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Author Topic: In The World: Korea  (Read 6635 times)

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Offline Ram23

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #240 on: May 30, 2018, 04:53:04 PM »
Kim Jong Un reportedly cried over North Korea's bad economy, and it could show he's ready to cave to Trump

http://www.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-reportedly-cried-over-n-korea-economy-before-trump-talks-2018-5

A video of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un crying about his country's terrible economy while surveying its coast is said to be making the rounds among the country's leadership ó and it could be a sign he's ready to cave in to President Donald Trump in negotiations.

Japan's Asahi Shinbun quoted a defector with contacts inside the country as describing a video in which a narrator explains Kim is crying that he can't improve North Korea's economy.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #241 on: May 30, 2018, 05:12:07 PM »
Burger Joint?  It would be awesome if it was Frisch's. 

Offline X

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #242 on: May 30, 2018, 11:21:59 PM »
^^Uh, oh, there's no crying in dictatorships.  Pretty sure that's the first rule of being a strongman.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #243 on: June 12, 2018, 12:17:41 AM »
Kim Jong Un looked a little nervous getting out of his limo, as if he is suspicious that he is being set up for an assassination.  He didn't seem to be accompanied by his own security guys. 

Online E Rocc

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #244 on: June 12, 2018, 05:15:48 AM »
Kim Jong Un looked a little nervous getting out of his limo, as if he is suspicious that he is being set up for an assassination.  He didn't seem to be accompanied by his own security guys. 

The thought occurred to me:  what if he is a well brainwashed double?

Online freefourur

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #245 on: June 12, 2018, 08:11:43 AM »
Kim Jong Un looked a little nervous getting out of his limo, as if he is suspicious that he is being set up for an assassination.  He didn't seem to be accompanied by his own security guys.

I thought that maybe the CIA was going to try and pull off an assassination attempt.  But it looks like all that happened is that China is giving them relief from sanctions while they continue their brutal regime.  Kim has played Trump.  He has gotten everything he could've asked for and more.  I think he was just buying time when he began talks with Moon.

Online freefourur

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #246 on: June 13, 2018, 09:40:21 AM »
I was reading on twitter (I can't remember who posted it) that this summit and Trump's comment have actually made us less safe. The thinking is that inevitably KJU will fire off another missile or do some other hostile maneuver.  Trump will either have to admit that they don;t have an actual agreement (no likely based on his own words) or he'll resort to a military response to appear tough. That made some sense to me.

Offline Ram23

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #247 on: June 13, 2018, 10:16:22 AM »
^ If nothing else, I'm impressed by the sheer amount of creativity behind such a statement. It's like a thought exercise - how can we make up a narrative in which peace is actually more dangerous than war? There's an underlying aura of Orwell here - it's like trying to come up ways to convince people that black is white.

Online freefourur

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #248 on: June 13, 2018, 10:18:14 AM »
^ If nothing else, I'm impressed by the sheer amount of creativity behind such a statement. It's like a thought exercise - how can we make up a narrative in which peace is actually more dangerous than war? There's an underlying aura of Orwell here - it's like trying to come up ways to convince people that black is white.

What commitment to peace do we have that we didn't have prior to the summit?  Please be specific.  I predict that I will bump 3x before I get an answer.

Offline Ram23

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #249 on: June 13, 2018, 10:26:02 AM »
What commitment to peace do we have that we didn't have prior to the summit?  Please be specific.  I predict that I will bump 3x before I get an answer.

We have a statement of intent that clearly states the leaders of both nations commit to peace:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/politics/read-full-text-of-trump-kim-signed-statement/index.html

"The United States and DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula."

I predict you'll move the goalposts now and pretend like that didn't answer your question.

Online freefourur

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #250 on: June 13, 2018, 10:28:33 AM »
What commitment to peace do we have that we didn't have prior to the summit?  Please be specific.  I predict that I will bump 3x before I get an answer.

We have a statement of intent that clearly states the leaders of both nations commit to peace:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/politics/read-full-text-of-trump-kim-signed-statement/index.html

"The United States and DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula."

I predict you'll move the goalposts now and pretend like that didn't answer your question.

You didn't answer my question.  I asked for a NEW commitment.  NK has made the same commitments previously.  Try again.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #251 on: June 13, 2018, 10:31:13 AM »
How is this different than the Six-Party Talks or the Agreed Framework?

Online freefourur

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #252 on: June 13, 2018, 10:32:50 AM »
How is this different than the Six-Party Talks or the Agreed Framework?

It's weaker.  ;D

Offline Ram23

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #253 on: June 13, 2018, 10:43:11 AM »
You didn't answer my question.  I asked for a NEW commitment.  NK has made the same commitments previously.  Try again.

You asked "What commitment to peace do we have that we didn't have prior to the summit?" I provided the commitment to peace that Trump and Kim wrote, together, at the summit; as it was created at the summit, we obviously didn't have it prior to the summit. I think your actual complaint here is that North Korea has made statements in the past that appear similar to this new statement, but such a complaint fails to recognize the historic significance of this new statement having been crafted and signed in person by Trump and Kim.

In the grand scheme, I think this meeting was significant and important, and I'll hold off the rest of my judgement until a final deal is crafted, and hopefully submitted to the Senate for approval as a formal treaty.

Online freefourur

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #254 on: June 13, 2018, 10:46:20 AM »
You used a lot of words to say there is no peace agreement.   Thank you
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:16:21 AM by freefourur »

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #255 on: June 13, 2018, 11:02:44 AM »
In the grand scheme, I think this meeting was significant and important, and I'll hold off the rest of my judgement until a final deal is crafted, and hopefully submitted to the Senate for approval as a formal treaty.

Your entire position in this thread until the last couple months was that the U.S. must make the first move - strike first to destroy NK's weapons.  Now you're all aboard the peace train?  Weird.

Also:
How is this different than the Six-Party Talks or the Agreed Framework?

And/or:
For those that believe the Trump-Kim summit was a success I have two requests:

1) What is in this deal that was not in the many previous agreements since 1992?

2) What do you believe North Korea's understanding of "denuclearize" is?

Thanks.

Offline KJP

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #256 on: June 13, 2018, 11:48:39 AM »
The Hill

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@thehill
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CNN trolls Fox News with old footage of hosts ripping Obama for suggesting summit with Kim http://hill.cm/2cwY1hX
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Offline X

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #257 on: June 13, 2018, 03:20:16 PM »
You didn't answer my question.  I asked for a NEW commitment.  NK has made the same commitments previously.  Try again.

You asked "What commitment to peace do we have that we didn't have prior to the summit?" I provided the commitment to peace that Trump and Kim wrote, together, at the summit; as it was created at the summit, we obviously didn't have it prior to the summit. I think your actual complaint here is that North Korea has made statements in the past that appear similar to this new statement, but such a complaint fails to recognize the historic significance of this new statement having been crafted and signed in person by Trump and Kim.

In the grand scheme, I think this meeting was significant and important, and I'll hold off the rest of my judgement until a final deal is crafted, and hopefully submitted to the Senate for approval as a formal treaty.


"Intent" vs "commitment".  It's nice that Trump/Kim have sat down and stated together that they "intend" to pursue peace.  They haven't committed to anything.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #258 on: June 14, 2018, 05:18:29 PM »
http://www.hughhewitt.com/senator-tom-cotton-on-the-singapore-summit/

Quote
There is a school of thought that the United States should not sit down, that the United States president should not sit down with two-bit dictators. I think thereís some validity to that school of thought with the exception once those dictators have nuclear weapons. You know, countries like Iran and Cuba and other two-bit rogue regimes donít have nuclear weapons, yet. They canít threaten the United States in that way. Once North Korea had nuclear weapons, once they have missiles that can deliver them to use, I would liken it to past presidents sitting down with Soviet dictators.

This is sitting Senator Tom Cotton.  He's saying we should only sit down with dictators AFTER they've gotten nuclear weapons.  Insane.

Offline X

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #259 on: June 14, 2018, 05:41:40 PM »
He just basically told all rogue regimes that the way for them to achieve international legitimacy is to obtain nuclear weapons.  Well, really Trump told them, but he's reiterating the point for them.

Offline Ram23

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #260 on: June 14, 2018, 09:04:50 PM »
This is sitting Senator Tom Cotton.  He's saying we should only sit down with dictators AFTER they've gotten nuclear weapons.  Insane.

Any dictator that is successfully developing nuclear weapons but doesn't yet have them should be eliminated. Once they have them, you're obviously faced with a different situation. Unfortunately, several past presidents have mucked up what should have been a simple concept. Dictators that capitulated and ceased nuclear weapons development were ousted, anyways (Libya). Dictators that weren't successfully developing them were fought and ousted (Iraq). Dictators that were in the midst of successfully developing them were given softball deals to slow down a bit, instead of being ousted (Iran). Dictators that were nearly complete with developing them were completely ignored and allowed to complete their work (North Korea).

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #261 on: June 14, 2018, 09:24:41 PM »
This is sitting Senator Tom Cotton.  He's saying we should only sit down with dictators AFTER they've gotten nuclear weapons.  Insane.

Any dictator that is successfully developing nuclear weapons but doesn't yet have them should be eliminated. Once they have them, you're obviously faced with a different situation. Unfortunately, several past presidents have mucked up what should have been a simple concept. Dictators that capitulated and ceased nuclear weapons development were ousted, anyways (Libya). Dictators that weren't successfully developing them were fought and ousted (Iraq). Dictators that were in the midst of successfully developing them were given softball deals to slow down a bit, instead of being ousted (Iran). Dictators that were nearly complete with developing them were completely ignored and allowed to complete their work (North Korea).

The mental gymnastiics to justify anything Trump does is astounding.

Offline ryanlammi

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #262 on: June 15, 2018, 08:22:43 AM »
Ram really wants to go to war to show the world how tough we are. I'm sure he'll be the first to enlist if we declare war on Iran.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: In The World: Korea
« Reply #263 on: June 15, 2018, 08:27:00 AM »
Ram really wants to go to war to show the world how tough we are. I'm sure he'll be the first to enlist if we declare war on Iran.

The Ram/Cotton doctrine if we extrapolate it:

"Do not negotiate with dictators and despots who are merely TRYING to acquire nukes.  If possible, take them out.  Negotiate with them AFTER they've acquired nukes."

Utter insanity.