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Author Topic: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign  (Read 28334 times)

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Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3180 on: September 11, 2017, 01:18:04 AM »
Those barriers are an eyesore.

There's a company who's already looking for more appealing solutions for the jersey barriers downtown. Those are there for Homeland Security concerns with weaponized vehicles, but the concrete is only a temporary solution. Hopefully pretty soon we'll have some black brass pedestrian poles, hopefully something appealing to the rust belt history of Cleveland...

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3181 on: September 11, 2017, 09:45:40 AM »
No more room for compromise on Cleveland's Public Square #transit
https://t.co/e4HUOAS0DW

I definitely agree with the writer's sentiments.  Cleveland should be doing more things first class -- like the Flats, UC Uptown and Ohio City -- and even much of downtown today (and even though the PHS chandelier is a little goofy, I definitely don't hate it as much as this writer).  The settling mentality is the old Cleveland and the Public Square adventure portends to be just that -- unless the City can fix the ugly barricade situation and soon.  Even with the ugly barricades in the background, the Euclid/Tower City half of the Square is still attractive and lively.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:32:23 AM by clvlndr »

Offline DevonianShale

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3182 on: September 14, 2017, 04:27:51 PM »
Concrete planters are now painted green AND filled with plants! (Baby steps...)



Offline mu2010

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3183 on: September 14, 2017, 04:34:58 PM »
They have those barriers in lots of public spaces now unfortunately, though not ideal, they don't have to totally ruin a place as long as everything else is done well.

Offline Matches

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3184 on: September 19, 2017, 10:07:03 AM »
The barriers contravene the entire design of the Square's promenade, which was the unifying factor of the design.  Whether they're ugly as the concrete K-rails currently in place or something less visually offensive, the design has been compromised and we've now got 2 separate halves of a once unified square.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3185 on: September 19, 2017, 10:59:11 AM »
Those barriers are an eyesore.

Still mad at Cleveland Scene and Sam Allard for their public outcry re: the extra 221 seconds I spent on the bus everyday.

Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3186 on: September 19, 2017, 11:09:37 AM »
It's not about the buses.  It's Frank Jackson
being petty.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3187 on: September 19, 2017, 04:29:00 PM »
Those barriers are an eyesore.

Still mad at Cleveland Scene and Sam Allard for their public outcry re: the extra 221 seconds I spent on the bus everyday.

Last time I checked there are ZERO barriers on the south side at Ontario.   One truck could hop the curb and wreak havoc, but Frank Jackson seems none too concerned about that. It's all about proving a point after trying to keep transit out of the square.

Offline Matches

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3188 on: September 19, 2017, 09:28:14 PM »
The added barriers that I noticed are all along Superior - the argument for them is that pedestrians would cross willy-nilly and get hit by buses. 

Either someone forgot to design crosswalks and signals in the two places where the promenade crosses, or they WERE designed, but not installed because someone thought they could open the square with no buses and was hoping they'd never have to actually allow the buses in.


Offline Davidsmith121

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3189 on: September 19, 2017, 10:03:17 PM »
The crosswalks were designed as continuations of the cobblestone promenades.  There were crosswalk signals installed. Both of these areas were ADA compliant.  The argument was made from Mayor Jackson that they were unsafe due to their color being too similar to the other pavement areas. The safety traffic study done by RTA felt that a centralized crosswalk would be safer and would shorten the pedestrians' Pashto cross Superior since the promenade crosswalks are curved.  That is why Public Square's odd crosswalk path came to be.  None of those points made in the safety concerns makes any sense.    The Homeland Security's request for the added planters along the promenades further confuse me.  Why they are placed halfway into the park makes absolutely no sense. Any vehicle can pull into the park and make an impact into pedestrians before those points. This includes the backside of the Rebol restaurant.  At this point I do not trust anyone involved in the planning and execution of the renovated Public Square to get the design correct. $50 million spent for too many obvious flaws.  In a recent interview Nora Romanoff of LAND-Studio stated pop up bollards were not installed along Superior as part of the renovated design due to underground utilities. I thought they stated the initial need to raise the budget to move all underground utilities to accommodate all the design elements. Odd she would state that since they were part of the protective design elements when the park was to be used as a unified space.  I would like to see the money used for the public art such as "Protest" to be put towards correcting the flaws of the Field Operations designs.

Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3190 on: September 19, 2017, 10:13:37 PM »
Frank Jackson wanted Superior to look the same as the rest of the square.  He intended to keep it closed all along.

Offline Davidsmith121

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3191 on: September 19, 2017, 10:32:54 PM »
His initial intent may have been a unified Square but it is obvious the 50 million dollar design was a northern and southern section with Superior Avenue opened to public transit. He can state that but was never an option without serious monetary consequences to RTA.  His decision not to open the park immediately to public transportation instead opened Pandora's box to ,imho, design elements to justify his threats of terrorism.

I will be interested to hear what the corrective/permanent design elements Field Operation proposes and how much additional costs those elements will entail.

Offline Enginerd

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3192 on: October 07, 2017, 04:31:05 PM »
To my surprise today I noticed the portable concrete barriers were removed from public square (and placed in the middle of superior to the east).

Anyone know if this is a longer term thing? Or was this only for the car even on public square.

Offline TPH2

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3193 on: October 07, 2017, 04:56:52 PM »
To my surprise today I noticed the portable concrete barriers were removed from public square (and placed in the middle of superior to the east).

Anyone know if this is a longer term thing? Or was this only for the car even on public square.

I assume it was only for the car event. They have done this every time that they've closed Public Square for an event (e.g. Ninja Warrior & Common Ground CLE)

Offline Enginerd

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3194 on: October 07, 2017, 05:14:11 PM »
Bummerrrrrr. The square was fully reopened to traffic when I walked by so I wasn't sure.

It's amazing no one has been seriously injured since they aren't up 🙄
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 05:17:09 PM by Enginerd »

Offline Davidsmith121

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3195 on: October 07, 2017, 08:37:43 PM »
Yes they were only removed for the "Cars In Cleveland" event. It shows just how great Public Square looks without them.  Fyi. Rodeo drive in Beverly Hills has added the same concrete barriers to the famed street. Recently they added them to protect patrons to cafe tables and chairs along the street.  They at least painted them forest green. Still ugly.   I wonder what the cost is to move those concrete barriers on Public Square every time they close off Superior for an event. 

As much as I enjoy this type of event wouldn't this be better suited for Malls B and C ?  The vehicles could be placed along the West Mall Drive and East Mall Drive allowing public transportation to remain open on Superior and activating the unused Burnham Malls.  This could also involve more activation of the convention center interior spaces. 

The Group Plan Commission has failed to activate both open spaces.

Offline Davidsmith121

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3196 on: October 07, 2017, 10:53:05 PM »
Speaking of unnecessary added design elements added by Mayor Jackson's safety concerns. Who knew these planters were to bring awareness to  The Prayers from Maria organization.   The paint sure doesn't help their looks.  I have always wondered how the placement of these protect anyone standing on the outside perimeter are not protected from cars that easily can enter the  walkways up to those planters. Not sure why a simple stainless bollard couldn't replace these.


from the official Cleveland Public Square website:

Prayers from Maria flowers on display in Public Square
A local group has added both color and life to Public Square after planting flowers in a series of planters around The Square.

Prayers from Maria started working with the Group Plan Commission in June. The goal was to come up with a plan to raise awareness for their cause and spruce up planters that the city of Cleveland had placed in the Square to reinforce safety.

The signature green paint was donated by Sherwin-Williams, and the sunflowers came from Prayers from Maria. Plant experts from Prayers from Maria also designed the bed layouts.
 
Group Plan Commission CEO Sanaa Julien, who oversees daily programming, maintenance and operation of Public Square, stressed the importance of adjusting to change in a public space and community engagement through the changes.

“The successful transformation of Public Square has drawn interest from many businesses and community organizations. Prayers from Maria wanted to engage and we had an opportunity with the planters, which were not part of the original design and are temporary, potentially to be replaced with a security mechanism that supports the design of the Square. This partnership allows us to message about the importance of childhood cancer research while visually enhancing a safety mechanism. We continue to look at our Public Square as Cleveland’s premiere public space and have to note safety as a primary tenant of our management practices.  Prayers from Maria helped us manage through a short-term challenge.”

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3197 on: November 17, 2017, 05:28:16 PM »
Cool! Now how about replacing those damn Jersey barriers with bollards!

Watch Lake Erie ice form, break from public art in Public Square
http://www.rockthelake.com/buzz/2017/11/watch-lake-erie-ice-form-break-public-art-public-square/
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Offline dave2017

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3198 on: November 17, 2017, 09:35:24 PM »
Cool! Now how about replacing those damn Jersey barriers with bollards!

Watch Lake Erie ice form, break from public art in Public Square
http://www.rockthelake.com/buzz/2017/11/watch-lake-erie-ice-form-break-public-art-public-square/

I wish the jersey barrier replacement was higher priority than more public art in Public Square. LAND Studio is behind both projects. There seems to be an abundance of art already in place. I am interested to see where this video kiosk is planned.  I would prefer if the televisions in Rebol incorporated the live video feeds.   
 

Offline dave2017

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3199 on: December 01, 2017, 01:27:04 AM »
https://www.clevelandpublicsquare.com/stories/november-2017/corner-light-a-collaborative-story-about-clevelan
Corner Light in Public Square
Neighborhoods define the character of a city. The triumph and tragedy experienced by its residents give meaning to the nondescript buildings that populate the skyline.

Day in day out, neighborhood life generates stories, many of which are forgotten, others living on to form a narrative unique only to us. Whether a story emanates from a living room, corner store, playground, or intersection there is always a visual language that holds it together.

The collection of symbols and signs before you uses a vocabulary best understood by those who have contributed to the story of Cleveland.

Corner Light is a monument to what gives us character, the neighborhoods that emanate from our city’s center.

Corner Light was created by Cleveland SGS, a collaborative of artists based in Cleveland, Ohio. For over a decade Cleveland SGS has investigated the hidden meaning behind the commercial narrative of their hometown.

From pawnshops to carryout, hair care to daycare, back alleys to bar stools, SGS chronicles their discoveries in paint, pixels, motion, and sound.





Not a big fan of the amount of different public art that is being created and displayed in Public Square.  Place some of these art installations along the Mall B and C promenades. 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 01:31:00 AM by dave2017 »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3200 on: December 22, 2017, 09:22:29 AM »
On Reporters Roundtable year-end review, Chris Quinn says he expects RTA / Public Square issue to return in 2018.  https://t.co/hiiXQAxksj
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3201 on: December 22, 2017, 09:43:42 AM »
^ I can only hope. And hopefully this time Cleveland Scene's "HOW DARE THEY ADD 90 SECONDS TO OUR COMMUTE?!?!" campaign doesn't succeed.

Offline Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3202 on: December 22, 2017, 09:46:29 AM »
I wished it was a dead issue but it doesn't surprise me. I hope Scene and others take a stand once again.

Offline mack34

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3203 on: December 22, 2017, 10:01:54 AM »
I was on Public Square last night with my family ice skating and taking in the lights.  It was very crowded....and buses occasionally went thru the square....and no one died and everything coexisted very nicely.  The biggest issue for me are the butt ugly concrete barriers...please remove them!!!

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3204 on: December 22, 2017, 10:09:40 AM »
It was a dead issue and then someone died...

I take the health line through to Public Square 2-3x a week, the lap around adds a little over a minute to the commute... leave earlier if it's an issue. We don't need buses running through our FINALLY thriving urban green space. Additionally, crime was an issue on Public Square this October. I know diverting buses around won't necessarily stop this, but a bulk of the violence is perpetrated by people who get dropped off by the bus there.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3205 on: December 22, 2017, 10:43:01 AM »
I was on Public Square last night with my family ice skating and taking in the lights.  It was very crowded....and buses occasionally went thru the square....and no one died and everything coexisted very nicely.  The biggest issue for me are the butt ugly concrete barriers...please remove them!!!

I was also on the square last night after dinner at Urban Farmer. So we walked all the way across the square and everything coexisted nicely. It was a nice urban setting, like a German platz where the transit runs right through it. I'll argue that the square feels less secure most times throughout the year without transit on it because there are fewer eyes on the street. And it was much more than a minute that was added to trips going through the square.  How soon we forget the steel wall of busses that surrounded the square like the Maginot Line, and how unsafe it was for buses to make all the extra turns. A woman died for crying out loud.
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Offline mu2010

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3206 on: December 22, 2017, 11:58:03 AM »
Additionally, crime was an issue on Public Square this October. I know diverting buses around won't necessarily stop this, but a bulk of the violence is perpetrated by people who get dropped off by the bus there.

Public Square is the public transit hub of Northeastern Ohio, so I don't think whether or not buses go through Superior or around the perimeter is very relevant to this.

All in all, it's much harder to cross the streets around the square to get into it (especially along the southern and western edges, where most people are going to enter from, and at the intersection with Ontario St.), than to cross Superior to get from one half to the other. By closing Superior to buses you're only going to make that congestion worse, the benefits of a unified square are going to be neglible at that point. Let the buses run through. Though they do need to get rid of those barriers and make a nice pedestrian crossing in the middle.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3207 on: December 22, 2017, 12:03:40 PM »
^So much of this would be solved if we extended the rapid to an additional 1-2 stops downtown. Sigh

Offline mu2010

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3208 on: December 22, 2017, 12:25:14 PM »
The original plans called for Superior going underneath the square. They didn't do it because of the cost, but whoever made that design knew this would be an issue from the beginning or they wouldn't have put it in the plan. Maybe one day.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Public Square Redesign
« Reply #3209 on: December 22, 2017, 12:37:55 PM »
^I just imagine how much more viable to rapid system would be as a whole if there were a stop at say E 9th and Superior