Author Topic: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News  (Read 12027 times)

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Offline Toddguy

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #270 on: July 13, 2018, 12:37:04 PM »
Now that this is 'on hold', is there any chance that the property involved with this project could be combined at some time with the strip mall at the intersection with High?

Are there any plans for that little strip mall? If they could combine these properties they could go higher right along High. I have hated that little strip mall for nearly 35 years since that restaurant at the corner was called the Toll House Inn and the Short North was ungentrified.

Offline ink

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #271 on: July 13, 2018, 01:01:47 PM »
^Wood Companies owns that little strip mall, I believe. Unless they would acquire the Kaufman site, I see them holding onto the strip mall and High Street frontage for their own project in the future.

Offline casey

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #272 on: July 15, 2018, 12:18:56 PM »
Not shocked, this development did not fit the area where it was located and given it's surroundings.  If they would've scaled down to 5 stories and built something that was appropriate for the neighborhood it is in it would've been approved. But like my dad used to say they were "trying to fit 10lbs of sh*t in a 5lbs bag."  It didn't fit and I'm glad the neighborhood fought back as strong as they did.

First of all, a 9 story version was fully approved. So they could have just built that. There was almost no vocal opposition at the time. So this notion that something has to be 5 or less to "fit the neighborhood" is ridiculous

But, the real killer of this project I have to say has been Kaufman, not NIMBYs or the VVC. They're the ones who came back and opened a can of worms by seeking to alter the previous approval and revise the project to 14 stories. That brought people out of the woodwork, and they didn't really have any compelling story prepared to sell the benefits of a vastly larger project to the community

The fact that they ended up going back down to 10 in the latest version also demonstrates that they over-asked as far as what was really necessary to make the project viable. If they'd gone straight from the approved 9-story version and sought to change it to the final 10-story one from this month I think it would have passed easily, flying under the radar as a minor revision with no one being stirred up enough to come out and oppose it in meaningful numbers

Also, the other deadline they were working against was needing it approved this summer to avoid having to comply with the city's new affordable housing requirements for the Short North. This is one of the last really large development sites in the neighborhood, and now whatever project is eventually proposed and built here will also be providing a sizeable affordable housing component. That's the kind of added community benefit that I think could have swayed people into accepting a trade off for a somewhat denser or larger project because it is giving something more tangible back to the area as a result. Meaningful investment in public art would also be an example of such a benefit, neither of which we saw materialize with this project

Actively seeking to avoid the affordable housing rules is really what's putting this on ice right now more than anything else. That appears to be a hard deadline they were up against, which is now forcing them to regroup

Finally, Kaufman still owns this land. They weren't just exploring an option on it, they've already purchased it and spent several million dollars. They'll come back and propose something else to build here, or sell it to another developer who will. I supported this project, but it's not the end of the world to lose it

Offline wpcc88

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #273 on: July 18, 2018, 01:25:15 PM »
Not shocked, this development did not fit the area where it was located and given it's surroundings.  If they would've scaled down to 5 stories and built something that was appropriate for the neighborhood it is in it would've been approved. But like my dad used to say they were "trying to fit 10lbs of sh*t in a 5lbs bag."  It didn't fit and I'm glad the neighborhood fought back as strong as they did.

First of all, a 9 story version was fully approved. So they could have just built that. There was almost no vocal opposition at the time. So this notion that something has to be 5 or less to "fit the neighborhood" is ridiculous

But, the real killer of this project I have to say has been Kaufman, not NIMBYs or the VVC. They're the ones who came back and opened a can of worms by seeking to alter the previous approval and revise the project to 14 stories. That brought people out of the woodwork, and they didn't really have any compelling story prepared to sell the benefits of a vastly larger project to the community

The fact that they ended up going back down to 10 in the latest version also demonstrates that they over-asked as far as what was really necessary to make the project viable. If they'd gone straight from the approved 9-story version and sought to change it to the final 10-story one from this month I think it would have passed easily, flying under the radar as a minor revision with no one being stirred up enough to come out and oppose it in meaningful numbers

Also, the other deadline they were working against was needing it approved this summer to avoid having to comply with the city's new affordable housing requirements for the Short North. This is one of the last really large development sites in the neighborhood, and now whatever project is eventually proposed and built here will also be providing a sizeable affordable housing component. That's the kind of added community benefit that I think could have swayed people into accepting a trade off for a somewhat denser or larger project because it is giving something more tangible back to the area as a result. Meaningful investment in public art would also be an example of such a benefit, neither of which we saw materialize with this project

Actively seeking to avoid the affordable housing rules is really what's putting this on ice right now more than anything else. That appears to be a hard deadline they were up against, which is now forcing them to regroup

Finally, Kaufman still owns this land. They weren't just exploring an option on it, they've already purchased it and spent several million dollars. They'll come back and propose something else to build here, or sell it to another developer who will. I supported this project, but it's not the end of the world to lose it

Basically what you just said is they got greedy, which is true.  However even at 9 stories the impact would've been felt.  This project at 3-4 stories on Price and up to 6 towards High would've gotten immediate approval and would've been appropriate.

*Side Note: LOL to the person who said that Kaufman uses high grade materials, look at 600 Goodale and their two projects downtown(the Commons is atrocious at best).  The project in Franklinton is by far their best and even it is questionable.

Offline casey

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #274 on: July 23, 2018, 08:13:13 PM »
So Kaufman may get another shot (or two) after all, if he wants them -

Columbus pushes back deadline to get in under existing tax-incentive rules

Columbus is pushing back the deadline by two months for developers to get projects grandfathered under the city’s current tax-incentive rules instead of meeting new ones the Columbus City Council is expected to approve next week.

Developers that receive project approval by Sept. 30 will be eligible for incentives under the city’s current rules. Those projects also will need foundation permits by Dec. 31 to be eligible.


http://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20180723/columbus-pushes-back-deadline-to-get-in-under-existing-tax-incentive-rules

Offline Toddguy

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #275 on: July 24, 2018, 09:19:19 AM »
^^ Hopefully they will comeback with something similar to the original proposal. I have to admit that I never liked the look of the tallest part of the last proposal-it looked too dark to me and too much like what they built at Columbus Commons.

Offline jonoh81

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #276 on: July 24, 2018, 08:39:37 PM »
Question because I wasn't sure... why couldn't Kaufman just push the issue and, if rejected by the VV commission, not just take the matter to the City of Columbus?  Don't they have the power to override any neighborhood commission?  Perhaps it's not standard practice, but I seem to remember this happening before on other projects.

Offline tlb919

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #277 on: July 25, 2018, 09:06:12 AM »
Question because I wasn't sure... why couldn't Kaufman just push the issue and, if rejected by the VV commission, not just take the matter to the City of Columbus?  Don't they have the power to override any neighborhood commission?  Perhaps it's not standard practice, but I seem to remember this happening before on other projects.

Yes, Kaufman could have/still can technically just surpass the commission and go straight to the city. The commission serves as a board of recommendation basically for the city, it handles and reviews projects for what equals a certificate of appropriateness and then the city will take over for final approval and permitting. While a developer can decide to surpass the commission it's kind of a faux pas if you plan on ever developing in that area again. While the city development board does have final say, they will rarely go against the will of the commissions and it's always better to stay on the good side of these commissions seeing as they serve the residents in the area that you're building within.

While I do believe the commissions have the best intentions, I feel that they have pushed back too much recently with projects. What happened with Kaufman shelving the project is what I always imagined would happen eventually and that would become the breaking point. Kaufman pushed and the commission pushed, and while Kaufman made concessions and was willing to work with them, that good faith was not necessarily reciprocated, leading to where we are now. An interesting walk down memory lane would show you that a similar situation took place with Parkside on Pearl.

What happens next? My guess is Kaufman waits until the 7th empty seat is filled and returns (hopefully with the 14 story version) to regain approval. We shall see.

Offline Columbo

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #278 on: August 05, 2018, 09:46:21 PM »
I wanted to look back at a cluster of new-construction projects located near what was formerly known as Doctors Hospital at Dennison & W. 3rd avenues.  Doctors Hospital was a major full-service hospital in Columbus that was located in Victorian Village probably before the area was known as Victorian Village.  As the need for hospital parking grew, some surrounding neighborhood blocks were turned into surface parking lots.

Eventually, through mergers and partnerships, Doctors Hospital became part of the OhioHealth system.  OhioHealth prioritized two other nearby hospitals - Grant located downtown and Riverside located further north - and closed Doctors as a full-service hospital.  Doctors was later purchased by Select Specialty Hospitals and now operates as a specialized care center for patients with acute or chronic respiratory disorders.  Since it is no longer a full-service facility, its parking needs are reduced.  This, combined with the increasing value of property in Victorian Village and the market for new residential units, has led to some of these surface parking lots being sold off for development projects.  Here is a recap of some in this area:

This is an aerial of the Dennison & W. 3rd area (aka The Dennison Curve) where three phases of a development (named Aston for the mid-block alley) was built across Dennison from the former Doctors Hospital:



Here is a view of that Dennison & W. 3rd area in 2009 when it was surface parking:



Here is that same area showing the first two phases of the residential development that replaced the surface lots.  To the left is the 59-unit Aston Place apartment building.  Across the mid-block alley is the first of two 10-unit Aston Row condos projects.  This one has entrances that face the mid-block alley:



This is 59-unit Aston Place apartment building as seen from W. 3rd Avenue as it curves into Dennison Avenue.  The building to the right is the former Doctors Hospital complex:



Back to Dennison Avenue at the mid-block alley for a 2015 view.  Again, to the left is the 59-unit Aston Place apartment building and to the right is the first of two 10-unit Aston Row condos projects.  To the right of that is a grassy lot that will be the second 10-unit Aston Row condo project in this area:



This is a 2017 view showing the second 10-unit Aston Row condo project on that formerly grassy lot:



This is a view from Dennison and Starr avenues.  This shows the second 10-unit Aston Row condo project that fronts onto Starr Avenue.  Note that the Starr Avenue portion was built in a traditional "Victorian" style to blend with the other historic Victorian style houses on Starr.  The Starr portion was also built to appear as single-family houses, instead of looking like a 10-unit building:



Here is a closer view of that "traditional Victorian" portion of the Aston projects facing Starr Avenue:
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Offline Columbo

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #279 on: August 05, 2018, 09:47:02 PM »
This is a 2009 view of the southwest corner of Dennison and 3rd/Starr avenues.  It is diagonally opposed those new Victorian-style condos in the previous post.  This was a surface parking lot for the hospital that stretched an entire block from 3rd/Starr to 2nd avenues:



This is the same view from 2017 showing one of two new residential developments built on the surface lot.  This is the Jerome Apartments, a 54-unit apartment building:



This is a 2017 view of the 2nd & Dennison corner of the former surface parking lot.  This is now the Truberry on Second Condos, a 12-unit condo building:


A before-and-after aerial from 2017 for these two projects was previously shown in this thread at https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,3470.msg847960.html#msg847960
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Offline Columbo

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #280 on: August 05, 2018, 09:47:31 PM »
Across the street from the Jerome Apartments and those new Victorian-style condos is an existing two-story office building with a third-story loft level:


It was some news from CU about a new business going into this building, actually inspired me to do the above residential development updates for this Doctors Hospital adjacent area.  The news was that Yoga On High was moved from its High Street location into this office building at 1020 Dennison Avenue:

https://www.columbusunderground.com/yoga-on-high-completes-move-now-open-on-dennison-yoga-near-me-na1

Yoga On High moving into this building isn't the biggest development news.  And it certainly isn't as transformative as those residential projects getting built on the nearby surface parking lots.  But Yoga On High moving from its High Street location onto a prominent neighboring street is another example of how the continuing Short North evolution is pushing some neighborhood businesses into surrounding areas, like Victorian Village.

In the case of Yoga On High, they made a very literal and visible move from High Street to Dennison Avenue on July 29th.  Below is a photo of over 120 past and present Yoga on High students and local yoga teachers came together for a last yoga class at the old High Street location and a procession to the new studio at 1020 Dennison Avenue:


CU has a more complete photo-tour of Yoga On High's new location (see the link in this post).  But here's a photo of that third-floor loft space that has windows facing Dennison being used for a yoga class:
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Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #281 on: August 06, 2018, 12:31:54 AM »
Great job!
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Offline Pablo

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #282 on: August 06, 2018, 06:55:54 AM »
Yeah, nice synopsis. I like these projects and the thoughtful increase in density. There are a few more surface lots in the area ripe for redevelopment.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #283 on: August 07, 2018, 11:30:46 AM »
So will they change their name to "Yoga on Dennison?"
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Offline casey

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #284 on: August 11, 2018, 10:41:16 AM »
^ Either that, or "Yoga Off High" could work

It is pretty amazing how this little corner has been totally redeveloped in so short a time. Only way I would have improved it would have been including a small storefront at the corner of the Jerome project

Offline cityscapes

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #285 on: September 17, 2018, 08:26:41 PM »





Hubbard Park Place update.
 

Offline casey

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #286 on: September 17, 2018, 09:54:40 PM »
Wood companies forever!  ;D

Borror never!  >:(

Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #287 on: September 17, 2018, 11:20:26 PM »
^That should be put on billboards everywhere.

Also, Hubbard looks great.
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