Author Topic: Gentrification News & Discussion  (Read 18938 times)

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Offline TBideon

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #420 on: March 17, 2018, 12:03:28 PM »
Inventory is very tight. Only 13 SFH between $150-300 in Lakewood, for example.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 12:07:15 PM by TBideon »

Offline KJP

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #421 on: March 17, 2018, 12:59:26 PM »
It used to be (until last couple of years), that the only part of Lakewood where a house sold for $300,000+ was north of Clifton, close to the lake. Now it's the exception to find a Lakewood house listing for less than $300,000 anywhere in the city. A friend of mine is a realtor and another is house shopping. They've told me that when someone wants a house, they may have to offer MORE than the listed price in order to win it. It's crazy. And this is true for just about every listing north of Lorain Avenue in Cleveland, Fairview Park, and if course Lakewood and Rocky River.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline KJP

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #422 on: March 17, 2018, 01:02:51 PM »
Inventory is very tight. Only 13 SFH between $150-300 in Lakewood, for example.

By the way, a friend of mine lives in a double off Hilliard at the west end of Lakewood. Her double and others like it on her street were sold in the upper 100s, gutted, turned into single-family for-sale homes, and resold for $300K to $400K.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline dastler

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #423 on: March 19, 2018, 03:27:46 PM »
Have you looked at housing prices and short time spans that homes are on the market in the most dense, diverse, multicultural urban centers of this country?  Have you looked at housing prices and sale speeds in increasing numbers of Cleveland neighborhoods as well as densely developed areas of Lakewood and  Cleveland Heights? It's actually quite stunning. I've got lots of good material to write a very interesting blog about Greater Cleveland's urban housing market.

Any chance you could share the data Ken? I'm starting to look at purchasing a home myself and would like to get some more insight on the market. I'd love to fix up a house while I'm in it, purchase and renovate another home after the first is done, then move and rent out the first while I renovate a third, and repeat. I'm looking in Clark-Fulton and Stockyards mostly, but if the right home came up in Detroit-Shoreway or Ohio City I'd consider purchasing there as well. I'm mostly worried about dumping $30-50k into a home in some of these areas and then never getting any of that money back if I ever do sell. I think they'd cash flow pretty well in the $700-$1000/month range though, and with the Metrohealth campus upgrade along with investment in Clark-Fulton there might actually be some value appreciation. I think that neighborhood is ripe for the next wave of gentrification because of its proximity to Ohio City and Tremont. What do you think?

Offline Clefan98

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #424 on: March 19, 2018, 03:39:09 PM »
^ Cudell

Offline KJP

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #425 on: March 19, 2018, 05:24:13 PM »
Zillow is a very good resource. It's not perfect, but one thing I like about it is that it is map-based and you can use filters to refine what you're looking for. For example, if you want to do some bargain-hunting in or next to hot neighborhoods, set the filter to look only for foreclosures or homes meeting physical basics/amenities. What is also cool is that, if you zoom in close enough, it shows the approximate values for all residential properties and even some commercial ones.

Also, go on to the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's website to find homes up for auction. These are often best because they come out Sheriff auctions clean of liens and violations. One of the downsides of Zillow is that there are some for-sale-by-owner scammers on there who list properties they may not own or if they do, the properties are loaded down with back taxes, liens and violations and Zillow doesn't always list what they are or if they do, the fines aren't detailed.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline dastler

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #426 on: March 19, 2018, 06:00:31 PM »
Cool, thanks for the advice guys!

Offline taestell

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #427 on: April 10, 2018, 11:24:42 PM »
^ It fascinates me how there are homeless advocates (Josh Spring, cough cough) who vigorously campaign and fight gentrification and want to keep certain neighbohoods for the poor yet at the same time complaining that the neighborhood is poor and needs investment. You cant have it both ways.

At today's CPS school board meeting, Josh Spring apparently claimed that "you don't see kids playing in Washington Park anymore" which has gotta be one of the more blatantly false things that you can say about Washington Park. It's is packed with people of all ages and all races, all the time. Maybe not so far this year due to the unusually cold spring we're having. But to claim that the park has been gentrified and is no longer used by neighborhood kids is just absurd.

Offline Brutus_buckeye

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #428 on: April 11, 2018, 12:02:19 AM »
^ Washington Park has been turned into an urban melting pot and something that should be considered the envy of many neighborhoods nationwide. Josh Spring may have a platform, but his voice should carry zero credibility anymore. He is nothing more than a blowhard.

Offline Matthew67

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #429 on: April 11, 2018, 12:06:58 AM »
^ It fascinates me how there are homeless advocates (Josh Spring, cough cough) who vigorously campaign and fight gentrification and want to keep certain neighbohoods for the poor yet at the same time complaining that the neighborhood is poor and needs investment. You cant have it both ways.

At today's CPS school board meeting, Josh Spring apparently claimed that "you don't see kids playing in Washington Park anymore" which has gotta be one of the more blatantly false things that you can say about Washington Park. It's is packed with people of all ages and all races, all the time. Maybe not so far this year due to the unusually cold spring we're having. But to claim that the park has been gentrified and is no longer used by neighborhood kids is just absurd.

There's a perverse kind of self-hatred in Spring's 'career' against OTR's development. He has a romantic vision of himself as a kind of Robin Hood protecting the poor against the evil Lord of the Manor. I shows that he thinks he's better than the residents of OTR and that he is not somehow really one of them. What would he do without them?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 12:27:14 PM by Matthew67 »

Offline Brutus_buckeye

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #430 on: April 11, 2018, 12:13:42 AM »
^ He is a disciple of Buddy Gray a famous homeless advocate in Cincinnati who ran the drop in center and was a force in the city in the 70s and 80s and part of the 90s until he was gunned down. Buddy set OTR redevelopment efforts back 20 years because of his insistence to keep OTR as a haven for the poor and sought to prevent any development or opportunities to revitalize the neighborhood.  He wielded considerable more power than Spring does at that time. Plus, the movers and shakers of the town did not really focus on the benefits of developing OTR at that time and the benefits of a healthy downtown.

Spring came around trying to emulate him but the times had changed. Now instead of a voice of the homeless who can be part of the solution, he really has been reduced to a voice in the room with no credibility.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #431 on: April 11, 2018, 11:03:08 AM »
I have a distinct memory of being bused down to Music Hall for a "lollypop concert" field trip in the 80s.  The buses from various schools parked in a long line on Elm St. along Washington Park.  We were told before we got off the buses that we weren't allowed to step into the park. 

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #432 on: May 11, 2018, 03:29:03 PM »
the happiest person in this story is undoubtedly the landlord. I think I only once met someone who lived in a cold-water apartment who paid less than $50/month, and that was almost 30 years ago. This building is located in the heart of Green. Vill. on a busy stretch of 6th Ave (@12th St.) which is one of the most expensive parts of NY! And I thought my apt. was a little spare. To say this woman was a little eccentric is to say the least--but hey, she must have been a Hillary supporter--see sticker on refrigerator .lol

A Manhattan miracle! Actress paid less than $30 A MONTH for her Greenwich Village apartment for 63 YEARS due to rent control clause (but shunned any renovations living without a bath, hot water or heat)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5715533/Manhattan-miracle-Woman-paid-28-43-rent-apartment.html#ixzz5FDRsaoUF

Offline YABO713

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #433 on: May 11, 2018, 03:33:22 PM »
That's incredible!!! @eastvillagedon . I have a buddy living in Midtown paying $4200 for a 680 sq ft 1BR

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #434 on: May 11, 2018, 03:37:08 PM »
^that's outrageous. I assume he has heat.

Offline jws

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #435 on: June 07, 2018, 04:17:23 PM »
^ Cudell

Cleveland Bricks is really pushing the Cudell market right now. They have two listings for 1.2k/month.

Additionally, there is a townhouse next to West Tech with new owners that was just renovated and listed for 1.2k, while one of the infill houses next to West Tech is listed at 220k and an older century house a block over is at 100k.

The price shift has been very sudden.

Offline taestell

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #436 on: August 07, 2018, 03:40:15 PM »
The Twitter account that represents the Cincinnati Public Schools teachers' union just tweeted and accused 3CDC of "gentrification" and "ethnic cleansing."

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #437 on: August 07, 2018, 04:03:06 PM »
The Twitter account that represents the Cincinnati Public Schools teachers' union just tweeted and accused 3CDC of "gentrification" and "ethnic cleansing."

Apparently there is a rumor that 3CDC wants to tear down the new SCPA.  Not sure where that started, but I definitely suggested years ago that the SCPA parking lot should be redeveloped as apartments that pay into CPS. 

Offline taestell

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #438 on: August 09, 2018, 04:38:35 PM »
^ That wasn't so much a "rumor" but the teachers union making a wild speculation, "first 3CDC takes away our parking, next thing you know, they're buying the SCPA and turning it into condos!"

They are continuing to tweet anti-3CDC stuff like this:

Q. Is #3CDC trying to push #SCPA and CPS kids and teachers out of the "new" #OTR? #notposhenough #gentrification.

Offline dastler

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #439 on: August 10, 2018, 03:28:53 PM »
^ Cudell

Cleveland Bricks is really pushing the Cudell market right now. They have two listings for 1.2k/month.

Additionally, there is a townhouse next to West Tech with new owners that was just renovated and listed for 1.2k, while one of the infill houses next to West Tech is listed at 220k and an older century house a block over is at 100k.

The price shift has been very sudden.

Ironically I ended up renting less than a block from there from $985. Love the place even if the neighborhood is very much still "up and coming".

Offline taestell

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #440 on: August 27, 2018, 03:16:15 PM »
I posted this back in February:

I just listened to an interview with Carrie Brownstein, one of the co-stars of Portlandia, in which she talked about the final season of that show. One interesting topic that came up was how much American cities have changed since the show first came on the air in 2011. When Portlandia started, the show was making fun of over-the-top hipster stuff that you'd only find in places like Portland (or maybe SF or Brooklyn), but now, most of those things are mainstream. You no longer have to go to Portland to find a gourmet donut shop or a "curated" flea market or a third wave coffee shop with an interior made of reclaimed wood or a dozen microbreweries specializing in obscure styles of beer. Literally every mid-sized American city now has all of those things.

Aaron Renn published a great article on this topic today:

Quote
One of the most important writing decisions I ever made was to make the original Urbanophile a Midwestern regional blog, not just a single city blog. I did that because people in these Midwest cities did not even know what was going on in the next city just 100 miles down the road. They were celebrating all these downtown condos being built. But the same condos were being built everywhere. I wanted to try to help bring awareness to this, to help give Midwest cities a sense of the regional market.

But even today people in most cities don’t really seem to get it that every city now has this stuff. Their city has dramatically improved relative to its own recent past, but it’s unclear how much it’s improved versus peers if at all.

He quotes from this New York magazine article:

Quote
In every single city mid-size and above you’ll also find:

The barbecue place with lacquered-wooden tables that repel sauce, creating an atmosphere that is content to evoke the feeling of a roadside joint that roasts its hogs whole in a real pit for 12 hours, without actually providing that feeling in full.

The Asian-fusion restaurant that is either owned by one of the Vietnamese families who came to America after the Vietnam War, and therefore reasonably authentic, or promises sushi made by someone who just really loves Japanese culture, man.

The American bistro or brasserie whose innards can invariably be described as “steampunk by way of West Elm.”

The brunch place that plies you with the same mimosas and pickle-tinged Bloody Marys, with the same menu of dressed-up, oversauced leftovers of every brunch place. Eggs-whatever. Bourbon bacon. Avocado everywhere. Truffle fries? De rigeur.

Public murals that dare you to pass them without posing for a pic for the ‘gram. Even the dive bars can blur together when you’ve been to enough of them.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 03:24:14 PM by taestell »

Offline Robuu

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #441 on: August 28, 2018, 09:22:05 AM »
I, for one, welcome our Edison bulb overlords.

Whatever "cool" city innovation happens will quickly be available to us in Ohio at a discounted rate.

Offline mu2010

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #442 on: August 28, 2018, 09:25:12 AM »
I posted this back in February:

I just listened to an interview with Carrie Brownstein, one of the co-stars of Portlandia, in which she talked about the final season of that show. One interesting topic that came up was how much American cities have changed since the show first came on the air in 2011. When Portlandia started, the show was making fun of over-the-top hipster stuff that you'd only find in places like Portland (or maybe SF or Brooklyn), but now, most of those things are mainstream. You no longer have to go to Portland to find a gourmet donut shop or a "curated" flea market or a third wave coffee shop with an interior made of reclaimed wood or a dozen microbreweries specializing in obscure styles of beer. Literally every mid-sized American city now has all of those things.

Aaron Renn published a great article on this topic today:

Quote
One of the most important writing decisions I ever made was to make the original Urbanophile a Midwestern regional blog, not just a single city blog. I did that because people in these Midwest cities did not even know what was going on in the next city just 100 miles down the road. They were celebrating all these downtown condos being built. But the same condos were being built everywhere. I wanted to try to help bring awareness to this, to help give Midwest cities a sense of the regional market.

But even today people in most cities don’t really seem to get it that every city now has this stuff. Their city has dramatically improved relative to its own recent past, but it’s unclear how much it’s improved versus peers if at all.

He quotes from this New York magazine article:

Quote
In every single city mid-size and above you’ll also find:

The barbecue place with lacquered-wooden tables that repel sauce, creating an atmosphere that is content to evoke the feeling of a roadside joint that roasts its hogs whole in a real pit for 12 hours, without actually providing that feeling in full.

The Asian-fusion restaurant that is either owned by one of the Vietnamese families who came to America after the Vietnam War, and therefore reasonably authentic, or promises sushi made by someone who just really loves Japanese culture, man.

The American bistro or brasserie whose innards can invariably be described as “steampunk by way of West Elm.”

The brunch place that plies you with the same mimosas and pickle-tinged Bloody Marys, with the same menu of dressed-up, oversauced leftovers of every brunch place. Eggs-whatever. Bourbon bacon. Avocado everywhere. Truffle fries? De rigeur.

Public murals that dare you to pass them without posing for a pic for the ‘gram. Even the dive bars can blur together when you’ve been to enough of them.

So, cities are getting better, and the public's tastes are getting better. Small businesses with some degree of  uniqueness are thriving instead of everybody going to TGI Fridays? Sounds like a good thing to me.

Offline viscomi

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #443 on: August 28, 2018, 10:06:28 AM »
I think we will see some diversification eventually. Urban centers for the most part had been on a hiatus for what, about 50 years? Probably more like 70. There needed to be a template/blueprint to guide this, for many, new frontier.

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #444 on: August 28, 2018, 10:28:01 AM »
I posted a couple paragraphs of response on the Urbanophile website, but the gist of it is that I'd take high-quality urban sameness over low-quality suburban sameness any day. 

Offline ucgrady

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #445 on: August 28, 2018, 10:36:57 AM »
I think this is especially a problem in new construction, and it's extremely visible with our local chains like Senate, Eagle and Bakersfield. These are easily repeatable, and when they find themselves in new construction they are generic (another example is Condado in Short North vs it's more generic forms in Easton / the Banks).

It's only the unique eccentricities that come from a 100 year old building in a 100+ year old neighborhood that really make these places truly unique. That is exactly why OTR will always be more interesting to me than most other Midwestern enclaves.

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #446 on: August 28, 2018, 11:05:11 AM »
I think this is especially a problem in new construction, and it's extremely visible with our local chains like Senate, Eagle and Bakersfield. These are easily repeatable, and when they find themselves in new construction they are generic (another example is Condado in Short North vs it's more generic forms in Easton / the Banks).

It's only the unique eccentricities that come from a 100 year old building in a 100+ year old neighborhood that really make these places truly unique. That is exactly why OTR will always be more interesting to me than most other Midwestern enclaves.

Sort of like how all the Chipotle restaurants in new buildings are trying to hard to pretend like they're old, and they do a better job than most (the exposed bar joists and ductwork you can get in any new commercial building works with the industrial aesthetic they have), but it still comes off as a bit forced.  The Clifton Avenue location was their first one here, and it's definitely the coolest.  But it's also the only one in an old building. 

Don Pablo's, which has been a fixture at Rookwood Pavilion has also recently closed.  That's kind of an interesting and sad situation because they based other new locations on the design of the Rookwood (LeBlond Machine Tools) power house.  Unfortunately, being a strip mall, it's unlikely that anything but another chain is going to be put in there. 

Offline taestell

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #447 on: August 28, 2018, 11:09:11 AM »
To be clear, I have no problem with these types of establishments even if have become a bit cookie cutter looking. I will seek out good pour-over coffee from a third wave coffee shop before going into a Starbucks any day. The existence of these places is indeed a sign that the general public's tastes are improving.

The reason it came up in this thread back in February, and the reason Aaron Renn posted an article about it, is to point out that these types of places simply aren't enough to make your city successful. Every mid-size or larger American city now has great coffee, great artisanal donuts, great hipster tacos, great BBQ served on butcher paper, etc. It is now considered par for the course to have great food. The cities that thrive will be the ones that can push beyond this and play up the actual uniqueness of their city.

Offline taestell

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #448 on: August 28, 2018, 11:11:51 AM »
Don Pablo's, which has been a fixture at Rookwood Pavilion has also recently closed.  That's kind of an interesting and sad situation because they based other new locations on the design of the Rookwood (LeBlond Machine Tools) power house.  Unfortunately, being a strip mall, it's unlikely that anything but another chain is going to be put in there. 

I would LMAO if the former Don Pablo's space became a Bakersfield.

Offline JohnClevesSymmes

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Re: Gentrification News & Discussion
« Reply #449 on: August 28, 2018, 11:39:54 AM »
Don Pablo's, which has been a fixture at Rookwood Pavilion has also recently closed.  That's kind of an interesting and sad situation because they based other new locations on the design of the Rookwood (LeBlond Machine Tools) power house.  Unfortunately, being a strip mall, it's unlikely that anything but another chain is going to be put in there. 

I would LMAO if the former Don Pablo's space became a Bakersfield.

We have too many breweries but it would make a great brewery.