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Author Topic: Dubai: Developments and News  (Read 2119 times)

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Offline David

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2006, 03:34:58 PM »
How is it a waste of money if it is a world wide tourist attraction? They're working on diversifying their economy and if that's the case then Dubai will be more than just a fad. It's not like that commercial space won't be put to use. So what if it's hot there? The weather doesn't seem to be much of an issue to people that are making money. Look how many people live in Miami, Phoenix, Vegas, California, etc. If they rely on cars, then that's definitely nothing new. How many people in America actually walk to the grocery store, or to their jobs, to school, etc? Not very many.

Offline UncleRando

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2006, 09:22:23 PM »
I love it when jmecklenborg gets all stirred up.  Always seems to make things interesting.

Offline PRidgeFlyer

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2006, 02:53:23 PM »
Alright...I'll stir the pot since it's late friday and I can't do any more work:

What you never hear about Dubai and the rest of the Gulf States is that they're all intensely hot, all the time.  It's almost always over 90F and 110F and even 120F quite frequently.  Almost everything in Dubai is automobile-oriented because it's way too hot to walk.   

The gulf states are very hot by our standards, but your temps are a little off:  Dec - Mar the average high temp of the UAE is 80 or under and the rest of the year Apr - Nov the average highs run 86 -103.  Definately hot, but not extreme compared with South/SE Asia or the Gulf States.     http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/AEXX0004?from=search

Quote
These construction workers are out in that heat all the time, and the Arab world is notorious for its at-best indifferent if not cruel treatment of workers from India, Thailand, and elsewhere. 
No doubt you are right, but this is hardly something that is isolated to the Arab world.  How as Americans can we point fingers at the mistreatment of foreign labor in other countries while we very little to control it here?  Mexicans and South/Central Americans in this country are probably treated marginally better, but they are doing the work that US citizens will not do for significantly less money and in poor conditions.  While it does not justify the mistreatment of foriegn workers anywhere, the extreme poverty and high unemployment rates in these people's home countries are the reason that they migrate to take this work.  I've seen construction sites in India that make me believe Indians working on sites in Dubai can not possibly be any worse off. 

 
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Sure, this place will be interesting to visit, but really it's just a big stunt.
 

Kind of like Vegas or Disneyworld and they seem to do ok.   

 
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 The Arab monarchies didn't do anything to earn the money they've made and their own people didn't even build these places.     
 

The bottom line in all of this is investment and tourism.  Tourists don't care how the arab monarchies earned their petrodollar or who did the built the buildings.  Americans today don't care that the early "Captains of Industry" were robber barons, that the mob built Vegas, or that mistreated chinese & irish immigrants built our railrways.  I'm not saying that your socially conscious point of view is wrong because I share some of your feelings, but to say that an thriving international city isn't legit because you don't agree with their politcs is to ignore the reality.  I understand why you personally don't like Dubai, but that does not mean it is not becoming a player on the international scene. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 09:46:39 PM by PRidgeFlyer »

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2006, 03:36:38 PM »
Sorry I do not have time for a detailed response.  However I do recommend picking up this book:
 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400030412/sr=8-1/qid=1145654230/ref=sr_1_1/102-8679859-2040130?%5Fencoding=UTF8

A new edition appears to have been published in 2002 so I can't vounch for the new version.  I have the original edition published in 1987, this is an excellent and truly unbiased account by a reporter who lived in various parts of the region for over a decade.  The 1987 version of course was written before the end of the Iran-Iraq war, before Iraq invaded Kuwait, and all the nonsense that has happened since.  The UAE is barely mentioned because there wasn't CRAP going on there even in the late 80's, but there are some interesting descriptions of it, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, and all those places before the Middle East was the focus of world attention like it is now.  If you read this book you will be WAY more informed about what's going on now than virtually anyone in government, the news media, college professors, or the military.     




Offline bizbiz

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2006, 08:28:56 PM »
Dubai in UAE is one of the future greatest cities in the world. There's between 200-300 buildings underway right now, and many are taller than the tallest buildings in USA. The city is becoming a future metropolis and is already home to many of the world's wealthiest. Many of the richest Americans either own property there now or soon will. It won't succeed in the same ways big American cities succeed (or fail). Tourism and resorts/timeshare/summerhouse/etc. for the wealthy are the two big factors right now.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 08:30:17 PM by bizbiz »

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2006, 01:44:43 PM »
Well, the United States is by far the wealthiest nation in the world, while Dubai might grow to be a large city and a sort of special tax and law and banking zone like Switzerland or any of the former colonial city-states like Singapore or Hong Kong it still will only be one of those kind of places.  The United States has enormous resources, in the 1960's it built the world's largest network of expressways, built hundreds of thousands of public housing apartments, fought an overseas war, sent men to the moon, stockpiled thousands of nuclear missiles, and had huge standing armies in Germany, Korea, and elsewhere around the world simultaneously.  The size of the US economy has almost QUADRUPLED since then.   Even if Dubai's economy were the size of New York City's, it would still be only a blip compared to the US national economy.  Tall buildings don't mean anything.         
« Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 07:04:48 PM by jmecklenborg »

Offline LincolnKennedy

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2006, 05:18:51 PM »
I can't say that I agree with bizbiz when he says that Dubai is on it's way to being one of the greatest cities in the world.  The total population of the UAE is around 1 million, so it's less than the Cincinnati metro area.

I've never been to Dubai, or the UAE, but I have spent time in the Middle East, including 4 days in Qatar, and some time in Kuwait.  Qatar might not be as flashy as Dubai, but all those Gulf States are organized the same way- the orginial, Arab, pre-wealth population and their decendents are the citizens of an absolute monarchy vastly outnumbered by guest workers, many of them who have now lived there for generations.  Each citizen of Qatar is allowed to "sponsor" so many of these guest workers who, in return for this sponsorship, pay their sponsor a percentage of their income.  In addition, non-citizens are not allowed to own property there.  I have a Indian-American friend, from Chicago, whose cousins live in Dubai.  They own 49% of their business, the rest of which is held by a citizen of Dubai who does nothing but own 51% of the business ("on paper", as he says).  Not the most stable situation for the investor, and not a good formula for attracting foreign investment and capital.

Qatar was literally the ugliest place I had ever seen on earth.  A rocky moonscape, it was also the hottest place I'd ever been.  Of course, I was there in June.  Then again, the coldest moment I'd ever spent was in Kuwait in January, standing in the desert in the wind and drizzling rain for nearly five hours waiting for a bus.  This while wearing a raincoat.  The Gulf is a god-forsaken environment, and while the emirate of Dubai might be successful in making their Vegas-on-the-Gulf, I don't see that place ever having the importance that Baghdad has and will have, with its five million residents.

That being said, it is a good looking building.  Check out Slate.com for their architectural slide shows, if you want to see more great skyscrapers being built around the world.  Judging from what I can tell, I have to say that currently, large government sponsored building projects tend to embrace more interesting designs than their private equivalents do.

Offline LincolnKennedy

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2006, 05:20:53 PM »
Sorry, I miswrote.  The population of Dubai is 1 million.  Total population for the UAE is 4.5 million.

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2006, 12:48:03 AM »
4/23/2006


Offline 3231

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2006, 11:57:21 AM »
I'm moving to Dubai and going into the crane business.

Offline the pope

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2006, 12:18:32 PM »
I'm moving to Dubai and going into the crane business.

the training for crane operators is insane (as far as i know). You basically have to acculmulate a year of apprenticeship to ever go solo.

Offline mrnyc

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Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2006, 05:41:46 PM »
it's from som. eh, not much of a twist.:


World’s tallest tower to feature a 90 degree twist
Infinity Tower, designed by Skidmore Owings and Merrill (SOM), will stand 80 stories high at 330 meters and will be the world’s tallest tower to feature a 90 degree twist. Infinity Tower will house luxury residential apartments, pools, a state of the art gymnasium, a nursery, conference room facilities, tennis courts and a luxury spa. The innovative design affords apartments on all sides staggering views. Open-space design has been implemented to ensure a minimum of pillars and Floor to ceiling windows providing a true sense of space and light. A reinforced concrete column will rotate with the twisting shape to create a helix. In addition each floor will accommodate a 1.2 degree twist to achieve the full unique 90 degree spiral.





Don't worry, it—like all of these gargantuan building oddities—is in Dubai. Sez a tipster: "So SOM hasn't given up on their first freedom tower design – now in Dubai. Actually if the freedom tower had looked liked this NY would have been the winner." So be it, but doesn't the "Infinity" look like it should be called "Flirtatious Over-The-Shoulder Glance," or is it just us?
· Work starts on Dubai landmark [World Architecture News]

Reader Comments (19 extant)


1.
Um...if the freedom tower looked like this, NY would surely have the weakest skyline restoration possible.

By realist at June 2, 2006 01:59 PM2.
I think its an amazing design.

No small irony that after 9/11 the world's tallest building and the most innovative skyscapers are now being built not in New York, but in the Arab World. Meanwhile, New York cannot even afford to start construction of its weak hole in the ground memorial.

America may no longer build great things, but at least we still can blow them up.

By GrandPa at June 2, 2006 02:10 PM3.
What a piece of architectural shite.
Why do we have to have huge buildings, GrandPa? Can't we just have a nice city with parks and sidewalks and sunlight?

By nolte at June 2, 2006 02:14 PM4.
At least the boats are nice...

By ay at June 2, 2006 02:27 PM5.
Looks similar to that Calatrava "turning torso" apt building in Norway....or somewhere in Scandanavia.....but not as good. This one is just blah.

By kelly at June 2, 2006 02:37 PM6.
Uh, Santiago Calatrava just said "been there, done that" in Catalan.
http://www.turningtorso.com/


By ttorrison at June 2, 2006 02:39 PM7.
I like it. But it is interesting how this variable spacing of window spandrels has become such a huge trend. Everybody's doin it...

By KB at June 2, 2006 02:43 PM8.
Bullshit, Nolte. New York was built on large monumental buildings. Why don't you move back to Olympia, Washington if you want a syline-free city?

By Ray at June 2, 2006 02:52 PM9.
Bullshit, Nolte. New York was built on large monumental buildings. Why don't you move back to Olympia, Washington if you want a skyline-free city?

By Ray at June 2, 2006 02:52 PM10.
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=182168

Dubai is an architecture mega-hit right now... but this building @ 2300ft def takes the cake.

In America -- Chicago is our nations top city for progressive building design. But Dubai -- wow -- phenominal.

By AngryAtManhattanApts at June 2, 2006 03:11 PM11.
what is progressive about dubai's architecture? it is just like shanghai only bigger. it is a desert, nothing they are designing or building is even remotely sustainable, and it denies any connection to the city it occupies (let alone the climate of that city). sounds more like 1950s and 1960s corbusier than progress. and what happens when the oil money disappears? hmm.

By mortonstreeter at June 2, 2006 03:19 PM12.
High rises are generally more environmentally sustainable than sprawling developments. I am not sure how buildings have a connection to climate other than providing air conditioning and being built so as to be energy efficient. I will take these high rises over what Americans build in their desert environments, visit Phoenix some time.

As for oil dependency, while I do not hold Dubai up as a model society, they are using their oil revenues to actually diversify their economy, so while oil revenues are the source for construction financing, they are building to diversify their economy. They certainly are not doing any worse than the United States is in planning to deal with the post-oil economy.

By GrandPa at June 2, 2006 03:32 PM13.
thanks grandpa, ive been to phoenix and im not suggesting that the us is doing better, but our climate as a whole is not nearly as severe. if you had all that money wouldnt you design buildings that saved you money in the long run? and how exactly is dubai diversifying its economy? tourism, oil, and ... ?

By mortonstreeter at June 2, 2006 04:14 PM14.
blah blah high rise blah blah dubai architecture blah blah blah blah. someone decided to twist an ugly box skyscraper into an even uglier twisted box skyscraper. shut up.

By meat curtain at June 2, 2006 04:14 PM15.
yes, nolte...do us all a favor and move to a "small" and "scaled" jerkwater of your choosing. NY is for those who aspire to more than you.

By realist at June 2, 2006 04:28 PM16.
I'm more interested in the fact that, if you look really cloesly, the base of the building looks exactly like the luxury condos that SOM designed for lower Manhattan...you know, the ones that kinda knock off the luxury condos designed by SHoP....seriously...it's like they took that project, stretched one part of it, and declared it new and brilliant. But, that does seem to be the SOM m.o.

By wigetz at June 2, 2006 04:50 PM17.
Tourism and banking. Kind of like, I don't know, New York.

Also, a Dubai company was going to run New York ports if you recall, a job Americans can no longer manage.


By GrandPa at June 2, 2006 05:28 PM18.
looks dated already.

By anon at June 2, 2006 08:06 PM19.
Its like if Calatravas tower and Moneos Ayuntamiento de Murcia got together and had a baby. Only the baby is retarted.

When I think of SOM i think of xerox; they make good copies.

Here is the Moneo: http://megias.com/arquitectura/moneo/ayuntamiento/index.html

By nicolai at June 2, 2006 08:18 PM

link:
http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/06/02/freaky_architectural_photo_of_the_day.php

Offline The_Cincinnati_Kid

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2006, 09:21:20 PM »
Check out this photo-flash thread of Dubai, pretty cool:

http://flickr.com/photos/broknman/sets/72157594154414242/show/

Offline OTRFAN

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2006, 08:17:51 PM »
^ holy cripe - and we get jacked when one OTR block is reclaimed.

Offline David

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2006, 09:03:37 PM »
Dubai NEVER STOPS!!! That's amazing...I wish I could live in something like that. Cincinnati can't even develop The Banks without it taking 20 years or even fix up Main street...meanwhile Dubai has over 200 skyscrapers under construction
« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 09:04:31 PM by David »

Offline UncleRando

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2006, 09:13:58 PM »
I'm not real sure how I feel about this....I'm a little light headed right now.  It seems that they might be going a bit overboard on some of these things, but why blame them take it while the market's hot.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2006, 08:21:20 AM »
Hasn't something like this been done in Sweden?


Offline 3231

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2006, 08:25:14 AM »
Hasn't something like this been done in Sweden?

Yeah, it looks just like the tower that Calatrava did in Sweden.

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2006, 10:14:47 AM »
good call you guys, it sure does look familiar:

calatrava's 'turning torso' in malmo, sweden (built 1999)






Offline David

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2006, 10:31:42 AM »
What the hell? Every room looks slanted in that second building unless it's an optical illusion?

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2006, 09:12:14 AM »
^ i think, well i hope, that is an optical illusion.

psst --  wanna see the man? here's a pic somebody took of santiago calatrava his bad self checking out the new apple store in midtown manhattan this past weekend. he's the bottom guy:



starchitect stalkers? heh!


Offline David

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Re: Dubai: Infinity Tower
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2006, 09:16:18 AM »
lol. Imagine the feeling of seeing a skyscraper like that and knowing you designed it. It has to be a great feeling. I hope that apple store has a better layout than the one here because it's almost impossible to find what you need in that place :-/

Offline musky

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2006, 12:19:33 PM »
From the UK Daily Mail:

Quote
The biggest building site on earth
by MICHAEL HANLON 22:22pm 8th August 2006

Those looking for tranquil, unspoilt beaches, rustic charm and authentic maritime culture will probably choose to look elsewhere. But for the world's permatanned classes with bling to display and money to burn this extraordinary construction project in the Persian Gulf is an irresistible draw.


images:
 
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/08/Dubai3_600x391.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/08/Dubai2_600x393.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/08/Dubai4_600x335.jpg
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 02:43:15 PM by Mildtraumatic »

Offline kingfish out of water

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2006, 12:23:54 PM »
Best use of slave labor since the pyramids.

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2006, 06:26:18 PM »
jaw drops.  :-o

rubs eyes.

totally berzerker.

Online KJP

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2006, 06:50:19 PM »
Looks too "orderly" for me. I prefer a little messiness, grit and diversity of styles that come over many decades and even centuries of ebb and flow. When cities suddenly appear like this, too much uniformity results, at least for me. Give me a call in about 100 years and I'll tell you if I like Dubai.
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline Mov2Ohio

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2006, 08:06:44 PM »
^Not to cause an argument or anything, but don't all cities start out like that?

Offline kingfish out of water

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2006, 08:37:41 AM »
I don't know. Folks on the outer barrier and central stalk might enjoy good traffic circulation, but I'd think anybody living at the tip of one of the fronds has got a major commute on their hands.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 08:38:25 AM by kingfish out of water »

Offline Jimmy Skinner

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2006, 08:59:58 AM »
Looks too "orderly" for me. I prefer a little messiness, grit and diversity of styles that come over many decades and even centuries of ebb and flow. When cities suddenly appear like this, too much uniformity results, at least for me. Give me a call in about 100 years and I'll tell you if I like Dubai.
Agreed.
I see that island, and I think of a famous essay by Christopher Alexander "A city is not a tree".  Meaning, that a beautiful city, full of life and vitality cannot be organized in such a strict and superficial manner.  Beautiful cities are more than aerial diagrams with "work nodes" and "home nodes".  The mixed-up and interrelated uses are what make city life so rewarding.

Offline SSSCincy

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Re: Boomtown Dubai
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2006, 07:07:39 PM »
This is unreal. The ultimate in glutony.