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Author Topic: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes  (Read 3440 times)

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Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2012, 12:17:53 PM »
I always liked the idea as long as it it retractable.  Fact is, I just never understood how its minimal use durign the year justified the maintenance costs.  Putting on a roof would open up the venue for larger concerts that can't fit into the Q or Wolstein, and which promoters tend to shy away from booking here due to the potential catastrophe of a rainout.  I could also see it being tied into CC and spurring development not only on the port's land to the north, but also increasing the need for more routine waterfront line service and other forms of public transportation heading to that part of downtown

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #91 on: September 19, 2012, 12:41:19 PM »
^ Naming rights... there ya go, another idea that just makes too much financial sense to ignore.

The Fan 92.3 is ground zero for this discussion. Baskin or Phelps (sorry i can't tell their voices apart) responding to some fans who think it's a waste of money:

"If you think this roof proposal is only about Browns football, you're living in the stone age. It's bigger than that. This is a move toward bringing Cleveland back onto the world stage."

I like this comment!  Both of these guys are very passionate.

Baskin and Phelps have a great show.  And they've been trumpeting this issue for some time now (though as recently as last week they were discussing because this became news again).

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #92 on: September 19, 2012, 12:49:44 PM »
I really prefer football be played in the weather, but if it can bring greater use to the building the other 355 days of the year and it can be paid for with naming rights, go for it.

Offline BelievelandD1

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #93 on: September 19, 2012, 01:49:51 PM »
^Agree with everyones assessments.  Put a sliding lid on that stadium.  Leave it open for all browns games (with exception of blizzards like Buffalo circa 2007)  I, for one, would like to play in those conditions, but if fans are staying home because of it and the only points being scored are safetys and Phil Dawson field goals that he has to kick 30 feet to the right in order for it to blow through...then close the roof.

On the other hand, seal that thing up and let Dave Gilbert do his magic to get Final Fours, Superbowls, etc. here.  If the Super Bowl will go to Indianapolis and Detroit they sure as hell will come here.  Conventions are nice, and maybe we could score a college bowl game?  Haslem looooves his college football.

Offline Loretto

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #94 on: September 19, 2012, 01:58:42 PM »
Once you put a retractable roof on that thing it's going to be closed for all inclement weather. Even if the static portions of the roof cover much of the spectator areas the first time the season ticket holders of the high end seats are rained on (falling or blown) when they could have avoided it by closing the roof it's never going to be open to weather again.

Also, there is no chance Haslam is going to front the bill for the roof even with naming rights money. It's just not logical to expend an asset he has complete control over (naming rights money) in exchange for an asset that he will be a joint beneficiary of (a retractable roof). Even if the naming rights could cover the cost of the roof, which is not likely he's going to hit us up for all the repairs and upgrades his teams can think of in order to come out sunny side up on the other end; just like any other interaction of a professional sports team and a city/county.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #95 on: September 19, 2012, 02:27:20 PM »
Well, why isn't the stadium used more in warm weather months? 
Will putting a roof on it make it more viable all year?

I guess my point is, what kind of events do you need a stadium for, that an arena or convention center can't provide.
From the PD article
Haslam said he wants the city to get more use out of the facility. "Anything that helps us do that. . . we're certainly going to take a look at it," he said.


I think people are jumping to conclusions that he means a dome.  I would expect a hotel and maybe some entertainment venues, connected to the stadium.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #96 on: September 19, 2012, 02:33:44 PM »
Well, why isn't the stadium used more in warm weather months? 
Will putting a roof on it make it more viable all year?

I guess my point is, what kind of events do you need a stadium for, that an arena or convention center can't provide.
From the PD article
Haslam said he wants the city to get more use out of the facility. "Anything that helps us do that. . . we're certainly going to take a look at it," he said.


I think people are jumping to conclusions that he means a dome.  I would expect a hotel and maybe some entertainment venues, connected to the stadium.

Honey Boo Boo (you are in the South). We're all just speculating.  I'm sure he's going to the move to maximize the value of his product (the Browns).  The more people I can keep coming downtown to a browns related facility is more money in his pocket.  I also have a sneaky suspicion he would like to see the East Bank continue to the lake front.

This picture says, "develop me, now"

Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #97 on: September 19, 2012, 02:47:41 PM »
@CleveChiNola, what events do you need a stadium for that an arena or convention center can't provide? Plenty.

Superbowl
NCAA Championship Game
Wrestlemania
Certain major concerts.
Could help attract an RNC or a DNC.

Like someone said earlier, this is about reintroducing Cleveland to the world stage. Period.

The fact of the matter is a stadium without a dome will NEVER, EVER get as much use as a stadium with a dome. Common sense. Could we use it more during the summer months? Yeah. But even then, everyone's not crazy about having an event in a place exposed to the rain. OR if its too hot. Its not just about the snow. Its about the elements in general, which is always more extreme close to the lake.

Haslam is NOT talking about a hotel or entertainment venue. He's talking about a dome. His answer was in direct response to a question about a dome. He said in August that he's interested in lakefront development so that may come down the line, but make no mistake, Haslam was talking about exploring the possibility of a ROOF.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 02:48:59 PM by inlovewithCLE »

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #98 on: September 19, 2012, 03:07:04 PM »
Even during the warmer months, the option of closing off the stadium to the elements is a necessity for certain events.  Promoters who book large concerts really fret about scheduling something in CBS because they lose their shirt if the concert has to be cancelled.  I imagine exhibits face the same dilema.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #99 on: September 19, 2012, 03:28:47 PM »
You know, upon hearing some more about this from various people, I think Haslam was trying to placate Councilman Polensek, long an advocate of adding a roof to the stadium. Haslam was joined by Browns legal counsel Fred Nance who surely prepped him for Polensek's question. It doesn't mean he won't consider it, but it wasn't an issue until today.......

Consider MKC's Aug. 30, 2012 interview of Haslam:

On if he’s contemplated putting a dome on the stadium: “We have not. We have spent some time at the stadium. We’ll have three really well-known stadium architects walk through. I do think there’s some enhancements for the fans that need to be done. What, I don’t know. The scoreboard is the obvious thing to look at. We want to give our fans a great venue.”

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/08/exclusive_interview_new_browns.html
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 03:29:20 PM by KJP »
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Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #100 on: September 19, 2012, 03:54:14 PM »
Well if this is the case then he does have more money than God...would really like to see him spending his bags of money on other lake front projects rather than doming the stadium.

I think putting a lid on CBS would stimulate development of the surrounding properties.

I used to be completely against the dome idea, but have since changed my mind.  I think a dome could really expand the appeal of Cleveland as a city to host large events. 

If CBS gets a roof, then I think this creates a need for a convention-sized hotel.

Stadiums are good for sporting events but not for all but the biggest of convention events.   I would hope someone would do a cost analysis on this, or that the new ownership has the firepower to be guaranteed a big event like the Superbowl or Final Four.

Offline BelievelandD1

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #101 on: September 19, 2012, 04:17:04 PM »
Not to go too off topic, but the NCAA is contemplating not holding final fours inside of stadiums anymore.  I know its only one event and isnt a deal breaker, but just stating current public knowledge of the Final Four.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2012, 05:41:27 PM »
My contribution.......

Cleveland Browns: Is the Owner-in-Waiting Trying to Put a Lid on City Officials?   
By Ken Prendergast (Contributor) on September 19, 2012

Northeast Ohio sports fans are abuzz after prospective Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam III said he would bring in three prominent stadium architectural firms to suggest changes to the city-owned lakefront stadium. He said changes could include putting a roof on the 13-year-old, open-air facility.

....But Crain’s Cleveland Business assistant editor Joel Hammond said during a Sept. 19 interview on 92.3-FM The Fan that Haslam was probably trying to be responsive to Polensek, the city’s longest-serving active councilperson (35 years). Hammond said Haslam was probably prepped by Browns general counsel Fred Nance to expect Polensek’s question.

....If the architects to be hired by Haslam say the roof is feasible, Haslam's preference of selling the naming rights to the stadium could be a revenue source. For example, Ford Co. paid $40 million over 20 years for Detroit’s stadium. H.J. Heinz Co. paid $57 million over 20 years for Pittsburgh’s. Lucas Oil paid $122 million over 20 years for Indianapolis’. Bank of America will pay $140 million over 20 years for Charlotte’s. And Minneapolis’ new stadium could rake in $15 million per year over 30 years, or $400 million.

READ MORE AT:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1340833-cleveland-browns-is-the-owner-in-waiting-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-city-officials
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #103 on: September 19, 2012, 06:30:16 PM »
Not to go too off topic, but the NCAA is contemplating not holding final fours inside of stadiums anymore.  I know its only one event and isnt a deal breaker, but just stating current public knowledge of the Final Four.

Interesting, I didn't hear this.  Another possibility that hasn't been mentioned is the Big Ten Championship for football.

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #104 on: September 19, 2012, 07:01:55 PM »
Does anyone know if Corna's retractable roof had a solution for the open-end corners or notches in the stadium.   Those would still be open and the cold would come in. I can see this as ok for a football game but for Political Conventions  or Final Four those corners would have to be closed off

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #105 on: September 19, 2012, 09:25:08 PM »
Does anyone know if Corna's retractable roof had a solution for the open-end corners or notches in the stadium.   Those would still be open and the cold would come in. I can see this as ok for a football game but for Political Conventions  or Final Four those corners would have to be closed off

Yes, those would be enclosed as well using a curtain of solid material. It wouldn't support any weight except its own, so it doesn't need to be too substantial.
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2012, 08:39:30 PM »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #107 on: September 21, 2012, 07:13:00 AM »
Wonder if he knows about Corna's "suspended roof" concept?

Source: Architects Say Adding A Roof Would Be A "Nightmare"
Sep 20, 2012 -- 4:42pm
By: Will Burge

When Jimmy Haslam III was asked by the Cleveland City Council on Wednesday morning whether or not he would explore the idea of a retractable roof on Cleveland Browns Stadium, he said that he has three architect firms coming to examine what improvements can be made. The entire city instantly went abuzz at the thought of a roofed stadium on the lakefront.

Today, a source inside the Cleveland Browns organization told ESPN Cleveland that one of the architect firms called the project a “nightmare” in a phone conversation. The architects have yet to examine the stadium in person but said the idea of rerouting the entire HVAC system and making system modifications would be a tall task.

The source also said that figuring out how to put in new support beams would be an issue. Any shifts or additions to the preexisting beams would cause a change in all levels of the stadium and would also force a face lift of all existing floor plans.

READ MORE AT:
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=5231
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #108 on: September 21, 2012, 08:18:18 AM »
The criticism that was made when the stadium was designed if I recall correctly was that even if they didn't want to build a roof at that time, they could have designed the stadium so that a dome could be added later.

Offline Hootenany

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #109 on: September 21, 2012, 08:53:42 AM »
^The Browns Stadium project was rushed and it shows.  The only thing they really got right was the capacity (BIG) and sizing the field large enough to be used for international soccer matches.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #110 on: September 21, 2012, 09:18:36 AM »
^I didn't know that fun fact.  Ironic that Lerner couldn't get an international match, when he owns an international soccer team

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #111 on: September 21, 2012, 10:34:55 AM »
Actually I am not a 100% sure but I believe the field is too small for the International Soccer. I remember reading about this a few years ago. You would have to check with our soccer experts or with FIFA but the field was fast tracked and does not meet either international or Olympic size requirements.

Offline Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #112 on: September 21, 2012, 10:44:13 AM »
The criticism that was made when the stadium was designed if I recall correctly was that even if they didn't want to build a roof at that time, they could have designed the stadium so that a dome could be added later.
With changing construction design, materials, and code, it seems silly to assume what you build today would be applicable for a dome/roof designed 20 years later. There is a good chance whatever they built then wouldn't even work for a modern structure today.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #113 on: September 21, 2012, 10:46:23 AM »
Actually I am not a 100% sure but I believe the field is too small for the International Soccer. I remember reading about this a few years ago. You would have to check with our soccer experts or with FIFA but the field was fast tracked and does not meet either international or Olympic size requirements.

Not true, the stadium field was built to accomodate international soccer.  How else could CBS have hosted International soccer games in 2010?
 
From the browns website:  http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/stadium/about-the-stadium.html
Quote
Playing Field: The field is a Kentucky Bluegrass irrigated field with a sand-soil root zone and an underground heating system containing nine boilers and 40 miles of underground piping. The heating system helps to keep the field from freezing and extends the growing season of the turf. Field has been designed to accommodate international soccer as well, with dimensions of 69 yards by 114 yards.

Offline Boreal

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #114 on: September 21, 2012, 11:12:50 AM »
^The Browns Stadium project was rushed and it shows.  ...
How true.  If they had more time, they could have bought different real estate and placed it where it won't get gale force* winds.
Who wants to sit in the upper deck in January? 
Why doesn't the NFL season start before Labor Day so we don't have to??

*Ok, half-gale

Offline tedders55

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #115 on: September 21, 2012, 12:01:09 PM »
Actually I am not a 100% sure but I believe the field is too small for the International Soccer. I remember reading about this a few years ago. You would have to check with our soccer experts or with FIFA but the field was fast tracked and does not meet either international or Olympic size requirements.

Not true, the stadium field was built to accomodate international soccer.  How else could CBS have hosted International soccer games in 2010?
 
From the browns website:  http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/stadium/about-the-stadium.html
Quote
Playing Field: The field is a Kentucky Bluegrass irrigated field with a sand-soil root zone and an underground heating system containing nine boilers and 40 miles of underground piping. The heating system helps to keep the field from freezing and extends the growing season of the turf. Field has been designed to accommodate international soccer as well, with dimensions of 69 yards by 114 yards.

Exactly.  I remember going to USA v Venezuela in 2006 or so.  They have actually only hosted 2 games, that one and USA v Germany in 2010 (Women's)

FYI: Here are FIFA's Requirements.  While CBS can and has held international soccer matches, the size of the stadium makes it a bad fit.  Even internationally there are not that many stadiums that are over 60K.  With the proliferation of Soccer Specific stadiums built for MLS teams most future World Cup qualifiers will go to them.  Mostly because those stadiums put the fans almost right on the field.  However, if the USA were to host another World Cup there would be a better chance for CBS to host a game.  Especially since they have real grass (one of the reasons that Seattle, even with their crazy support, wont get a WC qualifier).  So now we just need to go to Zurich and bribe all the FIFA officials we can find. ;)

And to steer this back on topic, I agree with the sentiment that a few years ago I was completely against a roof but now a retractable roof is something I'd be open to.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 12:04:58 PM by tedders55 »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #116 on: September 21, 2012, 01:09:27 PM »
And to steer this back on topic, I agree with the sentiment that a few years ago I was completely against a roof but now a retractable roof is something I'd be open to.

Was that intentional? :)
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Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2012, 01:25:35 PM »
Probably, unless the statement gets retracted.

Offline AJ93

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2012, 01:27:08 PM »
We should probably put a lid on these puns.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations, changes
« Reply #119 on: September 21, 2012, 02:15:36 PM »
I understand the desire for this project.  As people have noted, the current soul-less Browns stadium was rammed through on the voters, has robbed a giant section of the lakefront for redevelopment and is useful for less than 20 events per year.  Personally, I'd prefer a retractable dome; I gave up the rah-rah craziness of freezing my tuchus off for the Browns during snowy, freezing temps back when I was in my 20s.  And, yes, I'd love to see more events, concerts and other indoor events in our stadium; including, yes, giving Cleveland the chance to host an NCAA Final 4 and a Super Bowl (see the 'we need more downtown hotels' thread)... That crap about football being meant to be played in those elements is .... just that.  Modern fans prefer to watch the games in comfort, especially given today's ticket prices -- if they don't get it at the stadium, they'll get it in their cozy homes or sports bars in front of huge HD flat screens ... That being said, it is the wrong time for this subject to be broached with a horrible, losing franchise in a financially devastated city ... unless Jimmy's going to foot the bill.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 02:18:30 PM by clvlndr »