Author Topic: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News  (Read 65769 times)

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Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2550 on: September 19, 2017, 09:07:46 PM »
Props to Green Ribbon (including some all star UO folks) for proposing an interesting alternative.

I think the bridge is visually interesting but very much lacking in practicality. The bridge just doesn't seem to integrate well with the much needed NC Transit Center. By the way, glad to hear the purported support from Jackson, great news.

I'll go ahead and dust off the Lakefront Convention Center proposal, because once I saw it that made it hard for me to settle for anything else.   

Offline Davidsmith121

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2551 on: September 19, 2017, 11:26:31 PM »

It is worth revisiting the proposed designs from the 2009 lakefront station Cleveland Design Competition. The 2nd place design is very similar to the latest design proposal from Green Ribbon.


Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2552 on: September 20, 2017, 12:22:09 AM »
I'd rather make the area as visually appealing as possible. Instead of a winding suspension bridge that spans over the rails and roadway, why not bridge over it with as much land cover as possible... wouldn't it make sense to enhance the environment, covering over mass transportation eye-sores? One thing I like about the Nexus plan; which I know it's part of a design competition, is that it covers and hides the peripheral vision of both the highway and the rails; all while updating the station which desperately needs aesthetic attention. I know the station is basically federal because it's Amtrak, but isn't it also connected via blue/green rta lines? So do we even need federal approval to rebuild the station?

Currently I'm all in favor of bridging land over roadways and railways. Is there any way we could build over these transits to where they become like another tower city?

Also I love tunnels. I recently went over to Paris, France and they have a sub-city highway that runs through the financial district of the city. It even encompasses a metro line. It's the A14 which turns into N13 and it goes straight to the Arc De Triomphe. Paris did something right hiding their motorways. Good for expansion when cities run out of room. This being said, can we just completely bridge over i-90 turning it into another green ribbon? I'd also be in favor or ridding i-90 of the super frequent exits through the campus district. Its something we don't need right before smashing into Dead-Mans curve. I think this would help lakefront access. A good lakefront is one thing, accessibility and walkability are another thing.

*sorry if I spewed off topic*
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 12:23:23 AM by tastybunns »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2553 on: September 20, 2017, 09:16:18 AM »
I'd rather make the area as visually appealing as possible. Instead of a winding suspension bridge that spans over the rails and roadway, why not bridge over it with as much land cover as possible... wouldn't it make sense to enhance the environment, covering over mass transportation eye-sores? One thing I like about the Nexus plan; which I know it's part of a design competition, is that it covers and hides the peripheral vision of both the highway and the rails; all while updating the station which desperately needs aesthetic attention. I know the station is basically federal because it's Amtrak, but isn't it also connected via blue/green rta lines? So do we even need federal approval to rebuild the station?

This project won't happen without federal funds. And Amtrak isn't an influencing factor here. It owns no property in the project area. It does have an easement, as does GCRTA. But unlike GCRTA, Amtrak has never paid a dime of rent or other compensation for its easement. The Amtrak station sits here because the city wanted them here rather than at Cleveland Union Terminal when Amtrak's Lake Shore service returned in 1975 after a three-year hiatus. No compensation was ever demanded by the city in 1975 so Amtrak never paid anything. However, to hedge against the city changing its mind, Amtrak purchased a strip of land in the fading East 26th Rail Yard that was used for storing and staging iron ore jennies, which is where Amtrak could relocate its Cleveland station just in case. That site no longer works for Amtrak as it is east of where Amtrak's two routes split; any Amtrak station has to be at or west of the walkway between the North Point office building and its parking garage. BTW, the portion of the yard closest to South Marginal Road is being considered as the new location for the Cleveland outlet mall.

And yes, considering this is a significant transportation project that is likely to use federal funds, the project development process will have to follow the National Environmental Policy Act. That means that any final site selected as well as preliminary and final designs will have to be approved by all federal agencies having jurisdiction including the Federal Highway Administration, Federal Railroad Administration, Federal Transit Administration and possibly others as well.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2554 on: October 28, 2017, 05:18:47 PM »

A Highway Runs Through It
The demolition of the FirstEnergy plant presents Cleveland a unique opportunity to return neglected Gordon Park to its glory days, but a few obstacles stand in the way
By Daniel McGraw


Let's do a hypothetical. You're in University Circle with some friends from out of town. Maybe you're enjoying a bite in Little Italy or gazing in awe at the world-class collection at the Cleveland Museum of Art. It's been fun. Your friends are thrilled. What about Lake Erie, though? It's close, isn't it? They've never seen a Great Lake before and want to bask in the freshwater wonder before leaving town. Any lakefront parks close by that you can take them to?

You think for a minute and rattle of the options: Mentor Headlands 30 miles to the east; Huntington Beach 20 miles to the west; East Ninth by the Rock Hall, a pier not a park; and Edgewater Park about 10 miles away just west of downtown. Maybe you check Google to make sure you haven't missed anything else — that's it, right? — or maybe some trace of a memory emerges and you say, oh yeah, there's one more option: the Gordon Park area -- with its fishing piers and boat launch ramps -- just three miles north, a nice ride down MLK Jr. Dr. through Rockefeller Park. Seems like the obvious choice, right?

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/a-highway-runs-through-it/Content?oid=11243699&utm_source=Cleveland+Scene+-+Weekly+Newsletters&utm_campaign=9e3eb9c970-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_63c629abc4-9e3eb9c970-35256177

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2555 on: October 31, 2017, 12:28:31 AM »

A Highway Runs Through It
The demolition of the FirstEnergy plant presents Cleveland a unique opportunity to return neglected Gordon Park to its glory days, but a few obstacles stand in the way
By Daniel McGraw


Let's do a hypothetical. You're in University Circle with some friends from out of town. Maybe you're enjoying a bite in Little Italy or gazing in awe at the world-class collection at the Cleveland Museum of Art. It's been fun. Your friends are thrilled. What about Lake Erie, though? It's close, isn't it? They've never seen a Great Lake before and want to bask in the freshwater wonder before leaving town. Any lakefront parks close by that you can take them to?

You think for a minute and rattle of the options: Mentor Headlands 30 miles to the east; Huntington Beach 20 miles to the west; East Ninth by the Rock Hall, a pier not a park; and Edgewater Park about 10 miles away just west of downtown. Maybe you check Google to make sure you haven't missed anything else — that's it, right? — or maybe some trace of a memory emerges and you say, oh yeah, there's one more option: the Gordon Park area -- with its fishing piers and boat launch ramps -- just three miles north, a nice ride down MLK Jr. Dr. through Rockefeller Park. Seems like the obvious choice, right?

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/a-highway-runs-through-it/Content?oid=11243699&utm_source=Cleveland+Scene+-+Weekly+Newsletters&utm_campaign=9e3eb9c970-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_63c629abc4-9e3eb9c970-35256177

Villa Angela/Euclid Beach isn't bad at all either, and I understand they are doing some upgrades.

Offline MidwestChamp

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2556 on: October 31, 2017, 07:09:02 PM »

A Highway Runs Through It
The demolition of the FirstEnergy plant presents Cleveland a unique opportunity to return neglected Gordon Park to its glory days, but a few obstacles stand in the way
By Daniel McGraw


Let's do a hypothetical. You're in University Circle with some friends from out of town. Maybe you're enjoying a bite in Little Italy or gazing in awe at the world-class collection at the Cleveland Museum of Art. It's been fun. Your friends are thrilled. What about Lake Erie, though? It's close, isn't it? They've never seen a Great Lake before and want to bask in the freshwater wonder before leaving town. Any lakefront parks close by that you can take them to?

You think for a minute and rattle of the options: Mentor Headlands 30 miles to the east; Huntington Beach 20 miles to the west; East Ninth by the Rock Hall, a pier not a park; and Edgewater Park about 10 miles away just west of downtown. Maybe you check Google to make sure you haven't missed anything else — that's it, right? — or maybe some trace of a memory emerges and you say, oh yeah, there's one more option: the Gordon Park area -- with its fishing piers and boat launch ramps -- just three miles north, a nice ride down MLK Jr. Dr. through Rockefeller Park. Seems like the obvious choice, right?

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/a-highway-runs-through-it/Content?oid=11243699&utm_source=Cleveland+Scene+-+Weekly+Newsletters&utm_campaign=9e3eb9c970-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_63c629abc4-9e3eb9c970-35256177

I really think moving the shroeway in the manner depicted here makes sense.  Gordon Park was once the beautiful lakefront head to Rockefeller Park but was destroyed by the freeway.   But this is a once in 100 year opportunity to correct that mistake, if we begin planning for it now before other interest start making decisions that cannot be undone.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2557 on: November 06, 2017, 07:05:09 PM »
Rumors are that the city is at least continuing (if not intensifying) its efforts to move the SS Cod for Geis' development and the Mather for the Pace development.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline lockdog

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2558 on: November 06, 2017, 08:30:51 PM »
I would love to see development continue on the lakefront...  my idea would be to build a boardwalk north of Burke and put them there...??

Online dave2017

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2559 on: November 06, 2017, 10:10:05 PM »
Rumors are that the city is at least continuing (if not intensifying) its efforts to move the SS Cod for Geis' development and the Mather for the Pace development.


Isn't The Mather part of The GLSC? 


Offline E Rocc

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2560 on: November 07, 2017, 01:07:13 AM »
Rumors are that the city is at least continuing (if not intensifying) its efforts to move the SS Cod for Geis' development and the Mather for the Pace development.

The USS Cod is a National Historical Landmark, so moving her might be problematic especially for private development.

Though supposedly she is actually still seaworthy so an effort to put her in the water and take her out on special occasions might gain traction.   Though she would have to be protected from ice.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2561 on: November 07, 2017, 09:37:22 AM »
Rumors are that the city is at least continuing (if not intensifying) its efforts to move the SS Cod for Geis' development and the Mather for the Pace development.

It is.


Isn't The Mather part of The GLSC? 



Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2562 on: November 07, 2017, 10:21:44 AM »
Here's the background:
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2015/12/uss_cod_gains_traction_as_clev.html

Historic or landmark status doesn't prevent the city from moving the Cod. It does create additional layers of approvals/hearings necessary before a move can occur, however.

I'm sure the city would find and fund for the Cod and Mather new locations before moving them.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline Pugu

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2563 on: November 07, 2017, 12:13:55 PM »
from the PD article: "A local landmark designation would apply to both the submarine and the half-acre piece of public property where it has been moored for more than 50 years"

this is crazy. Is should apply to the sub only. There's nothing historical to the land around it. All it does is make lakefront development more difficult. The sub is a water vessel -- it can be moved. Lakefront land cannot.

Offline freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2564 on: November 08, 2017, 12:25:58 AM »
So a couple of years ago I floated the idea ( see what I did there) about moving the USS COD over to the old Coast Guard Station (page 40 of this thread). With the possible move of the COD in the future just wanted to bring that up again. The Coast Guard station is undergoing renovations now with more to come. I am saying it could be a component of something bigger there as an added attraction to whatever use the station finds. Below is a mock-up that another forumer put together at the time.

Offline freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2565 on: December 27, 2017, 10:49:40 PM »
If you are not familiar with the Green Ribbon Coalition they are an advocacy group that promotes all thing lakefront. They have put together a proposal for a 'landbridge' connecting the mall to the lakefront.  https://www.greenribbonlakefront.org

Below is a link to the PDF

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/918855_5ef6d76864c34d748e650a59075aee9a.pdf

Online dave2017

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2566 on: December 28, 2017, 12:19:21 AM »
While I commend the concept of the land bridge , I find the plan confusing.  I don't see any of this happening.  How many years has it been in development for the iNorth Coast Harbor Bridge that has been proposed and changed since 2008!.  I also do not understand where the Mall needs to connect directly The GLSC and RRHF. No panning was ever considered to add parking to renovated Convention Center/Burnham Mall areas.   The Waterfront Line should have been better designed to have carried passengers directly from Tower City to the museums front steps.   Any plans  that were to activate the Malls for better use was sidestepped and all ideas were transferred to Public Square. 

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2567 on: December 29, 2017, 04:27:22 PM »
I’d like to see more renderings, and cost estimates too, but the land bridge they’re proposing is a much better option than the Rosales bridge. The city has been psychologically disconnected from the water for too long. Rosales emphasizes  that disconnect. The land bridge helps cure it.

Offline jeremyck01

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2568 on: December 29, 2017, 06:38:28 PM »
If you are not familiar with the Green Ribbon Coalition they are an advocacy group that promotes all thing lakefront. They have put together a proposal for a 'landbridge' connecting the mall to the lakefront.  https://www.greenribbonlakefront.org

Below is a link to the PDF

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/918855_5ef6d76864c34d748e650a59075aee9a.pdf

There was also a landbridge proposal about 10 years ago when the city was looking at bridge options.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2569 on: December 29, 2017, 09:34:58 PM »
I’d like to see more renderings, and cost estimates too, but the land bridge they’re proposing is a much better option than the Rosales bridge. The city has been psychologically disconnected from the water for too long. Rosales emphasizes  that disconnect. The land bridge helps cure it.

A land bridge, as suggested by this coalition, will cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build. No one has that kind of money. There is money available now to build two basic, enclosed walkways -- one over the railroad tracks and one over the Shoreway with an intermodal center in between them.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online dave2017

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2570 on: December 30, 2017, 06:59:04 AM »
I was playing around with a concept I had in mind for connecting The Burnham Malls with North Coast Harbor. First plan is to extend the  Huntington Parking Structure and Willard park's structure . Huntington would extend all the way to the Shoreway Bridge.  This would alleviate the need for more Convention Center parking ,courthouses, and for events at First Energy Stadium.  Willard Park's structure should be filled in all the way o East 9th St.   Both rooftops of these structures should be turned into green spaces and the east west promenade restored from West 3rd to East 9th. The most dramatic change would be to extend the existing promenades as land bridges crossing the railroad tracks and shore way. Instead of sloping down, these should remain level with Mall C.  The west promenade would land at the second level of The First Energy Stadium . This would provide a better flow iand connection to activate the Malls during sporting events, i.e. tailgate parties.  The two promenades would end at a new overlook that would have escalators and elevators to the redesigned plazas below.  I would eliminate the drop off area to the front of The GLSC and hardscape the area between GLSC and RRHF .  This still provides an added area for a connector building between the 2 museums.  The promenade extension building below could also act as a restaurant /retail space.   This plan also leaves the area east of the extended area for the eventual multimodal transportation center.  This could easily connect to the raised land bridge promenades.  Thoughts
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 04:10:23 AM by dave2017 »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2571 on: December 30, 2017, 11:42:46 AM »
Very nice design. But again, very expensive. For context, building this North Coast Transportation Center with a green roof/Mall D would cost about $125 million to $150 million....
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline viscomi

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2572 on: December 30, 2017, 03:37:19 PM »
Nice mockup, Dave. Not a huge fan of what you did with the northern terminus of the land bridge. Though having played around with my own lakefront land bridge concepts I certainly understand the difficulties in ending a land bridge gracefully with the current layout/infrastructure here.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2573 on: December 30, 2017, 04:42:23 PM »
I've always thought that instead of bridging the Shoreway we should follow through on plans to convert it to a boulevard and combine in the Marginal Roads, thus leaving only the tracks to be bridged- as KJP's rendering shown, but with a larger footprint like dave2017's rendering.  With the right mix of uses in the landing structure between the new Shoreway Boulevard and the tracks it could generate some revenue to offset the costs of construction- though I wouldn't expect it to be a money maker.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2574 on: December 30, 2017, 04:54:05 PM »
The climate is also RIPE (with the growth of the Hingetown-Detroit Shoreway cooridor) to spend political capital to finally push through the re-routing of freight traffic off of this route that KJP has mentioned many times on this forum.   Removing most of that traffic would help simplify construction, and the actual enjoyment of the area.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2575 on: January 14, 2018, 11:55:32 AM »
Detroit RiverWalk link features path over water



Newly released renderings of a proposed link for the Detroit RiverWalk show it would jut onto the river and connect the 3.5-mile pedestrian/bicycle trail with West Riverfront Park.

The updated images highlight a public RiverWalk path that sits atop the Detroit River and is 17 feet from the current water’s edge, which is private property. The property is part of the Riverfront Towers, a rental and condominium complex. The residential complex, made up of three residential towers, is just west of Joe Louis Arena.

More below:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2018/01/12/detroit-riverwalk-addition/109406688/

Cross posting from the Detroit thread....I've always thought the part of the Cleveland harbor fronting Burke Lakefront would be great from something like this.   There is a shipping channel there that is rarely (if ever) used by large vessels.   A greenway around Burke complete with some dockage would be a nice use of the space, plus aid in connecting the apartments and marinas east of Burke to the North Coast harbor area.

Offline Pugu

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2576 on: January 14, 2018, 02:58:26 PM »
^Re "greenway around Burke".   

First, sounds like a security issue, though boats can get just as close on the water. But either way this would be an uphil battle with TSA/DHS.
Secondly, you certainly wouldn't want trees in the greenway. Trees attract birds and birds and jet engines don't go so well together.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2577 on: January 14, 2018, 06:15:33 PM »
Cross posting from the Detroit thread....I've always thought the part of the Cleveland harbor fronting Burke Lakefront would be great from something like this.   There is a shipping channel there that is rarely (if ever) used by large vessels.   A greenway around Burke complete with some dockage would be a nice use of the space, plus aid in connecting the apartments and marinas east of Burke to the North Coast harbor area.

I hear you. A community among the wetlands with lake access, connected by boardwalks, in close proximity yet separate from the city....could be something really special. 

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2578 on: January 14, 2018, 07:06:37 PM »
^Re "greenway around Burke".   

First, sounds like a security issue, though boats can get just as close on the water. But either way this would be an uphil battle with TSA/DHS.
Secondly, you certainly wouldn't want trees in the greenway. Trees attract birds and birds and jet engines don't go so well together.


True--trees could not be a part of it.  But I can't see how having a walkway around the airport would be a huge issue.   At any other airport you can walk right up to the fence surrounding the facility.   Plus, you can't see it really unless you're in the air, but there is a large buffer of additional landfill next to 3/4 of Runway 24R/6L.   




Offline snakebite

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Re: Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News
« Reply #2579 on: January 30, 2018, 03:12:38 PM »
Is the Outlet Mall proposal dead? I noticed that a proposal from the company behind this withdrew from a project in Connecticut due to issues with lending in the retail market. Been nothing on this since it was first mooted in July 2016.