Author Topic: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion  (Read 79032 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline YABO713

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4531
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5430 on: August 16, 2018, 11:25:15 AM »
Honestly, my grandpa was right. A police cruiser should've just jutted out at an intersection when a green light came along and "woops, four dirt bikers ran into the side of my cruiser!"

I agree we need more cops murdering people for non-capital offenses.

Pulling into an intersection on a green light is murder. okurrrrr.

To flip it around, last year when I was stuck on the Main Ave bridge behind them, one of them was doing a wheelie and flipped his bike over on top of himself.  If I had run the kid over accidentally, guess who would be getting sued by his parents--even though he should have never been on a freeway in front of me.

That's my biggest problem with these kids--they are putting themselves in positions of serious liability, but accept no responsibility.  You want to do it?  Get the bikes licensed.  Wear a helmet.  Buy insurance.  They are doing none of this.

Bingo, I'm not suggesting we go around swinging our driver doors at them while they're in opposing traffic, but their very existence in that state of reckless behavior puts everyone at risk. Unfortunately, the only way it stops is substantial prosecution or serious injury. I'd rather see a weighty prosecution, obviously, as due process is a better answer than tragedy.

Offline bumsquare

  • One World Trade Center 1,776'
  • ****
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5431 on: August 16, 2018, 11:45:06 AM »
Honestly, my grandpa was right. A police cruiser should've just jutted out at an intersection when a green light came along and "woops, four dirt bikers ran into the side of my cruiser!"

I agree we need more cops murdering people for non-capital offenses.

Pulling into an intersection on a green light is murder. okurrrrr.

Idk, sounded like you were advocating intentionally striking people with a police vehicle. Although your later comment suggests the doors wouldnít be open so all good I guess.

Offline YABO713

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4531
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5432 on: August 16, 2018, 11:52:47 AM »
Honestly, my grandpa was right. A police cruiser should've just jutted out at an intersection when a green light came along and "woops, four dirt bikers ran into the side of my cruiser!"

I agree we need more cops murdering people for non-capital offenses.

Pulling into an intersection on a green light is murder. okurrrrr.

Idk, sounded like you were advocating intentionally striking people with a police vehicle. Although your later comment suggests the doors wouldnít be open so all good I guess.

My comment was intentionally impeding their way when they ran a red, which they were doing. I don't want these guys to be met with capital punishment for essentially an enhanced traffic offense.

Offline originaljbw

  • Key Tower 947'
  • ****
  • Posts: 811
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5433 on: August 16, 2018, 12:06:14 PM »
And how long until it's a Mom driving with a car full of little kids that suffers the same fate as the hypothetical police cruiser?

Offline KJP

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 51147
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5434 on: August 16, 2018, 12:28:25 PM »
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder if any of these guys rely on these bikes to get to work. That could throw a small wrench into a flat out ban in the city limits.

What's the price (new/used) difference between a street-legal motorcycle vs. a dirt bike that's not street legal.

I used to own an off-road motorcycle when I was a teenager living in Geauga County. Sometimes I would ride on the roads and got caught twice by police. The first resulted in a warning. The second resulted in a ticket. As the owner, my dad was ticketed and my father chained up my motorcycle for a month. He said if I got caught again, he would sell my motorcycle.

There are some obvious differences between my experience and these urban bike riders. First, I lived in Geauga County where we had lots of places to ride dirt bikes legally, including the track I built on the 2.5 acres of wooded property I lived on. Second, my parents policed me at least as much as the actual police did. Not a lot of inner city homes are two-parent households with a parent working only one job to keep tabs on their kids.

As I said before, dirt bikes don't belong in the city. But a city probably can't outright ban them. But they can regulate their use which means that a dirt bike can't be kept anywhere in the city except at a licensed dirt bike track or perhaps at a private property when the dirt bike owner also owns a trailer or a pickup truck to legally transport the bike to a licensed track or to another location outside of the city. Absent these conditions, the police should be able to legally seize a dirt bike.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline Enginerd

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 346
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5435 on: August 16, 2018, 03:33:08 PM »
This is loosely related to the dirt bikes...but the consent decree Monitoring Team recently released itís fifth semi-annual status report on the ongoing changes at the police department.

In focus groups with officers, they described the pursuit policy as...

ďimpeding their ability to engage in some proactive police work. Specifically, officers expressed frustration that the suspects who they try to pull over during a traffic stop may take off Ė and, without chase, may not ever receive a summons. Officers say that the ďno pursuit policyĒ makes their jobs more difficult, limits their ability to respond to public safety issues, and limits their ability to be a deterrent to criminal activity.Ē

Overall the report is a very interteresting (but long) read and to me, really highlights just how unprofessional and unorganized the police department used to be. Itís mind boggling really.


EDIT: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4757934/Semiannual-Report-August-2018.pdf

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9285
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5436 on: August 19, 2018, 02:53:06 PM »
Some of them were riding on sidewalks and treelawns, the very sidewalks my wife, son and I walk or ride a bike to restaurants and stores.

I hear ya, it's gotta be like my attitude towards the guys that tried to bomb the 82 bridge, which I cross frequently with Ardyn.

This needs to stop now.   It's flat out willful defiance towards the rule of law in a way that endangers people who have nothing to do with any of the alleged issues behind said defiance.

If Jackson doesn't get that, he has no business being mayor.

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9285
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5437 on: August 19, 2018, 02:56:37 PM »
Honestly, my grandpa was right. A police cruiser should've just jutted out at an intersection when a green light came along and "woops, four dirt bikers ran into the side of my cruiser!"

I agree we need more cops murdering people for non-capital offenses.

Pulling into an intersection on a green light is murder. okurrrrr.

Idk, sounded like you were advocating intentionally striking people with a police vehicle. Although your later comment suggests the doors wouldnít be open so all good I guess.

My comment was intentionally impeding their way when they ran a red, which they were doing. I don't want these guys to be met with capital punishment for essentially an enhanced traffic offense.

I'd equate it to driving 130mph down the freeway in traffic.   It's not a capital offense, but if the laws of physics catch up with someone, it's on them.  Choosing actions means choosing their consequences.

Offline originaljbw

  • Key Tower 947'
  • ****
  • Posts: 811
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5438 on: August 20, 2018, 11:55:51 PM »
Could some lawyer get together every propery owner that was turfed and file a class action lawsuit against the city for allowing this to go on? I could see anyone who wants to be mayor next election cycle getting this together.

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9285
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5439 on: August 21, 2018, 08:30:35 AM »
Could some lawyer get together every propery owner that was turfed and file a class action lawsuit against the city for allowing this to go on? I could see anyone who wants to be mayor next election cycle getting this together.

I suspect the city would have to agree to be sued.  Good luck with that.  There's also the potential for legal harassment.   The Fun Burglar (Tremonster)  has been quiet since Cimperman had to resign, perhaps he could be someone else's stalking horse.

Zack's been all over this and the crime issues, though he stops short of blaming gang activity.

Offline Cavalier Attitude

  • Dirt Lot 0'
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5440 on: August 21, 2018, 02:58:57 PM »
Who's Zach?

Offline Enginerd

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 346
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5441 on: August 21, 2018, 03:10:34 PM »

Offline E Rocc

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 9285
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5442 on: August 21, 2018, 04:02:13 PM »
Apparently he spells it both ways. 

https://twitter.com/zachreed12?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Some of you:  don't say it.    :o

Offline Enginerd

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 346
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5443 on: August 26, 2018, 01:06:35 PM »
A great article in the New Yorker about the failures of implementing Broken Windows policing and what the policies are missing. The study the researchers did focused on the crime rates around rehabilitated properties.

It showed a 39% reduction in crime when a building is remediate and 5% when a lot is.

Itís a great read. The only thing I couldnít figure out but would like to know, is the difference in rehabbing and abandoned home versus demolishing it like weíre doing here.

 https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-other-side-of-broken-windows?utm_source=citylab-daily&silverid=MzEwMTkwMTMyNDIwS0

Offline StapHanger

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 8718
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5444 on: August 26, 2018, 01:10:45 PM »
^Good find. Would certainly help explain why cities like Cleveland and Baltimore have much, much higher crime rates than similarly poor places, like the Bronx these days.

Offline KJP

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 51147
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5445 on: September 01, 2018, 10:09:18 AM »
Awfully close to downtown

I TEAM: multiple people shot, one dead on Clevelandís east side
https://fox8.com/2018/09/01/i-team-multiple-people-shot-on-clevelands-east-side/
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline Mendo

  • One World Trade Center 1,776'
  • ****
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5446 on: September 05, 2018, 10:45:06 PM »
Some of these stories about city corruption seem to keep getting buried. I wonder how many buildings were needlessly torn down because he was bribed by contractors.

https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2018/08/ex-cleveland_demolition_bureau.html

Quote
Ex-Cleveland demolition bureau chief charged with soliciting, taking bribes from contractors
Updated Aug 27; Posted Aug 24

By Eric Heisig, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The former chief of the city of Cleveland's demolition bureau was charged Friday with soliciting and taking thousands of dollars in bribes from contractors in exchange for a leg up in obtaining city jobs, federal prosecutors say.

Rufus Taylor, 60, is charged with bribery in a federally funded program, and extortion. The charges against him were filed via a criminal information, which usually means a plea agreement is forthcoming.

The U.S. Attorney's Office says Taylor, as head of the bureau, gave preferential treatment to two unnamed contractors in exchange for information about upcoming projects for demolition and abatement. He and the contractors agreed to bribes in exchange for the information, and Taylor received cash over several years, authorities say.

Taylor, a Cleveland resident, retired in January after working at the city for 30 years. His charges follow an investigation by the FBI and other agencies.
...
Taylor's job as demolition chief meant he was in charge of assigning the "board-up" of vacant and abandoned properties in Cleveland to contractors, as well as assigning emergency demolition jobs. He was also responsible for inspecting properties, which had to happen before a contractor was paid, according to prosecutors.


https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2018/09/former_cleveland_demolition_bu.html

Quote
Former Cleveland demolition bureau chief pleads guilty to extorting, accepting bribes from contractors
Updated Sep 4, 7:15 PM; Posted Sep 4, 4:55 PM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The city of Cleveland's former demolition bureau chief admitted Tuesday to soliciting and accepting thousands of dollars in bribes from contractors in exchange for a leg up in obtaining city jobs.

Rufus Taylor pleaded guilty to extortion and bribery in a federally funded program.

The 60-year-old, who retired from the city in January after working there for 30 years, gave preferential treatment to two contractors in exchange for information about upcoming projects for demolition and abatement. He and the contractors agreed to take bribes in exchange for the information, and Taylor received cash over several years, authorities say.

Taylor was charged Aug. 24.

The federal government has not identified the contractors. Cleveland.com has asked the city of Cleveland for records related to the case, but the city has not provided them.

Taylor listened as federal Magistrate Judge Thomas Parker read a portion of his plea agreement that detailed his conduct. When Parker asked him if the government could prove all the facts read aloud, Taylor replied, "it's true."

His attorney Michael Peterson said after the hearing that Taylor's plea agreement includes a calculation that would likely lead him and the U.S. Attorney's Office to recommend a sentence of between 37 and 46 months in federal prison. Assistant U.S. Attorney Chelsea Rice said at the hearing that the government would also recommend a fine of $3,925, which is already in the FBI's possession.

Offline 327

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7302
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5447 on: September 06, 2018, 08:25:01 AM »
I don't think this guy was deciding how many buildings to demo, he just got his beak wet in the process.  City and county leadership are the ones who insist on destroying everything as quickly as possible.  Now is as good a time as any to reconsider that mission.

Offline KJP

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 51147
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5448 on: September 16, 2018, 08:27:24 AM »
Uh oh....

CLE ~ Structure Fire - Mather Ship, Erieside - electrical fire in engine room, smoke coming from ship -BW
https://twitter.com/NEO_Scan/status/1040963354238611456?s=19
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline surfohio

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 7717
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5449 on: September 17, 2018, 04:04:38 PM »
If you watch any true crime documentary there's inevitably a point in the story where the police just screw up royally.

Families of six Anthony Sowell victims reach $1 million settlement with Cleveland over detective's botched investigation

By Cory Shaffer, cleveland.com CShaffer@Cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio - The City of Cleveland has agreed to pay $1 million to the families of six women who fell victim to condemned serial-killer Anthony Sowell after a botched police investigation into a 2008 rape accusation allowed Sowell to walk out of jail with no charges.

The families of Nancy Cobbs, Telacia Fortson, Amelda Hunter, Le'Shanda Long, Diane Turner, and Janice Webb will divvy up the $1 million equally as part of an agreement to settle a lawsuit that was filed in 2010, dismissed by a county judge in 2014 and revived by an appeals court late last year.

The City of Cleveland, which will not admit any wrongdoing as part of the settlement, also agreed to reimburse the families' lawyers for the cost of bringing the eight-year lawsuit.

https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2018/09/families_of_six_anthony_sowell.html

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 6100
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5450 on: September 17, 2018, 11:56:35 PM »
Random beatings especially with no robbery is not good:

Police investigating pair of attacks that seriously injured victims after night out in downtown Cleveland

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland police are investigating a pair of apparently random attacks downtown that left the victims with serious injuries after a night out.

The attacks each occurred near West 9th Street and Johnson Court in the city's Warehouse District, a popular nightlife area.

https://fox8.com/2018/09/17/police-investigating-pair-of-attacks-that-seriously-injured-victims-after-night-out-in-downtown-cleveland/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


Offline YABO713

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4531
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5451 on: September 18, 2018, 10:15:30 AM »
Random beatings especially with no robbery is not good:

Police investigating pair of attacks that seriously injured victims after night out in downtown Cleveland

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland police are investigating a pair of apparently random attacks downtown that left the victims with serious injuries after a night out.

The attacks each occurred near West 9th Street and Johnson Court in the city's Warehouse District, a popular nightlife area.

https://fox8.com/2018/09/17/police-investigating-pair-of-attacks-that-seriously-injured-victims-after-night-out-in-downtown-cleveland/amp/?__twitter_impression=true



We broke up a mugging there probably two summers ago. 5 on 2.

Offline KJP

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 51147
  • Rebuilding the cities that built America.
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5452 on: September 18, 2018, 12:16:51 PM »
A friend of mine was attacked from behind on Johnson Court about 15 years ago. But he was an investigative reporter looking into the firechasing business in Cleveland -- a mob-connected operation. He suspected the blindside attack was because of his recent articles because nothing was stolen. Now that I seeing this latest news, perhaps he was wrong about the reason. Either way, Johnson Court has been a problem for a long time. Not good for the Worthington Yards apartments.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline Enginerd

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 346
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5453 on: September 19, 2018, 11:38:46 AM »
The number of random attacks/robberies in downtown and the near west side is worrying. The two downtown attacks listed above and two violent robberies in Ohio City recently as well.

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/09/minnesota_couple_attacked_robb.html

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/09/group_attacks_man_from_behind.html

Offline YABO713

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4531
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5454 on: September 19, 2018, 11:43:40 AM »
The number of random attacks/robberies in downtown and the near west side is worrying. The two downtown attacks listed above and two violent robberies in Ohio City recently as well.

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/09/minnesota_couple_attacked_robb.html

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/09/group_attacks_man_from_behind.html

Wow, I live at 28th and Franklin. This is terrible.

Offline Enginerd

  • Kettering Tower 408'
  • **
  • Posts: 346
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5455 on: September 19, 2018, 11:56:22 AM »
The number of random attacks/robberies in downtown and the near west side is worrying. The two downtown attacks listed above and two violent robberies in Ohio City recently as well.

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/09/minnesota_couple_attacked_robb.html

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/09/group_attacks_man_from_behind.html

Wow, I live at 28th and Franklin. This is terrible.

And I live at 38th and Clinton. I donít want to feel like I canít walk around my own neighborhood.

Offline Icarus86

  • Dirt Lot 0'
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5456 on: September 19, 2018, 11:57:30 AM »
This is red meat to racists - this combined with Johnson Ct's incidents.

Offline Clefan98

  • Burj Khalifa 2,722'
  • *****
  • Posts: 1953
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5457 on: September 19, 2018, 11:57:31 AM »
^^ The culprits in the recent crime spree around Ohio City were apprehended on Monday. 

Offline YABO713

  • Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • *****
  • Posts: 4531
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5458 on: September 19, 2018, 11:58:09 AM »
The number of random attacks/robberies in downtown and the near west side is worrying. The two downtown attacks listed above and two violent robberies in Ohio City recently as well.

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/09/minnesota_couple_attacked_robb.html

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/09/group_attacks_man_from_behind.html

Wow, I live at 28th and Franklin. This is terrible.

And I live at 38th and Clinton. I donít want to feel like I canít walk around my own neighborhood.

I'll say this, I've never even felt so much as uncomfortable in my neighborhood

Offline Clefan98

  • Burj Khalifa 2,722'
  • *****
  • Posts: 1953
Re: Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion
« Reply #5459 on: September 19, 2018, 12:04:16 PM »
Good read....While the recent crimes are disheartening, the odds of being a victim to a violent crime are extremely low.

http://www.cleveland19.com/2018/09/18/is-crime-really-that-bad-ohio-city-tremont-fact-vs-fiction/