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Author Topic: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News  (Read 6879 times)

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Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2005, 12:06:21 PM »
As suspected, not much new news here, but there were lots of numbers thrown around about how much has already been spent in developments (public and private) related to the waterfront, as well as projected dollars involving projects on the table.  The plan is being touted as the primary tool to use when the city wants to pursue federal, state and foundation funding for projects such as the lakefront boulevard, waterfront parks, etc.

Of note: the Mather will be setting sail for the other side of North Coast Harbor this weekend (Saturday at 10am, I believe) and the Waterfront District Plan was honored with a very distinguished award this weekend by some Ohio architecture group.  Paul Volpe (City Architecture) presented the award to the Mayor and her staff at the end of the presentation.

Also, there's a fancy new printed version of the Lakefront Plan that should be available through the Planning Commission.  Check http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/lakefront/ for more info...

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2005, 12:11:04 PM »
It's getting harder and harder to not view these unveilings as "Look what Mayor Campbell did, and don't forget to vote!" events, but good news is good news even if it's not really "news," I guess.

I think it is appropriate to take credit for things that are genuinely products of her ideas and work. 

Offline urbanlife

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2005, 07:20:02 PM »
this plan looks interesting, and i give them a lot of credit for putting together a comprehensive, good looking presentation.

2 concerns that immediately struck me.

1) this is a future roadmap, yet it isn't very ambitious in many areas.á although expanding on dock 32 and surrounding area makes a lot of sense, i'm disappointed that there isn't more of a push for high rise residential anywhere on this plan.á Everything along the lake looks like 4 or 5 stories.á although this might be what is ultimately built, if we are going to be successful as a city, i'd hope that a few residential towers would be part of the "plan", whether they ultimately come to fruition.

2) transit connections.á from the looks of this plan, the new development isn't that close to the proposed new stations on expanded waterfront line.á again, this is just a "plan", however with all of the talk about TOD, and lessons learned from past rail extensions, i'm a little surprised to see what i consider to be the same, failing philosophy about station location.á where was joe c during the planning here??

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2005, 10:38:45 PM »
I agree, urbanlife.  In many ways the plan is too conservative.  I think that once people get a taste of what urban waterfront living can be, the demand will be much higher than they projected.  That's the problem with doing market studies on a product that doesn't exist yet.  People have a very hard time imagining things, especially huge comprehensive remakings of an environment.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2005, 12:48:16 PM »
I don't think the plan is conservative at all!  I think it's very ambitious to take a grouping of land this large and try to master plan it as they've done.  It was a HUGE undertaking!  The drawings and shapes and heights of buildings are all very hypothetical.  There's nothing saying that a developer can't propose a taller structure in any of those places...unless zoning prohibits it...but I have a feeling that the City is going to be looking for investment and will do zoning changes or variances wherever necessary. 

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2005, 02:41:32 PM »
I meant conservative in the number of units they are proposing.  Of course that number can always go up, but I'd hate to see the whole lakefront be developed at a relatively low density (to what it could support) and then run out of land to develop more without having to tear into things.  But yes, the Lakefront Plan as a whole is one of the most ambitious undertakings I know of.  Certainly the most ambitious in Greater Cleveland.

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2005, 08:38:42 AM »
CLEVELAND - Mayor Jane Campbell unveiled new sketches and updated progress on the city's plan to remake the lakefront.
Campbell is updating efforts to bring Clevelanders to the water.

$100 million has already spent on projects like the Key 55 housing complex and walkways near Voinovich Park.

Waterfront living at Battery Park and plans to make the west Shoreway a boulevard are moving along.

And, the Mather Shipping Museum's is moving this weekend. It will dock next to the science center.

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=41033



did they mean Quay 55????

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2005, 11:09:43 AM »
"Quay" is pronounced "key."  This was the press conference I wrote about on September 20th...more details on the city's website!

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2006, 10:44:14 AM »
There will be a design subcommittee meeting on the Shoreway project coming up at 8 a.m. Wednesday on the access points. It will be held at City Hall, in Room 6 in the basement. The public is invited to attend.

Subcommittee members are debating where the access points should be on the reconfigured Shoreway. As many of you know, the Shoreway will become a reduced speed boulevard with intersections, landscaping etc.

For more information, go to http://www.innerbelt.org/Lakefrontwest/Lakefronthome.htm
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2006, 08:22:09 AM »
I could not make it to this.
Did anybody go? Any info?

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 08:22:59 AM by musky »

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2006, 11:09:10 AM »
From the April 26th minutes, posted on the Innerbelt Lakefront ODOT page:

http://www.innerbelt.org/Lakefrontwest/Lakefronthome.htm


Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2007, 07:57:33 AM »
Litt Blog:

Cleveland picks strong team to design North Coast Harbor pedestrian bridge
Posted by Steven LittÉ
August 27, 2007 17:11PM


Local governments rarely reach for pathbreaking design excellence when they hire architects and engineers. But the first highly visible project launched by Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson since he took office in January could be a departure from the norm.

Last week, a selection committee composed of city officials picked a design team with real international firepower to design a proposed $6.1 million pedestrian bridge at North Coast Harbor in downtown Cleveland...

More at: http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2007/08/_local_governments_rarely_reac.html
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 11:04:42 AM by McCleveland »

Offline the pope

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2007, 07:59:22 AM »
oh, a curvy suspension bridge, how fun.

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2007, 09:08:54 AM »
Excellent selection Frank Jackson.  Impressive that the city FINALLY recognizes the importantance of design.

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2007, 11:06:16 AM »
You know, for someone in the architecture field and a person who lives in the Cleveland region, you sure portray in image of ignorance when a firm, team or design does not meet your standards. I am sure I do not have to explain the public bidding process to you that is required by law.

Offline jpop

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2007, 11:50:29 AM »
Excellent selection Frank Jackson.  Impressive that the city FINALLY recognizes the importantance of design.

Thank you. :) I agree. I'm excited about this project.

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2007, 12:30:58 PM »
You know, for someone in the architecture field and a person who lives in the Cleveland region, you sure portray in image of ignorance when a firm, team or design does not meet your standards. I am sure I do not have to explain the public bidding process to you that is required by law.


Why don't you go ahead and reread my post musky.  I think this will be a GOOD project because they chose a designer based on skills, not political connections or a misguided architect selection, and I applaud Frank Jackson for this.  Not sure what crawled up your ass, but this isn't the thread to be lecturing me on my negative opinions of local architecture.  I'm down for this one.  Just because the selection process is flawed into being forced to use the lowest bidder for public projects, that is no excuse for subpar design.  If you and CSU want to continue accepting C+ architecture, that's your problem.  Not sure why you brought this up here, but the negative side of my opions is recently reserved for the CSU Student Center, we can chat over on that thread if you'd like to continue your thoughts on what you think I should think good design is, and my personal compitency level.  Check that, I couldn't give a damn what you think.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 12:33:50 PM by w28th »

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2007, 12:37:00 PM »
um, yeah for the bridge!

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2007, 12:41:35 PM »
I do not question what you think is good design. And usually I agree with you.
I get upset when you blame the city, CSU, other public agency for picking a design that is more often then not, chosen due to legal reasons.

If Joe's Floor Refinishing and Bridge Design Company out bids a firm founded by DaVinci, then we have to accept that process and the design that comes with it, or change the process. That process is currently in the hands of those downstate. Don't like it? Change it!

And btw, I have made my dislike of the student center clear in the CSU thread - and I have no say in what IS chosen, that would be... THE PROCESS

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2007, 12:52:18 PM »
^Design issues aside, there are sound public policy reasons begin the bidding process on public projects.  Among other things, to protect taxpayer pocket books and hopefully prevent fraud and collusion.  These statutes are nationwide and were years in the making. 

Offline Avogadro

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2007, 01:05:28 PM »
One of the things that a public entity can do, under the O.R.C., is to have a two-tiered process with a Request for Qualifications and a subsequent Request for Proposals.

In the RFQ, you cast a wide net and set a general set of standards pertinent to the eventual project, without worrying about the eventual cost.  That way, the J'sFR&BDCo can get weeded out early.  The selected firms then would compete for the RFP, for which cost will be a major criteria, but not the only one.

Adding an RFQ generally adds at least three months to the process, but done well, you have a somewhat better chance of getting a competent and imaginative designer.  And, if you can get the RFP scoresheet to put more weight on design than cost, then a great designer ought to rise to the top (provided that the contract is under budget).

Unfortunately, there is a lot of pressure to contain costs, which oftentimes means that design takes a back seat.  But, with a more enlightened design culture, even the politicos could loosen the purse strings a bit (while still maintaining the legal nature of the process).

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2007, 01:11:07 PM »
I understand.

So how does this explain the mess with the Breuer Tower?

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2007, 01:18:29 PM »
I blamed nobody for anything on this thread.  I realize the flaws in the process, I really do, but that is no excuse for public projects.  If anything I'm being critical of people in my own field.  Architects for the most part are slugs when it comes to design, but for some reason you come out and attack me and and say,
"you sure portray in image of ignorance when a firm, team or design does not meet your standards."
Hey man, all I do here is express my opinions and expect better results in a time where contemporary architecture and urban design are changing the WORLD and the way people live and interact with space.  That's what I expect, and that's what we should all expect.  And we very rarely get it.
I question why the hell you are bringing this up on this thread, maybe the one thread where I am absolutely in favor of what is going on.

Offline Avogadro

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2007, 01:23:52 PM »
So how does this explain the mess with the Breuer Tower?

Boy, it really doesn't.  I'm afraid I wasn't privy to much of the goings-on with that one.  My understanding is that the final product (if it ever happens) will probably not bear much resemblance to what we've seen.  I'm not even sure if there was a RFQ before the RFP.  I don't think that there was, however.  It's not a method that is used often, but it should be.

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2007, 01:30:18 PM »
w28th:
Ok

Avogadro:
Thanks

Offline superceleb

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2007, 01:42:06 PM »
This sounds pretty cool. I love the Liberty Bridge in Greenville.

Offline WoollyBear

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2007, 01:46:08 PM »
The bridge in Greenville, S.C. is unbelievable (as is the entire city). Hopefully this will spur some development down on the harbor.


Offline jpop

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2007, 02:02:12 PM »
I blamed nobody for anything on this thread.  I realize the flaws in the process, I really do, but that is no excuse for public projects.  If anything I'm being critical of people in my own field.  Architects for the most part are slugs when it comes to design, but for some reason you come out and attack me and and say,
"you sure portray in image of ignorance when a firm, team or design does not meet your standards."
Hey man, all I do here is express my opinions and expect better results in a time where contemporary architecture and urban design are changing the WORLD and the way people live and interact with space.  That's what I expect, and that's what we should all expect.  And we very rarely get it.
I question why the hell you are bringing this up on this thread, maybe the one thread where I am absolutely in favor of what is going on.

If anyone agrees with you, I do. Which shouldn't be a surprise.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2007, 02:03:57 PM »
w28th:
Ok

Avogadro:
Thanks

Aw, c'mon!! I want to see a fight! A BLOODBATH!! 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 02:04:41 PM by KJP »
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2007, 02:13:34 PM »
Sorry. Not worth it.
Something about arguing with architectural students/recent grads that makes it all futile.