and dark.  I felt very uneasy walking back to my car.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on July 16, 2008, 09:56:58 AM
I just use the car example to show that Perceptions and realities can be very disconnected. 

It isn't 90,000 dwellers, it is the 65,000 workers, the 8 or so million people who come to downtown each year for events and then the 8,000 residents, the people who stay in the hotels and go to conventions, it averages out to be about 89k per day if I remember correctly.

I honestly think the real reason most people feel 'afraid' or 'uncomfortable' downtown is that they either 1. are badly misinformed about the crime situation and/or 2. they have to interact with black men in a public setting, not the mall, not the grocery store, but the sidewalk.

Maybe it is something else, I hope it is, but if I had to guess, that is why the average suburbanite is afraid of downtown.

Now there are other reasons, homelessness is a big one, but that is my best guess.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 16, 2008, 10:07:27 AM
>We cannot simply ignore the safety perception issues, or point out that driving a car is more dangerous than downtown.

Well I tell people they're 180 degrees wrong to their face.  Because if they don't hear it from you, they're not going to hear it from anyone else.  Their friends don't live in the city and few local media people live in the city, so who are they going to know who's got first hand experience?  Jaws drop when I tell people I walk or bike through these supposedly dangerous neighborhoods on a nightly basis and nothing ever happens.  Then they get even madder when they realize you're spending almost nothing on gas.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on July 16, 2008, 10:56:07 AM
I honestly think the real reason most people feel 'afraid' or 'uncomfortable' downtown is that they either 1. are badly misinformed about the crime situation and/or 2. they have to interact with black men in a public setting, not the mall, not the grocery store, but the sidewalk.

Maybe it is something else, I hope it is, but if I had to guess, that is why the average suburbanite is afraid of downtown.

Now there are other reasons, homelessness is a big one, but that is my best guess.

I think it may be a cultural thing more than a race thing. At least I hope it is. Meaning that it isn't skin color that is causing the discomfort it is the 'thuggish' look. If I'm walking down a non-primary street at night by myself and encounter someone dressed in commonly perceived gang or 'thug' attire I don't care if they are white, black, hispanic, asian or what have you, I'm probably going to feel at least a bit uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on July 16, 2008, 10:59:30 AM
The crazy thing is that there are a lot of places in Greater Cincinnati that I would feel uncomfortable walking around at night (including most of the urban parks), but the CBD isn't in the top 100. Even in high crime cities like Philly, Baltimore, and Richmond the CBD is the among the safest places to walk around. The 'city' and 'downtown' are two different places.

Unfortunately for many geographically unaware people they are one and the same. If the crime problems of OTR weren't located literally across the street from DT, I don't think it would be perceived to be quite as bad.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on July 22, 2008, 09:34:00 AM
Taft contributing to urban vitality with new conference center
http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/taftcenter0722.aspx
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on July 22, 2008, 09:51:25 AM
^ sweet!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on July 22, 2008, 01:55:40 PM
Great project!  I am sure the Enquirer will twist it into a negative somehow (when they run the story two weeks from now).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 26, 2008, 09:41:16 AM
Downtown Cincinnati getting first vet clinic
http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/ccah0826.aspx

Work on downtown Cincinnati’s first veterinary clinic should start at the beginning of September.

Dr. Robert Biederman Jr. is in the process of relocating his Cincinnati Central Animal Hospital from Walnut Hills to a building at 427 Plum Street, near the Duke Energy Center.

Biederman closed on the vacant 9,800-square-foot building at the end of June, and has hired LG Tokarsky & Associates, Inc. of Mason to design the space.

"We’re pretty much starting from scratch," Biederman says.  "The building’s an empty shell."

The veterinary clinic will take up the basement and the first two floors, with a residence created above.

Biederman believes that being downtown will help his practice thrive.

"From our market studies, we’ve determined that there certainly is a need for veterinary services downtown," he says.  "It’s only a four or five minute drive from our current location, and the nature of the neighborhood itself helps."

Biederman, who has been with Cincinnati Central Animal Hospital since taking over the practice 22 years ago, says that the E McMillan Street location will have to close.

"It had more to do with the economics of the whole move," he says.  "It’s no small chunk of change to get things moved.  Closing the Walnut Hills location just made more sense."

The project is scheduled for completion in mid-January.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Maximillian on August 26, 2008, 10:55:21 PM
What are we defining as "Downtown"??  Some local real estate agents and media types  are calling Over the Rhine "Downtown". Guess there was another murder "Downtown" at Findlay and Vine last week. No wonder people think it's  dangerous in the CBD

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on September 03, 2008, 11:11:08 PM
Downtown's image improving
http://www.urbancincy.com/2008/09/downtowns-image-improving.html

Downtown Cincinnati Inc. (DCI) has recently kicked off a $1 million marketing campaign aimed at improving the image of Downtown Cincinnati. It seems to be already that the affects of new restaurants, shops, bars/clubs, and increased activity all over Downtown are improving the neighborhood's image.

In UrbanCincy's monthly poll for August 2008 the question was posed: "How have your perceptions of Downtown changed over recent months?" The results were clear and the message is loud and clear that the perception of Downtown is in fact improving. Nearly 350 votes were cast, with roughly 46% of the repsondents selecting the 'greatly improved' option. Another 39% said that their perception, of Downtown, was 'somewhat improved.'

The efforts of political and community leaders have yielded great results thus far. Results that are starting to settle in with people across the region. There are those who still do not recognize the progress that has been made, and this is what DCI's marketing campaign will need to touch on. Those of us who know Downtown, know that things have improved significantly over the past 5 years. Things look like they are poised to continue to get better, and with time, perceptions will continue to change.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on September 04, 2008, 10:42:12 AM
^It's hard to deny the progress that downtown has made and is continuing to make, but the average reader of UrbanCincy is probably going to be more engaged in the city and be more of an advocate for dt than most around the region, so it's probably not that great of a judge to see how effective the advertising campaign was.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on September 04, 2008, 10:55:51 AM
^It's hard to deny the progress that downtown has made and is continuing to make, but the average reader of UrbanCincy is probably going to be more engaged in the city and be more of an advocate for dt than most around the region, so it's probably not that great of a judge to see how effective the advertising campaign was.

Obviously readers of UrbanCincy are probably more supportive of the center city...it's the focus of the site.  But the site receives traffic from 46/50 states and from quite a few countries from around the world.  Polls and articles like this do make an impression to those who may have stumbled upon the site through a Google Search, but glance at the stories anyway.

Traffic Breakdown for past couple of weeks...

Top 5 States:
1. Ohio - 2,299 (my IP address is not counted)
2. Kentucky - 789
3. Georgia - 203 (my IP address is not counted)
4. California - 144
5. New York - 123

Top 5 Ohio locations:
1. Cincinnati - 1,654 (my IP address is not counted)
2. West Chester - 105
3. Miamiville - 92
4. Cleveland - 58
5. Columbus - 44

Top 5 Kentucky locations:
1. Newport - 328
2. Covington - 327
3. Ft. Thomas - 45
4. Ft. Mitchell - 26
5. Lexington - 20
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: gotribe on September 04, 2008, 11:05:59 AM
Pretty intresting.  So, do alot of people from Cincy move down to Atlanta?  From Cleveland, it's probably an 11 hour drive, from Cincy, probably only about 6, so I can see that.  I just don't know any other reason why Georgia's numbers would be so high. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: AndrewN on September 04, 2008, 11:54:49 AM
one word----Delta.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on September 19, 2008, 02:01:16 PM
New State of Downtown: http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/Jan-Jun_2008_State_of_Downtown_Report.pdf

Good News:
Part One Crimes down 18%
Office Vacant drops 2% to 17.2%, second lowest in the region (kenwood montgomery is #1)
18 business opened, 11 closed (looking at the list, no terrible losses)
Streetcar is in the report
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on September 24, 2008, 05:27:42 PM
Macy's chief says downtown hopping

Don’t tell Terry J. Lundgren, chief executive of Macy’s Inc., the nation’s largest department store chain, that downtown Cincinnati is dead on a weeknight in the fall.  “I know I didn’t get to sleep early last night because of the band playing on Fountain Square,” said Lundgren, who was staying in a downtown hotel that night. “And that’s a good thing.''

Lundgren made those comments before a group of about 600 people Wednesday attending the annual luncheon of the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber.  Lundgren, the keynote speaker, said a renewed downtown with more people living in the Central Business District has rippled through the local economy and led to more spending at the department chain’s Fountain Place store, one of seven Macy’s in the region.

Read full article here:
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080924/BIZ01/309240071/1055/NEWS (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080924/BIZ01/309240071/1055/NEWS)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on September 24, 2008, 06:11:43 PM
^ Good.  Maybe they'll improve the hours and selection at the Macy's at Fountain Place.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on September 24, 2008, 06:37:03 PM
They have a great selection for men's clothing, I don't know about womens
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: sfisher on September 24, 2008, 07:05:04 PM
^I have to disagree. I can hardly ever find clothes at the downtown location, and often find myself being directed to the Kenwood location for items I want. And don't get me started on their lack of decent sneakers.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on September 24, 2008, 07:32:31 PM
The downtown store is a joke compared to Kenwood.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on September 24, 2008, 08:26:17 PM
I go into Downtown Macy's and they have plenty of suits and ties and dress shirts and dress shoes, polos, sweaters, etc.  What else are people trying to get that they don't have at Downtown Macy's?

 For 'cool' clothes you go to Park + Vine or Denim or MetroNation
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on September 24, 2008, 08:44:16 PM
For 'cool' clothes you go to Park + Vine or Denim or MetroNation

If I could only fit into their clothing.  :(  I think their women's clothing is made for super-skinny chicks.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on September 24, 2008, 08:47:10 PM
I also like the DT location for men's clothing. I'm not just saying that ... it's not bad. Depends on what line you wear as well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jdm00 on September 24, 2008, 09:19:13 PM
I always make it a point to go downtown for Christmas and do shopping downtown at that Macy's.  It's very underrated--not as great a selection as Kenwood, but still good.  Plus, you have Jos. Bank and Brooks Brothers (and Hunt Club) too, and Saks...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on September 24, 2008, 09:29:47 PM
I also shop quite a bit at the downtown Macy's.  However, I think they made a huge mistake by removing their bridal registry program along with their juniors department. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on September 24, 2008, 11:18:25 PM
I pitched a "register downtown" campaign a year or two back but it didn't gain any traction, maybe I should mention it to Ginsberg again
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on September 26, 2008, 11:02:44 AM
^Yes you should...the Downtown Gift Card is a step in the right direction of unifying the Downtown area businesses.  A registry would be a logical next step.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on October 21, 2008, 09:02:14 AM
From the 10/21 Enquirer

"The downtown business district experienced the lowest vacancy rate [in the region] at 15.2% for the [third] quarter.  Northern Kentucky had the highest rate at 26.4%."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on October 21, 2008, 09:13:07 AM
From the 10/21 Enquirer

"The downtown business district experienced the lowest vacancy rate [in the region] at 15.2% for the [third] quarter.  Northern Kentucky had the highest rate at 26.4%."

While I'm happy for downtown getting a good stat... how is NKY all lumped into one group?  "Northern Kentucky" is a nebulous term that includes between 3 and 9 counties.  I'd love to know how much or how little of KY is actually being represented in that group, but I'm guessing that the Enquirer didn't go into more detail.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on October 21, 2008, 09:16:22 AM
but I'm guessing that the Enquirer didn't go into more detail.

they did not
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on October 22, 2008, 08:42:01 AM
^ Figures.  They have the shoddiest reporting ever.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: rekxu83 on October 22, 2008, 10:06:06 AM
Even given the nature of the crappy reporting....This tells me that some of the suburban office parks in both OH and KY are emptying to the benefit of downtown Cincy.

15.2% is still frighteningly high, although it's probably par for the course in the midwest.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on October 22, 2008, 11:22:46 AM
Chicago has 14.7% vacancy
Atlanta 24%
NYC 5.1%
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on October 22, 2008, 11:23:48 AM
page 13 for other cities
http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/StateofDowntown_2007.pdf
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on October 22, 2008, 12:18:51 PM
I don't think it's going downtown. It was just over built. I imagine that there is a fair bit of empty space these days in the area from Buttermilk Pike down to Mt. Zion Road exit and over toward airport.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on October 22, 2008, 12:45:26 PM
I don't think it's going downtown. It was just over built. I imagine that there is a fair bit of empty space these days in the area from Buttermilk Pike down to Mt. Zion Road exit and over toward airport.

Agreed.  What is helping downtown is there are legitimate re-uses for residential taking the old, unwanted office space off the market.  Out in Blue ash where the vacany rate is about 20%, there is no re-use market for the 1960s and 1970s office space, but people keep building more offices out there and increasing the vacancy rates
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on October 22, 2008, 12:53:00 PM
^Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: rekxu83 on October 22, 2008, 12:58:26 PM
Am I reading that chart right? Were we really less than 5% in 1998? That's amazing to me.

I'm also glad we're in the group that has higher vacancies in the suburbs. Places like Detroit and KC have their work cut out for them.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on October 22, 2008, 01:02:16 PM
Cincinnati's suburban rent for office space is by far the lowest of the compared cities in the reprt.  The CBD rent is average and yet, DT Cincinnati is doing better vacancy wise.  This is surprising to see.  Its great to see!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on October 22, 2008, 02:19:57 PM
This is 'benefit' of a having a slow growth economy over the last ten years. It would be nice to get the angle more upward relative to other cities rather than downward, but it remains a strong point for the region.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on November 21, 2008, 10:13:12 AM
KZF to move headquarters to redone downtown space

KZF Design will spend $6 million renovating an early 20th century downtown building into a headquarters 40 percent larger than its existing Walnut Hills space.  The architecture firm has purchased 700 Broadway, the longtime headquarters of ST Media Group, for $1.14 million, according to the Hamilton County Auditor. Renovations will be complete next summer.

ST moved to Sycamore Township earlier this year.  “KZF Design is intending for the . . . building to be a showplace in LEED Silver, workplace design,” said CEO Bill Wilson in an e-mail. The firm has operated out of the Grand Baldwin building since 1987.

While many architecture firms have faltered in recent months, KZF has managed to grow. Its 2009 backlog of work is $3 million higher than 2008, said Natascha Grody, director of the firm’s branding division. KZF added 15 new employees in 2008 and borrowed several workers from other local firms. It employs more than 100.  Company executives attribute the firm’s expansion to its focus on the government and justice sectors and workplace design. It operates in eight markets, with offices in Cincinnati, Atlanta, and Tampa and Orlando, Fla.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/11/24/story10.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/11/24/story10.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on January 03, 2009, 03:18:25 PM
Downtown retail looks to be doing quite well...
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,10129.msg356295.html#msg356295 (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,10129.msg356295.html#msg356295)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on January 21, 2009, 11:35:12 AM
Burke to move into ADP facility

Downtown market research firm Burke Inc. will spend more than $10 million converting a West Seventh Street office building into a headquarters for its 229 employees.  The firm paid $6.3 million in December for the building formerly owned by Automatic Data Processing Inc. ADP moved its 170 employees to Florence last summer.

“We have experienced steady growth over the last several years,” said Andrea Fisher, Burke’s marketing communications manager. Burke earned $60.4 million in revenue in 2008, up from $53.1 million in 2007. It also has 152 part-time employees in Milford.  Fisher declined to share names of its clients or specific reasons for its success. The firm’s biggest client sectors include consumer packaged goods manufacturers, telecommunications, financial services and pharmaceuticals.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/01/19/story4.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/01/19/story4.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on January 21, 2009, 01:08:01 PM
17.7 percent vacancy is the 2nd lowest in the region (Kenwood)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: rekxu83 on January 21, 2009, 02:05:04 PM
I'm sure the lion share of that vacancy is the non-class A office space. Time to convert some of those older office buildings into apartments and condo's.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on January 21, 2009, 02:25:27 PM
I'm sure the lion share of that vacancy is the non-class A office space. Time to convert some of those older office buildings into apartments and condo's.

If I remember correctly, the C is really high vacancy, but the B is rather low, maybe 13 percent
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on January 23, 2009, 08:20:53 AM
Downtown Cincinnati taxing district seeks more money, more visitors

The Downtown Cincinnati Improvement District (DCID) wants an 18 percent increase in service fees and hopes to create a $3.9 million marketing pool to persuade suburbanites to visit the city’s center over the next several years.  That signals a major policy shift for the special taxing district, which revamped its budgets in 2002 to devote more resources to keeping downtown clean and safe.

“The board … felt it was imperative to allocate a certain amount of money to protect or defend the significant investment that’s being made by various retailers, restaurateurs and entertainment venues,” said Richard Kimbler, a residential developer who chairs the board. “We want people to be more aware of what’s going on downtown, and we want them to come downtown.”

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/01/26/tidbits1.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/01/26/tidbits1.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on February 23, 2009, 12:58:21 PM
Downtown owners asked to pay more for services

The Downtown Cincinnati Improvement District is asking downtown property owners to approve an increase in the fee charged annually to pay for a variety of services.  The fees pay for annual events such as the Downtown Tour of Living home show and the Downtown Ambassadors program, which employs 25 fulltime public safety workers.

The proposal, which requires approval from roughly 60 percent of property owners downtown, calls for an 18 percent increase in fees over the next four years. If passed, it would boost the district's budget to $2.3 million by 2013.  The improvement district uses the dollars to pay the non-profit Downtown Cincinnati Inc. for marketing services and increased safety initiatives.

Read full article here:
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090223/BIZ01/902230377/1055/NEWS (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090223/BIZ01/902230377/1055/NEWS)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on February 26, 2009, 07:16:58 AM
Mallory declares Cincinnati is strong, prepared

 Mayor Mark Mallory declared tonight that “the state of Cincinnati is strong, and we are well prepared to face the challenges of the future.”  Mallory delivered his fourth annual State of the City Address at the Duke Energy Convention Center’s grand ballroom.

Throughout his address, the mayor pointed to partnerships as key to the city’s progress. He cited specific examples in the areas of job creation, public safety, the environment, neighborhood development and youth.  “Tonight, as we have reflected on the success of last year, it is clear that our greatest accomplishments are the result of strong partnerships,” he said. “We have come a long way, but we still have challenges ahead. The way we get through them is through partnerships.”

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/02/23/daily42.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/02/23/daily42.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on February 26, 2009, 12:09:44 PM
^ Wow, the idiots that comment on these stories amaze me... Is it just me, or do you want to round them all up and just punch 'em in the face sometimes? I know it sounds harsh, but does anyone else imagine this? lol ... (sorry)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on February 26, 2009, 12:13:27 PM
^Feel ya loud and clear!             *Roundhouse*  "Aiyahhhh!"
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on February 27, 2009, 08:27:53 AM
CREW to show off Cincinnati’s urban renewal

The Commercial Real Estate Women of Greater Cincinnati will host a regional conference here in April to show off Cincinnati’s renaissance.  In fact, “urban renaissance” is the theme of the conference, which is expected to draw about 250 attendees April 23 through April 25.

“This is huge,” said Janet Rullman, an industrial hygienist with Westech Environmental Solutions and president of CREW Greater Cincinnati. “It’s really a great opportunity for us to have it here in Cincinnati.”  Conference organizers expect to draw attendees from across Ohio, as well as from markets such as Indianapolis, Louisville, Chicago and Atlanta, Rullman said.  It’s the biggest event that the 13-year-old local CREW chapter has ever hosted.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/03/02/story9.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/03/02/story9.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on March 13, 2009, 09:00:36 AM
Ambassadors put sparkle in Queen City’s crown

A clean and safe downtown is an inviting downtown.  That was the premise of Downtown Cincinnati Inc.’s Downtown Ambassadors program.  Originally launched in the late 1990s, the program was beefed up in 2002 after the downtown advocacy group restructured and began focusing exclusively on making downtown a cleaner and safer place to be.

DCI went from spending about 17 percent of its budget on its safe and clean programs to close to 50 percent, said DCI CEO David Ginsburg. The program now employs 21 ambassadors, two supervisors and a social services outreach staffer to help panhandlers and homeless people downtown. It is outsourced to Block by Block, a division of Brantley Services.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/03/16/story14.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/03/16/story14.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on March 18, 2009, 10:26:26 AM
Hello. I've been lurking for sometime. Finally have something interesting to post! Hopefully this is the right place...

Has anyone noticed that Center at 600 Vine is having an antenna mast installed? Just started yesterday. iPhone pic (sorry, no zoom):

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on March 18, 2009, 10:45:40 AM
Thanks for posting and welcome aboard! What'd you think this means?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on March 18, 2009, 10:47:49 AM
New state of downtown report out

http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/Jul_Dec_2008__SOD.pdf (http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/Jul_Dec_2008__SOD.pdf)

Highlights:
Class A vacancy at 16.7% (down from 18% in 2007)
Part 1 Crimes down 9%
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on March 18, 2009, 12:08:20 PM
Thanks Cincinnatus! I'm not sure if it's a Cell Tower or a Digital Television Transmitter. Doubt it's for TV though as most of our local transmitters are around 1000ft and Center at 600 Vine is only 418ft. Sure would be nice though to eliminate Channel 5 & 12's towers from Mt. Auburn!   :-D

Construction continues:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on March 19, 2009, 03:39:22 PM
Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but PNC Tower is about to get new signage.

On Saturday, March 21st, 3rd Street will be closed between Walnut and Race, and Vine will be closed from 2nd to 4th Streets, from 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM for multiple helicopter lifts to remove and replace signs on the PNC Building. They will be using the 3rd/ Vine intersection as their staging area. The designated detour route for 3rd Street will be Walnut - 2nd - Main - Mehring - Elm.

In addition, 4th Street will be closed intermittently (10-15 minute time periods), between Walnut and Race for safety purposes each time the helicopter is traveling towards, away, or hovering near the building.


Official Release: http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/city/downloads/PNCBankSignReplacement.pdf
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 03, 2009, 09:51:29 AM
It’s had some bumps lately, but Sixth Street is finding its way back
By Lucy May Senior | Cincinnati Business Courier

Back when the Maisonette was hopping and La Normandie was packed, Sixth Street in downtown Cincinnati was a pretty posh place to be.  But after the famed five-star restaurant and its sister chop house closed in 2005, the east-west gateway into the city became better known as a way to get someplace else from the Interstate 471 ramp that feeds traffic onto it.

Now, new life is being breathed into properties along Sixth Street, and city officials are hoping for a wave of redevelopment once the economy bounces back.  “There are plenty of diamonds in the rough there,” said Michael Cervay, Cincinnati’s director of community development and planning.

Some of the biggest are at the western end of the street, not far from the recently expanded Duke Energy Convention Center.  For example, the Fifth and Race development site stretches to Sixth Street. Last year, city officials tapped the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., or 3CDC, to lead redevelopment efforts on the site, which is now home to a two-acre parking lot.

3CDC CEO Stephen Leeper said his team still is studying options for the site. He envisions a mixed-use development and said it will be tied into the existing Fountain Place development across the street that’s home to Macy’s, Tiffany & Co. and Brooks Brothers.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/04/06/focus10.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/04/06/focus10.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Living in Gin on April 03, 2009, 01:14:12 PM
Wow, I didn't know the Terrace had closed. I've been away for too long. (I guess it partially explains why the Netherland Plaza is now a Hilton, though...)

Recently there was a discussion about possibly turning a portion of the Tower Place mall into theaters. Maybe lower floors of the Terrace would be a more feasible option for renovating into theaters, since that portion of the hotel contained the ballrooms and meeting spaces, and is presumably already designed to handle large numbers of people in assembly. And of course, theaters don't need or want windows. I imagine the upper portion of the tower could be converted to condos, or maybe a boutique hotel such as W.

It would be a shame to see that building torn down, especially if it gets replaced with a bunch of suburban-style schlock or (God save us) another parking lot.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on April 03, 2009, 03:32:07 PM
The Terrace never even looked open when it was. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: BallHatGuy on April 03, 2009, 03:42:47 PM

"As the developer works to craft a pro forma for the project (Terrace Plaza), the association is working to position the building to make it an attractive prospect for redevelopment, said Gail Paul, a member of the association’s board. The project will be a challenge because of the stack of lower floors that have no windows and give the building its box-like look."


Movie Theatre!

Take elevators or escalator to second floor lobby and a multi/screen movie theatre that doesn't need windows.  The original 2nd floor windows on Vine Street through could be restored and made the lobby.  I went to a movie theatre on the Magnificant Mile in Chicago and this was basically the concept except I think it was up even higher above street level.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: rekxu83 on April 03, 2009, 04:33:57 PM
As much as I hate the Terrace architecturally, I don't want to see it torn down.  One thing they did right was put street level retail in and that needs to be preserved.

I agree that the top could be turned into some pretty sweet condo's. Just not sure what you can do with stories 2-7 (estimation) that are just a solid brick wall on the outside.

The movie theater is a good suggestion, but the only other thing I can think of is a department store....Maybe parking?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: DanB on April 03, 2009, 04:39:27 PM
Wow, I didn't know the Terrace had closed. I've been away for too long. (I guess it partially explains why the Netherland Plaza is now a Hilton, though...)


Netherland Plaza has always been a Hilton, it was previously known as The Netherland Hilton.  Not sure when the name was changed.  Hilton operated both hotels for many years.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on April 03, 2009, 04:43:03 PM


I agree that the top could be turned into some pretty sweet condo's. Just not sure what you can do with stories 2-7 (estimation) that are just a solid brick wall on the outside.

If I'm not mistaken, that is just a type of brick veneer.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on April 03, 2009, 04:44:38 PM
Netherland Plaza has always been a Hilton, it was previously known as The Netherland Hilton.  Not sure when the name was changed.  Hilton operated both hotels for many years.
Wow, I didn't know the Terrace had closed. I've been away for too long. (I guess it partially explains why the Netherland Plaza is now a Hilton, though...)

In the 90's it was the Omni Netherland Plaza.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: rekxu83 on April 03, 2009, 04:48:43 PM


I agree that the top could be turned into some pretty sweet condo's. Just not sure what you can do with stories 2-7 (estimation) that are just a solid brick wall on the outside.

If I'm not mistaken, that is just a type of brick veneer.

Interesting....wonder how much it would be to peel that back and throw some big windows on it.

Doubt these 'preservationists' would go for it. Anything that would take away from the architectural 'significance' of that 7 story blank wall would probably be frowned on...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: DanB on April 03, 2009, 04:54:52 PM
Former Cincinnati Omni Netherland Plaza Hotel Becomes a Hilton

Hilton Hotels Corporation has announced the opening of the 624-room Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza, representing another addition to the brand's growing roster of full-service hotels. Formerly the Omni Netherland Plaza Hotel, the Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza will continue to be operated and managed by Belvedere Hotels Ltd., under a franchise license agreement with Hilton Hotels Corporation.

"Hilton Hotels Corporation is pleased to have the opportunity to add another historic center city hotel to its roster, which will join the Waldorf=Astoria® in New York, the Palmer House Hilton® in Chicago and the Seelbach Hilton in Louisville," said Robert E. Dirks, senior vice president -- brand management & marketing for the Hilton brand. "Hilton looks forward to complementing the efforts of the local hotel team with our global marketing, sales and technology infrastructure. By working together, we will leverage the strength of the brand by attracting business travelers, leisure guests as well as corporate and association meetings to Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza."

The Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza has long been one of the region's foremost venues for civic, social and corporate entertaining. Recognized as a National Historic Landmark in 1994 and a charter member of the National Register of Historic Hotels, the hotel features elaborate wall and ceiling murals and frescoes, intricately detailed staircases and 1930s French Art Deco architecture. Generations of Cincinnatians have treasured memories of important celebrations and some of the city's most gracious events at the hotel, which will celebrate its 75th anniversary in 2006.

Read full article here:
http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/4012130.search?query=omni+netherland+cincinnati (http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/4012130.search?query=omni+netherland+cincinnati)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Alabama ExPat on April 14, 2009, 10:18:34 PM
Hilton did a nice job when they took it over, expanding the size of many of the rooms, and doing an overall refurb of the property.  It was starting to look rather tired and thread-bare 20 years after the previous refurb (sometime in the early 80s).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seicer on April 14, 2009, 10:25:35 PM
The Terrace would be prime for a residential apartment conversion, however, it would be a shame to see it become as junky as the Garfield, which is a former Days Inn if I recall correctly. I toured the Garfield and considered an apartment there, before I discovered much nicer and larger accommodations elsewhere. The carpeting in the units was very dated, the kitchens were extremely small, and the appliances and decor was poor at best. Reminded me of 4th & Plum in terms of vintageness.

The ground-floor renovation was very nice, and I hope it carries upward over the next few years. The pool was being renovated when I was last there in July.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on April 23, 2009, 07:20:40 PM
DCI launches annual downtown Cincinnati survey

Downtown Cincinnati Inc. announced the launch of its 2009 Downtown Perceptions Survey. The public is invited to share opinions and feedback about progress downtown here (http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/), where a link to the survey is located on the home page.

The survey information will be used by DCI to measure perceptions and help direct downtown programs and services. It takes about 20 minutes to complete the survey.  Market Tools, an independent research firm, is conducting the survey on DCI’s behalf. The survey will be available online through May 3. Results from the survey will be available in June.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/04/20/daily55.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/04/20/daily55.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 05, 2009, 09:33:29 PM
Took a stroll through Downtown this evening and Walnut Street in between 6th and 7th was nearly impassible with all the people using valet for Bootsy's, Jeff Ruby's Steakhouse and Nicholson's.  The new streetscaping there looked nice with the lights now turned.

As I made my way south live Latin music filled the air.  It was coming from the plaza in front of Nada where there was a massive gathering of people (hundreds...body to body) dancing, drinking and socializing.  Cadillac Ranch across the street was also crowded.

I then worked my way over to Fountain Square where more live Latin music filled the air and a hundred or so people were Salsa dancing on the Square.  Hundreds more stood around watching the others while also enjoying some adult beverages.

Downtown = Amazing
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seicer on May 05, 2009, 09:51:03 PM
I saw this on my Facebook feed from my boss: "...celebrated Cinco-de-mayo like a true suburbanite; dinner at Qdoba."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on May 06, 2009, 12:16:02 AM
LOL I can relate. My "celebration" was dinner at Taco Bell in between studying for finals...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ajknee on May 06, 2009, 12:29:14 PM
Does anyone have opinions? 

(http://www.wlwt.com/2009/0322/18984328_480X200.jpg)

Personally, I hate the new symbol, but I think it helps the roof looks "less" cluttered.  I haven't seen it at night though and I can't find a picture.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on May 06, 2009, 12:54:04 PM
^Actually, I liked the change at first.  It definitely looks less cluttered and they didn't light up the sign the first few weeks, which actually made the building look really classy next to Carew Tower.  Now that they're lighting it up, I think it looks tacky as well.  Oh well.  So much for the quiet dignity this building enjoyed for nearly a month.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Blue Line on May 06, 2009, 01:16:32 PM
I hate the change.  The old PNC Bank sign at least harkened back to the color choice and character of the old Central Trust sign on it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on May 06, 2009, 01:51:34 PM
and is it me or is there a new lighting scheme?  The building used to have a gold glow to it at night.  Now, it looks stark white. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on May 06, 2009, 02:43:44 PM
Took a stroll through Downtown this evening and Walnut Street in between 6th and 7th was nearly impassible with all the people using valet for Bootsy's, Jeff Ruby's Steakhouse and Nicholson's.  The new streetscaping there looked nice with the lights now turned.

As I made my way south live Latin music filled the air.  It was coming from the plaza in front of Nada where there was a massive gathering of people (hundreds...body to body) dancing, drinking and socializing.  Cadillac Ranch across the street was also crowded.

I then worked my way over to Fountain Square where more live Latin music filled the air and a hundred or so people were Salsa dancing on the Square.  Hundreds more stood around watching the others while also enjoying some adult beverages.

Downtown = Amazing

Does Bootsy's have any signage up yet? The rendering showed a large top hat shaped sign that I think could really do a lot at street level for the place.  Virtually every other restaurant has some type of sign, but when I went, Bootsy's only had the name on the door.  If you were from out of town, you wouldn't even know what it was unless you went right up to it and looked in the door.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on May 06, 2009, 04:06:57 PM
Took a stroll through Downtown this evening and Walnut Street in between 6th and 7th was nearly impassible with all the people using valet for Bootsy's, Jeff Ruby's Steakhouse and Nicholson's.  The new streetscaping there looked nice with the lights now turned.

As I made my way south live Latin music filled the air.  It was coming from the plaza in front of Nada where there was a massive gathering of people (hundreds...body to body) dancing, drinking and socializing.  Cadillac Ranch across the street was also crowded.

I then worked my way over to Fountain Square where more live Latin music filled the air and a hundred or so people were Salsa dancing on the Square.  Hundreds more stood around watching the others while also enjoying some adult beverages.

Downtown = Amazing

Does Bootsy's have any signage up yet? The rendering showed a large top hat shaped sign that I think could really do a lot at street level for the place.  Virtually every other restaurant has some type of sign, but when I went, Bootsy's only had the name on the door.  If you were from out of town, you wouldn't even know what it was unless you went right up to it and looked in the door.

Just went past yesterday and I saw a sign on the front.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on May 06, 2009, 05:52:56 PM
Does Bootsy's have any signage up yet? The rendering showed a large top hat shaped sign that I think could really do a lot at street level for the place.

I was actually relieved when I saw that the "hat sign" didn't make it off the drawing board.  Gawdy!!!  But then, I guess it is Bootsy Collins' restaurant after all...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on May 06, 2009, 09:22:15 PM
Yes it had potential to be gawdy, but it needs some sort of signage.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on May 06, 2009, 09:23:49 PM
it does have signage, hanging off the 2nd floor outdoor balcony. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on May 06, 2009, 09:27:52 PM
Perhaps that's new? I haven't been by it since December.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on May 06, 2009, 09:31:25 PM
Perhaps that's new? I haven't been by it since December.

Not sure how new it is.  I think its been there for a month or two.  Can't say for sure.  They do need better signage though, as you walk along Walnut between 6th and 7th on the west side of the street.  You can see the sign from the Aronoff, but you definitely can't see it on the west side.  I saw a big sign tonight hanging from bootsy's saying 'Now Open for Lunch.' 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oneglove on May 06, 2009, 09:34:35 PM
Even with limited signage, I'm not really sure you can miss it...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on May 06, 2009, 09:35:58 PM
^this is true. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: diaspora on May 07, 2009, 11:28:44 AM
Downtown = Amazing

This can't be true, the other day i mentioned to my coworkers that i thought downtown was doing well and they told me that it's a ghost town.  Now, i'm certain that i've spent more time downtown in the last year or so than they have, but they insisted that it's a shell of it's former self compared to when they were growing up.

I can't speak to that, I've only been in this city two years, but i've been impressed with downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on May 07, 2009, 11:42:01 AM
Downtown = Amazing

This can't be true, the other day i mentioned to my coworkers that i thought downtown was doing well and they told me that it's a ghost town.  Now, i'm certain that i've spent more time downtown in the last year or so than they have, but they insisted that it's a shell of it's former self compared to when they were growing up.

I can't speak to that, I've only been in this city two years, but i've been impressed with downtown.

Downtown has gone through some good and bad changes.  Downtown used to be the shopping destination of the area, and there used to be movie theaters.  I remember coming downtown frequently as a child in the 80s.  There were several department stores.  I can't speak for the nightlife because I was too young to know.  Now, most of the shopping has shifted to the suburbs.  I do remember many downtown restaurants in the 90s shifting to lunch only hours, and several stores closed.  Now, more and more places have opened in the past few years, and I am never bored downtown. 

Many people in this area are constantly comparing downtown to how it was years ago.  Because it is different, they seem to assume that it is bad.  Downtown will not be the same downtown it was 20+ years ago (and it shouldn't be), just like their suburb is probably not the same as it was 20 years ago.  I have also noticed that people who say there is nothing to do downtown are the same ones who either never come downtown, or they are downtown workers who get out of town as quickly as possible at 5 PM.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on May 07, 2009, 11:55:41 AM
^Very true!!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: diaspora on May 07, 2009, 12:03:11 PM

Downtown has gone through some good and bad changes.  Downtown used to be the shopping destination of the area, and there used to be movie theaters.  I remember coming downtown frequently as a child in the 80s.  There were several department stores.  I can't speak for the nightlife because I was too young to know.  Now, most of the shopping has shifted to the suburbs.  I do remember many downtown restaurants in the 90s shifting to lunch only hours, and several stores closed.  Now, more and more places have opened in the past few years, and I am never bored downtown. 

Many people in this area are constantly comparing downtown to how it was years ago.  Because it is different, they seem to assume that it is bad.  Downtown will not be the same downtown it was 20+ years ago (and it shouldn't be), just like their suburb is probably not the same as it was 20 years ago.  I have also noticed that people who say there is nothing to do downtown are the same ones who either never come downtown, or they are downtown workers who get out of town as quickly as possible at 5 PM.
Yeah, i'd agree with all of this and it's not something unique to this area.  Growing up in Detroit people were always comparing the downtown to what it was in the 50's.  Well, times changed.  And now, Downtown Detroit is a pretty great (and safe) place, but you wouldn't know it to talk to the people that live in the exurbs.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 07, 2009, 12:08:02 PM
The olden days are always looked back on with admiration as being better.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seicer on May 14, 2009, 09:52:28 AM
Downtown's image improving: survey (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090514/BIZ01/305140033/1055/NEWS/Downtown+s+image+improving++survey)
By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn, Cincinnati Enquirer, May 14, 2009

DOWNTOWN - Preliminary results from a perception survey offered by Downtown Cincinnati Inc. reveal that more people are considering downtown for dining, shopping and entertainment than they did a year ago.

DCI, a private non-profit service organization created to promote downtown, finished the online survey May 3.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 14, 2009, 05:31:37 PM
Downtown Cincinnati Inc. reports continued progress

Downtown Cincinnati Inc. CEO David Ginsburg said today the downtown advocacy group could consider expanding its work.  Similar groups across the country envy DCI’s laser focus on keeping downtown Cincinnati clean and safe, he stressed. But, he said, the group could do more to advocate for the city’s core.

“We’re being asked to get involved in more and more issues, and we’re greatly valued as a data resource,” he said after his keynote address at the group’s annual meeting.  Ginsburg stressed that he’s not pushing for DCI to broaden its focus too much. But, he said, the group could decide to enhance its research efforts to help further economic development work downtown.

During his remarks, Ginsburg said initial results from DCI’s annual Perceptions Survey show opinions of downtown are “very positive and continue to improve.” He said 794 area residents completed the survey this year as compared to 688 last year.  Residents see downtown as “fun, genuine and unique,” he said, and more people consider downtown for dining, shopping and entertainment that they did a year ago.

Read full article here:
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/05/11/daily47.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/05/11/daily47.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 14, 2009, 08:22:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYOvTUgLZ_8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYOvTUgLZ_8)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 15, 2009, 07:49:39 AM
that made me think of

"...looks like a scooby doo ghost town"
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 18, 2009, 01:13:57 PM
Ginsburg: Prepared for challenges, Downtown improves against benchmarks
http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/05/ginsburg-prepared-for-challenges.html (http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/05/ginsburg-prepared-for-challenges.html)

Downtown Cincinnati Inc. (DCI) needs to continue "to provide core services with excellence," president and CEO David Ginsburg said during his keynote address at the non-profit's annual meeting last Thursday at The Cincinnati Club.

Saying that these are challenging times for Downtown, the City, the region, the nation, and the world, Ginsburg said that the organization is well-positioned to handle them.

"We are especially fortunate at Downtown Cincinnati Inc. to have a legacy of great leadership, passion, engagement and support from all of our public and private partners," he said.

Much of this can be attributed to the re-invigoration of new blood into DCI – almost everyone in attendance was not part of the organization when it was founded in 1994.

"Which means that we're engaging more people," Ginsburg says. "We're becoming more diverse. We're taking advantage of some of the wonderful gifts that we have at our reach."

Reports released
The meeting was an opportunity for DCI to deliver its 2008 Annual Report (PDF) (http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/DCI_Annual_Report_2008.pdf), highlighting its safe and clean services, communications and marketing, and stakeholder services; and its fifth consecutive State of Downtown report, highlighting the neighborhood's progress against several economic and quality-of-life benchmarks.

Key highlights of the reports, which also encompass the "CBD periphery" neighborhoods and sub-areas of Over-the-Rhine, Pendleton, City West, Betts-Longworth, Adams Landing, and Riverside Drive, include:


Constantly measuring against peers
Ginsburg spent much of his keynote address speaking about how DCI constantly measures Downtown's performance against its peers.

In January, Ginsburg says that he and 13 of his colleagues met informally in Tampa to discuss downtowns and the economic crisis, and came away with four important findings that will shape the work that DCI does in the next few years:


"It's exciting to approach these challenges of the future with a board, staff, partners and friends like the family of Downtown Cincinnati Inc.," Ginsburg said.

City, county take notice
Representatives of City and county government have taken notice of DCI's positive momentum.

Hamilton County Commission president David Pepper made special note of a thirty-second television sport produced as part of the two-year, $1 million Life Happens Here Enhanced Marketing Program, saying that almost everything in the commercial is new.

"When you see that video and you realize just how many great things have happened," he said. "You see that video, you hear about all the activity…it really is amazing how different things feel downtown, how much life there is, all the new restaurants."

Coming back from a Reds game last year, Pepper was amazed to see Fountain Square packed with families watching The Karate Kid.

"Who would've thought that?" he said. "Five or six years ago, if you had told somebody that was going to happen, they wouldn't have believed you."

Cincinnati City Councilmember Roxanne Qualls said that demand for Downtown living was ramping up before the current economic downturn, and she fully expects for it to boom when the market recovers.

"I anticipate that, once we come out of this downturn, we will see a pent-up demand that will be both exciting and exhilarating, and also something that will confirm the faith that we've all had in the core city and downtown Cincinnati," she said.

Preliminary perceptions results in
Ginsburg also took the opportunity to share preliminary results from this year's Downtown Perceptions Survey.
"If you don't do perceptions, it almost doesn't matter what the reality is," Ginsburg said.

A total of 794 people took part in this year's survey, compared to 688 last year, with respondents generally finding Downtown "fun, genuine, and unique".

More people also consider Downtown for dining, shopping, and entertainment than they did a year ago.

"As a result, more people are visiting Downtown, those who visit are visiting more," Ginsburg said. "They're staying longer, and they're spending more."

Full survey results will be released later this month.

New board members elected
Nine members were elected to the DCI board: Deborah Dent, president and founder, Willow Creative Group; David Eshman, partner, Deloitte & Touche, LLP; Sallie Hilvers, chief administrative officer, Metro; Gwen Robinson, president and CEO, Community Action Agency; Brian Ross, chief operating officer, Cincinnati Bell, Inc.; Kevin Shibley, general manager, Saks Fifth Avenue; Jim Sluzewski, vice president, corporate communications and external affairs, Macy’s Inc.; Stephen Taylor, district manager and vice president, US Bank; Stanford T. Williams, Jr., vice president, economic inclusion, Messer Construction.

Downtown SID up for renewal
A petition to extend the DCID services plan through 2013 has been submitted to City council for approval.

The four-year plan and budget (PDF) (http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/2010-2013_Services_Plan.pdf) has attained more than the required 60 percent of the property owners with front footage along any real property subject to the special assessment.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 19, 2009, 07:10:07 AM
Downtown Cincinnati experiencing steady population growth and stable selling prices
http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0519downtownres.aspx (http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0519downtownres.aspx)

During a time when residential markets are crashing and home buyers are wary to make a significant investment in home-buying, downtown Cincinnati is experiencing not only steady population growth, but also a stable housing market.

Downtown Cincinnati Inc. released their 2008 study that illustrates stable numbers of home sales and consistent home prices. In 2008, 150 condo and single-family homes were sold in downtown Cincinnati for an average price of $241,516 for condominiums and $172,551 for single-family homes.

These numbers illustrate that downtown is maintaining value in its housing stock while also adding additional housing units to the market.  In 2008 downtown Cincinnati added an additional 147 housing units in the form of both condominiums and single-family dwellings.

This maintenance of value in such a tough market is a positive sign for future residential growth in downtown Cincinnati.  There are presently 5,583 total residential units in the downtown area, with an additional 3,642 units either under construction or proposed.

The number of new units added in 2008 is a slightly lower than in previous years and is the one indication that the market downtown has slowed down a bit.  Over the previous three years, the downtown area was adding an average of 192 new residential units per year with an average of 185 sales.

One of the strongest sub-markets within the downtown area is the Gateway Quarter in historic Over-the-Rhine.  That southern-most portion of Over-the-Rhine accounted for roughly one-fifth of the overall sales for the downtown area in 2008.  Duncanson Lofts, which is located in the Gateway Quarter, is the building that saw the most activity in 2008 recorded 12 total sales.  Within the Central Business District, 353 W. Fifth registered 10 sales in 2008 making it the most active in that district.

The growing number of people living downtown is also a positive sign for future service retail in the area.  There are presently an estimated 8,375 people living in the downtown area in 2008; a number that is expected to grow to 13,838 in three short years.

Downtown has long been trying to attract a full-service grocery store. As the number of people living downtown continues to grow the market becomes more attractive for food retail.  Of the retail presently downtown only 9 percent is considered to be personal service while another 42 percent constitutes shopping with 49 percent including dining.

Over time, if the city core is to realize its goal of a  24/7 downtown, then residential dwelling sales will need to continue to grow so that service establishments are warranted.

(http://www.soapboxmedia.com/images/Development%20News%20Photos/Issue%2066/Downtown-Residential-Data-350.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on May 19, 2009, 07:33:39 AM
^ What is included in the "downtown area?"  Does this go slightly beyond the CBD boundaries? 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: rekxu83 on May 19, 2009, 07:42:24 AM
Randy, are those your charts? I'm curious as to where the 13,838 projection came from. I think that's great news, but downtown has only been adding a few hundred each year previously, so going up by 5,000 in 3 years seems a bit steep.

I hope it happens.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 19, 2009, 11:51:11 PM
The article I wrote was based on the data presented in the 2008 State of Downtown Report that was just recently released.  The methodology and everything of that nature is explained in the report...I was just summarizing that information in a nice neat package for everyone's viewing pleasure.  The charts also come directly from the report.

Download the full report here:
http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/State_of_Downtown_2008.pdf (http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/State_of_Downtown_2008.pdf)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 19, 2009, 11:52:09 PM
I'm curious as to where the 13,838 projection came from. I think that's great news, but downtown has only been adding a few hundred each year previously, so going up by 5,000 in 3 years seems a bit steep.

You should consider that the first phase of The Banks will be occupied within three years...that will cause a giant jump.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 09, 2009, 04:23:09 PM
Barnes Dennig moving to Fourth and Main

Barnes Dennig & Co., a downtown Cincinnati accounting and consulting firm, is leaving the Carew Tower after 44 years.  The business is vacating three floors in the Vine Street landmark overlooking Fountain Square and relocating to larger quarters on a single floor of the Federal Reserve Building at Fourth and Main streets.

The firm is one of the largest tenants in the Carew Tower, behind Kendle International Inc. and the law firm Wood Herron & Evans LLP, spokesman Chris Perrino said. Wood Herron has been in the Art Deco complex since it was built in 1930.

Being on a single floor at the Federal Reserve Building will facilitate better internal communications and collaboration for Barnes Dennig’s client service teams, Perrino said. It will occupy 28,000 square feet that became available as a result of reduced operations by the Federal Reserve Bank. It will make the move in mid-July.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/06/08/daily28.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/06/08/daily28.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on June 10, 2009, 07:40:44 AM
Quote
The firm decided to stay downtown in response to an employee survey that singled out downtown as the most convenient location based on where its clients are and where employees live.

It's nice to see that some businesses and people still get it.  :)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: BallHatGuy on June 10, 2009, 08:07:02 AM
^ Ditto that!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 21, 2009, 11:31:04 AM
Downtown Cincinnati improvement district approved for 2010-2013
http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/06/downtown-cincinnati-improvement.html (http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/06/downtown-cincinnati-improvement.html)

Cincinnati City Council has approved special assessments called for in the 2010-2013 Downtown Cincinnati Improvement District plan and budget.

Beginning in January 2010, property owners will pay the additional assessment along with their real property taxes in eight semi-annual installments.

The assessment is expected to generate for DCI $2.25 million annually in 2010-2011 and $2.39 million annually in 2012-2013.

The council resolution says that the improvement district will improve Downtown's cleanliness and safety, help recruit and retain Downtown businesses, and lead to the development of more Downtown residential units.

A petition signed by owners of more than 60 percent of the district's street frontage was accepted by council late last month.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on June 30, 2009, 05:27:29 PM
Survey: Downtown Cincinnati perceptions improve

The rejuvenated Fountain Square has helped improve local perceptions of downtown, Downtown Cincinnati Inc. said Tuesday.  The nonprofit organization released results of its 2009 Downtown Perceptions Survey Tuesday. The online survey was completed by 794 people between April 17 and May 6, DCI said in a news release.

Highlights of the survey include:

Read full article here:
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/06/29/daily16.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/06/29/daily16.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Living in Gin on June 30, 2009, 05:33:06 PM
I was in downtown Cincinnati at around 9 PM on a Sunday night last week, and I had to drive around a while before I finally found a place to park on the street. I was actually getting a little frustrated, until I realized that ten years ago, the place would've been a ghost town at that time and I would've been able to park anywhere.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: DanB on June 30, 2009, 05:42:17 PM
All the preaching about public transportation, and you choose to drive!  Why should the rest of us support it if the vocal supporters drive downtown?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Living in Gin on June 30, 2009, 05:52:30 PM
Oh, shut up. I ride the NYC subway almost everyday to and from work.

When Cincinnati builds a viable public transit system, I'll be the first in line to ride it, too.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Blue Line on July 01, 2009, 11:45:25 PM
Even though he sounded like an ass with that last comment, I do agree with DanB to an extent.  The great proponents of public transit in Cincinnati should be doing everything they can to embrace and support it.  It shouldn't matter that it's not in the most preferable state right now.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: diaspora on July 02, 2009, 09:45:23 AM
Supporters like myself would love to take public transit, but the system as it is right now is not set up in such a way that it's feasible.  I have taken the bus, but my job requires me to be able to drive to various locations sometime.  And my wife works in various offices and sometimes we carpool when she's working near my office.  will a better transit system (including rail) help me solve all those issues? no, probably not. But i still think it's best for the region.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on July 30, 2009, 02:14:00 PM
Magazine Names Cincinnati Among Nation's Best Cities
http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Magazine-Names-Cincinnati-Among-Nations-Best/W63M1zYT3U6UAzFe1uQNkA.cspx (http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Magazine-Names-Cincinnati-Among-Nations-Best/W63M1zYT3U6UAzFe1uQNkA.cspx)

(www.cincinnati-oh.gov (http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov)) The city of Cincinnati is getting national recognition, named as one of America's Best Cities by Outside Magazine. The editors put Cincinnati at #9 on their list, citing a low cost of living and "resilient and well-balanced blend of industries (everything from aerospace to advertising)".

One of the former Outside staff members is now the editor in chief of Cincinnati Magazine. He sings the city's praises, saying our downtown is "very urban and completely walkable," and the city is home to green spaces, parks, and lush hillsides.

The magazine praises the push for a downtown Cincinnati streetcar line, a downtown bike-commuter complex, and the work done on the riverfront development known as the Banks. The article also mentions unique architecture, a plethora of independent restaurants, and the Oktoberfest celebration.

Outside Magazine puts Colorado Springs at number one on it's list.  Other cities mentioned in the top ten include Charlotte, Portland, Atlanta, and Boston. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: C-Dawg on July 30, 2009, 03:16:00 PM
^It's all about job market. Cincinnati is depression-proof. I may end up there myself as this continues, but only if I get insanely cheap rent in OTR.

And Cincinnati has the money to push most of its current projects to completion, something that won't happen in a lot of other cities.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 30, 2009, 10:03:02 PM
If you want to live in a dump, you can live in OTR for under $500/mo.  By dump, I mean some place that hasn't been worked on in any way in 40 years, so it'll have that cheap adhesive plastic flooring, an oven with knobs missing, and some really weird dude living across the hall. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oneglove on July 30, 2009, 10:25:47 PM
or just get roommates and live in a decent place for less than that
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on July 30, 2009, 10:29:23 PM
my boyfriend lived in a great studio on Main Street for $400/month.  It felt like a big space too with how it was laid out.  Hardwood floors, newly renovated...ish.  But yes, I would live there. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on July 31, 2009, 06:27:57 AM
If you want to live in a dump, you can live in OTR for under $500/mo.  By dump, I mean some place that hasn't been worked on in any way in 40 years, so it'll have that cheap adhesive plastic flooring, an oven with knobs missing, and some really weird dude living across the hall.

Back in early 2003 I actually lived in OTR in a newly renovated two bedroom apartment with a friend and free washer/dryer for $250 a month.  Right across from the Emery.  The only thing that sucked about it was it was so close to Alchemize, which I don't think is a word.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Blue Line on July 31, 2009, 11:21:35 AM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alchemize (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alchemize)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: sfbob on July 31, 2009, 12:04:10 PM
Now I really know these lists are hogwash at best. Not knocking Cincy but I lived in Colorado Springs for 18 long years. And while parts of it are nice, and the view of Pikes Peak is fine, the Springs is a complete DUD of a town. Manitou Springs which some would consider the Springs if you didn't live there is much nicer and has some character but the Springs has almost zero charachter. No neighborhoods, No culture (outside of some "Western Art") Almost nothing to do. I can't believe the article mentions local restaurants because there are none worth mentioning. Most of the Springs restaurants are of the "Chain" variety. Very little diversity to be found anywhere and don't even talk about the "backwards" mentality of the vast majority of the locals. Visiting the Springs can be very deceiving. Looks nice, walk around some of what looks a litte quaint town, but look under the hood and stay a while because you will see how much this place sucks. If a little scenery, some outdoor activity and you don't mind the massive amount of Evangelical Christian groups that are based there, then you will love the Springs but that is all this place has.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on July 31, 2009, 11:19:17 PM
Between Final Friday, the event going on in the Gateway Quarter, the Reds game and fireworks, the Macys Music Festival, and the concert on Fountain Square, downtown was absolutely SLAMMED tonight. I was with a friend and his girlfriend who is from Cleveland and she kept saying "wow, Cincinnati has so much going on, I think it's definitely cooler than Cleveland!".

Music to my ears...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: unusualfire on July 31, 2009, 11:54:17 PM
The Reds SUCK. At least that's the state of the Reds downtown .;)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 31, 2009, 11:57:43 PM
Yeah, downtown was ridiculous tonight.  The final friday stuff in the Gateway looked pretty well attended, but still has nothing on the Columbus final friday. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: C-Dawg on August 01, 2009, 12:04:35 PM
Now I really know these lists are hogwash at best. Not knocking Cincy but I lived in Colorado Springs for 18 long years. And while parts of it are nice, and the view of Pikes Peak is fine, the Springs is a complete DUD of a town. Manitou Springs which some would consider the Springs if you didn't live there is much nicer and has some character but the Springs has almost zero charachter. No neighborhoods, No culture (outside of some "Western Art") Almost nothing to do. I can't believe the article mentions local restaurants because there are none worth mentioning. Most of the Springs restaurants are of the "Chain" variety. Very little diversity to be found anywhere and don't even talk about the "backwards" mentality of the vast majority of the locals. Visiting the Springs can be very deceiving. Looks nice, walk around some of what looks a litte quaint town, but look under the hood and stay a while because you will see how much this place sucks. If a little scenery, some outdoor activity and you don't mind the massive amount of Evangelical Christian groups that are based there, then you will love the Springs but that is all this place has.

While I've never been to Colorado Springs, I enjoyed reading that rant! I bet it does lack soul, and the name sucks.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: atlas on August 01, 2009, 08:17:33 PM
Yeah, downtown was ridiculous tonight.  The final friday stuff in the Gateway looked pretty well attended, but still has nothing on the Columbus final friday. 

its called the gallery hop.  But the gallery hop is quite pretentious now-a-days.  Final Friday doesn't have that vibe.  With that said, the amount of people at a typical gallery hop makes you feel all warm inside about Columbus and the Short North.  Love it. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 04, 2009, 05:46:36 PM
Downtown improvement assessments near council vote
http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/08/downtown-improvement-assessments-near.html (http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/08/downtown-improvement-assessments-near.html)

On August 5, Cincinnati city council will consider two ordinances to help keep Downtown safe and clean from 2010 to 2013.

A first ordinance would accept the Downtown Cincinnati Improvement District (DCID) Board of Equalization's findings of estimated assessments for Downtown property owners, finalized at its meeting on July 13.

A second ordinance would impose those findings, making the assessments enforceable by law.

Assessments will be payable with Hamilton County property tax bills, in eight semi-annual installments.

The DCID is expected to generate $2.25 million annually in 2010-2011 and $2.39 million annually in 2012-2013, and will be used to improve Downtown's cleanliness and safety, to help recruit and retain Downtown businesses, and to lead to the development of more Downtown residential units.

Property owners have until September 14 to appeal the assessments with the county auditor's office.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 09, 2009, 07:15:06 PM
Musical chairs? We need new tune
Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Doug Bolton

Like many people watching downtown Cincinnati’s office market, I’m happy for law firm Frost Brown Todd and its recent decision to relocate 300 employees in 2011 three blocks from PNC Center to the under-construction Great American Tower at Queen City Square.

“I think the Frost Brown Todd deal shows that there still is a market for ‘glass and glitter’ trophy space,” said Shawn Gilreath of Cincinnati’s CresaPartners, which represents tenants looking for new space.

But I have a challenge to Western & Southern Financial Group CEO John Barrett, who marvelously brought to fruition at the end of last year a 20-year vision for the block at Sycamore and Third streets. The challenge extends to any other company located downtown considering moving to the remaining seven floors and 175,000 square feet of space available in what will be the city’s tallest building: Don’t do it.

Read full article here:
http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/08/10/editorial1.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/08/10/editorial1.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on August 10, 2009, 07:45:50 AM
You can find pretty much this same article every time a new building gets erected downtown and tenants move within the core, the articles are almost identical word-for-word.  It would obviously be nice if all the tenants came from outside downtown or the region, but come on this is typical Cincinnati journalism.  We are getting our largest office building ever downtown and someone has to put a negative spin on it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Living in Gin on August 10, 2009, 08:25:06 AM
My own employer is apparently looking to relocate, and we'll be in the market for about 20,000 square feet of affordable office space. Unfortunately, my efforts to convince the partners to relocate the firm from Midtown Manhattan to downtown Cincinnati have been unsuccessful so far. :)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 12, 2009, 07:05:44 PM
You can find pretty much this same article every time a new building gets erected downtown and tenants move within the core, the articles are almost identical word-for-word.  It would obviously be nice if all the tenants came from outside downtown or the region, but come on this is typical Cincinnati journalism.  We are getting our largest office building ever downtown and someone has to put a negative spin on it.

I have met and spoken with Douglas Bolton several times and I get the feeling that he is very pro-city.  I think this editorial piece from him is more of a challenge for the companies here in Cincinnati to start putting forth more of an effort.

Eagle Realty is owned by Western & Southern...they built this new tower as a prize project for the firm and have seemingly settled for other members of the good ol' boys network in Cincinnati to fill the space (sans Frost Brown Todd).  When I interviewed the VP from Eagle Realty a couple of weeks ago I didn't get a direct answer about how aggressively they were pursuing companies from outside the region (read into that what you want).

So far everyone involved with this project has come out smelling like roses, but the real task of filling the additional net space put on the center city office market has been externalized to other companies who won't get nearly the amount of positive press that Eagle/W&S/Great American have gotten.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 12, 2009, 07:55:21 PM
Brandt Retail Group opening downtown office, creating urban focus
http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0811brandtretail.aspx (http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0811brandtretail.aspx)

Cincinnati-based Brandt Retail Group sees an opportunity in the urban retail market and intends to open a new downtown office led by urban specialist Kathleen Norris. Norris is responsible for the wildly successful Gateway Quarter shopping district that has evolved over the past couple of years, and is credited with bringing more than 20 new businesses to Over-the-Rhine.

Norris will be joined by research director of the urban division, Doug Brandt who is the son of Brandt CEO Steve Brandt.  Doug says that he intends to work hard to make downtown Cincinnati a "hip, unique place," and that he is driven by the desire to make the city appealing to tomorrow’s leaders.

The new urban focus for Brandt Retail Group is a unique change in direction for the company that has specialized in suburban shopping centers for 30 years representing the likes of IKEA, Target, Home Depot, Trader Joe's and Costco.

"Downtown Cincinnati is the heart of this region.  It deserves a bold urban vision, and both within this area and beyond there are neighborhoods, cities and town where Main Street retail is a crucial economic engine – an engine that we know how to fine-tune," says Steve Brandt.

The goal will to be fill empty storefronts and create a market strategy for the center city.  "Cincinnati has a particularly nice downtown.  It’s clean, safe, walkable and it has wonderful amenities," says Norris.  "What it lacks is a retail focus to create unique and interesting experiences and distinct opportunities."

So far the firm has identified roughly 200,000 square feet of available retail space that they hope to match with appropriate retailers that can activate those storefronts and energize the streetscape.  Long-term the retail group would like to assist in developing retail strategies for more than just Downtown, but also other nearby retail clusters and eventually even other cities in the region.

While Downtown has experienced tremendous success over recent years a retail strategy has not yet been developed.  Norris sees this as one of their best opportunities to leveraging the existing success Downtown and in Over-the-Rhine.

"There is a strong re-urbanization movement underway in this country now, and Cincinnati has a chance to be at the forefront.  We have a wonderful downtown and an utterly unique asset in Over-the-Rhine.  That's beginning to be recognized, but untapped potential still exists," says Norris.

As the new urban division of Brandt Retail Group gets settled in to their Downtown offices, they will also be looking to engage the area's stakeholders and come up with that comprehensive retailing strategy for the downtown area.  Steve Brandt says that the division first needs to figure out what people want Downtown to be, and how they can help make that happen.

For that Norris hopes to get input from the community and encourages everyone to share their thoughts with her at Kathleen@BrandtRetailGroup.com.  "I think a thriving Downtown is a significant economic generator.  I’ll help as best I can with some retail recruitment, but this is a team effort."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on August 12, 2009, 08:28:50 PM
Your point stands, but Frost Brown Todd (which is really the old Frost Jacobs) is an essential part of Cincinnati's old boy network.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on August 13, 2009, 12:40:24 AM
^^ I'm liking what I'm reading!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on August 13, 2009, 11:25:09 AM
I would also argue that it is not a private landlord's job to attract companies from outside the region (but they will take tenants wherever they can get them), that is what the Chamber of Commerce, other organizations and city economic development agencies are for and why most companies are members of those organizations and support their activities.  While QCS may be a prize project, they built it to make money pure and simple and there is nothing wrong with that. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on August 13, 2009, 11:47:33 AM
And to cap off the career of Uncle Carl.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on August 18, 2009, 09:32:54 PM
Advantage IQ to expand downtown Cincinnati presence 40%
http://www.urbancincy.com/2009/08/advantage-iq-to-expand-downtown.html (http://www.urbancincy.com/2009/08/advantage-iq-to-expand-downtown.html)

The City of Cincinnati’s Economic Development Department is reporting that Advantage IQ will be expanding their Downtown presence over the next three years by 40 percent.

The company currently has its offices in The Center at 600 Vine and will add the additional capacity there where it already employs 75 people. Advantage IQ is headquartered out of Spokane, Washington and provides expense management services for multi-site businesses.

The expansion was made possible by a job creation tax credit from the City of Cincinnati and the Ohio Department of Development. City officials say that a $1.1 million return is expected for the City in terms of the revenues generated from the new and retained jobs.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on September 29, 2009, 10:06:55 PM
Lots of fantastic photos with article link...

The New Heart of Downtown: Redirecting the Flow to Fountain Square
http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/0929fountainsquare.aspx (http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/0929fountainsquare.aspx)
By Jonathan DeHart | Soapbox Cincinnati, September 29, 2009

To thrive, a city needs a healthy heart.  Thankfully, Cincinnati has one: Fountain Square.

"It's been a rallying point for everybody, no matter where they live," says Conrad Thiede, Communications Committee Chair of the Downtown Residents' Council.  "It's where the whole neighborhood comes together."

Each stroll through Fountain Square transports visitors on a new experience.  During the warm months, Cincinnati gets its Latin fix with salsa nights on Thursday.  Saturday afternoon is Family Day, followed by a movie at night.  Bands from the homegrown MidPoint Music Festival rock the city on Friday nights, while the soothing sounds of Gospel and Jazz provide the soundtrack for the new story playing out downtown on Sunday.

"My TV isn't on," Thiede says.  "Downtowners probably watch a lot less TV.  They're out and the first place they're going to stop is Fountain Square.  That's where we go."

Impressed by the offerings, keen residents regularly head to the Square and provide the feedback loop needed to keep the events relevant.  To be exact, 200,000 visitors have shown up for events so far in 2009.

Yet, ten years ago, this wasn't the case.  It's taken a real, street level transformation to shake things up in the Square.

Using Portland, Oregon's Pioneer Courthouse Square as a model, a group of visionary community leaders created this vibrant public space over the course of a decade.  And their work paid off.  Today the Square pulsates with the energy of a new city. 

When asked about the impetus for this turnaround, Bill Donabedian, Managing Director of Fountain Square Management Group, insists that clever ad campaigns would not have had the same effect.

"People wouldn't have believed it," he says.  "It would have just been advertising."

But now there are believers in Cincinnati's midst.

Donabedian attributes the Square's turnaround to positive momentum from increasingly popular events, word of mouth, and an improved image in the media.  Some front page stories appeared, a slew of new bars and restaurants set up shop, and people ventured downtown to check things out for themselves.  The tides have gradually changed ever since.

Donabedian explains that even the "weird, oddball" events like the fish toss or turkey bowl "get a lot of buzz" when people take pictures and videos and post them online.  The speed of the internet has had other implications for the nature of the events in the Square.

"The neat thing that is starting to happen is we're doing events without much lead time or advertising, and they're well attended," Donabedian explains.

A perfect example was THE Cincinnati Beer Festival, held recently in Fountain Square.

A mere six weeks ago the 3CDC crew decided to throw this bash, which proved to be one of the Square's biggest events to date.They rounded up 38 brands and over 180 varieties of beer.  Even without much in the way of preparation time or advertising, over 8,000 showed up for this six hour event.

"It was packed," Donabedian says.

So packed, in fact, that the Bengal Bash, Reds Game and nearby Oktoberfest in Northern Kentucky - all happening the same day - did not deter revelers.

"A lot of it is keeping your eyes and ears open.  It was my distributor who suggested a beer fest," Donabedian laughs.

And this is just the beginning.  Donabedian sees expanding the beer fest event to include a conference and collaboration with restaurants around the Square, of which there are many.  Via Vite, Nada, Bootsy's, The Righteous Room, and Mynt Ultra Lounge, set to open next month, to name several.

These darlings of the restaurant scene create a synergy with the programmed events.  This collaboration injects a much needed resilience into the city's economy during these tough economic times.

"Even in an economic downtown, we're not seeing it like other regions, as far as businesses and restaurants," Thiede says.  "Would all those restaurants be so successful if Fountain Square didn't have the programming?  I don't think so." 

Alas, the fun in the Square comes with a privately funded price tag.  This is the nature of non-tax funded public spaces and events.

"The corporate community and the people who come to these events can't take it for granted," Donabedian says.  "If they stop participating in this, it will die."

However, there are huge incentives for corporate sponsors to support the Square. Donabedian describes their efforts as "double dipping:" marketing for the company and doing a service for the city. These good deeds pay off in dividends.  With an exciting city center, Casey Gilmore, Sponsorship Manager at 3CDC, says that she has found most new transplants to Cincinnati to be very satisfied with the quality of life they find here.

"And they're usually coming from bigger cities," she says.

One example is the recent exodus of Gillette employees from Boston to Cincinnati.   

"They've made an educated decision to move and live where they live," Thiede says.  "They want to live in an environment that's faster paced, eclectic, not cookie cutter."

And families are making the residential jump to downtown as well.  Margo and Doug Joseph made the move to Downtown Cincinnati from Michigan with their two daughters.

"My family loves Fountain Square,” says Margo Joseph.  "We go at least three times a week, sometimes more.  It is nice to see so many more people and families enjoying the square since its renovation. The events and layout make it so much more inviting."

Fountain Square's transformation is a significant indicator of the overall health of the city.  It positions Cincinnati in an enviable position in the region and attracts guests. 

Ultimately, the revitalization of Fountain Square is "part of a much bigger plan," Donabedian says.  "We're trying to get people to live down here.  Cities that are active and alive and well lit and safe and clean and livable and vibrant - people want to live and stay."

And stay they are.  Numbers tell the story best.

According to official data, the downtown population, including the Central Business District (CBD) and the greater CBD area, has essentially doubled in the last ten years. With this kind of progress, it's official.  Downtown is blossoming.

There's a growing community of downtown residents, a corporate community and non-profit sector supporting an exciting array of events in the Square, and a city government with the vision to push Cincinnati further into the regional lime light.  And Fountain Square is at the center of it all.

"Let's celebrate that we have a focal point called Fountain Square," Thiede says.  "Success breeds success.  I think that if people would embrace the success going on downtown, there could be some hope for success in other areas."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on September 29, 2009, 10:07:41 PM
Fountain Square (http://vimeo.com/6803517)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 30, 2009, 11:15:50 AM
Plante & Moran moves to riverfront
Business Courier of Cincinnati



Plante & Moran, formerly Jackson, Rolfes, Spurgeon & Co., is moving to offices on Pete Rose Way downtown, the accounting firm said.

The 24,000-square-foot space, on the second floor of the Midland Building, is more than 10,000 square feet larger than Plante & Moran’s current home on Florence Avenue in Walnut Hills.



http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/09/28/daily29.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/09/28/daily29.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on October 02, 2009, 11:16:57 PM
Special Downtown assessments approved
http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/09/special-downtown-assessments-approved.html (http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/09/special-downtown-assessments-approved.html)

The Downtown Cincinnati Improvement District Services Plan for 2010-2013 is now law, thanks to two ordinances passed unanimously by City Council earlier this month.

The two ordinances provide the mechanism for special tax assessments to Downtown property owners –expected to generate $2.25 million annually in 2010-2011 and $2.39 million annually in 2012-2013 – which will be used to improve Downtown's cleanliness and safety, to help recruit and retain Downtown businesses, and to lead to the development of more Downtown residential units.

The assessments will be payable with Hamilton County property tax bills, in eight semi-annual installments.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on October 06, 2009, 11:23:51 AM
Downtown Cincinnati hotel market strongest in region
http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/1006downtownhotels.aspx (http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/1006downtownhotels.aspx)
By Randy A. Simes | Soapbox Cincinnati, October 6, 2009

Like most urban cores, downtown Cincinnati boasts a large collection of hotels catering to tourists, business travelers, conventioneers and more.  Downtown counts three Four Diamond Award winning hotels - Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza, The Cincinnatian Hotel, The Westin Cincinnati - among its affordable offerings.

Recently, the downtown hotel market has experienced a surge of interest (http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0929metropolehotel.aspx) for a new boutique hotel, raising the question: does it makes good economic sense to develop a new hotel, or will a surplus of available rooms simply canibalize other existing accomodations? The numbers make the case that things are looking up.

According to Downtown Cincinnati Inc. (DCI), in 2008, downtown Cincinnati compared favorably with the rest of the metropolitan region with a 55 percent occupancy rate, while the three state region that comprises Greater Cincinnati/Hamilton County and Cincinnati USA logged 54.5 and 54.7 percent occupancy rates respectively.  The higher occupancy rate downtown was coupled with a slightly higher rate per night and revenue per available room as well.

Downtown's largest gains have been seen in room rates - the average room rate in Downtown Cincinnati is now $123.49 compared to $89.72 in 2008.  Comparatively, room rates in the rest of the region have remained somewhat stagnant.

While some of downtown's success was predicted with large conventions booked years in advance, higher than expected room night consumption by some of those conventions have helped raise the numbers tremendously according to DCI.

Most recently, the Garfield Suites Hotel sold out all of its rooms during the three-day Midpoint Music Festival that took place throughout Downtown and Over-the-Rhine.

"This was our first time partnering with Midpoint, but we had pretty high expectations going in, and it delivered for us," said Gary Wachs, general manager.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on November 13, 2009, 10:09:46 AM
Jan-July 2009 State of Downtown: http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/January_June_2009_SOD_Report.pdf (http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/January_June_2009_SOD_Report.pdf)

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seicer on November 14, 2009, 06:39:59 PM
Interesting to note that downtown has one of the higher vacancy rates in the region, with the lowest being north of I-275. As for residential sales, I'll snip a bit out of the report:

"When comparing the first half of 2009 to the first half of last year, the number of residential sales downtown** was up in first quarter, while the average sale price was down. The second quarter showed a decrease in the number of sales, however the average sale price was on the rise."

That includes downtown, OTR and areas near that. That's good news on most fronts, and the price dips should make more units affordable.

The convention aspect looks very good and hotel occupancy rates and average prices are on the rise. The news regarding the Ambassador program is also very welcoming -- they are doing one hell of a job in increasing the perceptions of downtown and cleaning it up.

Looking over the development highlights:
617 Vine St. - Enquirer Building, has no completion date. Has Middle Earth stalled, given their tax issues? That's a lot of units (150) that would be a huge boom for downtown.

What is the status of the 166-residential unit Broadway Tower?

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 14, 2009, 07:15:47 PM
The Middle Earth tax problem was supposedly fixed and is a non issue, the Broadway Tower is on schedule to get two more parking floors for P&G, and must therefore be redesigned, I wouldn't hold my breath for any new residential new construction anytime soon.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: blackmjc on November 14, 2009, 07:53:29 PM
What is Broadway Tower?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on November 15, 2009, 08:32:51 PM
A proposed residential stack on top of a garage that was built in 2002.

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/10/26/story5.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/10/26/story5.html)

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LesterLyles on November 15, 2009, 09:29:27 PM
This developer has been working on a condo tower since '01? w/ all due respetc, I think it's ime to move on.  Since this is already a garage, I have no problems building up.  In fact, I wish there were more garages and less surface lots downtown but that is another debate.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: unusualfire on November 15, 2009, 10:31:24 PM
^They will have to build a new garage somewhere once the casino is up and going. The downtown workers that drive there has to park some where. Im sure the casino will not allow them to park in their lot. Well of course if they pay.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on December 16, 2009, 07:54:53 AM
First Financial moving HQ to Atrium One
Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Steve Watkins Staff Reporter



First Financial Bancorp will relocate its corporate headquarters to the Atrium One building downtown early next year.

First Financial will move headquarters employees from its location at the Cornerstone at Norwood because it has outgrown that space at 4000 Smith Road in Norwood, the company said in a news release.


http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/12/14/daily24.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/12/14/daily24.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LesterLyles on December 16, 2009, 09:41:37 AM
I could picture them being the acnchor tenant for the office building planned for the Banks (phase 1).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on December 16, 2009, 09:44:41 AM
That is exactly the comment I wrote on the Biz Courier's site
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on December 16, 2009, 11:02:25 AM
Yeah, but this part of the article concerns me.  It doesn't sound like downtown is necessarily part of their long range plans:

“While Cincinnati will continue to remain an important part of our overall strategy and we are excited to start expanding into downtown, our longer-term space needs will be determined over the next 12 to 24 months and will include consideration of various other locations.”
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on December 16, 2009, 11:50:01 AM
^Then Carter-Dawson better start sweet talking them
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: gfi on December 16, 2009, 11:52:49 AM
The news regarding the Ambassador program is also very welcoming -- they are doing one hell of a job in increasing the perceptions of downtown and cleaning it up.

I couldn't disagree more.  I've had a few experiences dealing with these individuals and see them regularly doing absolutely nothing.  Normally they are doing what the private sector needs to be doing for themselves.  If they are doing anything at all.  Even in the PDF you see one cleaning multiple instances of graffiti off a phone booth owned by CBT.  I bet there where three more of them standing around watching.  Why should tax money go towards this?  I often see them cleaning the paper boxes.  Corporate welfare is what it is.  Move everyone of them to Over the Rhine.  It would benefit the residence at least.  Or better yet get rid of them and have city workers do what they are supposed to do and enforce the laws on the books about property owners maintenance. 
just my opinion
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on December 16, 2009, 01:12:56 PM
The news regarding the Ambassador program is also very welcoming -- they are doing one hell of a job in increasing the perceptions of downtown and cleaning it up.

I couldn't disagree more.  I've had a few experiences dealing with these individuals and see them regularly doing absolutely nothing.  Normally they are doing what the private sector needs to be doing for themselves.  If they are doing anything at all.  Even in the PDF you see one cleaning multiple instances of graffiti off a phone booth owned by CBT.  I bet there where three more of them standing around watching.  Why should tax money go towards this?  I often see them cleaning the paper boxes.  Corporate welfare is what it is.  Move everyone of them to Over the Rhine.  It would benefit the residence at least.  Or better yet get rid of them and have city workers do what they are supposed to do and enforce the laws on the books about property owners maintenance. 
just my opinion


A Special Improvement District that is paid into by downtown property owners pays for the ambassador program
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LincolnKennedy on December 17, 2009, 09:19:39 AM
^Exactly.  I've seen one of those guys polishing the brass doorknobs of a building on 8th Street multiple times.  I'm impressed with what they do.  They are providing far more value downtown than some cop on a horse.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on December 17, 2009, 10:06:39 AM
^ I also think the ambassador program is great.  Whenever I see one, they are usually busy.  Also, they do have a contact with the police.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on December 17, 2009, 11:19:24 AM
2 of these ambassadors are friends of mine and whenever I run into them, they keep the conversation short and sweet -their supervisor must be strict.

They are always busy and doing their job.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on December 17, 2009, 11:44:05 AM
^ I also think the ambassador program is great.  Whenever I see one, they are usually busy.  Also, they do have a contact with the police.

My Dad was on crutches at the Taste of Cincinnati (or maybe Oktoberfest) and one of the Ambassadors found chair for him to sit down [on a very very crowed Ft. Sq.]
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on December 17, 2009, 12:43:40 PM
Quote
Yeah, but this part of the article concerns me.  It doesn't sound like downtown is necessarily part of their long range plans:

“While Cincinnati will continue to remain an important part of our overall strategy and we are excited to start expanding into downtown, our longer-term space needs will be determined over the next 12 to 24 months and will include consideration of various other locations.”

I don't think they would move downtown just to move out a few years later.  The article states the space they leased was "company headquarters ready", so it was an easy move for them.  My guess is they are going to test the waters downtown over the next few years as there will be rock star lease deals to be had with W&S and Frost Brown Todd moving in to QCSII.  They will be able to get unbelievable lease rates and tenant improvement deals at that point.  If they don't stay in the same space, they will be downtown somewhere.  It seems like they want to be a 'big boy" bank, and a corporate HQ in Norwood or Hamilton doesn't have the penache of a downtown high rise address.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on December 17, 2009, 01:17:20 PM
^Agreed
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on December 17, 2009, 01:51:17 PM
^^Interesting!  Does anyone know what is to happen with the Nat City building. I'm guessing it will have some vacancies.   I assume PNC will not be occupying both that and their current building. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on December 17, 2009, 03:01:13 PM
Can I nominate the Nat City/Provident Bank building for the next replacement to help the skyline? I'd say it is the ugliest of the bank hq's dt.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: gfi on December 18, 2009, 11:58:03 AM
A Special Improvement District that is paid into by downtown property owners pays for the ambassador program

I did not know this.  Excuse my ignorance.  After reading a little i've realized that the program is commendable and a good example of the private sector handling things.  I just thought they are low paid city workers.  I hope i didn't offend anyone.
   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on December 18, 2009, 11:03:17 PM
Can I nominate the Nat City/Provident Bank building for the next replacement to help the skyline? I'd say it is the ugliest of the bank hq's dt.

Agreed. It sticks out between Central Trust and Scripps like a zit on prom night.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on December 19, 2009, 10:22:58 PM
Problem with is it is that it faces 4th St., not the river.  Also, it took the site of the Sinton Hotel, which was a fantastic structure. 

(http://www.cincinnativiews.net/images/Hotel%20Sinton%201.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on February 23, 2010, 10:16:05 AM
Downtown investors giving Main Street a second look
By Randy A. Simes, Soapbox Cincinnati | February 23, 2010
http://soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0223mainstreetinvestment.aspx

Main Street is just two short blocks away from Downtown's main artery - Vine Street, and just one block away from the renaissance taking place in the Backstage Entertainment District along Walnut Street.  As a result the street boasting a comfortable building stock and some of Downtown's longest tenured businesses, is seeing new investment once again.

"When things weren't going well downtown, bad things would spread like a cancer," said Downtown Cincinnati Inc. President David Ginsburg.  "But now that things are going well the opposite is happening with the success around Fountain Square and the Backstage District."

Two of the newest businesses are Bouchard's on Main which is expanding from their popular Findlay Market location, and Lunch on Main which offers comfortable lunch offerings to the growing number of Downtown office workers.

Although not on Main Street, the Backstage District creep can be felt along 6th Street as Mr. Sushi opened this past week, and Passage Lounge continues to make progress on its location at the corner of 6th and Main that will feature downtown Cincinnati's first rooftop bar.

"It's not just how many new places are opening up on Main Street, but how well they seem to compliment the existing businesses there," said Ginsburg who also noted that the initial response to Bouchard's and Lunch on Main has been very impressive.

Main Street has more than just proximity to Fountain Square and the Backstage District going for it - it also sits right on the proposed Cincinnati Streetcar route as it heads north towards historic Over-the-Rhine and the uptown neighborhoods.  Main Street also boasts a unique collection of historic buildings and businesses that have escaped the capitalistic will of high rise developers.

Ginsburg continued, "you certainly have some wonderful buildings and businesses over on Main Street, and more economic development means more residents, more jobs, more investment and a more active Downtown."

View photos of Lunch on Main here:
http://soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0223mainstreetinvestment.aspx
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 12, 2010, 05:12:49 PM
Downtown Cincinnati experiences strong progress during recession
By Kevin Wright, UrbanCincy | May 4, 2010
http://www.urbancincy.com/2010/05/downtown-cincinnati-experiences-strong-progress-during-recession/ (http://www.urbancincy.com/2010/05/downtown-cincinnati-experiences-strong-progress-during-recession/)

If Cincinnati is our home, then downtown is akin to our city’s kitchen. Downtown is where we, as a community, watch television (Fountain Square), downtown is where we eat, and downtown is where we complete our financial transactions. This is the analogy Mayor Mark Mallory used at the 2010 State of Downtown meeting held this past Thursday, April 29th.

Mayor Mallory also likened downtown to an engine that is “hot and running well” at the Annual Member Meeting hosted by Downtown Cincinnati Inc. (DCI). The positive 2009 report identified several positive indicators during one of the most difficult economic years the nation has seen including:


The meeting, which lasted for just a little over an hour, also included remarks from the Senior Regional Officer of the Cincinnati/Cleveland Branches of the Federal Reserve Bank Dr. LaVaughn Henry, Hamilton County Commissioner Greg Hartmann, Cincinnati City Manager Milton Dohoney, and DCI president David Ginsburg.

The speakers focused on the importance of economic development in the greater downtown areas, each bringing a different viewpoint to the podium. Commissioner Hartmann spoke briefly about the importance of downtown to all of Hamilton County and the region, while using the casino development as a prime example of how to get the public excited and involved in the development process. Dr. LaVaughn Henry addressed the national economic recession and stated that while unemployment is still high here in Cincinnati and across the country, the rate of job loss is slowing and consumer confidence is on the rise.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_U72QTDcNpU0/S97oKhYs2JI/AAAAAAAACWg/f278Z-O4dsw/s1600/Downtown+Cincinnati+Population+Growth.JPG)
Downtown Cincinnati’s population has experienced steady population growth since 2005, and is expected to double by 2012 with the continued renovation of Over-the-Rhine and the opening of The Banks.

City Manager Milton Dohoney stressed the importance of taking risks, while also being cautious in our approach. His remarks on economic development revolved around the creation of new jobs, smarter land use, and partnership and investment in our community.

“Big steps equal big gains,” Dohoney commented in regards to taking risks. “We must work on expanding our tax base, while also proving that we are an inclusive community.”

Following the meeting, UrbanCincy caught up with DCI President David Ginsburg where he discussed the importance of projects like The Banks and the Broadway Commons Casino ultimately not becoming a single destination. Ginsburg also brought up the importance of “zoning flexibility” when it comes to downtown vacancy issues.

“Our primary role is to enhance downtown’s potential as a vibrant, clean and communal place that attracts employers, art, music and the creative class,” Ginsburg stated. “We must continue to improve downtown’s perception by getting more people downtown to witness the improvements firsthand. You wouldn’t buy a new car until you test drove it, so we need to get more people to test drive downtown.”
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on May 12, 2010, 05:51:39 PM
Any idea where these people are expected to come from? Has there been an analysis of that?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 12, 2010, 07:30:35 PM
Any idea where these people are expected to come from? Has there been an analysis of that?

The Banks and rapid Over-the-Rhine redevelopment which has become the strongest real estate market in the region.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on May 13, 2010, 09:36:23 AM
No, I mean where are they moving away from? Which neighborhoods or suburbs are most "losing people" to downtown? What is the percentage of new residents that are "boomerang" Cincinnatians, who have decided to move back to make a home downtown? What's the percentage of them that are moving from other regions? Which other regions are they moving from?

I know it's doubtful that anyone has bothered to make these measures and projections, but I thought I would ask.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 13, 2010, 09:56:30 AM
I don't think it is possible to know where these residents will come from until they actually come and you can conduct surveys.  You can project the demographics that might be inclined to move there though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Quimbob on May 13, 2010, 10:32:14 AM
No, I mean where are they moving away from? Which neighborhoods or suburbs are most "losing people" to downtown? What is the percentage of new residents that are "boomerang" Cincinnatians, who have decided to move back to make a home downtown? What's the percentage of them that are moving from other regions? Which other regions are they moving from?

I know it's doubtful that anyone has bothered to make these measures and projections, but I thought I would ask.
I think you would need to look at people demographics instead of geographic demographics.
I think empty nest baby boomers would be a likely group. I don't see Blue Ash abandoning ship & moving downtown.
WCPO did a phone survey a couple years ago & asked if viewers would consider living downtown. Came up about 5%. Look at the size of their viewing area, take 5% of that & you wind up with a an area a lot bigger than downtown. (yeah, I know it's not scientific)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 13, 2010, 10:38:02 AM
5% of the metro area is 105,000 people.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on May 13, 2010, 12:56:02 PM
Yes, but WCPO only is viewed by part of the entire metro.

I've often wondered this question of where the people will come from, myself.  I love picturing a wholly revitalized OTR with the streetcar and everything, but Cincinnati is barely growing.  Where are all these people going to come from? Will Cincinnati just suddenly turn into a boom town?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 13, 2010, 01:04:26 PM
Yes, but WCPO only is viewed by part of the entire metro.

I've often wondered this question of where the people will come from, myself.  I love picturing a wholly revitalized OTR with the streetcar and everything, but Cincinnati is barely growing.  Where are all these people going to come from? Will Cincinnati just suddenly turn into a boom town?

Our MSA added 162,264 people from 2000-2009.  If the City can absorb a percentage of that equal to its representation in the metro area, that's 24,888 people
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on May 13, 2010, 01:26:24 PM
I don't think it is possible to know where these residents will come from until they actually come and you can conduct surveys.  You can project the demographics that might be inclined to move there though.
Likewise, it is impossible to know how many people will come. It's all just a projection. But that doesn't stop you from quoting an estimation. Admittedly, other demographics would be easier to extrapolate.

I'd also be interested in knowing this data for the people who have moved downtown recently. Again, I would guess no one has attempted such a study. Which I feel even more sure of, since no one here seems to have heard of one.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: UncleRando on May 13, 2010, 02:18:56 PM
I don't think it is possible to know where these residents will come from until they actually come and you can conduct surveys.  You can project the demographics that might be inclined to move there though.
Likewise, it is impossible to know how many people will come. It's all just a projection. But that doesn't stop you from quoting an estimation. Admittedly, other demographics would be easier to extrapolate.

Yes, I did quote a study that used this projection in a story I wrote on the release of its findings.  If you have found flaws in their methodology, of have some direct criticisms of their study, I would suggest you file those complaints with Downtown Cincinnati Inc.

FYI, Downtown Cincinnati Inc. works with the following organizations to put this annual report together.


I'd also be interested in knowing this data for the people who have moved downtown recently. Again, I would guess no one has attempted such a study. Which I feel even more sure of, since no one here seems to have heard of one.

I know that early on, the Gateway Quarter was seeing a large number of Gillette-related professionals move there after P&G acquired Gillette.  As for the rest, I can not offer exact numbers, and as you stated, they probably aren't available.  Your best bet would be talking to Realtor companies around town, or by contacting Cincy MLS.

If you're interested, you can download and read the full report for yourself.
http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/Libraries/Downloads/2009_DCI_Annual_Report.sflb.ashx (http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/Libraries/Downloads/2009_DCI_Annual_Report.sflb.ashx)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on May 13, 2010, 04:30:53 PM
I think OTR and DT both have the potential for a flipping point - like Mt. Adams had in the late 60s and early 70s. When they hit it they could grow by 10k or so very quickly. I don't think either are there yet, but it seems to be getting closer.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Seth on May 13, 2010, 05:09:13 PM
I think OTR and DT both have the potential for a flipping point - like Mt. Adams had in the late 60s and early 70s. When they hit it they could grow by 10k or so very quickly. I don't think either are there yet, but it seems to be getting closer.
You're right.  The time is right and the stars are almost aligned.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: xumelanie on May 13, 2010, 09:08:26 PM
No, I mean where are they moving away from? Which neighborhoods or suburbs are most "losing people" to downtown? What is the percentage of new residents that are "boomerang" Cincinnatians, who have decided to move back to make a home downtown? What's the percentage of them that are moving from other regions? Which other regions are they moving from?

This is far from being a study, but I can say that the people living in my building seem to come from all over.  We're right on the edge of downtown and OTR.  Some have lived in Greater Cincinnati for a long time, and they moved here from Delhi, Mt. Airy, Clermont County, Hamilton, etc.  My husband and I both spent most of our lives on the west side of town, then had moved to Pleasant Ridge for a few years before moving to our current home.  Others have moved here from other cities such as Chicago, St. Louis, New York, Boston etc.  A few more grew up in Cincinnati, moved to other areas, then moved here to their current home.  I don't think there is one neighborhood in particular that is suddenly losing a lot of people because of the new residences in downtown and OTR. 

There also seems to be a wide variety of ages.  Some have only been out of college for a few years, some are retired, and there are all ages in between.  There are even a few families with small children.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on May 14, 2010, 05:52:18 AM
Thanks, Melanie and Randy.

Hopefully, momentum really picks up from outside the region.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 25, 2010, 09:13:45 AM
KZF makes HQ move downtown
Business Courier of Cincinnati



KZF Design said Thursday it has moved its headquarters from the Baldwin Building in Walnut Hills to a renovated facility downtown.

Read more: KZF makes HQ move downtown - Business Courier of Cincinnati


http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/06/21/daily42.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/06/21/daily42.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 03, 2010, 09:02:26 AM
Once again, in your face Mason!


Unilever takes entire floor at Center at 600 Vine
Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Courier Senior Staff Reporter


Unilever is moving a 40-person office from Mason to downtown, boosting occupancy at the once near-empty Center at 600 Vine.

Marcus Sebens and Wayne Hach from Cincinnati Commercial Realtors represented the consumer goods company in the transaction. They indicated the company wanted to be closer to major customer Kroger Co. Unilever’s stable of brands include Dove, Bertolli, Hellmann’s and Lipton.


http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/09/06/tidbits1.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/09/06/tidbits1.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 20, 2010, 08:37:21 PM
Servatii’s signs lease on Fountain Square
Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Lisa Benson Online Managing Editor



Well-known Cincinnati bakery Servatii’s Pastry Shop and Deli will be bringing its donuts, cakes and pretzel bagels to a new location on Fountain Square.

The company signed a lease for a 1,750-square-foot space at the southeast portion of the Fifth Third Center tower. The new Servatii's will be at the corner of Walnut and Fifth Streets and will be open early in 2011.


http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/09/20/daily5.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/09/20/daily5.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Weedrose on September 21, 2010, 12:11:38 PM
What does Servatii's add to the square there are already alot of light food shops near the square?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oneglove on September 21, 2010, 12:28:46 PM
What does Servatii's add to the square there are already alot of light food shops near the square?

Another tenant
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: sheady on September 21, 2010, 12:32:51 PM
Friday, September 17, 2010  |  Modified: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 5:00am EDT
Signs point to Governor’s Hill for Fifth Third Processing
Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Courier Senior Staff Reporter
 
FTPS is likely to go to Governor's Hill in Mason.
View Larger Symmes Township trustees are expected to vote in October on an incentive offer to attract Fifth Third Processing Solutions LLC to the Governor’s Hill office campus off Interstate 71.

Township Administrator Gerald Beckman said trustees will consider an increase in the township’s 50 percent cap on property tax abatements. Beckman said he is negotiating with a Columbus-based site search consultant on how high the percentage will go.

“Basically, it depends on jobs,” Beckman said.

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/09/20/tidbits1.html?b=1284955200 (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/09/20/tidbits1.html?b=1284955200)^3960051

Not good
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on September 21, 2010, 01:09:04 PM
Link above is (somewhat) broken. This link (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/09/20/tidbits1.html?b=1284955200^3960051) will take you to the article.


And ugh...

"Cincinnati City Manager Milton Dohoney said in late August that the city has made aggressive incentive offers to FTPS, but he also indicated that a lack of available downtown parking could be a problem."

How about the traffic nightmare at 71/Fields Ertle/Mason-Montgomery?!?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JYP on September 21, 2010, 04:44:46 PM
Dohoney's statement doesn't make any sense.  With the consolidation of Great American Insurance into QCS there should be plenty of room in the newly vacated towers, along with room in the building that housed National City's local HQ before moving to the PNC Center.  Where do those people park now?  I am sure most of them are not parking at Broadway Commons. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: bfwissel on September 22, 2010, 11:03:49 AM
Our company uses Broadway Commons for parking now and we have another location chosen already which is a bit farther.  However, this free parking was eight blocks away to start with, so another block or two doesn't really seem to matter from my standpoint.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on September 22, 2010, 11:38:16 AM
It doesn't have anything to do with parking.  It's just the catch-all reason for anything not happening in a city. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on October 08, 2010, 08:54:34 AM
Landor, Holland shop for space, remain in place
Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Courier Senior Staff Reporter



Two downtown marketing firms are growing deeper roots.

Landor Associates has renewed its 40,000-square-foot lease at Shillito Place while Holland Advertising has moved down one floor to remain at 700 Walnut. Both were able to save some money by addressing their space needs at a time when downtown’s major landlords are willing to cut deals.


http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/10/11/story18.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/10/11/story18.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on October 15, 2010, 10:38:22 AM
Man. if Corporex loses both Omnicare and Nielson, that would be a huge hole in their RiverCenter portfolio!


Nielsen looks to consolidate, possibly with downtown space
Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Courier Senior Staff Reporter


Covington could lose up to 600 jobs if the Nielsen Co. relocates its market-research operation from Madison Place.

Several real estate brokers tell Insider that the Corporex Cos. tenant has been scouting alternate sites in downtown Cincinnati over the last few months.

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/10/18/tidbits1.html (http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/10/18/tidbits1.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on October 15, 2010, 12:12:59 PM
Everyone talks about losing business to KY, but this will go under the radar. If a similar move were in reverse, it would be all over the Cincinnati.com's front page.

Regionally, it is zero-sum. So not a big deal, overall. They aren't even moving out of the urban core. A small win for Cincinnati proper and Ohio.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: unusualfire on October 15, 2010, 01:29:01 PM
Maybe Ashland Oil will expand in the complex. Honestly though, can't have your cake and eat it too.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on October 15, 2010, 03:49:22 PM
Man. if Corporex loses both Omnicare and Nielson, that would be a huge hole in their RiverCenter portfolio!

Omnicare to 525 Vine and Nielsen to 580 Walnut  ;-)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: oakiehigh on October 21, 2010, 07:28:56 PM
W&S studies development
Headquarters, condos, café considered for downtown

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20101021/BIZ/10220359/ (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20101021/BIZ/10220359/)

Western & Southern Financial Group is considering plans for future development of at least three new buildings in the southeast section of downtown, including the possibility of a new headquarters, The Enquirer has learned.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on October 21, 2010, 08:09:38 PM
^Well, that certainly was interesting.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: blackmjc on October 21, 2010, 08:25:44 PM
Going to out-do themselves with a new tallest building for themselves??
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on October 21, 2010, 09:15:03 PM
Where exactly adjacent to its current offices along Broadway Street could they build?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=400+Broadway+Street+Cincinnati,+Ohio+45202&sll=39.101537,-84.506096&sspn=0.007627,0.013797&g=400+Broadway+Street+Cincinnati,+Ohio+45202&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=400+Broadway+St,+Cincinnati,+Hamilton,+Ohio+45202&ll=39.101546,-84.505371&spn=0.001907,0.003449&t=h&z=18 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=400+Broadway+Street+Cincinnati,+Ohio+45202&sll=39.101537,-84.506096&sspn=0.007627,0.013797&g=400+Broadway+Street+Cincinnati,+Ohio+45202&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=400+Broadway+St,+Cincinnati,+Hamilton,+Ohio+45202&ll=39.101546,-84.505371&spn=0.001907,0.003449&t=h&z=18)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: unusualfire on October 21, 2010, 09:16:35 PM
But a toy distributor is moving to Mariemount. To bad it couldn't stay downtown.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developingnow/2010/10/21/toy-distributor-buys-mariemont-warehouse/ (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developingnow/2010/10/21/toy-distributor-buys-mariemont-warehouse/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on October 21, 2010, 09:24:18 PM
Where exactly adjacent to its current offices along Broadway Street could they build?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=400+Broadway+Street+Cincinnati,+Ohio+45202&sll=39.101537,-84.506096&sspn=0.007627,0.013797&g=400+Broadway+Street+Cincinnati,+Ohio+45202&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=400+Broadway+St,+Cincinnati,+Hamilton,+Ohio+45202&ll=39.101546,-84.505371&spn=0.001907,0.003449&t=h&z=18 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=400+Broadway+Street+Cincinnati,+Ohio+45202&sll=39.101537,-84.506096&sspn=0.007627,0.013797&g=400+Broadway+Street+Cincinnati,+Ohio+45202&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=400+Broadway+St,+Cincinnati,+Hamilton,+Ohio+45202&ll=39.101546,-84.505371&spn=0.001907,0.003449&t=h&z=18)

The W&S Parking Garage or the Queen City Club site. Not technically adjacent, but pretty close. I'm trying to figure out where they plan on fitting in that condo building.

Wish someone could talk them into moving over to the southwest side of DT. Things are already sorta lopsided in terms of skyline balance and their are a couple of surface lots over that way that need to be filled in.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on October 22, 2010, 09:41:58 AM
^No doubt.  Any type of upward development in SW DT would do wonders for the breadth of the skyline.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: dmerkow on October 22, 2010, 10:13:36 AM
Unfortunately the west side of DT is the utility side of town, neither of which are going to build a new tower anytime soon (Duke and Cincy Bell).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: j3shafer on October 22, 2010, 07:18:50 PM
^I'd be happy with some mid-sized (Cincinnati scale) fillers.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JYP on October 23, 2010, 12:49:12 AM
The west side of DT has it's challenges.  Along with utility companies, there is also the convention center and city hall.  Residential is definitely a possibility and some more retail to help support the convention center.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on October 23, 2010, 06:01:58 AM
^You guys all forgetting about the behemoth surface lot on Plum between 4th and 5th?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Seth on October 23, 2010, 12:53:37 PM
BTW One Lytle Place needs a facade makeover ASAP
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 09, 2010, 09:17:04 AM
Yoga Row creating new unions along Main Street
Business Courier - by Jenny Kessler
Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 9:38am EST



A visit to Main Street between Eighth and Liberty streets nowadays reveals a neighborhood not only on the mend but on the rise.

“There are a few signs that keen-eyed observers of urban areas look for that an area is changing,” says Main Street business owner Nancy Willman. “The increased use of bicycles, people walking pets, a new hardware store or successful bakery, and another is the growth of yoga studios. Main Street shows all these signs — especially now with four yoga studios equally spaced along eight blocks of Main Street.”


http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2010/11/yoga-row-creating-new-business-unions.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2010/11/yoga-row-creating-new-business-unions.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on January 16, 2011, 07:48:44 AM
Newest tower creates office space aplenty

By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn • lbernard@enquirer.com • January 16, 2011


DOWNTOWN - The upcoming move of 2,500 American Financial Group workers into the region's newest skyscraper is expected to set off a major ripple effect - creating the biggest shift in downtown office space in decades and a huge renters' market.

The downtown vacancy rate is expected to be at its highest level in 25 years now that the Great American Tower at Queen City Square is starting to open.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110116/BIZ01/101160308/1055/NEWS/Newest-tower-creates-office-space-aplenty (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110116/BIZ01/101160308/1055/NEWS/Newest-tower-creates-office-space-aplenty)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Neville on January 16, 2011, 08:58:59 AM
I think more telling will be for how long the vacancy rates stay high. If they drop within a reasonable amount of time, I would have to say that our local economy is doing pretty well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ajknee on January 16, 2011, 10:46:51 AM
Wasn't sure where to post this, but I think it's appropriate here...

I noticed last night that the Fountain Square website is down.  To me, the proper management of Fountain Square should be top priority in downtown.  Up until this point it's been a huge success, but this worries me.  Any thoughts?  Who pays for their domain name?

www.myfountainsquare.com (http://www.myfountainsquare.com)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on January 16, 2011, 02:37:09 PM
I believe it is 3CDC, or some division of theirs. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Seth on January 21, 2011, 02:47:12 PM
It's back online and now it's a blog using wordpress.com's default theme twenty ten.

http://www.myfountainsquare.com/ (http://www.myfountainsquare.com/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 08, 2011, 08:58:22 AM
Retail specialist Brandt leaves ‘burbs for downtown
Brokerage hopes to ride increased interest in urban core
Business Courier - by Tom Demeropolis, Courier Staff Reporter
Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 6:00am EDT



Retail broker Steve Brandt is moving his office downtown as his firm continues its push to fill up retail space in the city of Cincinnati and surrounding urban areas.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2011/04/08/retail-specialist-brandt-leaves-burbs.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2011/04/08/retail-specialist-brandt-leaves-burbs.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on August 30, 2011, 09:24:08 AM
Covington worried about Omnicare, Nielsen
6:22 AM, Aug. 28, 2011  | 
Written by
Mike Rutledge


First of all, I agree that relocating existing companies/tenants at a reduced tax bill is not economic development, it shrinks the pie for all, but this quote is the best....

Quote
"The governor of Ohio, I'm being told, is being very aggressive in trying to pull businesses across the river," Banta said. "I don't think that's necessarily good for our region."

Oh really?  What about the last 20 years when RiverCenter was sucking tenants out of downtown Cincinnati and the rest of Ohio, where was your moral high ground then? (FYI I worked at Corporex during that time).
Bill Butler even had a Jim Borgman cartoon in his office showing the RiverCenter complex sucking jobs across the river into Covington.


COVINGTON - Officials in Northern Kentucky's largest city are concerned two significant employers - Omnicare Inc. and The Nielsen Co. (formerly known as AC Nielsen) - may be lured across the Ohio River or to another part of Northern Kentucky, taking not only two prestigious firms from Covington's riverfront office towers, but also approximately $1 million in combined annual payroll taxes.

Covington officials believe a combination of forces have increased the possibility Nielsen and Omnicare may move. They say factors like plentiful office space in downtown Cincinnati - prompting building owners to dangle attractive rents - and more aggressive recruitment efforts by the state of Ohio have caused them to consider sites in Downtown Cincinnati their biggest rivals.

http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20110828/NEWS0103/108290301/Covington-worried-about-Omnicare-Nielsen?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE (http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20110828/NEWS0103/108290301/Covington-worried-about-Omnicare-Nielsen?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on August 30, 2011, 10:07:43 AM
Giving them tax benefits to move within the region is absurd, regardless of KY's tactics used to do the same in the past. We don't need a KCK/KCM-style (Kansas Cities) competition here. If that type of cannibalism is Kasich's idea of job growth, he can shove it!

I wasn't chomping at the bit for Sears, but that would've been an infinitely better trophy for Ohio, even ignoring the larger size.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Neville on August 30, 2011, 10:12:06 AM
And what are the chances of either of those companies even relocating to Downtown Cincy, let alone anywhere in the city. They'd probably go to some far-flung suburb. >:-(

I may just be jaded though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on August 30, 2011, 10:49:01 AM
And what are the chances of either of those companies even relocating to Downtown Cincy, let alone anywhere in the city. They'd probably go to some far-flung suburb. >:-(

I may just be jaded though.

The article says plentiful (and therefore cheap) office space in downtown is part of what's scaring Covington.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on August 30, 2011, 11:00:23 AM
Downtown needs a residential tower catering to an older demographic that doesn't want to pioneer in OTR and doesn't want to hear sports games and bar crowds out their windows at the Banks. Cincy has a relatively healthy business climate. It's the residential base that really needs to be built up.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on August 30, 2011, 11:29:17 AM
Downtown needs a residential tower catering to an older demographic that doesn't want to pioneer in OTR and doesn't want to hear sports games and bar crowds out their windows at the Banks. Cincy has a relatively healthy business climate. It's the residential base that really needs to be built up.

My spidey sense thinks that Western Southern agrees with you, and thinks that the only realistic location for this was Lytle Park.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on August 30, 2011, 12:41:03 PM
They obviously have a vision for and investment in that corner of downtown. I don't know if it's the only place they think is realistic (and if they do think that, I don't agree), but it's obviously where they want to develop whatever projects they have planned.

Maybe you've stumbled upon the "why" of that spot in particular, but they've owned property in the area for longer than I suspect they've had their current grand plan. Applying Occam's razor, I think they started in the area because they've owned property there, and they just want all their investments to piggy-back on each other (e.g. bringing a bunch of monied empty-nesters to the Anna Louise Inn property would bolster demand for retail at Queen City Square as opposed to somewhere else).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: subocincy on August 30, 2011, 01:09:00 PM
My feelings mirror those of Natininja--although it would be a coup for DT Cincy to snare Omnicare, it's still a shame that NKY (especially immediately across the river) will have to take the hit.  As already mentioned, better to snag Fortune 500 cookies from cities elsewhere rather than from our brothers & sisters in our own backyard.  I also share several other aforementioned concerns: (1) as yet, there's no guarantee that Omnicare won't choose a suburban location, or (2) under Kasick's "job growth program," fly straight to DT...Columbus!  Lastly, please don't brand me insensitive to the "human-issues" involved, but I do think the city missed a golden opportunity to erect a tall residential tower at the Lytle Park location; what a formidable presence such a structure would be adjacent to the Great American Tower! 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on August 30, 2011, 06:31:58 PM
I believe Omnicare was in downtown Cincinnati prior to moving to Covington.  They were spun off from Chemed and I believe they sub-leased space from the parent company (either in the Chemed Center or wherever Chemed was prior to that building) until moving across the river.

EDIT:

Quote
The company's growth led to new offices. In late 1996 it had too many employees for its Chemed Center headquarters in Cincinnati, so it moved ten employees to a small office in Covington, Kentucky's RiverCenter office tower. This initial move came after the Kentucky Economic Development Finance Authority in November 1996 authorized tax incentives to get Omnicare to cross the Ohio River to nearby Covington. In 1997 Omnicare decided to move its headquarters to the newly built second RiverCenter tower, where it remained after the turn of the century.
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Omnicare-Inc-Company-History.html (http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Omnicare-Inc-Company-History.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy1 on August 30, 2011, 08:41:31 PM
^ I wish Kentucky officials thought a little more regionally back in 1996 when Omnicare was lured over there.   I seem to recall they offered serious incentives to Convergys a few years back, which ended up costing the city more to keep them.  There are actually many examples so the call for being regional seems hollow.  I think there needs to be an agreement within the metro to avoid poaching, but I have no problem bringing Omnicare back if that happens.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on August 30, 2011, 09:32:22 PM
There was a similar feel when they were asked about their thoughts on pitching in on the stadia construction.  The answer was, "we're not going to pay, but we want both stadiums on the riverfront".  i.e we want all the benefits and none of the cost.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 30, 2011, 10:24:23 PM
How's that Purple People Bridge hotel coming, Wally?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 09, 2011, 08:10:46 AM
Battle heats up over Omnicare's HQ
Kentucky, Ohio each offer millions in incentives
Date: Friday, September 9, 2011, 6:00am EDT


Kentucky officials have offered more than $20 million in tax breaks and parking discounts to retain Omnicare Inc.    But Covington City Manager Larry Klein fears the offer will fall short of a $30 million package that Ohio is believed to be offering.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2011/09/09/battle-heats-up-over-omnicares-hq.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2011/09/09/battle-heats-up-over-omnicares-hq.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: unusualfire on September 09, 2011, 07:10:22 PM
Aren't these states and schools suffering from all the tax breaks giving to companies in the past???
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 09, 2011, 07:39:16 PM
Yes, that is the problem, the pie shrinks for everyone.  The only winners are the corporations.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Krugkiw on September 10, 2011, 11:56:44 AM
Some healthy competition between NKY and Cincy has produced good results over the years, but this seems like just a race to the bottom.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 19, 2011, 01:29:09 PM
A re-post from the general economic forum, good news for Cincy and Ohio, a net loss for the region though. 


Omnicare will move to Cincinnati
Business Courier
Date: Monday, September 19, 2011, 12:24pm EDT - Last Modified: Monday, September 19, 2011, 2:05pm EDT
Kristin Davenport


Omnicare Inc. will move its corporate headquarters to downtown Cincinnati, the company announced today.

The pharmaceutical services firm will begin to leave its current HQ, in Covington's RiverCenter, in December. The move will be completed in June 2012, the company said. Nearly 500 Omnicare employees will make the transition to the new headquarters. Over the next few years, Omnicare anticipates expanding its total employee base in Cincinnati by at least 150 employees.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2011/09/19/omnicare-will-move-to-cincinnati.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2011/09/19/omnicare-will-move-to-cincinnati.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Brutus_buckeye on September 22, 2011, 03:24:29 PM
Look at the competition as a good thing. Better to have the decision come down between Cincinnati an Covington as opposed to Cincinnati and Charlotte. It is no big gain of jobs but no loss either.  Even though the cities area playing off each other for the same jobs, a company like Omnicare is also doing its due dilligence and soliciting offers from other cities in the US, especially ones where they have an operational base already.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jdm00 on November 09, 2011, 11:59:17 AM
Fifth and Race is another spot that the city can really influence development of.  No luck there yet. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Matthew Hall on November 09, 2011, 04:37:32 PM
I'd argue that the city never tried to develop 5th and race after tearing down what was there and pissing nordstrom's off. 3cdc has only made a half way effort as they have undertaking smaller projects in otr. Still, the city or new port authority could do all sorts of things to get it developed. tax exemptions, port authority issued bonds and flexibility on multiple uses could all make a difference as commercial real estate begins to return. I think a plan for developing it in stages starting with mid-rise condos and maybe a hotel might do well. That wouldn't interfere with the market for more apartments in the Banks.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 09, 2011, 07:20:02 PM
Quote
I'd argue that the city never tried to develop 5th and race after tearing down what was there and pissing nordstrom's off. 3cdc has only made a half way effort as they have undertaking smaller projects in otr. Still, the city or new port authority could do all sorts of things to get it developed. tax exemptions, port authority issued bonds and flexibility on multiple uses could all make a difference as commercial real estate begins to return. I think a plan for developing it in stages starting with mid-rise condos and maybe a hotel might do well. That wouldn't interfere with the market for more apartments in the Banks.

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2772.5490.html#ixzz1dGAXD8fW (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2772.5490.html#ixzz1dGAXD8fW)

The City was very close several times and had development agreements with several different parties.  The deal with McAlpins died at the 11th hour due to the McAlpins/May Stores acquisition (and I believe later bankruptcy), then the Nordstrom deal, and then Western-Southern/Eagle had it under development agreement for several years.  I am sure I can remember more details if I put my mind to it.  No way anyone is building condos anywhere anytime soon.

 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 09, 2011, 07:42:43 PM
We ended up with zero new department stores, but if you remember, we came quite close to getting two.  In addition to the Nordstrom site, they were also hoping for a new department store at 3rd & Race (Maisson-Blanche, I think).  The focus on Race St. continued with the first streetcar proposals connecting Findlay Market with Downtown straight down Race & Elm.   

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on November 09, 2011, 10:31:12 PM
I think in the end the city is doing things the right way now, even if they didn't plan it this way 20 years ago. They are starting to think about infrastructure and actual city building, rather than chasing marquee projects like department stores. To clarify, in my mind there are smart pursuits:

Transportation policy and infrastructure
Correct zoning
Parks and greenspace
Tax policy
TIF and Empowerment Zones
Financing assistance, block grants, bridge loans, etc

...and the not-so-smart:

Stadiums
Department stores
Downtown malls
Skyscrapers
Big corporate tax breaks
"Identity," theming, slogans, etc
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 09, 2011, 11:08:05 PM
The legacy of Qualls will be that she was the first person to start tilting the conversation in the direction you're speaking of.  She's a big reason why our stadium project was combined with a real city project and didn't simply replicate Riverfront. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on November 10, 2011, 01:12:40 AM
The legacy of Qualls will be that she was the first person to start tilting the conversation in the direction you're speaking of.  She's a big reason why our stadium project was combined with a real city project and didn't simply replicate Riverfront. 

We'll see what she can do with the bridgedoggle/75-widening. She's been the one paying lip service to tying it to neighborhood redevelopment. So far, it's just talk, from what I can tell.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: subocincy on November 10, 2011, 05:23:20 AM
I think in the end the city is doing things the right way now, even if they didn't plan it this way 20 years ago. They are starting to think about infrastructure and actual city building, rather than chasing marquee projects like department stores. To clarify, in my mind there are smart pursuits:

Transportation policy and infrastructure
Correct zoning
Parks and greenspace
Tax policy
TIF and Empowerment Zones
Financing assistance, block grants, bridge loans, etc

...and the not-so-smart:

Stadiums
Department stores
Downtown malls
Skyscrapers
Big corporate tax breaks
"Identity," theming, slogans, etc

Great post, Civvik; one to really think about!  Just one question, though, concerning your "not-so-smart" list--the very last one mentioning "slogans," etc.  Absolutely no disagreement here--we're all probably tired of the relentless and useless "naming" (the "Blue Chip City," etc.).  However, I sense that something important may be emerging here in the Queen City--and that is that the city just could develop as a "Mecca of Marketing," considering the powerful presence of P & G, Kroger, and Macy's, etc.  So, briefly, what are your thoughts here?  In no way do I want to hijack this thread by taking off on this idea, but I really would like to hear from those of you "in-the-know" (perhaps in another thread) if such a development is realistic or feasible?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on November 10, 2011, 09:36:44 AM
I think in the end the city is doing things the right way now, even if they didn't plan it this way 20 years ago. They are starting to think about infrastructure and actual city building, rather than chasing marquee projects like department stores. To clarify, in my mind there are smart pursuits:

Transportation policy and infrastructure
Correct zoning
Parks and greenspace
Tax policy
TIF and Empowerment Zones
Financing assistance, block grants, bridge loans, etc

...and the not-so-smart:

Stadiums
Department stores
Downtown malls
Skyscrapers
Big corporate tax breaks
"Identity," theming, slogans, etc

Great post, Civvik; one to really think about!  Just one question, though, concerning your "not-so-smart" list--the very last one mentioning "slogans," etc.  Absolutely no disagreement here--we're all probably tired of the relentless and useless "naming" (the "Blue Chip City," etc.).  However, I sense that something important may be emerging here in the Queen City--and that is that the city just could develop as a "Mecca of Marketing," considering the powerful presence of P & G, Kroger, and Macy's, etc.  So, briefly, what are your thoughts here?  In no way do I want to hijack this thread by taking off on this idea, but I really would like to hear from those of you "in-the-know" (perhaps in another thread) if such a development is realistic or feasible?

Probably best for another thread, not sure which one though. I'm not a mod anymore. :P
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on November 10, 2011, 09:49:08 AM
The legacy of Qualls will be that she was the first person to start tilting the conversation in the direction you're speaking of.  She's a big reason why our stadium project was combined with a real city project and didn't simply replicate Riverfront. 

We'll see what she can do with the bridgedoggle/75-widening. She's been the one paying lip service to tying it to neighborhood redevelopment. So far, it's just talk, from what I can tell.

The state DOT (aka the asphalt mafia...no really, if you've ever worked with these guys, for the most part, you'd understand) is a very, very big boy in the sandbox, and he likes things to go his way. However, there is precedent for working with them; The Banks was a good example of that. Some DOT's are more sophisticated than others, depending on who the current secretary is. Pennsylvania, for example, recently had a very sophisticated secretary, and a lot has been done there to get their DOT away from zombie-road-widening.

In Ohio, I'm not sure what will happen now that we have an asphalt boy back in charge. To be sure, high oil and material costs in the 2000's helped more sophisticated transportation secretaries push their agendas forward. I can say, however, that you can't do much better than Qualls to put in the ring with these guys, she is one of those people who "really gets it" in terms of linking transportation and good city building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 10, 2011, 12:01:37 PM
the "Blue Chip City,"

Who remembers the Laura Pulfer-era "Let the Spirit Move You".  That slogan was introduced a month or two before the riot, which is why it was never proliferated. 

I mean, we used to have 200,000 people reading columns by...Laura Pulfer, and can't figure out why our population is so massively uninformed. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on November 10, 2011, 02:12:45 PM
Another thing I noticed while living there is that Cincinnatians overall are quite intelligent. In order to hoodwink them, it takes a level of manipulation much higher than it would to fool the general population. Because of that, they have get all these "Great Manipulators" that are good at tripletalk, being extra slimy, work very hard and maximize the use of every connection they have available in order to sway opinions. It's one of the main reasons Cincinnati politics is so zany if you ask me. Washington D.C. city politics is the same way with all those politicos and highly educated people around. In the City of Columbus things are pretty straightforward because we don't have slimeballs trying to hijack the discourse all the time -- those people hang around the Statehouse instead!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 14, 2011, 11:19:07 AM
When I lived in the south, I couldn't believe how naive the population was.  Generally, people are most easily tricked by their own sons (for example, in the north whites are good at spotting slimy black leadership and vice verse, but it's also specific religions and neighborhoods).  Having some yankee point out the various swindles their favorite sons were pulling on them was total meltdown.  In the south there's a total cultural aversion to criticizing the south in even the most superficial respect, and there is no culture of facts.  It's all folksy emotion, except for the 1/2 percent of the population that figured out how to exploit it and does so with complete impugnity.

When I lived in Knoxville, the mayor was George Bush's old college roommate.  When Bush got in the white house, he was named ambassador to Pogo-Pogo or someplace like that.  Immediately -- like within a year -- downtown began its meteoric rebound.  That's because the mayor's brother was the area's top suburban real estate developer and had the mayor kill downtown on purpose right after the 1982 World's Fair.  When that in at city hall evaporated, the (cough) free market was allowed to run its course. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on November 14, 2011, 12:10:54 PM
When I lived in the south, I couldn't believe how naive the population was.  Generally, people are most easily tricked by their own sons (for example, in the north whites are good at spotting slimy black leadership and vice verse, but it's also specific religions and neighborhoods).  Having some yankee point out the various swindles their favorite sons were pulling on them was total meltdown.  In the south there's a total cultural aversion to criticizing the south in even the most superficial respect, and there is no culture of facts.  It's all folksy emotion, except for the 1/2 percent of the population that figured out how to exploit it and does so with complete impugnity.

When I was an investment adviser, one of my co-workers was a girl from Tennessee (this was in Columbus). She basically couldn't go home and drum up business down there because they wouldn't talk about money with someone they "sort of" knew for the reasons that you mentioned. I guess she turned into a Yankee when she decided to attend OSU.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on January 06, 2012, 09:37:54 AM
Fox Sports Ohio moves to downtown Cincinnati
Broadcaster's space in 600 Vine building will include studio for planned productions
Business Courier by Tom Demeropolis, Staff Reporter
Date: Friday, January 6, 2012, 6:00am EST


The regional office of Fox Sports Ohio is moving downtown to get closer to the action.  The broadcast group will relocate to Center at 600 Vine from its space on Cornell Park Drive in Blue Ash.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/01/06/fox-sports-ohio-moves-to-downtown.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/01/06/fox-sports-ohio-moves-to-downtown.html)

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on January 20, 2012, 08:48:33 AM
Keating, Muething & Klekamp shops for new Cincinnati space
Business Courier by Tom Demeropolis, Staff Reporter
Date: Friday, January 20, 2012, 6:00am EST

 

One of Cincinnati’s largest law firms is on the hunt for new office space.

Keating, Muething & Klekamp PLL, the 105-attorney law firm, is scouring the central business district for 80,000 to 90,000 square feet of space. KMK’s lease at One East Fourth Street runs to 2014, but the firm is testing the waters because tenants currently have the upper hand in today’s downtown real estate negotiations.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/01/20/keating-muething-klekamp-shops-for.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/01/20/keating-muething-klekamp-shops-for.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: CincyImages on January 20, 2012, 09:22:25 AM
Fox Sports Ohio moves to downtown Cincinnati
Broadcaster's space in 600 Vine building will include studio for planned productions
Business Courier by Tom Demeropolis, Staff Reporter
Date: Friday, January 6, 2012, 6:00am EST


The regional office of Fox Sports Ohio is moving downtown to get closer to the action.  The broadcast group will relocate to Center at 600 Vine from its space on Cornell Park Drive in Blue Ash.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/01/06/fox-sports-ohio-moves-to-downtown.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/01/06/fox-sports-ohio-moves-to-downtown.html)



I am surprised to see the current office is in Blue Ash.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on January 20, 2012, 11:40:04 AM
I'm not, it's Fox.  :-D
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on March 02, 2012, 09:16:36 AM
A few articles on the URS tower and the namesake tenant moving to 525 Vine........

URS will leave downtown Cincinnati namesake building
Engineering firm heads to 525 Vine
Business Courier by Jon Newberry, Staff Reporter
Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 6:00am EST - Last Modified: Friday, March 2, 2012, 8:49am EST


Downtown Cincinnati’s game of musical chairs continues, with URS Corp.’s    signing of a new lease at 525 Vine, for office space previously occupied by Great American Insurance Co.   

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/03/02/urs-will-leave-downtown-cincinnati.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/03/02/urs-will-leave-downtown-cincinnati.html)

Cincinnati's URS Center faces foreclosure
Business Courier by Jon Newberry, Staff Reporter
Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 6:00am EST


As URS Corp. prepares to move out of its namesake downtown Cincinnati tower, the URS Center faces a foreclosure lawsuit, filed last year by creditors.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/03/02/cincinnatis-urs-center-faces.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/03/02/cincinnatis-urs-center-faces.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 12, 2012, 09:40:27 AM

Survey finds locals feel really good about downtown, Over-the-Rhine
Business Courier by Lucy May, Senior Staff Reporter
Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 9:39am EST - Last Modified: Monday, November 12, 2012, 9:52am EST


Local residents are feeling better than ever about downtown Cincinnati, according to a recent survey by booster group Downtown Cincinnati Inc., with 90 percent of those polled saying their overall impression of downtown was either extremely or somewhat positive.

Those are the best results DCI has ever received for its Downtown Perceptions Survey, said Mindy Rosen, senior vice president of communications and marketing at DCI. The downtown advocacy and marketing group has been conducting the survey on and off for the past 10 years, she said. DCI conducts the survey as part of its commitment to track data that reflects downtown’s economic, business and residential development. The group uses the results to inform its own work plan and performance, too.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/11/12/survey-finds-locals-feel-real-good.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/11/12/survey-finds-locals-feel-real-good.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 20, 2012, 09:07:32 AM

FirstGroup eyes downtown Cincinnati HQ move
Business Courier by Jon Newberry, Staff Reporter
Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 8:56am EST - Last Modified: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 9:09am EST



FirstGroup America, which got a million-dollar tax incentive deal from the city when it moved into the Center at 600 Vine downtown in 2008, is back in the market for office space.

David Farrar, who joined the company as director of real estate in the spring, said FirstGroup is looking around again.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/11/20/firstgroup-eyes-downtown-cincinnati-hq.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/11/20/firstgroup-eyes-downtown-cincinnati-hq.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on December 17, 2012, 08:20:07 AM

Engineering firm to move HQ to downtown Cincinnati
Business Courier by Jon Newberry, Staff Reporter
Date: Monday, December 17, 2012, 8:34am EST - Last Modified: Monday, December 17, 2012, 8:43am EST



Jedson Engineering has purchased the Centennial Plaza I office building and plans to relocate its headquarters and bring 100 or more new jobs to downtown Cincinnati.

Jedson is currently based in Park 50 in Clermont County outside Milford. It provides engineering, procurement, construction management services to customers in paper, chemical, food and beverage, and other industries.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/12/17/engineering-firm-to-move-hq-to.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/12/17/engineering-firm-to-move-hq-to.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on December 17, 2012, 08:42:28 AM
^ Using tax incentives to poach from within the region...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: OTR on December 17, 2012, 08:56:00 AM
City's core home for more than pioneers
Families join influx of residents who are embracing urban living

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121216/BIZ/312160066/City-s-core-home-more-than-pioneers (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121216/BIZ/312160066/City-s-core-home-more-than-pioneers)

Don't miss this gallery of the home at W 14th and Pleasant: LINK (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=AB&Dato=20121213&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=212130801&Ref=PH/Downtown-living-116-West-14th)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: subocincy on December 17, 2012, 09:06:51 AM
^ Using tax incentives to poach from within the region...
Yep, but at least this company is coming into downtown instead of out of it, and with 100+ decent jobs that will benefit this western sector of the CBD.  (However, your previous comment was a valid one and didn't go unnoticed.)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on January 30, 2013, 02:27:43 PM
Downtown Cincinnati's Residence Inn wins 2 national awards
Lisa Benson
Managing Editor- Business Courier



Downtown Cincinnati's Residence Inn received two prestigious awards, both from its own brand and from the national travel website TripAdvisor.com.

The Residence Inn Cincinnati Downtown at the Phelps was named the No. 1 hotel in the Residence Inn brand for guest satisfaction, scoring the highest of 621 Residence Inns in the U.S. The survey is done by its parent Marriott International.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/01/30/downtown-cincinnatis-residence-inn.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/01/30/downtown-cincinnatis-residence-inn.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on January 31, 2013, 07:42:49 AM
Neyer Properties buys Holiday Office Park
Jon Newberry
Staff Reporter- Business Courier



Neyer Properties acquired the Holiday Office Park in Queensgate and plans to redevelop the 10-acre, three-building complex.

The office park’s main tenant currently is Paycor Inc., which is building a new headquarters and will be moving to Norwood in 2014.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/01/30/neyer-properties-buys-holiday-office.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/01/30/neyer-properties-buys-holiday-office.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: KyleCincy on February 04, 2013, 12:50:31 PM
Both of the Centennial Plaza buildings were bought at auction in December. Jedson Engineering is moving their HQ to Centennial Plaza 1 from Milford.
They picked that building up for next to nothing.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on August 16, 2013, 11:31:42 AM
There was a conversation going on about income taxes that I moved here: Cincinnati: Tax Discussion (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28539.0.html).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on August 17, 2013, 07:29:20 PM
ESPN just did a short courtside interview with Western-Southern CEO John Barrett about the tennis tournament, and he threw in a huge compliment to downtown saying how great and alive it is with all the new investment going on. McEnroe then went on to say how great the tennis center is.  Nice props for Cincy!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: KyleCincy on August 21, 2013, 09:55:13 AM
Cincinnati fights its way back into hearts of hip and trendy (photo gallery)

Published: Saturday, June 02, 2012, 9:00 AM
Susan Glaser, The Plain Dealer By Susan Glaser, The Plain Dealer
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2012/06/two_days_in_the_city_cincinnat.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on August 21, 2013, 10:16:26 AM
^Wow!  I wish the people writing for the Enquirer thought as highly of Cincinnati as she does.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on August 27, 2013, 11:27:13 AM
Here is an article by the Urbanophile (http://www.urbanophile.com/2013/08/27/is-cincinnati-at-an-inflection-point/)

Quote
Cincinnati, like most older cities, has experienced a long period of population and economic decline, especially relative to its overall region (i.e., sprawl). Looking at recent trends in the city, I’ve been prompted to ask whether or not it has hit an inflection point where decline has been halted and a new growth cycle of sorts is underway...

...Last time I was there I just generally got the feeling that the wind was back in the city’s sails. Time will tell if this is the start of a real trend or whether it is just a bump created by unsustainable public investment and a change in national trends. Given the high quality “bones” of the city, Cincinnati is one of the place I’d be watching to see if post-industrial cities can really pull off a turnaround.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 06, 2013, 08:41:21 PM
Pure Romance picks downtown Cincinnati HQ site: EXCLUSIVE
Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

   

Citing downtown and Over-the-Rhine’s revitalization, Pure Romance Inc. expects to move its headquarters into Delta Air Lines' reservations center at 655 Plum St., said CEO Chris Cicchinelli in an interview.

“We’ve found a location that we like,” Cicchinelli said. “We’re excited about what’s happening with all of the movement at The Banks and OTR.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/09/06/pure-romance-picks-downtown-cincinnati.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/09/06/pure-romance-picks-downtown-cincinnati.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on September 06, 2013, 10:02:28 PM
^ So it's like Avon for sex toys, lube, etc.?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: northsider on September 07, 2013, 12:03:02 AM
It's more like Tupperware parties, where one lady has her friends come over and invites a PR sales person.  It turns out that if you make them feel comfortable, middle-aged suburban women will totally buy all sorts of sex toys.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on September 07, 2013, 10:25:35 AM
I infiltrated one once because I had to drop something off at some girl's place in college and nobody told me it was happening. And one time I went to an open mic in Milford where one was going on upstairs. I don't think I played at that one or else I probably would have said "hey dildo chicks" into the PA.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on September 07, 2013, 10:38:55 AM
^Sing your songs in German, then suddenly switch to "conversational english":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDs8bw34ivM
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on September 07, 2013, 10:56:37 AM
Haha, that's the kinda song where if you covered it the bar owner or open mic host would be like, "You know, that song was kind of blunt and weird, especially the part with the flanger." Then you'd tell him it was a Frank Zappa song and he'd be like "Oh, OK that's cool then."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on October 24, 2013, 10:44:53 AM

This is a great letter from David Falk, owner of Boca Restaurant Group regarding Cincinnati...

Love Letters: Cincinnati
Posted: 10/23/2013 7:40 am


Chef David Falk, who owns and operates three restaurants as part of his Boca Restaurant Group, has lived and honed his craft at restaurants in Chicago, Rome and Florence. A graduate of the Culinary Institute of America, Falk moved home to Cincinnati in September 2001 and opened Boca, his first restaurant. Falk lives perched above downtown in the historic Prospect Hill neighborhood.


Italianate: an architectural style familiar to Cincinnatians, to me, this word means history, it means culture and the effect of row after row of rooftops overlooking the city I have called my home for so many years now. In the mid 19th century, you were the third largest city in America teeming with breweries, meat packing plants, and soap making facilities, yarn-spinners, potters, drunks, millionaires, future presidents, and every kind of immigrant imaginable. This is the kind of city I wanted to find when I left for New York, Chicago and later Rome. I wanted to be among the romantics, the artists, the students of the good life. I spent ten years searching for something I found almost immediately upon returning. Sometimes moving forward requires going back.

I am a chef. I am a restaurateur. It's what I do and I love doing it. I believe the same things that make a great restaurant make a great city: the connection between a vision and the people that carry it out, the structures that seem to rise from the mind to the sky and the progress of those who create them. Cincinnati, you are a city of creators. Restaurants, like cities, would not exist without the tireless ones, the ones that spend every ounce of energy toiling to make them great because they believe in the vision of visionaries.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/love-letters/love-letters-cincinnati_b_4017680.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/love-letters/love-letters-cincinnati_b_4017680.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on October 24, 2013, 04:48:28 PM
Moved the Metrobot discussion here: Cincinnati: Return of the Metrobot (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28747.0.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on February 21, 2014, 04:38:12 PM
Cincinnati receives rave review in National Geographic
A story from the April 2014 issue of National Geographic raves about the clash of history and excitement of change that’s on the rise in Cincinnati.
Erin Caproni Digital Producer- Cincinnati Business Courier



From the historic breweries to the beauty of Smale Riverfront Park and back to the revitalized Over-the-Rhine, a National Geographic traveler was blown away by Cincinnati during his visit, and now he’s telling the world about it.

A story from the April 2014 issue of the publication tells about the clash of history and excitement of change that’s on the rise in Cincinnati. Writer Andrew Nelson vividly described the sights and sounds of the Queen City and made a case for travelers to give it a try.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/02/cincinnati-receives-rave-review-in.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/02/cincinnati-receives-rave-review-in.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 21, 2014, 06:32:03 PM
Cincinnati receives rave review in National Geographic
A story from the April 2014 issue of National Geographic raves about the clash of history and excitement of change that’s on the rise in Cincinnati.
Erin Caproni Digital Producer- Cincinnati Business Courier



From the historic breweries to the beauty of Smale Riverfront Park and back to the revitalized Over-the-Rhine, a National Geographic traveler was blown away by Cincinnati during his visit, and now he’s telling the world about it.

A story from the April 2014 issue of the publication tells about the clash of history and excitement of change that’s on the rise in Cincinnati. Writer Andrew Nelson vividly described the sights and sounds of the Queen City and made a case for travelers to give it a try.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/02/cincinnati-receives-rave-review-in.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/02/cincinnati-receives-rave-review-in.html)

I spent most of an afternoon with this reporter.  We went around to various bad parts of town like the West End and we cruised McMicken St.  He was from New Orleans so he wasn't spooked.  Really nice and enthusiastic guy. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Brutus_buckeye on February 21, 2014, 09:52:18 PM
Jake - was this the author's first visit to Cincinnati?

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 22, 2014, 12:40:56 AM
I can't remember, but definitely his first visit in at least 15-20 years.  He was about 50 years old.  He told me he was going to come up and visit a second time before he finished the article but I don't know if he did or not. 

He was baffled by the lack of redevelopment of the 19th century homes that remain in dilapidated condition in the West End.  He asked me how much they were selling for and when I told him "that one over there is probably $40,000" he didn't believe me.  The realtor sign had one of those things you can scan with your phone and sure enough the listing was almost dead-on at $40,000.  I told him he was the 999th writer to visit Cincinnati since the 1970s who walked away with the exact same impressions. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: KyleCincy on February 22, 2014, 01:22:36 AM
I can't remember, but definitely his first visit in at least 15-20 years.  He was about 50 years old.  He told me he was going to come up and visit a second time before he finished the article but I don't know if he did or not. 

He was baffled by the lack of redevelopment of the 19th century homes that remain in dilapidated condition in the West End.  He asked me how much they were selling for and when I told him "that one over there is probably $40,000" he didn't believe me.  The realtor sign had one of those things you can scan with your phone and sure enough the listing was almost dead-on at $40,000.  I told him he was the 999th writer to visit Cincinnati since the 1970s who walked away with the exact same impressions. 
some of those homes in bad shape might lag in redevelopment due to the pretty large city west development. That is a sizable development.
And now with all of the OTR options there is competition. I think the success in OTR has kept pricing in check in Mt. Adams. Anyway good job John.
Did the writer find you from your website?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jdm00 on February 27, 2014, 08:57:13 PM
I'm telling you, the West End is in a prime spot if redevelopment ever gets going there.  Amazing housing stock.  It's a shame that it's probably being lost as we speak. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 27, 2014, 09:38:25 PM
I'm telling you, the West End is in a prime spot if redevelopment ever gets going there.  Amazing housing stock.  It's a shame that it's probably being lost as we speak. 

I've thought more than once about buying a $5,000 empty lot somewhere over there in case it ever does get hot.  The property tax on something valued under $10,000 is negligible. 

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jdm00 on February 27, 2014, 09:42:01 PM
If I had the money to do that kind of thing, I definitely would. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on February 28, 2014, 08:16:23 PM
The trouble with the West End in my opinion, at least nearer to Central Parkway and north of Liberty, is the marginal industrial uses that pepper the neighborhood.  I have no objection to the mixture of uses, but the problem here is that there's a number of newer (i.e. post-war) concrete block boxes and scruffy lots with chain-link fences.  The preponderance of ugly buildings, loading docks, unkempt storage yards, and tractor trailer storage makes it more difficult to try to build or redevelop residential uses.  It's by no means impossible, but OTR is low-hanging fruit in comparison.  West of Linn Street the building stock is more intact and actually quite lovely, but noise from proximity to I-75 becomes a problem.  Again, not insurmountable, but a tough sell when much of OTR is still ripe for redevelopment without those problems to deal with. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 28, 2014, 09:05:54 PM
The trouble with the West End in my opinion, at least nearer to Central Parkway and north of Liberty, is the marginal industrial uses that pepper the neighborhood.  I have no objection to the mixture of uses, but the problem here is that there's a number of newer (i.e. post-war) concrete block boxes and scruffy lots with chain-link fences.  The preponderance of ugly buildings, loading docks, unkempt storage yards, and tractor trailer storage makes it more difficult to try to build or redevelop residential uses.  It's by no means impossible, but OTR is low-hanging fruit in comparison.  West of Linn Street the building stock is more intact and actually quite lovely, but noise from proximity to I-75 becomes a problem.  Again, not insurmountable, but a tough sell when much of OTR is still ripe for redevelopment without those problems to deal with. 

If you want to go over there and start building single family homes there's nothing stopping you.  The problem is that a new home hasn't been built in that area in about 120 years so it would be very difficult to sell the first one but not the 20th one if you've already sold 19.  Someone with the money to float construction of 20 homes knows there are a lot easier ways to make money with that money.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on February 28, 2014, 09:20:52 PM
^ Right but even if you built 20 homes, unless you do it in a tight-knit cluster and luck out with your lot selection (certainly possible, just difficult) then many if not most of those houses are going to be facing an auto parts lot, some gravel parking lot, or other unsightly use.  It's easy to infill when the built environment is mostly intact, or there's an understandable rhythm in place.  Even different industrial-type buildings aren't a problem so much when they have windows that aren't bricked up and the building addresses the street in a similar manner to the houses. 

The problem is when you have stuff like this on the other side of the street or next to your property:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.118165,-84.524854,3a,75y,179.78h,72.17t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sC7a0z6wMERQDAEWoya76CA!2e0

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.114722,-84.52502,3a,75y,2.89h,76.8t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6vtLZ9A3yLNHL3bWglbjwg!2e0

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.11699,-84.525125,3a,75y,217.58h,82.88t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sNjiBco0JUN6c8RF1avg9pQ!2e0

Again, it's not insurmountable in the long run, but there's a chicken and egg problem.  It's hard to be a pioneer when you'll be living in what is basically a low-value industrial wasteland.  On the other hand, if nobody pioneers that area, then those low-value uses will persist. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ColDayMan on February 28, 2014, 10:42:40 PM
But there are plenty of low-value industrial wastelands that have long attracted hipsters/yuppies.  Think LIC or Greenspoint in New York; the emergence of Franklinton in Columbus or the area immediately east of downtown Cleveland; Los Angeles' "Arts District" (which is far more hidious than anything in the West End); Fort Worth's Montgomery Ward area; or more bluntly, most southern cities' up-and-coming yuppie areas that are filled with former factories, endless parking lots, and a Bojangles drive-thru.  I don't think it's chicken-and-the-egg as that has long past; I think it's about who wants to invest first.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: natininja on February 28, 2014, 11:23:47 PM
But there are plenty of low-value industrial wastelands that have long attracted hipsters/yuppies.  Think LIC or Greenspoint in New York; the emergence of Franklinton in Columbus or the area immediately east of downtown Cleveland; Los Angeles' "Arts District" (which is far more hidious than anything in the West End); Fort Worth's Montgomery Ward area; or more bluntly, most southern cities' up-and-coming yuppie areas that are filled with former factories, endless parking lots, and a Bojangles drive-thru.  I don't think it's chicken-and-the-egg as that has long past; I think it's about who wants to invest first.

I agree, but I think Camp Washington is poised to benefit from this before the West End. Especially when you consider the West End is likely to redevelop from OTR overflow, versus Camp Washington likely to redevelop from Northside overflow. Northside hipsters are more likely to embrace the aesthetic than OTR yupsters. Additionally, I think CW doesn't suffer from the levels of crime the West End does, and (while WE does have a lot of vacant lots) you can get further in CW before worrying about displacement of lower income residents.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on February 28, 2014, 11:28:55 PM
^ I agree about Camp Washington.  While it's not without its problems, it at least has some cool enough old industrial buildings that can be repurposed, and actually some pretty cute and surprisingly quiet residential streets.  OTR has a handful of nice old brewery buildings as well that can be reused for just about anything.  The West End seems to be saddled with mostly newer industrial crap that's not so great for retrofitting.  The exceptions are a handful of buildings near I-75 where the housing stock is more intact too, and the two great old school buildings. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 14, 2014, 10:49:56 PM
Tech company moves from suburbs to Over-the-Rhine
Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



Neo.com is moving from Sharonville to the Hanke Building in Over-the-Rhine, a move the building’s owner hailed as another example of Cincinnati’s reurbanization.

Neo.com is an international technology company focused on customized computer programming and development and user-interface design. It has offices in San Francisco, New York, Columbus, Edinburgh, Singapore and Uruguay.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/04/14/tech-company-moves-from-suburbs-to-over-the-rhine.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/04/14/tech-company-moves-from-suburbs-to-over-the-rhine.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on April 15, 2014, 12:17:21 AM
While the article didn't mention the number of jobs, their website shows 10 employees in the Cincinnati office.

http://www.neo.com/offices/cincinnati (http://www.neo.com/offices/cincinnati)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 17, 2014, 10:22:25 PM
Website coming to help workers, residents navigate downtown construction
Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

With seemingly every part of downtown Cincinnati under construction, the city will launch a new website soon to help guide people through it all.

RoadmapCincy.com is not live yet, but will be in the next week or so.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/04/17/website-coming-to-help-workers-residents-navigate.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/04/17/website-coming-to-help-workers-residents-navigate.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on April 17, 2014, 10:27:34 PM
^Is it just me, or does the hassle of road construction get blown way out of proportion? It honestly isn't that bad...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: hoerstw on April 17, 2014, 10:52:21 PM
i would agree... People get so mad if it takes an additional 3 minutes to get on the highway than it would normally.  DunnHumby and the hotel on 4th decrease traffic by one lane, which would likely be taken up by parked cars anyway... so really its a net 0.  Just something to complain about.

And traffic congestion is Cranleys "number 1 priority" right now so at least we have that going for us.

For developments sake, lets hope these construction "problems" continue for years to come..
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JohnClevesSymmes on April 18, 2014, 05:01:40 PM
I don't normally drive based on my home/office proximity, but yesterday I had to leave the basin for an appointment mid-day. When I returned, I foolishly hopped on to Walnut street and proceeded to sit for about 20 minutes. I think an app would be pretty helpful, since most of the streets are fine.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on April 18, 2014, 06:27:01 PM
^Walnut is the worst with this construction.  Not only does seemingly every bus in the city converge on Walnut, it's also a major feeder to 71, and goes right by the Aronoff (always a cluster**** around show time), 21C (which removed a lane for their drop-off/pick up area), and later the ballpark.  It's a disaster if there's an event going on at the CAC as well.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 26, 2014, 05:40:05 PM
City orders removal of Carew's corroded flagpole
CIN 7:40 p.m. EDT April 25, 2014



Two city building inspectors visited the Carew Tower's observation deck Friday morning.

They weren't sightseeing.

They went to the 49th floor of the National Historic Landmark to inspect the tower's original 83-year-old flagpole.

The Enquirer's new Need to Know feature on April 20 showed the pole's poor condition.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/your-watchdog/2014/04/25/city-orders-removal-carews-corroded-flagpole/8174559/ (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/your-watchdog/2014/04/25/city-orders-removal-carews-corroded-flagpole/8174559/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on May 05, 2014, 02:13:56 PM
EXCLUSIVE: PwC to relocate downtown Cincinnati operations
Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP, one of the largest accounting firms in Greater Cincinnati, is moving its more than 200 employees to PNC Center in the heart of the central business district from the Sawyer Point Building along Pete Rose Way.

PwC signed a nearly 11-year lease for more than 29,400 square feet of space in PNC Center. PwC is taking the entire 23rd floor and three quarters of the 24th floor, space formerly leased by Frost Brown Todd. The accounting firm will be the second-largest tenant in the building, behind namesake PNC.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/05/05/exclusive-pwc-to-relocate-downtown-cincinnati.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/05/05/exclusive-pwc-to-relocate-downtown-cincinnati.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on May 23, 2014, 05:24:23 PM

Landscape architects trade West Chester for Downtown
Erin Caproni Digital Producer- Cincinnati Business Courier



The Kleingers Group moved its landscape architecture studio into its downtown Cincinnati office from West Chester.

Business development director Jay Stewart said the department’s move from the suburbs to a loft-like space at 652 Main St. has been a smooth transition.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/05/23/landscape-architects-trade-west-chester-for.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/05/23/landscape-architects-trade-west-chester-for.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on July 24, 2014, 05:56:21 PM

Cool Places: Go inside Pure Romance's stylish new downtown headquarters
Lisa Benson Managing Editor- Cincinnati Business Courier


Stepping inside the lobby of Pure Romance, you could easily imagine being inside the living room of a really stylish girlfriend.

The entry way, as well as the entire office, is decorated in a palette of cool greys, fuschia and crystal.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/07/24/cool-places-go-inside-pure-romances-stylish-new.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/07/24/cool-places-go-inside-pure-romances-stylish-new.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on July 28, 2014, 01:18:25 PM
A couple photos from the top of Carew Tower from last week.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: hoerstw on August 05, 2014, 10:54:08 AM
Saw a tweet from Downtown Cincinnati (@DowntownCincy) saying that construction is underway to put Metrobot backup by the Contemporary Arts Center.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on August 05, 2014, 03:01:24 PM
Tech company moves from suburbs to Over-the-Rhine
Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier


http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/04/14/tech-company-moves-from-suburbs-to-over-the-rhine.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/04/14/tech-company-moves-from-suburbs-to-over-the-rhine.html)

Rumor is this move is off as Neo.com has decided to close the Cincinnati office.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on August 13, 2014, 10:20:26 AM
DCI has a survey about Downtown Cincinnati you can take here: http://www.dcisurvey.com/ (http://www.dcisurvey.com/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on August 19, 2014, 04:58:56 PM

Two downtown Cincinnati office buildings up for sale
Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



The owners of two downtown Cincinnati office buildings are putting the properties up for sale.

A joint venture managed by Nashville-based Smith/Hallemann Partners and comprised of Nashville investors and a fund managed by Harbert Management Corp. is marketing 312 Plum and 312 Elm, home of the Cincinnati Enquirer, for sale. According to Real Estate Alert, the buildings are expected to sell for up to $110 million combined, or about $180 per square foot.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/08/19/two-downtown-cincinnati-office-buildings-up-for.html?page=all (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/08/19/two-downtown-cincinnati-office-buildings-up-for.html?page=all)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 17, 2014, 05:59:27 PM

EXCLUSIVE: Big Cincinnati accounting firm moving downtown
Sep 17, 2014, 2:46pm EDT
Steve Watkins Staff Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



Cincinnati accounting firm Battelle Rippe Kingston is moving downtown after nearly 40 years perched on the hill in Mount Adams.

The firm’s move is a direct result of its acquisition by Chicago-based McGladrey LLP, the nation’s fifth-largest accounting firm, and the growth it expects to achieve locally. It announced that deal Tuesday.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/09/17/exclusive-big-cincinnati-accounting-firm-moving.html?ana=twt&page=all (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/09/17/exclusive-big-cincinnati-accounting-firm-moving.html?ana=twt&page=all)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on September 22, 2014, 12:42:07 PM

Another big Cincinnati accounting firm moving into downtown office
Sep 22, 2014, 12:53pm EDT
Steve Watkins Staff Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier


For the second time in two weeks, a big Cincinnati accounting firm is making the move downtown.

This one involves the opening of a new office. SS&G, one of Cincinnati’s 20 largest accounting firms, actually opened a second local office on Sept. 8. That’s when it added a location on the first floor of Atrium II on Fourth Street, said Brian Berning, managing director of SS&G’s downtown Cincinnati office.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/09/22/another-big-cincinnati-accounting-firm-moving-into.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/09/22/another-big-cincinnati-accounting-firm-moving-into.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on October 03, 2014, 03:09:03 PM

EXCLUSIVE: Fast-growing Blue Ash business relocating to downtown Cincinnati
Oct 3, 2014, 2:57pm EDT
Tom Demeropolis  Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



Gaslight LLC, a custom software development company, is moving its offices to downtown Cincinnati from Blue Ash.

The fast-growing company signed a seven-year lease for 9,000 square feet of space at the Pinger Building, located at 708 Walnut St. Gaslight will fill two floors of the seven-story building, double the amount of space the company leased at 11126 Kenwood Road.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/03/exclusive-fast-growing-blue-ash-business.html?page=all (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/03/exclusive-fast-growing-blue-ash-business.html?page=all)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on October 21, 2014, 11:11:48 AM
Cincinnati hotel named best in Midwest, No. 2 in nation
Oct 21, 2014, 11:23am EDT
Erin Caproni Digital Producer- Cincinnati Business Courier


The 21c Museum Hotel Cincinnati has been named the best hotel in the Midwest and No. 2 in the U.S. by the 2014 Conde Nast Traveler Readers' Choice Awards.

The boutique hotel also ranked No. 29 in the world in the survey, which tallied more than 1 million votes from nearly 77,000 participants. The rankings are based on quality of rooms, service, food and dining, location, and overall design.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/21/cincinnati-hotel-named-best-in-midwest-no-2-in.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/21/cincinnati-hotel-named-best-in-midwest-no-2-in.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on October 23, 2014, 02:07:09 PM
Wells Fargo moving employees out of Kroger Building
Oct 23, 2014, 2:27pm EDT
Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



Wells Fargo & Co. is moving 62 employees to the Sawyer Point Building in downtown Cincinnati from the Kroger Building at 1014 Vine St.

Wells Fargo signed a five-year lease for about 19,000 square feet of space at the Sawyer Point Building, located at 720 E. Pete Rose Way. The San Francisco-based company is moving its commercial banking and insurance offices to the fourth floor in mid-November.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/23/wells-fargo-moving-employees-out-of-kroger.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/23/wells-fargo-moving-employees-out-of-kroger.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on October 31, 2014, 02:48:21 PM
EDIT: There's a thread for the 309 Vine project at: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,27413.0.html

EXCLUSIVE: Huge downtown Cincinnati office building to become mixed-use development
Oct 31, 2014, 2:24pm EDT
Tom Demeropolis


One of the largest office buildings in downtown Cincinnati is about to get new life as a mixed-use development.
Village Green Cos. purchased 309 Vine from 3rd & Vine Partners LLC. The company is one of the largest developers, owners and managers of luxury apartment communities in the nation. Village Green will redevelop the 300,000-square-foot, 1920s era, "Beaux Arts" building, with a planned opening in 2016. Plans for the building include luxury apartments, penthouses, a market, restaurant, offices and a new name for the building.

More at: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/31/exclusive-huge-downtown-cincinnati-office-building.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2014-10-31&u=jwmf03J%209tCeITf%206kZ15A0e430e28&t=1414783152&page=all (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/31/exclusive-huge-downtown-cincinnati-office-building.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2014-10-31&u=jwmf03J%209tCeITf%206kZ15A0e430e28&t=1414783152&page=all)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on October 31, 2014, 05:05:57 PM
All of this is great news for downtown. We continue to see older office space being converted into residential. Meanwhile, we're adding GE, Kroger is expanding, and a new Western Southern office tower will likely be built in the next decade. It's only a matter of time before the vacant lots downtown start to be built upon.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on October 31, 2014, 05:20:18 PM
All of this is great news for downtown. We continue to see older office space being converted into residential. Meanwhile, we're adding GE, Kroger is expanding, and a new Western Southern office tower will likely be built in the next decade. It's only a matter of time before the vacant lots downtown start to be built upon.

Well for all of the commotion over the past 10 years, only three of DT Cincinnati's 50+ surface lots have been built on: 4th & Central, 4th & Sycamore, and 5th & Race.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jim uber on October 31, 2014, 05:38:06 PM

All of this is great news for downtown. We continue to see older office space being converted into residential. Meanwhile, we're adding GE, Kroger is expanding, and a new Western Southern office tower will likely be built in the next decade. It's only a matter of time before the vacant lots downtown start to be built upon.

Well for all of the commotion over the past 10 years, only three of DT Cincinnati's 50+ surface lots have been built on: 4th & Central, 4th & Sycamore, and 5th & Race.

Commotion over the last ten years?  Ten years ago was 2004 Jake, between "the great civil unrest" and "the Great Recession", and near the end of "the great downtown boycott".

Really, we are at the beginning of the significant reinvestment in our core and I doubt the next ten years will resemble the last.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on October 31, 2014, 11:11:00 PM
Indeed. It seems pretty clear that things are just starting to ramp up. Major new developments are being announced every few months. Private developers are starting to get the picture.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on November 01, 2014, 03:24:27 AM
The trend back toward urban dwelling has clear momentum.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 03, 2014, 01:07:21 AM

All of this is great news for downtown. We continue to see older office space being converted into residential. Meanwhile, we're adding GE, Kroger is expanding, and a new Western Southern office tower will likely be built in the next decade. It's only a matter of time before the vacant lots downtown start to be built upon.

Well for all of the commotion over the past 10 years, only three of DT Cincinnati's 50+ surface lots have been built on: 4th & Central, 4th & Sycamore, and 5th & Race.

Commotion over the last ten years?  Ten years ago was 2004 Jake, between "the great civil unrest" and "the Great Recession", and near the end of "the great downtown boycott".

Really, we are at the beginning of the significant reinvestment in our core and I doubt the next ten years will resemble the last.

Sorry, by "commotion" I meant the 3CDC revival of OTR + millennial cheerleading.  I did not mean all of that nonsense that went on in the early 2000s. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on November 03, 2014, 07:35:23 AM
And yet we have thousands of new residents in Downtown and in OTR, dozens and dozens of rehabbed buildings (hundreds possibly), new construction along the river, proposed highrises, a new tallest office tower in the skyline, dozens of new businesses drawing people everyday of the week Downtown where there was nothing happening even 5 or 6 years ago. The streetcar is well underway. Private developers are springing up all over the place. Home prices have gotten to the point where less and less incentives are needed to turn a profit. We're getting recognition from all over the place. Parking lots being built upon isn't the only sign of things happening. We have so many existing buildings in need of help that I'd rather see fixed up before parking lots built upon so we don't lose them and the character they bring to our city.

Do you ever look at the positives? Ever? You make it out as if there has just been a bunch of hype but nothing has happened.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on November 03, 2014, 08:38:54 AM
Honestly, despite 3CDC and the city having a big vision for downtown and OTR, I don't think that most people felt the plan would work until about 2011 or so. I think we're just now starting to see the repercussions of the positive momentum that has been started.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on November 03, 2014, 01:59:24 PM
I actually kind of agree with jmeck on this one.  I joined this forum back in 04/05, and it felt like there were some really great things happening back then that were going to turn the city around.  New stadiums for the Bengals and Reds, the Freedom Center, UC's Main Street project, Convention Center expansion, Newport on the Levee, growth of the Covington riverfront, etc.  While all (ok, most) of those projects have had a positive effect on Cincinnati, we are still waiting to turn the proverbial corner.  Certainly OTR's renaissance has been impressive, and there are a lot of projects underway that are going to make Cincinnati a better place, but I just think it's pointless to think that Cincinnati is ever going to become some sort of boom town, or that these individual developments are going to lead to some great turning point for the city. That's not how things work here.  I predict that over the next ten years, growth and development will happen slowly and steadily downtown, as it has been for the past twenty years. The politics and mindset of this region favor stability and familiarity, and real, substantial growth requires boldness and a willingness to think big and try new ideas.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on November 03, 2014, 02:02:18 PM
And the exact best way to kill future potential is to think that we can't do something.

Boom and bust cycles aren't good for longterm growth and aren't what we should be striving for anyway.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on November 03, 2014, 02:20:25 PM
I agree with edale in the sense that Cincinnati is not going to suddenly become a boom town again. I think that is a very rare thing these days (Denver did it with the huge expansion of airport and some of the sun belt cities did it with the housing bubble, but that wasn't very sustainable). I think we are and will continue to see an increase in the pace of redevelopment in the urban areas of Cincinnati (OTR, Walnut Hills, Uptown, Covington, etc).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on November 03, 2014, 02:35:15 PM
@jmicha  It's more of a resetting of expectations for me.  I used to be very optimistic about Cincinnati's chances of 'making it big' for lack of a better expression.  After closely following development in this city for a decade, I just don't think that is trajectory that Cincinnati will ever take.  I still like the city, and will always think it has all the potential in the world to be great, but I have just had to temper my expectations for what is possible here.  Part of this is because I moved away from this city, and lived in cities that are/have experienced real development booms, and what is happening in Cincinnati just doesn't stack up in any way.  I mean, think of this: There are currently two new construction residential projects underway right now in downtown.  The Banks phase 2, and the 7th and Broadway apartments.  Both of these projects were planned, proposed, and rendered for a decade+ before actually getting built.  The much anticipated redevelopment of 5th and Race, long thought to be the preeminent development site in Downtown, is going to be a squat 8 story (half of which is parking) building with no residential component, and an office user that is simply relocating from another downtown location.  The 4th and Race tower is in limbo.  The proposed tower over Macy's has been awfully quiet since it was floated as an idea a year or so ago.  Hell, it's taken damn near a decade to figure out how to build a freakin' Holiday Inn on 7th street. 

I'm not trying to be negative.  I know that development proposals come and go everywhere, and that re/development often takes a long time.  I'm just trying to say that it has become evident to me that Cincinnati will likely never reach the potential I see for it, despite the efforts of many.  With a Mayor like Cranley (and a populace who voted him into office in a landslide), a County that has an antagonistic (at best) relationship with the city, and a state that has to divide urban resources 6 ways yet still thinks itself as rural, what shot do we really have for a substantial turn around or another boom period?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on November 03, 2014, 02:39:54 PM
There's nothing wrong with stepping back and taking a reasoned look at the broader picture.  Just look what happened to Chicago.  They were all ra-ra on the Loop and north side neighborhoods but still ended up losing population in the last census.  How many cities posted increasing population after the massive depopulation of the late 20th century only to drop again?  The reason that happened is because while the Loop and north side are certainly very important for the city, they still could not overcome the catastrophic decline of the west and south sides of the city, which make up some 80% of the land area within the city limits.  Rampant NIMBY-ism in those wealthy north side neighborhoods have actually caused their populations to decline too as new construction is fought and occupancies decrease as housing units move more and more upmarket.  New York and San Francisco have similar problems.  The desirable neighborhoods can't densify to satisfy demand, and nobody wants to live in the undesirable neighborhoods. 

The same thing could happen in Cincinnati.  Mt. Adams, Hyde Park, and Mt. Lookout are already pretty much frozen in amber, and OTR could very well end up being completely fixed up without significantly changing its total population.  Many of the outer neighborhoods (not to mention several inner neighborhoods) are already pretty sketchy and not particularly desirable from a redevelopment standpoint.  If they begin to go down the toilet then no matter how nice downtown, OTR, Walnut Hills, and the rest of Uptown might get, it won't be enough to overcome that.  Now I'll be the first to say that having a smaller denser strong core is more important than having strong low-density outer neighborhoods, because the core supports the outer neighborhoods financially, not vice versa.  The political manipulation that pits the neighborhoods against the core are disgusting, but it works because the population of those neighborhoods is much larger than the core of the city, in the same way that the population of the suburbs is much larger than the city itself.  So the problems in Westwood, Bond Hill, Kennedy Heights, and Madisonville can't simply be ignored or else they will come back to bite the city later on. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jim uber on November 03, 2014, 02:46:07 PM
I have lived in OTR for the last 5 years, in downtown before that, and there has been a sea change just in the last year, in terms of properties being redeveloped. I just don't see how it's possible to deny that, unless you don't spend time walking through OTR (and not just along vine street...).

It used to be that you'd know every single property being redeveloped just by reading the business courier or urbanohio. No way you can do that now. I lose track... see buildings that are in full scale renovation regularly that I had no idea about. Like, I didn't even realize the entire half block of 13th adjacent to washington park was now completely done. Jus hadn't noticed. North of liberty used to be an area that everyone was super pessimistic about. 3CDC won't go there so... let's just draw the boundary. That attitude has completely changed in the last year. There has been huge interest in the 30 or so properties being handled by 3CDC for private development.

Seriously, I just don't know how to say it with any more effect. This isn't a "boom" but it's the biggest surge of redevelopment I've witnessed anywhere near the urban core in the last 25 years. (I'm not counting the banks cause... I don't want to.) To have anything else than full-on enthusiasm about the coming decade would be just ... Cincinnati. Fortunately the people actually doing the work don't know that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 03, 2014, 04:23:21 PM
While things could certainly move faster, and as always "Cincinnati can be its own worst enemy" in regard to change, along with people like Cranley, I am happy with the way things are proceeding.  There have been many stumbles and lost opportunities I would like to get back, but Cincinnati has never been a City/market to dive in head first.  Contrarily, as stated in several places above, rampant growth brings its own set of problems.  Everyone uses Denver as an example and, having lived there in the mid and late 90s, it was definitely a mixed bag.  The upswing in downtown Denver is amazing, but as here, there was a massive amount of public money put into making that happen.  Denver though already had a strong influx of new residents from other parts of the country to help fill all the new development.  You also have to realize that all that development brought the usual ills...traffic in Denver sucks and got noticeably worse the five years I was there and I didn't even have to commute that far, house prices shot through the roof and are still very high, and having driven through Denver a few years ago while moving to Oregon, I was astounded at the sprawl on the front range, it was disgusting and plenty of residents really lament the sprawl (as they did in the 90s saying "we continue to use L.A. as our development model").  So, that being said, I am a big proponent of slower and steadier growth for Cincinnati (even though I wish it was a little faster and had more of Denver's "can do" spirit instead of having leadership that looks for reasons not to do things.

Finally, before I get off my soap box, I also agree that people have a short memory regarding the developments of the last 25 years or so.  Great things were happening "prior to 2005" or before the stadia in the mid 90s (albeit sometimes slower and less consistently).  Going back to the late 80s, there was the redevelopment of Piatt Park with the Gramercy and the Greenwich which really jump started the large scale residential projects downtown.  In the early 90s there was a mini-boom of office space with 312 Elm, 312 Walnut, Chemed Center and others.  In the mid 90s buildings on West. 4th St., the Aronoff Center and Backstage District came on which really incentivized a lot of private owners to update their buildings as well adding to the commercial and residential options.  Finally, people were at that time revitalizing buildings in OTR, it was usually just one offs and didn't garner a lot of attention. 

Rant ended....
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on November 03, 2014, 09:27:51 PM
By national standards Cincinnati's development is slow and steady (though OTR is gentrifying at a rapid clip even on a national scale).

The changes in Cincinnati have been monumental by its own perverse standards let me review a few things that have changed:

1) Emergence of a hip new restaurant scene (hat tip to Senate and Taste of Belgium for this) - most of the restaurants in the Gateway part of OTR are at a level that is well above the standard for Cincinnati as a whole and this is a good thing.  I never thought a place that would be as well designed as Kaze would be in Cincy, or I'd be eating food as exotic as Okonomiyaki at Quan Hapa, or gourmet tacos of the quality one would find at Big Star in Chicago down there at Bakersfield.

2) Breweries - Cincinnati is reclaiming a lost brewing heritage with a vengeance, its been slow to start but I really get the feeling that people down there are owning it.  The Brewery district, the stuff Christian Moerlien and Rhiengeist have done are very impressive.  Rhiengeist even has plans to add a rooftop bar, and integrate A Tavola into its lower level, how cool is that?

3) Younger people with more of a "can do attitude" - I honestly think there is a generational shift afoot, younger people are more questioning of the status quo and are starting to talk to each other in ways I haven't seen largely due to new forums for discussion (like this one for instance or urban cincy or facebook etc).  There are now tours in OTR, I saw a guide made by city beat trying to sell the city to outsiders, I've seen the emergence of tours of beer tunnels and more people talking about preservation as an actual issue.

4) Loss of some social conservatism - There now is a openly gay council member, article 12 was turned down, the idiot group for family values is no longer active like they were just 7 or 8 years ago.  I don't see another Mapplethorpe happening, in fact if you've noticed the exhibits at the 21C museum there are a ton which that particular group would have been up in arms about.  Not a peep from them and that's amazing progress.

5) Fights to make things better actually being won.   The streetcar is the biggest example of this, the old Cincinnati I knew would have defeated it the first time it was challenged, or at the very least it would have died when Cranley tried to kill it.  There was a massive revolt which was part of a broader cultural revolution which is taking place that killed it. (Only reason Qualls lost was that she ran a bad campaign - if she built a stronger coalition, got more people to vote, and was a little nastier Cranley would have been toast).  There are plenty of others, look at the furniture building at 12th and main.  In the old Cincy it would have been torn down by now, but just today that was denied and Stough is going to have to sell.  OTR is more unified and more active than ever and this is something that will over time spread to more of the city.

6) A much improved music scene.  My brother told me about the flaming lips coming to bunbury, they never used to come to Cincinnati.  Ditto with MPMF, its really grown and is starting to attract outside attention.  A few new venues have popped up to to foster this.

Change is hard esp when so many are resistant to it, but I'm actually very optimistic for Cincy, which is a hell of a lot more than I could have said for the city 8 years ago when frankly I felt it would stew in its own misery and kill itself.   The change has been so fast btw, that a ton of people don't understand how to handle it, some people think Cincy is right now in a SF style gentrification crisis (lol) others literally are like oh the streetcar won't get built etc etc.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on November 03, 2014, 10:14:52 PM
All of this is great news for downtown. We continue to see older office space being converted into residential. Meanwhile, we're adding GE, Kroger is expanding, and a new Western Southern office tower will likely be built in the next decade. It's only a matter of time before the vacant lots downtown start to be built upon.

Well for all of the commotion over the past 10 years, only three of DT Cincinnati's 50+ surface lots have been built on: 4th & Central, 4th & Sycamore, and 5th & Race.


Going back to the origin of this debate... I don't think that @jmecklenborg was making any sort of negative comment. He was just commenting that with all of the development that has occurred, we have seen surprisingly few parking lots redeveloped.

I think the current trend makes a lot of sense. Businesses are moving into newer, better office space. The owners of older office buildings are responding to this by converting those buildings into residential. Simultaneously, developers are buying up vacant buildings and converting them into residential. I would prefer to see this trend continue until every vacant building downtown is renovated, before we start worrying about building new towers on parking lots downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 07, 2014, 08:50:21 AM
Huntington relocating downtown Cincinnati office
Nov 7, 2014, 5:00am EST Updated: Nov 7, 2014, 6:20am EST
Steve Watkins Staff Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



Huntington National Bank will move its Cincinnati regional headquarters to 525 Vine St. downtown.

Greater Cincinnati's fourth-largest bank was expected to take 50,000 to 60,000 square feet in the building across Vine Street from Fountain Square. The Courier first reported the expected move last October. The bank is anticipated to locate its 155 local employees at the new office.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/07/breaking-huntington-relocating-downtown.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/07/breaking-huntington-relocating-downtown.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 07, 2014, 03:57:07 PM
A little bit of updated info...


Huntington to rename its new downtown Cincinnati HQ
Nov 7, 2014, 2:53pm EST
Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier


 
Huntington National Bank signed a 13-year lease for about 50,000 square feet of space at 525 Vine St.

The bank is relocating its regional headquarters, as well as its operations from Rookwood Tower in Norwood, to the 23-story building. The building will be renamed Huntington Center at 525 Vine, and the bank's name will be installed across the top of the tower on the south and east sides.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/07/huntington-to-rename-its-new-downtown-cincinnati.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/07/huntington-to-rename-its-new-downtown-cincinnati.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on November 14, 2014, 11:47:30 AM
3rd Street may be renamed for Carl Lindner (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2014/11/14/third-street-renamed-carl-h-lindner-way-maybe/19020241/)

Third Street might soon be co-named Carl H. Lindner Way.

Cincinnati Mayor John Cranley exclusively told The Enquirer he will propose renaming the street this week as a way to honor the deceased self-made billionaire whose giving left a lasting impression on the community.

"We miss him, the city missed him," Cranley said. "We are a much better city for what he did both in business by bringing jobs downtown and through his charitable giving."

Cont (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2014/11/14/third-street-renamed-carl-h-lindner-way-maybe/19020241/)

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 14, 2014, 11:53:45 AM
3rd Street may be renamed for Carl Lindner (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2014/11/14/third-street-renamed-carl-h-lindner-way-maybe/19020241/)

Third Street might soon be co-named Carl H. Lindner Way.

Cincinnati Mayor John Cranley exclusively told The Enquirer he will propose renaming the street this week as a way to honor the deceased self-made billionaire whose giving left a lasting impression on the community.

"We miss him, the city missed him," Cranley said. "We are a much better city for what he did both in business by bringing jobs downtown and through his charitable giving."

Cont (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2014/11/14/third-street-renamed-carl-h-lindner-way-maybe/19020241/)




"Behind every great fortune is a great crime".

-Balzac
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: hoerstw on November 14, 2014, 12:10:43 PM
Renaming 3rd for Carl Linder is all fine and great... but i wish they would keep the actual street names down by the Banks as well.. with Rosa Parks and Freedom Way switching from the traditional grid street names it is confusing.

It could be Third Street / Carl Linder
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on November 14, 2014, 12:37:00 PM
Agreed. I'm fine with designating a secondary honorary street name. Completely renaming two blocks of Vine was ridiculous. Thankfully Smale Riverfront Park is still calling this portion of the park the Vine Street Steps.

And why select 3rd St. for this honor? Entrances to AFG businesses/buildings are all on 4th St...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 14, 2014, 12:45:50 PM
Maybe they have their eyes on a more modest prize so they're making this outlandish proposal in order to make their true target seem more sensible.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on November 14, 2014, 12:58:11 PM
Why DCI believes perceptions of downtown dropped last year (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/13/why-dci-believes-perceptions-of-downtown-dropped.html)
Chris Wetterich - Staff reporter - Cincinnati Business Courier


Perceptions of downtown slid this year in Downtown Cincinnati Inc.'s annual survey (http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/docs/default-source/Marketing-Downtown/2014-downtown-perceptions-survey-results_web.pdf?sfvrsn=2), with fewer people saying they have a positive view of both downtown and Over-the-Rhine.

The percentage of people having a negative view of downtown ticked slightly up from 6 percent to 7 percent, while the percentage of people having a positive view dropped from 81 percent to 75 percent. The percentage of people that have a neutral view also increased.

In Over-the-Rhine, the swings were more pronounced. The percentage of people having negative perception rose from 5 percent to 15 percent, while those having a positive impression dropped from 89 percent to 67 percent.

Cont (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/13/why-dci-believes-perceptions-of-downtown-dropped.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Ram23 on November 14, 2014, 01:32:52 PM
^ It's not rocket science, it's because the casino had people fill out the survey for a chance to win $100 to use at the casino. The biggest group of people to do the survey were referred to it by the casino. These are people willing to drop $100 to sit in a chair and pull a lever for half an hour for the chance to win back that $100, so of course they'll take a survey for a 1 in 10000 chance. These are the same people who only come downtown to go to the casino or a Bengals game once every 3 years. Most of them probably didn't realize OTR was across the street when they said it was evil.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on November 14, 2014, 01:39:19 PM
It's no surprise that perceptions of Downtown Cincinnati get worse as you expand the sample size. There are way too many people in the area that never go downtown and the only things they know about Downtown are the hatred and misinformation being spewed by local TV news stations and talk radio. I brought this point up to DCI President David Ginsburg when I interviewed him on The UrbanCincy Podcast (http://www.urbancincy.com/2013/02/episode-15-downtown-cincinnati-inc/), but he was hesitant to say anything bad about the local media.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JohnClevesSymmes on November 14, 2014, 02:15:18 PM
What would actually be helpful is if they continue to target this same group year after year for a survey. If the needle moves on the casino/bengals crowd, that is an interesting data point.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on November 14, 2014, 02:21:34 PM
some of these responses seem a little off:

What do you LOVE about Downtown?

“The Library is amazing, Fountain square
always has something cool going on and it's
my Hometown.... What’s not to love.“

White male, 25-34 age group
Overall Impression of OTR = Very Negative
Overall Impression of CBD = Neutral
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on November 17, 2014, 10:54:19 AM
Wells Fargo moving employees out of Kroger Building
Oct 23, 2014, 2:27pm EDT
Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



Wells Fargo & Co. is moving 62 employees to the Sawyer Point Building in downtown Cincinnati from the Kroger Building at 1014 Vine St.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/23/wells-fargo-moving-employees-out-of-kroger.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/23/wells-fargo-moving-employees-out-of-kroger.html)

A Wells Fargo sign was installed on the south side of the building over the weekend.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on November 18, 2014, 12:09:16 PM
Council is discussing naming Third Street after Carl Lindner this week.  I think they should rename it if the Lindner family offers to put the caps in over Fort Washington Way.  Otherwise keep it 3rd Street. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on November 18, 2014, 12:13:41 PM
Renaming streets is a giant pain in the ass. Make it commemorative at most, call it a day, leave everything else as is. Think of all the businesses and addresses that will now need to be changed. It's pretty inconvenient for people and for very little benefit. Especially since there's zero community input and it's being renamed after a guy with really questionable morals.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 18, 2014, 12:28:29 PM
Lindner made a lot of his money through accounting tricks, abusing regulatory laws, and buying the ear of local politicians and even presidents Nixon and Ford.  Oh, and investing in United Fruit, one of the most notorious companies of all time, and moving them from NYC to Cincinnati where he thought their unethical activities in Central America would escape the media's notice.  When The Enquirer wrote that expose, he responded by shaking the company down for $10 million, getting the reporter run out of town, and getting The Enquirer to agree to never write any criticism of him or his companies ever again.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Ram23 on November 18, 2014, 02:04:59 PM
Lindner made a lot of his money through accounting tricks, abusing regulatory laws, and buying the ear of local politicians and even presidents Nixon and Ford.  Oh, and investing in United Fruit, one of the most notorious companies of all time, and moving them from NYC to Cincinnati where he thought their unethical activities in Central America would escape the media's notice.  When The Enquirer wrote that expose, he responded by shaking the company down for $10 million, getting the reporter run out of town, and getting The Enquirer to agree to never write any criticism of him or his companies ever again.   

The post Chiquita cover-up was mind boggling. The Enquirer ran away tail between legs so quickly that everyone forgets that everything they exposed was true, albeit not that big of a surprise to anyone. That story was just a little bit too soon for the internet to pick up on it and make it blow up. If it would have been a few years later, social media would have gobbled it up and even a special prosecutor wouldn’t have been able to brush it under the rug.   Since we’re renaming all sorts of roads all over the Banks for little to no reason, someone should propose naming an alley somewhere after that reporter.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 18, 2014, 02:36:31 PM
Lindner made a lot of his money through accounting tricks, abusing regulatory laws, and buying the ear of local politicians and even presidents Nixon and Ford.  Oh, and investing in United Fruit, one of the most notorious companies of all time, and moving them from NYC to Cincinnati where he thought their unethical activities in Central America would escape the media's notice.  When The Enquirer wrote that expose, he responded by shaking the company down for $10 million, getting the reporter run out of town, and getting The Enquirer to agree to never write any criticism of him or his companies ever again.   

The post Chiquita cover-up was mind boggling. The Enquirer ran away tail between legs so quickly that everyone forgets that everything they exposed was true, albeit not that big of a surprise to anyone. That story was just a little bit too soon for the internet to pick up on it and make it blow up. If it would have been a few years later, social media would have gobbled it up and even a special prosecutor wouldn’t have been able to brush it under the rug.   Since we’re renaming all sorts of roads all over the Banks for little to no reason, someone should propose naming an alley somewhere after that reporter.

Great point about that coming about just a year or two too early for the internet to go nuts.  I know that journalism students were studying that event at OU in the early 2000s and many held a dim view of The Enquirer because of it. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on November 19, 2014, 06:19:50 PM
City Council approves co-naming of downtown Third Street
Quote
With a unanimous vote at city hall, Third Street will now also be known as Carl H. Linder Way in honor of one of city's greatest philanthropists.

Councilman Seelbach says businesses will not be required to change their address. The street will now be known as both Third Street and Carl H. Linder Way. You could begin seeing those new signs as early as next week.
http://www.fox19.com/story/27431896/city-council-approves-co-naming-of-downtown-third-street

The whole article mis-spells "Lindner" as "Linder". 13 times it's written at "Linder". 0 times it's written as "Lindner".

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Ram23 on November 20, 2014, 08:22:58 AM
City Council approves co-naming of downtown Third Street
Quote
With a unanimous vote at city hall, Third Street will now also be known as Carl H. Linder Way in honor of one of city's greatest philanthropists.

Councilman Seelbach says businesses will not be required to change their address. The street will now be known as both Third Street and Carl H. Linder Way. You could begin seeing those new signs as early as next week.
http://www.fox19.com/story/27431896/city-council-approves-co-naming-of-downtown-third-street

The whole article mis-spells "Lindner" as "Linder". 13 times it's written at "Linder". 0 times it's written as "Lindner".


It looks like they have since corrected 12 of them, though there's still 1 "Linder" floating around in the image caption.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on November 20, 2014, 09:32:24 AM
Also: "Mayor Mark Cranley proposed this week naming Third Street downtown Carl H. Lindner Way...."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: SleepyLeroy on November 20, 2014, 03:56:42 PM
So the Enquirer HQ will be located on Carl Lindner Way now. Ouch, bet they love that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on November 20, 2014, 04:00:29 PM
Maybe there should be a push to have the annual Gay Pride Parade start and end on Carl H. Lindner Way.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on November 20, 2014, 04:19:05 PM
Hardly any of the skyscrapers have 3rd Street addresses. Queen City Square (303 Broadway and 301 4th), Scripps (312 Walnut), Enquirer (312 Elm)...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on November 21, 2014, 05:00:53 PM
EXCLUSIVE: Cincinnati investor buys Carew Tower
Nov 21, 2014, 4:59pm EST
Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



Carew Tower, one of Cincinnati's most iconic buildings, has a new owner.

Greg Power, a Cincinnati native and commercial real estate broker and investor, purchased Belvedere Corp., the local real estate company whose most significant holding is the Carew Tower complex at the corner of Fifth and Vine streets. Financial terms of the agreement were not disclosed.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/21/exclusive-cincinnati-investor-buys-carew-tower.html?page=all (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/21/exclusive-cincinnati-investor-buys-carew-tower.html?page=all)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on January 13, 2015, 08:18:35 AM
Downtown Cincinnati’s blockbuster holiday season by the numbers
Jan 13, 2015, 7:30am EST
Erin Caproni Digital Producer- Cincinnati Business Courier


Tens of thousands of visitors made their way to downtown Cincinnati and Over-the-Rhine to celebrate the holidays in 2014.

Nice weather, new and returning attractions, unique shopping opportunities, and new restaurants contributed to one of the strongest holiday seasons for the urban core in recent history.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/01/downtown-cincinnati-s-blockbuster-holiday-season.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/01/downtown-cincinnati-s-blockbuster-holiday-season.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on February 17, 2015, 12:35:52 PM
312 Elm, Plum buildings sold
Bowdeya Tweh
February 17, 2015


A joint venture of Rubenstein Partners LP, SCP Elm Plum LLC and Parkway Corp. bought the buildings at 312 Elm St. and 312 Plum St. for an undisclosed sum, the companies said Tuesday. The owners plan to renovate the buildings, including the lobbies, streetscapes and other common area spaces.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2015/02/17/elm-plum-sold/23553809/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on February 20, 2015, 11:56:11 AM

Investor interest in downtown office is really picking up!

EXCLUSIVE: Local investors buy historic downtown office building for $3 million
Feb 20, 2015, 11:22am EST
Tom Demeropolis Senior Staff Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier



Ashley Commercial Group purchased a historic downtown office building for $3 million.

An affiliate of the Edgewood-based real estate company purchased the Hooper Building, located at 151 W. Fourth St., on Feb. 18 from Schumacher Dugan Construction Inc. Bill Kreutzjans Jr., partner with Ashley Commercial Group, said there are no plans to make major changes to the more than 100,000-square-foot building.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/02/20/exclusive-local-investors-buy-historic-downtown.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/02/20/exclusive-local-investors-buy-historic-downtown.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on February 24, 2015, 10:00:33 AM
No clue where to post this article from the Inimitable Casey Coston

http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/022415-cincinnati-west-of-alleghenies.aspx?utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Soapdish%3a+Cincinnati+will+always+be+Queen+City+of+the+West&utm_content=%7bEmail_Address%7d&utm_campaign=Answering+the+call+for+social+entrepreneurs
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on February 24, 2015, 02:14:37 PM
After a Crisis Forces Introspection, Cincinnati’s Downtown Finds a Path Forward (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/realestate/cincinnatis-downtown-finds-a-path-forward.html?_r=2)

CINCINNATI — A rapidly growing sector for consumer research, coupled with a boom in construction and redevelopment, is renewing interest in Cincinnati's downtown.

One measure of the city's new relevance is the $85 million Global Operations Center for General Electric, with construction to be finished next year, in the Banks, an 18-acre Ohio riverfront development (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/realestate/commercial/cincinnati-comes-back-to-its-ohio-river-shoreline.html) between the city’s baseball and football stadiums. The 12-story office building and the district will be served by a station stop on the 3.6-mile, $148 million Cincinnati streetcar line (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/23/us/cincinnati-streetcar-plan-pits-desire-for-growth-against-fiscal-restraint.html) that is also expected to open next year.

G.E.’s operations center, one of five the company is developing worldwide, contains first-floor retailing, parking on the second floor and 10 stories of conference and office space, and can house up to 2,000 workers, 1,400 of them new to Cincinnati. The installation serves big development and manufacturing centers that G.E. operates in the United States, including lighting and aviation manufacturing sites in two Ohio cities.

Cont (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/realestate/cincinnatis-downtown-finds-a-path-forward.html?_r=2)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on February 24, 2015, 07:28:55 PM
A good article and publicity overall, but I continue to call bullshit on a few things...

"Cincinnati’s recovery follows three nights of riots in 2001, and a plunge in the number of residents and businesses, after the death of an unarmed black man shot by police. "

Show me one ounce of data where residents left, a few businesses maybe used this as a convenient excuse as to why they were closing up shop.  I continue to maintain my stance that the riots were the most overblown, media driven hype in recent history.  A black eye for the city, certainly.  But every article written about it makes it sound like the LA riots, which were full blown, city-crippling instances.  The ones here pale in a big way in scale, substance, property damage, etc.

"In 2005, Fountain Square, Cincinnati’s deteriorated cultural and economic center, was rebuilt, prompting new office and retail development nearby. "

A little worn, yes, but deteriorated?  Whatever.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 24, 2015, 09:09:59 PM
A good article and publicity overall, but I continue to call bullshit on a few things...

"Cincinnati’s recovery follows three nights of riots in 2001, and a plunge in the number of residents and businesses, after the death of an unarmed black man shot by police. "

Show me one ounce of data where residents left, a few businesses maybe used this as a convenient excuse as to why they were closing up shop.  I continue to maintain my stance that the riots were the most overblown, media driven hype in recent history.  A black eye for the city, certainly.  But every article written about it makes it sound like the LA riots, which were full blown, city-crippling instances.  The ones here pale in a big way in scale, substance, property damage, etc.

"In 2005, Fountain Square, Cincinnati’s deteriorated cultural and economic center, was rebuilt, prompting new office and retail development nearby. "

A little worn, yes, but deteriorated?  Whatever.

Damage from the 1992 LA riots measured in the billions and 54 people were killed.  Damage in Cincinnati ranged somewhere between $3 and $5 million with nobody killed or seriously hurt. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: urbanpioneer on February 25, 2015, 12:37:56 AM
I'm so sick of the overblown accounts about the 2001 riots.  The effect of those couple of days gets exaggerated more and more over time.  Maybe Jake's correct but I seem to recall property damages were about $250,000.  Perhaps a larger figure takes into consideration estimates of lost business revenue, looting or something.  Still, 3-5 million dollars seems high.  And I agree with The_Cincinnati_Kid that Fountain Square could hardly be characterized as deteriorated.  I wonder who told the Times that falsehood?  Probably someone from 3CDC if I had to bet.  At any rate downtown did decline -- long before 2001.  Retailing was changing all over the country and we weren't exempt.  The demise of the downtown shopping hub model was helped along here in part due to Kenwood Towne Center and then Rookwood Commons.  I-471 enabled the rapid residential growth of Anderson Township, which didn't help matters here in the city.  Suburban sprawl to Mason and Westchester would've happened anyway, riots or no riots.  Cincinnati Public Schools and high tuition for private schools in the city probably had more to do with white flight than anything else.

The NYT article was okay.  It's good to get some national attention.  However, marketing-related businesses being located here is hardly news, they've been a presence as long as I can remember.  The boom in downtown residential is definitely newsworthy but the ugly photo accompanying the article didn't come close to showing our city at its best.  It seemed that the writer strained to make the story fit the narrative that incidences of cops killing young black men ruin cities.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on February 25, 2015, 07:54:10 AM
I looked back at the article where I got that figure and much of that expense was police overtime and the wages of other service personnel.  I was not living here when it happened but I am still struck by how people's first-hand accounts vary so wildly.

I have a friend who worked for the Cincinnati Opera at the time and had no idea the riots were happening until he came home and saw footage on the news.  It had been a completely ordinary day at Music Hall, which is a block from District 1. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on February 25, 2015, 08:08:32 AM
I too hope for the demise of the riots meme in the next round of these national news articles.  Please focus on brewing heritage, once being the 5th biggest city in the US which gives us a great urban core, etc.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: IAGuy39 on February 25, 2015, 08:20:28 AM
Yes I am sure as time passes this will fade further and further away.

It was still a nice article that highlights Cincinnati downtown momentum and growth.  Good to get this in the New York Times which is a highly regarded rag, for the most part!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on February 25, 2015, 09:14:42 AM
...The boom in downtown residential is definitely newsworthy but the ugly photo accompanying the article didn't come close to showing our city at its best...

I totally agree.  That photo was awful.  There are so many better angles that would show both the site of GE's new building and the rest of downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: urbanpioneer on February 25, 2015, 09:50:42 PM
I looked back at the article where I got that figure and much of that expense was police overtime and the wages of other service personnel.  I was not living here when it happened but I am still struck by how people's first-hand accounts vary so wildly.

I have a friend who worked for the Cincinnati Opera at the time and had no idea the riots were happening until he came home and saw footage on the news.  It had been a completely ordinary day at Music Hall, which is a block from District 1. 

I can appreciate your friend's experience.  The local news media hyped the riots so much it was effing ridiculous.  I've said this before on UO but to repeat myself, I kept seeing the same burning garbage can over and over on each WLWT news report I saw about the riots.  It was a close-up shot and made it seem like a MAJOR conflagration had burned down OTR.  No doubt it succeeded in frightening people who wouldn't know any better and probably did more to hurt downtown than the actual riots.  I went to Globe Furniture at Findlay Market during those few days (it was still open at that point) and had absolutely no problems.  Media can be downright shameful at times and that was one of them.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on March 12, 2015, 10:17:43 AM
Contemporary Arts Center lobby: CAC set to unveil new lobby after $1.1M renovation job

Casey Weldon
Mar 11, 2015
http://www.wcpo.com/entertainment/local-a-e/contemporary-arts-center-lobby-cac-set-to-unveil-new-lobby-after-11m-renovation-job

Quote
Construction started Jan. 6 and will officially open to the public Friday. There will be soft unveiling Thursday morning to special guests and members of the media.
...
Part of the $1.1 million makeover included the installation of a new café operated by Collective Espresso. It will serve artisan blend coffees and offer breakfast and lunch options seven days a week.

I'm very excited about this. Downtown doesn't have many good coffee options these days, so this is much needed.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on March 12, 2015, 01:48:12 PM
^True, but I've never found Collective Espresso in OTR to be a great experience or very welcoming, so I wish it was operated by someone else.  Still a +1 for the area, though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on March 12, 2015, 02:36:43 PM
Contemporary Arts Center lobby: CAC set to unveil new lobby after $1.1M renovation job

Casey Weldon
Mar 11, 2015
http://www.wcpo.com/entertainment/local-a-e/contemporary-arts-center-lobby-cac-set-to-unveil-new-lobby-after-11m-renovation-job

Quote
Construction started Jan. 6 and will officially open to the public Friday. There will be soft unveiling Thursday morning to special guests and members of the media.
...
Part of the $1.1 million makeover included the installation of a new café operated by Collective Espresso. It will serve artisan blend coffees and offer breakfast and lunch options seven days a week.

I'm very excited about this. Downtown doesn't have many good coffee options these days, so this is much needed.

French Crust has great coffee.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JohnClevesSymmes on March 12, 2015, 03:16:47 PM
^True, but I've never found Collective Espresso in OTR to be a great experience or very welcoming, so I wish it was operated by someone else.  Still a +1 for the area, though.

I have the exact opposite feeling about Collective, but perhaps your experience reflects the nature of their space and setup on Woodward. The key to the CAC location is going to be quality and efficiency; the museum lobby chic surroundings will probably dictate the vibe.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmblec2 on March 12, 2015, 03:29:55 PM
and a new starbucks is opening a block away...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on March 12, 2015, 03:37:14 PM
Where? There is already one 1/2 a block away in the 580 Building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JohnClevesSymmes on March 12, 2015, 04:14:26 PM
^It is relocating from its interior 2nd floor location to street level on 6th in the 580 building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on March 12, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
I can't believe its taken them this long to do this!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ajknee on March 13, 2015, 06:48:04 AM
I can't believe its taken them this long to do this!

The big holdup was figuring out what type of store to be. Right now the Skywalk location is just a Tall (smallest merchandise category) Cafe store. The new 580 location at street level is going to be a Starbucks Reserve Store w/Clover.

They're going from the worst type of store to the absolute best. Starbucks 4th & Vine was always their showcase store for conventioneers and it was a tough battle for the company to allow that focus to shift to 6th street.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on March 13, 2015, 06:58:50 AM
^True, but I've never found Collective Espresso in OTR to be a great experience or very welcoming, so I wish it was operated by someone else.  Still a +1 for the area, though.

I have the exact opposite feeling about Collective, but perhaps your experience reflects the nature of their space and setup on Woodward. The key to the CAC location is going to be quality and efficiency; the museum lobby chic surroundings will probably dictate the vibe.

The layout of their space on Woodward is definitely part of it, but I actually like the location.  The rest isn't worth getting into.  Good luck to them at the CAC.  I hope it's a great addition to the lobby and to downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ajknee on March 13, 2015, 07:16:37 AM
I'm with Jimmy_James on this one. I've never had a good experience at Collective Espresso. I've decided that I'm just not their niche though, so whatever.  Best of luck to them. I miss the old CAC lobby though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on March 13, 2015, 08:36:13 AM
Collective espresso is a good place to get coffee not a good cafe.  The coffee is great, with good roasts and brewing methods they produce better coffee then the average shop. the cafe is that horrible uncomfortable modern trend that I see too much of in Chicago also like a Chicago cafe it closes way to darn early. Give me the highland over that any day.


(Also despite having a Julus Meinl Chicago has a terrible cafe culture even the good ones close at 9pm)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on March 18, 2015, 03:28:26 PM
Business Courier coverage: It'll soon be easier to get Starbucks downtown (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/03/18/itll-soon-be-easier-to-get-starbucks-downtown.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on March 18, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Seeing the pics of the new lobby, what the heck are they thinking (not in terms of the cafe, but in terms of all the extra color they added - the building has an elegant simplicity that they just ruined):

http://5chw4r7z.blogspot.com/2015/03/collective-cac.html

Also I'm really hoping that the wrapping on the outside of this building is temporary...  Its kind of a disgusting middle finger to the original architecture.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on March 18, 2015, 05:41:24 PM
The pillar lights are too bright.  Reminds me of Forest Fair Mall circa 1989. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on March 18, 2015, 08:06:55 PM
The wrap is temporary but is no different than the many other building wrap exhibits over the years. It's a contemporary art museum. Displaying contemporary art on the exterior makes sense. I'm quite fond of this building and think this is a great use of a large flat canvas on the facade for a very Cincinnati-based piece of contemporary art.

The interior looks a little busy, but again, it's a contemporary art museum. The lobby was originally left intentionally sparse to allow for varying exhibits and designs to flow in and out of the lobby space. That really hasn't happened and seeing this actually makes me happy.

The column lights though I'm never a fond of. They will always look, "80s corporate office lobby" to me. See: Queen City Square.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Ram23 on March 19, 2015, 09:53:24 PM
I'm glad the wrap on the outside is temporary because it's simply unattractive. Is the Windows 3.1 screensaver looking finish on the inside temporary too? I think it would actually look better if it actually were a Windows 3.1 screensaver.

Usually when there are unimaginative, unattractive exhibits at the CAC one can find solace in the fact that they'll be gone soon. I'm still hoping the whole new lobby is just a big performance piece, and one day it'll all be back to what it was.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on March 20, 2015, 12:36:27 AM
I'm glad the wrap on the outside is temporary because it's simply unattractive. Is the Windows 3.1 screensaver looking finish on the inside temporary too? I think it would actually look better if it actually were a Windows 3.1 screensaver.

Usually when there are unimaginative, unattractive exhibits at the CAC one can find solace in the fact that they'll be gone soon. I'm still hoping the whole new lobby is just a big performance piece, and one day it'll all be back to what it was.

Or flying toasters. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: IAGuy39 on March 20, 2015, 08:09:26 AM
I am not an architect or design specialist or anything like that.  I don't think there is any issue with it, it looks fine and interesting.  I bet 99% of people will think that as well, but maybe not...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on March 20, 2015, 09:17:02 AM
I really don't like the Keep Cincinnati Beautiful brightly-colored designs that they put on vacant buildings around the city. I think it screams "HEY! I'M A VACANT BUILDING!" rather than helping the building blend into the neighborhood. So, I'm really not a big fan of seeing that same design applied to the CAC.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on March 20, 2015, 10:06:15 AM
^Ever seen season 4 of The Wire? Those boards could be stark, basic plywood.  I'm glad for the color that the Keep Cincinnati Beautiful doors provide.

I think the CAC is really trying to integrate more with its surroundings, as the building was originally intended to do.  I was thinking about this last night. The whole ground floor design objective of the CAC is based on the idea of the continuation of the urban fabric.  When it was built, I think the lobby appropriately reflected the surrounding urban fabric, but in recent years, I think it reflected less of it's surroundings by remaining static, as the rest of the area underwent major change.  The 6th and Walnut corner is the most colorful and active in the city, and I think it's appropriate for the CAC to try to build on that.  Since the CAC opened at 6th and Walnut the 580 building has been transformed and dramatically opened up at ground level, Nada moved in next to the Aronoff bringing a bright, colorful, and transparent restaurant to the corner, 21C and its bright yellow penguins have taken over the old Metropole, and the 5/3 garage has been covered with the Stanczak art installation. I'd say the new color and cafe in the lobby more accurately reflect 6th and Walnut in 2015. 

I tend to agree with most here that the lit columns have the potential to be a little garish, but I think they could actually look really cool at night.  They'll make the lobby glow, which will illuminate the corner without potentially tacky exterior lighting.  It's not like they're hanging a giant 'chandelier' over Walnut ;-)  Collective adds a great coffee and lunch option, and makes the CAC more of a public space than it currently is.  Overall, I definitely think their changes are an upgrade.

As for the art installations on the exterior of the building, I have mixed feelings.  It looked really cool when they installed the JR piece last year, but as it began to fade and peel, it looked horrendous.  I also don't have a problem with the Keep Cincinnati Beautiful doors being on there now, but I worry that they will again tarnish the exterior when they begin to fade and deteriorate.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on March 20, 2015, 10:08:57 AM
^Ever seen season 4 of The Wire? Those boards could be stark, basic plywood.  I'm glad for the color that the Keep Cincinnati Beautiful doors provide.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_UuImPL4E
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on March 20, 2015, 10:33:00 AM
I really don't like the Keep Cincinnati Beautiful brightly-colored designs that they put on vacant buildings around the city. I think it screams "HEY! I'M A VACANT BUILDING!" rather than helping the building blend into the neighborhood. So, I'm really not a big fan of seeing that same design applied to the CAC.

I kind of like know which buildings are vacant.  Also, someone took the time to paint the ugly plywood boards.  That's a visual cue that the neighborhood is cared for, even if some of the buildings are currently vacant and in disrepair.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on March 25, 2015, 09:40:18 AM
The former TJ Maxx building complex is on the market, being marketed as a potential conversion to residential with a rooftop garden.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on March 25, 2015, 09:45:17 AM
I'm going to guess, with all that's happening on 4th these days, that this won't take long to be sold off and converted. I'm glad to see that it probably won't sit unused for long.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmblec2 on March 25, 2015, 09:53:28 AM
Who owns the building that the Starbucks is in (right next to these buildings)? It is a beautiful building that needs some work but looks like a great place for apartments.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on April 08, 2015, 04:32:28 PM
EXCLUSIVE: Masons explore redevelopment at iconic downtown temple

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/04/08/exclusive-masons-explore-redevelopment-at-iconic.html?page=all
Quote
The owners of the Cincinnati Masonic Center and Taft Theatre are working with commercial real estate firm DTZ to determine the future of the historic Fifth Street buildings. The Cincinnati Masonic Center at 317 E. Fifth St. is home to the Valley of Cincinnati, the local branch of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.
...
Tom Powers, executive managing director with DTZ, and Digger Daley, vice president at DTZ, are leading the effort to help the organization decide what’s best for it, the property and the city.
“We are working with them to figure out what they should do with the Masonic Center,” Powers said. “It may be nothing is done. They asked us to help them figure out what, if anything, should be done with that complex.”
Daley said no options have been ruled out at this point. “It could be an out-right sale, it could be they sell a portion of it, it could be potentially a tear-down, build-to-suit,” Daley told me.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 09, 2015, 08:27:26 AM

Study: Downtown is no longer just where we work
Apr 9, 2015, 7:23am EDT
Staff Cincinnati Business Courier


The perception of downtown Cincinnati as simply a business center has faded, which is fueling growth in a number of ways, according to a new study from Downtown Cincinnati Inc.

Downtown Cincinnati and Over-the-Rhine have 15,500 residents, the Enquirer reports. That’s up from 13,500 in 2013 and 6,962 in 2004. There were 93 condo sales in OTR this year, which represents a boost from 40 in 2010.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/04/study-downtown-is-no-longer-just-where-we-work.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/04/study-downtown-is-no-longer-just-where-we-work.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on April 24, 2015, 03:54:11 PM
EXCLUSIVE: Staffmark moving its downtown Cincinnati HQ
Apr 24, 2015, 1:42pm EDT
Tom Demeropolis Senior Staff Reporter-Cincinnati Business Courier



Staffmark, the national commercial staffing firm based in downtown Cincinnati, is moving its corporate headquarters after more than 20 years on Elm Street.

Staffmark signed an eight-year lease for more than 37,000 square feet of space at Omnicare Center. The company, which has 200 employees in its downtown office, is expected to move before the end of the year.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/04/24/exclusive-staffmark-moving-its-downtown-cincinnati.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/04/24/exclusive-staffmark-moving-its-downtown-cincinnati.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on April 26, 2015, 09:43:06 PM
How long can Downtown hotel boom continue? (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2015/04/23/downtown-hotel-arms-race/26273277/)

Downtown Cincinnati is seeing its biggest hotel development boom since the 1980s.

Five new hotels have opened since 2011, ending a nearly 30-year drought since the Hyatt Regency Cincinnati started serving guests in 1984. Now, hoteliers are adding three more Downtown hotels as two new Northern Kentucky river city hotels are being developed.

The aggressive addition of rooms without increasing room demand is forcing owners to consider changes – or face a fate similar to that of the now shuttered Terrace Plaza hotel.

"Any time there's new competition coming into the neighborhood, it makes you sharpen your pencil and bring your A-game," said Mick Douthat, general manager and sales director for the Garfield Suites Hotel, where its owner is considering a multimillion dollar renovation.

Cont (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2015/04/23/downtown-hotel-arms-race/26273277/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on April 27, 2015, 12:27:03 PM
The Garfield Suites definitely needs a renovation. Looking at the photos on TripAdvisor - http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g60993-d95115-Reviews-Garfield_Suites_Hotel-Cincinnati_Ohio.html#photos - it makes me think that this building might make more sense as apartments/condos. The balconies would be a nice amenity for apartments, and the top floors have patios that could be nice for larger, two-story units.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: urbanpioneer on April 27, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
^Actually when it was first developed in the 1980s, it WAS an apartment building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on April 27, 2015, 02:09:49 PM
Interesting that it was an apartment building. I had no idea.

One benefit for the Garfield is that they are the closest large hotel to OTR. I think it would be a successful site regardless of use (hotel or apartments). With all of the new hotels opening, though, it might be wise for them to take advantage of the downtown housing boom.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on April 27, 2015, 02:10:29 PM
^Actually when it was first developed in the 1980s, it WAS an apartment building.
Interesting! Any idea how long it was before it was converted into a hotel?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: OCtoCincy on April 27, 2015, 02:35:06 PM
While it seems like they might go... It should be reminded that they are one of the only long term stay.  Each unit has a kitchen, etc.  One of the two new hotels in the Enquirer building is a direct competitor in that aspect. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on April 27, 2015, 02:45:12 PM
The article makes it seem like the renovation is pretty much a done deal (which is great news), and it'll be converted into a DoubleTree Suites Hotel:
Quote
The Garfield Suites Hotel also is primed for a renovation. Indiana-based Hotel Capital bought out a partner in a joint venture and Douthat said renovations could begin this fall to turn the 16-story, 153-room property into Hilton's Collection Series DoubleTree Suites Hotel.



Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: chinkley on May 04, 2015, 06:32:26 PM
I really want the City to come out with a target number of downtown residents it wants to reach by the year 2020 or 2025. Not just a number, but a well thought-out plan for achieving the goal (that doesn't include 2 parking garage spaced per unit). I'm pretty sure Charlotte has a number, and I'll bet other peer cities do, too. As long as the subsidies per unit are small (and keep decreasing with each building), it is a terrific financial win for the city.

What do people think is a good number to shoot for? 25,000 by 2025 has a good ring to it.


Study: Downtown is no longer just where we work
Apr 9, 2015, 7:23am EDT
Staff Cincinnati Business Courier


The perception of downtown Cincinnati as simply a business center has faded, which is fueling growth in a number of ways, according to a new study from Downtown Cincinnati Inc.

Downtown Cincinnati and Over-the-Rhine have 15,500 residents, the Enquirer reports. That’s up from 13,500 in 2013 and 6,962 in 2004. There were 93 condo sales in OTR this year, which represents a boost from 40 in 2010.


Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on May 04, 2015, 06:40:29 PM
If we keep at the same pace we're currently building at we'll have no troubles reaching 25,000 people by 2025. Honestly I think we should be striving for 25,000 by 2020. It's ambitious but it would only take a handful of high profile projects per year plus all the smaller projects to reach that goal. A full build-out of The Banks will bring several thousand people. The projects announced lining Liberty in OTR will bring about hundreds of new people. A handful of new skyscrapers Downtown can easily bring another couple thousand residents if done correctly. We're accelerating our rate of growth and it's starting to show. We're reaching a tipping point where development begets development. Once it starts snowballing at a certain pace it becomes difficult to slow or stop. And that's the point Cincinnati is quickly approaching.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: chinkley on May 04, 2015, 06:55:23 PM
I'm not so certain about reaching that goal by 2020. The downsized 4th and Race has 200 units, so that's maybe 500 people. Do we know how many units are going in the tower at 8th and sycamore? together they're probably 1000 people, on the high end. After that... like it or not big buildings take a while to plan and then build. I know that urbancincy has remarked often on the dearth of (visible) projects in the pipeline.

Plus, at some point, the towers will have to stop including huge parking garages. That point probably scares many developers, who think they need more money to finance the garages, thus slowing down the pace of construction.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on May 04, 2015, 07:05:35 PM
It probably won't happen, but we're currently growing at around 1000/year without any of these much larger scale projects having come online in recent years. Maybe if we push it back to 2022 it'll be more realistic, but I honestly believe this next two years is going to bring with it several really high profile projects in the form of very large buildings Downtown. Larger than any of the recent projects we've seen.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on May 04, 2015, 08:45:31 PM
^You must have some insider info.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on May 04, 2015, 08:49:47 PM
Nothing specific, but being an architect leads to many rumblings passing through the mouths of coworkers, peers at other firms, contractors, etc. There are a handful of firms doing multi-family projects that are seeing a LOT of interest in larger and larger projects that have yet to be announced.

The perks of being in the business I guess haha.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: urbanpioneer on May 04, 2015, 08:57:57 PM
^Actually when it was first developed in the 1980s, it WAS an apartment building.
Interesting! Any idea how long it was before it was converted into a hotel?

I think 2 Garfield became a hotel well within a decade of its opening.  Maybe as soon as 5 years later.  In those days there just wasn't the demand for downtown living that we see today, and it struggled.  It was too far ahead of its time.  A lot of the apartments were used by local big businesses such as Cincinnati Bell, P&G, etc., for trainees who came to town for extended stays. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on May 15, 2015, 11:59:22 AM
EXCLUSIVE: Fast-growing retailer moving its headquarters downtown
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/05/15/exclusive-fast-growing-retailer-moving-its.html

Quote
Tire Discounters, the nation's ninth-largest independent tire retailer, is moving its corporate headquarters to downtown Cincinnati.
The family-owned and operated company, currently headquartered in Sharonville, is expected to move to One East Fourth Street this summer. The company signed a long-term lease for about 10,000 square feet of space to occupy the entire fourth floor.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on May 15, 2015, 01:07:30 PM
Company that sells tires relocates from suburban Sharonville to Downtown Cincinnati. If this isn't a sign that mainstream views of cities are changing (for the better), I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: OHSnap on May 15, 2015, 03:33:04 PM
This is timely.  I can't see how Tire Discounters can keep up this growth locally.  I just saw they're building one at Center of Cincinnati across from the LA Fitness.  This in addition to one at Ridge/Highland (which I assume will close), Kenwood, Red Bank, Mariemont, and over 25 other stores in the region.  Add in Bob Sumerel, Sam's, etc. and you're barely more than five minutes from a tire store anywhere you go.  Can people really need that many tires?

/get off my lawn
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Ram23 on May 15, 2015, 03:39:56 PM
This is timely.  I can't see how Tire Discounters can keep up this growth locally.  I just saw they're building one at Center of Cincinnati across from the LA Fitness.  This in addition to one at Ridge/Highland (which I assume will close), Kenwood, Red Bank, Mariemont, and over 25 other stores in the region.  Add in Bob Sumerel, Sam's, etc. and you're barely more than five minutes from a tire store anywhere you go.  Can people really need that many tires?

/get off my lawn

I'd bet the majority of what they do is routine maintenance like oil changes. Every single car on the road needs one or two of those a year, and most people just go to whichever place is closest or has the best coupon.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on May 15, 2015, 03:55:32 PM
Yeah, most of these places do full-service mechanical work, so while a place like Jiffy-Lube or Valvoline does basic oil changes, A/C refrigerant, fluids and stuff, at Tire Discounters, Bob Sumerel, Midas, Car-X, etc., also do brakes, shocks, exhaust, spark plugs, belts, suspension, and I think they'll even pull transmissions though they might have to send them out for the actual work.  Basically they're competing with the dealers and local mechanics. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on May 19, 2015, 02:36:00 PM
EXCLUSIVE: P&G rival moving office to downtown Cincinnati
May 19, 2015, 3:00pm EDT Updated May 19, 2015, 3:04pm EDT
Tom Demeropolis
Cincinnati Business Courier


RB plc, the multinational consumer goods company based in England, is moving its local office to downtown Cincinnati.

RB currently has a sales office in West Chester Township at 9100 W. Chester Towne Centre Road. That office will move to the former Chiquita Center now known as 250 East Fifth Street. The company, which makes health, hygiene, home and food products such as Mucinex, Lysol and Woolite, wanted to be closer to Kroger Co.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/05/19/exclusive-p-g-rival-moving-office-to-downtown.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/05/19/exclusive-p-g-rival-moving-office-to-downtown.html)

Officials with RB were not immediately available to discuss the upcoming move.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on May 23, 2015, 07:32:27 AM
I rode my bike down around where they were setting up for Taste of Cincinnati this year and it really hit home how impractical and stupid it is to be having these festivals on Fifth Street. First you completely shut down the region's largest transit hub (try getting away with that in any other city.) Second you are cramming all these people onto Fifth Street making the festival itself a really uncomfortable experience. Third downtown businesses actually report a drop in business festival weekends so your not helping anyone by doing that.

There is absolutely no reason not to move these festivals down to the Banks other than the tired old Cincinnati "But we've always done it this way." And Cranley has learned to play those sentiments like a stradivarius.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on May 23, 2015, 09:05:06 AM
If it were his idea and it didn't create a negative perception for the streetcar, he'd totally be for it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jim uber on May 23, 2015, 09:47:14 AM
^ Agreed. It will be moved eventually cause it makes too much sense. Personally, I don't go to Taste or Octoberfest cause to me its just a crowded mess and I feel like cattle moving along with the crowd as it snakes down 5th street,... and back,...  If I could grab a beer and listen to music in a more two-dimensional environment, and go hang out on grass by the riverfront when I got tired of it, then that sounds like a fun day to me.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on May 23, 2015, 09:52:49 AM
Yep.  I lost interest in Taste when it moved to 5th for the reasons you stated.  It's not family friendly either for the sole reason that it's too small.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 02, 2015, 12:01:00 PM

One of Cincinnati's largest public companies renews, expands its downtown HQ
Jun 2, 2015, 11:33am EDT   
Tom Demeropolis 
Cincinnati Business Courier

 
Chemed Corp., which operates Vitas Healthcare and Roto-Rooter, has renewed its lease at First Financial Center and expanded its headquarters by about 10,000 square feet.

Chemed (NYSE: CHE) signed a more than 10-year lease extension for about 68,000 square feet of space at 255 E. Fifth St., which was formerly known as Chemed Center before First Financial moved into the building. Before this renewal and expansion, Chemed leased about 58,000 square feet of space in the 525,000-square-foot downtown office tower.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/06/02/one-of-cincinnatis-largest-public-companies-renews.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/06/02/one-of-cincinnatis-largest-public-companies-renews.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: TroyEros on June 05, 2015, 02:36:27 PM
Really interesting article from the Cincinnati Business Journal:  http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2015/06/05/the-wait-could-end-finally-for-downtown-condos.html?ana=sm_cinci_ucp97&b=1433443584%5E17413901


Notes from the article:

- Rob Sibcy, president of the city’s largest real estate company, Sibcy Cline convinced large downtown condo boom is on the way, “These things are coming,” he said.

-Sibcy has teamed with developer Rick Greiwe and Tom Williams, president of North American Properties, to build the successful Mariemont Village Square development. If the same team secure the land they want, they’ll have a downtown condo project to construct.

-What’s driving the urban living trend is a combination of changing demographics, the increasing importance of walkable neighborhoods, proximity to the core and maintenance-free living. And baby boomers, with their massive numbers and money, want to be in the middle of the action.

-Another developer that could break the condo dam is Towne Properties, known largely for its local residential developments. Munitz, who joined Towne earlier this year after nine years with 3CDC, said the Mount Adams-based company is exploring development opportunities for both apartments and condos downtown.


-Greiwe said a true, brand-new high-rise condo tower, all concrete and glass with higher end finishes, could cost upward of $500 or $600 per square foot.“That’s a different animal than three stories of wood construction,” Greiwe said.Baker questions how many buyers are out there who could pay $500 per square foot. In that scenario, a 2,000-square-foot condo would cost $1 million.“That’s a little high. Maybe when the GE people start coming into town – maybe,” Baker said, referring to the 1,800 General Electric employees who eventually will work at the multinational giant’s global operations center at the Banks.


-What downtown Cincinnati does have is surface parking lots. And their owners don’t want to sell.


-Greiwe has proposed making parking lot owners equity partners in projects, and replacing the parking lot revenue with money from garage parking.“We haven’t found an owner yet who wants to do that,” Greiwe said. “We’re in conversations. These are people that have owned these lots for generations. You’ve got to get their arms around it.”
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Brutus_buckeye on June 05, 2015, 03:53:42 PM
I think the big thing that makes condos hard in Cincy is the lack of available land in the CBD. It is about as built out as can be with small surface lots. After the Casino went to Broadway commons, there really is not a huge surface lot for a condo development in the area. Not like Cbus had with the arena district and Grandview yard area. I don't know if it was a blessing or a curse that the downtown area was never that industrial.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on June 05, 2015, 04:06:13 PM
I think the big thing that makes condos hard in Cincy is the lack of available land in the CBD. It is about as built out as can be with small surface lots. After the Casino went to Broadway commons, there really is not a huge surface lot for a condo development in the area. Not like Cbus had with the arena district and Grandview yard area. I don't know if it was a blessing or a curse that the downtown area was never that industrial.

There are tons of huge surface parking lots. Around City Hall for example and around Walnut and Central and east of P&G. Look for it next time you're walking around downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: eurokie on June 05, 2015, 04:10:36 PM
Parking lot owners need to be shamed into backing down. Cities in this state need to crack the whip on eyesore property owners, especially those in our downtowns. There should be no surface parking in a healthy downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on June 05, 2015, 04:10:37 PM
Yep.  And they have been there for a looooong time.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on June 05, 2015, 04:40:05 PM
My mom is a 17 year real estate veteran and she says she has no idea what the market is doing right now. She thinks "its still trying to figure itself out" and everyone is waiting to see what is going to happen. She has young clients right now who want to buy, for instance, in the established northeast suburbs but have been out-bid on every purchase offer. Like those areas are in a Las Vegas style housing bubble. Meanwhile, properties in slightly less desirable areas just sit. She has others - baby boomers - who would live downtown but feel there is nothing available. None of her clients are interested in buying new construction in far-flung areas.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: mu2010 on June 05, 2015, 05:56:20 PM
Parking lot owners need to be shamed into backing down. Cities in this state need to crack the whip on eyesore property owners, especially those in our downtowns. There should be no surface parking in a healthy downtown.

I'm scratching my head about the lot owners not wanting to sell, because if the demand is so high, there's got to be a point where they are worth far more as condos than as parking lots, and no sane parking lot owner would refuse to sell. Maybe it hasn't been reached yet but eventually they'll tumble like dominoes.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: chinkley on June 05, 2015, 07:17:58 PM
Is there any way for the city to penalize the owners of surface parking lots? I totally get that it's a great annuity to have, if you don't mind it coming from something as lame as a surface lot. And to be honest, when the money is coming in, you don't ask why or how.

My response would be for the city to figure out a way that it could make surface lots the less desirable alternative, without being heavy handed about it. In my mind, the whole thing feeds into the larger reality that it is easier (cheaper) to live in Covington, Hyde Park, Price Hill, or Mason, and commute downtown, than it is to live in a tower on Central Parkway and walk 5 blocks to work. Until that changes, there really is no incentive for the surface lots to go away.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: eurokie on June 06, 2015, 11:04:04 AM
Some cities tax surface lots higher. Others tax them the same as property which is nicely built-out. Just don't have a taxing structure that penalizes development, because when something as minute as thousandth-percentile profit margins make or break people, taxes are a HUGE factor.

Parking lot owners need to be shamed into backing down. Cities in this state need to crack the whip on eyesore property owners, especially those in our downtowns. There should be no surface parking in a healthy downtown.

I'm scratching my head about the lot owners not wanting to sell, because if the demand is so high, there's got to be a point where they are worth far more as condos than as parking lots, and no sane parking lot owner would refuse to sell. Maybe it hasn't been reached yet but eventually they'll tumble like dominoes.

I've had to stop scratching my head at some things, or else I'll go prematurely bald. I understand fully though (sadly) how things stay the same everywhere despite the "rapid progress" we have convinced ourselves of. Land speculation is an incredibly powerful force.

They probably think the development boom either just makes their parking all the more valuable or that their land premium will be even higher in the future. What did surprise me is that Cincy's surface lots are "locally, family-owned," which is why I said you need to shame these people into selling. Stop treating them like downtown property owners and instead like the slumlords that they are.

Usually your problem (ESP in our other C's) is the surface lots are all out of state owned.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: KyleCincy on June 06, 2015, 11:26:04 AM
Parking lot owners need to be shamed into backing down. Cities in this state need to crack the whip on eyesore property owners, especially those in our downtowns. There should be no surface parking in a healthy downtown.

I'm scratching my head about the lot owners not wanting to sell, because if the demand is so high, there's got to be a point where they are worth far more as condos than as parking lots, and no sane parking lot owner would refuse to sell. Maybe it hasn't been reached yet but eventually they'll tumble like dominoes.

Everyone has their price that they will sell. We have a quote from 1 guy in that article. The developer needs to offer more or buy existing B/C office buildings and convert them to Condos. Most of the residential development is apartments, downtown / otr, so maybe bang on those developers about not offering condos.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: eurokie on June 06, 2015, 11:42:49 AM
I don't think you can fault developers for gravitating toward the rental market. It's not just the housing crash. Downtown rental is a uniquely strong market because it offers flexibility. Plus, those units can be condoized as affordable home ownership at a later date.

The story will begin, "Developers built a lot of downtown rental after the 2008 suburban home mortgage crash..." We don't yet know how it ends.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on June 06, 2015, 11:50:40 AM

(3) Let's not forget that there were a couple of dumb things the Malllory administration did.  #1 is not building the Downtown-OTR loop as soon as possible.  Huge mistake that wasted tons of years and money.  It's so obvious that people aren't going to be able to appreciate a new project until they actually see how it works.  Also, being involved in the Queen City Square Building was a bonehead play.  It totally wrecked the downtown real estate market.  Ever wonder why, all of the sudden there are tons of hotels being built downtown when prior to 2005 not a single new hotel had been constructed in God knows how long? It's a combination of the increase in outsourced consulting work for major corporations like P&G (the Phelps Residence Inn exists because P&G is across the street) and Kroger and the massive increase in empty office space downtown.

Even that has a silver lining as ideally some of those buildings should be converted to Residential since demand is so high for it.

I'm kind of shocked so many are hotels and not residential.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seanian513 on June 06, 2015, 10:42:21 PM
Really interesting article from the Cincinnati Business Journal:  http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2015/06/05/the-wait-could-end-finally-for-downtown-condos.html?ana=sm_cinci_ucp97&b=1433443584%5E17413901

I read that article and it looks like we'll hear about some new condo towers going up.  According to the article we should hear something soon.     
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on June 07, 2015, 09:17:27 AM
Local?  Isn't it the Joseph family that owns the most obvious lots in Sycamore and Broadway?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on June 07, 2015, 10:55:23 AM
I honestly think that what will ultimately do in the surface lots will simply be driverless cars. Unless you're going to regulate them out of town or tax them out of profitability, parking lots will always exist becuase the car itself and its influence on urban form is what makes it economical to own empty land in the center of a city. It is both the problem and the solution to its own problem. A never-ending circle.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PAlexander on June 08, 2015, 06:35:33 AM

(3) Let's not forget that there were a couple of dumb things the Malllory administration did.  #1 is not building the Downtown-OTR loop as soon as possible.  Huge mistake that wasted tons of years and money.  It's so obvious that people aren't going to be able to appreciate a new project until they actually see how it works.  Also, being involved in the Queen City Square Building was a bonehead play.  It totally wrecked the downtown real estate market.  Ever wonder why, all of the sudden there are tons of hotels being built downtown when prior to 2005 not a single new hotel had been constructed in God knows how long? It's a combination of the increase in outsourced consulting work for major corporations like P&G (the Phelps Residence Inn exists because P&G is across the street) and Kroger and the massive increase in empty office space downtown.

Even that has a silver lining as ideally some of those buildings should be converted to Residential since demand is so high for it.

I'm kind of shocked so many are hotels and not residential.

Yeah, the amount of new hotels that have sprung up the past four years has been wild.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on June 08, 2015, 07:48:38 AM
Do you have any evidence that the number of new hotels is a direct result of local companies hiring more out of town consultants? I would guess that it has more to do with Cincinnati becoming more of a destination (after getting publicity in the New York Times and other publications) and due to a number of historic buildings becoming available for conversion to hotels.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: mu2010 on June 08, 2015, 08:48:38 AM
Also, being involved in the Queen City Square Building was a bonehead play.  It totally wrecked the downtown real estate market.  Ever wonder why, all of the sudden there are tons of hotels being built downtown when prior to 2005 not a single new hotel had been constructed in God knows how long? It's a combination of the increase in outsourced consulting work for major corporations like P&G (the Phelps Residence Inn exists because P&G is across the street) and Kroger and the massive increase in empty office space downtown.

I get that these subsidized new skyscrapers totally throw off downtown office markets... the same thing happened in Cleveland in the early 90s with Key Tower and the BP Building... but, a bunch of new hotels and residences in both those cities isn't the worst thing in the world. Still though there are probably better uses of all that public money.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on June 08, 2015, 09:03:32 AM
I'd compare it to how you need to have a forest fire sometimes to have new growth in the forest. A new tower like QCS opens, and then for the next couple of years, tenants shuffle around moving into better office space. Owner of old buildings then have to decide to upgrade their office space or do a conversion to apartments, condos, or a hotel.

From 2012: http://www.urbancincy.com/2012/03/downtown-cincinnati-poised-for-surge-of-residential-conversions/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on June 08, 2015, 09:34:46 AM
Do you have any evidence that the number of new hotels is a direct result of local companies hiring more out of town consultants? I would guess that it has more to do with Cincinnati becoming more of a destination (after getting publicity in the New York Times and other publications) and due to a number of historic buildings becoming available for conversion to hotels.

Travelers felt that there were too few hotel rooms Downtown, that they were too expensive, not really all that nice and that the rooms were small. A friend of mine works for Riverbend (who also provides services for other shows) and says that a lot of the bands complained about it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PAlexander on June 08, 2015, 08:44:39 PM
Do you have any evidence that the number of new hotels is a direct result of local companies hiring more out of town consultants? I would guess that it has more to do with Cincinnati becoming more of a destination (after getting publicity in the New York Times and other publications) and due to a number of historic buildings becoming available for conversion to hotels.

I don't.  I was talking to someone, who it was I honestly can't remember, who mentioned that as the reason why so many hotels had been built recently.  I think he was in development but I really can't recall.  The reason it stuck with me was because his statement reiterated something I had heard years before from a guy fairly high up at Western/Southern who described the soon to be Phelps Hotel rehab to me as, "a hotel for P&G".

While there may be increased tourism in Cincinnati (I actually heard people conversing in French outside 1215 Wine & Coffee this evening) I seriously doubt that is the reason any of the other downtown hotels have come up.  21c probably happened because the original one was in Louisville, but all those national chains that have put in hotels downtown in recent years are likely doing it for the same reason, and I doubt it is primarily increased tourism.

I'd compare it to how you need to have a forest fire sometimes to have new growth in the forest. A new tower like QCS opens, and then for the next couple of years, tenants shuffle around moving into better office space. Owner of old buildings then have to decide to upgrade their office space or do a conversion to apartments, condos, or a hotel.

From 2012: http://www.urbancincy.com/2012/03/downtown-cincinnati-poised-for-surge-of-residential-conversions/

Maybe.  I'm not sure if that is the best analogy, particularly when you're dealing with all the public funds spent on QCS.

But even if that is a good analogy, the problem with QCS is that we spent a bunch of public money to create slack in the market and now we don't have public funds to shift the slack to the residential market.  It wasn't well thought out, it wasn't part of a public plan, and it wasn't designed for the City to make more money than we put into it.  It was a vanity project, and everyone fell for it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ink on June 08, 2015, 09:18:09 PM
But even if that is a good analogy, the problem with QCS is that we spent a bunch of public money to create slack in the market and now we don't have public funds to shift the slack to the residential market.  It wasn't well thought out, it wasn't part of a public plan, and it wasn't designed for the City to make more money than we put into it.  It was a vanity project, and everyone fell for it.

Wow, that is harsh. I don't see it that way.

In recent years, we've seen several C-ish level office buildings--i.e. Enquirer Building (hotel), Bartlett Building (hotel), Federal Reserve Building (apartments)--converted to other uses using local tax abatements and state/federal tax credits.

We will soon see the Union Central Life Annex (residential), Merchants Building (residential), Baldwin Piano Building (residential), P&G Sycamore Building (hotel), and Ingalls Building (eventually something) get converted with the same funding formula. Even the 580 Building is partially converting to residential without significant subsidy.

Sure, Queen City Square had an impact on the market and I can understand why some building owners may not think that is a good thing as rents stay low, but overall I think it is a good thing for the city. The space is being back-filled slowly but steadily and downtown is all the better for it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: mu2010 on June 08, 2015, 10:32:46 PM
I personally feel that 5 ten-story buildings would be better for these cities than one 40 or 50 story building like Queen City Square. I think the mega skyscrapers tend to isolate people, kind of like a suburban office park that just happens to be downtown. Whereas smaller scale buildings might get their occupants to interact with the neighborhood a bit more.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for height at the proper time, if we were out of space and demand called for it, but when it's subsidized, I think we tend to jump the gun and build too high for the specific situation.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PAlexander on June 09, 2015, 08:03:33 AM
But even if that is a good analogy, the problem with QCS is that we spent a bunch of public money to create slack in the market and now we don't have public funds to shift the slack to the residential market.  It wasn't well thought out, it wasn't part of a public plan, and it wasn't designed for the City to make more money than we put into it.  It was a vanity project, and everyone fell for it.

Wow, that is harsh. I don't see it that way.

In recent years, we've seen several C-ish level office buildings--i.e. Enquirer Building (hotel), Bartlett Building (hotel), Federal Reserve Building (apartments)--converted to other uses using local tax abatements and state/federal tax credits.

We will soon see the Union Central Life Annex (residential), Merchants Building (residential), Baldwin Piano Building (residential), P&G Sycamore Building (hotel), and Ingalls Building (eventually something) get converted with the same funding formula. Even the 580 Building is partially converting to residential without significant subsidy.

Sure, Queen City Square had an impact on the market and I can understand why some building owners may not think that is a good thing as rents stay low, but overall I think it is a good thing for the city. The space is being back-filled slowly but steadily and downtown is all the better for it.

I'm not saying I'm right.  I'm simply saying that, unlike the development that's been going on in OTR, whatever is happening downtown is relatively ad hoc, much more driven by corporate demands, and not really the best focus for public funds.  So the question is- what sort of time frame for that back-fill is worthwhile for the City?

Think about OTR.  3CDC was created in 2003, partly in response to the 2001 riots, and (I'd argue) had begun amassing significant properties starting 2005.  So you've got a 10-15 year time frame from beginning of the plan to the a clear return on ones investment.  It's largely controlled by a central authority, who rolls out different sections of new residential every so often in order to manage the growth and keep the values stable.  It's pretty clear that none of this would have happened as quickly and with such a conscious effort at historical preservation (as poorly executed as it sometimes is) without this central actor.

The back-fill from these 3CDC is two-fold in my opinion: 1) you have random individual building owners who are able to jump on the train, and 2) private developers are searching for "the next OTR".  This is what I believe you see happening in Walnut Hills.  Lots of individual action, some significant subsidies for specific historical buildings, a robust nonprofit development company.

As for the downtown stuff, it all seems rather random.  Our minds naturally want to seek patterns and order and cause & effect, but is it really there?  The Enquirer building had been sitting empty far before Queen City Square.  Were there still offices in the Bartlett Building?  Just because one project came before the other doesn't mean that the following projects wouldn't have happened without the first.  It seems far to similar to the arguments for the MLK interchange: "If we build it they'll add 4,000 new jobs!"  Those hospitals weren't going to move, and nobody adds a job just because you don't have to drive six extra blocks from Taft (and who knows, maybe folks will still drive those blocks from MLK just to find parking).

Finally, places like QCS and the Dunnhumby building are being pretty heavily subsidized and they are building on parking lots.  Also, the residential portion of the dunnhumby building got scrapped almost immediately after it gained approval.  And we're still adding parking, parking, parking everywhere when we are about to start the streetcar system.

My point is simply that I wish there was an easier way to find out if these downtown office subsidies are worth it.  They don't seem like it to me, and as much as I want to be optimistic about the future (and I am) when we have such limited funds for development the City needs to put them where they have the most impact, not vanity projects for developers and politicians.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on June 09, 2015, 09:14:38 AM
I'd compare it to how you need to have a forest fire sometimes to have new growth in the forest. A new tower like QCS opens, and then for the next couple of years, tenants shuffle around moving into better office space. Owner of old buildings then have to decide to upgrade their office space or do a conversion to apartments, condos, or a hotel.

From 2012: http://www.urbancincy.com/2012/03/downtown-cincinnati-poised-for-surge-of-residential-conversions/

Maybe.  I'm not sure if that is the best analogy, particularly when you're dealing with all the public funds spent on QCS.

But even if that is a good analogy, the problem with QCS is that we spent a bunch of public money to create slack in the market and now we don't have public funds to shift the slack to the residential market.  It wasn't well thought out, it wasn't part of a public plan, and it wasn't designed for the City to make more money than we put into it.  It was a vanity project, and everyone fell for it.

I'm not necessarily saying that it was wise to spend so much public money on QCS. I think it is an example of corporate welfare, which is something I don't like but I don't see ending any time soon. I am merely stating that QCS and this "trickle down" effect did have some good impacts on our city.

I don't think we are going to see another situation like this any time soon. Western and Southern will be building a much smaller tower, which will not shake up our city like QCS did.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on June 09, 2015, 01:07:01 PM
Moved the hotel/residential discussion here since it has nothing to do with Mayor Cranley.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seanian513 on June 09, 2015, 05:17:54 PM
But even if that is a good analogy, the problem with QCS is that we spent a bunch of public money to create slack in the market and now we don't have public funds to shift the slack to the residential market.  It wasn't well thought out, it wasn't part of a public plan, and it wasn't designed for the City to make more money than we put into it.  It was a vanity project, and everyone fell for it.

What public money was spent on QCS besides the $3.7M for streetscape improvements?  Out of the $322 million for the project, American Financial contributed $318.  There were TIF bonds that were issued by the port, but besides the $3.7M the city paid out for the streetscape improvements, the city has gotten that back in just 6 months after opening due to the $7.7M in annual tax revenue. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/05/26/daily31.html
http://urbanup.net/cities/ohio/cincinnati-ohio/downtown/queen-city-square/ 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PAlexander on June 10, 2015, 09:11:42 PM
But even if that is a good analogy, the problem with QCS is that we spent a bunch of public money to create slack in the market and now we don't have public funds to shift the slack to the residential market.  It wasn't well thought out, it wasn't part of a public plan, and it wasn't designed for the City to make more money than we put into it.  It was a vanity project, and everyone fell for it.

What public money was spent on QCS besides the $3.7M for streetscape improvements?  Out of the $322 million for the project, American Financial contributed $318.  There were TIF bonds that were issued by the port, but besides the $3.7M the city paid out for the streetscape improvements, the city has gotten that back in just 6 months after opening due to the $7.7M in annual tax revenue. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/05/26/daily31.html
http://urbanup.net/cities/ohio/cincinnati-ohio/downtown/queen-city-square/

https://cincyopolis.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/wtf-hamilton-county-board-of-revision-the-real-cost-of-30-year-abatements/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seanian513 on June 10, 2015, 10:52:02 PM
But even if that is a good analogy, the problem with QCS is that we spent a bunch of public money to create slack in the market and now we don't have public funds to shift the slack to the residential market.  It wasn't well thought out, it wasn't part of a public plan, and it wasn't designed for the City to make more money than we put into it.  It was a vanity project, and everyone fell for it.

What public money was spent on QCS besides the $3.7M for streetscape improvements?  Out of the $322 million for the project, American Financial contributed $318.  There were TIF bonds that were issued by the port, but besides the $3.7M the city paid out for the streetscape improvements, the city has gotten that back in just 6 months after opening due to the $7.7M in annual tax revenue. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/05/26/daily31.html
http://urbanup.net/cities/ohio/cincinnati-ohio/downtown/queen-city-square/

https://cincyopolis.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/wtf-hamilton-county-board-of-revision-the-real-cost-of-30-year-abatements/

Ok PAlexander, I went to the web address supplied and it's a blog where somebody appears to be ranting.  There is the portion what I think the person in the blog referred to as subsidies or what is commonly known as a TIF (Tax Increment Financing) which is $54M.  The TIF bonds in the case of QCS are from the taxes that would've gone to the city coffers, but instead go towards repaying bonds.  No money is coming from the city and going to the QCS project.  It's just deferring city taxes on the tower for a period of time in the beginning.  So in the beginning when the city taxes are paid on the building it gets re-routed to repaying the TIF bonds.  The TIF bonds are essentially borrowing against future increases in real estate taxes.

You can see the financing details broken out here: http://www.eaglerealtygroup.com/pdf/052808QCSPortAuthorityApproval.pdf       
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on June 11, 2015, 07:06:31 AM
But even if that is a good analogy, the problem with QCS is that we spent a bunch of public money to create slack in the market and now we don't have public funds to shift the slack to the residential market.  It wasn't well thought out, it wasn't part of a public plan, and it wasn't designed for the City to make more money than we put into it.  It was a vanity project, and everyone fell for it.

What public money was spent on QCS besides the $3.7M for streetscape improvements?  Out of the $322 million for the project, American Financial contributed $318.  There were TIF bonds that were issued by the port, but besides the $3.7M the city paid out for the streetscape improvements, the city has gotten that back in just 6 months after opening due to the $7.7M in annual tax revenue. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/05/26/daily31.html
http://urbanup.net/cities/ohio/cincinnati-ohio/downtown/queen-city-square/

https://cincyopolis.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/wtf-hamilton-county-board-of-revision-the-real-cost-of-30-year-abatements/

Ok PAlexander, I went to the web address supplied and it's a blog where somebody appears to be ranting.  There is the portion what I think the person in the blog referred to as subsidies or what is commonly known as a TIF (Tax Increment Financing) which is $54M.  The TIF bonds in the case of QCS are from the taxes that would've gone to the city coffers, but instead go towards repaying bonds.  No money is coming from the city and going to the QCS project.  It's just deferring city taxes on the tower for a period of time in the beginning.  So in the beginning when the city taxes are paid on the building it gets re-routed to repaying the TIF bonds.  The TIF bonds are essentially borrowing against future increases in real estate taxes.

You can see the financing details broken out here: http://www.eaglerealtygroup.com/pdf/052808QCSPortAuthorityApproval.pdf       

Let me get this straight because I don't really understand how this works: The port authority actually owns QCS, which they paid for by issuing bonds, which W&S immediately bought. So W&S used "their own money" to pay for QCS. However, the bonds will someday come due, because bonds are just debt that someone holds. So the port will have to pay W&S back. They will have raised a lot of the money from the lease income that W&S pays to the port. But $54 million of it will be raised by the TIF, aka diverting the increase in property tax on the improvements (new building) into a fund, which will then be paid out to the bond holder...W&S.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PAlexander on June 11, 2015, 08:04:40 AM
Ok PAlexander, I went to the web address supplied and it's a blog where somebody appears to be ranting.

Ranting, discussuing issues... 6 of 1.

There is the portion what I think the person in the blog referred to as subsidies or what is commonly known as a TIF (Tax Increment Financing) which is $54M.  The TIF bonds in the case of QCS are from the taxes that would've gone to the city coffers, but instead go towards repaying bonds.  No money is coming from the city and going to the QCS project.  It's just deferring city taxes on the tower for a period of time in the beginning.  So in the beginning when the city taxes are paid on the building it gets re-routed to repaying the TIF bonds.  The TIF bonds are essentially borrowing against future increases in real estate taxes.

I believe I understand how the TIF works.  You seem to imply that because it is simply tax money that wouldn't be there if it weren't for the development then it doesn't count as public spending I disagree, because, the development wouldn't be there without the TIF money! The other part that I believe you're forgetting is this project, as far as I'm aware, just moved companies from other downtown office buildings.  That means those other property owners can (and do) get their tax liability reduced because their building are now worth less.  So are you accounting for those losses?

Let me get this straight because I don't really understand how this works: The port authority actually owns QCS, which they paid for by issuing bonds, which W&S immediately bought. So W&S used "their own money" to pay for QCS. However, the bonds will someday come due, because bonds are just debt that someone holds. So the port will have to pay W&S back. They will have raised a lot of the money from the lease income that W&S pays to the port. But $54 million of it will be raised by the TIF, aka diverting the increase in property tax on the improvements (new building) into a fund, which will then be paid out to the bond holder...W&S.

Yeah, it is super confusing.  Bottom line is that the Port Authority owns the building but W&S is the master lessor.  So the question remains for those who think this was a great deal for the City: why did the company that spearheaded the project to build Queen City Square decide to simply be the master lessor of the complex, rather than the outright owner?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: OCtoCincy on June 11, 2015, 08:40:53 AM
Here's another way to look at it.

The most valuable building in downtown won't pay any net new property taxes to the city or county until it is a 30 year old building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Civvik on June 11, 2015, 08:44:01 AM
I think a better question is: Why did Cincinnati TIF a class-A skyscraper?

My guess is that the powers that be see it as spending money on the city's image. And they really, really wanted a new skyscraper after a 20 year drought.

I do struggle to see how this arrangement isn't just socialism with another name. It's not just W&S's project, it's the people's project!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on June 11, 2015, 10:22:44 AM
Because this is how corporate welfare works. A big company says "give us tax breaks or else we'll go somewhere else" -- and usually they aren't bluffing because there are other cities willing to give them those same tax breaks. So, I can't really fault Cincinnati or Western & Southern for playing the game, because that's just how the game is played. The only way this type of thing will end is with a federal policy that prevents all of these tax breaks and poaching between neighboring cities.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 11, 2015, 10:52:32 AM
Because this is how corporate welfare works. A big company says "give us tax breaks or else we'll go somewhere else" -- and usually they aren't bluffing because there are other cities willing to give them those same tax breaks. So, I can't really fault Cincinnati or Western & Southern for playing the game, because that's just how the game is played. The only way this type of thing will end is with a federal policy that prevents all of these tax breaks and poaching between neighboring cities.

Exactly.  States and municipalities should be very limited in what, specifically they can tax (at variable amounts) in order to reduce this zero-sum competition.  It's a bigger problem in the eastern part of the country, where the states are smaller, than it is for California, specifically.  It's very rare that a company picks up from California or elsewhere in the west and moves east.  Recently, Boeing moved from Seattle to Chicago and Toyota is moving from LA to Dallas, but there is much more movement in the east. 



Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seanian513 on June 11, 2015, 11:59:30 AM
Because this is how corporate welfare works. A big company says "give us tax breaks or else we'll go somewhere else" -- and usually they aren't bluffing because there are other cities willing to give them those same tax breaks. So, I can't really fault Cincinnati or Western & Southern for playing the game, because that's just how the game is played. The only way this type of thing will end is with a federal policy that prevents all of these tax breaks and poaching between neighboring cities.

This happens all of the time across the region and across the country, this project is nothing special when it comes to that, but after the tax break is realized, the city does benefit greatly.  People seem to focus on the one negative impact instead of weighing in the pro's as well.   

It was stated from an economic development study, that stated the annual economic impact of the high-rise would be $1.66 billion. The study was conducted by the University of Cincinnati’s Economics Center for Education and Research, and concluded that the building would generate or retain 8,655 jobs worth a total of $388 million annually and that its three-year construction would contribute $715 million to the local economy, as well as 5,388 jobs worth $3.7 million in wages. Upon completion, the tower would contribute $7.7 million in annual tax revenues.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seanian513 on June 11, 2015, 12:10:20 PM
Here's another way to look at it.

The most valuable building in downtown won't pay any net new property taxes to the city or county until it is a 30 year old building.

I can't say that I know the exact specifics on this project and if the $54M is amortized over 30 years, but even with knowing what we do you are focusing on only one aspect of this project.  This building is generating a lot more than that $54 million that it's not receiving or wouldn't have received without this building.  This is done all the time.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seanian513 on June 11, 2015, 12:18:36 PM
Quote
I believe I understand how the TIF works.  You seem to imply that because it is simply tax money that wouldn't be there if it weren't for the development then it doesn't count as public spending I disagree, because, the development wouldn't be there without the TIF money! The other part that I believe you're forgetting is this project, as far as I'm aware, just moved companies from other downtown office buildings.  That means those other property owners can (and do) get their tax liability reduced because their building are now worth less.  So are you accounting for those losses?

No, your tax liability for the building doesn't get reduced because a tenant leaves.  Also, why would you think the buildings are worth less?   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 11, 2015, 12:37:34 PM
Commercial buildings and apartment buildings are valued depending on their current revenue from tenants.  If two identical buildings stand across the street from one another, and one is collecting $100,000/mo in rent and the other is collecting zero, obviously the one collecting rent at this very moment is worth more, even if the empty one can be filled in a year.   

What's more, when a commercial office building like the 580 Walnut Building converts from office to apartments, the city loses most of the earnings tax revenue it was formerly collecting.  So if 580 Walnut goes from 1,000 workers all paying city earnings tax to 250 residents, only half of whom are paying city earnings tax (some residents are retired, housewives, or kids), then obviously the city is out huge $'s. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seanian513 on June 11, 2015, 01:49:02 PM
Commercial buildings and apartment buildings are valued depending on their current revenue from tenants.  If two identical buildings stand across the street from one another, and one is collecting $100,000/mo in rent and the other is collecting zero, obviously the one collecting rent at this very moment is worth more, even if the empty one can be filled in a year.   

What's more, when a commercial office building like the 580 Walnut Building converts from office to apartments, the city loses most of the earnings tax revenue it was formerly collecting.  So if 580 Walnut goes from 1,000 workers all paying city earnings tax to 250 residents, only half of whom are paying city earnings tax (some residents are retired, housewives, or kids), then obviously the city is out huge $'s.

That is not true.  The only institution that looks at what a buildings value is based on tenant occupancy are banks when it comes to borrowing for a loan because they want to see that the building has a current flow of income, but it doesn't change the value of the property.  I have owned apartment buildings and my family and friends still own apartment buildings and trust me when I say they have tried to get their taxes lowered because of low occupancy when there was a slump and it doesn't work that way.  The city will not lower you taxes just because you have issues renting to people or because you're not making enough income on you buildings.

Now when a building is converted from office to living space yes there is a different tax structure.  But the gains that the new office building bring in far out weighs that variance.  We would never be allowed growth and our downtown market would be stagnant because of hanging on to something much smaller.  If Great American pulled 1000 out of that building, but in turn put 2000 in the new tower only filling it 1/2 way, then that means you probably pulled another 2000 or so from other areas.  All of those areas that QCS pulled from get back filled with tenants that do not require or want to pay the sq ft price that QCS charges.  There are always people coming into the market to fill what somebody else left.     
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: KyleCincy on June 11, 2015, 02:54:56 PM
Commercial buildings and apartment buildings are valued depending on their current revenue from tenants.  If two identical buildings stand across the street from one another, and one is collecting $100,000/mo in rent and the other is collecting zero, obviously the one collecting rent at this very moment is worth more, even if the empty one can be filled in a year.   

What's more, when a commercial office building like the 580 Walnut Building converts from office to apartments, the city loses most of the earnings tax revenue it was formerly collecting.  So if 580 Walnut goes from 1,000 workers all paying city earnings tax to 250 residents, only half of whom are paying city earnings tax (some residents are retired, housewives, or kids), then obviously the city is out huge $'s. 

In this case the WS employees just went down the street to a new building, so the city still gets the income tax. And with new residents moving in that is a net gain from a taxing authority point of view.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: KyleCincy on June 11, 2015, 02:59:14 PM
Quote
I believe I understand how the TIF works.  You seem to imply that because it is simply tax money that wouldn't be there if it weren't for the development then it doesn't count as public spending I disagree, because, the development wouldn't be there without the TIF money! The other part that I believe you're forgetting is this project, as far as I'm aware, just moved companies from other downtown office buildings.  That means those other property owners can (and do) get their tax liability reduced because their building are now worth less.  So are you accounting for those losses?

No, your tax liability for the building doesn't get reduced because a tenant leaves.  Also, why would you think the buildings are worth less?   

Yep, if you lose tenants and income your tax liability usually remains the same. If you want it reduced you have to file an appeal, prepare documentation,
and present your case to the appropriate authority. I just helped a client with a case in Downtown Dayton and we won an appeal. Lowered their real estate taxes by over 40%.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on June 11, 2015, 03:25:20 PM
Almost everyone that goes in front of the Hamilton County Board of Revisions and asks to have their property tax lowered succeeds. So, when it comes time to property taxes to actually be paid on QCS, watch them go to the board of revisions and get its tax valuation cut it half.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PAlexander on June 11, 2015, 04:10:09 PM
Commercial buildings and apartment buildings are valued depending on their current revenue from tenants.  If two identical buildings stand across the street from one another, and one is collecting $100,000/mo in rent and the other is collecting zero, obviously the one collecting rent at this very moment is worth more, even if the empty one can be filled in a year.   

What's more, when a commercial office building like the 580 Walnut Building converts from office to apartments, the city loses most of the earnings tax revenue it was formerly collecting.  So if 580 Walnut goes from 1,000 workers all paying city earnings tax to 250 residents, only half of whom are paying city earnings tax (some residents are retired, housewives, or kids), then obviously the city is out huge $'s.

That is not true.  The only institution that looks at what a buildings value is based on tenant occupancy are banks when it comes to borrowing for a loan because they want to see that the building has a current flow of income, but it doesn't change the value of the property.  I have owned apartment buildings and my family and friends still own apartment buildings and trust me when I say they have tried to get their taxes lowered because of low occupancy when there was a slump and it doesn't work that way.  The city will not lower you taxes just because you have issues renting to people or because you're not making enough income on you buildings.

Now when a building is converted from office to living space yes there is a different tax structure.  But the gains that the new office building bring in far out weighs that variance.  We would never be allowed growth and our downtown market would be stagnant because of hanging on to something much smaller.  If Great American pulled 1000 out of that building, but in turn put 2000 in the new tower only filling it 1/2 way, then that means you probably pulled another 2000 or so from other areas.  All of those areas that QCS pulled from get back filled with tenants that do not require or want to pay the sq ft price that QCS charges.  There are always people coming into the market to fill what somebody else left.

Go check some of the valuations for buildings where tenants left for QCS and see if the valuations have changed.  That's the metric that matters.

I'm not sure how you believe that consolidating all the downtown American Financial Corp workers to one building from four or five, and moving Frost, Brown, Todd from the corner of Main & Fifth to Sycamore and Fourth makes any difference for the City in terms of revenue if those spaces aren't occupied.  Unless you're adding workers into the slack you've created, you can't be making any extra money.  The reason the City abates properties is because the payroll tax is more valuable to the City than the property assessment.  So unless you're adding workers, you're not making any money.  That's why the GE news was such a big deal, because it unequivocally brings new workers into the City.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on June 11, 2015, 04:31:53 PM
^American Financial Group was VERY close to moving out to Mason.  QCS was the bargaining chip to get them to stay, so they could consolidate into one class A+ building.  IF QCS wasn't built, do you think the tenants that moved would have stayed in their current buildings for perpetuity? Downtown had to compete with the new competition in Kenwood/Blue Ash/Mason, and new construction was needed after 20+ years of stasis.

I also think QCS made other buildings step their game up, so to speak.  Just as 21C's opening forced the Westin, Hyatt, Hilton, and Cincinnatian to do updates, QCS has caused other office buildings to renovate or convert to other uses.  Several older class B and C commercial buildings have been converted to residential or hotels, which lowers the vacancy rate for downtown and normalizes the market after QCS shook things up a bit.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seanian513 on June 11, 2015, 04:54:13 PM
Quote
That's why the GE news was such a big deal, because it unequivocally brings new workers into the City.
Quote

Yes, I'm also glad they chose Cincy. From my understanding, when GE finally made a decision between Texas and Cincinnati one of the leaning factors in Cincinnati's favor was that Cincinnati had enough available space to occupy immediately because of the space left open in Atrium II of which they now occupy before they open up their HQ being built at the banks.  They wanted to open up a HQ immediately.  Several companies have moved downtown or expanded in the last rfew years because there was space available.  If you have everything leased up it doesn't give any room for growth.     
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on June 11, 2015, 04:55:01 PM
I'm not sure how you believe that consolidating all the downtown American Financial Corp workers to one building from four or five...

American Financial Group consolidated from six buildings to three. The primary driver was to vacate the 580 Building (where the lease was up) and place all the Property & Casualty employees in one location, something none of the six buildings could do. And yes, there were large chunks of land at their disposal in the northern suburbs.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seanian513 on June 11, 2015, 05:08:28 PM
^American Financial Group was VERY close to moving out to Mason.  QCS was the bargaining chip to get them to stay, so they could consolidate into one class A+ building.  IF QCS wasn't built, do you think the tenants that moved would have stayed in their current buildings for perpetuity? Downtown had to compete with the new competition in Kenwood/Blue Ash/Mason, and new construction was needed after 20+ years of stasis.

I also think QCS made other buildings step their game up, so to speak.  Just as 21C's opening forced the Westin, Hyatt, Hilton, and Cincinnatian to do updates, QCS has caused other office buildings to renovate or convert to other uses.  Several older class B and C commercial buildings have been converted to residential or hotels, which lowers the vacancy rate for downtown and normalizes the market after QCS shook things up a bit.

Very much agree, I'm glad it was Cincinnati's gain.  Also with other buildings stepping up their game or using them for something else.  Downtown needed the QCS shakeup.         
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: KyleCincy on June 12, 2015, 08:21:35 AM
^American Financial Group was VERY close to moving out to Mason.  QCS was the bargaining chip to get them to stay, so they could consolidate into one class A+ building.  IF QCS wasn't built, do you think the tenants that moved would have stayed in their current buildings for perpetuity? Downtown had to compete with the new competition in Kenwood/Blue Ash/Mason, and new construction was needed after 20+ years of stasis.

I also think QCS made other buildings step their game up, so to speak.  Just as 21C's opening forced the Westin, Hyatt, Hilton, and Cincinnatian to do updates, QCS has caused other office buildings to renovate or convert to other uses.  Several older class B and C commercial buildings have been converted to residential or hotels, which lowers the vacancy rate for downtown and normalizes the market after QCS shook things up a bit.

I think AFG owns a good chunk of ground in Warren County. City was lucky to keep them downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on June 12, 2015, 01:29:54 PM
Noticed this week that the remaining tan light posts, mostly along 2nd & 3rd Streets, are finally being painted black. Most all in the CBD were painted just before the World Choir Games.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on June 12, 2015, 02:22:45 PM
Good.  I think the black looks much better.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on June 12, 2015, 02:25:25 PM
Same. Tan/beige/brown is one of the worst color groups out there and makes anything, no matter what it is, look bad. It was such an unflattering color. Black still blends into the background but looks significantly better.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on June 12, 2015, 02:59:09 PM
The tan poles blended a lot more than the black with all the limestone and concrete downtown.  It doesn't age so well, I'll grant that, but the black really makes the poles stand out to me.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on June 12, 2015, 03:09:42 PM
But why blend? That word just in and of itself is problematic. Street infrastructure that is decent looking (I actually quite like the Downtown traffic lights in a retro sort of way) isn't made of stone, so why should it blend with stone? If we made everything blend we'd be left with a giant bland palate, something the Midwest suffers from as it is. They stand out more, sure, but black ages well and the fact that they don't blend in with the stone is a positive in my mind.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PAlexander on June 13, 2015, 08:53:01 PM
^American Financial Group was VERY close to moving out to Mason.  QCS was the bargaining chip to get them to stay, so they could consolidate into one class A+ building.  IF QCS wasn't built, do you think the tenants that moved would have stayed in their current buildings for perpetuity? Downtown had to compete with the new competition in Kenwood/Blue Ash/Mason, and new construction was needed after 20+ years of stasis.

I also think QCS made other buildings step their game up, so to speak.  Just as 21C's opening forced the Westin, Hyatt, Hilton, and Cincinnatian to do updates, QCS has caused other office buildings to renovate or convert to other uses.  Several older class B and C commercial buildings have been converted to residential or hotels, which lowers the vacancy rate for downtown and normalizes the market after QCS shook things up a bit.

That's great.  Maybe you're right about the Mason thing.  If that's actually how it worked out, then fantastic.  But it's only to Cincinnati's gain if the City recoups more tax revenue than amount the spent/abated.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: OCtoCincy on June 14, 2015, 02:38:12 PM
It also assumes there were two options. Subsidize the tower all the way, or AFG moved to Mason.

There would be huge costs for AFG to make a move like that. Huge costs.

The city could have given a shorter abatement, etc.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on June 15, 2015, 10:32:05 AM
So you're saying the city was a poor negotiator? I'm shocked!!  :roll:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: chinkley on June 15, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Did the city recently widen 5th street in front of P&G, east of Broadway? The outer foot and a half of the sidewalk looks new, and there is a suspicious dip in the street pavement just on the edge. I'd add pictures but my computer is being silly at the moment.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on June 15, 2015, 10:06:32 PM
^ It's already a monstrous seven lanes wide to begin with, how can it get any wider?  Maybe some utility work, or repairing busted curbs (they're pretty bad on the P&G side of the street). 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on June 15, 2015, 10:07:55 PM
The curb was in really bad shape on that block and that's what they've been working on. They rebuilt the edge of the sidewalk and the curb.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on June 16, 2015, 09:29:12 AM
Curb rebuilds are happening in several places downtown. Walnut Street as part of the Streetcar project; also in other places like 5th Street, Pete Rose Way. Another crew is going around and repairing the old brick paver sidewalks that have deteriorated since the last All-Star Game.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on June 16, 2015, 11:45:15 AM
Kessler Enterprise is planning a $40 million luxury hotel, to be called The Grand Bohemian, at the corner of Sycamore and 6th in the old P&G building. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/06/16/40m-luxury-hotel-in-the-works-for-downtown.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_breakingnews&u=jwmf03J+9tCeITf+6kZ15A0e430e28&t=1434470683

Quote
Kessler Enterprise Inc., which is known for its boutique and luxury hotels, wants to turn the office building at 299 E. Sixth St. into a 125-room, independent hotel. Richard Kessler, president and CEO of the Orlando-based company, said this would the top hotel in the region.
...
One feature that would make the hotel unique is a planned rooftop ballroom. While the Residence Inn at the Phelps now has two rooftop bar areas and the AC Marriott at the Banks is planned to have a rooftop bar, Kessler said he is planning a ballroom on top of the building where guests would be able to view the city, then walk out to balconies outside.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on June 16, 2015, 01:01:01 PM
New thread created in Southwest Ohio Projects & Construction: Cincinnati: Downtown: Grand Bohemian Hotel Cincinnati (299 E. Sixth Street) (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,30158.msg760237.html#msg760237)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on June 17, 2015, 09:04:36 AM
In this article about the Cincinnati Shakespeare Company planning to move to OTR, it mentions that their current home in the Garfield Tower at the corner of Race and Garfield was originally built as a movie theater. Does anybody know if (and for how long) the space ever functioned as a movie theater?

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/life/2015/06/16/homeless-hamlet/28829115/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jdm00 on June 17, 2015, 09:08:39 AM
I don't know that, but I love CSC and am excited about them potentially moving to OTR!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Ram23 on June 17, 2015, 09:35:10 AM
In this article about the Cincinnati Shakespeare Company planning to move to OTR, it mentions that their current home in the Garfield Tower at the corner of Race and Garfield was originally built as a movie theater. Does anybody know if (and for how long) the space ever functioned as a movie theater?

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/life/2015/06/16/homeless-hamlet/28829115/


You can get the book “Stepping Out in Cincinnati” as a free e-book from the library. That would be the place to look when it comes to theaters. I just read it on an airplane a month ago and I don’t remember seeing anything about Garfield Tower, but I’m always half asleep on planes so that doesn’t mean it wasn’t in there.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 17, 2015, 09:40:22 AM
I remember the theatre in the Garfield.  I believe it was called "Real Movies" or something like that, probably closed in the late 80s or early 90s.  Showed second run and indie stuff, a showing of Rocky Horror every weekend.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 17, 2015, 12:11:33 PM
Yeah I remember the exterior of it well because it was opposite The Blue Wisp, which I went to dozens of times, but I never went to it or its famous(?) production of Rocky Horror.  I remember that it claimed to have the third longest-running production of Rocky Horror going back to the year after the movie came out, or thereabouts.  If it was still going they could bring the house down if they got Cranley to cameo as Meatloaf. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 29, 2015, 04:05:27 PM
Suburban developer opens downtown office to give urbanites the HGTV treatment
Jun 29, 2015, 2:02pm EDT   
Andy Brownfield 
Cincinnati Business Courier


A West Chester residential developer has opened a downtown office to give Cincinnatians in the urban core a different way to find, remodel and finance homes.

Christopher Michael Group, a sister company to the West Chester-based Christopher Michael Homes, opened a new office at 227 W. Ninth St. Christopher Michael Homes has been operating in West Chester since 1998.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/06/29/suburban-developer-opens-downtown-office-to-give.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/06/29/suburban-developer-opens-downtown-office-to-give.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on June 30, 2015, 09:02:35 AM
^ A lot to take away from that article.

This was interesting: "Believe it or not, there’s a great deal of property that’s not controlled by 3CDC."

Do people really think 3CDC owns all of OTR? Do people realize how huge OTR actually is? (No, they do not.)

But this quote was pure gold: "I live in West Chester and founded the company in West Chester, but the vibe is obviously downtown."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: hoerstw on June 30, 2015, 09:16:24 AM
I think to a lot of people (most casual weekend visitors) OTR Is purely Main and Vine south of Liberty and Washington Park.. So when the media reports something that happens in the far north sections of OTR people naturally assume it happened in the areas that are more popular at this point.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on July 06, 2015, 04:09:26 PM
I've seen a Google Maps car zigzagging through downtown today. All-Star game related? Not sure how often they do updates... Currently it appears that south of 6th Street was last updated in July 2014, north of 6th Street was September 2014.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on July 06, 2015, 08:35:49 PM
They seem to refresh the Street View imagery pretty often these days. You can click on the little time machine icon to go back to previous street views. At this spot on Main Street (https://goo.gl/maps/K4uI7), there is imagery from July 2014, April 2012, Oct. 2011, Sep. 2011, May 2011, Aug. 2009, and July 2007.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on July 09, 2015, 12:41:08 PM

EXCLUSIVE: Longtime downtown Cincinnati engineering firm moving its office
Jul 9, 2015, 11:15am EDT   
Tom Demeropolis 
Cincinnati Business Courier

 
Fosdick & Hilmer Inc., an engineering services firm that has been in downtown Cincinnati for 110 years, is moving.

The firm is relocating to the newly named Huntington Center, formerly known as 525 Vine, from 309 Vine. The company signed a 13-year lease for about 16,400 square feet of space. It will occupy the entire 11th floor.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/07/09/exclusive-longtime-downtown-cincinnati-engineering.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/07/09/exclusive-longtime-downtown-cincinnati-engineering.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on July 10, 2015, 03:55:56 PM
432 Walnut (The Traction Building) is looking to get historic designation so that it can apply for historic tax credits, to renovate the building into commercial residential use.

Lots of details on the building, including an in-depth history of the building starting on page 50 of the Planning Commission's July 17 packet: http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning-buildings/city-planning-commission/jul-17-2015-packet/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on July 13, 2015, 12:20:27 PM
Kessler Enterprise is planning a $40 million luxury hotel, to be called The Grand Bohemian, at the corner of Sycamore and 6th in the old P&G building. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/06/16/40m-luxury-hotel-in-the-works-for-downtown.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_breakingnews&u=jwmf03J+9tCeITf+6kZ15A0e430e28&t=1434470683

Quote
Kessler Enterprise Inc., which is known for its boutique and luxury hotels, wants to turn the office building at 299 E. Sixth St. into a 125-room, independent hotel. Richard Kessler, president and CEO of the Orlando-based company, said this would the top hotel in the region.
...
One feature that would make the hotel unique is a planned rooftop ballroom. While the Residence Inn at the Phelps now has two rooftop bar areas and the AC Marriott at the Banks is planned to have a rooftop bar, Kessler said he is planning a ballroom on top of the building where guests would be able to view the city, then walk out to balconies outside.



This deal is dead. (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/07/13/exclusive-deal-dead-for-40m-downtown-cincinnati.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on July 28, 2015, 01:59:19 PM
There's construction scaffolding up around 33 W Fourth St (at corner of Race and Fourth). Anybody know what's going on? The building has been owned by "MMF Realty LLC" since 2008, when it was transferred to them by the City for $0.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IBgr7I_Pb2hEZm0joIZ0xcOUXllm-X6MRCwX4P24L7g=w1306-h979-no)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: hoerstw on July 28, 2015, 04:10:46 PM
I noticed this as well... I think it has been up for at least a week or two. Hope someone is planing on utilizing this building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on July 28, 2015, 04:39:04 PM
We need more development between 3rd and 5th to help bridge the gap to The Banks.

Fun story, but at one point there was apparently a tower in the works on the site just south of this building. The old Pogue's building would be demolished and a hotel and apartment tower was proposed for the site. It would have been a Drury Suites. Not sure how far this proposal ever got since I had never heard of it and stumbled upon it looking at this architect's website the other day.

http://www.mullerarchitects.com/project-4/

They also did a proposal for the Gateway Garage in OTR which was a lot more....busy.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Ram23 on July 28, 2015, 10:20:20 PM
We need more development between 3rd and 5th to help bridge the gap to The Banks.

Fun story, but at one point there was apparently a tower in the works on the site just south of this building. The old Pogue's building would be demolished and a hotel and apartment tower was proposed for the site. It would have been a Drury Suites. Not sure how far this proposal ever got since I had never heard of it and stumbled upon it looking at this architect's website the other day.

http://www.mullerarchitects.com/project-4/

They also did a proposal for the Gateway Garage in OTR which was a lot more....busy.

Drury still owns the old Pogue's warehouse and the parking lot just south of it. Despite the recent hotel boom downtown, they haven't done nor proposed anything for the site that I'm aware of.

I tried to contact them for permission to photograph some of the current warehouse space, once, but no one would take my calls or answer my emails.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JYP on July 29, 2015, 04:26:40 PM
There's construction scaffolding up around 33 W Fourth St (at corner of Race and Fourth). Anybody know what's going on? The building has been owned by "MMF Realty LLC" since 2008, when it was transferred to them by the City for $0.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IBgr7I_Pb2hEZm0joIZ0xcOUXllm-X6MRCwX4P24L7g=w1306-h979-no)

Richter & Phillips is moving from across the street into the building.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ryanlammi on July 29, 2015, 04:29:31 PM
^You're thinking of Sixth and Main. This is Fourth and Race.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: OCtoCincy on August 04, 2015, 10:13:24 AM
They had to put that scaffolding up because orders were written against the building for its deteriorating condition.  That $0 sale was negotiated by Chris Bortz and had absolutely no clawbacks for non-development.  Totally idiotic move to help some friends out.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: hoerstw on August 04, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
The former TJ Maxx building complex is on the market, being marketed as a potential conversion to residential with a rooftop garden.

This property now has an "Under Contract" sign on it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on August 04, 2015, 12:16:48 PM
Once again, it is time for DCI's annual Downtown Perceptions survey. If you recall, the survey results had been getting better year over year, but slipped a little bit last year. Please help out by taking the survey yourself as well as sharing it via social media:

http://www.dcisurvey.com/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on August 10, 2015, 09:53:05 PM
The former TJ Maxx building complex is on the market, being marketed as a potential conversion to residential with a rooftop garden.

This property now has an "Under Contract" sign on it.

New landowner could chart future of Fourth St. (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2015/08/10/fourth-street-buildings-downtown/31435205/)

The set of buildings along Fourth Street Downtown that once housed the Gidding-Jenny department store and T.J.Maxx could soon have a new owner.

And that new owner may have an opportunity to add life on a Cincinnati street that has seen substantial changes since the 1800s.

Jerry Carroll, a Northern Kentucky-based real estate developer and developer of the Kentucky Speedway, has a contract to buy three buildings at 8-18 W. Fourth St. from Greater Cincinnati businessman Les Sandler.

The due diligence period may not be complete until October and from there, Sandler said, it will be up to the buyer to determine how to move forward.

The contract price was not disclosed. The asking price of the buildings was $3 million.

Cont (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2015/08/10/fourth-street-buildings-downtown/31435205/)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on August 18, 2015, 07:59:29 PM
So.. the little Rothchild Law building and surrounding lots on the corner of Race and Central Parkway.  Tear that down and put a mid rise with 100-200 apartment units there.  One block form Washington Park and a streetcar stop.  Heck, with a VIEW of Washington Park!   So close to Vine Street bars and restaurants.  In what UNIVERSE is that not filled up from Day 1 and make a boatload of cash.  What are these Cincy developers waiting on?  Are these people still waiting to see how the Internet is going to turn out before they sign that contract with AOL? Jeesh. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: chinkley on August 18, 2015, 09:01:40 PM
So.. the little Rothchild Law building and surrounding lots on the corner of Race and Central Parkway.  Tear that down and put a mid rise with 100-200 apartment units there.  One block form Washington Park and a streetcar stop.  Heck, with a VIEW of Washington Park!   So close to Vine Street bars and restaurants.  In what UNIVERSE is that not filled up from Day 1 and make a boatload of cash.  What are these Cincy developers waiting on?  Are these people still waiting to see how the Internet is going to turn out before they sign that contract with AOL? Jeesh.

on top of that, that part of CP is honestly the nicest. The wide median with mature trees is very appealing visually. Further east the median gets laughably small and useless.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on August 19, 2015, 02:15:10 PM
EXCLUSIVE: New York investor to pour millions into downtown tower
Aug 19, 2015, 2:53pm EDT



A New York City-based real estate private equity firm plans to invest millions of dollars in 250 East Fifth Street, the downtown office tower formerly known as Chiquita Center.

HighBrook Investors acquired the ground leasehold interest in 250 East Fifth Street, the nearly 537,200-square-foot class A office building. The real estate, the building itself and the land underneath, is owned by the Joseph family’s Columbia Development Corp.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/08/19/exclusive-new-york-investor-to-pour-millions-into.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/08/19/exclusive-new-york-investor-to-pour-millions-into.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on August 19, 2015, 02:44:28 PM
^Could the Joseph family be loosening their grip on CBD?  Aren't they the owners of the worst surface lots?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JYP on August 19, 2015, 02:54:52 PM
The family will continue to own the building and the land. Highbrook is taking over the lease which was in foreclosure.

I think this is a good move that will give the building the refresh it needs.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on October 14, 2015, 04:35:57 PM
Everything but the House picks site for downtown Cincinnati HQ
Oct 14, 2015, 3:42pm EDT Updated Oct 14, 2015, 3:46pm EDT
Tom Demeropolis Senior Staff Reporter Cincinnati Business Courier



Everything but the House, an estate sale and auction startup, found its new home in downtown Cincinnati.

The fast-growing company finalized a lease for about 12,500 square feet of space at Fourth & Walnut Centre, located at 105 E. Fourth St. Everything But the House will take the entire ninth floor of the building, with some options to expand.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/10/14/everything-but-the-house-picks-site-for-downtown.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/10/14/everything-but-the-house-picks-site-for-downtown.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on October 21, 2015, 07:09:42 AM
EXCLUSIVE: Growing construction company moving headquarters to downtown Cincinnati
Oct 21, 2015, 6:41am EDT
Tom Demeropolis Senior Staff Reporter
Cincinnati Business Courier


One of Greater Cincinnati’s largest, and growing, construction companies is moving its headquarters to downtown Cincinnati.

Oswald Co., a design-build and construction management firm currently based in Sycamore Township, will move to 308 E. Eighth St. this fall.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/10/exclusive-growing-construction-company-moving.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/10/exclusive-growing-construction-company-moving.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: IAGuy39 on October 21, 2015, 08:43:10 AM
Great news on both fronts.

That is 62 nice paying careers moving to downtown, with an additonal 40 from EBTH by end of 2018.

Some good quotes from Oswald Co. CEO:

"“The more I thought about it and looked at what’s going on in Over-the-Rhine and other areas of the city and how involved we are with different organizations downtown, it made a lot of sense,” Oswald told me."

and

"The move will help the firm attract and retain talent, Oswald said.

“There is a whole new demand for talent, and those employees want to live, work and play where the action is,” he said.
   
Oswald also mentioned the new office will be about a block and a half from the streetcar route."

and

"“There’s an energy that is unlike what the city has ever seen,” Oswald told me."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on November 04, 2015, 10:33:27 AM
On Central Ave, between 7th and 8th, the city replaced the parallel parking on the west side of the street with diagonal parking spots, creating more spaces and reducing traffic from 3 lanes to 2. On the east side of the street, they still have parallel parking. The parking meters were replaced with a kiosk which serves the whole block. This is a cost-effective way to slow traffic down while improving accessibility to the office/businesses on the street. Would like to see this done on more streets throughout the CBD (especially 2nd and 3rd Streets). Here's the streetview of Central when they still had parallel parking on both sides with 3 lanes of traffic (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1027279,-84.5199772,3a,75y,355.24h,85.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM3IFl_4ECggFLmNEjMJVBQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

Why isn't Dusty Rhodes freaking about about losing 1/3 of the lanes (https://twitter.com/AuditorRhodes/status/651119983305486336)?!?!?

Here's the new configuration:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k2HI_RpdDJIdy_WIetUVG7lZK8I41IWoH0b0EEN2d-a1fsecxWgGxVaN249tV3zah05vY00dBaOFnTtROhufUw7ZExnkL4C97rI6jeLiOkc6URyq9h8eBFccb9joiYHdC6Cxj5CfdDrpp3QBNPVHTUjYRFkBrNGeQ3pgkFjQqKX_ni_kMOCkLQSfOC7FMPG329VJR6SLNcbvkDEeuusQJEgUmyGeEQDqTgVmpMLYhUTPNmNPFl-EBJ5u_ZDcX3wj7gAZ6Dlq5ImKeVoT8SL7xviCw-ozv4A21X1xIyZLKGfssMnIZ0BH8kmiDfu696Pr-1dL0PYjKuhbnhAh3WXqGpB6Irr4Ek5tCggQTaQKEpvbnJYwcni-GBeZxlCh2zvGo-7nlwLmrfRjTMyr-0OSsM-zQdbmYlxY1bZALRoyglOKGvTBVJB7PLD6uK3JCheMlAChF7jmemk1MaYOqDhverPnLKma7zjBQ1ArC4hi1E7EYhsAwZIXrmZcq-clC4SVbI6nEBRGcJDqZ9tXjRVG0ondOiDQLxwZHmZw6pdCbhJv=w1292-h969-no)


Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on November 04, 2015, 10:44:14 AM
That's better than what it was before, but Central Avenue really needs to be converted to two-way for its entire length. Too many weird transitions from one-way, to two-way, to one-way, to two-way...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: OCtoCincy on November 04, 2015, 10:47:01 AM
If it's converted to two way that parking will be reverse angle, which is much better anyway. Everyone wins.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on December 15, 2015, 09:59:36 AM
From the Sycamore Township: Kenwood Collection (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,5027.msg782834.html#msg782834) thread:

Quote
Merrill Lynch will move into about half of the sixth floor and the entire seventh floor of the eight-story Tower at Kenwood Collection. It will relocate about 125 employees from its offices in downtown Cincinnati, located in U.S. Bank Tower at 425 Walnut St., as well as from offices in Blue Ash, located in Pfeiffer Woods at 5151 Pfeiffer Road.

Even though Merrill Lynch is moving some of its operations out of Cincinnati, the firm will continue to have a presence downtown. The Merrill Lynch operations in Scripps Center at 312 Walnut St. recently expanded as a result of its continued focus on growing market share. It will continue to have operations in Scripps Center.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on January 08, 2016, 11:51:28 AM
Developer to convert one of downtown Cincinnati’s largest office buildings to hotel
Quote
An out-of-town developer purchased a downtown Cincinnati office complex with plans to convert some of the space into an upscale hotel.

NewcrestImage LLC, a Lewisville, Texas-based company, purchased the Fourth & Walnut Centre buildings at auction for $9.3 million. The three-building complex, located on the southeast corner of East Fourth and Walnut streets, includes a 19-floor tower, a four-floor office building and a six-floor office building. Fourth & Walnut Centre also includes two restaurants, a business center and a 38-space on-site parking structure.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/01/08/developer-to-convert-one-of-downtown-cincinnati-s.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_breakingnews&u=jwmf03J%2B9tCeITf%2B6kZ15A0e430e28&t=1452275285
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on January 08, 2016, 12:06:47 PM
Everything But The House recently announced plans to take over the entire 9th Floor of this building at 4th and Walnut. That corner is shaping up quite nicely with the Renaissance Hotel on the opposite corner.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: IAGuy39 on January 08, 2016, 01:38:00 PM
I actually really like the idea of more hotel rooms.  I think the city can definitely add more.  I also like how they really liven up the street level.  With the attendants waiting outside, customers with luggage coming in, etc.  This all really adds to a ton of vibrancy and will also have a positive effect on bringing in larger events to the convention center, concerts, etc.  I would almost argue that hotels bring more life to a building than converting to apartments, but maybe I'm wrong there?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on January 08, 2016, 01:49:49 PM
I also like how they're making the building a mix of both office and hotel. It's a huge building, so it definitely has capacity for multiple uses. And by having office workers using the building on a daily basis, the restaurant/bar will presumably try to appeal to more than just out-of-town visitors. Which is good news for everybody involved.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on January 12, 2016, 02:04:13 PM
I actually really like the idea of more hotel rooms.  I think the city can definitely add more.  I also like how they really liven up the street level.  With the attendants waiting outside, customers with luggage coming in, etc.  This all really adds to a ton of vibrancy and will also have a positive effect on bringing in larger events to the convention center, concerts, etc.  I would almost argue that hotels bring more life to a building than converting to apartments, but maybe I'm wrong there?

I live in Cincy and every now and then I like to get a hotel Downtown and there's been quite a few times were either no rooms were available or the prices were astronomically high because of the limited availability. We def could use more hotel rooms.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on May 05, 2016, 11:59:57 AM
Good news for 6th St: Neyer is renovating 128 and 130 E Sixth St: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/05/05/exclusive-tom-neyer-buys-2-downtown-cincinnati.html#i1

Those two building are both really beautiful, so it'll be great to get them fully occupied again. With the 580 Building nearing completion and the Terrace Plaza under new ownership, 6th St has the potential to become a really neat subdistrict of the CBD. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on May 05, 2016, 12:16:22 PM
Are these residential or office? Any details?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on May 05, 2016, 12:28:04 PM
MAY 05, 2016 10:32 AM EDT
EXCLUSIVE: Tom Neyer buys 2 downtown Cincinnati buildings for redevelopment
An affiliate of Neyer Holdings Corp. purchased the buildings at 128 and 130 E. Sixth St., known as the Reakirt and Brunswick buildings, respectively, from Kiji Steakhouse Inc. for $2 million.
An affiliate of Neyer Holdings Corp. purchased the buildings at 128 and 130 E. Sixth St.,… more
 
Tom Demeropolis
Senior Staff Reporter
Cincinnati Business Courier
Tom Neyer Jr. purchased two more buildings in the heart of downtown Cincinnati with plans to renovate the properties.

An affiliate of Neyer Holdings Corp. purchased the buildings at 128 and 130 E. Sixth St., known as the Reakirt and Brunswick buildings, respectively, from Kiji Steakhouse Inc. for $2 million. Neyer, chairman and CEO of Neyer Holdings, said he is working on redevelopment plans for both buildings.

“We have a lot of ideas for these properties,” Neyer told me. “We chased them for over two years. They truly are at the center of everything great happening at the core of Cincinnati.”

The two buildings are the only properties between the southbound streetcar stop on Walnut Street and the northbound streetcar stop on Main Street that have not been redeveloped. The former 580 Building, now known as AT580, is undergoing a $50 million redevelopment into a mix of retail, office and residential space. Restaurateur David Falk moved his critically acclaimed Boca restaurant to the former home of the Maisonette at 114 E. Sixth St., part of a $12.6 million Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. project. Next door, 3CDC developed Igby’s, a $3.9 million entertainment venue from Four Entertainment Group.

EDITED: CAN'T POST FULL ARTICLES.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: chinkley on May 12, 2016, 12:21:09 PM
" An out-of-town developer purchased a downtown Cincinnati office building for nearly $3.3 million and plans to renovate the property. "

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/05/12/downtown-cincinnati-office-building-sold-to-become.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on May 12, 2016, 01:00:48 PM
^That's great news! Coincidentally, I walked into that building just this morning (trying to find the Hoxworth office to donate blood, but they've moved south to the Fourth & Walnut building). It's eerie to walk around there because the building is, I think, almost entirely vacant but still accessible. Feels like a ghost town. The building has some unsympathetic treatments (drop ceilings, worn carpet) that appear to have been added in the '80s... but there is still a real sense of the history of the building and I bet the new owners will try to restore as much of the historic feeling as possible. The lobby and elevators off of Walnut have a cool vibe and style. I'm really looking forward to seeing it renovated.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on May 13, 2016, 08:03:01 AM
Does anyone know what's going on behind Union Optical at the corner of Court and Vine? This building had some ugly addition to the rear of the building that is currently being demolished.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on May 13, 2016, 08:23:52 AM
That addition has always looked bad but recently had begun to lean far more than usual and you could see the structural members failing in that the rear was bulging quite badly just above the ground. I'm sure it has just gotten to the point where they were either getting cited or chose to demolish since there was no saving it. Not that anyone should ever try to save such an ugly addition.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: hoerstw on May 13, 2016, 08:27:21 AM
The former House of Adam at 622 Vine was purchased by a holding company with the address of Sieber Construction...looking on their website they only have done suburban residential/office projects. I wonder what plans they have for that property.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Ram23 on May 13, 2016, 08:41:45 AM
Does anyone know what's going on behind Union Optical at the corner of Court and Vine? This building had some ugly addition to the rear of the building that is currently being demolished.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The permit (http://cagis.hamilton-co.org/opal/apd.aspx?entcode=cinc&ezstdadrtag=1|E|COURT|ST|GJ1495431483|||CINC|CINC|00760002022700001C|007600020227|007600020227|CINCINNATI&APD=2016P03681) says it is an emergency demolition as the rear addition was in imminent danger of collapse.

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on May 13, 2016, 08:47:10 AM
Does anyone know what's going on behind Union Optical at the corner of Court and Vine? This building had some ugly addition to the rear of the building that is currently being demolished.


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That addition needed to come down. It looked like an outbuilding at a farm: windowless, patchwork of corrugated metal. I took this picture yesterday (May 12) as I walked by there:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_n8Oaaxtga61qBswPv70-G30g7VdvVe3A3LXpj9fXJuCezJs8t9kckAYJIy5EQBdffQ5spltXynfqQ=w1509-h971-no)

Here's the streetview: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1058108,-84.5141531,3a,75y,35.6h,81.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx704wcTt7rI6R8GZOAtt8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on May 13, 2016, 08:49:39 AM
The rear addition looked like something from a shantytown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on May 13, 2016, 09:46:09 AM
It looks so much better already. I've had many situations where I walked by that with people not familiar with the area and several immediately went, "what the hell is that thing?" pointing towards it. Vacant buildings, empty lots, etc. are bad, but this was what really drew people's attentions as something truly negative. Thebillshark is right, it looked like it belonged in a shantytown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on May 13, 2016, 12:54:42 PM
That building has always stuck out to me as well because of the deplorable addition. The entire building, while not looking like it is beyond saving, has that look of needing some real structural vigilance. Wonder what it's history is.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joetraveler on May 13, 2016, 01:03:17 PM
I've always assumed that place is a front for something. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on May 13, 2016, 01:05:20 PM
I've never seen anyone in there as a customer or a shop clerk. The decor is from the 1960s, as if someone just left it there in the 60s and never returned.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on May 13, 2016, 01:15:03 PM
The other half of the storefront (facing Court) is occupied by the delightful Le's Pho & Sandwiches. I highly recommend their banh mi and pho. The owners are some of the nicest restaurant owners I know in downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on May 13, 2016, 02:11:51 PM
Wow, good riddance to that addition!  It looks like there was even a small fire once in the rear first-floor window. 

https://goo.gl/maps/LtCYEBpbjQR2
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jim uber on May 13, 2016, 02:15:33 PM
:+1: also for Le's Pho
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ajknee on May 13, 2016, 04:50:30 PM
Noooo!!!!  I loved that little ramshackle mess. The random chimneys are a mess. I'm going to miss that relic from another era.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on May 13, 2016, 04:57:18 PM
Looks like only the one chimney on the end is gone, but the big mass of 6 (?) flues a bit farther back is remaining. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thomasbw on May 14, 2016, 01:17:55 PM
:+1: also for Le's Pho


best $4 sandwich in town
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on May 27, 2016, 06:12:37 AM
Now that Pogues Garage is on its way out, I nominate the parking garage across from the Cincinnati Bell building on 7th Street as the worst garage Downtown. It's completely ugly, showing its age, and has no first floor retail. Even worse, it obscures the beauty of Isaac M Wise Temple and Covenant First Presbyterian Church, dominating them size-wise and bringing it's blank walls right up against them.  I would hope such an abomination would never be built today. It might be difficult to raze however- probably depended on by a lot of Bell employees.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on May 27, 2016, 06:59:49 AM
Now that Pogues Garage is on its way out, I nominate the parking garage across from the Cincinnati Bell building on 7th Street as the worst garage Downtown. It's completely ugly, showing its age, and has no first floor retail. Even worse, it obscures the beauty of Isaac M Wise Temple and Covenant First Presbyterian Church, dominating them size-wise and bringing it's blank walls right up against them.  I would hope such an abomination would never be built today. It might be difficult to raze however- probably depended on by a lot of Bell employees.

Agreed 100%. That garage is an abomination. The other one I would love to see redeveloped or redesigned is the P&G garage on 6th. It takes up a whole block, and there is no activation of the ground floor at all. When you view downtown from Mt. Adams, that garage really stands out in a bad way.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: chinkley on May 27, 2016, 07:17:57 AM
Or what about the one on 6th between Elm and Plum, across the Duke Energy Center? It proudly bears a plaque that says it was built by the City of Cincinnati in 1958. Never been in but it looks like the ceiling heights are maybe 7 feet.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on May 27, 2016, 07:42:33 AM
There are a ton of bad garages all around Downtown, but the one I feel is most critical now that Pogue's is finally leaving is P&G's. As much as I really hate all of the ones around the convention center that side of Downtown as a whole isn't seeing much activity so it's not crucial at this point in time to redevelop them. P&G's garage spans an entire block between the tons of development happening just north of it and what's going on south of it. It could very easily be redeveloped into a larger garage with multiple towers on top if they so chose. Put a tower on each end of the lot with ground level retail, a line of 4-6 story "townhomes" spanning the gap between them, and a large garage behind that that serves P&G and the new structures. You've extended the 6th street area east another block, brought in hundreds of new housing units to a part of Downtown that's growing, you've added some nice density to the skyline, and offered a nice variety of product that's not really available much Downtown (the townhomes).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on May 27, 2016, 09:07:03 AM
Good pivot on this subject @thebillshark ! But doesn't this draw in the question of surface lots as well? What is your preference? Develop a surface lot or demo/redev the offending garages?

There are a ton of bad garages all around Downtown, but the one I feel is most critical now that Pogue's is finally leaving is P&G's. As much as I really hate all of the ones around the convention center that side of Downtown as a whole isn't seeing much activity so it's not crucial at this point in time to redevelop them. P&G's garage spans an entire block between the tons of development happening just north of it and what's going on south of it. It could very easily be redeveloped into a larger garage with multiple towers on top if they so chose. Put a tower on each end of the lot with ground level retail, a line of 4-6 story "townhomes" spanning the gap between them, and a large garage behind that that serves P&G and the new structures. You've extended the 6th street area east another block, brought in hundreds of new housing units to a part of Downtown that's growing, you've added some nice density to the skyline, and offered a nice variety of product that's not really available much Downtown (the townhomes).

Just to take an opposing view, I think the other end of DT needs what you are proposing more except with hotel. The P&G garage is not an eyesore or relic in the same way Pogue's, CinBell, and Federated garages are. Hotels would work great on these lots. Or, here's a crazy idea...convention expansion. Close 6th and expand north.

No matter the case, the Federated Garage (7th/8th, Plum/Elm) is a complete insult to that block and the neighborhood. Demo the entire thing. Use the space between Wise and Presbyterian as a pocket park. The south half of the block for new garage and residential tower. Maybe, just maybe this could start to build momentum for W 9th and W Court over there since momentum already exists at the opposite end of town on Main and Sycamore.

Below 6th near P&G is decidedly Financial District in nature and that garage definitely separates residential from it. The issue I have with that block is all of the surface lots that surround it that I'd rather see developed first. I'm curious to hear your more professional opinion.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy513 on May 27, 2016, 09:24:17 AM
That P&G garage really would be perfect for residential units to go on top.  So many people who work in the CBD would be all over living there.  Even though there has been some great progress in that area there are still too many open lots for my liking.  The St Xavier church lot will likely never become anything and god knows the giant Joseph owned lot won't have any activity for the foreseeable future. 

I actually just recently looked for a new apartment right at the corner of 9th and main.  While the apartment itself was nice there's just not much going on in that area.  Yeah you're not a far walk from Walnut St or OTR but that entire eats side of downtown is prime for redevelopment between Walnut and Broadway.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: The_Cincinnati_Kid on June 03, 2016, 12:44:26 PM
Looks like Key Bank is moving into Queen City Square (paywall of course)...

EXCLUSIVE: KeyBank moving downtown Cincinnati headquarters
Jun 3, 2016, 12:03pm EDT Updated Jun 3, 2016, 12:33pm EDT
Steve Watkins
Staff Reporter
Cincinnati Business Courier


KeyBank signed a lease to move its Cincinnati headquarters into Great American Tower.

KeyBank has signed a long-term lease to relocate its downtown Cincinnati headquarters.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/06/03/exclusive-keybank-moving-downtown-cincinnati.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/06/03/exclusive-keybank-moving-downtown-cincinnati.html)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on June 06, 2016, 10:30:59 PM
Just noticed tonight one could combine the surface lot at the NW corner of 7th and Vine with the single story buildings that make up Jean Robert's table and the Garfield Mini-mart to come up with a pretty good site for a residential tower fronting Vine St.

It could form a nice symmetry with the Garfield Suites building, and would be across from a Fortune 500 headquarters (Macy's.)  Garfield Garage could handle the parking requirements. Other sites would fight to be the new home for Jean Robert's Table, and the Garfield mini mart could find a home somewhere (old McHahn's?)

Of course redeveloping the humongous surface lots directly across Vine St. would be pretty nice too!

EDIT: just remembered that Fins Feathers and BBQ and a barber shop is in that building too that would also need new homes. That block does have some character & vibrancy already, and there are certainly less active parts of downtown (especially surface lots) that could be developed first... However, the surface parking lots taking up both the NW and NE  corners of 7th and Vine are a huge issue.
 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on June 10, 2016, 09:36:11 AM
(http://enquirer.com/editions/1998/01/07/tower_400x485.jpg)

It was ugly. Very, very ugly. It was a terrible building.

Dude! Where'd you find that pic? There are a dearth of pics of that building and this one captures what it was like better than perhaps any I've seen. The two story BK. Seems like the whole building was designed with the skywalk in mind.

EDIT: Not sure where the previous post was or how this ended up in this thread. ???
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on June 10, 2016, 10:31:46 AM
I typed in "Fifth and Race Tower" into google images haha. It's the first one that shows up. It was the specific image I was looking for since it shows exactly what you just said. It was designed as a building to be experienced from the skywalk level.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 10, 2016, 10:33:00 AM
I took a few photos of the wrecking ball taking pieces out of it in the summer of 1999.  I'll dig them up sometime. 

The nondescript building at the SW corner of 5th & Elm is also a temporary skywalk-specific building that has been around for decades because the larger lot was never developed.  580, Debois Tower, 525 Vine, Mercantile Arcade, etc were all built with second-floor lobbies as part of the skywalk system.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on June 10, 2016, 10:38:52 AM
The nondescript building at the SW corner of 5th & Elm is also a temporary skywalk-specific building that has been around for decades because the larger lot was never developed.  580, Debois Tower, 525 Vine, Mercantile Arcade, etc were all built with second-floor lobbies as part of the skywalk system.   

One of the strangest places downtown.

(https://cincyopolis.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/convention-place.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on June 10, 2016, 10:48:26 AM
So that's why that terrible pocket park nobody has every used and that weird elevated walkway exist. The original intention was to have a larger building with a more fleshed out second floor lobby occupying that site.

I'd still like to see that (don't particularly care much about the sky lobby part, but whatever) since that corner building is god awful and that pocket park is insulting. And no good businesses occupy that building. That corner has been host to some of the worst bars/night clubs around and there seems to be a revolving door for businesses that occupy it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 10, 2016, 10:51:29 AM
It might sound strange but when all of this stuff was new they got a lot of use because there were a lot more people downtown all the time.  There were many, many independent stores of all kinds all over downtown in addition to 3 or 4 big department stores.  Housewives came downtown during the week to shop and run errands.  So stuff like this was actually used. 

I don't think despite the new hotels and restaurants, that the crackle of excitement is really there in DT Cincinnati that was once there because there isn't the wide array of things going on that once were.  When you go to Manhattan today, the street is more exciting because the 100 people walking on your block are doing 100 different things.  In Cincinnati they're typically doing 3 or 4 different things.     
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on June 10, 2016, 11:12:45 AM
I wonder what that food court was like.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: SleepyLeroy on June 10, 2016, 11:13:57 AM
It might sound strange but when all of this stuff was new they got a lot of use because there were a lot more people downtown all the time.  There were many, many independent stores of all kinds all over downtown in addition to 3 or 4 big department stores.  Housewives came downtown during the week to shop and run errands.  So stuff like this was actually used. 

I don't think despite the new hotels and restaurants, that the crackle of excitement is really there in DT Cincinnati that was once there because there isn't the wide array of things going on that once were.  When you go to Manhattan today, the street is more exciting because the 100 people walking on your block are doing 100 different things.  In Cincinnati they're typically doing 3 or 4 different things.   

I've been looking at all the old CINCINNATI magazines that GOOGLE Books has on line recently and it is crazy full of ads in the 70's and 80's for little privately owned stores that just dont exist anymore. They either went out of business or just cashed out & didnt bother relocating when their block of the city was redeveloped. Plus there were tons of ads for the new suburban office and manufacturing parks trying to lure the little manufacturers and the smaller business out. Looking back at it now the downturn of the city in the 80's and 90's makes sense. THere was also a weird vibe in the articles of the city being for the big players and companies and the little folks getting in the way of us turning into a 'world class city'. Also funny to read all the love for the skywalk and all the new buildings that connected to it as if the ground was made of lava and filled with hobos and the skywalk was where the classy well to do people  walked in the clouds above it all.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on June 10, 2016, 02:26:37 PM
I typed in "Fifth and Race Tower" into google images haha. It's the first one that shows up. It was the specific image I was looking for since it shows exactly what you just said. It was designed as a building to be experienced from the skywalk level.

Ha. Silly me. Guess I never actually did that!

I took a few photos of the wrecking ball taking pieces out of it in the summer of 1999.  I'll dig them up sometime. 

The nondescript building at the SW corner of 5th & Elm is also a temporary skywalk-specific building that has been around for decades because the larger lot was never developed.  580, Debois Tower, 525 Vine, Mercantile Arcade, etc were all built with second-floor lobbies as part of the skywalk system.   

I'd love to see those! Post them this weekend! ;)

I wonder what that food court was like.

I only vaguely remember it. BK stood out to me because I do remember eating there. And Walgreens.



Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on June 10, 2016, 02:32:07 PM
I heard from someone (who works at City Hall) that this building is on their list to be replaced. With what or when, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on June 10, 2016, 02:34:44 PM
Wait, which building? The one at the SW corner of 5th/Elm? That would be a great location for a new residential tower. The Millennium Hotel could be redeveloped into two residential towers as well, the buildings could be completely reclad, the skywalks could be removed, and the ground levels could be redesigned to activate the sidewalk, and the giant lot between 4th and 5th on Plum could be turned into a duel-tower convention hotel like the Mallory administration was trying to get done.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on June 10, 2016, 02:38:19 PM
Yeah the SW corner of 5th and Elm. The one with Level Night Club and Jimmy G's.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ucgrady on June 10, 2016, 02:41:39 PM
There are rumors of the Convention Center expanding into that block south, bridging over 5th street to create an 'L' shaped building. That along with taking over the crumbling Millienium hotel are the two most likely next moves for them, since the Brent Spence re-working isn't likely to open up land to the west any time soon.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 10, 2016, 03:07:48 PM

I'd love to see those! Post them this weekend! ;)

I wonder what that food court was like.

I only vaguely remember it. BK stood out to me because I do remember eating there. And Walgreens.

No I won't get around to digging into that stuff until I'm either laid off again or am sitting on the couch recovering from an injury for a month.  Also, people forget how expensive film and processing was.  It was around 25-40 cents per shot.  So I wish I had taken a lot more of this stuff.  Downtown was totally dead at that time so you didn't have to wait long to have zero people in a photo. 

There are rumors of the Convention Center expanding into that block south, bridging over 5th street to create an 'L' shaped building. That along with taking over the crumbling Millienium hotel are the two most likely next moves for them, since the Brent Spence re-working isn't likely to open up land to the west any time soon.

Well I don't see how they could continue the main hall without having 5th St. dip down like it was traveling under a railroad bridge.  And there are conflicting reports as to whether the convention business is growing or declining nationwide, and so I have no idea why this conversation is even taking place. 







Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on June 10, 2016, 03:21:05 PM
^ Nerd conventions = way up. Most others = down.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on June 10, 2016, 03:46:52 PM
I stopped in at the closing Wendy's (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1769.msg806020.html#msg806020) today for a Frosty... Employees were told that the landlord was not renewing their lease, or the lease of Walgreen's. Skyline however was safe.

Rumors...
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 10, 2016, 04:06:28 PM
I stopped in at the closing Wendy's (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1769.msg806020.html#msg806020) today for a Frosty... Employees were told that the landlord was not renewing their lease, or the lease of Walgreen's. Skyline however was safe.

Rumors...

I'd be more inclined to believe a new office tower or other development was going to replace the garage if the garage hadn't just been expanded about five years ago.  There was a small landscaped lot where the Walgreen's and garage above it is now for 30 or more years.  I think the Wendy's garage opened around 1982. 

Obviously this is some of the most valuable real estate in the city, so perhaps we will see something less than 10 years old torn down. 


Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on June 23, 2016, 02:54:01 PM
More parcels being bought by investors with no clear plan on Court Street. Does anyone know what's going on here? I'd hate for them to raze the block, even if it meant a grocery store.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/06/23/group-of-anonymous-investors-buys-more-property.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on June 23, 2016, 03:10:46 PM
More parcels being bought by investors with no clear plan on Court Street. Does anyone know what's going on here? I'd hate for them to raze the block, even if it meant a grocery store.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/06/23/group-of-anonymous-investors-buys-more-property.html

I think there is a Court Street Historic District that would protect those.  I think the grocery would go either on the lot on the corner of Walnut and Central or else across Central Parkway where the unused non-historic CMHA building is now. I would think that these guys are just trying to cash in on proximity to the potential grocery (and streetcar and OTR.)

I would think these historic buildings are safe but dumber things have happened in Cincinnati!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 23, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
The ramshackle rear addition to the one at the SE corner of Vine and Court was demolished about two weeks ago.  This is the building closest to the library.  If they could put a small restaurant or bar in the building, a rear patio would be visible from Vine. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on June 23, 2016, 03:30:32 PM
I think the buildings on Court are pretty safe because the depth of those parcels is only 70' which would make it very hard to do a garage or any large footprint project.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on June 23, 2016, 03:57:37 PM
I was talking to a developer the other day who has mostly focused on OTR but says he's now interested in developing more in the CBD. It's totally bizarre how we are seeing so many major developments moving forward in OTR, but Downtown is full of underutilized buildings, vacant storefronts, and parking lots. Court Street would be a really logical place for a developer to make the jump across Central Parkway and into the CBD.

To me, this OTR/CBD divide really illustrates the importane of the overall character of the neighborhood. In OTR, you have so many nice, human-scaled streetscapes and public places like Washington Park that make the neighborhood really attractive to businesses and residents. Court Street still has some nice older buildings that can be rehabed, but the scale is really destroyed by a few massive, ugly buildings like the former Cincinnati Post office and the Kroger Building, not to mention all the parking lots. The angled parking in the middle of the street also needs to be removed and replaced by green space or a nice public plaza. Of course, Dusty Rhodes would complain that removing the angled parking is part of the City of Cincinnati's War on Cars!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on June 23, 2016, 04:13:13 PM
I would love to see a market go back in the central parking area. I think it could be a flagship for modern urban markets for Kroger, right at the foot of their headquarters.


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Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on June 24, 2016, 08:38:39 AM
I was talking to a developer the other day who has mostly focused on OTR but says he's now interested in developing more in the CBD. It's totally bizarre how we are seeing so many major developments moving forward in OTR, but Downtown is full of underutilized buildings, vacant storefronts, and parking lots. Court Street would be a really logical place for a developer to make the jump across Central Parkway and into the CBD.

To me, this OTR/CBD divide really illustrates the importane of the overall character of the neighborhood. In OTR, you have so many nice, human-scaled streetscapes and public places like Washington Park that make the neighborhood really attractive to businesses and residents. Court Street still has some nice older buildings that can be rehabed, but the scale is really destroyed by a few massive, ugly buildings like the former Cincinnati Post office and the Kroger Building, not to mention all the parking lots. The angled parking in the middle of the street also needs to be removed and replaced by green space or a nice public plaza. Of course, Dusty Rhodes would complain that removing the angled parking is part of the City of Cincinnati's War on Cars!

"Dusty Rhodes would complain"... is pretty much a given, regardless of the policy idea! The guy complains about everything. Earlier this week, he was whining about the NBA playing basketball indoors in the summer: https://twitter.com/AuditorRhodes/status/744924885265309696
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 24, 2016, 09:49:23 AM
I would love to see a market go back in the central parking area. I think it could be a flagship for modern urban markets for Kroger, right at the foot of their headquarters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it is still technically a market.  There were 1 or 2 booths that still set up a few days per week when I worked downtown 2007-2009. 

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on June 24, 2016, 09:56:38 AM
I was talking to a developer the other day who has mostly focused on OTR but says he's now interested in developing more in the CBD. It's totally bizarre how we are seeing so many major developments moving forward in OTR, but Downtown is full of underutilized buildings, vacant storefronts, and parking lots. Court Street would be a really logical place for a developer to make the jump across Central Parkway and into the CBD.

To me, this OTR/CBD divide really illustrates the importane of the overall character of the neighborhood. In OTR, you have so many nice, human-scaled streetscapes and public places like Washington Park that make the neighborhood really attractive to businesses and residents. Court Street still has some nice older buildings that can be rehabed, but the scale is really destroyed by a few massive, ugly buildings like the former Cincinnati Post office and the Kroger Building, not to mention all the parking lots. The angled parking in the middle of the street also needs to be removed and replaced by green space or a nice public plaza. Of course, Dusty Rhodes would complain that removing the angled parking is part of the City of Cincinnati's War on Cars!

"Dusty Rhodes would complain"... is pretty much a given, regardless of the policy idea! The guy complains about everything. Earlier this week, he was whining about the NBA playing basketball indoors in the summer: https://twitter.com/AuditorRhodes/status/744924885265309696

He doesn't want anything getting in the way of the "American Dream"!

Remember a couple years ago when they tried to have those college basketball games on an aircraft carrier and they had to cancel it after a few minutes when the court got covered dew and fog? Everybody was sliding all over the place and people were going to get hurt.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on June 24, 2016, 11:21:19 AM
I would love to see a market go back in the central parking area. I think it could be a flagship for modern urban markets for Kroger, right at the foot of their headquarters.


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I think it is still technically a market.  There were 1 or 2 booths that still set up a few days per week when I worked downtown 2007-2009.

What I mean is to rebuild a structure that sits in the middle of the street (where cars are now parked). The original was not as beautiful as 6th street Market, but making some kind of modern version of this would be awesome. It probably wouldn't function as Findlay does with separate vendors and probably not a farmer's market, but rather as an urban grocery store with a classic feel. However, this would never happen since Kroger seems to only think about building mega stores.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on June 24, 2016, 11:24:34 AM
Like the Dean and Deluca in Georgetown, but modern.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+DC/@38.9051671,-77.0651766,3a,60y,177.8h,89.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suI21GLIpOejm77dHGFqFsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7c6de5af6e45b:0xc2524522d4885d2a!8m2!3d38.9071923!4d-77.0368707!6m1!1e1
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ColDayMan on June 24, 2016, 03:54:45 PM
The old market reminds me of a Bonanza buffet!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on June 24, 2016, 04:25:38 PM
The old market reminds me of a Bonanza buffet!

There was that Ponderosa out by Eastgate that became a Mexican restaurant...and they kept the Western scene on the front façade!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Eigth and State on June 24, 2016, 04:49:18 PM
Quote
I think it is still technically a market.  There were 1 or 2 booths that still set up a few days per week when I worked downtown 2007-2009. 

I remember those booths, and I also remember when the current streetscape was constructed. As far as I can tell, the Court Street Market was specifically designed with street vendors in mind, but there just aren't very many vendors.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on June 24, 2016, 04:56:28 PM
Man that would be incredibly unique and special if they did end up building a grocery in the middle of Court Street like that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on June 24, 2016, 05:03:11 PM
Man that would be incredibly unique and special if they did end up building a grocery in the middle of Court Street like that.

But to argue with myself- part of the appeal of a modern grocery store over Findlay Market is convenience and space to move around. Sometimes Findlay Market is just too much to deal with. I wonder if a long narrow Kroger shaped like that would get too crowded to use efficiently.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on June 24, 2016, 05:10:45 PM
The Dean and Deluca in Georgetown is on the smaller end, but its not terrible to move around. A modern version could even have 1-3 floors to space things out a bit. Urban grocery stores don't need giant spaces to fit a huge Costco-sized shopping cart. They just need enough space to stock all of the essentials and then maybe some specialty items. I lived above an Amish Market in NY and it was small, but literally had everything I needed and it was not cramped. That Amish Market is only a fraction of the footprint of the Court Street parking area. They had hardware, cleaning supplies, dry goods, fresh meats, canned goods, etc, and even had pre-made food that could be picked up after work for a quick dinner or sandwiches that could be ordered from a counter. If all of that can fit into this Amish Market comfortably, it can most definitely been done at this location.
For size comparison:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7138421,-74.0105848,3a,75y,70.16h,88.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfBJgQBBavjhEjcyxJIzWeA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on June 24, 2016, 05:17:10 PM
I just measured - the Court Street median is about 45 feet across and 360 ft long. This would be about the size of Vine St. OTR Kroger. But if it was two or three stories tall it would be significantly larger!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on June 24, 2016, 05:21:29 PM
The Dean and Deluca in Georgetown is on the smaller end, but its not terrible to move around. A modern version could even have 1-3 floors to space things out a bit. Urban grocery stores don't need giant spaces to fit a huge Costco-sized shopping cart. They just need enough space to stock all of the essentials and then maybe some specialty items. I lived above an Amish Market in NY and it was small, but literally had everything I needed and it was not cramped. That Amish Market is only a fraction of the footprint of the Court Street parking area. They had hardware, cleaning supplies, dry goods, fresh meats, canned goods, etc, and even had pre-made food that could be picked up after work for a quick dinner or sandwiches that could be ordered from a counter. If all of that can fit into this Amish Market comfortably, it can most definitely been done at this location.
For size comparison:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7138421,-74.0105848,3a,75y,70.16h,88.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfBJgQBBavjhEjcyxJIzWeA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The grocery store closest to my new place in Brooklyn is the Pioneer Market directly next to the Parkside stop on the Q. It has a 10,000ish square foot footprint that's oddly shaped and yet packs significantly more variety into its aisles versus the 15,000 square foot OTR Kroger that I did all my shopping at. A big part of that comes from the fact that the aisles are way tighter and there are probably twice as many as in Kroger and they're significantly taller and the product is packed in tighter. That and the cart area is outside on the sidewalk and the entry/exit areas can fit about 4 people total.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on June 24, 2016, 05:22:10 PM
Here's the 6th street market which had at least 2 levels it seems from the picture:
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on June 26, 2016, 11:00:59 PM
I think the placement of a downtown grocery store could be used to revitalize Court Street storefronts and drive all-hours foot traffic to revive retail there.  I made some diagrams of potential store placements and the potential foot traffic patterns along each.

The first two are the SE and SW corners of Walnut and Central respectively.  The SE corner has been rumored for a residential tower/grocery combo.  The SW corner shows the Monro Tire and Brakes next to Kroger HQ being replaced with a store.  These could drive some traffic to Court Street by utilizing the median parking: 

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7733/27852158621_a4e749ba51_b.jpg)

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7492/27827731012_d746ab80b8_b.jpg)

The next one is building a long, narrow store in the Court Street median as we were discussing Friday afternoon.  This is the most unconventional design but may succeed the most in driving the most foot traffic to Court Street:

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7426/27852159531_587a11de09_b.jpg)

Finally there's the Chinedum Ndukwe proposals to build a grocery in the old CMHA site.  This one wouldn't do much for Court Street but would be closer for foot traffic from OTR (especially if they had access via alley from 12th Street):   

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7375/27827730712_4413e6bc95_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on July 03, 2016, 12:11:37 PM
There is construction occurring inside the corner retail area of the Mabley Place garage. The leasing sign is out of the window and it looks like there is a lot of activity on the inside. Has anyone heard what is going in here? I'll take a picture later and post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Toledophisher on July 11, 2016, 08:00:49 PM
Does anyone know what's going into the old Brooks Brothers store across from
Fountain Square? 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on July 11, 2016, 08:08:07 PM
Isn't that where the bookstore has been for several years now?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Toledophisher on July 11, 2016, 10:34:00 PM
Ah!  I'm sorry, the Jos A. Banks!  Sorry for the confusion. Did I miss something announced for that space?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: hoerstw on July 12, 2016, 07:09:02 AM
Jos. A Bank closed rather abruptly, but it looks like work on something new is already starting. I believe it is going to be a bank branch, but could be wrong.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Toledophisher on July 12, 2016, 09:13:59 AM
Yeah I noticed that too.  Essentially one day it shut it's doors and demo work is already proceeding.  It would make sense for a bank branch to go in there, although I was optimistic it would remain more retail oriented. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 12, 2016, 09:32:53 AM
Yeah I noticed that too.  Essentially one day it shut it's doors and demo work is already proceeding.  It would make sense for a bank branch to go in there, although I was optimistic it would remain more retail oriented. 

When I heard Joseph A. Bank was going in, I thought it was a bank. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on July 12, 2016, 09:48:11 AM
That's a shame that Joseph A. Bank closed.  With them and Brooks Brothers gone, that little stretch of Vine has really lost most of its traditional retail base.  We are slowly seeing the retail that Downtown managed to hang on to/lure in the first place against all odds disappear, and that's worrisome for me.  In recent memory, we've lost TJ Maxx, Brooks Brothers, Joseph A Bank, all of the Tower Place retailers (those that were left), Macy's has downsized...It just doesn't seem like we're on a good trajectory here.  If Saks leaves (probably IMO) and Macy's leaves (definite possibility IMO), we will really be in a bad place with downtown retail.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Toledophisher on July 12, 2016, 10:10:57 AM
Yep. Bad and getting worse in terms of retail particularly in the downtown corridor.  They need a big win of sorts, either something new or a remodel of the Macy's etc to stimulate some other growth.

On another note, Jos. A. Banks said they were closing 130+ stores across the country, so again I also think it's a shift in regular retail habits of shoppers as opposed to just Cincinnati.  Retail everywhere is struggling to keep up with the shift in shopping demographic preferences.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JYP on July 12, 2016, 10:26:13 AM
65,000+ workers downtown everyday and we can't figure out how to get them to shop downtown.

Pathetic.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: IAGuy39 on July 12, 2016, 10:47:08 AM
A couple of things:

1.) Add more residents - Live, work, play, shop...

2.) To generate more interest in developers, try to get a grocery store downtown... They really need this, not sure if a chicken or egg thing, but we need a full service grocery store downtown to lure more development and residents

If we can add 5,000 more full time residents in the basin in the next 5 years, I think we are in good shape.  That's a lot, but we need it to support retail.  Obviously more on top of that is a bonus.  DCI reported approximately 1,000 residential units under construction on April 2016. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on July 12, 2016, 11:18:31 AM
In order to keep stores, people need to be raising entire families in urban areas, not just having that first kid there then bolting for the 'burbs when the kid turns 5. Kids and teens force people to spend money on possessions rather than spending it all on nights out.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JYP on July 12, 2016, 01:12:33 PM
A couple of things:

1.) Add more residents - Live, work, play, shop...

2.) To generate more interest in developers, try to get a grocery store downtown... They really need this, not sure if a chicken or egg thing, but we need a full service grocery store downtown to lure more development and residents

If we can add 5,000 more full time residents in the basin in the next 5 years, I think we are in good shape.  That's a lot, but we need it to support retail.  Obviously more on top of that is a bonus.  DCI reported approximately 1,000 residential units under construction on April 2016. 

Definitely agree on the need for downtown residents. If we built three 30 story towers in the next year we still would be nowhere near peak saturation for downtown residential demand.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 12, 2016, 01:31:49 PM
In order to keep stores, people need to be raising entire families in urban areas, not just having that first kid there then bolting for the 'burbs when the kid turns 5. Kids and teens force people to spend money on possessions rather than spending it all on nights out.

It's amazing how few true 4-bedroom houses exist within Cincinnati's city limits.  I'd love to see a breakdown of how many 1 vs. 2 vs. 3 vs. 4 bedroom residences (house, apartment, condo) exist in this city, and then a further break-down of "real" bedrooms vs. bootleg "cape cod" attic rooms.  There is really no such thing as a "spare" bedroom in the city outside of the very large Clifton, Hyde Park, and N Avondale homes that can be used as an office or a guest room. 

So a paradox exists in which people must buy a 4+ bedroom house in the suburbs for the relatively brief period of time when they might have 3+ kids living under their roof.  Then after the kids start moving out, the bedrooms sit there unused for 20+ years.  People seem to hesitate to "downsize" because they want to maintain a place for their family to gather at the holidays.  Then if they do actually downsize, the new place is often a new condo or even a new exurban house (Cincinnati Eastern Bypass!!!) with a guest bedroom and bathroom in the basement.  The "downsized" place is often nearly or even more expensive than the original family home. 



Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 12, 2016, 01:39:04 PM
So continuing the previous post, I'm not sure which cities around the country have gone so far as to mandate a small percentage of 3 and 4-bedroom units in all new mid-rise and hi-rise construction, but it' pretty obvious that they are necessary for a city to truly function. 

And also a number of 3-bedroom single-family homes have gone up in Over-the-Rhine over the past two years, but I suspect that very few will house families with kids.  The extra bedrooms will just be "spare" bedrooms. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: TroyEros on July 12, 2016, 07:33:49 PM
It's confusing to me why OTR is working so well with retail and night life, but CBD is struggling so much.

Then again, I know alot of people who want to live in OTR, and could care less about the CBD. Maybe it has to do with the atmosphere of OTR, and the night life there. It's pretty special, and is a draw for alot of young mellenials such as myself. There's really no, "draw" to want to go and trek anywhere else downtown honestly. But for alot of people my age group, OTR is honestly the only reason why we love Cincinnati as much as we do in the first place

(this is coming from someone who thought that cincinnati was the worst place ever and wanted to move so badly. When my friend took me to OTR I instantly fell in love, and literally felt like I was taken to a hollywood studios theater, shooting a movie in the 20's. I was in aww, and it's what made me want to stay and live in cincinnati. It wasn't for OTR, I could really care less about this city. I'm sorry, it sounds harsh, but that's just how special OTR is for me alot of people my age. It's the heart and soul of cincinnati for alot of us.)

 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on July 12, 2016, 08:02:36 PM
^That's why you don't see people in their 20s in Cincinnati malls (Kenwood a little). Whereas in the smaller Ohio towns you see lots of 20s in the malls.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: TroyEros on July 12, 2016, 08:39:08 PM
It makes me wonder why there hasn't been much demand for a live/play/shop lifestyle in the CBD. It's coming together OTR, slowly, but it's coming together, but in the CBD? Nada.

 Are people just to much attatched to there suburban lifestyle? Are we still a city that's pretty much unknown, thus not gathering outsiders to move into the core. What's the issue? I'm just trying to piece together why...

I hate to say it, but I know alot of people (at least in rich part of montgomery) are "secretly" racist. They won't say they dislike african americans to your face, but at the same time, they tend to avoid them and say backhanded remarks in secret. Again, I'm not lumping every person in this category, but I'm across ALOT of wealthy people in the suburb of montgomery/indian hill, etc who would never consider living downtown because of, "blacks". 

 I'm wondering if Cincinnati is just a generally racist state (especially it's wealthy, dominated white suburbs) , where people avoid living downtown because they like there enclave of wealthy white surbanites, who all drive mercedes/bmw's, etc, while dining in the same resturaunts.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on July 12, 2016, 09:06:30 PM
Not sure. I don't really hang around people like that. I don't know a lot of rich people outside of ones I've met through auto racing. A lot of people default to the suburbs because suburbs are what they know. Having gone to a semi-rural high school, I have been around some in-your-face racists though!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on July 12, 2016, 09:08:47 PM
I will say that Columbus has more of those types of live/work/play spaces in its CBD, but Columbus' CBD is over twice the size of Cincinnati's and we don't have an OTR to pull people away from the CBD. The Arena District is NOT fully separate from the CBD, rather a part of it.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on July 12, 2016, 09:26:37 PM

 I'm wondering if Cincinnati is just a generally racist state (especially it's wealthy, dominated white suburbs) , where people avoid living downtown because they like there enclave of wealthy white surbanites, who all drive mercedes/bmw's, etc, while dining in the same resturaunts.

A lot of those rich people did or still do buy drugs off those guys.  Imagine being the Family Man and walking around with your model family right past spots where you used to buy cocaine in the 80s when you went to Miami. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on July 12, 2016, 09:47:23 PM
Quote
In order to keep stores, people need to be raising entire families in urban areas, not just having that first kid there then bolting for the 'burbs when the kid turns 5. Kids and teens force people to spend money on possessions rather than spending it all on nights out.

Not necessarily the big cities still have quite a few people who fit into this mold and still have way more retail than Cincy does.

I actually feel Cincy has more families than Chicago IMO.  I'm not sure if its suburbanites coming into town, but it always shocks me on weekdays when I'm down in Washington Park just how many young kids are there.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on July 12, 2016, 10:11:23 PM
^ Or Smale
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: urbanpioneer on July 12, 2016, 11:19:49 PM
There are several hundreds of apartments being built within 2 blocks of where I live in the CBD.  Some are already up and running (Seventh and Broadway), some under construction (Sycamore and Eighth, the 580 Building) and condos are planned for Eighth and Main.  After living downtown for decades I can say it's been my experience that services beyond restaurants/bars and parks have been very slow to develop.  In fact, in some ways it's much worse than when I first moved to the CBD but then again changes in certain types of retail as well as shopping habits are world-wide phenomena.

Grocery shopping's not as good as it used to be (no more Court Street Market, Tony Sparto's fruits and veggies; no more Cape Cod fish market).  BUT we still have Avril's Meats.  There are some quirkier small businesses cropping up here and there that I hope can hang on until there are more neighbors around.  Once these hundreds of residential units are completed and filled around me, I'm sure things will change for the better as far as truly useful types of small businesses go.  Even as it is, it's still a LOT more convenient living where I do than living in the suburbs -- or even in OTR.  I can easily walk to the bank, drugstore, library, post office, hardware store, riverfront parks, Macy's and Saks, hair salon, a new wine shop on Main Street (Corkopolis), the Taft and Aronoff theaters, CAC, and of course I can easily walk to countless bars and restaurants.  I hardly ever use the car and once the streetcar's operational I'll use it even less. 

It would be great if there were businesses like furniture stores again downtown.  I miss places like Bankhart's luggage store and M. Hopple stationery and cards.  Thankfully Bromwell's is still here but Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Streets were lined with many useful small businesses of that sort decades ago so I hope there will be a rebirth before too long -- I'm old so I'm anxious to see it happen!
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Toledophisher on July 13, 2016, 12:25:54 PM
Just confirming...

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/07/13/longtime-mens-clothier-closes-downtown-cincinnati.html

"Huntington Bank, which leases about 50,000 square feet of office space in the building, is moving its second-level bank branch to the former Jos. A. Bank space. Huntington is expected to be in the street level space by the beginning of October."
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincy513 on July 13, 2016, 01:06:35 PM
I agree with you that the easiest way to get more retail (and hopefully a future grocery store) downtown is with more residents.  Pretty much every existing apartment complex downtown is 90-95+% full and every new complex that comes open is filling up immediately.   Like mentioned there are several hundred units in the process of being built right now but they honestly need to build more now while the demand is there. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on July 13, 2016, 01:11:55 PM
That comes back to the entire families thing though. Grocers want to sell the big sizes rather than the small ones that you have to pay workers to stock and display. And they want to sell money-dense things like meats for grilling out.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on July 13, 2016, 02:19:21 PM
^ But aren't both grocery stores going to both extremes? And in general, isn't all retail getting "squeezed in the middle"? You either go super-huge/low-cost or you go super-specialized. Kroger could run their big box, low-cost supercenters in the suburbs, and put small, premium Fresh Fare stores in urban neighborhoods. We will never have an Old Navy downtown, but OTR is overflowing with boutique clothing shops.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on July 13, 2016, 02:35:50 PM
Urban areas do get the boutiques. But it seems like people aren't thinking of them when they complain about the lack of shopping. I live (for the nest week or so) half a block from the Grandview Strip where there are nearly 80 businesses. They are so boutiqued that I only patronize 2 restaurants/bars out of the 80 businesses. And I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been over a year since I've been to them. I used to go to the hobby shop a lot but then I quit R/C. Granted, I probably would spend more time on the strip if I was home more than 2 daytime hours a week.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on July 13, 2016, 02:47:04 PM
Urban areas do get the boutiques. But it seems like people aren't thinking of them when they complain about the lack of shopping. I live (for the nest week or so) half a block from the Grandview Strip where there are nearly 80 businesses. They are so boutiqued that I only patronize 2 restaurants/bars out of the 80 businesses. And I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been over a year since I've been to them. I used to go to the hobby shop a lot but then I quit R/C. Granted, I probably would spend more time on the strip if I was home more than 2 daytime hours a week.

Had to look up "Grandview Strip"... looks like an interesting retail destination, @GCrites80s!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HQ0z90ZezDE8w4mqc0u6NclIVRR9Ivx-wcq1_pP5RtWFzpMxtM0fdfpmS3IV0yfu9C-dF_EHCXswYw=w755-h458-no)


Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on July 13, 2016, 03:14:11 PM
Yeah I guess it sounds better in speech than in Google. Grandview Avenue Business District sounds worse in speech than in Google tho.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jdm00 on July 13, 2016, 03:27:08 PM
I will say that Columbus has more of those types of live/work/play spaces in its CBD, but Columbus' CBD is over twice the size of Cincinnati's and we don't have an OTR to pull people away from the CBD. The Arena District is NOT fully separate from the CBD, rather a part of it.

Yeah, Columbus's CBD is weird.  What I really consider "downtown" (e.g., Broad and High) doesn't seem like it has a lot going on in the evenings, but the Arena District is hopping.  It seems far away when you think of how compact the CBD is down here. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jdm00 on July 13, 2016, 03:27:48 PM
There are several hundreds of apartments being built within 2 blocks of where I live in the CBD.  Some are already up and running (Seventh and Broadway), some under construction (Sycamore and Eighth, the 580 Building) and condos are planned for Eighth and Main.  After living downtown for decades I can say it's been my experience that services beyond restaurants/bars and parks have been very slow to develop.  In fact, in some ways it's much worse than when I first moved to the CBD but then again changes in certain types of retail as well as shopping habits are world-wide phenomena.

Grocery shopping's not as good as it used to be (no more Court Street Market, Tony Sparto's fruits and veggies; no more Cape Cod fish market).  BUT we still have Avril's Meats.  There are some quirkier small businesses cropping up here and there that I hope can hang on until there are more neighbors around.  Once these hundreds of residential units are completed and filled around me, I'm sure things will change for the better as far as truly useful types of small businesses go.  Even as it is, it's still a LOT more convenient living where I do than living in the suburbs -- or even in OTR.  I can easily walk to the bank, drugstore, library, post office, hardware store, riverfront parks, Macy's and Saks, hair salon, a new wine shop on Main Street (Corkopolis), the Taft and Aronoff theaters, CAC, and of course I can easily walk to countless bars and restaurants.  I hardly ever use the car and once the streetcar's operational I'll use it even less. 

It would be great if there were businesses like furniture stores again downtown.  I miss places like Bankhart's luggage store and M. Hopple stationery and cards.  Thankfully Bromwell's is still here but Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Streets were lined with many useful small businesses of that sort decades ago so I hope there will be a rebirth before too long -- I'm old so I'm anxious to see it happen!

We bought our new dining room chairs and bar stools at Algin.  Love that store. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: urbanpioneer on July 13, 2016, 04:25:30 PM
^Yeah, Algin's a fine store.  However, there used to be HUGE furniture sections in downtown department stores like Shillito's, Pogue's and McAlpin's.  The best upscale furniture store in the region was down here too -- Closson's, which also featured an art gallery headed by the late Phyllis Weston.  There were art galleries on W. 4th Street owned by Carl Solway, Toni Birckhead, and others.  And there was an Algin-like store on W. 4th Street called Contemporary Galleries that had several floors full of furnishings.  There even used to be an appliance/electronics store on Walnut where Nicholson's is now, called Steinberg's.  There were a couple of other fabric/window treatment/upholstery stores besides The Mill End, which is the only one remaining (and which wants to sell its building).  And of course there were all sorts of places to buy apparel.  There were several movie theaters down here too, which was really great.  Baby Boomers moving to the suburbs as their children reached school age changed everything and resulted in the proliferation of suburban malls, which really hurt downtown.  Now, shopping habits are undergoing another generational change because of Millennials.  And this is good for downtowns, at least for now.  I wonder if they'll also head for the suburbs when they have school-age children?  I suspect some won't since the environment is much more kid friendly than it was 30 years ago. 

I moved downtown just when it approached the cusp of changing from a bustling business district and began its slow but steady decline, not unlike in many other cities' CBDs.  The Aronoff Center For The Performing Arts ushered in the turnaround that's finally picking up steam today.  It really is an exciting time.  But I do miss the old days in some ways.  Downtown's an entertainment hub now -- back then it was a hub for much more.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ColDayMan on July 13, 2016, 09:12:26 PM
I will say that Columbus has more of those types of live/work/play spaces in its CBD, but Columbus' CBD is over twice the size of Cincinnati's and we don't have an OTR to pull people away from the CBD. The Arena District is NOT fully separate from the CBD, rather a part of it.

Yeah, Columbus's CBD is weird.  What I really consider "downtown" (e.g., Broad and High) doesn't seem like it has a lot going on in the evenings, but the Arena District is hopping.  It seems far away when you think of how compact the CBD is down here. 

Think of the Arena District as the original "The Banks" (a district built around sports facilities).  It's on the edge of downtown Columbus, much like The Banks is for downtown Cincinnati.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on August 02, 2016, 09:49:30 AM
Construction of a GreatClips is underway at 128 E 4th Street (Merchantile Center).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on August 02, 2016, 10:59:00 AM
The annual Downtown Perceptions survey is out. Please take a few minutes and complete it: http://www.dcisurvey.com/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on August 04, 2016, 09:21:19 AM
Plum St, south of McFarland has had its sidewalk repaired over the past few days. They replaced the tile with brick that hopefully will last longer and hold up better than the old tile.

The grout/mortar between the tiles was looking pretty worn before, so I'm glad to see the sidewalk repairs... but (sorry if I'm becoming a broken record on this point) I'd really like to see sidewalk repairs/maintenance coordinated so that any scarce funds can be directed towards strategic streetscape upgrades that improve the usability of our streets. If the money needed to be spent on Plum, this stretch of street is way wider than necessary: 50' wide street with onstreet parking leaves ~34' for just 2 lanes of traffic, giving each lane ~17' of width. So it'd be a good candidate to return some of the ROW to widen the sidewalks and/or add bumpouts at intersections. I know that moving curbs would be *much* more expensive than simply replacing the tiles with brick, but it just feels like a waste to put money towards improving the sidewalk on a street that doesn't have the right dimensions/design. I would rather the City leave the old tile in place, and pool money towards projects that can actually improve the usability of the streetscape.

New treatment:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JG1U9ro3ooP3aITmVVn7p40nDLCoMrpTsx_FyFPMTu6vf2NP2ekN2bDh2YkveXl6KQ_dqfs_0XZoHQ=w813-h1084-no)

Under construction:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oFslLLl_syuuXBVyRyaxAfrnkPd6PeRcURv_EvvgFUk10W42KURKCP0rftcbL_5pTeWoIPQCr98cGA=w813-h1084-no)

Old tiles (still in place north of McFarland):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_HBeX_16rg3AoVL0d0QZoQT9_HjRWz4T6WpL4ErVeTc0gAnqUJtw3p0mp2M7KNvuAuHCBmxWTGqDgw=w813-h1084-no)

Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: McLovin on August 04, 2016, 09:38:06 AM
^ But aren't both grocery stores going to both extremes? And in general, isn't all retail getting "squeezed in the middle"? You either go super-huge/low-cost or you go super-specialized. Kroger could run their big box, low-cost supercenters in the suburbs, and put small, premium Fresh Fare stores in urban neighborhoods. We will never have an Old Navy downtown, but OTR is overflowing with boutique clothing shops.
Sort of like Heinen's for Downtown Cleveland. They typically built grocery stores in suburban areas and took a chance to build an urban full service grocery store inside of an old bank building (beautiful btw). Anyway I saw someone use the chicken or the egg situation and seeing Heinen's take a chance in Downtown Cleveland means to me that you have to find a grocer that believes in the potential of your downtown and see the longterm vision. Downtown Cleveland has about 14,000 residents and growing, not the ideal 20-25K you see thrown around and the grocery store is a hit with residents. Now having around 90-100K workers downtown helps but the point stands, Cincinnati needs to find a grocer that see's the bigger picture. Good luck!

Edit: Just realized I'm talking in an urban forum so you know all of this DUH! lol
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on August 04, 2016, 09:54:21 AM
I think the reason we are seeing a few one-off streetscape projects happening downtown right now is that next year is downtown & OTR's street repaving year. They are doing a lot of gas line replacement work on Main between 12th and Liberty in anticipation of the entire streetscape being redone & street being repaved next year. They may be doing streetscapes now on blocks in the CBD where they know the street's going to be repaved next spring/summer.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on August 04, 2016, 09:58:21 AM
^ But aren't both grocery stores going to both extremes? And in general, isn't all retail getting "squeezed in the middle"? You either go super-huge/low-cost or you go super-specialized. Kroger could run their big box, low-cost supercenters in the suburbs, and put small, premium Fresh Fare stores in urban neighborhoods. We will never have an Old Navy downtown, but OTR is overflowing with boutique clothing shops.
Sort of like Heinen's for Downtown Cleveland. They typically built grocery stores in suburban areas and took a chance to build an urban full service grocery store inside of an old bank building (beautiful btw). Anyway I saw someone use the chicken or the egg situation and seeing Heinen's take a chance in Downtown Cleveland means to me that you have to find a grocer that believes in the potential of your downtown and see the longterm vision. Downtown Cleveland has about 14,000 residents and growing, not the ideal 20-25K you see thrown around and the grocery store is a hit with residents. Now having around 90-100K workers downtown helps but the point stands, Cincinnati needs to find a grocer that see's the bigger picture. Good luck!

Edit: Just realized I'm talking in an urban forum so you know all of this DUH! lol

The problem with saying "Cincinnati needs to find a grocer that sees the bigger picture" is that we're the HQ of Kroger. If Trader Joe's or Whole Foods wanted to open a downtown store, I bet Kroger would pull some strings and the city would find a way to delay their permits, etc. However, I would be absolutely delighted if a City Target or urban format Walmarts with a full grocery section opened in the shadow of Kroger's corporate headquarters.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: joshknut on August 04, 2016, 10:01:46 AM
I have heard talk of an urban Target on 4th St next to the Gidding-Jenny building. Not sure if anything will come of that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on August 13, 2016, 08:32:36 AM
Good news for downtown... 850 more employees coming next year:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2016/08/12/pg-moving-850-jobs-downtown/88634368/
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: chinkley on August 13, 2016, 12:30:22 PM
This is more than just good news. It is great news. It is also something that I have long wanted to see happen in cincinnati. Hopefully some of those employees will decide to live downtown or over the rhine, or even other close-in neighborhoods like Walnut Hills. Our corporate community seems to talk a lot about how great downtown and over the rhine are / have become, and I know they use that as a selling factor for prospective employees, but it seems like none have moved their offices into the basin.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: bfwissel on August 15, 2016, 06:55:31 AM
I believe it's a net wash when it comes to the City of Cincinnati because I believe they're shuffling people from the northern part of the city, but I'm also excited about the influx of workers downtown.  I just hope something happens at their old location.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: LesterLyles on August 15, 2016, 10:58:46 AM
I've lived in Cincy for 8 years;  moved from the Northeast.  While I continue to be an advocate of the city and am certainly pleased by some of the positive momentum of the urban core, when I visit other comparable cities, it hits me sometimes how slow Cincy really is. I certainly am not going to compare Cincy to northeastern cities or larger cities like Chicago.  but in visiting C-bus this past weekend, I was absoultely amazed how deveoped their downtown is and how there is a crane on almost every surface lot with new condos/rentals popping up everywhere.  Ifeel like it takes Cinc forever to move on things and we spin our wheels like crazy.  Cincy has such natural/ingerrant gifts and therefore I like the potential and the turnaround in OTR is remarkable but I still cant help the thought thaturban core renewals are happening everywhere and ours actually doesnt feel as special as it could be.   
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: BlackBengal on August 15, 2016, 01:50:07 PM
^ I have been travelling to downtown Columbus multiple times per month for over ten years, and I don't really agree with your observation that it is developing faster.  The Columbus downtown is pretty dead compared to Cincy and seems to be improving at a slower pace than downtown Cincy.  Just my observation.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: OCtoCincy on August 15, 2016, 01:57:39 PM
I believe it's a net wash when it comes to the City of Cincinnati because I believe they're shuffling people from the northern part of the city, but I'm also excited about the influx of workers downtown.  I just hope something happens at their old location.
the net gain occurs if the two buildings get sold and another company occupies them.  Also, we really need the city to incentive transit options and not just parking.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Toledophisher on August 15, 2016, 02:36:17 PM
I would agree with Bengal.  I think Columbus' downtown never feels like it has a lot of synergy. There are literally parking lots everywhere and doesn't seem to have the big city feel to it.  I've always thought it's almost felt suburban at times compared to Cincy.  When I'm in downtown Cincy, it feels like it is a much larger, populated city to me.  But that's just my perception and I may be a bit biased...  I like both cities for their own unique qualities. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: chinkley on August 15, 2016, 02:56:22 PM
I believe it's a net wash when it comes to the City of Cincinnati because I believe they're shuffling people from the northern part of the city, but I'm also excited about the influx of workers downtown.  I just hope something happens at their old location.

a net wash in terms of workers inside the city, but hopefully a net gain in the number of people going out to eat, or choosing to live close to work in the basin
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ColDayMan on August 15, 2016, 03:00:09 PM
Though this is completely off-topic, I'd just like to remind folks that "Downtown Columbus" is massive and has sections that are vibrant and sections that are not. 

*Arena District is certainly vibrant, day or night
*North Market District is certainly vibrant, especially at night
*Discovery District is exploding in growth (condo units; yuppie boxes; grocery store; etc)
*Capitol Square is dead past 5pm but that's typical of downtown office building centers (see anywhere in downtown Cincinnati east of Walnut after 5pm)
*RiverSouth is the emerging "new baby" (much like Cincinnati's The Banks) with exploding growth as well
*Franklin East is a lovely residential district (like, say, Cincinnati's Garfield Place/Piatt Park)
*East Broad is a hot mess/parking lot central

So yeah, it depends of what part of downtown Columbus you are discussing.  As a whole, there are several mini-downtowns within downtown Columbus and depending on which one you're in, you'll either be disappointed or you'll be elated. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JYP on August 15, 2016, 03:15:58 PM
And don't forget not all of downtown Cincy is vibrant either.
The Banks is most active during game days.
Fountain Square and east downtown during the day and weekends.
Downtown west of Race is the biggest dead spot next to the parking lots off Eggleston.

Also regarding tower cranes and parking lots, most of the development in Cincy's CBD & OTR is historic rehab. Projects like 4th and Walnut, 4th and Plum and 309 Vine are big projects and we'll never see a tower crane for those.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jjakucyk on August 15, 2016, 03:37:27 PM
In the grand scheme of things, Cincinnati's downtown is quite solid in that there's not much in the way of surface parking lots compared to what you see elsewhere.  Sure it's not 100% building, but it's better than a lot of similar sized cities.  So Columbus may need all that construction, tower cranes, etc., just to catch up, while Cincinnati rests on its laurels.  Of course, that's dangerous as Columbus (similar to Nashville and many sunbelt cities) builds momentum and can easily rocket ahead of Cincinnati.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 15, 2016, 04:21:23 PM
Nashville has a very different "downtown" than Cincinnati's.  It is much more entertainment focused and has far fewer office jobs, perhaps half as many.  So it has more for visitors, but is not a serious center of business activity. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Toledophisher on August 16, 2016, 09:11:33 AM
Let's add Coca Cola to the list of companies moving downtown. :-)  It looks like about 60 people or so.

"Coca-Cola Co., the world’s largest beverage company, is moving at least some of its local operations to downtown Cincinnati from Blue Ash.

Coca-Cola (NYSE: KO) signed a long-term lease for nearly 14,000 square feet of space in the Center of 600 Vine. The company will occupy a large portion of the third floor in the downtown office tower. The space has been vacant for several years
."


http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/08/16/exclusive-coca-cola-moving-local-operations-to.html?ana=fbk
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Rabbit Hash on August 16, 2016, 12:05:53 PM
In the grand scheme of things, Cincinnati's downtown is quite solid in that there's not much in the way of surface parking lots compared to what you see elsewhere.  Sure it's not 100% building, but it's better than a lot of similar sized cities.  So Columbus may need all that construction, tower cranes, etc., just to catch up, while Cincinnati rests on its laurels.  Of course, that's dangerous as Columbus (similar to Nashville and many sunbelt cities) builds momentum and can easily rocket ahead of Cincinnati.

Cincy is sooo compact. Makes for actual street canyons in a midwest city.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: seicer on August 16, 2016, 01:09:19 PM
Too bad they aren't going back in their historic Coca-Cola bottling plant on Dana :)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: subocincy on August 16, 2016, 02:30:32 PM
In the grand scheme of things, Cincinnati's downtown is quite solid in that there's not much in the way of surface parking lots compared to what you see elsewhere.  Sure it's not 100% building, but it's better than a lot of similar sized cities.  So Columbus may need all that construction, tower cranes, etc., just to catch up, while Cincinnati rests on its laurels.  Of course, that's dangerous as Columbus (similar to Nashville and many sunbelt cities) builds momentum and can easily rocket ahead of Cincinnati.
Hmmm, Cincinnati's downtown... What this should encompass has long been a contentious point of disagreement between the 3-Cs. As it stands, both Cleveland and Columbus can justifiably brag about how much larger in area their downtowns are than that of Cincinnati. Yet whenever Cincinnati advocates include OTR and Pendleton, etc, in any residential headcount, the other two cities almost always object.  So, keeping this in mind, two revealing sets of stats contrasting two downtowns:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/22/how-much-has-the-population-grown-in-cincinnati-s.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2016/07/26/state-of-downtown-columbus-population-nearing-8k.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: ColDayMan on August 16, 2016, 03:00:44 PM
Yeah, I don't know what world you're seeing but in reality, the other 2C's do not "object" to OTR/Pendleton as part of downtown Cincinnati; Cincinnatians object to it as they are quite absolute about neighborhood boundaries (see OTR vs. Pendleton).  I don't think anyone outside of I-275 cares what Cincinnati calls "downtown." 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: GCrites80s on August 16, 2016, 04:00:42 PM
Tough to get Columbusites to know what a "Pendleton" is.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: subocincy on August 16, 2016, 04:51:50 PM
Yeah, I don't know what world you're seeing but in reality, the other 2C's do not "object" to OTR/Pendleton as part of downtown Cincinnati; Cincinnatians object to it as they are quite absolute about neighborhood boundaries (see OTR vs. Pendleton).  I don't think anyone outside of I-275 cares what Cincinnati calls "downtown." 
Let's just say that on a competing urban centered web site, I've learned the hard way to tip toe lightly when comparing downtown population stats - and, especially so concerning Cincinnati vs. Cleveland.  They talk about 14,000, we talk about 16,000 - but in a downtown maybe half their size.  Somebody always get mad.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on August 16, 2016, 04:55:41 PM
Tough to get Columbusites to know what a "Pendleton" is.

The only people arguing over "Pendleton" are gentrifiers, not natives. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on August 16, 2016, 05:17:37 PM
IMO "Downtown Cincinnati" consists of three neighborhoods: the Central Business District, Over-the-Rhine, and Pendleton. I intentionally refer to "Downtown" when I mean the entire basin area, and "Central Business District" when I mean just south of Central Parkway.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on August 16, 2016, 05:53:06 PM
^ I think that is the definition of downtown that makes the most sense. If Columbus counts the area by North Market downtown, we should definitely count OTR. I like the unifying aspect of calling all of the basin downtown, but I do think that the differences in scale and land use between the CBD and OTR are great, and it does sort of make sense for them to be viewed separately. I think a good solution to this would be to refer to Downtown (CBD), OTR, Pendleton, and the West End as Center City. That would give a collective name to the different neighborhoods, while letting them exist as their own neighborhoods with neighborhood councils and everything, and not just be relegated as downtown "districts".
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on August 16, 2016, 06:35:56 PM
^i think what you describe as "Center City" is already known as "the basin." Not too well known, but known. Plus I think "Center City" is already associated with Philadelphia.

I use Travis's definition of downtown a lot, especially if I am talking to a suburbanite and don't want any questions/commentary about OTR, I just say I live downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on August 16, 2016, 07:13:40 PM
Yeah I suppose the basin does kind of exist as a localized version of city center. Btw lots of places use city center to describe their urban cores, not just Philadelphia, though theirs is certainly well known. All throughout Europe, city center is used to describe the dense, historic core areas and it seems to work pretty well as a general term.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on August 16, 2016, 07:26:06 PM
The 2016 (data year 2015)DCI report gives an estimate for the 45202 zip code (not aligned with neighborhood boundaries) of 15,933 people. http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/docs/default-source/Stakeholder-Docs/2016-state-of-downtown.pdf

The 2014 (data year 2013) report breaks it down by neighborhood (perhaps extrapolating from the last census) CBD - 5,598 OTR - 7,023 Pendleton - 900. http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/docs/default-source/20th-anniversary-docs/2014_sod.pdf?sfvrsn=2

To follow up on the above would "the Basin" include Queensgate or Lower Price Hill by anyone's definition? What about Camp Washington? Northside? (stretching it, but it did get flooded during the great flood of 1937...)
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: PAlexander on August 17, 2016, 06:08:27 PM
To follow up on the above would "the Basin" include Queensgate or Lower Price Hill by anyone's definition? What about Camp Washington? Northside? (stretching it, but it did get flooded during the great flood of 1937...)

The Basin is essentially all the flat area that is surrounded by the adjacent hills.  So Pendleton, Downtown, OTR, the West End, Queensgate, Lower Price Hill (the last two were all part of the West End at some point). It's called the Basin because the hills surround it like a wash basin, I believe.  Geographically Camp Washington is a northern extension of it but I don't believe it is typically considered to be a part of it when the term is used.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Jimmy_James on August 17, 2016, 10:34:51 PM
^By that definition, Covington and Newport would be included as well, but that probably isn't the way most locals think of it.  That's how it functions and how visitors would probably view it, though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on August 18, 2016, 08:49:09 AM
IMO "Downtown Cincinnati" consists of three neighborhoods: the Central Business District, Over-the-Rhine, and Pendleton. I intentionally refer to "Downtown" when I mean the entire basin area, and "Central Business District" when I mean just south of Central Parkway.

Metro Buses feel the same way, the moment you enter the basin the bus tells you you are in Downtown.  Its not after central parkway.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Robu on August 18, 2016, 08:56:11 AM
Yeah I suppose the basin does kind of exist as a localized version of city center. Btw lots of places use city center to describe their urban cores, not just Philadelphia, though theirs is certainly well known. All throughout Europe, city center is used to describe the dense, historic core areas and it seems to work pretty well as a general term.

I think you've inadvertently stumbled upon the difference between "city center" (a generic term) and "Center City" (a part of Philadelphia).

ETA: I'm all for Cincinnati using "the basin" to refer to its neighborhoods in the area surrounded by hills. IMO, Camp Washington is a stretch -- extend the topographic boundary and it's cut off.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on August 18, 2016, 09:13:48 AM
^Center City Philadelphia is a part of Philadelphia, but it is still comprised of multiple neighborhoods.  It's not like Center City is just what they choose to call their CBD.  They've popularized the term for Americans, but it's the same concept as Center City Geneva, Amsterdam, etc. I don't see what the difference is.

As far as the basin goes, technically the valley along I-75 continues from the river to about Sharonville, where the hills kind of subside, and things flatten out a bit more uniformly. Jimmy_James is also correct that the basin, in the topographical sense, would also cover Newport and Covington.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Robu on August 18, 2016, 10:03:53 AM
^ Center City is a part of Philly.

City center (notice the word order is flipped) is a generic term for the urban core of a city, used all over the world.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on September 23, 2016, 01:19:50 PM
Got in an argument with some guy on reddit that downtown demand has fallen in Downtown Cincy over the last 2 years, any validity to this?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on September 23, 2016, 01:21:48 PM
No. What was his claim based on?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on September 23, 2016, 01:27:34 PM
He was supposedly connected to all the landlords downtown.

Typical internet troll - it was an argument over the Dennison Hotel Restoration.  Best point he did bring up was that supply is artificially constrained - there are a lot of vacant buildings that aren't getting restored, however for some reason he used that as justification for the Dennison not being restored?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on September 23, 2016, 01:31:29 PM
Some people are convinced that the resurgence of Downtown and OTR is just a temporary fad and pretty soon it will fall out of favor and some other neighborhood will become trendy. They assume it will happen because they watched it happen to Mt. Adams, Newport on the Levee, and other places. They can't comprehend that what's happening now is very, very different.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: neilworms on September 23, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
Some people are convinced that the resurgence of Downtown and OTR is just a temporary fad and pretty soon it will fall out of favor and some other neighborhood will become trendy. They assume it will happen because they watched it happen to Mt. Adams, Newport on the Levee, and other places. They can't comprehend that what's happening now is very, very different.

Mt Adams is still very high value for residential right?  The only place where its slowed is in restaurant/bar trade.

The other neighborhoods - yes I understand and its a core part of why Cincinnatians are so freakin cynical about urban redevelopment.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on September 23, 2016, 02:13:39 PM
Yeah I think Mt. Adams is still doing fine in terms of residential, just struggling in the bar/restaurant space.

I think what people fail to realize is that OTR and Downtown is quickly becoming a place where Baby Boomers are moving. So while the party crowd might move on to another neighborhood, OTR is building up a strong base of people that have the money to eat a nice restaurants a dozen times a month, frequent fancier bars, coffee shops, and retailers. Even if the "here today/gone tomorrow" bar crowd leaves OTR and goes somewhere else, that's not going to impact places like Taft's Ale House or Zula or Japp's.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmicha on September 23, 2016, 02:54:20 PM
Which I can sort of understand. The difference between OTR/Downtown's resurgence and various other short lived "entertainment district" type areas like NotL is that it's part of a much larger cultural shift that people haven't seen in their lives. The last time cities and urban areas were seen as a good place to invest in and live in was pre-WWII. And Cincinnatians aren't known for getting out much so they haven't ever seen the progress essentially all American cities are making towards being very livable and long-term successes. It'll catch on eventually that this isn't just some half-baked plan but rather a long-term growth just beginning, but it'll happen eventually.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Toledophisher on October 10, 2016, 01:35:43 PM
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/10/10/national-fast-food-chains-are-coming-back-to.html

I know many of you have mixed emotions on non-local, fast food.  But I actually think this is a great addition to the Downtown Cincy Scene.  Taco Bell Cantina is coming to the @580 building.  This will be unique in itself for a while and offer some late night food options.  Also, I saw that t-Mobile is opening a store on Fountain square as well on 6th street.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on October 10, 2016, 01:54:21 PM
I'm in full support! For downtown to become a more livable place, we need more options that appeal to everyone, and it's great that Taco Bell is deciding to open a location downtown. I still don't understand why the Big 3 burger places have all pulled out of downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Brutus_buckeye on October 10, 2016, 03:06:28 PM
Still wish we had a Wendy's. I don't like fast food but when I do, Wendy's is where we go. The 4th street place was kinda gross at the end but it could have been invested in.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cincinnatus on October 11, 2016, 12:37:27 PM
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/10/10/national-fast-food-chains-are-coming-back-to.html

I know many of you have mixed emotions on non-local, fast food.  But I actually think this is a great addition to the Downtown Cincy Scene.  Taco Bell Cantina is coming to the @580 building.  This will be unique in itself for a while and offer some late night food options.  Also, I saw that t-Mobile is opening a store on Fountain square as well on 6th street.


How do you know TMO is building a new store on FS? Is it under construction?
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: hoerstw on October 11, 2016, 12:47:33 PM
There is a coming soon/grand opening sign with T Mobile logo on the back side of Fountain Square next to GNC and Panera.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: old edale on October 11, 2016, 01:15:04 PM
I saw a jewelry store moved into the old gallery space at 5th and Race.  Definitely an upgrade, and it's good to see more street level retail there.  I hope the gallery can find a new spot in the CBD, though.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on October 15, 2016, 11:58:43 AM
With the impending changes at 4th & Walnut Centre, Hoxworth is pulling out of downtown.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: taestell on October 15, 2016, 03:46:53 PM
I wasn't aware that Hoxworth even had a presence downtown. I had assumed their operations were completely on UC's medical campus.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on October 16, 2016, 04:59:16 PM
With the impending changes at 4th & Walnut Centre, Hoxworth is pulling out of downtown.
That's a bit odd/unfortunate because they moved into the 4th & Walnut building fairly recently (in the last 2 years) from their previous office at 5th and Walnut (the Tristate Building).
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: Cygnus on October 18, 2016, 08:46:47 PM
I wasn't aware that Hoxworth even had a presence downtown. I had assumed their operations were completely on UC's medical campus.

"Hoxworth operates several Neighborhood Donor Centers conveniently located in Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky."

Neighborhood = Anderson, Blue Ash, Ft. Mitchel, Mason, Tri-County, Western Hills
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jmecklenborg on November 10, 2016, 11:45:42 PM
Portland, OR is losing their Downtown Macy's:
http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/11/macys_confirms_sale_closure_of.html#incart_river_index

That downtown has much more retail than does Cincinnati, so that's not a good sign for our store. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: thebillshark on November 11, 2016, 05:58:28 AM
Portland, OR is losing their Downtown Macy's:
http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/11/macys_confirms_sale_closure_of.html#incart_river_index

That downtown has much more retail than does Cincinnati, so that's not a good sign for our store.

Do they own the Fountain Place store here in Cincy though? One of the main drivers of this is Wall Street is pressuring them to make money off their real estate.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: JYP on November 11, 2016, 07:15:24 AM
Portland, OR is losing their Downtown Macy's:
http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/11/macys_confirms_sale_closure_of.html#incart_river_index

That downtown has much more retail than does Cincinnati, so that's not a good sign for our store.

Do they own the Fountain Place store here in Cincy though? One of the main drivers of this is Wall Street is pressuring them to make money off their real estate.

No they lease it and the lease expires in 2018 I believe.
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on January 04, 2017, 02:48:09 PM
A developer from Indianapolis is planning on converting the building at 813 Broadway into condos:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/01/04/exclusive-high-end-condos-coming-to-downtown.html
Title: Re: Cincinnati: State of Downtown
Post by: jwulsin on January 05, 2017, 11:59:03 AM