Author Topic: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News  (Read 84503 times)

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Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2760 on: July 04, 2018, 08:03:25 AM »
The city isn't even willing to come up with the funding necessary for preliminary engineering for the multi-modal transportation station. That will probably be a million or two. Amazingly, there are federal railroad funds available for this very purpose as Congress boosted passenger rail funding by $1.3 billion in 2018. But to get a piece of it will require a local match. The city hasn't offered up a nickle to leverage the federal money. The multi-modal station provides the foundation and the base for the land bridge. The mall extension would merely be a green roof to this facility.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline imjustinjk

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2761 on: July 04, 2018, 03:54:38 PM »
Not sure if this was posted earlier.

Cleveland Mall / North Coast Harbor
Land Bridge Proposal

OVERVIEW
The Green Ribbon Coalition is proposing that the City of Cleveland, Cuyahoga County and other stakeholders consider the building of a land bridge
from The Mall to North Coast Harbor versus other types of structures that have been put forth. This document presents design guidelines and a
concept plan for a land bridge that the GRC is recommending for further study.

Extending the Cleveland Mall northward from the 1903 Group Plan has been discussed for decades. However, the infrastructure separating the
city’s civic center from its lakefront has been one of the city’s greatest land use challenges. (See figure 1) Over the years, a range of designs have
been proposed combining different bridge and building structures to close this gap. Among these is the currently proposed cable-stayed bridge.

Other cities are burying unsightly infrastructure while working to connect their city centers with their waterfronts. “Iconic” structures such as the
proposed cable-stayed bridge are better suited where the features they traverse are meant to be highlighted, such as a river or sea channel. Cities
like Chicago, Seattle and Philadelphia are capping their railways and freeways while re-connecting their downtowns with their waterfronts.
Cleveland should to do the same.

The City of Philadelphia has similar challenges as Cleveland with a freeway obstructing access to its historic waterfront along the Delaware River.
Conceptual designs released in 2014 show where a proposed waterfront park will cap Interstate 95, reconnecting Philadelphia’s City Center with its
riverfront. (See Figure 2) The 11- acre park is part of a nearly fully funded $225 million development initiative that includes recreational trails along
the river.

https://www.greenribbonlakefront.org/projects/landbridge/

https://www.greenribbonlakefront.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Land-Bridge-Proposal_GRC_2018-04-24_3.6-1.pdf


This would be great, but Cleveland would probably cheap it out like they did with Public Square. It would end up in a state of non-completion like Public Square.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2762 on: July 04, 2018, 05:49:21 PM »
Maybe their could be some sort of public/private cooperation on this.  The land bridge and intermodal project could be part of some larger private development.  Of course the odds of that were better if we had thought of that before Pace began making his plans for North Coast Harbor.

Online StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2763 on: July 04, 2018, 07:32:10 PM »
^In a weak market city like Cleveland, the subsidy almost always runs the other way. Can't imagine private development would ever be rich enough to cross subside a huge capital project like a land bridge.

Offline jeremyck01

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2764 on: July 04, 2018, 09:22:18 PM »

This would be great, but Cleveland would probably cheap it out like they did with Public Square. It would end up in a state of non-completion like Public Square.

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.  Public Square was not "cheap"ed out.  It is widely considered a smashing success.  Even Steven Litt in the PD raved about it upon it's opening.  Also, by non-completion, to what are you referring?  If you mean the temporary barriers, that's because the Dept of Homeland Security recommended barriers after the project was finished.  There will be more attractive permanent barriers installed.

Online Enginerd

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2765 on: July 04, 2018, 11:09:24 PM »

This would be great, but Cleveland would probably cheap it out like they did with Public Square. It would end up in a state of non-completion like Public Square.

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.  Public Square was not "cheap"ed out.  It is widely considered a smashing success.  Even Steven Litt in the PD raved about it upon it's opening.  Also, by non-completion, to what are you referring?  If you mean the temporary barriers, that's because the Dept of Homeland Security recommended barriers after the project was finished.  There will be more attractive permanent barriers installed.

I agree that Public Square was not “cheaped” by any stretch of the imagination.

But I would like to push back on the notion that DHS recommendation it closed. The City Safety Director recommended it closed, justifying that based in part on a memo from the US House committee on Homeland Securtiy regarding truck attacks.

The federal government never weighed in on Public Square specifically as far as I’m aware.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2766 on: July 05, 2018, 08:28:12 AM »

The federal government never weighed in on Public Square specifically as far as I’m aware.

It did from a transportation perspective-- having to approve the change to a federal highway route and to deny the discontinuity of dedicated transit lanes on Superior that were funded in part by a federal grant.
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Offline freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2767 on: July 12, 2018, 10:01:17 PM »
Nothing really new in this report from WEWS but some decent video.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/e-team/north-coast-harbor-harbor-verandas-project-development

Offline dave2017

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2768 on: July 12, 2018, 11:00:19 PM »
I am interested to see what the developers have planned between RRHF and GLSC.  The video says an announcement should be made by late summer. This development will ultimately have an effect on whatever pedestrian bridge is planned to connect The Malls to the lakefront.

Online Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2769 on: July 13, 2018, 07:19:16 AM »
^ Hotel

Online Eastside

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2770 on: July 13, 2018, 08:08:22 AM »
^ Hotel

Not a bad idea unless our hotel market is saturated already, I don't know if it is.

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2771 on: July 13, 2018, 09:26:17 AM »
^ Hotel

Not a bad idea unless our hotel market is saturated already, I don't know if it is.

Probably pretty close considering we had to boost the numbers for RNC.

Offline tj111

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2772 on: July 13, 2018, 09:43:12 AM »
If you want to get a room downtown this weekend, the cheapest price is ~$330 per night.  That to me doesn't scream over-saturation, if people are pulling those kind of rates I think it can support new construction, especially small-scale.  Maybe in the wintertime when tourism is low it might be a different story, but if you can make your money in the summer you ought to be able to get through the winter with more competitive rates.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2773 on: July 13, 2018, 10:12:40 AM »
If you want to get a room downtown this weekend, the cheapest price is ~$330 per night.  That to me doesn't scream over-saturation, if people are pulling those kind of rates I think it can support new construction, especially small-scale.  Maybe in the wintertime when tourism is low it might be a different story, but if you can make your money in the summer you ought to be able to get through the winter with more competitive rates.

They Yankees are in town so they're offering a taste of New York prices. ;)
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Offline Paul in Cleveland

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2774 on: July 13, 2018, 10:14:21 AM »
^ Hotel

Wasn't there a rendering or massing a few years back of a future hotel between the two that looked like a suburban mid-market thing? That would be awful. And was that Pace or someone else? Hoping that whatever gets proposed/built there is architecturally acceptable.

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2775 on: July 13, 2018, 11:01:03 AM »
If you want to get a room downtown this weekend, the cheapest price is ~$330 per night.  That to me doesn't scream over-saturation, if people are pulling those kind of rates I think it can support new construction, especially small-scale.  Maybe in the wintertime when tourism is low it might be a different story, but if you can make your money in the summer you ought to be able to get through the winter with more competitive rates.

They Yankees are in town so they're offering a taste of New York prices. ;)

Whoa. Downtown hotel rates are absolutely insane this weekend.  Guess we are gouging NYC.

Online surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2776 on: July 13, 2018, 12:54:47 PM »
Just saw this popup ad on cnn.com FAKE NEWS!!!!


edit - here's the where the link takes you https://flatsateastbank.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIurfT2cWc3AIVFn5-Ch1u_gSFEAEYASAAEgLYtPD_BwE
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 12:57:27 PM by surfohio »

Online Pugu

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2777 on: July 13, 2018, 01:41:43 PM »
wow---that's the definition of false advertising, isn't it? nice high rise bldg shown instead of the actual 8-story one?

Offline Florida Guy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2778 on: July 13, 2018, 02:40:42 PM »
According to their website there are only 5 apartments available with more coming in the future.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 02:43:34 PM by Florida Guy »

Online PittsburgoDelendaEst

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2779 on: July 13, 2018, 03:40:48 PM »
There's something a little odd/fishy about that ad. "Flats at East Banks", plus the totally bogus photo?

Unless they've outsourced ads to an agency who is doing a terrible job... Plus if there are only 5 vacancies they'd have little reason to advertise on what is likely an expensive platform.

FYI: The little triangle icon on ads all around the internet will generally show who what service served the ad and why the ad was targeted to you.

Offline dave2017

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2780 on: July 13, 2018, 08:27:55 PM »
Here are plans showing the components proposed north of First Energy Stadium. I  don't understand why there is a need to put a road all along the northern edge of the development. This should be open green space 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 09:07:27 PM by dave2017 »

Offline tj111

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2781 on: July 16, 2018, 09:27:53 AM »
I hope the city steps in and enforces a little better use than a road there.  A walking/bike path would be great.

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2782 on: July 16, 2018, 09:40:29 AM »
As long as there's room along the waterfront for a wide bike/ped bath plus a passive zone (benches, standing at the water's edge), not sure having a road is such a problem. Would love to see a section view of the edge, but even in those renderings it's pretty clear there's a fairly wide bike/ped hardscape along the waterfront.

Online Pugu

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2783 on: July 16, 2018, 10:02:13 AM »
Of the above new bldgs/parking, what happens first and when?

Online musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2784 on: July 16, 2018, 11:07:11 AM »
Perhaps that road is required for fire and safety access to those sections of the project.

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2785 on: July 16, 2018, 11:07:24 AM »
^That diagram is as least three years old and I would imagine that the siting etc is just conceptual.  Pace is allegedly negotiating with a couple of commercial tenants and what their needs and desires are will probably guide the final plan (or at least the initial phase behind the stadium)

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2786 on: July 19, 2018, 09:43:25 AM »
Unfortunately, Green Ribbon Coalition doesn't have any money behind it. Some nice guys with big ideas though...

Six big, bold ideas that could change Cleveland as we know it
http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/bigboldideas2018.aspx
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2787 on: July 19, 2018, 09:47:05 AM »
Unfortunately, Green Ribbon Coalition doesn't have any money behind it. Some nice guys with big ideas though...

Six big, bold ideas that could change Cleveland as we know it
http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/bigboldideas2018.aspx

Moreno's Blockchain idea is really cool - I'd love to see Case start getting in front of that

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2788 on: July 19, 2018, 10:26:27 AM »
Unfortunately, Green Ribbon Coalition doesn't have any money behind it. Some nice guys with big ideas though...

Six big, bold ideas that could change Cleveland as we know it
http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/bigboldideas2018.aspx
I'm curious to find out how much more a land bridge would cost in comparison to that of the $25 million cable bridge that was proposed. It is a much better idea that can be multi use for visitors, families and other residents alike instead of just being a connector, a much better investment imo.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2789 on: July 19, 2018, 10:38:09 AM »

I'm curious to find out how much more a land bridge would cost in comparison to that of the $25 million cable bridge that was proposed. It is a much better idea that can be multi use for visitors, families and other residents alike instead of just being a connector, a much better investment imo.

Don't know how much their proposed land bridge would cost, but to offer some context this smaller, proposed multimodal station with a green roof (thus creating a Mall D) would have cost $125 million in the late 1990s. That price tag doesn't include the parking garage, hotel tower, redesigned Shoreway, etc....

"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.